In this episode of Left of the Projector, I chat with Tyler and Kennan from the Revolutionary Rhetoric Podcast about the cult classic *True Romance*. We explore its unique blend of romance and crime, character dynamics, and the interplay between reality and fantasy, particularly through Christian Slater’s character.

Tyler expresses his deep appreciation for the film, while Kennan provides a fresh perspective as a newcomer. We discuss memorable scenes, the chemistry between Slater and Patricia Arquette, and the socio-economic themes reflected in the characters' choices. We also touch on the film’s outdated elements and the evolution of media representation.

To wrap up, we share our ratings, highlighting the film’s narrative depth and lasting significance. Tune in for a concise yet insightful analysis of *True Romance*.

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Evan Intro: Hello and welcome to Left of the Projector. I am your host Evan,

Evan Intro: back again with another film discussion from the left.

Evan Intro: You can support the show at patreon.com slash leftoftheprojectorpod and follow

Evan Intro: on all platforms at leftoftheprojectorpod on Instagram, threads,

Evan Intro: and at lotp underscore pod on twitter slash ed.

Evan Intro: This week on the show, my guests are from the Revolutionary Rhetoric Podcast,

Evan Intro: This week's film is True Romance, directed by Tony Scott, written by Quentin Tarantino.

Evan Intro: It stars Kristen Slater, Patricia Arquette, Dennis Hopper, Val Kimmerer,

Evan Intro: Gary Oldman, Brad Pitt, Christopher Walken, and many others.

Evan Intro: The film was released in 1993, was not much in the box office,

Evan Intro: with a budget of $12.5 million, netting only $12.6 million.

Evan Intro: However, I think over the years, The Legacy, looking back on it,

Evan Intro: it is a much better film than the box office showed.

Evan Intro: And as you'll see from our discussion, that it is a pretty iconic film from this period.

Evan Intro: I hope you enjoy this week's episode on True Romance.

Evan: All right well we will get into the conversation this week on true romance thank

Evan: you both for joining me today.

tyler: Thanks for having us yeah.

Kennan: Thanks for having us man.

Evan: Absolutely and i guess before we jump in i already kind of told everyone you

Evan: have uh your own podcast revolutionary rhetoric but before we jump into the

Evan: conversation do you want to tell everyone about it where they can find it all those good goodies.

tyler: Yeah sure thanks uh yeah it's just revolutionary rhetoric podcast kind

tyler: of wherever you get your podcast um spotify stitcher google

tyler: podcast whatever uh we just kind of do contemporary news

tyler: and current events through kind of a marxist lens so we just

tyler: take a lot of it's gaza um obviously just

tyler: because that's in and you know in the news right now but it's just kind of taking

tyler: whatever the big story of the week is and we just kind of discuss it from a

tyler: marxist perspective we just take two three four stories a week and just kind

tyler: of dissect them and do some some analysis and video and audio as well yeah both

tyler: video and audio so So check it out on YouTube and on any podcast app,

tyler: Revolutionary Rhetory.

Evan: But yeah, so I know when I sent you both the list of films that I chose,

Evan: you immediately chose True Romance. And well, I guess one of you did.

tyler: Yeah.

Evan: I don't know. Do you want to say, you said before we were on,

Evan: you said it's your favorite movie. But I guess before we, that doesn't really

Evan: need much other explanation on that. That's why you chose it.

tyler: That's why I chose it. Yeah. I was looking down the list and I saw True Romance

tyler: and I was like, that's the one. I mean, there were a couple of like,

tyler: the entire list was like just solid bangers. So I was like kind of.

tyler: hype for any one of them but then i came across true romance

tyler: and i know that kanon hadn't seen most of those movies uh in our

tyler: podcast we kind of clown on kanon for just not really

tyler: having seen any movies uh and like that's kind of my time for that that's like

tyler: my my bag is like movies and i'm a big like kind of i hate the saying movie

tyler: buff but i'm gonna be douchey and say i'm a movie buff and like all of those

tyler: were good picks but then i saw true romance and just that being my favorite

tyler: movie i just wanted to share that with kanon so that's why i kind of pitched

tyler: that that's sweet yeah that's.

Kennan: Very sweet of you.

Evan: No that's i like that it's uh it's it's always interesting there's

Evan: another podcast i listen to where a movie podcast and they often will do a movie

Evan: where one of them really loves it the other one has never seen it and then it

Evan: becomes kind of interesting because you want to get to see them talk about it

Evan: for the very first time or see it for the very first time and you know i don't

Evan: know maybe they'll uh have the same love for it or maybe they won't.

tyler: Yeah i mean i'm we haven't spoken about it since actually too because i kind

tyler: of just watched it earlier so i i'm curious to hear what kanan's thoughts are about my.

Kennan: Problem is like i don't like watching movies that i love with other people because

Kennan: i'm always nagging i was like this is the part where this.

tyler: Happens pay attention pay attention pay attention any of like my favorite movies

tyler: with my wife because she like could not give a shit less about movies so that's

tyler: the same thing i guess i'm like pay attention yeah.

Evan: I can understand that it's it's uh you know anytime you watch something where

Evan: even though i watched a movie with my kids and i'll have seen it a bunch of

Evan: times and i'll be saying the quotes and they're like shush shush we're trying

Evan: to watch this well it's like your movie is like a single movie.

Kennan: But my favorite movies lord of the rings and having to put my girlfriend to

Kennan: watch that it took us three years she we finally just finished it.

tyler: The hobbit and the lord of the rings yeah it took us three years.

Kennan: To watch six movies.

tyler: Damn yeah.

Kennan: Extended editions the the lord.

Evan: I actually just saw in the theater um the they put the first sorry no it was

Evan: the yeah the fellowship of the rings extended edition in the theater for i think

Evan: it was two weekends and i went to see.

Kennan: It as well also.

Evan: One of my favorite movies.

Kennan: I would watch return of the king and uh the two towers with her because she

Kennan: hasn't seen those either so we're like let's just hit them back to back this

Kennan: is taking way too goddamn long to watch these movies i mean.

tyler: It's a good timing they're back in theaters it's kind of.

Kennan: Easy four and a half hours it was like an entire flight to like across the oh yeah.

Evan: I mean seeing those in the theater is uh is always a treat but so

Evan: normally i mean sometimes i throw out like a little quick little uh fun thought

Evan: experiment icebreaker and usually i go with the very uncreative uh you know

Evan: if you could have dinner or drinks or something with like an actor living or

Evan: dead would you uh who would you pick yeah.

tyler: I thought a lot about this since you sent this list list of questions and uh

tyler: i think i gotta choose paul newman i don't i actually don't know paul newman's

tyler: politics that's kind of the one caveat to that is i don't know if he's like

tyler: some like died in the wool conservative or something which would be annoying.

Kennan: But it's a rush limbaugh daily but i.

tyler: Don't know i i was real big on butch cassidy and sunday scan and the sting when

tyler: i was growing up too my mom showed me those two movies those are like true romance

tyler: my favorite movie but i i kind of have this list of like top whatever movies

tyler: and both the paul newman robert redford uh movies are on there and just the

tyler: sting has a special place mark so i think paul newman would probably be probably be mine.

Kennan: That's a good choice i've honestly never seen this movie have you okay well

Kennan: have you heard of him have you heard of oh god.

tyler: Butch cassidy and the sundance kid nothing.

Kennan: Okay i okay okay after that oh my god dude i'm gonna

Kennan: make you a list oh my god um i don't know personally

Kennan: i i wrote ian mckellen just because lord of the rings and i'm

Kennan: just like i think i put too much energy in lord of the rings and i forgot other

Kennan: things existed for a long time that hyper fixated yeah just hyper fixated just

Kennan: my fucking adhd and probably probably a bit autistic as well yeah he's funny

Kennan: but uh i i think i might change that answer to um god what's his face,

Kennan: holy crap i blinked on his name and it's like the one of the biggest comedic

Kennan: stars of all time kevin hart no it's from the truman show oh jim carrey jim

Kennan: carrey i don't know why he popped out of my head but yeah i love like the ridiculousness

Kennan: of jim carrey and i think I think that would be just like a fabulous time.

Kennan: pick his mind just like what the fuck is going on in your brain i.

Evan: Think a lot actually from from all.

tyler: Like the.

Evan: Painting he does and all this stuff i think he's got a lot.

tyler: Going on i would have to push back on that the only thing i know

tyler: about jim carrey like personally is the quote from tommy lee jones and

tyler: filming um was it batman and robin or batman

tyler: forever one of the one of the batman sequels whatever one jim carrey

tyler: and um and tommy lee jones were in i guess tommy jones just absolutely fucking

tyler: despise working with jim carrey because he was just like a clown the entire

tyler: time and he said something the quote was something like i just cannot sanction

tyler: your buffoonery and it was just like tommy lee jones just wanted out and like

tyler: i just imagine that would be really obnoxious dinner date not to shit on your pick sorry i.

Kennan: Would i'd be clowning with him we'd be going off into like public uh spheres

Kennan: and jumping on tables oh sorry jumping on tables and like shouting obscenities yeah.

tyler: Yeah i just want to sit down and have a whiskey and a cigar and have a refined

tyler: dinner or he can be an absolute.

Kennan: Prick and be like i don't i.

tyler: Think he's a nice guy from what i know i.

Evan: Wouldn't yeah i could see him being more serious now you know that was sort of his younger uh.

tyler: Yeah ace ventura days movies like that days.

Evan: I actually like uh ian mcclellan as a as a pick

Evan: i'm not gonna steal that from you but that would be

Evan: a nice one to do i also would love to um i think actually you know i think it

Evan: would be vigo mortensen and i'm also a huge lords and rings fan and he also

Evan: has great he always says cool stuff and he recently said if they if you Peter

Evan: Jackson called him up and wanted to have him in a Lord of the Rings thing, he'd just do it.

tyler: Neil Mortensen's a good pick too.

Evan: Of course he would.

tyler: By all accounts, he's a super kind and generous guy.

Kennan: Just a genuine character. Yeah.

Evan: He went on TV during the... I guess it was the Two Towers right after 9-11 and

Evan: wore the No Blood for Oil shirt right on Charlie Rose's TV show.

Evan: You could have gotten blackballed from Hollywood.

tyler: That was a pretty bold time to do that for sure.

Kennan: Yeah well i think he so.

Evan: I'll give him props.

Kennan: Oh yeah i think i think he's always been a really good character um he's

Kennan: never went for huge movies he didn't really go for the money and from what i

Kennan: understand he went to do lord the rings because his son loved the books that

Kennan: was all right yeah yeah and so like that kind of speaks to what kind of person

Kennan: he is he always went for like there's like um smaller indie movies yeah.

tyler: He is he's in these two movies that i just i adore um eastern promises and history

tyler: of violence if you haven't seen either one of those i.

Evan: Knew you're gonna say i knew you're gonna say history of.

tyler: Violence they're so good yeah they're just kind of.

Kennan: Some more recent one with like the a racial film as well like about like racism

Kennan: and like the 60s oh uh green book with yes masha.

tyler: Or paula ali.

Kennan: Yeah but that was good too yeah i haven't seen that one yet i want to see it mahar.

tyler: Shala that.

Evan: One was like a pretty big uh did it did it win best picture or.

tyler: Yeah i think it was it was nominated for sure i don't remember if it won that

tyler: year was like 2019 or 2018 whatever that was yeah,

tyler: I could be way off on that year. That was a good one. I actually watched that pretty recently.

Evan: I actually haven't seen that one, but I've seen a lot of his new,

Evan: but you're right. He doesn't like do, you know, he's done. I'm looking at like his list.

Evan: He's done, you know, some here and there. He did like the psycho remake,

Evan: which I don't think I ever saw, which I'm sure is.

tyler: That was like the Vince Vaughn one or whatever. Yeah. I didn't see that.

Evan: Yeah.

tyler: I never saw that.

Evan: Yeah. I can't imagine that was good, but, um, but yeah, so, I mean,

Evan: I guess, I guess this would be a good moment to say, since one of you,

Evan: it's your favorite movie for you, Ty, and And then, Kanaan, it's first time seeing it.

Evan: I'm curious, both of you. I guess I'm more curious, Kanaan, what's your thoughts

Evan: on the movie? You know, you just saw it for the first time.

Evan: What would you say your impressions of it is?

Kennan: I think it was a very good movie. It was very well.

Kennan: I like the whole storyline and how it all comes together at the end.

Kennan: And it was just like a big bang.

Kennan: But it was kind of cliche a little bit from like the 90s. You know,

Kennan: you could tell this was like a late 80s, early 90s.

Kennan: they're trying to they're slowly getting away from like those one-liners and like more into,

Kennan: like a crime story kind of sense but i i liked it i liked it it wasn't it wasn't

Kennan: super cliche but it still had a little bit bit of that factor in there and i i really liked it yeah.

Evan: And for you ty what would you say it's being in your favorite movie what what

Evan: do you what would you say is your do you have a memory of actually seeing it for the first time i.

tyler: Don't remember seeing it for the first time um i had

tyler: a good friend of mine a long time ago and both uh him and i just kind

tyler: of to challenge each other we was we watched a lot of movies we like we used

tyler: to go to like a lot of like um we play a

tyler: lot of movie trivia games we do like we were like super nerdy about

tyler: it and so we were just trying to like find just cool movies to show each

tyler: other and that was one that i stumbled across i don't even remember how i

tyler: found it but i just i don't know i just fell in love with it i think

tyler: i i agree with a lot of what kanon says i think it is

tyler: very like of the times of the early 90s

tyler: and so it kind of has that vibe to it but i think what sets

tyler: it apart is like the chemistry mystery that

tyler: all of the actors have with one another that kind of like push

tyler: it past that like into past the

tyler: cliche and kind of into its own like higher achieving level of like where it

tyler: just it does stand apart i think it is more memorable than just like you know

tyler: other movies of the time even by the same um like director like thinking of

tyler: like last action not last action hero last boy scout and like all of these movies

tyler: kind of from the early 90s that like were in a very similar um.

tyler: Genre i guess but i think this one is just more i think hans zimmer has a lot

tyler: to do with that i think quentin tarantino has a lot to do with that um tony

tyler: scott is a pretty like you know i don't want to kind of shit on tony scott but

tyler: he's kind of like a lot of his movies were kind of more just generic action

tyler: movies i think all of his his entire filmography apart from this is kind of bland

tyler: um so there's some there's some good movies in there i did like deja vu which

tyler: came a little later but i think this is by far a standout and i think that has

tyler: a lot to do with just the chemistry of the two leads the writing the score and

tyler: tony scott's vision and direction yeah.

Evan: I mean well it's interesting you mentioned it being

Evan: um sort of like this i don't know cliche and you

Evan: know very 90s in a way i almost feel like that might have been sort of what

Evan: they were going for and especially when you think of the title sort of being

Evan: one of these sort of pulpy i mean it's also i think tarantino said that he was

Evan: thinking about this movie pulp fiction natural born killers like all kind of

Evan: being in the same little universe.

tyler: Yeah they were that was originally the same it was the same script originally um

tyler: the screenwriter for natural born killers or the script

tyler: writer i guess gave his first version to tarantino because

tyler: they worked at a video store together and tarantino gave him back a 500 page

tyler: handwritten like manuscript and that ended up being cut and two separate movies

tyler: were made from that which was natural born killers and this so they were kind

tyler: of like like twins almost in the womb kind of these movies so that's why there's

tyler: a lot of parallels between the two because they were kind of like one story

tyler: that was then divided. Yeah.

Evan: And I, and it was funny as he loves or he mostly loves Tarantino,

Evan: loves, uh, true romance, but hates natural war killers.

Evan: He thinks, uh, Oliver stone butchered that.

tyler: So I agree. I don't like natural more killers. In fact, I don't really like

tyler: any of Oliver stone's movies.

tyler: I know that might be like blasphemy to say on a movie podcast,

tyler: but I think Oliver stone's kind of like overblown a little bit,

tyler: um, kind of like bloated.

tyler: I digress. I mean, I think, I think everything that we've kind of said,

tyler: I think is what makes a true romance work in that, in that regard of like just the tightness of it.

tyler: And I think it was trimmed down and I think originally, um, well,

tyler: I'll save that for later.

tyler: We've got some more trivia. I'm happy to divulge later.

Evan: Well, and one, and I was, I think I mentioned, I was, I was watching this,

Evan: uh, maybe it was last week and I think I posted somewhere online,

Evan: like, you know, I can't think of any movie in the nineties that maybe had a better cast from,

Evan: every single side person the main characters everyone you know like samuel jackson

Evan: in it for a minute you have you know all these people in there and it's like

Evan: you said it doesn't work without everyone together and it just is stacked with

Evan: people i mean i mean yeah the amount of.

Kennan: Iconics and yeah.

tyler: Yeah i i agree and to answer your question you

tyler: pose that question like is there another movie from this kind of era with

tyler: a stacked cast and i think ironically enough speaking of oliver

tyler: stone i think jfk might become closest of like just everybody in jfk and also

tyler: gary oldman as as lee harvey oswald and jfk but i think that's kind of that

tyler: maybe comes close but i don't i don't think there's another movie except also

tyler: maybe like his other tarantino movies like pulp fiction perhaps that has like

tyler: as big of a cast yeah um the.

Evan: Only other one i was thinking uh which i actually just i haven't released it

Evan: but i just didn't recording on it is uh heat which probably maybe doesn't have

Evan: quite as many people in it but it has a pretty.

tyler: Everyone in it is you know you just have yeah yeah even like the kind of the

tyler: more i don't know like i think that's where like a lot of those guys shine is like, what was his name?

tyler: Dennis Haysbert and, um, and, uh, Danny Trejo and just everybody in heat is just crushing it.

Evan: Yeah, you have Henry Rollins as like this little side guy. Yeah, Hank Azaria.

Evan: Hank Azaria, true, too. Yeah, it's just got like, and Jeremy Piven,

Evan: I think, plays like a doctor.

tyler: Is Jeremy Piven in that?

Evan: Yeah, so I mean.

tyler: These- Jeremy Piven, okay. That's cool.

Evan: Yeah, he's in it for, I think, less than a minute, maybe not even a minute,

Evan: like 30 seconds. I think he does like a surgery or something on one of them after they get shot.

tyler: Oh, okay.

Evan: Anyway, it could go, that's, you can listen to the Heat episode.

tyler: I'm looking forward to it, nice, yeah.

Evan: So one of the things that I was looking into is, you know, obviously when I'm,

Evan: this is a leftist film podcast, we're thinking it from those ways.

Evan: I don't often look at a movie and say like, it's very clear.

Evan: You could almost see these two competing ideas, like, you know,

Evan: in a dialectical sense. And I think the two pieces of it that jumped out to

Evan: me as is like this reality versus fantasy.

Evan: And you have multiple characters in this movie, primarily like the leads,

Evan: you know, Christian Slater and Patricia Arquette, as sort of having competing

Evan: things in their mind of like their actual reality of, you know,

Evan: the life that they live, and then this fantasy that they want to live.

Evan: and it all comes together because christian slater's

Evan: character likes comic books he works in a comic book store like

Evan: one of the first scenes you see is him showing spider-man number one which i

Evan: think is kind of a good kind of a perfect scene in terms of kind of uh foreshadowing

Evan: of the rest of the movie but i don't know what you think about that as a kind

Evan: of like a backdrop for for the whole film itself as this just you know the reality

Evan: and the fantasy of all the different characters.

tyler: Yeah i think so i mean i think it's been um likened i

tyler: think it was tony scott pushed because the original script i

tyler: guess had both of the leads die in the end in the shootout they were supposed to die and

tyler: that was the ending that tarantino really was pushing for and i guess tony scott

tyler: had to really like convince tarantino to let them live because i

tyler: think he to quote tony scott he said it was because it

tyler: makes it more of a fairy tale and i think that's kind of like it's a happily ever

tyler: after kind of story so i think that kind of answers your question of

tyler: like yeah there is a lot of like almost fantasy elements to this in

tyler: terms of like not like fantasy the genre but fantasy

tyler: isn't like i mean christian slater is clearly either like disassociative

tyler: or a sociopath i mean he's like you know he's seeing elvis and you

tyler: know in in the bathrooms and stuff yeah so bad

tyler: yeah so like what the fuck who's this guy both christian slater

tyler: and patricia arquette's characters are like you know they have some kind of

tyler: like mental health issues like whatever you want to call it so there

tyler: is like this fantasy element to the whole movie but yeah i

tyler: don't know i think it is it's hard to pin because that's

tyler: this like it's almost like an underlying thing to the

tyler: main like reality plot so there's this fantastical element that kind of of underpins

tyler: the entire story as it moves forward in this very real very like grimy kind

tyler: of real world crime caper while at the same time having like these kind of touchstones

tyler: of like fantasy of like you know elvis visiting christian slater in the bathroom

tyler: every time he goes to the bathroom stuff like that.

Kennan: The bathroom because.

tyler: Just where he's alone you know.

Evan: Yeah that's where elvis died oh yeah and that's where that's.

tyler: A good point i actually hadn't even considered that that's.

Kennan: A good point like legit.

Evan: I mean i don't i don't know if that's why they did it but it makes sense right yeah.

Kennan: Well just a little bit of backstory it's like hell yeah like you know he died

Kennan: in the bathroom but like where does he where he's gonna see elvis we gotta throw

Kennan: him in there twice so you know just make two bathroom scenes and call it good yeah.

Evan: Yeah and the and it's interesting well kind of to to the point of the kind of

Evan: the like grimy reality i mean if you took away sort of the fantasy aspect of it.

Evan: You really have, you know, you obviously start out in Detroit,

Evan: which at the time is, you know, a city that's kind of on the downward slope, to say the least.

Evan: And then they go to LA in the early 90s, which is definitely,

Evan: you know, it's much different than it is today, or even, you know, in the heyday.

Evan: So it's kind of like these two places where if it was just that without any

Evan: of that fantasy side, it's, you know, it's pretty, everyone is pretty dark and

Evan: all the you know quote unquote bad guys you know the the drug dealer drexel

Evan: uh played by olben which brilliant.

tyler: Scene with him and.

Evan: Then you have the you know the um the christopher walken and the sicilians it's

Evan: all just like everyone is just out for themselves and uh it's kind of kind of

Evan: perfect that the pinnacle scene is just everyone shooting at each other.

tyler: Yeah with.

Evan: No regard for anything.

tyler: Which yeah like i think that's that's true like if you take away

tyler: those kind of fantasy elements to it if you take away like his kind of childlike

tyler: you know comics and and sunny chiba like kung fu

tyler: movie kind of obsessions it is just a very standard kind

tyler: of crime grimy crime story right with just the mob and cops and robbers and

tyler: you know and shootouts but then you add that kind of um almost whimsical hans

tyler: zimmer score and kind of that like fantasy element to it and it it that's kind

tyler: of what i was saying at the beginning is like that's what kind of pushes it beyond just

tyler: a generic kind of action movie is there's a certain like whimsy to it almost because they,

tyler: christian slater and patricia arquette are like very um like ambivalent toward

tyler: where they go next they're very just go with the flow and they're just along

tyler: for the ride and they're just like in love and sociopaths and just having a

tyler: good time on the you know on this on this road of whatever yeah.

Evan: And it's almost as you were saying before how sort of uh natural born killers

Evan: is sort of of like this uh twin kind of uh coming out of the same thing those

Evan: are like the complete opposite characters like they don't have that the fantasy

Evan: is removed and they're just psychopaths so it's kind of like uh.

tyler: They're just like hardcore killers yeah yeah yeah.

Evan: It's interesting how those two movies kind of have this complete similarities

Evan: but then they're just complete opposites as far as the uh i haven't seen in a while so i don't.

tyler: Yeah i guess i should i shouldn't speak too much about natural import killers

tyler: because i also haven't seen that movie in 20 years so i probably I probably

tyler: shouldn't speak too much on it. Yeah.

tyler: I just remember not really liking it. So have you seen natural burn killers? Yeah.

Evan: No.

tyler: Okay. So Woody Harrelson and.

Kennan: What year was it.

tyler: Forget who his partner was um 90 yeah early mid 90s maybe late 90s yeah 96 okay

tyler: yeah yeah that's the problem is like.

Kennan: I came here in 98 well with ford and parents.

tyler: Juliette lewis was that the female lead in that one i don't remember yeah okay

tyler: robert downey jr yeah yeah okay all right maybe i'll give that another it was

tyler: 94 okay maybe i'll give that one another shot that's what we're talking about

tyler: now but i'll give it i'll give it another shot yeah.

Evan: It's one of those ones where i also don't remember loving it but i think i may

Evan: have only seen it one time and just.

tyler: Yeah i.

Evan: Don't know i also think of movies that i saw when i was probably not ready to

Evan: watch them and then i watched them 20 years later i'm like oh shit.

tyler: Yeah that's probably true for me too it actually is a good movie i saw it in

tyler: the early to mid 2000s when i was in my like mid-teens so i probably just didn't

tyler: really appreciate it maybe maybe revisiting it now i might have a different

tyler: kind of lens to see it through i'll i'll give it a shot if i have time that's

tyler: also i remember being a really long movie too i think that's like a three and

tyler: a half or something i don't i don't recall but oh.

Evan: Man oliver stone always.

tyler: Makes yeah movies which is why i still yeah he still i think i think his movies

tyler: are a little bloated but that's that's just my own personal they're.

Evan: Often i i've only done i think i've done a couple of his war movies and they

Evan: have good aspects to them but then i also think there's a lot of problems with

Evan: them sort of the politics too but we don't have to go down the oliver.

tyler: We're talking about true True romance here, goddammit.

Evan: Yes, yes. And then the thing also, I mean, part of this is, but this is part

Evan: of sort of like the side part of that question of the reality versus fantasy,

Evan: is that Slater really, Christian Slater's character really is trying to sort

Evan: of hide, it almost seems like maybe run away from his life in Detroit,

Evan: and he's kind of given this,

Evan: out i guess you could say he meets someone he realizes it wasn't actually you

Evan: know meant to be it was sort of his his uh boss had paid for the call girl to

Evan: come and you know go out with him,

Evan: and clearly he had like nothing really going for him and he's like well you

Evan: know this person then all of a sudden professes they love me you know fuck it

Evan: i'm just gonna i'm just gonna go with it it's it's almost like that is ultimate

Evan: fantasy of just you know this beautiful woman comes in and And then the next

Evan: morning or that night, she says she loves it. So it's next morning.

Kennan: Kill somebody.

Evan: It's crazy.

tyler: Yeah. The next morning or then I. Yeah. Well, it's unclear.

tyler: Well, because they get married. So, like, it's unclear how many days have passed.

tyler: But yeah, he kills Drexel within, I don't know, presumably a few days of meeting her.

tyler: So, like, yeah, the whole thing gets a whole tattoo on him. Yeah.

tyler: Then we get matching tattoos. Yeah.

Kennan: She fucked me up. It's like the scene pops up and it's just like a tattoo of

Kennan: his name. But didn't you two just meet? Like, you guys really are for each other.

tyler: Yeah.

Evan: Yeah, that seems like one of those, you know, really bad decisions that normally

Evan: or normally would be a really bad decision.

Evan: But somehow in this in this dream fantasy, you know, they're they're meant to

Evan: each other, meant for each other or something. I don't know.

tyler: Yeah, I think that's kind of like going back to your question.

tyler: I think that I don't know.

tyler: I think that kind of is the ultimate and not the ultimate fantasy.

tyler: But that is like that's the fantasy, right?

tyler: You fall in love with a stripper. You fall like the bartender,

tyler: the stripper, the the prostitute, whatever.

tyler: They fall in love with you and you, you know, that's you run away together. other i

tyler: think that's got pretty cliche kind of fantasy for most men i

tyler: think like in a lot of senses i think it wouldn't work again

tyler: going back to i think the chemistry between uh slater and is just so like strong

tyler: and so believable that and also that element of they're both kind of playing

tyler: into it like the the acting choices they make of where they are kind of both

tyler: just slightly unhinged but they're not they're not full-blown crazy but they're

tyler: both just a little like unhinged that it just like,

tyler: it somehow it's believable and i think again i think all things kind of just

tyler: came converged to just make like a believable narrative between the two of them

tyler: i don't think that would have worked if you casted anybody else i think drew

tyler: barrymore was originally kind of like the lead for this i.

Evan: Saw that thank god.

tyler: Yeah and it's like it wouldn't work dude there's something about just them two

tyler: in particular and i just while we're on the subject i just want to shout out

tyler: christian slater because like man that dude crushed the 90s and i think he's

tyler: just like criminally underrated as like this cool 90s actor like i just recently

tyler: watched pop pump up the volume as well which was

tyler: so good and like i don't know he just did a lot of stuff in the 90s that he

tyler: doesn't get credit for he.

Evan: Did he was um uh i remember that movie very bad things i don't remember being

Evan: like a really good movie but i remember him being really good in it he was.

tyler: Also in broken arrow was pretty fun i don't

tyler: remember that movie being all that great i think i had probably more i think

tyler: john travolta was really him ended up in that movie but but i think christian

tyler: slater just comes he's always just comes off so cool and i'm just like yeah

tyler: i fucking love christian slater i just wish he did more but i don't think i

tyler: mean and then mr robot you know more recently he was great in mr a robot um

tyler: that's true yeah but anyway just shout out christian slater crushing it maybe.

Evan: Maybe maybe less of a shout out for doing that movie about pop tarts on frosted.

tyler: Oh see and that was the new jerry seinfeld movie or jerry seinfeld i didn't

tyler: see it i didn't know christian slater oh that's a bummer okay well i take back

tyler: everything i said fuck christian slater no i'm kidding i mean maybe he.

Evan: Maybe he's fine and i don't know i think he's he's actually has a new movie

Evan: coming out that's It's directed by Zoe Kravitz, some kind of drama thriller.

Evan: I don't know who else is in it.

tyler: Okay.

Evan: But I just.

tyler: I'm curious.

Evan: Briefly. So I don't know. I mean, maybe he's, he could still hook out. He's not that old.

tyler: He can.

Evan: He's only 54. Man, that's crazy.

tyler: Yeah. He was like younger than my dad. I think during True Romance,

tyler: he was probably like in his mid, late 20s. I mean, that was.

tyler: And I think Pump Up the Volume was even earlier than that. He played a high

tyler: school kid. Maybe he was just kind of just out of high school in Pump Up the Volume.

Evan: Yeah. He was 25 in True Romance. That's kind of crazy.

tyler: Yeah.

Evan: Yeah it kind of lends to the believability of it in some ways and i know we

Evan: already talked about the dude the elvis being this ridiculous thing and i also

Evan: had forgotten that it was played by val kilmer it doesn't really sound like

Evan: yeah you can't really tell and never show his face but.

tyler: Yeah it's just and i guess that was another thing not to keep interjecting with random trivia.

Evan: They were afraid.

tyler: To like tell val kilmer that like hey your face is never

tyler: going to be shown because it's kind of a big deal for an actor right to just

tyler: be told like hey you're not actually going to be shown in this movie but val

tyler: kilmer apparently was like all for it he like was like on board with the idea

tyler: and like the way that character worked within that script he's like no that

tyler: that makes sense and i'm not gonna be like a diva about it like that's fine

tyler: so i was like dude shout out to val kilmer for just being a bro and just not

tyler: showing his face an entire movie.

Evan: Yeah oh man talk about a guy who you know fall from grace mostly you know due

Evan: to health issues but man he was he also had a rock star 90s and kind of early

Evan: 2000s i love val yeah it was like kiss kiss bang bang was the last like.

tyler: Great thing i saw him in i think that was like the mid 2000s i'd have to look

tyler: at his i'd have to look at his film.

Evan: Yeah he had he had he got cancer like throat cancer

Evan: and like couldn't use his voice anymore oh bummer which is

Evan: what ended up happened to him yeah there's like a documentary i think

Evan: you can watch i don't know that it's super sad yeah because yeah

Evan: yeah they don't they don't like it's not publicized like they never really talk

Evan: about until the documentary came out okay but it's a shame i always love val

Evan: kilmer yeah but yeah i think though so one of this is also one little notes

Evan: that i had seen so in the in There's some point later when Christian Slater

Evan: refers to Elvis' movie Jailhouse Rock.

Evan: And it's one of those things where I think he kept using the kind of the moniker

Evan: of like living fast but doesn't die or whatever.

Evan: Or living fast, dying young. Now I can't remember.

tyler: Yeah, he said living fast, dying young and leaving a good looking corpse.

Evan: Yes, that's it. But it's funny is that in...

Evan: the movie jailhouse rock elvis does not die and it's just kind of this funny

Evan: i don't know if that was intentional in any way but just because elvis died

Evan: in like the worst way possible like a lot you know on the bathroom toilet you

Evan: know falls over and so maybe there's some kind of like him.

tyler: Having a hard time facing that reality and like it would be better to have kind

tyler: of died in you know this kind of more epic way than yeah i see what you're saying

tyler: kind of than the way he did go out.

Evan: Yeah i mean at any moment where if christian slater had actually died it would

Evan: have been kind of like a rock star way to go out probably yeah.

tyler: That's a good point actually another another layer to that movie's got layers.

Evan: Yeah this is one of those things where i i don't know i was trying to i don't

Evan: have the blu-ray or dvd or anything i'm sure that they might talk about some

Evan: of these things and some of the like commentary i couldn't find a ton actually

Evan: of tony scott talking about the yeah there's a 2002 edition of.

tyler: The like dvd that has some commentary on it i didn't i don't have that version.

Evan: Um i.

tyler: Have it digitally but um that's where like i was reading some trivia kind of

tyler: in in preparation for this i think that's where a lot of the uh it's according

tyler: to the 2002 commentary was like a lot of the kind of imprint the parentheticals in those.

Evan: So i think it was patricia arquette yeah and.

tyler: I don't know who else it was patricia arquette and somebody else was on that

tyler: um on that dvd commentary.

Evan: Oh it'd be cool if it was like you know um walk-in or i don't know some of those

Evan: other ones i think he was really he was a huge fan of the movie i saw like something

Evan: about that he loved his little his parts in the movie everyone had their part yeah.

tyler: And i was like watching this where the really critical lens of like each of

tyler: those kind of vignettes of like, you know, a new player enters the scene and

tyler: then they exit never to be really seen again. And that's kind of, um,

tyler: it's not unusual for Tarantino to kind of have a story like

tyler: set up like that but just like as you know

tyler: Dennis Hopper come on as Val Kilmer come on as Samuel Jackson Gary Oldman

tyler: all of these different kind of bit characters in this come on they

tyler: all crush it and like just everybody really gives it their all that scene between

tyler: Walken and Hopper is just so good uh like just Gary Oldman in general just crushes

tyler: this movie James Gandolfini like I was I re-watched that scene I like rewound

tyler: it a couple times because I just wanted to hear his monologue again and dude

tyler: like man shout out to that scene that was so good yeah that was great um stick.

Kennan: It in me one time he.

Evan: Was really good in it and like there's actually the scene in the trailer when

Evan: um it's having the conversation between dennis hopper and christopher walken

Evan: you see uh gandalfini kind of standing in the back with this.

tyler: Like evil little smirk yeah i caught that i was chasing like man knowing what

tyler: was gonna happen later i was kind of watching him more intently in that scene yeah yeah it's.

Kennan: Hard not to notice him you know with like toes from the sopranos like.

tyler: Oh sure yeah you're.

Kennan: Like god damn it is that that he's like the side character i'm like who's the main character.

tyler: So that's the thing it's funny enough actually james gandolfini

tyler: has another part in a completely unrelated movie

tyler: very similar to that where he's a hitman that goes and kind of

tyler: has this like really like heartfelt monologue with the person i think

tyler: he's supposed to kill who's uh it's the mexican with brad pitt and julia roberts

tyler: and james gandolfini is like a hitman who goes and he like he ends up like uh

tyler: discovering that he's gay and he comes out of the closet like and like him and

tyler: julia roberts have this like heart to heart i don't remember the details but

tyler: i was just like I always remember the parallels between the two scenes of James

tyler: Gandolfini going to kill somebody in a hotel room and ended up...

tyler: having this kind of one-on-one conversation.

Evan: He's been in a bunch of tony scott movies too i think that both he and dennis

Evan: hopper are in not dennis hopper um uh gene hackman is in enemy i guess i guess

Evan: they're not the same gandalf in crimson tide yeah which is also which is not

Evan: a the best movie like hunt for red october is the better the better sub movie yeah.

tyler: Yeah i remember liking crimson tide that was the denzel washington one about

tyler: like um gene hackman kind of went off the rails and wanted to pull the trigger

tyler: on the nuke i think if i remember correctly.

Evan: Yeah yeah and then He did Enemy.

tyler: Of the State, too, which also Gene Hackman. I don't think Gandolfini was in that.

tyler: But there's a lot of parallels between Enemy of the State, at least the final

tyler: scene, because it's a very similar thing where the police, the mob,

tyler: and kind of I think a third group all converge at this restaurant because they've

tyler: all been set up to go there to collect this item, whatever the MacGuffin was.

tyler: And it's like this three-way, everybody pointing guns at each other, and everybody opens up.

tyler: And it's Will Smith, I think, is under the table, and he crawls away.

tyler: way and so it's that that shootout scene from true romance is like mirrored

tyler: in an enemy of the state another tony scott movie it's like a very similar kind of climax i was just i.

Evan: Don't i haven't seen that one in a long.

tyler: Time enemy of the state that one was bizarre because i like jamie kennedy and

tyler: seth green and i think jack black are all like tech guys in the van and it's

tyler: just like that's also a very bizarre cast yeah and.

Evan: There's also the thing that um i think that there's some parallel to this is

Evan: like going deep into the weeds but i think jim hackman was also in the movie

Evan: the a conversation from the 70s where he's also like the same character almost

Evan: it's almost like a spiritual successor.

tyler: Kind of sequel-ish.

Evan: Kind of thing.

tyler: I think even um the theme song to

tyler: the conversation had a very similar uh like

tyler: um xylophonic kind of um whimsical thing

tyler: i think i think tarantino and zimmer i don't think that's a coincidence i think

tyler: tarantino and zimmer kind of got together and and or tony scott and kind of

tyler: that wasn't a coincidence i don't think that was just that's my half remember

tyler: trivia from reading it today so i think the conversation came up in in my reading

tyler: so i don't think that was uh unintentional yeah.

Evan: Anyone anyone out there hasn't seen that movie and likes you know a really good

Evan: uh kind of thriller i would uh definitely recommend that one for.

tyler: I actually haven't seen it i was i kind of it's on my radar now because of the

tyler: reading for today i'm like okay i'll have to come back oh.

Evan: And i just saw it recently so that's why i mean it was one of those ones like

Evan: oh i never saw it when i was younger and someone's like oh you should really

Evan: see the conversation i think i was watching uh the parallax view which is you

Evan: know part of the um the uh blanking on it's like trilogy of three films that

Evan: are very kind of the paranoia trilogy anyway.

tyler: But that's.

Evan: That we're going we can.

tyler: We keep going off that's the problem talking about movies is you just want to talk about movies i.

Kennan: Will have a question for you guys also if you had to replace one actor in that movie.

tyler: Easy,

tyler: that's what i wrote two notes down and i uh one is an answer to this question yeah.

Kennan: Who would you replace.

tyler: Michael rapaport i.

Kennan: Was thinking the same.

tyler: Exact thing and that's because of his politics now yep i just thought he was

tyler: garbage yeah he's a hokey actor in everything he's in i will say this was probably

tyler: re-watching it and i was being very critical because i despise michael rapaport

tyler: but i was watching him very critically and he didn't not deliver he he plays a very like shitty

tyler: actor and he did shitty acting and yeah he plays this kind of like derpy yeah

tyler: it's almost perfect right and it kind of worked for what he was doing there's

tyler: a couple moments where he's like

tyler: i don't know in like in the car scene i think and then uh when they're sitting

tyler: down right when they meet um lee donowitz and like i don't know there's just

tyler: a couple moments where i was like okay he he,

tyler: delivered those lines but i just for political sake i would say get rid of michael

tyler: albauer and that character you can kind of i think that one's swappable he didn't

tyler: deliver anything that was like super spectacular that somebody else couldn't

tyler: uh from the mid-90s you know should.

Kennan: Just swap the brad pitt and him.

Evan: Yeah i would have said that i would have said the exact same thing michael rapaport

Evan: but again for the exact same reasons of his you know what we know about him

Evan: now no one else in the movie really has a bad performance i mean some of the

Evan: characters that are like you know the other sicilians in there i think like the guy who plays luca.

tyler: Little wooden that guy's.

Evan: He's great you know paul van victor he's you know really i wouldn't replace

Evan: any of those guys like they all had just the right moment.

tyler: I think the two uh the two henchmen um donna was his henchman they have a few

tyler: lines more than kind of um they should i think and they they didn't quite deliver

tyler: but that's getting real nitpicky of like um because donna was so funny when he's like you,

tyler: uh he kept trying to tell him that he had a the clarence had a gun on him

tyler: you know donald was kept interrupting him we were like like don't be

tyler: rude or whatever and that was i just it was a funny scene but i think the those

tyler: two kind of uh bodyguards they didn't quite deliver but that's again that's

tyler: like being real what you don't know about me i hate cops right oh yeah that

tyler: line that line was a little like yeah it's.

Evan: Funny in my letterbox review that was literally like my whole review just that one that quote.

tyler: That's that's good but.

Evan: And it's actually cool i think um lee donowitz also is in tarantino's movie

Evan: once upon a time in hollywood i don't think he is in it.

tyler: But he might just be referenced yeah i mean that's it's

tyler: like the same universe his son um donnie donowitz from inglorious

tyler: bastards eli roth's character the bear jew yes that's donnie

tyler: donowitz lee donowitz is his son so this is on the this movie

tyler: i think qualifies uh if you're familiar with like the diverging

tyler: timeline theory of tarantino movies how there's two sets of there's a

tyler: fiction and a non-fiction universe within tarantino's oeuvre and this is the

tyler: non-fiction side of that i believe so like that makes yeah so like this is a

tyler: real movie within tarantino's universe because this is the diverging timeline

tyler: of world war ii where the allies murdered hitler so brutally so this is a hyper

tyler: violent world so that's the i think that's the theory speaking.

Kennan: Of hitler and jews i don't know if you guys notice like the little things i'm

Kennan: sure you have because you've watched the movie a million times.

tyler: Talking about rommel his dog no no jesus no.

Kennan: I'm talking about in the car scene as they're going to drive to the what was that the hotel.

tyler: Sure to.

Kennan: Drop off the drugs for money uh you can see them talking to each other and there's

Kennan: just the star of david like in a black like container like small black container

Kennan: i don't even like a plastic slip uh hanging there.

tyler: And i'm like.

Kennan: Was that was there any like you know.

tyler: In the purple car and signalism to.

Kennan: That or symbolism.

tyler: It was in there in the purple car in the cadillac but that's

tyler: clear that's clarence's car tony scott gave that car

tyler: to patricia orcat after filming because her car was like not running so a

tyler: little more trivia for her that's patricia orcat's actual i wonder why that was

tyler: i don't know i didn't notice that either well i do notice there was like a bunch

tyler: of because like dennis hopper's dog is called rommel who was like the very famous

tyler: is nazi general so like i wonder if there's just little like competing sides

tyler: to this of like nazi's shit and then like jewish shit that's just kind of sprinkled

tyler: throughout i'd have to like really like re-watch it with a super like microscopic lens the.

Kennan: Only reason i even noticed someone must have written an article about that oh yeah.

tyler: Because like i was just wondering like i was really thinking about that today

tyler: like why is his dog's name rommel like it's just so so bizarre the only reason i even like.

Kennan: Noticed it is because like i'm sitting there like looking at michael rapaport's

Kennan: face and i'm like you fucking fucker and i'm thinking about you know his support

Kennan: for israel and then i see star.

tyler: David just looking back.

Kennan: And forth i'm like what's going on here.

tyler: I have no idea what kind of symbolism.

Kennan: What is this supposed to mean like.

tyler: It doesn't have to be there why do you have to put us i don't know you know

tyler: yeah most a lot of movies don't even show crosses or.

Kennan: Anything like that this guy's like let's just throw that in there.

tyler: Well because like i don't i mean maybe.

Kennan: If it's their own personal car maybe they just forgot to take it off maybe we're.

tyler: Yeah i don't know whose car it was um it was somebody's car because i think

tyler: it was tony scott's car because he gave it to patrick or at least you know the

tyler: production purchased it i don't i'm not sure if it was actually somebody's personal

tyler: car ahead of time but yeah i don't know interesting good catch i didn't catch

tyler: that i don't i don't know i don't know why that would be there i.

Evan: Didn't either i was i was you know i just briefly looked like to see if there's

Evan: anything about it but maybe it also has to do with the dennis hopper and christian

Evan: slater are kind of like you know estranged i guess you could say they've you

Evan: know don't have a very good relationship they don't see each other and that

Evan: would make sense maybe he's like well well,

Evan: my dad's a Nazi lover and, you know, I'm, you know, not.

tyler: Just like a way of kind of like rebelling, a way to act out.

Kennan: I missed that. Was his dad supposed to be a Nazi lover?

tyler: I don't know. I mean, his name is Rommel and he's an ex-cop.

tyler: I mean, what more evidence do you need, man?

Kennan: Okay, you've sold me.

tyler: I don't know. I don't know. I mean, he's like pretty vehemently racist.

tyler: His dog's name is Rommel. I mean, that's not a lot of evidence.

Kennan: I mean, yeah, he was literally calling the Sicilians the N-word because the

Kennan: Moors happened to be in Sicily.

tyler: Yeah so like but that was to get under.

Kennan: Their skin i don't know.

tyler: If that was like meant.

Kennan: To be like purely just out of racism.

tyler: Yeah i don't know probably a little probably a little bit of both yeah we know

tyler: that he was like a pretty heavy alcoholic we don't know a ton about their history

tyler: but we do know that they are estranged because of like um you know his alcoholism

tyler: and kind of after either the mom died or left i don't know if it's clear made and we know that um,

tyler: creatures later didn't have like a great upbringing there's that scene where they're

tyler: at the airport after the gandolfini scene where he's talking about he always

tyler: hated airports because it you know like growing up poor in detroit he lived

tyler: near an airport and like people just getting away and being able to kind of

tyler: travel it was something he like watched his whole growing up and was never able

tyler: to like take part in that so he kind of grew resentful of that so we know that

tyler: he's you know poor but that's the extent of it i guess well.

Evan: I guess that that i mean we haven't i briefly kind

Evan: of mentioned like the dialectical kind of reality versus fantasy

Evan: but i mean i don't think we're at

Evan: minute i don't know what minute of the podcast and i haven't no

Evan: one has used the word capitalism which is more i'm just kind

Evan: of joking but when i think about like the like the cruel

Evan: realities of you know all these different sort of

Evan: crime syndicates you have the you know the call you know you have drexel and

Evan: you have the sicilians and you have all these different things you also have

Evan: you know the hollywood isn't necessarily crime ridden but it's definitely you

Evan: know all these things to actually make it in hollywood i'm wondering if you

Evan: like how you you would see sort of,

Evan: or if you would see any kind of, I don't really know how to ask this in like a question form,

Evan: but sort of, you know, how do you think that sort of like the capitalist sort

Evan: of system and structure leads some of the, I guess, characters to make the choices they do?

Evan: You know, a lot of times you'd say you're a criminal because you kind of probably

Evan: got in trouble when you're younger, you went to prison, you could never shake

Evan: that, no one would hire you, so you have to go to do something that,

Evan: you know to pay the bills literally and so you might lead to uh to life of crime

Evan: but it does kind of seem like drexel enjoys his uh his uh violence just shooting people for fun yeah.

tyler: Certainly did you have something.

Kennan: Yeah i was gonna say the entire movie is based upon like the disparity of capitalism

Kennan: because if you really think about it they're willing to take a risk uh with

Kennan: for to sell you know this coke for 200 grand to live for maybe 10 years traveling

Kennan: because Because they're always living off a minimum wage.

Kennan: I mean, if you remember in the scene where he takes her to his workplace where

Kennan: he's selling comics and stuff, he's like, she's like, how's your pay?

Kennan: And he's like, well, it's not great, but you know, the people love me and blah, blah, blah.

Kennan: And she's a call girl, which is like two ends of like people are doing things

Kennan: they have to do just to survive.

Kennan: And then they're given this chance to, you know, have enough money for the next

Kennan: 10 years without worrying about it.

Kennan: And they'll do anything for it. and then hereby there's

Kennan: like some random fucking rich producer who's like ah

Kennan: here's 200 grand for coke and it is like he's not even thinking twice about

Kennan: it and it kind of shows you like the two sides of like uh hollywood and then

Kennan: there's you know again they started out in detroit michigan where everything's

Kennan: poor this rf with a scene where there's homeless people you know circled around

Kennan: a metal barrel with a full of fire.

tyler: Although the opening credits yeah a lot a lot of it.

Kennan: Is varied you know towards like that class spectrum of like here's two different lifestyles.

tyler: Yeah and i think like that even kind of pushes the whole like fantasy

tyler: theme a little further too because like that's the dream right some you

tyler: know something falls in your lap you're if you're a poor working class american and

tyler: then you just get this opportunity something for like a suitcase full of drugs falls

tyler: in your lap so that you can sell that kind of furthers that

tyler: like you know the get rich quick like making it almost you know i mean not making

tyler: it as in like becoming you know the a successful businessman but making it just

tyler: in like a way out of poverty and kind of what i just just mentioned previously

tyler: kind of alluding to like you know they both presumably grew up in poverty because

tyler: she came from florida and he grew up in poverty in detroit so yeah i mean that that kind of,

tyler: I would assume that's their kind of primary motivation for just like being so

tyler: committed to this caper of selling this cocaine is just like to get out of that

tyler: kind of cycle of poverty.

Kennan: To get into that situation, they had to be slightly sociopathic to do the things that they did.

Kennan: This guy, the only reason they ended up having the drugs is because this guy

Kennan: was like, you know what? I'm going to go kill that guy.

Kennan: Yeah, fuck him. And his friend. And that's the way.

tyler: Well, to be fair, he didn't go there to kill him. He just went there to get

tyler: a suitcase. And then things spiraled and he was getting his ass kicked and he pulled a gun on him.

Kennan: No, no, no. He went there to kill him. because don't you remember like in the

Kennan: beginning he's like uh like the elvis literally you know the elvis in.

tyler: His head convinced him to go.

Kennan: Kill him because even the cops wouldn't care about like him killing us.

tyler: No but that happened after didn't it no oh that was before that was before yeah.

Kennan: And so like i.

Evan: Think he probably went there with the possibility.

tyler: Of doing it because he brought it so he knew the possibility but i don't think

tyler: he intentionally like went there with like the premeditation of like i am going

tyler: there to kill drexel i think like but.

Evan: He did bring the envelope, which I think is so funny. He like found an envelope

Evan: that he used to make the little There's nothing in there.

Evan: But no, I think you're completely right. I think that the, you know, and in some ways too,

Evan: to succeed you know in you know to become

Evan: like a the level of a capitalist you have to be

Evan: like a psychopathic person to to do all

Evan: those things so it's not really any different and the fact that

Evan: they accidentally get the suitcase full of

Evan: coke just because the people are just you know giving him his stuff real quick

Evan: as he's you know after he's just killed uh drexel he you know that was just

Evan: luck too right so there's it's the only way you can succeed is both luck and

Evan: also to be a psychopath so he has both of those uh you know kind of handed to him well.

Kennan: Even for that they also they have to work just to sell the drugs because to even.

Evan: Get to that.

Kennan: Point of being able to sell the drugs and make the money they're basically being

Kennan: hunted down by the capitalists or by the.

Evan: State that.

Kennan: Had uh that is using the police to uh to arrest them to not be able to make

Kennan: that money so either way they were kind of screwed on all corners and then you

Kennan: know just and there's that fairytale dream that they survived at the end ran

Kennan: away with the money and then had lived happily ever after.

Evan: Yeah and also and i guess you could almost see the um

Evan: like the italian mafia sicilians or whatever you want to call call them as sort

Evan: of you know it's they they are kind of like the capitalists trying to well i

Evan: guess they are in some sense in their own version of their what they do they're

Evan: coming after them because you've you've stolen like Like if you steal from,

Evan: the worker steals from their boss,

Evan: they will come at you with, you know, the law, maybe not, you know,

Evan: guns and James Gandolfini with dangerous smirks.

Kennan: If I had to go out, man, if I had to go out, I'd love James Gandolfini to come kill me.

tyler: Well, rest in peace to the legend, James Gandolfini.

Evan: Oh, man. He just died a couple years ago.

tyler: Right? Yeah.

Kennan: I didn't even know he died.

tyler: He died like two, three years ago. Something like that.

Kennan: Damn, RIP, bro. go i just started getting into it i think.

tyler: Maybe it was like last year it was pretty recently right yeah gandolfini yeah

tyler: a lot of people just died tony scott killed himself um the director of tony scott gandolf.

Evan: Yeah tony scott jumped off a bridge yeah.

tyler: He did i guess supposedly he was diagnosed with cancer 2013.

Kennan: He died in rome italy.

tyler: Denis hopper no gandolfini that was 2013 while it felt like it was not that long ago that.

Kennan: Was 11 years ago.

tyler: Or a decade ago wow old uh because i remember that yeah because he had a couple

tyler: movies that were in the can that's like he had a couple movies that continue

tyler: to come out up until 2015 or something like his movies were continuing to come out,

tyler: with him having long been dead scott.

Kennan: Died in 2020 in 2012 sorry.

tyler: 2012 yeah off.

Kennan: The vincent thomas bridge.

tyler: Yeah and then dennis hopper's dead i think that was cancer why do you why why did he.

Kennan: Jump off i mean.

tyler: Obviously you're sad he left a note but the family never

tyler: disclosed it uh but he was i think recently diagnosed with cancer and they found

tyler: some kind of um sleep aids and antidepressants in a system so i think it was

tyler: just a combination of you know whatever mental health issues going through plus

tyler: being diagnosed with cancer um i don't know you know his brother i don't know

tyler: if you're familiar his brother ridley scott oh wait.

Kennan: Uh is that the author.

tyler: No he's a director he's like i mean he used to be ridley scott used to be great

tyler: i think he's kind of falling off wait.

Kennan: Is he napoleon is that the movie.

tyler: Yeah yeah okay those are the more recent gladiator gladiator uh that's right

tyler: alien i mean fucking alien um oh.

Kennan: What's han simmer again dude han simmer is like crazy genius when it comes.

tyler: To music.

Kennan: And movies yeah.

tyler: I love that theme and I think speaking of

tyler: themes I kind of do like that that's the theme of Slater is

tyler: just like being cool like you you alluded to it earlier of

tyler: just like it's better to die young and leave a good-looking corpse and to

tyler: kind of you know go out on the toilet or whatever and that's like there's a

tyler: theme song is called you're so cool and Christmas later just all about being

tyler: cool and then Patricia I can't writes on the napkin you're so cool and that's

tyler: just like that's what kind of I don't know fuels Slater's kind of identity throughout

tyler: this movie is just that idea of like you just have to be cool and he brings that

tyler: confidence and that swagger to kind of his business dealings where it's like,

tyler: there's a couple of scenes that I think this, again, gives credit to Slater's

tyler: performance where like behind closed doors, his like hands are shaking,

tyler: you know, and he's not this suave, swagger, confident guy,

tyler: but he's doing that to kind of like, because Elvis wants him to or because,

tyler: you know, he has this idea of what cool should be.

tyler: And so he brings that. And I just, I think that there's a lot of kind of,

tyler: again, understated performance from Christian Slater that he just kind of really

tyler: brought to like, to that, to that character of just,

tyler: really just like there's some subtleties and nuances which i'm a big fan of.

Evan: Definitely and i think um what like i but this is maybe not like the we're not

Evan: at the end necessarily but i'm curious um just because i was thinking about

Evan: it what would you say is your favorite scene,

Evan: scene you could well i'll go say scene of the of the movie.

tyler: You want to go first no.

Kennan: I'm trying to think.

tyler: I have mine i think it's the gandolfini uh patricia ricat scene that's that

tyler: speech that he gives about like your first kill and your second kill and then

tyler: you know now i just kill just watch Watch their expressions change.

tyler: I think Gandalf and he just delivered that just so earnestly.

tyler: I just thought that was really cool. Really cool. Cool moment.

tyler: I think that's probably, probably my favorite.

Evan: I like that scene. I, I also, the, the moment when they first,

Evan: I guess it's sort of at the very end when they first arrived to Lee Donowitz's

Evan: hotel room, like before the actual shootout, just like the conversation between what's his name?

Evan: Uh, the actor Saul Rubnick and Christian Slater and the whole thing is just,

Evan: it just, he's just this, um, eccentric person.

Evan: person you would this it's almost like the stereotypical rich director guy who

Evan: just you know he keeps getting told how good his movie is and he's just this

Evan: huge prick and he's i don't know.

tyler: Yeah i love that i like that too and i also like that they address that like

tyler: later in the bathroom he's like i'm not asking him and he's like no you're telling

tyler: him what i what he wants to hear and that there's a difference there and like

tyler: because christian slater's aware that he's like might be laying it on too thick

tyler: so elvis has to kind of tell him that no it's okay so yeah i like that too and

tyler: i like that even the movie was self-aware enough to kind of like reference that

tyler: scene within its own movie i just thought that was cool do.

Evan: You think that they were referencing like platoon or something like that.

tyler: I think it was probably an like analogous to platoon or um uh not not deer hunter

tyler: what's the other one apocalypse well they talk about apocalypse now and deer

tyler: hunter i think um they do yeah.

Evan: I think he says those are his so i guess it.

tyler: Must be platoon yeah yeah or i don't know what's the other famous one hamburger

tyler: hill i guess is the other kind of third vietnam movie full metal jacket that's

tyler: fair i forgot about that one yeah i assume it's just maybe just like analogous

tyler: to kind of any and all of those movies as a,

tyler: genre just those kind of 70s 80s Vietnam movies,

tyler: I guess Deer Hunter was probably late 60s, but yeah. Or no, Deer Hunter was

tyler: late 70s. What am I thinking? Yeah.

Evan: One of the other things that I like this, put this in my, maybe it was in one

Evan: of the questions I should like I share with you is sort of the,

Evan: where I think I mentioned at the beginning, sort of how one of the very first

Evan: scenes, Christian Slater with our Patricia Arquette is in his comic book store

Evan: and he pulls out, he's like, yo, do you want to see Spider-Man number one? And he shows a tour.

Evan: And they also specifically mentioned again that the character in the comic is fighting a Nazi.

Evan: so another like little call back to fighting nazis and

Evan: he has this ring and he jumps in he's willing to do whatever it takes and it

Evan: also seems like that is also kind of the story that he goes by and that he you

Evan: know he's protecting this person through you know quote-unquote superpowers

Evan: he's not a superhero just a random guy but he gets pumped up by a fake elvis

Evan: in his head and somehow gives him.

tyler: Superpowers so.

Evan: It's all this.

tyler: Okay but i think again that kind of once again pushes

tyler: that fantasy element because later in the movie he does get shot in the head and he survives and

tyler: like well yeah it's just kind of a glancing shot but i think that is meaning that's they're

tyler: definitely i think they're aware of that of like it's just more of those fantasy

tyler: elements of like where you know the main character gets shot in the head but

tyler: survives and he is kind of this superhero um whether i mean like whether he

tyler: is or not is irrelevant it's kind of like the character itself is just kind

tyler: of has that they'll almost those attributes so yeah i think i totally agree,

tyler: that that's probably intentional and you know there is parallels though there and.

Evan: I also know I had never actually seen, so at the beginning they talk about the

Evan: Kung Fu movies they go to see in the theater, Street Fighter.

tyler: Yeah, the Sonny Chiba movies. I haven't either. I actually wasn't like super

tyler: familiar with Sonny Chiba.

tyler: I was doing some research and I didn't know that that was Satori Hanzo in the

tyler: Kill Bill. That's Sonny Chiba.

tyler: Like he's later in Quentin Tarantino movies, which I thought was like a fun full circle.

tyler: Because I didn't even know Sonny Chiba was real. I thought that was maybe just

tyler: like a Bruce Lee analogy kind of thing. And so I was doing some research and

tyler: I was like, oh, Sonny Chiba was real.

tyler: These are actual like Kung Fu movies from the you know, 70s and 80s.

Evan: Well, the note that I wrote down is that he just he's like describing the plot

Evan: of the movie to British Arquette in the theater.

Evan: And it almost seems very similar to sort of like the plot of the movie to it

Evan: just this guy who, you know, goes out and beats a bunch of people up to,

Evan: you know, because he's told to well, maybe I'm maybe I'm stretching. Yeah, I don't know.

tyler: I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't somewhat intentional.

tyler: I mean, from what we know about Tarantino, he has this kind of like encyclopedic

tyler: knowledge of all things like obscure movie.

tyler: And so like, you know, he has been one to kind of intentionally place those

tyler: parallels of like his characters talking about movies or his characters talking

tyler: about pulp culture aspects that mirror the story of the movie.

tyler: So I guess I don't know. I don't know enough about the movies to really say one or the other.

Evan: No, but I think I've heard that too. He always throws in these little references

Evan: that are, he's probably thinking like, hoo-hoo, no one will know this.

Evan: And then, you know, I guess someone knows and then everyone knows because.

tyler: Because it's on.

Evan: I mean, maybe when it first came out.

tyler: Some BuzzFeed article talks about it or something, yeah.

Kennan: Did you notice the first article?

Kennan: the first uh girl uh you talked to in the uh the slater talked to the very beginning

Kennan: of the movie she was like full-on dressed up like marilyn monroe.

tyler: Yeah i was i've always been unsure if herself was

tyler: a prostitute or not and like i think that's why he when he invites

tyler: her out because they do seem to be getting like you know hitting it off and then

tyler: he invites her to a movie and she declines and i've always been curious whether or

tyler: not because like why is this random you know some would say

tyler: attractive woman hanging out in some skeezy bar with with you know sitting next

tyler: to christian slater i i've always kind of like it's always been unclear to me

tyler: whether or not she was a prostitute and i i assume she was and that's why she

tyler: kind of declined she's like oh no this guy's kind of a loser because he just

tyler: talks about comics fucking elvis and then going to going about fucking elvis like listen.

Kennan: I would never fuck a man but if elvis was in this room right now god his pants would be down i was like.

tyler: Is somebody.

Kennan: Here gay like that.

tyler: And unfortunately some like some pretty dated and offensive language throughout

tyler: the movie but yeah especially like in regards to that scene but in the.

Kennan: Movie theaters he's like oh the oriental and i'm sitting here i'm like.

tyler: What yeah it's.

Kennan: Like 92 93 i'm like they really say that yeah i don't know that's well.

Evan: Tarantino's kind of known for those kind.

tyler: Of uh kind of things yeah he.

Evan: Loves to drop the n-word in like every one of his movies.

Kennan: And the only guy that dropped the n-word in that entire movie uh was a white guy.

tyler: Yeah the very big yeah i think samuel jackson may have dropped a couple but

tyler: yeah Yeah, it was Drexel and Dennis Hopper. I think are the only two that said it.

Kennan: Yeah, the absurdity of Drexel. I think that was my favorite scene to be honest.

tyler: Fun fact, Gary Oldman agreed to that part just on a description of the character

tyler: without having read the script.

tyler: I think it was like Tony Scott just said, like described him as like,

tyler: you play a crazy man who like is white, but thinks he's black.

tyler: And Gary Oldman was like, sounds good. That's me. Gary Oldman just was like.

Evan: Yeah, dude. Gary Oldman is like one of the best actors. I agree.

tyler: I think he also has some questionable politics. I think he's like old school

tyler: Churchillian kind of guy. um but like but as far as acting like say if we go

tyler: if you want to separate the art from artists gary oldman's such a such a beast

tyler: like when it comes to throwing down no.

Evan: One plays like better bad guys.

tyler: For the most part there was that string of the 90s this um fifth element leon

tyler: where he's just like he's just this insane dracula dracula that's right like

tyler: like every other year in the 90s he was just like this insane character that

tyler: was just like wildly different and unrecognizable to the next one but.

Evan: Did you already say the professional.

tyler: Leon professional uh fifth element this and Dracula like we're all within like

tyler: a year or two apart like back to back to back to back to back and just like

tyler: it's just like Gary Oldman ate the 90s up.

Evan: Yeah, and then they got to give him the Batman movies later to, I don't know.

tyler: Yeah, to tone it down a little bit, I guess.

Evan: He's like, it's almost hard to see him not all in a different kind of makeup or something.

tyler: He played Churchill in Darkest Hour, and he was unrecognizable in that because he had the full fat suit.

Evan: That's true. Yeah, he kills it. But so here's a, tell me if this theory is crazy.

Evan: So the very opening scene where he's talking to the other woman and she rejects

Evan: him. is it possible that that was also hired by the boss but she's like i'm

Evan: not you're talking about elbows too much i'm not even going to do this.

tyler: That never occurred to me and i i think i think i would agree with that and

tyler: that's why shark cat's late to the theater maybe um because she got called in

tyler: last minute or something oh yeah i mean that's yeah i had never occurred to

tyler: me but i could totally buy that sure i'm going with that yeah let's say that yeah.

Evan: I i had never considered that before until like.

tyler: Yeah because maybe like maybe because that that was always that one always kind

tyler: of stuck with me as a very odd choice of like why is this girl in that bar and

tyler: so yeah that maybe makes sense that she was paid to be there and then she was

tyler: just like nah and then that's why later on after he goes to theater patricia

tyler: arquette walks in late and asks her to him to catch her up uh maybe because

tyler: she was supposed to you know that what the plan was at the bar the.

Kennan: First one i remember when he was talking to the first girl she's like you want

Kennan: me to take me to watch a kung fu movie he's like yeah he's like three of them.

tyler: She's like no yeah and it walks away and the first one's like i love kung fu movies yeah okay the.

Kennan: Second one coming in just like oh my god these are like my favorite.

tyler: And they were i think i feel like they were dressed fairly similarly they're

tyler: right like leopard print and stuff so i think it was i don't know i think there's

tyler: totally something yeah well.

Evan: Well and it would also make sense too as to maybe why patricia arquette knew

Evan: that he was at that specific movie theater watching the movies because she had

Evan: told the he tells the other woman.

tyler: Yeah the sunny chiba she calls the guys like i can't do this i'm.

Evan: Not doing it you know take your money or whatever.

tyler: Interjecting with another go go.

Evan: To this movie theater where he is.

tyler: Jack black filmed the scene he was the theater usher but the scene was cut no

tyler: way yeah oh man just to continue adding stack because yeah jack black was like

tyler: a bunch of cameos in the early 90s um before he kind of was doing a bunch.

Evan: Of uh tony scott.

tyler: Movies like.

Evan: You said in enemy.

tyler: Oh yeah later in this day yeah um but yeah so i guess apparently there's a scene

tyler: that was cut um which i don't think it exists anymore um of jack black as a

tyler: theater usher at that theater i.

Kennan: Have one more yeah.

Evan: Jack black did a bunch of weird movies i.

Kennan: Have one more question for you guys i it kind of threw me off like there's some

Kennan: parts in this movie that just kind of throw me off but uh you guys remember

Kennan: after they leave uh his dad's house and right before they leave um was our cat.

tyler: Patricia yeah.

Kennan: Patricia charquette she goes up to his dad.

tyler: And just making out with him i i i didn't know what to think of.

Kennan: That i just i i was so confused.

tyler: Yeah i don't what was that about is that like an american thing where like you like you kiss.

Kennan: The dad's dad on the lips like i don't.

tyler: Know i threw me off she's like not like peaches yeah that was a weird a weird

tyler: bit to leave in i i don't know if maybe that should have been left on the cutting

tyler: room floor i'm not sure but I don't know.

Evan: It's not even necessary really, except for that line, like the peaches line.

Evan: It's almost like that was the only way to get to that line.

tyler: Tarantino just kind of wanted that line. So he had to kind of shoehorn in a,

tyler: like a reason to get there in the end, you know?

Kennan: The actor's like, I'm only doing this part if I make it. Yeah.

tyler: Yeah. I don't, I don't really know. I think, you know, we'll just chalk that

tyler: out to Tarantino still kind of honing his craft in the early nineties or late

tyler: eighties whenever he actually wrote this script.

Kennan: I thought there was just something there. I don't know. Yeah.

Kennan: It's like, is this symbolic or something?

Kennan: Cause she's like, i'm very monogamous and then he starts making out with the

Kennan: dude's dad and i'm like dude if i saw my wife like making out with my dad i'd

Kennan: be like we're over like what are you doing i'm sure there's something you.

tyler: Can unpack there maybe i'm not sure.

Kennan: Is that like oh maybe.

Evan: Like his he has like sexual tensions.

Kennan: Of some sort.

tyler: I don't know i don't know man i got a weird guy coming up with nothing yeah

tyler: yeah he's he does have some you know weird proclivities and.

Evan: They i mean they really show also i was thinking of dennis hopper as like he

Evan: they talk about how they grew up you know very

Evan: poor you know even as a cop like you know you're not getting paid super well

Evan: in detroit probably but you know that's okay but i guess presumably he probably

Evan: drank and you know spent all their money but now he lives in a trailer next

Evan: to a train track i mean that is uh yeah and he's like in detroit like that's

Evan: the bottom of the because.

tyler: He's getting off work at like super early a.m so i assume it's just some kind

tyler: of overnight security guy um because his his um pat says something like it.

Kennan: Wasn't police yeah.

tyler: Yeah it wasn't police it was said something something security i forget the

tyler: name of the company it was like you know a mall or something Well.

Evan: Maybe they don't even have balls left to destroy at that time.

Kennan: Especially at night.

tyler: Yeah, just some security. So, yeah, he's just kind of also at the kind of outer

tyler: edges of poverty, but is now clean.

tyler: He mentions in the movie that he doesn't drink anymore, I guess,

tyler: presumably having gotten over his alcoholism or recovering from his alcoholism

tyler: that kind of led to their estrangement earlier in the timeline.

Evan: One of my other in that same scene with uh dennis hopper i think one of my favorite,

Evan: lines throughout that like after his little monologue and then he you know picks

Evan: up and he shoots him and i think uh christopher walken says i haven't killed

Evan: a guy since 1984 i just think.

tyler: That's yeah i.

Evan: Don't know what it was about that line but i just started just cracks.

tyler: Yeah i think it just goes to the fact like of how much he

tyler: got under his skin like canons that early like why he told that story and just

tyler: like it just really pissed christopher walken's character off um kakadi kirkody

tyler: i forget his name but um yeah it's yeah i thought that was great too i think

tyler: everyone in that scene just just really delivered and that story in particular

tyler: because we're walking i think in particular is just like really great in that in that movie oh.

Evan: Wait but did you did you um can i say what your favorite uh scene was.

tyler: Yeah the very beginning scene.

Kennan: Where he's uh talking to dra uh

Kennan: draxel yeah oh you said that right yeah i thought it was that draxel scene.

Evan: Also is great the.

tyler: Lamp throwing the lamp back and forth and that's kind of that actually that

tyler: goes back to what I was talking about that like confidence of Swagger where

tyler: he's like I'm not sitting because I'm not going to be here that long I'm not

tyler: eating because I'm not hungry and I'm not watching the movie because I've seen

tyler: it before and he lists like the movie and like the credits and stuff you know

tyler: and I think that just that plays into his like that false kind of bravado that

tyler: he brings where he like he may not be feeling it,

tyler: but he on the outside he shows it you know yeah.

Evan: He keeps like knocking the like you said the like the the lampshade back and

Evan: just the whole monologue that drexel has too where he's you know he was like

Evan: you didn't sit down because you know you know if you sat down and had an egg

Evan: roll we'd you know be we'd be chatting it's uh.

tyler: Yeah just.

Kennan: Drexel there's that.

tyler: Character like what were they thinking like what is that he has only like one eye the.

Kennan: Other one has like it's cataracts.

tyler: Completely yeah i think i read somewhere maybe i don't want to like totally butcher

tyler: this i don't want to misremember it but i guess gary oldman was having a hard time finding um

tyler: you know the the delivery the the voice for that and

tyler: it wasn't working and tony scott kind of wasn't feeling it and i guess they like somebody

tyler: delivered food to gary oldman's trailer uh and he had this voice and gary was

tyler: like wait wait say this line and he showed him the lines and the guy like told

tyler: him how to say the lines and it was just like some you know poor detroit black

tyler: kid i guess and it's like him and Gary Oldman kind of work together to really

tyler: workshop Drexel the character.

tyler: I don't know how much truth is there.

Kennan: I know I'm giving Oldman fucking a lot.

tyler: I don't know how much truth is there, but I don't know.

Kennan: My friends are never going to believe this one.

Evan: Oh man, you should have parlayed that in to be like a consultant on some movies or something.

tyler: Yeah, get your SAG card.

Kennan: His LinkedIn is going to be like pizza delivery driver consultant.

tyler: Gary Oldman's consultant. to yeah i.

Evan: Would i would i would pay to see a movie where gary oldman is in the entire

Evan: movie as that character although i don't think it would probably work it's almost

Evan: like it's perfect and it's just.

tyler: That was supposedly the characters fit perfectly that was

tyler: like in talks to happen yeah early i guess like around this

tyler: time there was talks of a spinoff that was just drexel and it just kind

tyler: of never materialized um which is kind of a shame but

tyler: i mean that there's a lot of those stories of like they're supposed to be the

tyler: vega brothers where vincent

tyler: and vic vega um john travolta and um i'm blanking on his name what's vick vega

tyler: from reservoir dogs that he cuts off the ear what the hell's his name michael

tyler: madsen michael madsen and john travolta they're supposed to be a spin-off movie

tyler: where the two of them go on adventures and like heists and stuff there's a bunch

tyler: of like would-be tarantino movies canceled.

Kennan: So fast these days that would not flow anymore some old white guy saying the n-word i.

tyler: Mean i don't know django just just came out so faith late was after there was something else that.

Evan: There's something apparently where Drexel Spivey is linked to Reservoir Dogs.

Evan: Apparently, one of them mentioned someone named Marcellus Spivey,

Evan: and it's supposed to be like his brother, perhaps.

tyler: Huh.

Evan: But I don't know if it's...

tyler: I don't know.

Evan: Or maybe it's... Wait, hold on. What is it?

tyler: Well, Mr. Wolf in Pulp Fiction references like having worked with Alabama,

tyler: somebody named Alabama.

Evan: Oh, that's right. Yeah, he loves to do those little... Yeah, just little teases.

tyler: I don't know if they're actually like, you know, it's kind of like the MCU shit

tyler: before the MCU shit. Tarantino just linking all of his movies together in a shared universe.

Evan: Oh, this is it. So it's not, it's not, it's not. So someone in the movie reservoir,

Evan: his name is Marcellus Spivey, which would be the mixing together,

Evan: um, Drexel Spivey and Marcellus Waltz.

tyler: Okay.

Evan: Well, he like took the names and he stretched them out.

tyler: I heard somewhere along the line and I couldn't find any kind of corroboration for it.

tyler: This is an old fact I heard a long time ago was that he sold,

tyler: Tarantino sold the rights to um true romance to fund reservoir dogs it.

Evan: That's true i've heard that and the same thing with um he sold that and um the

Evan: other one we're talking about natural board killers.

tyler: Okay yeah to kind of to finance both of.

Evan: Those word is to make it.

tyler: To finance reservoir dogs and so maybe it's just kind of an homage to his other

tyler: characters well those reservoir dogs was before pulp fiction wasn't it so maybe

tyler: i don't know i don't know the timeline of when he wrote those scripts i think um Um.

Evan: I think, um, Reservoir Dogs, like 92 and Pulp Fiction was 94.

tyler: Speaking of Tarantino, let's take, let's check in with Kanan.

tyler: Uh, how, how many Tarantino movies have you seen?

Kennan: God, I can't, I don't know.

tyler: I think there are nine, including True Romance, eight that he's directed, I want to say.

Kennan: I've seen True Romance. Glorious Bastards is a Tarantino movie.

tyler: Yeah, with Brad Pitt.

Kennan: Name the other ones and I'll tell you if I've seen them.

tyler: Uh, let's see if I can go in order. Jackie Brown.

Evan: Kill Bill.

tyler: Yeah, Kill Bill 1 and 2.

Kennan: I've seen Kill Bill a long time ago. Jackie Brown? No.

tyler: Reservoir Dogs? No. Pulp Fiction?

Kennan: I think I saw that when I was a child or something. I can't remember.

tyler: Kill Bill 1, Kill Bill 2, Django Unchained?

Kennan: I want to see it, but I've never seen it.

tyler: Hateful Eight?

Kennan: Never seen it uh.

tyler: Once upon a time in hollywood i wanted to.

Kennan: See it but never seen it.

tyler: Did i forget one i think that's everything death death proof okay never seen it they're all which.

Evan: Is actually the only one i have not seen my.

tyler: My brother-in-law.

Kennan: Is a very big fan.

tyler: So he probably would have seen all the tarantino yeah he probably would have

tyler: seen all of those tarantino's also a guy with very questionable politics um

tyler: he's well not let's let me rephrase that he has normal politics except having

tyler: come out for like pretty strong support of israel so well.

Evan: Plus he'd also like you know abused uma thurman on uh the kill bill.

tyler: Oh i didn't even know that stuff.

Evan: Yeah he made her do a stunt in the car which ended up like breaking her fibula

Evan: or something i forget what she ended up getting hurt like he made her do this

Evan: stunt that she didn't want to do because he liked the way her hair would blow in the uh in the.

tyler: Shot and.

Evan: Then she like crashed the car and then you know.

tyler: Real um like what's his name kubrick real crew kubrick vibes of like what he did uh what's her face um,

tyler: um what's her name in uh and shining uh what's her name i know yeah yeah just

tyler: borderline just actual torture yeah well.

Evan: That that movie funny you mentioned that is the scene there's one scene in the

Evan: movie where he made shelly devol do the scene like 113.

tyler: Times which.

Evan: Is now the guinness record.

tyler: Yeah where she's like actually like frayed and crying because he wanted her

tyler: like just on edge and just shaking from like you know exhaustion and crying

tyler: and just fatigued and so that that was the look he was going for.

tyler: So he artificially manufactured that look by just... But it was more than that.

tyler: He had instructed all of the cast and crew to just completely berate her and

tyler: talk shit to her and just ignore her and just be awful to her.

tyler: And so she was just in a corner. Her hair was falling out. She started chain smoking.

tyler: She really didn't act again after that movie because of her treatment by just

tyler: the cast and crew and Stanley Kubrick as the director. Just absolute torture.

Evan: That also reminds me. I saw some fact. I think it was in...

Evan: somewhere when i was doing research for true romance apparently tony scott during

Evan: a number of scenes with patricia arquette would slap her in the face before yeah i read.

tyler: That too but i read that that was like at the request of patricia arquette.

Evan: Right right i meant that was the caveat to say it wasn't like he was yeah yeah

Evan: she was like she was trying to get like.

tyler: Jazzed and just like in that mode of like that a level of like abuse and just

tyler: like tension or whatever so he would just backhand her or whatever or i don't

tyler: know if it was backhand but like you know just give her a slap before each scene

tyler: to get her just get her going.

Evan: Yeah and since you mentioned that as like your favorite scene i think as

Evan: i'm as we're talking about it might be maybe not my favorite but

Evan: very close to it it's almost like the note that i wrote down when

Evan: i was watching it is sort of like you know gandolfini could

Evan: represent this you know idea of capitalism and it's keeps he just keeps beating

Evan: and crushing her and crushing her and she just you know keeps getting up because

Evan: she literally has to sort of have to you know it's like if she doesn't yeah

Evan: so it's almost like she has no other there's no other way to fight you know

Evan: the system without you know not getting knocked down yeah that's like i.

tyler: Think probably the most visceral like The final shootout is violent,

tyler: but I think that scene in particular is just the most raw and visceral.

tyler: Just her screams and just her bludgeoning him.

tyler: It's just intense. I think it's just a really, really well done scene.

Evan: Especially when he throws her in the shower and the glass shards are flying around like that.

Evan: I'm surprised she wasn't more badly hurt. Just her face. Like,

Evan: oh, I got hit with a basketball.

tyler: Yeah, that's what I was about to say.

Kennan: It's like the guy believed it.

tyler: Well, I mean, I don't think he really did. Well, Michael Rappaport did because

tyler: his character was an idiot.

tyler: but uh yeah but donna was i think that was the thing that donna would saw right

tyler: through it like he was just like what are you doing to her it was like oh it

tyler: was a basketball he just kind of looked at him like he was an idiot you know

tyler: like obviously it's not a basketball.

Evan: Actually you know what i'm going to change my favorite scene my favorite scene

Evan: is when the um what is his name um elliot the uh like the other actor.

tyler: Guy is.

Evan: Driving in his car and the cocaine just.

tyler: Gets thrown across his face i don't know who that actor is but he really he

tyler: was really good i I don't think I've ever seen him before or since,

tyler: but he crushed it in that.

tyler: His scenes with Tom Sizemore and Chris Penn, we haven't even talked about Tom

tyler: Sizemore and Chris Penn yet, but they're great in this, and his scenes with

tyler: them are really funny, and his scenes with his subservience to Donovitz,

tyler: which is juxtaposed to his big dick swagger with Michael Rapaport and Christian

tyler: Slater of how he coats, which is depending on who he's in the room with.

tyler: I think he really did a great job, and I don't know that guy,

tyler: and i i vaguely recognize him but i couldn't tell you anything else he's done but he was great he.

Evan: Actually it's funny you said i had just watched the new beverly hills movie beverly.

tyler: Hills movie and.

Evan: He's he yeah he's in that briefly and he's also in other beverly hills cop movies i think two.

tyler: And three the first one maybe i don't know if i should revisit those the third.

Evan: One is terrible do not.

tyler: Okay well i've been the second one's okay i've been wanting to watch this new

tyler: one because i've heard you know kind of

tyler: generally positive things about it because i guess everybody's back um paul

tyler: riser and judge reinhold everybody's back so i'm like okay shit well maybe i

tyler: should check that out but i've only ever seen the first one it's fun so i was

tyler: debating going back and watching them all or just cutting to this one i don't know but yeah you don't.

Evan: Really need to see the other ones to be honest i think the first one is enough

Evan: because they do a lot of like little callbacks and they actually like i don't want to ruin.

tyler: It they like.

Evan: Make fun of the fact that the other ones are terrible.

tyler: Oh okay that's fun maybe i will just check it out i'm flying in a couple days

tyler: so i'll probably you know that's a good plane movie i think but yeah i agree

tyler: i think but you're right though he killed he killed that actor killed it bronson.

Evan: Pinoch bronson prenote pinoch.

tyler: Okay great whatever wherever that guy is up to now he did

tyler: a really great job yeah because just like yeah when he was at the the

tyler: um prior to the roller coaster he was

tyler: just like you know totally just like in command of that you know

tyler: he was the guy with all the cards post roller coaster it was christian slater

tyler: and then when you see him with donovitz he's just like this like um you know

tyler: cowering kind of like totally subservient to donovitz just like while he's in

tyler: that room he has a master and And it's just like that actor just really like

tyler: conveyed that, I think, just in a really good way.

Evan: Oh, man. That actor was on Perfect Strangers for 150 episodes.

Evan: He was the leading actor in Perfect Strangers.

tyler: Okay.

Evan: Which I've never actually seen.

tyler: But okay.

Kennan: He was also on Kung Fu and Titties, I think, more importantly.

tyler: Okay.

Evan: You guys had a checkered career.

tyler: All right. A storied career. Yeah. I don't know.

Evan: I mean.

tyler: I don't know. There's just everybody in this is just like from every like we

tyler: kind of briefly mentioned Tom Sizemore and Chris Penn.

tyler: also dead Chris Penn shout out to rest in peace like

tyler: Chris Penn um Sean Penn's brother I believe and everyone just does a great job

tyler: except for fucking Michael Rapaport but again I would I argue that I I am letting

tyler: my distaste of Michael Rapaport cloud my judgment I think as an actor in this

tyler: he was fine I think I think he was the weakest but I think he was still fine

tyler: I think there's some certain who's the.

Evan: Other detective oh Chris Penn.

tyler: Yeah and Tom the other one was size yeah yeah which i think they're yeah i know

tyler: i think at least one of them is the same kind of detective in enemy the state

tyler: and in the state there's a lot of parallels with this movie it's just there's no fantasy who's.

Kennan: That that was one of the other detectives right kevin corrigan it was like the more.

tyler: Latino based.

Kennan: One but yeah no those cops i think

Kennan: they could have found better actors for those i that

Kennan: they were they're not bad like they'll do me wrong they're not not as bad

Kennan: as rapaport i thought rapaport did a not a great job to be honest with you even

Kennan: though i don't it's not about me not liking his politics it's just that like

Kennan: in between scenes of him saying his lines or acting his face kind of like turns

Kennan: off as if he was not acting anymore if that makes any sense yeah.

Evan: It's his it i think it's also i i would love to have remembered what i thought

Evan: of it before you know knowing what he's like if i he just seemed like just kind

Evan: of like a like a dummy i don't know like he just it didn't uh maybe that was

Evan: like maybe that was what it was It was meant to be.

Evan: Maybe he was trying to just be so spineless and goofy and whatever that it-

Evan: He's just not there. It was like the opposite.

Evan: Yeah. Or something like that. But yeah, it's, um.

Kennan: I know a lot of actors take that like cadence of, uh, becoming the person and

Kennan: then just enveloping themselves so much with that character that they like every,

Kennan: at every moment they become that, you know, that personality.

Kennan: Like I know Jim Carrey goes crazy with it. Like he spends like his entire being,

Kennan: being that character even by himself.

Evan: Yeah. Yeah. Like going so deep into it. What's the guy?

Evan: Um, um joaquin phoenix is like that apparently like he does interviews on tv

Evan: shows when he's preparing for a movie and he's in character of that movie he's

Evan: like i'm not going out of this character like it's oh yeah that you know that's

Evan: commitment that's commitment but it's also i don't think that michael rapaport

Evan: was going that deep though he doesn't seem like good enough actor.

Kennan: Yeah and that that's the thing i just don't think he did a very good job but

Kennan: he also he looked very young so i think he might have just been an um early

Kennan: emerging actor perhaps i don't know.

Evan: Yeah let me see what he's been in this is his third movie and the other one

Evan: seemed like was even lesser roles it seems like he's actually been way more

Evan: movies than i realized a ton of them actually he's.

Kennan: Always a lot like he's always a side character i really saw like.

Evan: The first time i.

Kennan: Think i've seen him in like a movie or a tv series uh where he was like one

Kennan: of the main characters was uh i was that one that was pretty recent uh with

Kennan: with the sun being like severely autistic.

Evan: Oh i know what you're talking about um yeah that show was pretty good yeah the first.

Kennan: Season was fantastic uh the second season i think it was a whole different uh

Kennan: either director or writer and i just lost it on me.

Evan: Atypical correct.

Kennan: That is what it's called atypical.

Evan: Yeah i can't i just look in there i think i watched the whole thing but i remember

Evan: the last two seasons just also being and just like i just want to know what

Evan: happens fair enough fair enough i i was sort of like i don't know why i invested

Evan: so much sometimes i'll nowadays if i watch it like a season and i'm like start

Evan: a second season it's not good i'm just i'm out yeah.

Kennan: 100 and specifically with michael rapaport like once i found out that he was

Kennan: like you know an israeli a dick sucker i was just like yeah i'm not i can't

Kennan: Now, I can't watch anything with him in the movie without having some sort of conflict,

Kennan: because I'm constantly thinking about politics instead of just watching the damn movie.

Kennan: At least in this one, he was very young, so I give him the benefit of the doubt there.

tyler: It's worse than just being pro-Israel because a lot of,

tyler: celebrities are pro-israel because they have to be and like whereas i don't think that's like

tyler: respectable i'm not giving them a pass for that it's at least somewhat understandable

tyler: yeah but michael rapaport is like genocidal he's like out of the way he's like

tyler: but he's like way over the top of like we need to like exterminate all hamas

tyler: exterminate gaza like he is like well.

Kennan: There's also a video of him like literally saying hey if i say these keywords

Kennan: you guys have to pay me extra and he's in a hotel and somebody's literally filming

Kennan: him and then he like literally goes to charge the person he's like hey don't

Kennan: fucking film me blah blah.

tyler: This is a real piece of shit like.

Kennan: Yeah i was just selling himself.

Evan: Yeah well like so i was gonna the only thing i was gonna mention about you were

Evan: talking about the cops like being you know maybe kind of not great but in some

Evan: ways i almost kind of like that because you it's not pro cop like i don't think

Evan: even there being cops in it as cop again because most they all get killed right.

tyler: Everyone's killed yeah uh almost survives and then the last second but jarquette shoots and.

Kennan: She should have.

tyler: That's or maybe i forget which one it was got chris pin because chris pin went

tyler: to execute the bodyguard yeah who yelled that he didn't like cops and then it's.

Kennan: Like this is for whatever his.

tyler: Name was cody and then and then at that moment pretty sure i can't yeah

tyler: she picks up the gun like sidearm and then finally kills him the final cody

tyler: i don't know uh but yeah i agree with you it's not very like pro cop because

tyler: like they directly put like this not innocent bystander elliot uh like in harm's

tyler: way and kind of like joking when clarence pulls a gun on the elevator they're

tyler: like joking about whether or not he's going to get, whether or not he's going to, um,

tyler: be executed by Clarence, by Christian Slater. And so the, and they're kind of

tyler: just like not doing anything about it.

tyler: Like just laughing on the sideline while their CI kind of is in mortal danger, which is, you know.

Kennan: He's not going to kill him.

tyler: Yeah. And then they're like, kind of like almost like taking bets or whether

tyler: or not they're, they're informants about to get executed and they,

tyler: they kind of seemingly don't care.

tyler: So yeah, I think it doesn't definitely, it definitely doesn't portray the police

tyler: as like, it's not very pro police.

Evan: No, no. I mean, it's kind of, they're just kind of on the side,

Evan: you know, they're, and also like the conversation they have with their their

Evan: chief like to do the wire and everything it's very like they're talking about

Evan: how they want to get credit for this i mean yeah they don't care about anything except getting credit.

tyler: Like that's all they like you know careerists.

Evan: Exactly they don't care actually to get the coke off the you know the street

Evan: yeah they don't care about that yeah.

tyler: They just want the bus for their career yeah.

Evan: Yeah those uh but yeah but i guess as we were saying like they're every pretty

Evan: near every single little bit i think the only one person we haven't talked about

Evan: it's brad pitt sort of lackadaisical stone in his first range you know yeah.

Kennan: That threw me off to be honest it's.

tyler: Like oh this is long hair.

Kennan: It's like is that.

tyler: Brad pitt yeah i just love that he's randomly in that because i think he had

tyler: already done i think he had done thelma and louise at this point like he had

tyler: done like he had had more leading roles at this point it's kind of unclear like

tyler: why he would just agree to do this i mean i don't know for fun just for fun yeah his hat fun.

Evan: He done yeah done thomas louise he done um legends.

tyler: Of the fall.

Evan: Probably a river runs through it i think so the.

Kennan: Dude's always just look the same though yeah like i looked at him like well

Kennan: his face it just it looks the same it's just i'm a.

tyler: Big fan uh and.

Evan: It's the same kids it's the same look as an interview with a vampire right he's

Evan: got the long hair christian slater movie interview the vampire christian.

tyler: Slater was the uh the interviewer.

Evan: That's right he was the reporter or the journalist or whatever it must

Evan: be one of those like these are what could be those those things where like someone knew

Evan: him and it's like oh you should you know he wants to be in this movie or

Evan: he so i don't know that these these things all favors and then he then he like

Evan: had a i mean his well we don't have to go down brad pitt but then i was just

Evan: looking at his uh just got his not discography his filmography he went seven

Evan: twelve monkeys sleeper devil's own seven years in tibet meet joe black fight

Evan: club snatch all in a row yeah.

tyler: He had a really good mid 90s and early 2000s i.

Evan: Mean even going back where everyone's.

tyler: Through and legend of the fall are both great too like he he crushed.

Evan: The entire 90s.

tyler: Yeah i think he didn't really he.

Evan: Didn't really miss for.

tyler: The first like that 15 year stretch i don't remember seven years in tibet being

tyler: great but i haven't seen it in.

Evan: 20 years it's also kind of i think it's pretty anti-ccp propaganda yeah yeah

Evan: i actually read an article how it's like horribly propaganda yeah.

tyler: I have i haven't seen it since like becoming a communist but i imagine it's

tyler: probably very anti-communist i'll have to revisit that.

Evan: Yeah i i don't know that i would actually revisit it but i remember seeing and

Evan: than thinking, reading some article being like, this actually is a super problematic

Evan: movie that no one should ever see.

tyler: Yeah, fair enough.

Kennan: What about Mr. and Mrs. Smith? When did that come out? Like 2004?

tyler: Yeah, somewhere around 2002, 2003 maybe.

Evan: Plus all the Ocean's Eleven movies. Oh, yeah.

tyler: Yeah, the first couple of those were pretty good.

Kennan: I know.

tyler: And then he went Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Dude, Troy. Bring it full circle,

tyler: come back to Tarantino. Troy was bad, though, man.

Kennan: I love Troy.

tyler: Oh, my God.

Kennan: I love Troy.

tyler: He's so bad.

Kennan: I have an archaeology degree, okay? I'm very into that sort of like- I hate

Kennan: swords and sandals movies.

tyler: Dude. Did you see the trailer for Gladiator 2? I think that's like- No.

Kennan: They should just leave it at one Gladiator.

tyler: The trailer for Gladiator 2 just dropped, and that's like the joke in movies

tyler: where it's It's like the whole like Tropic Thunder, Tug Speedman,

tyler: like making all these sequels of like that's the trope and they did it.

tyler: It's like a parody of itself by making Gladiator 2 with Pedro Pascal,

tyler: Denzel Washington, and I forget who the third lead is, but I don't know.

tyler: I just hate that they remade that movie or made a sequel.

Evan: I know. I love the first one. It's like one of my favorite movies of all time.

tyler: Yeah, I'll say I don't like Swords and Sandals movies except that Gladiator

tyler: because that was really well made.

Kennan: Gladiator was fantastic. I mean, it had Hans Zimmer in it too.

tyler: Hans zimmer yeah but.

Kennan: I i the storyline was quite long but it was fantastic i i.

tyler: Really like.

Kennan: How it just started out with battle like anything that just starts out with

Kennan: like some crazy ass battle i'm into like.

tyler: Historically wildly inaccurate though like the tactics it's a movie yeah.

Evan: Joaquin phoenix kills.

tyler: It like i love joaquin phoenix absolutely and uh what's his

tyler: name tommy flanagan i like him a lot too um the the

tyler: guy from like sons of anarchy with the two scars uh the the irish actor he's

tyler: in peaky blinders he's oh yeah he's in gladiator he's in he's in a lot of stuff

tyler: he was like the general's kind of right-hand man kind of guy he's um he's i'm

tyler: a big fan of tommy flanagan that was a big fun i was big son of anarchy years

tyler: man was napoleon any good i never saw it probably not but i didn't see it i.

Evan: Heard it's like there's parts of it that are okay but then as like a as a whole

Evan: you know spectacle wise good movie wise.

tyler: Yeah and i don't know apple plus is the one streaming service i don't have so

tyler: i'm like well probably never see that one yeah all right well anything else

tyler: to say about true romance we skip anything i.

Evan: Know yeah i was.

tyler: Thinking i.

Evan: Was about to say like is there any any little trivia facts that you had.

tyler: I was just going to drop the one about brad pitt the hat he wore he found that

tyler: on the venice beach um like boardwalk and

tyler: he just he just found it and he took it home and washed it and that was

tyler: what he wore for the movie um just very like beach bummy kind

tyler: of guy yeah i don't know i don't know i mean there's a

tyler: lot of just random trivia about this movie that it's just like i just

tyler: i don't know i just i like i said just to kind of like come full circle to

tyler: what i said at the beginning i i think i agree it is a very kind of

tyler: just like a cliche crime keeper but the whimsy and

tyler: that kind of fantasy elements and the chemistry in particular

tyler: like the score and just everything kind of comes together to make this

tyler: something else and something better than than it should be then it like by all

tyler: counts if you describe just the plot you know 90s movie christmas later patricia