It's a crowded one this time, as Sarah chats with all four 'Bute Shepherdesses'; namely Emma Gray, Cathinka Paterson, Lisa Gast and Sarah Farrell.

These amazing women have come together to run an annual four-day island sheepdog event, the Trials of Bute.

They talk us through what it's like living and working on Bute, their wellbeing tips and insights, and the challenges faced by people seeking opportunity on the island.

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Read more about Farmstrong's Foundations of Mental Health programme: https://www.farmstrongscotland.org.uk/news-events/farmstrong-scotland-launches-new-mental-strength-programme-in-response-to-survey-findings Contact us to find out more or book a session: [email protected]

Welcome to Blether Together from Farmstrong, Scotland. I'm Sarah Stephen, thank you very much for being with us.

Joining us today are the Bute shepherdesses, otherwise known as Emma Gray, Lisa Gast, Cathinka Patterson and Sarah Farrell. They talk us through what it's like living in Bute.

Sometimes there are some wobbles and some struggles and challenges to being on an island, but actually there's a piece of me that every time I come across the water, if I've been working on the mainland or something, it just feels like I'm coming back to my holiday home on Bute, There's no bad views.

How it felt to move there.

I opened the curtains and it was the most amazing, gorgeous view. It was blue sea and mountains and I just fell in love instantly.

And also the challenges faced by people seeking opportunity on the island.

It could be 10 years before we see another tenancy handed back, another farmer retiring before a new farming family can set foot on this island and make a life.

What do you think it might sound like to have farmers, five very chatty women brought together in a podcast? Keep listening to find out. Well, welcome, welcome, Lisa, welcome Sarah, welcome Emma and welcome Kathinka.

We tend to do a wee bit of an icebreaker on Blether Together and I have a list of rapid fire questions. It's normally one to one, so we'll just see how this goes. I mean, anything could happen.

First of all, let's just go round, round the room, so to speak. And Lisa, let's start with you. If you can just sort of tell us in a bit of a nutshell who are, what you do and where you're coming from today.

I'm Lisa. I work at Scalpsy Farm on the Isle of Bute. I used to work as a shepherd, but now I find myself pretty much training dogs all day long.

How lovely. Well, you've got a big smile on your face. You obviously enjoy it. Sarah, over to you.

So I'm probably a bit of the odd one out. So I, I'm actually a therapist and I just have done a bit of work with Lisa and a bit of work with Emma in terms of farming and sheep and sheepdogs.

Are you located on Bute, Sarah?

Yeah, so I live on the Isle of Bute, moved up here several years ago.

I think there was kind of like a mass migration of all of us to the Isle of Bute where Cathinka, Emma and I kind of all moved up about the same time and like kind of descended upon the island and Kind of gathered around where Lisa had shown us, you know, this amazing place and yeah, so I live on the Isle of Bute.

Well, I bet they didn't know what had hit them when the four of you arrived on the island. Emma, you go for it. I mean, obviously we know you well from a bit of telly, but perhaps for the listeners, just explain who you are and what you do.

Yeah. My name is Emma Gray and I have lived on the Isle of Bute from for the last six years with my husband and son.

We run a farm here of nearly 700 acres and we train sheepdogs pretty much same as Lisa for a living. Moved here because we knew Lisa and the farm came up to let and I've loved being here ever since.

Thanks, Emma. Okay, Cathinka, last but not least.

Yeah, so my name is Cathinka. I also live on the Isle of Bute. We moved here six years ago. We farm, we have sheep and cattle and we have some sheepdogs as well.

So we train them as well. And yeah, that's about what we do here. I live right on the south end of the island.

Oh, well, it's great to have you all with us. So I'm just gonna dive into the rapid fire questions as I see you on my screen. I'll just go around clockwise so it's in no particular order.

And these are randomly selected, so just whatever lands with you, lands with you. Okay. Lisa, what's the first thing you do in the morning?

I try. I try and get my toddler dressed. I know it sounds really easy, but it's not.

It's so hard.

That's fine. We can all relate to that. Emma, is your bed made right now?

It is. It is, remarkably. It's not usually, but. Yeah, I got the easiest question that was like a yes, no question.

Cathinka, I. What do you wish you learned sooner?

Oh, probably so many things what I wished I learned sooner. I don't know, maybe. Maybe I wished I kind of learned more about sheepdogs sooner, but it's hard to say. Yeah.

Lisa, do you like clothes shopping?

Hate it. Absolutely hate it.

Okay. Sarah, do you think that people can change?

Oh, absolutely, 100%. That's kind of my whole career, so.

I certainly hope so.

I'm just trying to find a really deep one for Emma now I'm under pressure. Emma, what do you think people misunderstand about you?

Oh, Jesus, no, I prefer the bad one, I think. You know what I hear a lot is because I've been on telly, people think we get loads paid loads of money for it.

They're always, they're always saying that, oh, that's the telly paid for that and you don't get any money.

Okay, good to know. Cathinka, what's one thing you wish you knew at age 19?

Oh, what? I wish I knew how good my life would be.

Well, that's a lovely way to finish the rapid fire questions. Thank you for being game, ladies. I appreciate that. Oh, I mean, where do I start? The four of you landed on Butte.

Sarah, you said sort of at the same time. So I just love to know what took you all individually there.

Emma, you mentioned the farm, but it'd be lovely just to understand why each of you went to Bute. What was the draw?

I think, I do think Lisa was a catalyst. I think we probably wouldn't move there had we not known her or hadn't been to the island.

So that was initially, but I think because we'd been to the island and seen what it was like, it's like this hidden gem and I think its beauty and its community is a massive draw. I think we meet so many people who come onto the island for the first time.

They spend the first day looking around and then the second day trying to buy a house.

I mean, there must have been quite a few wobbles, Emma.

I mean, when you first went having, you know, been where you had been and, and you know, to make that step, I mean, were there wobbles and what were those wobbles?

Yeah, I would say we wobbled for the first three years, financially, emotionally, the whole works. What were those wobbles? Oh, there's not enough time left to tell you about all the wobbles, but obviously it's moving.

It was hard for us to move away from family. That was a big one.

And we had a young child and we wondered how life is going to be totally different to him growing up on an island as opposed to growing up on the mainland. And then obviously we're all really competitive sheepdog trials.

People really want to be involved in that and it's much more difficult to do off the island. So all of those things kind of impacted on the wobbles, I suppose, but I think, you know, the community kind of makes up for, for that, like tenfold.

I mean, Cathinka is often said that when people do move in from elsewhere, especially in rural communities, you hope that it's always going to be a welcoming, but it's not always the case. And I just wondered what your experience was of Landing on Bute and what sort of welcome you got?

We got a really good welcome. Like a lot of people here. I found anyway, that, like, most people here were really, really, like, keen on new people coming.

And I found as well that, like, the community kind of just wrapped around us and, like, engaged in us and, like, what we were doing. And I'm a very social person too, so I just really enjoyed meeting new people and seeing what they were up to.

And because we have the kids as well, it's really nice to just have, like, that community around us.

And, Lisa, for you, obviously, I know you've got a little one that, you know, you're talking about dressing a toddler, so, you know, how, how. I mean, was it. Was it seamless for you or did you know what were the challenges when you first arrived?

I came across on a stormy day and I. It was raining and you couldn't see the hand in front of your eyes and it was really, really rough.

And when I woke up the next day in the farmhouse, I applied for the shepherding job for. I opened the curtains and it was the most amazing, gorgeous view. It was blue sea and mountains and just. I just fell in love instantly.

And I prayed so hard I would get the job. It was. Yeah, it was absolute dream of a lifetime.

I've been quite an adventurous spirit to take you there in the. In the first place. I mean, was it just a case of, right, I'll put a pin in the map and see where it takes me.

I was working in the Borders first for a year and a half and then I worked in County Durham for a little bit and that was just a temporary lambing job. And just after that, I heard about this job. I didn't even know where it was, to be honest with you.

A friend of mine drove me up and I had no idea it was an island. I had no idea where it was. I was completely oblivious to where I was going.

Wee while now and, and, and, and would you say. Would you. Would you now call it home?

Absolutely, absolutely. I'm never leaving.

Yeah.

And Sarah, for you, what was. What was the pool of or what was the draw for you to island life?

Do you know, it was. We came up. I came up on holiday, you Booked.

The wrong place, remember?

I know. So my friends had said that they wanted to go to Aaron and. And we were trying to find a holiday let. But they'd asked so late.

It was about July or something, and we were like, well, we can't find anywhere. And then all of a sudden this place popped up and it's like, oh, it's kind of close, so we'll go there.

And it ended up being Lisa's farmhouse and we went and unfortunately, you know, we just really loved it and, you know, we got on really well with Lisa and Ian and just fell in love. And then poor Lisa got stuck with us because we just kept coming back up again and again and again. And I just thought, you know what?

I would love a chance to just be here forever. And. And then there's a bit of a. There was a thing like, wait a second, am I going to be spoiling my, like, holiday spot?

Like, what will it feel like when I live there versus when I'm on holiday?

And like Emma said, you know, sometimes there are some wobbles and some struggles and challenges to being on an island, but actually, do you know what the benefits and the beauty of it and the community, There's a piece of me that every time I come across the water, if I've been working on the mainland or something, it just feels like I'm coming back to my holiday home. And it's so easy. They say, like, on Butte, there's no bad views.

I mean, it's a lovely sentiment, Sarah. And I've been to Bute and I know it fairly well and it is a stunning island.

But I'm just thinking of Lisa coming from, you know, Central Europe and deciding that, you know, Scotland was going to be home, you, as you said, forever.

And I don't know who would like to give me an impression for those listeners who haven't been to Butte and perhaps are listening as to us from, you know, the far end of Scotland and haven't had the chance to visit the beautiful island, let's say. Emma, tell me about Bute as a community, sort of. What if you had to describe, but to somebody who'd never been there, how would you describe it?

I think it's got everything. It's got, you know, it's the Highland boundary fault, so half of the islands classed as the Highlands and the other half's the Lowlands.

So you've got absolutely everything there.

You've got the kind of rugged, rough landscape and the hills and cliffs and mountains, but then you've also Got the gentle side, which is like the grassy fields where the dairy farms are. It's been a really popular tourist destination in the past in the sort of Victorian times.

And I think that was a time where there was a lot of investment in the town and I think the Victorians had that absolutely off pat. Like everything is beautifully made, it's all really decorative and just gorgeous and I think you can still see that shining through the town.

It's a bit tired now, but it's kind of like stepping into a bit of a museum.

You go back in time to a time where things were kind of more beautiful rather than the sort of the modernist way now where it's quite simple and straight, so.

Well, of course. Well, I'm a Weegee, so I remember the Waverley and everybody going doon the water. And of course you've got award winning loos as well, don't you?

Yeah, they are, they are.

But that's where the, you know, the phrase you say, I'm, I'm steaming or I'm going to get steaming, comes from the Waverly steamer, because you could drink alcohol on the steamer and come across to the island, whereas you couldn't in a lot of other places.

So.

And the Waverly steamer is still a really, really popular part of Bute and people still use it and it's really great for the, for the town and for the island. Brings in a lot of tourists all the time.

Of course it does. Yeah. And I, and of course I would. I've never used the term I'm steaming, just for the record. No, but I think I'm thinking about that.

And that probably gives the island vibrancy, which is attractive to young families like yourselves. I mean, you've obviously very, you know, great minds think alike.

You were drawn together and you've created this fantastic committee organizing the trials of Bute.

I don't know who wants to jump in and tell me a bit about that, but Cathinka, I'll come to you and maybe you can tell me a bit about this trials of Bute.

Yeah, so we kind of. When we moved to the island, there's only kind of one sheepdog trial that runs annually on the island.

And so we were kind of talking together one night and seeing how, you know, there's maybe a lack of sheepdog trials on the island because we said, you know, we always have to take a ferry to go to a trial somewhere on the mainland. So we were just kind of saying, oh, there's a gap here that we maybe can fill.

And then why don't we make it, you know, so that we can trial on each of our farms and then we can make, like, you know, a couple of days of it. And then what kind of started as loose chat then, has now became a big thing.

We initially wanted to have 60 dogs per day and thought that'd be plenty. And we'll do one trial at each farm and that'll do.

And then when we got all the entries, we were so overwhelmed with how many people wanted to come, so we said, you know, what can we do to accommodate everyone? So we decided to do two trials a day, which is quite a big undertaking. But we did say that we would manage. And then.

Yeah, and then it just became a big thing, and we have a final for it, too. And then a couple of years back, we added a brace trial to it, too, because there was only one brace trial in Scotland, which was at the National.

So we thought, you know, maybe try and put something on for the people that run Brace as well. So, yeah, that's kind of how it started.

How fantastic. And, you know, Lisa, give us an impression of how many people would come to the island for something for the event.

So now we take 120 dogs, which is roughly about 70 people, plus their families and spouses and cats. But we had.

We had over 200 dogs entered, and we can't accommodate everybody, which is really frustrating because we'd love to, you know, have everybody join and enjoy, because everybody just seems to absolutely love it. We just kind of got really big really quickly, and we are absolute maximum capacity now, so bigger and better.

Sarah, what's the ambition?

We do have a lot of people who want to enter, but one of the things that we've discussed as a committee is that actually part of the beauty of it is that we keep the number to really manageable sizes, right? So that everyone gets a chance to enjoy the day without it being so long.

And, like, when we've got the judges coming, we're asking them to judge two days, and we ask a lot of them.

The way that we've been making it bigger is, you know, we added in the brace and the final, we have a double gather and we try to make it bigger, as in, we create a really fun atmosphere for everybody to be at, which sadly means that, you know, we can't take everybody who enters.

But I think every single year we look at the entries and we're absolutely blown away by people who want to come and also people who just come and offer support and help. And, you know, just pitch in.

And so when we kind of talk, you know, bigger and better, I think, you know, what we feel is like the, the best outcome is that we're creating an amazing community and something that feels like it's got such longevity that people enjoy and that we enjoy as well. That's just what it feels like. We're creating an event that just feels really fun and joyful that people enjoy taking part in.

Emma, I suppose, moving on a little bit, for someone who's never watched a sheepdog trial, who's never experienced it, what is it about it that makes it so special?

I think it's the partnership. You've got this partnership with an animal who doesn't, it doesn't need you.

It could run out and chase the sheep and worry them and do whatever a dog would do, but instead it chooses to listen to you and take direction and commands from you. And sometimes it's like so far away and it's just really remarkable to see.

And I think the joy is in sheepdogs is shepherds get to see their own dogs working all the time. And it's just really nice to demonstrate your dog's ability in front of other people and sort of to be judged on that. It's really pretty impressive.

Elisa, what have animals taught you about?

So, you know, Emma, talking about sort of the special element of sheepdog trials, I'm just wondering what the animals have taught you about sort of patience and communication and leadership.

Yeah, I'm still learning. I think the biggest thing they've taught me is to stay calm when situations go out of hand.

Quite often when you're working with livestock, things go wrong and they go wrong quite quickly and that might not be your fault, but when they do go wrong, you can't lose your head about it. You have to really just take a deep breath and, you know, assess the situation and try to fix it at your best ability.

But quite honestly, my dogs have in incredible ways over the past years, brought me out of some real sticky situations that I thought, you know, how will I ever fix this? And they have just used their instinct, their brain, their God given talent to like, yeah, save the day.

I mean, Sarah, it's interesting when you talked about your experience in Scotland before you decided to move and coming here as a sort of visitor and a tourist. And I'm just wondering, you know, the reality of it. So farming is often romanticized, isn't it, from the outside.

People look in and think it was a, it's a lovely way of life and that's often through, you know, as Emma's experience through television and, you know, social media. And I just think, you know, what is the reality of farming life that you think most people need to understand.

Of all of us? I don't actually. I'm not a farmer myself. I've worked on several different farms.

But I think one of the realities of farming that I've kind of learned about is just there is this kind of. Yeah, this beauty and romanticizing of it, but it is just. It's. It's hard work.

And, you know, you need a physical strength and you need a mental strength and you need an emotional strength to really get through it.

And I think what a lot of people also kind of talk about is you also need, like a social and community around you in order to be able to feel like you can thrive and get through some of those really kind of deep, dark nights, you know, when. When the winter comes. And having. Having the right people around you is phenomenally important.

You know, a lot of the work that I do in my career is talking about, you know, people feeling isolated and feeling lonely.

And, you know, the animals, they can provide some, you know, comfort, like Lisa was saying, you know, they can get you through really difficult, tricky times. And it's about having that and having, you know, the social connections and the community around you.

It's really challenging as well because there is so much that's out of your control. Right. You have to. You have to do what you can with the weather, with the environment, with, you know, you know, some of the. The diseases.

You know, there's avian flu, you've got blue tongue, things like this that are challenges that are kind of thrown at you, and there's a resilience that you need to have, and sometimes it can be really hard to find. And I think one of the things that.

With setting up the trials of Butte that we really wanted to do was something that was just going to be really fun, that we were able to really enjoy, that we were able to bring people around us that maybe we don't get to see very often, build new friendships, build new relationships with people from further afield. And I think with farming, it looks beautiful and romantic and actually there's a big part of it that really is. But it's hard.

You're dealing with life and death.

Yeah, I mean, we've sort of touched upon the wobbles of which there were many. But I suppose there is probably lots of pluses as well. And I'm just wondering when you land somewhere Like Butte. You've come from somewhere else.

You've left your family. I mean, how do you meet people? Is it a case that you knock on their door? Do people knock on your door? Are you taking around a cup of sugar?

I mean, how does that. How does that. How do you start again?

I think it was really tough for us because it was during COVID so there wasn't really an opportunity to knock on people's doors or do anything like that. So it was quite isolating at the beginning. But most of our friendship groups stem from Lisa, so just adapting to our.

I'm just glad. I'm just really glad that Sarah moved here, too, because we needed a therapist, one that didn't bill us.

So trials, abuse. It's like, yeah, absolutely, you needed a therapist. So.

So you all came together. I mean, from different. From different. From different. We all migrated together. I mean, was an instant connection.

I mean, when you're sitting around the table deciding how it's going to work, who's doing what is always harmonious or. Come on, I need. I need. Need to spill the beans. I'm not too much.

I'm not.

I'm not. I'm not going to ask the therapist. She's gonna.

It's been very, very, very fragile at times.

Yes.

Because we're not only. We're not only trying to create this. We've created this monster of an event. We're, you know, running businesses together.

We're rubbing up alongside each other all the time in social circles and farming and everything. And sometimes you have different opinions, and sometimes I think we can feel like, you know, we can be offended by things. And the.

The path of true love doesn't run smoothly. It's got lots of bumps and swerves in it. And so it was with us, I think.

So how do you do? Okay, Lisa. How do you deal with them?

How do you deal with us, Lisa?

I meant them as in the bumps in the road, not Emma and Sarah and Katie.

Deal with them. I don't know. I think over the years, we've kind of learned to take.

Even if there's difference of opinions, we've learned to take a step back and evaluate from other people's points of view rather than trying to get our own agenda across. Because really, it's everybody's baby, if that makes sense. It's like we all want this to be the best we can make it.

And trying to see other people's points of view is challenging sometimes, but when we actually step back, take a breath, and try and just incorporate everybody's, you know, hopes for the event and, you know, ideas. Then we come out with a masterpiece of mosaic patchwork or what you call it. You know, it makes it us trying to.

Not just forcing one idea through, but building it as we go as the team we are.

I think that's the key to success, is the fact that all of us want it to be a success. And we might not be talking to each other all the time.

People have got different opinions, but we all want it to be a success and we're willing to kind of. Yeah. Make that happen.

Beautifully put, Lisa and Emma. It's like the UN trials of Butte. I can imagine sometimes that.

Yeah, the peace talks, sometimes it's more NATO.

I said it almost is like the UN because we all have really different cultural backgrounds as well.

I think that needs to be mentioned. So Cathinka's from Norway, Lisa's from Germany, Sarah's from Canada, and, like, I'm from Scotland.

So it's like a real different sort of group of people.

It's a proper international committee.

It's a global. I mean, but youth's going global. I think that's amazing.

And I think you come across as incredibly strong, capable woman, and that's part palpable to me, you know, and as a unit, I can imagine you're going to achieve so much. And like, that's. Yeah. I mean, the ambition in you is. Is fierce, which is absolutely fantastic. And. And it's.

It's great to hear that you want to take this event and. And make it, you know, I'm not saying better, but bigger, as you say, Sarah.

And I mean, I'm just thinking of life in the island and you've gone there. I'm just wondering how, you know, difficult is to attract people. I mean, a few of you have had farming backgrounds, but not everybody.

And just trying to get new people into that, the farming system and how difficult it is for people who haven't been born into that way of life.

I mean, yeah, I think obviously education and also, I think there's. I don't think there's a lack of people wanting to be in the industry either. I think people want to be in the industry.

It's just so hard to get into and the hours are long and the rewards are low. But if people can see a path into becoming an actual farmer, the thing is, a lot of people, they don't just want to stay as a farm laborer.

They want the progression into being able to have stock of their own or A business of their own. And I think possibly there's not enough role models showing that progression all the way through.

You know, there's lots of people who have, you know, being born into the industry, demonstrating the industry and I think that's great.

But we want to see people who have done it from the sort of the factory floor and done it all the way up so that people can go, ah, you can just start from scratch and get to that level.

We all have a love for animals, which is what I think initially connected us. I think a cross Butte, it didn't matter whether it was agricultural or town community, there wouldn't be any bad sense. It was all very welcoming.

The problem is with Budis there's very, very limited opportunities because it is so small. The farms are divided sometimes. You know, they've been in certain families hands for generations and they probably will be. It's.

There's not that many opportunities for a new farming family to come into Butte to find a farm.

And I think it was just very, very lucky there was an influx or like a certain number of farmers retiring given their tenancy back and the estate being absolutely fantastic in giving out 20 year leases, which really gives young families who are looking for their own place, for their own business a real chance to come and make a life in a community like this. But I don't know if there's any of those opportunities going to be coming up again.

I mean it could be 10 years before we see another tenancy handed back, another farmer retiring, before a new farming family can set foot on this island and make a life other than working for somebody on their farm, which is very sought after on Bute.

That's a very sobering statement, isn't it? To think that the opportunities are not going to be there. And so I just wanted to sort of finish with asking you, you know, how you.

If there's things that you do every day, do you have a habit, do you get out the house? Do you do your 10,000 steps? What is it that you do every day?

Do you have a thing that you each do to just know that once I've done that, I'm going to feel better. I'm just going to feel like I've reset myself. Cathinka, do you want to answer that?

First of all, what I do to feel better? I think, I don't know, go out and spend some time with my dogs every day.

I think that's really what I do to like get a wee wind down and walk with them and bring them all out. And yeah, that's really, I think being outside and being in nature really helps.

So I always do like a walk every day with my dogs and I feel like that's one of the main things that keeps me right.

Sarah.

Lots of little connections.

So like little micro connections, you know, just having a chat with the postman, you know, the, when the post is being delivered or popping into a shop.

And that's one of the things I love about here is that there's so many little family owned shops and everyone is always ready for a smile and a quick chat. And for me that just feels so important because connection with animals and with people is what really boosts me.

So I try to make sure I have as many of those as I can.

Emma?

Wine?

No. Yeah, wine. Coffee. Coffee in the morning.

Like sometimes if I'm like, I'm like, oh, you know, it's at lemon time, we're like, oh, we need a bit of a kickstart or something. You know, we're like, let's, let's go into town. Town's just like 10 minutes away and get, you know, a takeaway posh coffee or something like that.

And it's just those little things, doesn't it, that just kind of makes you feel a bit better and you're like, oh, yeah, now we're ready to go again. Sorry, it's not, not, it's not that deep.

No, but I mean it's, they're all, they're all, you know, very, very honest. Lisa.

I like to grow flowers and we grow some veg and I love to share it with people. It's great just to go and see somebody, bring them a bunch of flowers and the cabbage. That's great.

And you just get a wee bit of chat, just like Sarah said. You just go around, see somebody, have 20 minutes with them, you know, just have a chat.

Everybody gets their complaints out and then we crack on, feel way better.

Well, that's a lovely way to end the chat, Lisa and ladies, Cathinka, Sarah, Emma and Lisa, you have been a joy to chat. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you for being on Blether together. It's been lovely to hear you, to hear you all chat and share your stories.

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for having us.

It was lovely.

Thank you for having us.

Huge thanks to Cathinka, Emma, Lisa and Sarah. They are very busy people and it was lucky for us to chat with them all at the same time. Please do go and find out more about the trials of.

[email protected].

A reminder to you all that you can check out Farm Strong Scotland's online how's it going tool at farmstrongscotland.org it is a brilliant, easy access way to think about your mental well being and what you might be able to do to find help if you need it. See you next time.