🚀 Want to turn your webinars into sales machines? You’re in the right place.

Jason Fladlien—one of the most successful webinar experts in the world—sat down with Kennedy to break down what’s working right now in the world of webinars.

From crafting irresistible offers to nailing the perfect pitch, Jason shares the insider secrets that have generated over a quarter billion dollars in webinar sales.

If you’ve ever wondered why some webinars flop while others create massive sales surges, keep listening.

Jason is about to pull back the curtain on what actually works today.

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Kennedy Kennedy

webinars webinars webinars webinars webinars are still one of the best ways of converting your email subscribers into sales whether you're selling a membership a mid ticket or a high ticket offer they're still one of the best ways of converting people but what's working right now how do you get people on there and actually what's the most important part of putting together a really successful webinar. Well, I'm not going to tell you that today. In fact, instead, I've asked my friend Jason Flalden, who is one of the top authorities and webinars in the world today, to join me on the show to spill the beans on exactly what's working right now. That's what we're doing on a today's show.

Kennedy Kennedy

Jason, man, hello. Thanks for being on the show.

Jason Fladlien

I am honored to be here. I'm glad that we can do this.

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah, me too. We've been trying to do this for a couple of weeks and just time zones. And now you now that you're in Europe, it's like, let's do this.

Jason Fladlien

I am so on board.

Kennedy Kennedy

So in case anybody doesn't know about you, in case they've been living on a rock and they don't know the stuff you've been doing, give us the quick, you know, five second, 10 second, the short version of what you've been doing, just so that people really truly understand the value and the backing that what you're about to share with us has actually got.

Jason Fladlien

Yeah, I've produced over a quarter billion, that's with a B, which sounds insane to say out loud, of results for through webinars. um And I've influenced the biggest names. I've trained Russell Brunson, Alex Fermosi, et cetera, et cetera, and big companies too, Webinar Jam and Zoom on webinar strategies.

Kennedy Kennedy

Mm hmm.

Jason Fladlien

I've been doing webinars for 16 years now, which makes me sound like I'm 65 years old. So if you're not watching this and only listening, I'm still only 41, but in internet years, I'm like 187. This has been my thing. I've been using webinars primarily strategically with email, by the way. So those are the one, two punch. An email list and a webinar are my go-to in almost every market for the best way to make money in the market.

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah, I love it. One of the things we often talk about on the show is you basically need, you you've got your you've got your email list and then you need to have a conversion mechanism. And one of the things that just keeps working, keeps reinventing itself and keeps getting renamed into another guys, you know, gets dressed up for the weekend is the webinar. It's it's called a challenge now. yeah it's it's It's webinars. You know, it's like, it's, it's whatever. It's a masterclass, is it? I think it's a webinar, but whatever you call it, it's, um it's a webinar. um Do you class like a paid event? Like, would you ever do like a, would you charge for a webinar? Like a sales webinar has an offer on the end?

Jason Fladlien

Sometimes, yeah. 90% of the time for most people, but the the thing that will give you the best results is a free webinar.

Kennedy Kennedy

Hmm.

Jason Fladlien

um You can get more complicated with it. There are some use cases where you can charge to show up. I remember when Grant Cardone, I met him many years ago and they just discovered webinars that I was like, okay, cool I'm glad you guys learned about them because I've been telling everybody to use them and they were selling initially.

Jason Fladlien

um They were charging for their webinars and I'm like, that's really cool because they're like, my conversion rate's insane.

Kennedy Kennedy

Bye.

Jason Fladlien

I'm like, it's not conversion that matters. It's dollars collected. I said, wait till you guys start doing free webinars. And then inevitably they did.

Kennedy Kennedy

Cheers.

Jason Fladlien

um For most cases, a free webinar is the best and here's why. um If you want to think what's the most persuasive way to sell somebody it show them what it's like to be your customer.

Jason Fladlien

And then ask them to be your customer most advertising is like give me money and then i'll show you what the values like a webinars like let me show you what the values like.

Kennedy Kennedy

ah but

Jason Fladlien

And then you can decide if you want more of the same value. And if you do it right, most people that are right fit for your offer will be like, yeah, it's more expensive not to buy the product. And that's why it's really cool. This is an audition where value leads. Most advertising is not valuable in itself.

Jason Fladlien

It's painful. It's annoying. It's distracting. And then it hopes to catch you in this upset state and somehow churn you into somebody who will give them money. ah But there's no value in the advertisement itself. So the webinar provides value. And that's what's really exciting. And you got to do that for free. And you got to you know you got to earn your right to the customer. And I think that's the best way to run a business is to earn the right for somebody to pay you money. And then you'll want as many people as possible to pay you money in that case.

Kennedy Kennedy

right. I love that um ah but that idea of like, they get to behave and experience what it's like, because one of the campaigns we often run will be like, we do like, ah we take an open day where they can come along to on the Q and&A or the group coaching sessions. And that's i experience to to simulate that experience of like, what it's like to be to be a customer or a member of something. And thinking of a webinar in that way, like, hey, this is a training, like the kind of training we would do if you're a paying customer.

Kennedy Kennedy

and It really is that um I remember speaking to rich chef from the other day and he was talking about actually it was a few weeks ago now and he was talking about this big change he's seeing between. We used to tease people, but now what we do is we're finding it more effective to give people a taste. So this idea of giving people a taste, not a tease anymore. And it's like, oh shit, webinars have been doing that for years.

Jason Fladlien

Yep. Yeah, and I've never been a fan of that model, by the way. And I know Rich, he's a friend of mine. ah the ah did the The philosophy before I got into the webinar business was useful but incomplete. Dress people up but don't give them a place to go. That kind of ideal.

Jason Fladlien

And it worked back then because information was scarce. This was before podcasts were everywhere on your phone and YouTube videos gave away more for free than paid courses used to charge, et cetera, et cetera. I never subscribed to that paradigm. My paradigm was always like, let me give you in the context you're in right now the very best I possibly can in the limited time I have because it's 60 minutes.

Kennedy Kennedy

Hmm.

Jason Fladlien

knowing full well that that's not sufficient to truly create a change for you. But let me give you a change today and then show you the way that we can continually have even better changes together in the future.

Jason Fladlien

And that was philosophically the way that I approached webinars at the very beginning. And it was harder. ah Still is harder um unless you got like a formula like I'm going to give as many secrets as I can here. But it was harder initially because it's really easy to give somebody steps two through seven and then sell them step one at the end because nothing else is valuable until they pay you money. And then they feel bad. They're like, I put all the time in so I should pay you money. It's a tricky way to sell somebody.

Jason Fladlien

ah My first webinars, by the way, went along these lines. This is how I'd open up the webinar. I'd say, I have two agendas here today. One agenda is to sell you something at the end of the webinar. um That is my hope. But my second agenda is to solve this very specific problem for you. But here's how I'm going to do it. If I can't solve this problem for you, don't buy what I sell at the end of the webinar.

Jason Fladlien

However, on the rare one in a million miracle chance that I might actually solve this problem for you before webinars end, then you owe it to yourself at least to seriously consider the offer I'm going to make at the end. Do we have an agreement? And everybody would say, yeah.

Jason Fladlien

If you truly can provide this value for me in 60 minutes, then I will more than happy give consideration to buying a product from you. And now we're both aligned. There's no issue here. They don't mind if I sell. We've set the agenda and the terms together on what is okay and how could they be sold. And that was the first webinars I ever did were in that framework.

Jason Fladlien

Because the idea was if you can give somebody a lot of value, then it's not a bad idea to show them how you can give them more value if it turns into a commercial relationship. And yeah, you're you're totally right. Rich is totally right. It's shifted. So information is no longer scarce. In fact, there's too much information. What people need is transformation, not information. And that's primarily what a webinar should do. Should transform somebody who's limited in some way to no longer be limited in that way.

Kennedy Kennedy

Oh, that's a big conversation. tick tick Basically taking off the shackles and saying, right, yeah yeah you're now free. I think that's really interesting. So what does that really look like in a practical sense?

Kennedy Kennedy

People are going to hear that philosophically, Jason. That sounds great.

Jason Fladlien

yeah Yeah, we work backwards.

Kennedy Kennedy

But like, how do we do it?

Jason Fladlien

So we start with the offer. And we say, what's something that would be more expensive for them not to buy than to buy? That's, that's what I always look at. Like you could walk from New York to l LA and that's quote unquote free, right?

Jason Fladlien

You don't have to buy a bus ticket. You don't have to buy a plane ticket. You don't have to pay for petrol. I say that petrol now that I'm over here.

Kennedy Kennedy

Oh, there you go.

Jason Fladlien

I'm European now.

Kennedy Kennedy

How European of you.

Jason Fladlien

ah Yeah, it's free, right? It only takes you forever and you'll die along the way of exhaustion and it's not even free because you'll have to buy new sneakers because you'll get holes in them, et cetera, et cetera.

Kennedy Kennedy

I was going to say your new shoes.

Jason Fladlien

Yeah.

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah.

Jason Fladlien

So it's like for most people buying a plane ticket is the cheapest option, quote unquote, even though it's the most expensive in terms of price, it's the best deal in terms of cost. um So primarily when I'm looking at an offer, here's a mathematical certainty in every single market, and it's this, 7% of the market spend 70% of its dollars. So when I'm designing an offer, I'm thinking who is that 7% of the market where price is not a primary concern,

Jason Fladlien

where the longer they go with the problem, the worse it gets and who are people already predisposed to invest in themselves to better themselves and to solve problems. And that's what I'm looking towards. So this is what's really funny. Cause people are like, yeah, a lot of people don't attend webinars. Very few people do. And they're totally right. Somebody who only has a mild issue with the problem is not going to put something on their calendar.

Jason Fladlien

is not going to make time out of their day and sit there for two hours and watch a slideshow. That's insane to expect most people for most things to ever want to make that type of commitment. They'll watch a six second video on TikTok. They'll watch a million of those low in low input, low effort. So that's a low output though too. So we don't make it for the masses. We make it for the few in the market that move the most money in our happiest and most grateful to invest. And that's how we create the offer. And so, yeah, a lot of people aren't going to show up for a webinar, but even by default, just doing a webinar is almost like a beacon that attracts that higher valued client because this is a client who will make time for themselves. This is a person who values education and a more informed consumer makes better decisions so we can help them make better decisions and then they will be more happy to make those decisions.

Jason Fladlien

So we create an offer along those lines. So a webinar doesn't make sense for a low ticket offer. It only makes sense for a mid ticket offer or a high ticket offer. If we're going to do a.

Kennedy Kennedy

Would you give us some definitions about what your definitions of those numbers are?

Jason Fladlien

Yeah, great question, right? So in most markets.

Kennedy Kennedy

It's going to be slightly different in in some markets like low ticket in buying real estate, it's going to be slightly different to buying ebooks.

Jason Fladlien

Yeah.

Jason Fladlien

Yeah, totally. So what we do is we look at the market. And the first the first thing I look at is what is the high end threshold of what people are willing to buy without getting on the phone one to one with somebody. ah Now again, because the world is complicated, we design webinars with a call to action at the end is to book a call and then we close them yada yada yada. But for 90% of my clients,

Jason Fladlien

It's a oneto- manyce presentation there's one There's many of you. I'm going to give you a URL at the end of the webinar, and hopefully as many of you on the webinar as possible end up buying. So nobody's talking to anybody individually. Nobody's selling their marketing, right? That's the difference between the two.

Jason Fladlien

so You look at the market and you say in this market, be it another webinar or be it a video sales letter or be it some sort of funnel where no personal interaction takes place, it's all marketing. What's the upper threshold of what consumers are willing to spend for a solution? And that's your high end, that's your price ceiling for that market. ah In business to business markets, it's typically $2,000. So consumers will spend up to $2,000 impersonally

Jason Fladlien

above and beyond that you either have to be incredibly skilled ah or you personalize it by touching somebody either in person or on the phone or message them etc etc right. um So then you say okay if that's the upper threshold then you say where are a lot of sellers because most people can't sell at the upper threshold in the market where are majority of sellers that are doing in personal selling at.

Jason Fladlien

And in business markets, it'll typically be $500 to $1,000. In commercial markets, it's different. Commercial markets, you're higher end on a front end. Somebody who's never done business with you before, you're probably going to be, your upper end is going to be like $500. And then your mid-ticket is going to be like $200.

Jason Fladlien

But in commercial markets, it's like upper end is 2,000, mid-ticket is 500 to 1,000. And then after that, it's really a math equation. you do and You do the numbers, and you crunch it, and you say, listen, if I'm selling a $17 product, I will not outconvert that on a webinar what I could do on a sales page, because the attrition will cost me. So by the time somebody registers for the webinar, shows up to the webinar, sees the offer made into the webinar, which typically is 45 to 60 minutes in,

Jason Fladlien

and then signs up and and buys it, you will lose nine out of your 10 buyers because they don't get to the offer in time. um Now, here's the logic though, that fails if you think, well, gee, won't I lose buyers who don't see the offer on my high ticket webinars?

Jason Fladlien

Yes, but you will lose far less of them. And I mean, how many buyers do you need on a $7 ebook to equal one buyer and a $2,000 purchase? The answer is a lot. My math isn't that great, but it's over 200, right? So I can try to make 200 plus conversions one on one. Good luck with that. Or I can make one sale. So the attrition rate is lower on these higher end buyers. And the economic value on them is tremendously higher. So there's this sweet spot. Okay, now here's the hack, by the way, if anybody's thinking about it.

Jason Fladlien

um The best people to ever sell to on a webinar are not cold people they're warm people and what's the definition of a warm lead it's somebody who knows you already exist um and ideally for me a hot lead is even preferable somebody who's paid you money before.

Jason Fladlien

ah So somebody says, Jason, how do I sell somebody who's cold on a webinar? My answer typically is make them warm first. And they say, what do you mean? You can sell them something that's cheap on the front end, $2, $3, $5, $10 or whatever. And then on the back of that, automatically invite them to a webinar.

Jason Fladlien

um so

Kennedy Kennedy

And are you seeing that as ah as a really, um, a really common thing that's working now in terms of like, we're sort of basically talking about the the, the, the attraction funnel now, how we're bringing new things in.

Jason Fladlien

Yeah.

Kennedy Kennedy

Are you thinking like a sort of self liquidating small low ticket offer?

Jason Fladlien

Yep.

Kennedy Kennedy

So run an ad to a low ticket offer and then invite people to a webinar.

Jason Fladlien

Yep.

Kennedy Kennedy

That's something that's working right now today.

Jason Fladlien

Yeah. I, it works like crazy. People can't seem to work it. It seems to be too complicated because those are two separate skills. So you got to be good at webinars and then you got to be good at the other thing too.

Jason Fladlien

And people typically can be good at one or the other. So true.

Kennedy Kennedy

Which is, I mean, and the advice there is you need two different coaches or you need two different programs. You need to find one person who's really good at SLO, self liquidating front end offers.

Kennedy Kennedy

That is a different person. Like I'm not going to call you up, dude.

Jason Fladlien

Yep.

Kennedy Kennedy

You'd be like, Hey, my SLO, what do you think? I mean, you could probably give me some advice if you've seen enough, but you know, you're not going to be like the guy.

Jason Fladlien

Yep.

Kennedy Kennedy

Whereas if I'm like, this webinar is kind of a bit sucky, you're going to be the guy.

Jason Fladlien

Yeah, and you know, I used to do the other stuff and then you brick by brick, you build a house. So I learned one skill, mastered it, you know, unconscious competence, and then added another skill on top of it.

Jason Fladlien

But if you don't have one of those two skills, you got to pick the one that makes the most sense for you in your market.

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah.

Jason Fladlien

So if you're somebody who's naturally feeling comfortable presenting, if you're an educator, by the way, people that love to coach and train make really great webinar presenters because it's one of the best mediums to do that with.

Kennedy Kennedy

Yes.

Jason Fladlien

then you should lean webinar first, right? um If not, webinar is going to be a harder skill to master. um You should lean the other way. Now, at the same time, a lot of my clients, I mean, forget like the super-duper famous people that I work with um in the super giant corporations. they They write the biggest checks and they make me the most money, ah but they're not the only clients that I work with.

Jason Fladlien

I work with ah lot ah clients all across the spectrum and a lot of my clients that are doing you know like a million, two million a year or close to that, um they're often in markets where there's a hole in the market. What I mean by that is nobody's doing any webinar that's halfway decent in that market.

Jason Fladlien

So just being there with a halfway decent webinar makes sense.

Kennedy Kennedy

Right.

Jason Fladlien

So in that thing, you can skip the line and you can go straight to that and the market will respond heavily for the same reason somebody dying of thirst will drink tap water just as quickly as they'll drink Voss water in a fancy bottle, right?

Kennedy Kennedy

yeah Yeah. And one of the things that's interesting, I want to just, just a little thing I've found works for for everyone listening and watching. I found if you run an SLO, like a self liquidating low ticket off, and just be clear what that is.

Kennedy Kennedy

That means you're running ads to something low cost, usually sub $50. I've seen some people do some 70 bucks as well. Right? Okay, fine. And then you're you're paying for that, and then you' you're using that as a way of liquidating some of the ad costs.

Kennedy Kennedy

People are buying something as they go from ads, never heard you before, buy something small, and then the next page saying, hey, register for the webinar. A way that I significantly, significantly, I'm talking about a 30% lift on registrants for the webinar on the back of that was to advertise the webinar as a bonus on the front-end page.

Jason Fladlien

holy Totally.

Kennedy Kennedy

And it killed because they feel like they've paid for it.

Jason Fladlien

Totally.

Kennedy Kennedy

Like I, you owe it to me to give me that thing. And I, and I've paid for that thing. So just to be clear on the front end page.

Jason Fladlien

Yeah.

Kennedy Kennedy

So we were running a lifetime SAS front end from ads. And one of the bonuses was this XYZ mark at masterclass. That was the webinar.

Kennedy Kennedy

On the next period, it's like, hey, you you know, access to the software is going to be emailed to you now. Secondly, the the webinar's coming up, makes you register here. It's, you know, the masterclass at you. And you just get such a huge, because what you've got is you've got expectation.

Kennedy Kennedy

I think one of the biggest reasons people fail to get people to take the next step in any funnel, any transaction, any business, is because there was no expectation for the next step in the first place. They thought the transaction was complete and over.

Jason Fladlien

Yep.

Jason Fladlien

Definitely. Yeah. A buyer in motion stays in motion. That's Fladland's laws of physics, one of them.

Kennedy Kennedy

Thanks.

Jason Fladlien

You know, and a buyer at rest stays at rest. So ah when somebody's moving in the right direction, the more we can help encourage them to continue to move in that direction, the better. So they they make a small investment in themselves.

Jason Fladlien

They create a new identity. So then asking them to make a larger investment in time and money just consistently makes sense. um So you know but for most people the way that they're gonna win with a webinar is somehow or another they're gonna get a reputation in the market or they're gonna get access to an audience. ah The thing that works the best for clients that are just getting started is I tell them go to somebody else who has a really good audience that you could perfectly serve and make a deal with them.

Jason Fladlien

Because now you don't have to collect everybody, you collect one person who has access to everybody in that market. And then you write a webinar specifically and only and exclusively designed for that audience. So you can speak directly to that audience through that lens and language of that person who they have a relationship with. And find somebody who hasn't done a webinar. So that's fertile soil, right? This is dry grass that needs watered.

Jason Fladlien

and you give the webinar to them and then you will get an audience through their audience and you will get a reputation because then if nothing else, you can go to the next person and say, we did so and so for this guy's audience. ah You have an audience like that. I would like to make a deal with you. The pitch, by the way, Kennedy, this is always the offer that I make is, let me do all the work and we'll split half the money. And they're like,

Jason Fladlien

You've got my attention, right? Tell me more, right? Like everybody loves that appeal. I do all the work and we split half the money. That will buy you at least 60 more seconds of the conversation. yeah So that's that's the great thing about this. is And this is what I like about webinars.

Jason Fladlien

It's like a Swiss Army knife. um Give me any scenario, and I could typically make a webinar work in it, whereas other things don't tend to have the similar flexibility. Like when I got in the business, product launch formula by Jeff Walker, who's a friend of mine and a client of mine, and a promoter of mine. He's promoted actually my my webinar training more than any other person. ah Jeff had the product launch formula, which was really awesome.

Jason Fladlien

My issue only with it was, because I got massive ADD, I couldn't create that much content and schedule and program it for that prolonged period of time. And back then, it was like a 21-day cycle. So I'm like, how do I 80-20 that, right? How do I get 80% of its results with 20% of its effort?

Jason Fladlien

And the webinar, to me, truncated all of that. I could walk them through the same process. It wouldn't be as big as a product launch, but it would be able to have impact similar to a product launch.

Jason Fladlien

And that's really where I started cooking with this, is I took that that attitude of the webinar. And so the webinar was very flexible, where product launch formula wasn't quite as flexible, had more impact, but wasn't as flexible.

Kennedy Kennedy

Sure.

Jason Fladlien

Jason Fladlien

Cause something can happen on Tuesday and I could um incorporate it on my webinar on Thursday and even program different emails on Wednesday to tap into this new thing that just occurred.

Jason Fladlien

And so this is why I love the webinar so much because it's super flexible. And oftentimes most of it stays the same. You just change the first couple of slides and you got a new thing that you can put in front of a new audience.

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah.

Kennedy Kennedy

I love it. I love it. Yeah, that flexibility. And so what we're really talking about is live webinars. We're talking about showing up to other people's audiences, someone who's got a community, ideally a paid community, because again, you're gonna have a higher quality person there, right? um um Hey, you've got a membership, you've got a program, you've got a course,

Kennedy Kennedy

kind of do, you know, I do all the work, we you we split the money, great offer for them, because again, you've got to sell that to them, like, that's a hell of an offer, like, and so they so they're showing so they're showing up to that. um And but we talked before we hit recorded, we were talking about the order in which to prioritize how to put together a successful webinar. And one of the things I've definitely, definitely fucked up over the years, but also seen other people screw up is

Jason Fladlien

Yep.

Kennedy Kennedy

what should the opening be? And what should I be teaching?

Jason Fladlien

Yep.

Kennedy Kennedy

And like, that's where I put all of my effort. But actually, you actually have to reverse engineer the whole thing. Do you want to just talk about your methodology, which I really love about the order to do these things in?

Jason Fladlien

Definitely. So we start with an offer. ah The analogy I give is this. You could be the greatest chef in the world, but if I give you rotten food to cook with, the meal's going to suck.

Kennedy Kennedy

Right.

Jason Fladlien

um On the flip side, if I give you the best ingredients in the world and you're just an average chef, it's going to be hard to screw that up. um And so we try to assemble the best ingredients before we cook. And the offer is your ingredients that you're assembling. If I can sell a $10 bill for a dollar, um pretty easy sell. But if I'm trying to sell a $100 bill ah for $1,000, nothing's going to make that work. And thank God, by the way, because that's a totally terrible deal.

Jason Fladlien

ah The wondrous thing about business that I love is where you can make somebody else a deal where they take advantage of you and it still works for you.

Jason Fladlien

The best offers you'll ever make, everybody feels almost bad buying it from you because they feel like they're ripping you off.

Kennedy Kennedy

Right.

Jason Fladlien

ah But you get the better end because it adds up over time.

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah.

Jason Fladlien

Like if you could only sell a book to one person, nobody would ever write a book in their life. I've wrote a book. It's miserable. It's painful. Root canals are more enjoyable than writing books.

Jason Fladlien

um and then you sell the whole thing for ten dollars right it's insanity it makes no sense except for the fact that if you can sell it to a million people then it becomes an incredibly good deal ah you can become a billionaire ah like ah you know Harry Potter style billionaires you can change the world with a book but if you But the book is a better deal for each individual who purchases it, if it's a good book, right?

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah.

Jason Fladlien

So that's the offers we're trying to make. How can I construct an offer where everybody feels like they're taking advantage of me, but at the end of the day, the math still works in my favor? And that's where we start. um So what I often will look at is what is the audience desperately wanting and needing that they're not getting and that they're using as an excuse to not better themselves?

Jason Fladlien

And that's that's ah that's where we start. We always start with the constraint. okay So here's here's the here's a and a lesson that once I learned it changed everything in my business. If I gave you the objective best process to solve your problem, but you had a low confidence in your ability to follow it,

Jason Fladlien

you will fail, okay? If I gave you the 17th best process, but you were 100% confident you could follow it, then you might at least succeed or have at least some success.

Kennedy Kennedy

Right.

Jason Fladlien

You probably will succeed though, right? um So we have to give... the offer to the audience in a way where they don't feel like they can mess it up.

Jason Fladlien

That's the trick and i this is counter to what everybody teaches about offers but you know the book hundred million dollars offers by ox or mosey is the greatest selling book on the subject um that was motivated by the training he took from me on how to create offers.

Jason Fladlien

I was training offers on just webinars, and then Alex generalized it. So it's now the best-selling book. But it comes rooted in the fundamental that I just described there. um If people have no longer any excuses to not buy, then 100% of them will buy.

Jason Fladlien

Otherwise, you can give them the the objective best of everything. And if they have any excuse to not buy, then they won't buy. um So that's what we're we're trying to eliminate it. So one of the things that I look for in an offer is, how can I do some or all of it for them?

Jason Fladlien

And then it ah eliminates the excuse, well, I can't do that. Good. You don't have to do that. We will do that for you. Right. And that's nice. Okay. ah Now we can't do their pushups for them. So that doesn't work for everything, but at least it starts making us think, well, I might not be able to do your pushups. Well, maybe I could show up to your house. Maybe I can pull you out of the bed. Maybe I can throw you on the floor and maybe I can scream in your ear and maybe I can do the pushups alongside you. Maybe I can put the clothes on for you so you can get out of bed and do the pushups. Right.

Jason Fladlien

So maybe we can automate some of it for them. right And if we can't do it for them, can we give them an interface that allows them to do it easier? So software and apps, that kind of stuff. Can we help them have them push buttons? how How can we have them reduce the thinking required in order to implement it? What are the ways in which we can reduce the friction to go from thinking to action? And these are the ingredients that we cook with when we create an offer. Now, there's some hacks here. There's a lot of hacks.

Jason Fladlien

um Question to you, what do people want most just in general? What is the thing that drives people the most to want and motivated to go out and get something?

Kennedy Kennedy

Um, well, it's going to be a a real spot, um, to go and do something it's to either to gain.

Jason Fladlien

It's a very open-ended question, right?

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah. Yeah. It's like, yeah. what do What do they want? Yeah. I mean, it's like, it's it's what it's going to be. It's going to be a, um, either something to gain or something to get away from it is the way I will be thinking of it.

Jason Fladlien

Perfect. Yep. And then if we drill on that, if they want a million dollars because they don't have any money, um they want what they currently don't have.

Kennedy Kennedy

Right.

Jason Fladlien

And that's what people want the most of. Nobody wants to be a member of ah of a country club that accepts them.

Kennedy Kennedy

yeah yeah

Jason Fladlien

They want to be a member of the one that won't let them in. ah So people want most what they can have. And if you study attraction, it's the same way. You don't want the woman that gives you the attention. You want the woman that doesn't give you the attention, right?

Jason Fladlien

ah not Not the healthiest thing, but market's going to market. That's just how markets function. ah So hopefully, individually, you're okay accepting everything you have and not needing from without.

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah,

Jason Fladlien

You can be full with N, but that's that's the Zen podcast that we'll do after this one, right?

Kennedy Kennedy

yeah.

Jason Fladlien

for from From a consumer standpoint, people want most what they can't have. They want the things that they can't afford. They want the things that they know they don't deserve. They want the things that they didn't earn. That's what a market wants, right? This is just us diagnosing a market. No judgment attached to this. This is just accurate thinking. And so I look at how can I give them some of the things that normally would be impossible for anybody else to offer to them.

Jason Fladlien

And that's where I start to cook with the ingredients when I make the offer now. Here's what it gets really fun um If I can sell them things that are not for sale and that sounds paradoxical But bonuses are the things that you can't buy this anywhere from anyone at any price however, you can get it for free when you buy this other thing and And I have found that there's no easier strategy to implement in somebody's business than the proper usage of bonuses in their offer.

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah, and that's one of the big things I know when I first learned your methodology that what really got me excited about it is I think a lot of people who are selling expertise, selling information, really struggle communicating their offer.

Jason Fladlien

True.

Kennedy Kennedy

And when I realized that your methodology really is about, yes, you state your offer, you do state it clearly, and you you make it exciting so it solves that problem and gets them, as you just said, to a place that they currently are not, to to ah to ah achieve something that they currently haven't achieved,

Kennedy Kennedy

But, and this was really interesting, in your book, which is called One to Many, which everyone should go onto Amazon and grab, by the way, it's it's it's ridiculous. We were just talking about beforehand, like, Jason almost, you said you felt like you gave a like you almost like undone yourself for some business because of, you know, literally laying a whole thing out.

Kennedy Kennedy

But I know when when you read that, you realize what Jason does.

Jason Fladlien

Thank you.

Kennedy Kennedy

What you do brilliantly is you you say, once you've laid down the offer and you've told them the price, that's when you start selling.

Jason Fladlien

Yep.

Kennedy Kennedy

That's when when the selling starts. And there's a whole bunch of psychological reasons for that. The first time somebody hears something, they want to say, no, get that out of the way soon so you can actually get past that and and handle some stuff.

Kennedy Kennedy

But I love the fact that actually you really sell your your your offer, your deal, through the bonuses and through a specific bunch of types of bonuses.

Kennedy Kennedy

And and and I really love that. um Tell us a bit more about that.

Jason Fladlien

Yeah, so the the best example of this, I wrote a book many years ago, a little ebook, ah Russell Brunson got it. And then he learned the strategy of making the bonus more valuable than the thing you sell.

Jason Fladlien

And prior to that, when he was selling ClickFunnels, they were giving away free trials. And it cost him like $150 to give away a free trial, right? Which is normal in the SaaS world.

Kennedy Kennedy

bru Yeah.

Jason Fladlien

So makes total sense.

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah.

Jason Fladlien

And then when he learned from me don't sell software this is one of the strategies i discovered so i was teaching this don't sell software give it away for free sell something else to make software the bonus and that's what they did to click on what they did at the time was the shifted the software to a free offer.

Jason Fladlien

ah You got a free bonus for 12 months originally at their highest tier.

Kennedy Kennedy

ah

Jason Fladlien

Their highest tier was $300, right? So 300 bucks per month for 12 months, $3,600. You got that for free when you bought $1,000 training program.

Jason Fladlien

And the training program was how to get traffic, right? So buy my traffic getting course because you need traffic for your funnels. Buy my course to learn all the ways you can drive traffic and then get my software for funnels for free.

Jason Fladlien

And that revolutionized the business.

Kennedy Kennedy

Hmm.

Jason Fladlien

I don't know what the business is worth now. Hundreds of millions of dollars um and so on and so forth, right?

Kennedy Kennedy

Awesome.

Jason Fladlien

But ah but the the the genius of this micro example, and there's a lot of macro applications, was this. Prior to that, Russell would get all sorts of objections. Does the software work on a Mac? Does it work on a PC?

Jason Fladlien

How many times can I use the software? There were three levels of the software. Should I choose the first level, the second level, the third level? Yada, yada, yada, right? But when it's like, hey, it's free, nobody cares anymore about the minutia, right? And then you eliminate the issue of, Hey, listen, which level should I pick? We're just going to give you the best level and you got 12 months to use it. And then after 12 months, you can decide if you want to keep it and then which level that you want. So it becomes a selling advantage. And then in this particular case, it becomes a price anchor to who wouldn't pay a thousand dollars to get $3,600 of retail value. Like why?

Jason Fladlien

It doesn't make sense. Why would I give you more in retail price than what I'm charging you for free? So I'm giving you this for free. That's 3.6 times as much. And then later they tested it. They found they could do six months instead of 12 months and they ironed it out and they optimized the offer even further.

Jason Fladlien

but the fundamental premise shifted from, I'm not focusing on what the product costs anymore, which is what they're paying for. I'm focusing on all the things I get additionally in value, which is the bonuses. And so people are not looking at price, they're looking at value. And that changes the game completely. Now here's the biggest secret of all. Every consumer makes a decision on value based on what they can compare it to, okay?

Jason Fladlien

So they say every other offer I've seen generally looks like this. It walks the same, it talks the same, it quacks like a duck, et cetera, et cetera, right? So they're all relatively the same amount of value. So nothing sticks out. They're all good offers, but nobody buys a good offer. They're like, man, whatever, right? And then this new offer comes along and they have nothing to compare it to. It sticks out. It's different.

Jason Fladlien

because its bonuses are more valuable than everybody else's stuff that they're charging for. And since they can't compare it to something else, they can only compare it to how well you can describe its value. And that gives you a whole new leverage. It gives you a whole new advantage when it comes to making your offer. And so that's the big deal, um is we want to put this stuff in bonuses that people can't compare it to. So one of the tricks that I use is what I call multiple modalities.

Jason Fladlien

I want a bonus package that has a little done for you in it here, a little software in it here, a little group coaching in it here, a little whatever here. And and these are different deliverables. It's not when you buy my training program, you get 16 other training programs, that's more of the same. It's like, hey, when you eat this spaghetti, I'm going to give you 16 more plates of spaghetti. No, it's like,

Jason Fladlien

When you have the spaghetti, we're gonna bring the wine out, we're gonna bring the dessert out, we're gonna put you at a table in the corner of the restaurant that's beautiful and it's well lit, it's gonna have roses on it, etc, etc, right? So we want to give a little of every other type of offer in our offer if possible. And now people are like, I can't compare that to anything.

Jason Fladlien

So then they only can compare it to the value that you've established, which is relatively actually easy. Most people can do that. What they don't know how to do is stick out. What they don't know how to do is get the advantages that I'm describing here, but you do that by shifting the focus to the bonus. So here's how everybody sells on a webinar until they study me. um They show you everything they got. Here's it all. And then they say, here's what it costs. I do it almost completely opposite. I show you the bare minimum.

Jason Fladlien

that I think will get the hottest buyers to buy. So the ones that would say yes with the least amount of value stacking. And then I make my offer. So here's what it is, here's what it does, here's how it's delivered and then the price and then go sign up. So that takes like three minutes, maybe five. So I'm selling an offer and I'm making my first pitch from the moment I introduced the offer to the first call to action in three to five minutes.

Jason Fladlien

And then I say, and when you sign up, you'll also get bonus one, bonus two, bonus three, bonus four, bonus five, and that will take 10 to 15 minutes. So core offer takes three to five minutes, bonuses take 10 to 15 minutes. It's five times longer the focus on what they get for free.

Jason Fladlien

than what they invest and pay for. And this allows us to start with a no and end with a yes. And that's the default position of all the market. You said this earlier, right? Most people are just going to say no.

Jason Fladlien

No is the easiest thing in the world to say.

Kennedy Kennedy

Mm hmm.

Jason Fladlien

um So we get them to say no. ah No is short for no. giving what I understand now. That's for most people, no means no based on how I understand it currently. It's not a finite no, it's not like I'm no and I will never change. It's I'm gonna say no, because I'm used to saying no.

Jason Fladlien

but I'm still gonna stay on the webinar. And the stats don't lie. You can look at it. Yeah, some people will bounce out right away just because they wanna see what you're doing and then they're gone. But a majority of people will not buy and still stay on your webinar.

Jason Fladlien

And so they start at no, and then you say, and you get this. And then a few of them say yes. And then you say, and you get this. And then a few of more of them say yes. And then you say, and you get this. And they start to say, okay, this is ridiculous.

Kennedy Kennedy

Hmm.

Jason Fladlien

This is nothing like I've ever seen before. And that's one of the easiest strategies that everybody can implement.

Kennedy Kennedy

Hmm.

Jason Fladlien

Put the price up front. Everybody puts the price at the end. Put it up front and then end on value. Don't end on price. And that's fundamentally the biggest contribution i've I've probably made in webinars is shifting how the offer is revealed.

Jason Fladlien

um Otherwise, I don't care how good your thing is. If it takes 15 minutes to get through it all, People are not going to feel that excited. They can't sustain excitement for 15 minutes straight. um So it just doesn't make any sense.

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah, no, it's, it's really good. And having those timings in there is like, is really, really valuable. And I think one of the things you talked about there was like not being able to compare it to other things. I think another way of sort of framing that is like they can, if they can compare it, the thing that comparing it to is high price or is that value.

Jason Fladlien

Yeah, true.

Kennedy Kennedy

So in, let's go back to the ClickFunnels example, a funnel builder, if people were using. what was the one everybody used to use, Instapage, remember that, right?

Jason Fladlien

Mm hmm.

Kennedy Kennedy

People were using that, they'd go, oh yeah, that is 100, 200, 300 a month, and I'm getting it for free.

Jason Fladlien

Free.

Kennedy Kennedy

So when they're comparing it, it's it's legitimized value, but not from you putting the number on the screen.

Jason Fladlien

Yeah.

Kennedy Kennedy

Like you have to legitimize the value based on true existing belief of the market.

Jason Fladlien

Yeah. I mean, and this is why giving away books for free is a terrible bonus because a book is 10 to 20 bucks. It has a price that people associate to it.

Kennedy Kennedy

Right.

Jason Fladlien

Now, if you take that same book, you print it on eight and a half by 11 paper. Uh, or, you know, over here in Europe, we have a little different size of paper now that you can print it on. It doesn't matter though. And then you make it kind of like an underground study guide and it's the same material.

Jason Fladlien

Nobody has a frame of reference on that. And so they can't put you in a price box. And to your point, we want to associate it to the highest value if we make comparisons at all. So part of this is the components are as highly valued position as possible. And then the totality of those components, nobody's ever seen before. So they can compare only the pieces to high value things and they can compare it nothing from the totality of the offer to anything else. And that more than anything, we'll get somebody to buy. Now.

Jason Fladlien

hopefully what you deliver is unbelievably great.

Kennedy Kennedy

i mean We're going to make the assumption, we're going to have to receive that.

Jason Fladlien

It doesn't have to be. Yeah, it doesn't have to be in order for this to work. However, it would be colossally stupid for you not to make it amazing because the best sales pitch in the world is in a webinar.

Jason Fladlien

It's a happy customer. and So we we sell the customer to make them happy. And then that happy customer comes back and buys more and refers more to us and makes partnerships with us, etc, etc. They will open more doors for you than you ever could open on your own.

Jason Fladlien

But to make the decision to buy from you initially has to be purely on perceptive value. And these are the things that stack the perceptive value in the favor of you as a webinar presenter.

Kennedy Kennedy

I have two more questions that I really would love to dig into.

Jason Fladlien

Yeah.

Kennedy Kennedy

and The first is, um Live webinars automated webinars. I mean, I know you're a huge fan of live.

Kennedy Kennedy

I know you've delivered a lot of live. You've written, designed and produced ah a shit ton of live that have been effective.

Jason Fladlien

now Too many.

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah, yeah, yeah. um That's what you got. I mean, that's your own fault for being good at this, man. i mean You want to get yourself to blame, you know? and know But if you don't like it, stop being shit.

Jason Fladlien

True.

Kennedy Kennedy

I mean, it reminds me of like, when I was a kid, my mum asked me to make me a cup of make her a cup of coffee. And I thought, I never want to make my mum a cup of coffee again. I was probably like 14. It was like a little, it was a dickhead of a child, right? And I was, and she was like, make me a coffee.

Kennedy Kennedy

I'm like, okay. So I may i purposely made her the shittest cup of coffee you've ever had. She has never asked me to make a cup of coffee again.

Jason Fladlien

Never asked again, yeah.

Kennedy Kennedy

never, you know, you got to remember you you you you have to sleep in the bed you make. um So be careful what you're good at is is the message folks.

Jason Fladlien

true yeah yeah i mean they work fantastic under the right conditions so

Kennedy Kennedy

ah The um yeah, but automated webinars. um Working just completely dead from what you're seeing. Like where are you at? um I hear everybody obviously has their opinion. What are you saying?

Jason Fladlien

Kennedy Kennedy

Yes.

Jason Fladlien

um So that that's how I do them. I have clients who would die before they would get in front of a live audience, but you know they want to sell the most amount of their products, so they do automated webinars.

Kennedy Kennedy

Yep.

Jason Fladlien

In some instances, for those markets, automated webinars will work better than live just because of the makeup of the markets. And for other clients, it's They personally will sacrifice some of the objective best practice, because at least some of what you can do is better than none of what you can't do. um So automated webinars work fantastically. Well, they're slightly different in the approach of how I design them versus how I design live webinars.

Kennedy Kennedy

Mm.

Jason Fladlien

because we don't have interactivity on an automated webinar like we do live. So we have to make the offer earlier. um People will just generally not stay as long on automated webinars as they will a live webinar.

Jason Fladlien

um Higher ticket items are harder to sell an item on automated webinars, so we generally make $300 offers on webinars because we now make it up because we have less attrition because we can have more automated webinars run than we can have live webinars.

Jason Fladlien

so So this dichotomy of it either works or it doesn't work or this compared to that one of them works and one of them fails is is a really interesting way to navigate life um because it's completely devoid of reality. Automated webinars are doing fantastic under the right condition.

Jason Fladlien

Live webinars are doing fantastic under the lie right conditions. The advice I give people just starting, they say which one I should do. I said the one that gets done easiest. So whatever one you can put in public the fastest and put in front of an audience is the one you should do first. If that's automated, fantastic. If it's live,

Jason Fladlien

Great. If you do it, you'll probably end up doing both anyway. So it doesn't really matter which one you start at. um And I have clients that do very well in both, and we've designed webinars that have done very well in both.

Jason Fladlien

I have an automated webinar that's ran for 14 years straight. The only thing we had to change was the the product. We had to update it every couple of years.

Kennedy Kennedy

Right.

Jason Fladlien

um You know, so it's like, hey, listen, just because I love pizza doesn't mean I can't also like other foods.

Kennedy Kennedy

Right. Yeah, totally, totally. And for the automated thing, um are you seeing like, getting people to schedule into the future, like is working or when you're doing automated, are you saying hey, only do just in time?

Kennedy Kennedy

Are you finding there's like a sort of a pattern there?

Jason Fladlien

I'm like a doctor. The answer is always it depends, right? So in certain markets, especially when you're doing cold paid advertising, you want to get them right away.

Kennedy Kennedy

Right, right.

Jason Fladlien

So in general, for for those markets, it's an on demand webinar. So they register and immediately they get put into a webinar because easy come, easy you go. Somebody's scrolling through a feed and they don't know who you are and you're one of a million distractions, you got to catch a sketch can.

Jason Fladlien

um In other markets like say you're doing organic social and you say hey DM me and then I'll send you an invitation to the class right um then those are better if they're scheduled in advance and there's a little bit of wait time in them and and here's why because You've got to think in terms of continuity.

Jason Fladlien

If I'm on social media and I DM you and it just so happens that it's live immediately when I send it to you, it breaks the continuity. yeah It's hard for you. Consciously, the consumer won't understand that.

Jason Fladlien

But subconsciously, they'll say something doesn't feel quite right here.

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah.

Jason Fladlien

So it's better to have like a webinar every Monday and every Thursday that you run. And then the longest anybody's gone away is if they register on Thursday after the webinar is over with, then they come Monday. And then you can automate it from that ah perspective. Now, don't think that doesn't mean you work less. In automated situations, you typically have to work more on what happens before and after the webinar. So you have more reminders that go out, and you have more multi-channel marketing, and you do more retargeting, and you do all this other stuff that you don't have the capacity to do with a live webinar because you're working so hard at the live aspect of it. However, because it's live, you will get more people typically to convert. So it's a give and it's a take scenario. But again, to go back to my point,

Jason Fladlien

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah, they're really good. And one of the things I know I've struggled with is at the point where you do the pitch, I feel like I'm like, am I talking too fast?

Kennedy Kennedy

What is about my tone? I feel like a bit of a dick, like, because I've gone from teaching Kennedy to now I want to ask, I'm going to tell you how valuable this thing is and be excited about it.

Jason Fladlien

Yeah. Yep.

Kennedy Kennedy

You've coached so many people who I'm sure have the same thing, that change of tone.

Jason Fladlien

yeahp

Jason Fladlien

Oh, yeah.

Kennedy Kennedy

What's your advice for that moment?

Jason Fladlien

Yeah, it's the best advice I can give based on the results I've seen from this advice is just acknowledge it. Tell the audience, okay, I'm not about to do something now that makes me uncomfortable. I went from teaching you, which I'm super comfortable in and now I'm going to sell you and I'm very uncomfortable. So if I seem weird, like an alien's taken over my body, if I'm shaky, if I'm scared, it's because I'm incredibly nervous right now.

Jason Fladlien

However, despite this, I'm going to attempt to sell you anyway because I believe if you're the right person, it's going to be the best thing you could ever buy. So forgive me as I sell you right now and be kind to me if I screw up, but I'm going to try to make you the best offer I ever can. Is that okay with you? And I wish I could use that close because I can't because I don't have that feeling, right? But if if we just acknowledge it,

Jason Fladlien

It's actually a huge advantage, but most people think this. I gotta be this super sharp presenter and I gotta like be this authority figure. And they think in presentation, I think in conversation. And that's what we want to really utilize the webinar for is if.

Jason Fladlien

Even if it's not an actual conversation, it has to feel like it could be a conversation. And so the easiest thing to do is just let people know what's going on. um You know, now we teach transitions in the book that you can use word for word where, hey, I have two choices. I can leave you on your own right now and hope and pray that you take this and use it. Or I can have an active role in your success, which would mean that I would have to make you an offer that I can participate in your future together with you with.

Jason Fladlien

um I chose the second option because I felt it was better to give you the choice to either do it on your own or do it with me than to just not give you the choice and have you do it on your own. And people were like, okay, that makes sense. you know But in our minds, we think as um offers go that we're, it's bad to make an offer and people won't like to hear offers. and um There's something wrong and we're doing an offer because we want to make money but we're conflicted because we know it's annoying, right? And then that's what we bring in when we present. ah When the reality is if it's the very best thing for the person, um it is such a noble act to make an offer to that person.

Kennedy Kennedy

Hmm. Hmm. Yeah, it is. It really, really is. One of the things I've done, and I'm still in testing with this is I even say, um, Hey, like I've given you all this stuff. I have put a really special offer for you together, but I'd love to tell you about, but if you're like, I never want to hear about this offer ever, it's great.

Kennedy Kennedy

But if you want to leave that fine, but if you think you might want to hear what the offer is, so I'm only getting them to commit to hearing the offer, not buying the offer.

Jason Fladlien

Yeah.

Jason Fladlien

100%. That's a solid strategy. some you know It's fun. that it's it's Make it enjoyable for everybody and you'll find that it works really good. You're going to say, I'm about to do the worst thing ever in the history of the world. If we had to write the top 10 worst acts that a human being could ever make, I'm going to put this at number one.

Jason Fladlien

I'm going to sell you something right now. Oh, I know, right? Like, oh, this is terrible. If you can bring some brevity and and lightheartedness to the situation, then people are like, okay, it's not a big deal.

Jason Fladlien

But otherwise, everybody takes this way too serious. Whether you sell them or not, in 10 years, nobody's going to remember any damn thing.

Kennedy Kennedy

That's

Jason Fladlien

It's not that big a deal.

Kennedy Kennedy

true.

Jason Fladlien

What we're trying to do here is find ways to connect with our audiences. And if the first way doesn't work, we try the second way. If the second way doesn't work, we try the third way. But nobody faults the person who is sincere and is genuinely out there trying to improve the marketplace.

Jason Fladlien

That person is destined to win eventually. And again, this is why I love a webinar. Some of my best webinars, I did them on Thursday and they struck out. I saw the feedback from the audience. I changed the webinar, came back Monday and say, hey, I screwed up.

Jason Fladlien

I missed the tone on this. I spent too more too much time on X that you didn't care about, too little time on Y, which I now realize is what you truly care about. And I miscommunicated the offer and its value. I spoke too much feature, too little benefit, um which frustrates me because I know I missed you and I think I could have helped you. Will you give me a second chance? Come to this new webinar that I adjusted based on the last one. Sometimes those are the best attended webinars and the most responsive webinars that you could ever have is when scenarios like that happen because As long as the intention is communicated, then people will be incredibly forgiving and they will give you second, third, fourth, and fifth chances.

Kennedy Kennedy

Right.

Jason Fladlien

And and you know if somebody buys up to the fifth time or the first time, the bank doesn't tax you extra on that money. You still get the same amount.

Kennedy Kennedy

Right. And I would love before we go to hear your methodologies or your thinking frameworks around identifying, you know, you get to the end of a webinar and most people I think, especially if they're newer to webinars, like they think the metric is,

Kennedy Kennedy

How many people registered? How many people showed up? How many people were there at the pitch when I started making the offer and how many people bought? But how do you diagnose? You seem very aware of like, oh, I didn't spend enough time on this and I didn't really communicate that right. what is your How do you think through that and go, where's the opportunity for improvement in this webinar?

Jason Fladlien

That's a great question. um Everything you do that is worth doing should be post mortem. So post mortem means so that you dissect the dead body after it died, right? ah So we look back at it when it's done and say, what do we do right? What could be improved and what do we learn? Those are the three questions that you ask in a post mortem. And that's where you start to troubleshoot.

Jason Fladlien

And what happens is over time, you refine your intuition. And so you say, we think this is where we could improve. So we improve it, and then we try it again. And then we're usually not right.

Jason Fladlien

But we learned something. And then we say, OK, now that we tried it this way, what did we learn?

Kennedy Kennedy

Right.

Jason Fladlien

And let's try it again. And people think this takes a long time. It really doesn't. Three or four or five adjustments can be the difference between a million dollar webinar and one that does almost nothing. um I had a client this week, um we've been doing coaching sessions and she's in this weird market, like the weirdest, most obscure market you could ever imagine, which is frustrating for me because when I work with clients, one of the biggest problems they have in their content of their webinars are all feature no benefit.

Kennedy Kennedy

Mm.

Jason Fladlien

um And so I can usually, because I've been in so many markets, just give them the benefits. Be like, here's the benefit you should say related to this feature. But she's in a niche I can't understand. So I couldn't give her the literal benefits. I could only teach her how to go find the benefits, which is still great. ah And that's what I was working on with her. And we've done three sessions now. So the first session, she she implemented what I taught and saw a little bit of an improvement.

Jason Fladlien

um And it was actually substantial, especially when we analyze it, because she was going to a second level audience, so not the hottest audience anymore, the second hottest audience. um And the conversion rate improved, even though it was a lesser qualified audience. And here was the metric that she missed that I saw before payment plans versus full pays were split. And the second offer, it was all full pays.

Jason Fladlien

So I'm like, ooh. So in conversion went up 1.7% on a lesser audience, and all of them were full-paced. So we're like, I'm like this is like, this is an actual exponential increase that looks like it's ah barely an incremental increase.

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah, so cash collected was higher.

Jason Fladlien

So I say, we're on the right track. But the benefits were still not dialed in yet. So she did some stuff to improve them, but they were still lacking. So we went through the slides again, and I gave her some more benefits.

Jason Fladlien

So she went back and she implemented again, saw a slight additional improvement. And then I gave her, we just did a call yesterday, I gave her yet another strategy on how to improve the benefits further. So we're not even changing anything else at this point, not really. We are just adding more benefits of ah in the webinar.

Jason Fladlien

to help people understand um what the outcomes could be. And and i've only a lot of this you can't see when you're doing it. You can't read the label when you're in the jar, right?

Kennedy Kennedy

Right.

Jason Fladlien

So you do the webinar, you take a step back, and you're more objective with it. Now, if you can get a experts at a third party, eyes on it, even better. um But we just try to pick one thing that we know is not risky to change.

Jason Fladlien

Worst case scenario, it stays the same.

Kennedy Kennedy

Right.

Jason Fladlien

But what are easy things that we can improve upon? And then over time, you'll you'll work on it. Now, here's where for most people when they're starting, the answer will be incredibly obvious, um especially if you do live webinars, which is why I like live webinars.

Jason Fladlien

I got to the offer on some of these webinars. And they're like, Jason, I just don't understand what you're saying. Like, I just don't get it. You've lost me. And I go, thank you for your feedback.

Kennedy Kennedy

Right.

Jason Fladlien

I have screwed up. I got to fix this. um Sometimes we'll get people that will have objections that keep coming up that I thought shouldn't be objections. And I'll realize I'm the one who created it the objection.

Kennedy Kennedy

Wow. Wow.

Jason Fladlien

So it's like, go back to the webinar, take this thing out because it ain't helping you. It's only hurting you. ah it So for most people at first, the the improvements will be very obvious to them because the audience will give them the feedback.

Jason Fladlien

But after a while, you just keep working at it. You just keep finding different ways that you can improve it. It's crazy because ah a few small increases when you multiply them have an exponential effect, but everybody's looking for that one thing. If we just tweak this one thing, we'll get this result. And that barely works. It only works enough so people keep thinking that it works, but it works no more than that.

Kennedy Kennedy

And I guess it only it's only gonna have a really big impact if you've completely screwed one element up. You're just like, oh, you but didn't even do that. Like there has to be a big hole in it um for for it for you to fill that hole, I guess.

Jason Fladlien

Yeah.

Jason Fladlien

Yeah, and then the bottom line is this. Webinars the way I teach are there's no risk involved. The worst case scenario is people like you more when the webinar is over with. That is not a terrible fate for anyone.

Jason Fladlien

Yeah, maybe they didn't buy from you today, but they left better than they started. And I don't think you could ever fail if you continue to put value out in the marketplace.

Kennedy Kennedy

Mm.

Jason Fladlien

I get that you have bills to pay. But a long term, if you continually find ways to add value to the marketplace, it's going to be very hard to fail. And that's what I love about webinars. And then any feedback that you get, you can incorporate, great. And then if it's making you money, and fantastic. You can keep adding to it. But the hardest thing is, I mean, for most people, the first webinar they're ever going to do, it's not going to fail or succeed. It's just going to be ignored.

Jason Fladlien

It's just the fate of most webinars when people are starting out. So get ignored today so you can be seen tomorrow instead of being worried about never starting in the first place.

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And your first webinars likely going to be your smallest one. And yeah I always say, you better if you're learning guitar, you don't want your first, your first gig to be on the stage at Wembley Stadium, you want to be your first guitar gig to be in the back room with some shitty pub where there's like some friends and family there.

Jason Fladlien

Yep.

Jason Fladlien

Yep.

Kennedy Kennedy

And that's the great news about sending your first emails doing your first webinar doing your first of anything is, yeah, get you know, go out and be shit at it in front of a small number of people.

Jason Fladlien

True, yeah. Start at the bottom, then there's no way you can get worse.

Kennedy Kennedy

I think good news is next time will be better, I think, probably. Awesome. This has been a great conversation. Thank you so much for sharing all this sort of this this amazing insights. It's been absolutely brilliant. um Is there anything that we left open that you want to make sure we cover off? I think we i think we did a pretty good job.

Jason Fladlien

I think we covered as much as we can today. Anything else if you open up, I'll get too deep and too fast.

Kennedy Kennedy

yeah ah Awesome. If people, which they will want to now, after we've talked about all this stuff, they want to connect with you, find out more about you, um find out more about how you can help them with webinars and learn from you. Where should they be going? I'm going to first of all say, before you even open your mouth, go check out that book. I really, really genuinely loved it. It's called One to Many ah by Jason Flavin. Go to Amazon, you'll find it. It's a really good book that will take you through one of Jason's methodologies and frameworks.

Kennedy Kennedy

for these kind of webinars that we're talking about today.

Jason Fladlien

Yep. And then if you can follow me on Instagram, I'd be super happy. Just started social media. I'm new to it. So be kind to me. and What do we need?

Kennedy Kennedy

You sound like an old man again, dude. you I've just found myself a phone.

Jason Fladlien

I still don't understand how it works yet, but I'm putting content out there. It's pretty good content. Yeah.

Kennedy Kennedy

Yeah, what's your ah what's your Instagram handle?

Jason Fladlien

Just add Jason Plattman.

Kennedy Kennedy

Love it. Cool. So yeah, Jason, again, all the links and stuff will be in the show notes as ever, folks. ah Jason, thank you so much man for hanging out and sharing all this stuff. I really appreciate you. It's great to see you. yeah All right, folks, we'll be back next week.

Jason Fladlien

My pleasure.

Kennedy Kennedy

After you've hit ah hit up all of Jason's socials and his book, make sure you hit subscribe on your podcast player. We're back next week with another episode as ever. And yeah, we'll see you then.

Kennedy Kennedy

Cheers.