Jack Hopkins (aka Jack Hoppy) is a bartender, filmmaker, and musician from Columbus, Ohio. We talk about growing up small and non-athletic in the suburbs, learning about life from movies, getting love-bombed by a Christian youth group, successfully avoiding sex for most of high school, a mushroom trip that spiraled into months of nihilism and two suicide attempts, and the offhand comment from a stranger at 3 a.m. in a New York City pizza shop that pulled him out of it. Also: ketamine and a box of childhood action figures, why Columbus isn’t real, and why humping the Empire State Building is not okay.

Content warning: This episode includes extensive talk about sex and drugs, and quite a bit of swearing, so probably don't listen with your kids.

You can and should watch Jack's films, listen to his music, and look at some of his art here: https://linktr.ee/Jackhoppy

Please show some support for the podcast and get access to some extra content by subscribing to the Patreon page: http://www.patreon.com/onefjef

Instagram: @onefjefpod

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/onefjefpod

TikTok: @onefjefpodcast

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@onefjef

Email: onefjefpod@gmail.com

You can also call the podcast and leave a voicemail at 1-669-241-5882 and I will probably play it on the air.

Thank you for listening, please do it again, but don't scare the kids.

Onefjef is produced, edited & hosted by Jef Taylor.

I'm so sick of it, what we're

doing here.

I mean, I'm enjoying speaking,

but I don't want to hear it.

He literally dismisses the

podcast as he speaks on one.

We've entered the, yeah.

Somebody would like this shit.

This is episode 41 of onefjef.

41 is the number just past the

ordeal.

Across mystical traditions, 40

is the sacred threshold,

the flood, the desert, the fast

,

which makes 41 the first breath

on the other side.

The I Ching's 41st hexagram,

Sun, captures this perfectly.

Voluntary sacrifice, giving

something up as an act of trust

rather than loss.

In Pythagorean terms, the

four and the one are intention.

Structure versus the solitary

will.

The person who has built

something solid,

but hasn't yet made peace with

being alone inside it.

Hello, my friends.

Hello once again.

How about this?

We're back on a regular

schedule, huh?

Huh?

Anybody?

I'm proud of myself.

I hope that you're proud of me

too.

I said once I am in Mexico City

and settled down a bit,

we will get back to a regular

schedule for this podcast.

And here we are.

So, go me.

Go me.

And as also promised, I am

releasing an interview this

week.

And that interview is with Jack

Hopkins.

Jack Hopkins, also known as

Jack Hoppy, is a filmmaker,

writer, musician and visual

artist.

He co-wrote and acted in the

short film According to Plan

and releases self-produced

music,

including Squalor and Couch

Surfing.

His visual art and broader work

reflected DIY self-direct

approach focused on

experimentation and personal

expression.

I recorded this conversation

almost a year ago, before I

even started making this

podcast.

I used a few clips of it in the

first episode, but I didn't

release the entire thing

because, as you'll hear,

Jack and I got progressively

more intoxicated as the

interview progressed.

And we ended up recording for

almost three hours, much of

which was fairly incoherent.

But I live in Mexico City now,

and last week I went back and

listened to what we'd recorded.

And I discovered that it was

actually more entertaining and

less incoherent than I

remembered.

And I cut it down to an hour,

which helped.

I do need to include a

disclaimer, though.

If this episode had a rating,

it would be a solid R.

There's quite a bit of swearing

and talk about drugs and sex

and so forth and so on.

So probably don't listen with

your kids or with yourself if

you don't like listening to ab

ject subject matter.

Mom, you've been warned.

I met Jack Hopkins a few years

ago outside the Summit Music

Hall in Columbus, Ohio.

The film group that we were

both in was having a gathering,

but there was a band playing,

so nobody could talk inside, so

people just started going

outside.

I was just standing outside

nursing a drink.

And this young, interesting-

looking dude walks out of the

bar, and we just start talking.

And, yeah, there was just like

an immediate connection with me

and Jack.

It's like we knew each other

before.

It's like we were just picking

up a conversation we'd started

long ago.

And we've been friends ever

since.

Jack's about half my age.

He's about 26 right now, I

think.

And he invited me to a party at

his house, I don't know, six,

seven months ago.

And a lot of people at the

party thought that I was Jack's

dad, which I wasn't necessarily

offended by, but I was also

offended by.

Anyway, now that I am in Mexico

, I miss my friend Jack.

I hope he comes to visit.

And I hope you enjoy listening

to this conversation with him

as much as we clearly enjoyed

having it.

Thank you for listening.

Thank you for being here.

Here's Jack Hopkins criticizing

the sturdiness of the table I

had in my podcasting studio in

Columbus, Ohio.

Dude, this table is fucking wob

bly.

It's not that bad.

Okay.

Well, we've got a guest and we

're already complaining about

the table.

Interesting.

Sorry.

Yeah, it's a beautiful table.

So here we are.

Jack, Jack Hopkins.

They call me Hoppy, actually.

You don't call me Hoppy, but my

friends call me Hoppy.

No, I refuse to call you Hoppy.

You don't have to.

Sorry.

Yeah.

How long have people been

calling you Hoppy?

That's like four years.

No, I didn't grow up with it.

Jack Hoppy.

I don't know.

Does your girlfriend call you

Hoppy?

No, she doesn't.

That's good.

She did originally and I

actually had to say, please don

't do that.

You can't have that.

I don't like that.

Yeah.

No, it's not sexy.

And then when she refers to me,

to other people, she's like,

yeah, Hoppy's over there.

I'm like, what are you doing,

man?

I don't like it.

You got any nicknames?

No.

Me?

Tweety?

No.

Big Dick.

Masked huge dick.

Big giant dick.

On the street, I've heard that.

Yeah.

They're like, where's Big Dick

at?

I'm like, oh, Jack?

Yeah, he's over there.

Yeah, yeah.

No, no real nicknames to speak

of.

No, I remember having

girlfriends back in the day.

And like one girlfriend, Laura,

she wanted to like come up with

nicknames for each other.

And the one she came up for me

was Bunny.

And I was like, no, absolutely

not.

Similar to Hoppy.

Yeah.

Bunny is a little too cute.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No kidding.

So we never came up with nickn

ames and then she cheated on me.

Hey.

Oh, God.

So that's a red flag.

Maybe if we came up with nickn

ames, then maybe she wouldn't

have cheated on me.

If it was a good nickname, it

would have been a green flag.

Yeah.

Although I don't know that

there'd be-

Spike.

Spike, I don't think I don't

know if it was Spike either.

Or Danger.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Something like that.

So like growing up, what was

your life like?

Tell me like high school.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

So I mean like I like sports.

I've always liked sports.

But the second that a grown man

started to get mad at me, a

seven-year-old for not doing

it right, I immediately was

like, no, I don't want to do

this anymore.

Old people ruin sports.

I mean, why did they care that

much?

Just let them play.

Just let them play.

Living vicariously through a

seven-year-old.

And at the time, I thought it

was weird.

And now I'm looking back on it

and I still, I'm like, I was

right.

I was fucking right.

It's worse now than it was then

probably.

It was weird.

What sport was this?

I tried them all.

I tried them all.

I liked baseball the most

because I have hand-eye

coordination.

I'm not athletic.

I like to separate the two.

I don't want to run for longer

than, you know, a couple

minutes at a time.

Unless you're being chased,

right?

Yeah.

I don't want to do that either.

No, but I just, you know, I

wasn't athletic and everybody

else was athletic.

It's Dublin, Ohio.

It is a fucking green suburb.

When I talk about it like this,

I feel like I, yeah, the angsty

, you know, like, I got

to get out of this town, man.

They don't believe in me.

But that is how I.

You got out of Dublin.

That's how I felt though.

And I remember my big brother

was, you know, he was athletic

effortlessly and he wouldn't

study and he would get fucked

up all the time.

He just gets straight A's.

36 on the ACT.

Whatever.

Doesn't care.

I'll study and I'll study and I

'll study and I'll still get a C

plus, you know, even if

I studied all night, it doesn't

matter.

Retention.

Yeah.

ADD.

I don't know.

And I would double guess myself

.

So I didn't, you know, grades

would fail.

I wasn't very good at sports.

I was tiny.

I was tiny.

In a huge school, I was still

like the third smallest kid in

the class for a while there.

I'm still small, but now I can

blend in with a crowd a little

more.

I don't stand out or anything

like that.

Were you good at sports?

No.

No, I wasn't.

Like I liked them, but I just,

I got nervous.

I got really fucking nervous,

you know?

But then I grew to a certain

age where I was like, I don't

have grades.

I don't have sports.

I'm tiny.

I'm angsty.

What do I do?

How do you get respect fast?

I was like, well, I'm just

going to openly do drugs.

You know, I'm going to be like

the stoner kid.

Got to find your identity.

Absolutely.

And I watched Days to Confuse

when I was a freshman the

summer before going into

freshman year.

And I was like, okay, when I

meet stoners at my school, I'm

kind of like, I want them to

like me.

I'm like, okay, let's just do

that.

Let's just put it all on the

table.

Like Slater.

Yeah, but a little, they were

more menacing.

I was more Slater-esque.

The stoners at my school, you

know, they're kind of like

tough.

Yeah.

Like they wanted to fight each

other.

It's interesting that you

mentioned Days to Confuse

because I feel like when I was

in high school and junior high,

I feel like I got a lot of my

ideas about my identity from

movies as opposed to like from

a parental figure or an older

adult.

And I still think that that

actually affects the way that I

see the world in a way is like

watching too many movies when I

was a kid.

And you're preaching to the

choir.

Right.

I mean, whatever I thought was

like a cool guy, I would try to

be, okay, these guys in these

movies get laid.

I'm going to try to act like

that.

So if that's real life, right.

And yeah, no, it never worked.

Right.

Then you get older and you

realize.

What is that?

Are those movies not true?

What's going on?

Right, right.

Then you realize that it's all

bullshit and you're like.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I was really pissed about

that.

I was insecure as fuck, man.

Oh, acne is acne everywhere.

Yeah, me too.

Braces.

Actually, I had braces from

freshman year till senior year.

Me too.

Not that period of time, but

yeah.

Three years, two years.

I remember they wanted to keep

it ongoing in the college.

And I fucking orthodontists,

man.

They want to ring you dry.

It was the fucking worst, dude.

And once I caught on and they

were like, yeah, you're still

off by a couple of millimeters.

We recommend keeping it on.

And I was 18 at the time.

I was like, take them off.

Well, that's the game, right?

I'm like, I know that I can say

this now.

You got to take them off my

face now.

And they like looked at my mom

and my mom was just shrugged.

She's like, yeah, you heard the

band.

I was such a nerd in middle

school that like the nerdy kid,

this kid, Owen Priest, never

forget.

He slammed my head into a

locker.

Like the nerdiest kid above me

fucking hurt me.

Well, nerdy or weird.

He was both.

He was like the other outcast.

He was like.

Because a weird kid will slam

anyone.

It was like two outcasts, you

know, vying for power or

something.

It was fucking awful.

One of us.

Yeah.

Yeah.

One weird.

Middle school was the worst.

That's when kids learn how to

be assholes.

Yeah.

I was bulleted in middle school

.

That was the toughest one.

It was awful.

High school was fine.

High school got better.

For sure.

I had fun in high school to be

completely honest with you.

But middle school.

Yeah.

No.

I had a lot of trouble.

What did you do in high school?

Sports still or no?

No, no.

That was when I went full st

oner mode.

Freshman year was funny.

This transitionary period where

I didn't know and I didn't

really care.

What was it?

It was Young Life, which is.

Oh, I know what that is.

Yeah.

It's a youth group going on and

really prevalent at my school,

specifically with the seniors,

with that class.

And, you know, these seniors

come to the freshmen and they

're like, hey, you want to hang

out

after school, like on a weekend

night?

Love bomb.

Love bomb.

You can, you know, ride in my

car.

I was like, this is like Dazed

and Confused.

Except.

Right, right, right.

The exact opposite.

So, you know, we go to this

basement, which sounds weird,

but there were like, you know,

50 people in the basement.

But they're Christians.

Just dancing around.

It was a lot of fun, you know?

No drinking.

I was, I don't know.

I was naive.

I was like, didn't catch on to

me.

That they were Christians.

That was a tell.

Right.

I kind of knew that they were,

I knew that it was Christian

based, but then you're dancing

and dancing and dancing at the

end of the night and they're

like, all right, now we pray.

Right.

Okay.

Okay, gotta go.

But they did get me.

I felt kind of cool.

That's how they get you.

They love Bomb U.

Yeah.

Oh man, it was weird.

They would take, I actually

went to Young Life Camp.

Mm-hmm.

You know, it's like three days

in the woods in Saranac, New

York.

Your parents probably liked it.

They're not Christian.

They were just kind of like,

okay, sure.

They were hanging out with good

, wholesome people.

Good, wholesome.

Nah, they always trusted me.

I think they were just kind of

confused.

They're like, okay, sure.

Yeah.

If you're finding God, that's

not, go for it.

Sure.

Sure.

No, I just wanted to go because

everyone I knew was, all the

freshmen got kind of roped

in.

And my girlfriend at the time

was going and everything.

And I was like, all right, fuck

it.

I was an atheist at the time.

Mm-hmm.

My friends knew, my girlfriend

knew, and I'm agnostic now.

I don't give a fuck.

Sure.

But at the time, I was, you

know, pseudo-intellectual.

I was like, there's no God like

I knew.

But I would keep it a secret

from the actual Young Life,

like seniors.

Sure, because they're not going

to let you in if you don't.

Yeah.

You'll at least pretend.

Well, they did find out when I

was there, and they made it a

...

How did they find out?

Oh, people told them.

I don't know.

Word ends up.

You spoke a lot about how you

didn't believe in God.

To my friends, and my friends,

I'm sure, told them.

This whole God thing's bullshit

, by the way, you guys.

That's right.

And they had these weird games,

competitions, secret

competitions.

Right, I can see that.

To see who can convert the st

oner kid.

Oh, my God.

And they would take me deep in

the woods one at a time to Eno,

you know, hammock.

And they would give their...

This is my personal Bible.

I want to give it to you.

Like, if they could come out of

that woods with that win, they

would get so many brownie

points with good old JC.

If only they just had a naked

woman that you could fuck out

there, they'd be like, that's

how you get them in.

Yeah.

Right, right.

But that's premarital.

Right.

But you just don't have to talk

about it.

You're right.

Yeah.

Well, if it...

Yeah.

It would be the priest diddling

me, actually.

You know what Mormons do?

Mormons can't have sex when

they get married, so they'll do

a thing.

I forget the name.

Soaking.

Soaking.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's fucking crazy.

Would they just put their dick

near the vagina and have

somebody...

No, they put it in.

Yeah, I couldn't figure it out

where they actually put it in,

because they said there's

not penetration.

Uh-oh.

I'm sure there's layers of...

Like, when I looked it up

online, it said there wasn't

penetration, so it seemed like

maybe there's rubbing.

I don't know.

It could be either way.

But then you have a friend

involved under the bed.

Maybe it's the thrust that...

Maybe it's just the tip.

Is the...

If you thrust, then it's

considered penetration.

Maybe, yeah.

I mean, what a weird religion

that is, but just the tip.

Yeah, because the Mormon God is

so dumb that it can't tell the

difference between soaking

and actual sex.

I can't.

Mormonism is...

That's disrespectful to the

Mormon God.

As long as you're wearing the

Mormon underwear, you're good.

What's his name?

John Smith?

And they're from, like, Ohio,

too.

They came...

They were up in Ohio until they

...

When they were...

It was one of the big...

I think it was near northern

Ohio, northwestern Ohio, northe

astern Ohio.

I forget the city, but they

were living there, and then

they got kicked out of there,

and

they kept moving, and then they

finally got to Utah, and they

were like, all right.

This is where we're going to

settle.

Well, they're going to have all

our wives here and shit.

Our 20 wives.

I mean, the wives thing

probably worked out.

For the fellas, definitely.

For the women, not so much.

They think it worked out for

them, though.

They're...

Yeah, I don't know.

They get brainwashed, like,

hard.

Like, all the fucking way.

So, stoner crowd, and how old

were you when you got laid for

the first time?

I was 21.

Wow.

Yeah, yeah.

I had plenty of opportunities.

I'm not sure you did.

I'm just so serious.

I'm a gay fucker.

Yeah, that's what it says.

Look at his face.

Come on now.

Yeah, I could have fucked as

many chicks as I wanted.

No, no.

I was in bed, and I would be

naked, and I would just lie,

because I was just so scared.

Oh.

It's just terrified.

Or I'd have had my underwear on

, and they'd be like, what?

I would just come up with

something every time.

The first, like, it's happened,

like, five times, you know?

Or, like, yeah, you know?

You know, I'd be like, oh, my

best friend is actually in love

with you.

I can't go through with this.

Or, oh, I remember in high

school, I actually said, I'm

just so tortured.

I'm too tortured.

Wow.

Yeah.

And it didn't make any sense to

me or her.

She was like, okay.

But it worked.

You didn't get laid.

Yeah.

Score.

Right.

I did it.

Yeah.

That's the movie you should

write.

That's the movie you should

write.

Trying not to get laid.

Trying not to get laid.

That's actually what, that's a

title right there.

It was really fucking hard,

trying not to get laid, man.

God damn.

Yeah, what a nightmare for you.

Yeah.

Sorry you had to go through

that.

No, my first experience, yeah,

I just lied.

I was like, oh, yeah, I've

fucked.

What were you concerned about?

Not being good at it, I think,

was the big one.

Yeah.

Or, like, not either, you know,

coming too fast or not even

being hard at all, definitely.

Which was the case when I first

got laid, I'll be honest with

you.

Huh.

And then I was so pissed at

myself.

I was like, you horny little

bastard.

You're finally doing it.

You can't even get hard.

And then a couple days later, I

remember she was feeding me

rails of crushed up Adderall

all night.

I'm like, oh, fuck.

I completely forgot what that

does to your little ding dong.

That'll do it, yeah.

And I was so embarrassed, you

know.

So then you graduate high

school incredibly.

Incredibly, yeah.

What's your relationship with

your parents like?

Me and my mom have always been

very close.

My dad and I, you know, we're

buddies.

Fathers and sons are tricky.

Yeah, we're buddies, you know.

He's pretty much like, I don't

know, he reminds me of Adam

Sandler.

Like, he's just like, you know,

he can't be serious.

It's very, very difficult for

him to be serious.

Right.

So, you know, when, yeah, when

you can't ever be serious, you

can't ever be vulnerable.

And so when you can't ever be

vulnerable, you can't ever form

.

That's strong relationship.

So I do dig, you know, I poke

and prod at him when, you know,

sometimes.

I'd be like, what happened here

?

When I, you know, trying to

figure out what was happening

to his child.

He had a crazy fucking

childhood, man.

Vulnerability is tough for

Midwesterners and particularly

like older.

He's from Jersey.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah.

They're usually blunt.

They usually are.

Pretty frank.

Well, that's the stereotype.

Yeah.

But he is all about like, good

vibe.

Like he, you know, he's a Jimmy

Buffett guy.

Like, you know, he grew up on

the beach.

So.

Like he literally listens to

Jimmy Buffett?

Yeah.

Yeah.

How do you feel?

You like Jimmy Buffett?

I do because of him.

Which one?

Which songs?

We like trying to reason with

hurricane season.

I don't know that one.

Like things like that.

Everything rhymes in the Jimmy

Buffett song.

It's got to rhyme.

Yeah, they do.

I don't like, I don't like the

hits.

I don't know.

Changes in attitude.

Changes in latitude.

Yeah.

So you know a couple.

Okay.

Yeah, it's fun.

It's dumb.

No, but the instruments in

Jimmy Buffett song.

Hey, Margaritaville's a great

song.

It is.

I can't hear it anymore though.

Growing up with it, you know.

Some people say that there's a

woman to blame.

But they're right.

It's all their fault.

Wait, but there's a very.

But as the story goes on, he

progresses as a human.

At the end, he says, it's

actually my fault.

Yeah, see, Jimmy Buffett is.

Oh, I didn't.

I never thought about it.

I never looked into it.

I've got to pay attention to

these beautiful, deep Jimmy

Buffett lyrics.

Right.

I went to the last Jimmy Buff

ett show in Cincinnati.

And that is where.

It's the biggest fan base.

That's where they coined the

term Parrothead.

No shit.

Yeah.

Bigger than Key West.

I wonder why that is.

It's because nobody wants to be

in Cincinnati.

Nobody wants to be.

You know, when you're in Ohio.

No one wants to be in a lot of

places.

Yeah.

Well, since, you know, when you

're in Ohio, it's about island

escapism.

It's not about, you know, you

're daydreaming.

You know?

Yeah.

Columbus has sports though.

So that's how they, that's

their Jimmy Buffett is.

Columbus has got sports.

Yeah.

I'm not going to miss that.

You know, that's with you.

No, no.

I'm proud of him in my life

here.

My favorite thing about the

city is this cult of sports.

It's most people's favorite.

It's most people's favorite.

I'm a fucking, we're a couple

of snobs.

And you know, you know, more

power to them.

I was at a, I was watching the

championship game with my

cousin.

My cousin loves sports.

And we were watching the Ohio

state championship game.

It was with him and his kids,

but there was some friend of

his that I had never met.

And he was really, he was that

guy.

He was really into Ohio state.

And I'm just kind of watching

it.

You like to say, let's go a lot

.

Let's go.

I don't know if he said that,

but so we're watching it.

And I'm kind of like, I'm

watching a sporting event as I

watch sporting events.

I don't really like, I enjoy

watching sports sometimes, but

it's like, I don't take it

seriously.

I want an entertaining game.

If I'm going to watch it, I

want an exciting back and forth

or whatever.

Right.

And so the game started, the

game started pausing and yeah.

Yeah.

The game starts getting close

and I'm like, oh, at least it's

exciting.

And this guy's happy.

He's like, we don't want it to

be close.

Blah, blah, blah.

And at the end, he was getting

mad.

He was getting, he, if that, if

they'd lost, he may have like

killed himself or started

crying.

And I think he did cry actually

when they won.

Okay.

So college, I can understand

you're representing your school

, but NFL, I will never

understand

that.

That's just companies buying

people.

It's like, what are we?

Well, it's just professional

sports.

It's not any different than

baseball or basketball.

It's the same fucking thing.

Yeah.

No, your allegiance to a

company basically, because they

're trading you based on stats

and

sure.

It's all arbitrary, you know?

Yeah.

I'm not arguing that.

Although as a Clevelander, like

growing up watching the

Cleveland Browns, I do have an

affinity

for them.

I, if anything, I would root

for the Cleveland Browns just

for underdog sake.

Yeah.

That's what being from a

Cleveland is all about.

Yeah.

That I can get behind.

They did well, you know, a few

years back.

Yeah.

I'll watch it.

If they do well, I'll watch.

If they do well, I'll start

watching towards the end.

That's who, that's the, that's

the kind of sports fan I am is

if the team's doing well

at the end of the season.

Bandwagon?

Then I pay, exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like the Indians last year, the

Guardians were there.

Yeah.

Well, it, it also takes a lot

of homework and like daily

homework.

I call it homework because I

don't give a fuck.

I don't do any homework.

No, no.

I just mean like people that

are into sports, you know, you,

the way to, for people to

connect,

especially my family.

For sure.

Um, he's only bringing up the

names and the stats and, and,

and, and you, you gotta, you

gotta keep up with that shit

constantly.

I just listen to the sports

radio all the time.

I think it was Noam Chomsky who

said like, if he was listening,

he was like driving through

somewhere and he was listening

to random radio stations and he

got on one of these sports

radio stations and he's

listening to these people like

analyze sports to this insane

degree.

And he's like, if people

analyze the way the world and

the government works on the

level

that they analyze sports every

day, then we'd actually have in

a different civilization right

now.

Politics has turned into sports

teams, you know, you got your

reality TV.

Yeah.

Well, sports, it's like you, it

's like they see it as my team

versus your team.

No shades of gray, red versus

blue.

Yeah.

And then they treat, um, they

treat sports like politics, you

know, they're, they see the

complexities of it all.

And, uh, it's productive in a

certain way.

You know, you can talk to

someone without killing them.

Politics.

The first time, if you start

talking politics with someone

that has a little bit of a devi

ated

opinion from what you believe,

it's war.

It depends on the person.

Until you both decide at a

certain point, let's stop

talking about this because you

're not going

to win anyone over unless they

're a true on the fencer.

Which is really unfortunate

because that's not the way that

it's meant to be.

Like we're meant to be able to

have opinions that would change

based on new information.

Yeah.

And it's unfortunate that

everybody's so locked into

their, like, that's the problem

with

the world right now.

Aside from, you know,

everything.

Yeah.

Many problems with the world,

but that's a big one just that

we can't even, we're so closed

off to any other beliefs that

we can't even see each other.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

How old were you when Trump

first got elected?

Well, give me the year.

Uh, it was 2016.

2016?

I was 17.

Wow.

That's crazy to think that,

like, when I was growing up,

when I was your age, I, like,

politics was, I think it was a

George Bush.

And certainly there was rage at

politics and so forth, but it

wasn't like this horrible

behemoth that was, anyway,

slowly enveloping and the 24

hour news hadn't happened yet.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Yeah.

But now you've basically grown

up under like, well, I guess

Obama, Obama was quote unquote

good.

And then you had, you've got

Trump for 12 years.

Ain't nobody was good.

Ain't nobody.

That's a good, good president.

Jimmy Carter was one.

Jimmy Carter was actually a

good, good president and a good

man after he was president.

After he was president, he was

a peanut farmer from Georgia.

After he was president, he

spent the rest of his life,

like, working for Habitat for

Humanity and building houses.

He'd be out there 80 years old.

Fucking.

Nah, we can find dirt.

We can find some dirt.

No doubt.

Well, I'm sure there's dirt

somewhere.

I'm not talking about a little.

But at least Obama's got a

Netflix deal, for Christ's sake

.

No, no, no, no, no.

I'm not talking about a little

bit of dirt.

I'm talking about that dude

definitely funded genocides

like everybody else.

I'm saying relatively.

Yeah.

And I think he was.

In comparison to.

Yeah.

I mean, for the last 40 years,

50 years of his life, he

literally gave it, giving back

to the, like, he was.

Publicly.

Publicly.

Sure.

I'll take it.

Yeah.

Better than Obama right now.

He's just working for Netflix.

You can't ever give props to a

politician.

Especially the big man.

That's fair.

Yeah.

It just doesn't feel right.

There's stuff we just don't

know.

And we never will.

And it's just like, how many

fucking innocent people are

dead because of him?

Yeah.

Because of every president.

It happens.

So how'd you start the film

stuff?

Do you remember the first film

you ever watched?

No.

No.

I remember.

What's an early film that you

saw that was like.

A lot of animation.

A lot of animation.

There's this movie called The

Rescuers Down Under, which is,

you know, it's underrated,

underappreciated.

Yes.

Incredibly underrated, dude.

When you talk about classic

Disney animated movies, ain't

nobody ever going to mention

this

movie in a million fucking

years.

No, no, no.

You're right.

You're right.

And then I think first grade, I

had this, my best friend

Cameron, I'd go to his house

and I would use his family

video camera.

I was addicted to it so much

that he just hated me.

He was like, you just want the

camera.

I'm like, yeah, maybe.

I like you too, though.

And then I forgot about it for

a bit.

You know, I still loved movies

always, but I was a writer.

You know, I wanted to write

books and short stories, so I

did.

And then seventh grade, I was

12, 11 or 12, biography week or

month.

You know, you pick a biography,

you read it, you do report on

it.

It was between Bob Marley and,

yeah, I love Bob Marley.

And Spielberg.

I picked Spielberg because that

was what was available.

And I was like, I said it out

loud too.

I was like, this is what I want

to do.

And it has not, no doubt.

There was no doubt in my mind.

This is exactly what I want to

do.

And it just has not changed.

So did you like Spielberg at

the time?

Oh, yeah.

What's your favorite Spielberg?

I had an E.T. poster.

I was a big fan of E.T.

Yeah, growing up E.T.

Now, I don't know.

I had the soundtrack on 45.

Really?

Yeah, yeah.

It changes for me.

Loved Temple of Doom as

ridiculous as it is.

Not Raiders of the Lost Ark.

No, no, no.

I was a fucking kid, man.

I wanted like balls to the wall

.

Andy, Andy.

Yeah.

I wanted the most outrageous.

Yeah.

His movies are outrageous.

The Gremlins?

There's some good ones in there

, yeah.

The Gremlins is underrated.

There's some bad ones, but

there's some good ones, yeah.

I miss it.

No, he's a master.

Yeah, but nowadays, I haven't

even touched his historical ep

ics.

I mean, Jaws on its own is just

incredible.

Oh, yeah.

That's number one.

Okay, that is the number one.

I saw that in the theater like

three, four years ago, and it

was an amazing, like, there's

so many things about that movie

that are so smart, yeah.

So fucking good.

The thing he figured out was

like, he'll have the camera on

a character, and something's

happening off screen, and they

'll hear a sound, and they'll

look, and he doesn't show

you what they're looking at for

a few seconds.

Does he pan over after?

Or whatever, he cuts to it, or

whatever, but he just builds

the tension by just showing

the person reacting to the

thing that you don't even know

what it is yet, right?

Yeah.

I'm actually doing that in the

short film, that exact thing in

the short film that we're

doing right now.

That by this point, once this

is released, it'll be in Tribe

ca and be made into a feature

film,

I believe.

That's true.

I'll have the funding by then.

Yeah, there'll be a $10 million

, A24, I believe.

Yeah.

We're going to get Daniel Day

out of retirement.

For sure you should, yeah, yeah

.

To play a 21-year-old.

Yeah.

Have you ever seen My Left Foot

?

Yeah.

Doesn't really work with the

microphones.

Shouldn't laugh, yeah.

Just to describe what Jef is

doing here, he did a crude

imitation of a disabled man.

No, it's literally the guy in

My Left Foot.

It's Daniel Day-Lewis playing.

Oh, I got some fucked up lore

on My Left Foot.

See how it ends on a very sweet

note?

Like, oh, he found a woman that

loves him and there's some hope

.

Vaguely, yeah, yeah, yeah.

She abused the fuck out of him.

Oh, the real My Left Foot guy.

Yes.

She abused the hell out of him.

Might have even led to his

death at one point.

Let's make the sequel.

Let's make the sequel.

What do you...

Oh, yeah.

My Left Foot Part 2.

The Darker Years.

My Right Foot.

Right, right.

Yeah, he starts feeling his

right foot.

Because she...

Yeah, she beat him, definitely.

I wonder if Stephen Hawking's

like...

Wasn't he married or something?

Did I wonder if his wife

fucking like...

I don't know.

I've seen the Family Guy clip

where they're both disabled and

having wheelchair sex in bed.

She's like typing in her moans.

I don't...

I don't know.

That's as far as I know about

his fucking...

That's pretty funny.

That's pretty funny, though.

I know he had a girl when he

didn't have the disability.

Right, we all saw the movie.

I didn't.

Oh, yeah.

I just know about it.

Oh, right.

You're just a fan of Stephen

Hawking, yeah.

Yeah.

Just know the Stephen Hawking

lore.

I tried reading some of his

books just to like feel smart.

I read the one.

It didn't make me feel smart.

It was just more confusing.

I love the first like quarter

of that like Carl Jung type

book because it's one that you

're

like, oh my God, I'm

understanding what they're

saying.

And then they're like, there's

a drop off point where they're

like, okay, now that we've

explained all of the beginner

dumbass shit, let's just start

talking.

Let's get in.

Yeah.

And then I'm like, oh, I have

no idea what they're saying.

Right.

God damn.

I think my brain just, I think

like some physicists and stuff,

I think their brain just works

differently.

But like, I want to understand

that, like how you can explain

the universe with math.

Like what's that?

How do you, like you can

explain how the universe acts.

Why gravity because of an

equation?

I don't get that at all.

So like our brains, like my

theory is that our brains like

intentionally, like we were,

we were wired for our brains to

intentionally like short

circuit when we start to

conceptualize

how large the universe might be

because it just wouldn't work.

It's not that we can't do it.

It's that it's not healthy for

us.

But not everybody's does though

.

Like there's clearly people who

are able to comprehend this

level.

They bypassed it.

Yeah.

And they're fucked.

You think that?

Yeah.

They have, they have a lack of

empathy to a certain degree.

They've transcended a certain

part of the human condition.

Maybe they know something that

we don't.

Yeah.

That's what I'm saying.

Right.

But I think I would rather stay

in my lane and keep my empathy

than understand, like,

you know, big picture people.

You got to think about the big

picture, you know, think about

the species.

Nah, I ain't about that.

I'm talking about, I'm thinking

about individuals and that's

about it.

Sure.

I mean, we're all inherently,

you know, egocentric.

What are you saying?

But I mean, it's true.

How can you, you can't, you can

't avoid it.

Yeah, I know.

But like, I was reading some

book that was talking about

what, what would really happen.

Like they are working on like

drugs that will extend our

lives, right?

So this guy was kind of pos

iting, like, what would happen

if they invented this drug?

Well, first off, like the rich

people would get it first,

right?

This would be a drug that would

, everybody would want it, right

?

Probably be gatekept for like

100, 200 years.

Yeah, that'd be right.

And they wouldn't, they would

keep it a secret.

Right.

But then the ramifications of

having a, of being able to live

, let's say, I mean, even 300

years,

whatever.