Ten Golden Rules just didn’t help Kendelle Pollitt grow her law firm but we watched her become a local powerhouse in the process. In this case study, I walk you through the exact strategies we used to help Pier Law and Mediation grow 477% in just three years. From showing up in Google’s AI search to converting higher-value clients with better intake systems, we discuss what it really takes to scale with intention. We talk about what worked, what didn’t, and how focusing on the right clients, the right content, and the right systems led to exponential results. If you’re trying to grow your practice without burning out, Kendelle’s story will show you what’s possible.

Key Topics

01:29 – How Pier Law achieved 477% SEO growth and 350%+ lead increase

04:54 – Why opening in underserved communities helps growth and visibility

06:56 – Managing cross-border legal cases with US partners effectively

10:36 – Using conflict resolution training to de-escalate early in family law

13:03 – What a national award meant—and how they leveraged it for more leads

14:57 – The mindset shift from lawyer to business owner

17:22 – How niching down built consistency across locations and teams

19:43 – Why serving high-net-worth, cross-border clients works for them

20:56 – Niching helped them grow faster and made onboarding new team members easier

22:43 – SEMrush data shows 497 ranking keywords after deep SEO strategy

24:56 – How they eliminated bad leads by tightening the intake process

27:06 – Intake tips: empathetic language, follow-ups, and consistency

29:01 – Monthly performance meetings keep the team aligned and accountable

30:26 – How they landed top spots in Google’s new AI Overviews

31:46 – The secret: create Q&A videos based on common legal searches

36:18 – How those videos now bring in thousands of views and direct client leads

38:16 – Using cascading content to repurpose videos across platforms

39:28 – Local networking and giving back helped drive referrals and trust

41:13 – How to find and build COI (Centers of Influence) relationships

42:50 – Why women-led business groups like Soroptimist created deeper community roots

44:08 – Practical advice for starting out: pick one personal and one professional group

46:22 – Why board involvement leads to faster growth and better connections

48:44 – How masterminds and legal peer groups help scale smarter, not harder

52:19 – She now travels quarterly to meet her mastermind group for strategy and support

55:25 – What she looked for in choosing a good agency—and what actually mattered

58:13 – From the agency’s view: why great clients get great results

1:03:58 – The biggest growth mindset shift: "who, not how"

1:08:54 – Early steps: referral letters, community calls, and a strong website

1:13:22 – No magic bullet, but hiring the right partners made all the difference

Resources Mentioned

Books

• Who Not How by Dan Sullivan - https://a.co/d/jgM1cEZ 
• Buy Back Your Time by Dan Martell - https://a.co/d/eHOZHWn 

Software/Tools

• SEMrush - SEO tracking tool used to measure keyword growth and Google rankings - https://www.semrush.com 
• Google Search Console - Used for in-depth SEO diagnostics and performance tracking. - https://search.google.com/search-console 
• Google Ads (Pay-Per-Click) - Paid advertising platform used to target specific legal keywords and leads. - https://ads.google.com 

Mastermind Communities

• Great Legal Marketing - A community for law firm owners focused on marketing, growth, and practice development. Regular mastermind events and an annual conference.  - https://www.greatlegalmarketing.com/ 

About our Guest:

Kendelle Pollitt, LLB, Q.Med. is the founder and principal of Pier Law & Mediation, based in Surrey and White Rock. A seasoned family lawyer and certified mediator, Kendelle has over 15 years of experience guiding clients through divorce, adoption, child and spousal support, custody, and complex property division, including matters involving high net worth individuals and business owners.

Her practice emphasizes personalized, strategic solutions through litigation, negotiation, and mediation. Kendelle holds a Certificate in Negotiation from Osgoode Hall Law School and has completed over 200 hours of advanced mediation training. Whether acting as an advocate or neutral mediator, she is known for her compassionate approach, deep listening, and commitment to achieving efficient, cost-effective outcomes.

https://pierfamilylawyers.com 

About Jay Berkowitz:

Jay Berkowitz is a best-selling author and popular keynote speaker. Mr. Berkowitz managed marketing departments at: Coca-Cola, Sprint and McDonald's Restaurants, and he is the Founder and CEO of Ten Golden Rules,  a digital marketing agency specialized in working with attorneys.

Mr. Berkowitz is the author of Advanced Internet Marketing for Law Firms, The Ten Golden Rules of Online Marketing and 10 Free Internet Marketing Strategies that went to #1 on Amazon.  He is the host of the Ten Golden Rules of Internet Marketing Webinar and Podcast. He has been profiled by the Wall Street Journal, The Business Journals and FOX Business TV.

Mr. Berkowitz was selected for membership as a TITAN for Elite Digital Marketing Agencies, he is the recipient of a SOFIE Award for Most Effective use of Emerging Media, and a Special BERNAY’s Award.

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We don't need to be experts in every little

aspect of our business, but we need to align with those who can

help us get the things done that we need to get done. Really, I

think the biggest thing too, is hire before you're ready,

because you're never going to feel ready. So just make that

jump, make that leap. Make an informed leap, but still make

that leap. The biggest thing too, is acknowledging your

comfort zone. Okay, well, I'm feeling nervous. I'm feeling

uncomfortable here, pushing through that comfort zone,

because if you don't push through your comfort zone,

you're never going to grow and hiring an agency, hiring people

around you. I wish we hired 10 golden rules earlier. Quite

frankly, I think we'd be further along than we are right now.

Awesome. Thank you so much. You're welcome. I'm

being honest. Who not? How is a great book? It is? Yeah, it's

Dan Sullivan, who's originally an American, but he lives in

Toronto, and his business is out of Toronto. Yeah. Of Toronto,

and he has an amazing mastermind. But the concept's

great. It's instead of saying, you know, I need to do this, I

need to do this, always ask yourself, Who can do this? Who

can I get to do this? And another I'll give you, if you

haven't read Dan Martel's book, buy back your time. Another

great Canadian he has a similar philosophies. Just get great

people to do the work for you, and don't feel like you have to

do all the work.

All right, welcome everyone. So we got a really fun topic today.

We're gonna We're with my friend and client, Kendelle, and she's

gonna share with us her exponential growth case study,

and we're both going to talk about some of the things we did

to make this happen, but we have some really amazing results.

253% growth in SEO, and all of her numbers are great. The

number of website users and calls are like crazy, over 350%

increase versus a year ago, and chats are down a little bit, but

forms are up, so leads are way up, and the total leads and

total cases are way up. So we'll get into how we did all of this

and some of the things that you can apply for your marketing and

law firms and our agenda. Today I'm we're going to do some

introductions, and you'll meet Kendelle, and I'll tell you a

little bit about my background. We're going to go through the

awesome results, and we'll try and break down some of the

things that worked really well for the firm. And one of the

things that's really cool and really new is the artificial

intelligence. And people also ask sections of search, and

they're about 30% of the search results today. So we're going to

talk about how we've achieved some great SEO results in the AI

search results, like the Google version of chat GPT. We'll talk

about the video strategy, cascading content and all 10

golden rules meetings. We tell a joke of the week. Some people

say they're dad jokes. Some people say they're bad jokes,

but we got one per tradition, and really quickly, we're going

to do a prize drawing at the coma conference. A couple weeks

ago, we offered a YSL pert, so we're going to quickly do that

so we can record it and have it online, just to make it official

with that. Kendelle, welcome.

Thank you, Jay. I'm so happy to be here.

Thanks for inviting me.

Oh, so I guess first things first is the prize

drawing. So let's do that quickly. And I think I just have

to click this. So these are all the people that came by our

booth at the pilma summit, which is the personal injury lawyers

marketing mastermind Association, I think,

officially. And we had a booth, and we had all these folks. Just

want to make sure this is the right one. Looks good. And I'm

looking for people I know, but I don't know them. Anyways, here

we go, and congratulations to Horace Hunter. That's pretty

good, pretty fun. We'll be in touch with Horus about getting

the hardware, getting the purse. So congratulations. And now back

to our regular, scheduled webinar. Joke of the week, why

don't lawyers wear tuxedos? Kendelle, any guesses? I don't

know, Joe. They prefer lawsuits.

I'm used to saying Joe's My Account Manager,

so I usually my standard line at this stage is, I don't know,

Joe, tell me the answer.

Yeah. Some people call them dad jokes, but

whatever. Kendelle welcome from pure law and mediation in

British Columbia, and she'll tell us a little bit about the

locations. And then a couple new locations coming, including one

that's the paint still dry, right? Yes, exactly, yeah. And

she's a family lawyer and certified mediator Vancouver,

Surrey and White Rock and the new locate. What's the the new,

newest location?

So currently, we are, actually, I'm coming to

you live from Powell River, British Columbia. Yeah, Pell

river is our newest location that we are currently opening,

and we open officially on Monday, May 26 so we're really

excited about that. Congratulations, yes. Thank you

so much. So it's a fantastic community here, and they're in

need of more lawyers. We're looking forward to assisting

this community, but of course, on the horizon, we also have our

downtown Vancouver office currently in works, and so we

are in the permit stage, at this stage, trying to get permits

from the city of Vancouver.

That's awesome. Congratulations. And for people

who don't know, most people probably know Vancouver, very

beautiful city, one of the most beautiful in the world, the

Vancouver Olympics. Everybody got to see it. But tell us about

the area. You're also just tap into the us a little bit as

well, right?

Yeah. So actually, our original office is

in White Rock, British Columbia, and so we are. We share border

with Blaine, so right on Washington state. So our

practice is very border friendly, I guess because we

have a lot of our clients share. They have multiple homes, both

in Canada and the US. They may live in one country and work in

the other. So it's really interesting, and Vancouver

shares a lot of those characteristics. So we do lot of

cross border work. Vancouver, of course, is right on the coast of

the Pacific Ocean. So we've got and for Canada, it's one of our

big cities.

Hopefully people at least know Vancouver, right?

And what's the biggest difference? You explained, a lot

of people, a lot of your clients, might have a business

in the US live in Canada or vice versa. And sometimes it gets a

little complicated when with divorces and families and assets

owned in different countries. How does that work? From a legal

perspective,

you know what it's just about? From our

perspective, it's about creating partnerships, and so we work

closely with lawyers in the US, and we determine which

jurisdiction is going to take hold of a particular matter. In

some instances, we have part of a case, say the parenting is

being dealt with in Washington State, and the property is being

dealt with by British Columbia. We've been known to host

mediations at my office where we've got multiple parties and,

or, sorry, multiple actors, yeah, that take part in the

litigation or the resolution process, the mediation process.

We've got lawyers from all over joining in and putting their

heads together to try and help resolve the potential. Sometimes

it can be conflictual. Of course, we're in family law.

Resolve the conflict for these people,

great. And you went to the University of

Saskatchewan, and this is probably pretty rare for most of

the people watching this live, and sometime in the future, that

two people have actually been to Winnipeg and Saskatchewan. And

I'm from Winnipeg, Canada, and so I know Western Canada really

well, and I've been to Saskatchewan, and most people

can't even pronounce it and it, by the way, you get your your

credibility, because anyone who could get through a couple years

in law school in Saskatchewan, it is cold on the prairies,

Canadian Prairies, maybe tell us a little bit about the law

school experience in Saskatchewan.

Saskatchewan is definitely cold. So when you

think of Canada being cold, that is definitely the place, and it

certainly fits the stereotype. So I went to law school in their

city of Saskatoon. It's a very pretty city, but it does get

cold in the winter. I remember days having to park back in what

was called B lot, and by the time I got from my parking lot

to the law school, I'm slapping my legs and trying to wake

everything up. And of course, back in those days, we didn't

have weather apps and smartphones, so we would always

be checking the weather channel before we left the house to head

out to really anywhere outside of a building

with you didn't really need a weather app from

about November to to march. You need a scarf and gloves like no

exposed skin, right? Yes, exactly, just to the east of

Saskatchewan or the Province of Manitoba, where I grew up, and

it's right in the middle. So if you're in the United States,

it's due north of North Dakota.

Yes, exactly. But where we live, people I

usually with all my American friends. I get lots of cold

weather jokes, quite frankly, and then they're surprised to

because I'm from Canada, they're surprised to learn that I'm

actually. In Vancouver. We're fair weather people because

we're right on the west coast there, so we don't typically get

those cold weather snaps. We're get our four seasons and quite a

bit of rain. But other than that, those really cold days

don't send don't tend to impact us too much here on the west,

yeah,

most days it's probably more beautiful in

Vancouver than it is in the rest in half of the US. Yeah, it's

beautiful place, that's for sure. And they did a certificate

of negotiation at Osgoode Hall in Toronto. I also spent some

time in Toronto. What was that

like? Oh, it was awesome. It's it's a great

law school, and the program was fantastic, and for me, it was

just another opportunity to build my toolbox with respect to

conflict resolution skills. So one of the things I found was,

as a young junior lawyer, learning to litigate was really

important, because it's a tough skill, and it's not necessarily

something they actually teach you in law school, really, as

all my lawyer colleagues will know, that we learn very little

of what we need to be a lawyer in law school. But yeah, the

certificate of negotiation, it was really eye opening, and it

really helped me give some scientifically backed skills to

help bring my clients towards resolution without unnecessarily

or unduly creating conflict. Right? Because, especially in

family law, really anywhere, conflict breeds conflict. So the

key is to try and resolve family law disputes as early in the

process as possible, before they can really even be characterized

as dispute. Really is my goal, and that's what that helped me

do. That certificate,

awesome. I started my career also in

Western Canada, in Winnipeg, and worked at Sprint and Coca Cola

McDonald's as a director of marketing, before moving down to

the United States and founding 10 golden rules, 23 years ago.

Now, we actually met at a conference right where I did one

of the speakers. And so one of the nice opportunities for me of

speaking and doing this content and our YouTube channel, we have

over a million views, which is amazing to me every time I see

it. If you're watching this sometime in the future, not

watching it live, we'll be putting it on our YouTube

channel, but we do these webinars every month, trying to

do what I call thought leadership marketing, where we

share our expertise, and hopefully it puts a positive

light on 10 golden rules. Without further ado, let's have

a quick peek at the website and big congratulations. Actually,

you were one of Canada's top growing companies last year the

Globe and Mail is like the big national paper in Canada. Yes,

congratulations, and you had a party and had some press around

that. How did that go? Oh, it

was awesome. It was such a great experience.

And I think, yeah, we definitely had a celebration for that

award. We were recognized for 477% growth over the past three

years. So that was, from our perspective, quite an

accomplishment. And we definitely had a community

celebration, because, of course, pure law and mediation is a

community law firm, and without our community, we wouldn't be

able to be where we are. And I'm just so lucky to have business

offices in communities that are just so supportive of small

business. And so we really wanted to celebrate the impact

for not only pure Law Mediation, but also for our communities,

our small communities being recognized nationally.

And one of the things we always say, and we

talked about this when you got the nomination, is it's great to

get an award like that, but one of the things that you can

really take advantage of is tell people about it, have a party,

press releases and social media and stuff like that. That's one

of the benefits. And I'm sure that worked really well for you

guys.

Certainly, yeah, we took a multifaceted

approach to really capitalize on that opportunity. But of course,

10 golden rules was an integral partner to us in making sure

that happens. I know you and I, J had quite a few talks about

this. Okay, how are we going to leverage this award in terms of

letting others know it's one thing to be a good law firm to

be a good lawyer, but in order for us to be successful, we need

to let people know that we are doing a good job and that they

can trust us with their legal problem. And certainly, yeah, we

had lots of talks around how to leverage that opportunity, and

I'm really happy with with the results of those campaigns.

Yeah, so by extension, that's one of. The

things that I always coach people on is, if you do anything

like win an award, win a huge case, sponsor the 5k even,

sponsor the local baseball team, yeah, you want to do about as

spend as much money on the award or the sponsor sponsorship as

you spend on marketing it and telling people about it. There's

nothing wrong with that, certainly if it's in your social

media and your marketing, and if it's a bigger deal, make do a

press release, and that works really well.

Yeah, I think one of the things I've had to

get over as a business lawyer is, especially as a female, we

tend to not want to brag about ourselves. But it took me a

while to get my mind around that concept and realize that by

letting people know we're doing a good job, we're helping them

to find us and find a service provider that's trustworthy and

can actually serve them in the best way possible. So I think

that mindset shift really helped me really get away from just the

lawyer mindset where I'm just sitting down, grinding away,

doing a good job for people, but also to the business owner

mindset, where I'm thinking, Okay, how do I best let people

know that I am doing a good job, and my firm is a good, reliable

firm to assist you with so that,

yeah, you're right. I remember that sometimes

it takes time when you start a business to realize that there's

absolutely nothing wrong with social media content and

publishing content, and particularly what I call thought

leadership, like if you share valuable information, there's

absolutely nothing wrong with that, and got to step up and do

it. So one of the things we talked about, and I asked

Kendelle to share as many tips for law firms that are maybe

just starting out or into their first couple of years and

haven't had the kind of success she's had. What are some of the

things that work the best for you? And you talked about

identifying the persona of the firm and really figuring out

your niche or niche, depending on which country you're watching

this in. And we've had a lot of success with niching down to

lawyers as well. But I'll let you talk about finding the

persona for the firm,

yeah, for me. So we are a family law firm, and

we have just recently expanded our services to include wills

and estates. But from my perspective, it still fits in

with that niche, because what we do is we serve families, and we

help families plan for their futures and have safe, secure

and really fulfilling futures, really, whether it be through

they are going through a family transition, through divorce and

separation, or they're planning for The future when they're no

longer here with us and planning for their families. So that was

a really big I think that key niching down really helped us

with the growth. Because in order to be successful, from my

perspective, we need to be able there's just so much to do

really right? And so if you're trying to be the jack of all

trades and be good at everything, it's really almost

impossible. So when you really niche down and you say, Okay,

this is what I'm focusing on. Then from there, you have the

time and the energy and the resources to okay, what is going

to be my process around this one aspect of my practice area? How

am I going to make sure that everyone in my firm and everyone

around me is carrying out this service in a consistent manner,

so that we can provide the same level of service, regardless of

whether or not you get Kendelle or another lawyer at the firm,

or you are in our downtown urban firm of Vancouver, or you're in

our small town firm of Pell river. So I think that is really

important, and it also helps you streamline your marketing

message. Again, it's about letting people know that you are

someone who can be trusted and you know what you're doing and

you can really help them. And by letting people know that you are

the right person to help them, that is giving back to them,

we're we're helping people know who to go to get an efficient

and effective service,

and that's one of the things that helped us a lot,

is like you really figured out your persona, or some people

call it an avatar, which is basically like your target

consumer. Yes, we actually didn't nail it. Maybe in our

first meeting, it took a couple of meetings and a couple months

to really. Really hone in on the advertising, the messaging and

the good news is you guys, pretty much had it figured out

that someone a couple with high net worth is a much better

persona for you than a young couple with no kids who are just

separating they don't have a high interest or a high

financial investment in in getting that divorce or even

getting a prenuptial. And

for us, I think just given the location,

the geographic location of our office locations, as well as the

expertise of our lawyers, what we excel at is the property, the

difficult property division issues. So if you've got

businesses and you've got cross border issues, that's what we

excel at. And so for us to try and find those clients that we

can best serve for the issues we know best has really helped us

with our success.

And for us, we picked the lawyer niche over

five years ago now, and we'd been working with lawyers for

1617, 18 years, and we heard this term, there's riches in the

niches. And I started hearing from a couple different sources

that there's a lot of value in in really focusing on one niche.

And I met a software company that sold for three, $60 million

and they only did software for one industry. It was

construction software. And I met a bunch of agencies, other

digital agencies, that only focused on one niche, and I was

hesitant, but when I picked the one niche, we get a lot more

referrals, because people know Jay and 10 golden rules does

Internet Marketing for law firms, and I gave up if there's

200 si si codes, I gave up 199 si si codes. But since we've

been focused on the niche, we get more referrals. And the

other thing that I knew we'd get better at doing lawyer marketing

if we were focused but the one thing I didn't realize is would

be a lot easier for my team, because that's all they do, and

that's what they're really good at. They don't have to. In the

old days, we had to figure out Amazon stores and E commerce and

affiliate marketing, and every day the client had a brand new

set of needs. But now we pretty much get great at doing the one

thing do it really well over and over. Any, any last thoughts on

picking the niche.

I think, really, it's just picking what

you're good at, picking what will get you out of bed in the

morning, and then just focusing on it, going forward, embracing

it. Sometimes it's just making the decision and then being

confident the decision and just going with it really

all right, so we promised some awesome results,

and talk a little bit about the numbers and how we got there.

The first headline is, and this is a tool called sem rush. It's

a public tool. So these are the SEO results, and we, when we

started out, you all had relatively few keywords that

were coming up on the first page of Google. And what this means

is we had about 12 keywords on the first two pages of Google,

and some of the SERP features are things like Google Maps and

things like that, the green number, and now we're into like

the 497 results, really effective. And a lot of times

when you get keyword growth, it doesn't necessarily equal

traffic. So you've got to have the right keywords. You've got

to be ranking for things that people are searching for

relative to your practice area. But fortunately, we've got the

messaging right, and we'll show you some more examples of that

in a minute. The website traffic is up 56% year over year, the

phone calls are way up, and the key things we measure are like

website traffic, but more important are the calls, chats

and forums. And even more important is how many of those

folks became new clients. We also break down the difference

in the traffic between just overall, and there's other

sources of traffic, like people who come directly to the

website, people who are referred by other websites, like they go

to the Bar Association or fine law or the Globe and Mail

newsletter would be a referral, if people look for the fastest

growing companies and came to the website. But we at tingle

the rules, we focus a lot on the organic traffic. So how many

people came from free Google searches? So that's up 100%

where the overall website traffic's up 56% so as a

percentage, you're getting a lot more of those opportunities for

free. Really good for business. And then this chart is the total

leads and clients retained, and we've continued to grow over the

past. I guess this is a year and a bit now, we keep updating

these slides, and you're getting more leads and signing more

clients. What have you seen with the marketing and the results?

What's worked the best from your side?

I think the big thing for us is you. Yes,

getting more leads, but it's not just more leads from our

perspective, it's the right leads. Jay, you may remember

this, but before we hired you, we had hired another company

that I had found on, I can't remember, right? I just found

them online, and I spoke to the owner, and I talked to him about

the kind of clients we're looking for what we were doing,

and it just didn't once I got off that initial phone call with

the owner of the company and was passed on to someone else,

really, I was put in with someone who had no idea really

about lawyer marketing and lawyer leads and lawyer or any

really idea about my business, and didn't, quite frankly, care

to learn about it. So we kept getting all these leads and all

these phone calls, and we kept getting all these phone calls

people looking for free lawyer and legal aid lawyers, and we

don't do legal aid at my firm. And so I was like, What the

heck's going on? We looked into it. And I guess because the

keywords from the marketing agency's perspective was like,

there's a lot of people looking for a pro bono lawyer, so then

they were marketing me towards pro bono lawyers. I was like,

No, that is not my avatar client. We have a business we

need to get paid for our work, and I was paying money for these

leads. From my perspective, there's a lot more to it than

just the numbers, which are good and I'm happy with but it's also

about the kinds of clients that are coming to our website and

calling the office.

And the one thing we really focus on is trying to

get phone calls, because typically, a phone call is much

better than a form fill. These days, someone fills out a form a

lot of times you call them back and they don't even pick up the

phone. And I know you guys have done a lot of work and worked

with our team on intake and answering the phone and making

sure you're not missing calls and converting those calls a

little bit better. So maybe talk about some tips for folks about

how to answer the phone and go from a lead to a assigned

client.

First thing we do is every time we take a phone

call, if it's someone who is looking for a lawyer, then we

ask for the name and phone number first, in case we get

disconnected, and then that way we can reach out to them again.

I think the big thing that has been really instrumental for us

is getting a system in place for follow ups and training staff on

how to connect with people, potential clients on the phone,

right from the get go, learning and training staff to really

listen to the clients, make those empathetic statements when

appropriate, so that they know that they've touched they've

called the right place, they've made the right touch point,

they've reached the right law firm for them, and it's made we

are the ones who can help them, because we understand where

they're coming from. So I think that's been a big game changer

for us. But like everything, especially as the firm grows and

evolves, our our systems become more sophisticated, and the we

talked about this a year and a half ago, Jay and we were

working on it, and then, most recently, a couple of meetings

ago, we're looking okay, what's going on with intake? How can we

approve again? And how can we evolve this system? And how can

we again, dig in, see what's working, see what's not working,

and how can we improve upon it? So it's all a process. Nothing

is ever perfect, because as our firm changes, the processes grow

and evolve with us. But those are some of the things that we

do at pure law that have made a really big impact on really

catching those clients right from the first phone call and

getting them into our pipeline.

Yeah, tracking super important, and a lot of

this data we go through every month in our performance

meeting. And one of my mentors has a great line. He says, what

gets measured gets attention and improves. And I'm sure you all

have some key performance indicators you look at as a

company, but at least every month, like you're going to find

out from us how many leads you got, how many calls, how many

chats, how many phone calls, and we provide that in a shared

Google Sheet, and then your team tells us which of those leads

were converted. But I think the attention on that number every

month probably holds your team accountable, right?

Yeah, it does, and it helps us realize, okay,

what's working or what's not, or okay, why are the phone calls

down this month? Or what did we do really well that we were

getting more leads those kinds of things, okay? Or also, it

helps us, you and I and our account manager, Joe and grant

will. Uh, we'll look at something, if the numbers are

down or looking a little bit funny for the month, we'll

discuss it, what's going on, what's happening, and how can we

fix it? Is it an anomaly? Is it because summer holidays are

coming up and people are just putting off divorce until kids

go back to school? Or is it something we need to look at and

adjust, so that's really helpful for us.

Okay, great. Next up is a couple really cool SEO

results that I teased in the opening. And this is the new

Google AI overview. And this is a search for separation in BC,

Canada, and you guys are getting, I don't know, like, 50

of these really great results. And this is basically like a

chat GPT. And you probably, everyone's probably started

seeing these. And basically what Google is doing, and chat GPT

does, is they read the Internet, and then they use artificial

intelligence, AI to compile an answer. Now there's good and

bad, right? If they do a really good job answering the question,

a lot of people aren't going to click and go to a website, but

the good news is, if they use your website to compile the

answer, and if we click here to see show more, we see that your

website came up as one of the the websites Google used to

create this answer. And each of these links, by the way, is a

link to a website, and most consumers are just getting the

hang of this, right? This is really new. Google introduced it

about mid year last year, and had some stumbles out of the

gate. So really it was 2025 where they started showing this

more and more, and the AI is pretty good now, and the AI is

just going to get smarter and smarter, because the AI learns

from people like they if the answer is really good, and the

person clicks on a few of the websites, they know they got the

answer right, if the answer is not right, and they keep

refining the question by doing an additional search, Google

knows that they didn't get the answer right, and the AI learns

from all that. Another similar area of success we've had is you

guys are coming up in a lot of what we call PAA in the

industry. People also ask. So this is a paid ad, and then this

is like the number one answer, and they actually pulled a

snippet from your website. So Google's actually saying your

website has the best answer to the question, prenuptial

agreement, BC, Canada. And these are other variations. People

also ask similar variants of this, and then your main website

comes up also in the SEO results. So this is like a dream

result, where you're right at the top of the page and Google's

pointing you up. Of course, it's really nice to have great

results, but the question is, how do we get there? And one of

the secrets, and Kendelle has done an amazing job at this, is

we do Q and A videos, Question and Answer videos. And the

rationale is essentially, when someone does a Google query,

they're asking a question like, prenuptial agreement, BC Canada.

Or do I need a prenuptial How do I do pre nup true? How much does

a prenuptial cost? Or here it is, do prenups hold up in court?

Can a prenup have a cheating clause? Do you need a lawyer for

prenup in Canada? And so we take a lot of these questions, and a

lot of times, when you type something, Google shows you

additional suggestions. It's called Google Suggest. We take a

lot of those questions, and then we just generally take a lot of

keywords that we want to be ranking for, and we do Q and A

videos. So Kendelle sits down once every three months, we send

a videographer into her office. We attend by zoom, so we're like

the directors of the video shoot, but it's pretty simple.

And then Kendelle records question and answers for these

simple questions, right? Do mothers get custody by default?

British Columbia divorce? What rights do I have in British

Columbia in a split if we live together but never married. And

you see some of these are getting amazing traction. This

one has 9000 views, 9000 views, 3000 views. And we do it pretty

simply. We do some more sexier social media stuff too. But

essentially, the design here is that if someone comes into your

office, and this is Kendelle, is boardroom, they're going to ask

a question, and you're going to answer the question anything. Or

maybe I'll, should I play one first? Or do you want to talk

about it first? Oh,

gosh, do we have to?

Oh yeah, you do great. You do great. So we'll

just play a minute of it. I'm going to make sure I have the

video shared.

As family lawyers, we commonly get the

question, What rights do I have in British Columbia, in a split

if we live together but never got married? In British

Columbia, we have the Family Law Act, and the Family Law Act sets

out a property regime. Name That applies to both married couples

and couples who lived together in a marriage like relationship.

So what's a marriage like relationship in order to be

considered a spouse living in

all right, I'll let you off the hook, Kendelle,

but the great news is that if these have 9000 views, people

like these videos. And what the reason I know that is because

the way the algorithm works is if people watch them, and they

watch them through and then they watch a couple more videos, that

means that people are using these as an asset. They're using

it to build the knowledge base, and a lot of times, Kendelle,

I'm sure you get calls and people said they watched the

videos, right? Yes, yeah, it's talk to us. It's we're tough on

you. We make you record these videos, but we do a little

rehearsal in advance. We give you the questions in advance.

And essentially the design is you just have to answer

questions that you ask all the time. Literally, if a client

calls in or is sitting in your boardroom, you're answering

questions that people have on the tip of their tongue. So talk

about it from your side of the table.

Yes, it feels a little different when you've

got a room full of people recording you and listening. I

think that video was probably one of my first videos, and it

was very uncomfortable. I think I described it to a kin as a

torture, but it's gotten easier and easier as we've gone along.

And yeah, I don't know they're good. It's people like them. It

helps. It helps people to answer questions that they have,

yeah, and hopefully you've heard this,

clients tell me all the time, Jay, thank you for getting me to

do those videos. We just got a great case, and our client said

she watched four or five of the videos, and she knew we were the

right lawyer for them, and I, and these videos are on YouTube,

they're on the website, and then we use them in all the social

media we it's a concept we call cascading content. So we start,

we put post the video on YouTube, we search engine

optimize it, so we use keywords, and literally, we use the

question as the title of the video. So we're actually doing

search engine optimization against a question, not a

keyword. And Google, in the last four or five years has built

semantics into their SEO, meaning that the human language

like semantics is like the understanding of human language,

so they understand questions where, if you think back five or

10 years ago, you had to put in like family lawyer for

prenuptial agreement. White Rock, British Columbia. Like to

get a really good search result, you had to be super specific.

But now you could just say, obviously, like, what do I need

for prenuptial in British Columbia and Kendelle site pops

up because we've answered that question, or Google's determined

that the website has the best answer, or in the case of the

AI, they've used your website and the information on your

website and judged it to be part of the correct answer to the

question. That's super valuable. And have folks commented that

they've watched your videos before, you've met them and stuff?

Uh, yes, we've got, we have got a few comments

like that,

hopefully more to come as you keep coming up with

these AI results. So just a quick example of what the

cascading content looks like. So basically, the concept of

cascading is like a river goes over a waterfall and creates a

bunch of small rivers and tributaries and little

waterfalls and little pools of water, we would start with

either a YouTube video or a blog post. In this case, this was the

winner, the information about the report on business and being

part of Canada's top growing companies. And so we use that

consistently on Facebook, on Instagram, on LinkedIn, on the

blog, on in, in the monthly newsletter. And so basically,

the the the waterfall is the blog post in this case, or the

YouTube video, and then we cascade it through all the

social media. So it's super effective, super cost effective

and super easy. Another area that you've been super

successful in is networking and community building. And maybe

you could share some tips on how you build the business through

the network and through the community.

Yeah, I think what we try to focus on is

really a multifaceted approach to sharing information about the

firm. Networking and involvement in the community has been a huge

aspect of pure lawn mediation, marketing strategy, growth

strategy, and is a driving force, really, for our success.

I think we contribute a lot to the communities that we serve.

So that means we provide scholarships to high schools.

Students in our local area, we sponsor many community events.

We make an effort to go out into the community, be seen, be

present, and get to know the people in our community and some

of the CO wise in the community, so our message can be spread

exponentially, as opposed to just through our word of mouth.

So it's really, I think the networking and the community

piece and giving back to our community has really been

instrumental in terms of our growth. For sure, another idea

that we have is we do our monthly library sessions, so we

call them, ask a lawyer, or we have in twas, and we've got,

sometimes you've got ask a paralegal. And so we it's, from

my perspective, access to justice is a huge issue, and so

that's how we give back.

What's a COI

center of influence? I know these words

now, all these acronyms.

How do you identify the centers of

influence, and how do you connect with those folks?

I think the more you get out into the

community, and the more you start to network, the more you

become exposed to those people who are also out in the

community and networking. And so I think there's no real strategy

that I have on identifying a COI, but really just getting out

there and seeing who's the more people you know, the more you're

out there, putting yourself out into the community, the more

people are going to recommend you to others in their circle.

So these are other lawyers, accountants, who

are other good Cois

for you, for us? Yeah, definitely. Other

lawyers, accountants, counselors are a big source of client

referrals for us and just other business owners. Quite frankly,

because we're a business owner, we're out there in the community

trying to get our name out there. And one thing I found is

business owners are just so supportive of each other, and so

we want to help everyone we know how hard it is and the struggle

and the grind. And so when we can help others be successful,

it feels good. So I think other business owners are also a huge

COI for us.

And where do you find these folks, like chambers

of commerce, and even you're a mom too. We skipped that part,

soccer moms and things like that. Like, where do you find

these COI relationships?

Well, I spend a lot of time attending industry

events, so actually getting out, meeting my colleagues who are

also lawyers, those are really important. I think, from my

perspective, they've helped our business grow, getting out to

Chamber of Commerce events, going to local community galas,

participating in charities. I am a member of the Soroptimists,

which is similar to rotary, but it's Women's International

Organization, and we work on those issues that are important

to women, so I think those are important for us. Was there any

one group that is hit the ball out of the park type group? No,

but I think again, we it's again coming down to that multifaceted

approach and just getting out there, meeting people, and

always remembering to be kind and nice and welcoming to

others. Because if we're welcoming and supporting to

others, we get what we receive what we give. And so that's my

philosophy. I'm always trying to give and help others, and I've

been very fortunate that I've had the same kind of support

come back to me. And if

you're just getting started, one of the

simple things is pick one personal and one professional

group and get a little bit more involved. A lot of people think

they can just show up at the Bar Association once a month, and

that's networking. And by the way, they often show up right

when the event starts and leave right when it ends. And but

that's not going to be super effective, so you want to be one

of the first people in the room, because the best networking

starts before the educational component starts, or before the

speaker starts. And you meet people at the coat check, at the

line for cocktails or the buffet or whatever, whatever type of

event it is. And I always say, have a very simple goal that you

want to follow up with, meet people and then follow up with

two people after the event. So yes, you want to have a one on

one, where you have a coffee or you have a Zoom meeting. And get

to know them a little bit better. So in Kendelle's case,

she'd be looking for COI centers of influence, accountants,

counselors, the other attorneys. Because obviously, if you're a

personal injury lawyer, you're not going to handle a divorce

case 99% of the time. And you can refer to them and they can

refer to you. So if you meet someone and you guys hit it off

a little bit. And you think, this is a person who's probably

has a decent amount of business. You meet them for a coffee or

lunch, and then get to know each other a little bit. And then the

next time you see each other at the networking event, you're

fast friends, and they introduce you to people. And that's how it

grows. And then the other thing I recommend is get involved a

little bit in the organization. So what I've said before, one

personal, one professional pick, the Bar Association, and I'm

going to I'm going to double down. I'm going to make sure

it's on my calendar. I'm going to go to the bar every month and

maybe get involved on a committee or something there

everybody, every organization's looking for volunteers. And when

once you get on a committee, next thing you're on the board,

next thing you're the chairman of the board, and the personal

could be your kids soccer team, run the fundraiser, or if you're

a runner, join the committee for the 5k Fun Run. But get a little

bit more involved. Pick just, just. All you need to do is pick

two, one personal, one professional. If you're just

getting started. It sounds like Kendelle is doing a lot more

than that. I'm involved in five or six different organizations,

but you don't have to go there when you're just getting

started. And that's exactly it. Yes, I'm

doing more than that now, but when I started, for example,

it's about finding that person who can help make those

introductions as well. And so one of those people for me was

Adam Smith, our printer, Guy of Uptown printers. And so he was

helpful to me in getting involved in the chamber. And I

think one of the big confidence building opportunities for me

was also getting involved in the board on that chamber. And Adam

helped introduce me. And then that's how it's through him,

because he was on the board of the Chamber of Commerce at the

time, he helped me to meet people and get the confidence to

take on that leadership opportunity. And so I think

that's it, because when you just keep attending these things, it

is important, but it takes a long time, right? I think the

biggest takeaways I would have is yes. Number one, if you can

get involved in some kind of leadership opportunity with the

organization you join, I think that's very important. And

whether that's joining a committee or joining the board

or doing something so that you can tighten up the group that

you can network with. That helps. And then also, when you

attend these networking events, exactly, I don't go there

thinking, I need to meet everyone in the room and make

connections with everyone in the room. I go to these events, I

think, okay, who can I connect with? I need two to three people

that I can connect with. And then you've got to do the follow

up.

Yeah, that's a great point. A lot of people

think they have to hand out as many business cards as possible,

but we all avoid the business card hand. Writer, guy, yeah,

want to just have high quality conversations with folks. And

another little pro tip is ask the organizer of the event, or

if you're involved, if you're on the committee, you can prep in

advance, know who's coming and target a couple folks that you

would like to meet and do one of those follow up one on one

meetings with Yes. Next up is conferences and masterminds. And

I wanted to touch on this a little bit because one of the

we've done a full webinar on masterminds, if you want to see

that on our YouTube channel, and you're a member of a mastermind

and we met at a conference. So I'll let you go first.

Yeah, I think one of the, not, I think I know

one of the huge, the driving force, quite frankly, for me,

especially in the early days, was networking with other like

minded law firm owners, and the group I found that helped me

with that was Great Legal Marketing and Ben Glass and all

of his people there. And so for me, I continue to this day to

travel to Washington, DC, from the West Coast, to meet with my

mastermind group quarterly. And for me, that's just been really

helpful, and it it provides me a community of colleagues. I can

bounce ideas off, I can vent to if I need. And because, quite

frankly, usually when you've got a group full of people who are

all going through the same thing, usually someone has

already experienced the problem or the circumstance that you're

dealing with at that moment, and so it's great to get that

insight and guidance from supportive colleagues without

necessarily having to I don't know my spouse is a great

sounding board for me, but quite frankly. Week, sometimes I

always don't want to hear his advice. So even though he's got

his master's degrees MBA, and he's been in leadership for a

lot longer than I have it, some usually comes easier from

someone outside of my marital relationship.

Yeah, that one can be tricky, for sure. Yeah,

the power of a mastermind is amazing. And I mentioned

earlier, we're in a mastermind with several other agencies,

digital agencies, and it's really fantastic, because any

question I have, we have a private Facebook group, and I

can ask the question. The other day we I was looking at how to

pay one of our employees is in Nicaragua, and like, within

seconds, I got four answers, and it was all the same software,

and you can either ask the group, or yesterday, we actually

had our monthly conference call, and everybody can ask one

question, and you get what they call a hot seat, and everybody

in the room provides you with feedback, and you break into

people at your level. So I'm dealing with the bigger

agencies, and everybody's got great feedback. And yesterday I

was talking about staff retention issue, and I got great

feedback from the room. What's some of the great things that

you've do? You guys do hot seats as well. At your mastermind,

yeah,

yeah, we do hot seats and like you. So what

we've when I first started with Great Legal Marketing, we

started there's two different groups depending on your revenue

level and firm size. So when I started, I was basically just a

solo me and my legal assistant. And now, of course, we have a

firm with 18 people, multiple lawyers, multiple staff. So,

yeah, we we network with, not network, I guess it is

networking, but it's i It's a social group. It's a

professional group. Quite frankly, it's a friendship

group. I've made some friends through this group that will be

with me my whole life. But yeah, like we network with or we meet

with people and other law firm owners who are generally the

same stage as us, was that the question, did I miss that?

Sorry?

Oh, no, that's great, and they might be in a

different practice area. Yeah, if your questions about escrow

accounts or staff issues or real estate, you just got two new

locations. What an amazing thing to tap into. I got another

attorney who's got a second or third location and talk to them

about how to do those kind of things, right?

Yes, exactly. It's yeah.

And by the way, there's a counter to this, and I

see it all the time, because we're in the fortunate situation

of working with about 100 different law firms now, and the

folks who struggle are typically not the ones who go to

conferences and they're in masterminds. They're trying to

do it themselves there. It's like that persona of, I'm

smarter than everybody else. And frankly, their growth is nowhere

near the people who go to conferences and participate in

masterminds, because it's like, success leaves clues. And if you

go to one of the better conferences, and Great Legal

Marketing is awesome. There. Ben and Brian, his son is his

partner in Great Legal Marketing work really hard to put two days

worth of experts on stage. And sometimes the best stuff happens

at lunch or breakfast. You meet people and you ask them, what's

working in their business? By the way, that's a great question

for networking. What's working for you? And you just learn so

much at these conferences. And then the mastermind is, like

Kendelle explained, super focused, like I'm sitting down

with agencies at my level, the problems we have are very

similar and but we also coach the people who are just starting

out in the mastermind and answer their questions in our Facebook

group and at the live conference. So it's really

awesome if you're just starting out. And obviously, both of us

are big fans of masterminds. We highly recommend finding one

that fits for you, and Great Legal Marketing is coming up.

Are you going to be there? I hope you're going to be there,

that's the plan. And you're going to tell me the dates. I

hope, right, I'm

going to October, yeah,

and it's October and it's in DC, yeah, and you

can just search Great Legal Marketing, or maybe Elizabeth

will help us and put a link in the chat, and I'm going to be

speaking there, and the content is amazing. I'm in the room the

whole two days, and even if they're talking about lawyering,

I sit there and I learn because the speakers are great and the

content is great, and it's relevant for me, and then the

networking is fantastic, and I highly recommend it if you.

Haven't been to conference, haven't joined a mastermind.

We're preaching here, but we're preaching to the converted. So

the next part we talked about in the pre pre event advertising is

how to pick a great agency. And I wanted you to talk a little

bit about what went through your mind when picking us, and what

makes a great agency from the client side, in dealing with an

agency

for us, picking an agency, I felt like

it was a big step for us, because, I mean, I had met you,

Jay. So it was really for me, it was very helpful, because I was

able to put a face, and not only a face, but a name that I

trusted because I had seen you speak, and we had chatted a

little bit about my firm before we we settled on you. But of

course, there's lots of agencies out there, but it was a big step

for us, because it's number one, it's a big financial commitment,

and we had been trying to haphazardly do a lot of this

stuff on our own, but and doing it on the cheap, but what I

found was again, hiring the PPC guys or the ads. All of a

sudden, I'm paying PPC, paying Google to do ads for pro bono

lawyers. That was obviously not the result I was looking for. So

working with an agency really has helped us. It's just it's

taken a lot of stress off my shoulders, because we have, you

guys, have you've got your experts in each niche, again, of

the digital marketing so we've got our content marketers, we've

got our the digital marketers, we've got the PPC experts, and

it's all working with One Agency. And then, of course,

we've got our account manager. Who's my account manager is Joe

Doyle, and Joe's the one who makes it all come together and

works with me every day, and, of course, grants great too. So

that's the thing I like about an agency, is that I only need to

work with one, one entity, and then I get all of these

services, and the quality is great as well, right? Because I

don't necessarily know, or it takes me a long time to figure

out what's going on with why are we getting so many phone calls

people asking for pro bono lawyers we don't really

understand and but with an agency, there's a lot of checks

and balances, and that I find as well, because there's so many

different people working together to create our digital

marketing footprint. And so that's what I found. I think the

best is there's checks and balances. I enjoy having you pop

in every now and then and see how things are going. And also,

I find our account manager is very receptive and eager to help

and respond to any questions that we have. So from my

perspective, that's what the that's a really great thing

about working with an agency, particularly your agency.

Thank you so much. That's awesome. I also

wanted to share it from the other side, because I touched on

this a minute ago. It's like the clients that we deal with make a

huge difference in the success that they get when they're a

great client. And sometimes it's simple things like showing up,

and I know that shouldn't be so complex, but we have a monthly

performance meeting, and some of the clients are notoriously late

or notoriously missed meetings or cancel at the last minute.

And it's a subtle thing, right? But I was also a director of

marketing for McDonald's and Coca Cola and sprint, and I had

a bunch of agencies calling on me, and some of the agencies had

their act together, and they showed up and they were ready,

and they had they were on time and on budget, on their project

projects and stuff like that. And so we always try and show up

ready. We've got a report, we've got a PowerPoint, like a Google

Slides, so that we try and respect the client's time, so

we're, like, super organized and ready to go, but by the same

token, the client, if the client shows up 10 minutes late and we

have a 30 minute meeting, guess what? They got 20 minutes of

time to talk about their performance and what we're doing

next. And so something on the agenda is not going to get

covered, right? So it's pretty basic, show up, and then the

next thing is track and report. So we give like we talked about

earlier. We give Kendelle's team all the calls, all the chats and

all the form fills, and then they have to go in and just take

510 minutes and tell us which one's converted into clients.

And then we give that feedback to our SEO and our Google team,

and they figure out like what's working. And then we can do more

of what's working and less of what's not working. But again,

the client has to be on their numbers. Great intake is not

really an option anymore. What I mean by that say. Answering the

phone professionally, having showing empathy and being able

to sell you just you gotta, like Kendelle said, You gotta take

the name, phone number. You've gotta try and get a meeting with

those folks, but and not let them call three other lawyers,

because your odds just went down if you have the empathy and the

professionalism, and if necessary, get them on the phone

with an attorney. Great intake is going to make a huge

difference. Like 50% you're going to you're going to get 50%

more cases if you really nail that. And we've done some

webinars on intake. If you want to learn more about that, have

an open openness to testing best practices. And what I mean by

that is we, when we discover something like the first time I

discovered AI chat intaker that we have on our website, I tested

it by myself first. Then I tried two or three clients who I know

like to test new things once we started recommending that, or

any other software that we discover, or new systems, when

we say it's working for three or four other law firms. Some

people are like, okay, great, let's try it. And some people

just have that hesitant mindset. But when we say something's

working better than something, you have to trust your

professionals. And if you don't trust your professionals, and

we're bringing like data to the party, you're missing out. Have

good case management technology. Run your business like a

business. We're running the EOS operating system, and a lot of

law firms aren't. You don't have to run Eos, but you have to have

a leadership team, regular meetings, track your numbers,

and have an organizational chart and a business plan. And we do a

business planning process every year, an annual business

planning process, so we, if the client doesn't have, like, the

marketing piece of the business plan, figured out, we're going

to do that with them, and then have a scorecard to track your

numbers. That's what we find makes a great client. And the

clients who basically have their act together and run their

business like a business and show up on time, but those are

the clients that we grow with and have success over time, and

they're growing, and the clients that really can't get their act

together, can't answer the phone. Guess what? They blame

us, and they don't get great results. But I think you can

tell from my passion about the difference between winning and

losing, right? Anything else you'd add to that?

No, I think, I think that's just, we do take

these meetings with you guys seriously, right? Because we're

paying, we're paying you a fee to help us and help us do our

business better, and so we make it a priority, really. And

there's always other things. This is the thing about the

business of law is that the law part always feels more

important, and there's always law that wants the law part

wants to interfere with the business part. And so it's a

matter of having that discipline to really say, Okay, no, if I

can't have the clients, if I don't have the clients that I

want, need and best serve, then I'm not really doing law

anyways. So making that time and putting in that commitment and

effort, and also always realizing that we're learning

and growing and evolving, and what works one month or one

season or one year may not be working for you anymore, and

always being open to adjusting that. And one of the things I

appreciate about working with you, Jay is that I talk to you

about my business, and so we can I find I have a mentor in you as

well in terms of, okay, this is what's going on. I'm not really

sure how to deal with this. Do you have any ideas? And that is

something I really appreciate, and that is something that I

find valuable.

Yeah, that's a great point. And please anyone

reach out to me, because I have a unique opportunity now that

I've been doing this for God knows how long, 30 years, but

I'm actively involved with a number of the other vendors in

the industry, and so I spend a lot of time like I do a weekly

podcast, and it's not subtle, but I'm interviewing like all

the top people in the legal industry. We do this monthly

webinar. So please reach out to me if you have any questions

about technology, about Eos, about hiring. I've got tons of

great vendors and people that I've interviewed for an hour on

my podcast. So I know, I know they're really great, so please

don't hesitate to ask, find someone you can trust. So we're

on to questions and answers, and I see a few questions coming in

the chat. Go ahead and in the Q A or the chat, or the LinkedIn

chat, for those of you live on LinkedIn, hey to you all, and

Elizabeth is going to grab the. LinkedIn questions and pass them

on to us. The first question I see is from Colin, and he says,

Are you doing anything specific to link the YouTube videos to

Kendelle's site, such as embedding them there? And the

answer is, yeah, 1,000% that concept of cascading content. So

we start, we'll post the video on YouTube, and then there's a

video section on Kendelle's site. And then the videos are on

Facebook, on on LinkedIn, on Twitter. We use them in a

newsletter. We'll use them on Google Maps. Google Maps, by the

way, is, we didn't talk a lot about it today, but super

important part of the SEO algorithm, and you want to be

updating your Google Maps, getting reviews on a regular

basis. Super valuable, super important. Anything you would

add to that?

Me, no, that's your domain. Make it all happen.

Jay,

okay, great. We've got a question from Josh

on LinkedIn, what were the very first steps Kendelle and your

team took to kick off this growth? Was there a specific

area you focused on first

when I first thing I did was get a website.

When I first went out, I didn't even have a website, I think

what I did so I got a website, spent a lot of time really

getting that content up and going. And there was a lot of

little things that I did. I think one of the things I did,

quite frankly, was I joined Great Legal Marketing and I did

their whatever process they had. Basically what they did was they

said, Okay, join this group, and then we give you tasks. So you

do tasks A, B and C, and then when you're done, you let us

know and we'll send you a gift card. And so I just did whatever

they told me, and that's how it happened. So some of the initial

things that I did was send out what were called referral

letters. So I chose just 25 businesses that were near to me

in terms of where my office location was. I chose criminal

lawyers, I chose counselors, I chose accountants, and I sent

out these referral letters and said, Hey, I'm getting referrals

for people who need services like you, I introduced myself,

told them a little bit about myself, and I'd love to do

coffee with you, or I'd love to get to know you. And these were

COVID days, right? So I think it was a zoom call at that was

coffee over zoom. And that was really efficient, because again,

what I find is small business owners. We all want to support

each other, and so that was a really big kickoff for me,

putting together content, so doing the information marketing.

So when people come for an consult at my firm, they leave

with information. So if they're coming in to talk about child

support, I've got handouts on the law and child support, they

leave with a small gift. They leave with confidence that they

know they have been in the right place, because we do little

things like little success cues around the office to let them

know that we actually know what we're talking about, I think the

referral letters, if you were to do pick one thing that would be

the best, and then you've got to do the follow up. The key is the

follow up. And it's the worst part. It's the part that's the

hardest. It takes the most discipline. But if you have a

legal assistant, have your legal assistant get on your butt about

it, and just go through with it, set the plan and follow through

regardless, then you'll get there. And

do you remember some of the things that we did

together when you started working with us as an agency?

I remember we had lots of meetings about my

business and what we're looking for, and then just the content,

like we just started getting out a lot of content, and again,

it's just getting out the information for people. I don't

know, what am I forgetting? Jay, it's been a while. Yeah,

yeah, it's been a year and a half or so. One of

the things we do early on is we do a real deep dive SEO audit.

Because when we meet someone in the sales business development

cycle, we're looking at the website from the outside in. But

once we become your partner and get access to your Google,

there's a thing called Search Console, or Webmaster Tools, and

it actually is a bunch of diagnostic that Google gives us

on the website. So now we're looking behind the curtain, if

you will. So we do a deep dive on that. We look at competitors,

what your competitors are ranking for, and find a whole

bunch of keywords that we want to rank for. You also had a pay

per click campaign. We didn't cover that, but we're getting a

lot of great leads from the paid advertising as well Google Pay

per click. And one of the interesting things for. Those of

you in the United States, Canada hasn't launched local service

ads or Google screen yet, so we don't have that little tool at

our disposal. But the Pay Per Click, therefore, is more

focused in Canada. So we do a deep dive audit on the SEO the

pay per click. We looked at your Google Maps, and typically

there's some best practices that the previous agency didn't know

about there's you can do 50 different things with your GBP

Google business profile, to optimize it, to pick the right

like a lot of people just have law, they don't even have the

practice areas. And you can designate, I think, six practice

areas, so you're going to come up when people search for that

type of law going out and looking at your link profile,

who's linking to your website, and then we build a whole bunch

of links. We we have a list of a whole bunch of directories, and

we search other associations and directories that link to the

firm, and make sure the address is correct and all the

information is correct. A lot of times that's incorrect and

changes, and Google's a computer, so everything's got to

be super precise. The first round for us is a lot of audit

and best practices and cleaning up a bunch of stuff like that.

We the copy was very important, like we had to learn about your

persona, and so we didn't nail it right out of the gate. And

then what we did is we had the writer and the editor on a call

and interviewed Kendelle for about an hour and a half and had

a whole bunch of questions. And then I think the we got our

messaging a lot better after that.

Yeah, for sure, in the beginning, yeah, it

was okay. I needed to do a lot more editing and things like

that, whereas now my the editing is almost it's very nominal.

It's very nominal. So it took a while, and I think too to keep

in mind, I think again though this goes from as your firm

grows and evolves, your marketing needs grow involved,

right? So when I first started, it was just me and a legal

assistant, and the referrals were enough to just get me

going. But then, as you grow, things need to become more and

more sophisticated, but certainly getting those and you

need to make sure your marketing grows with you, as opposed to

holding you back. And that was one of the things that

struggled. We've struggled with actually, as a firm, and for me

personally, because I can get all these ideas, but then I

can't implement them, and then I'm also my my knowledge and

expertise, so to speak, is in law and not in marketing. So it

was really helpful for me to have you guys do all these

things that I knew about, like landing pages and getting all

the service pages up and going and all these things. And it was

really nice, because the service pages, they just happened, and

they were bang on right. And so it was all these things on my to

do list that I knew didn't know about.

I want an agency to write internal pages for my

website. Because the worst thing for tangled rules is like, when

we try and do our own stuff, we're like the shoemakers.

Children have holes in their shoes. Yeah, the last thing, the

last client that gets attention is me. Here's a question from

Carrie Kendelle, what specific marketing move made the biggest

difference in helping you grow your family law firm so quickly?

How can other attorneys apply that to their practice

specific marketing move, there isn't one.

There is no golden hammer that you can just hang bang on the

table and poof, you've got growth. I think the thing is,

you know, align yourself with partners who have the same

values as you and really understand what your vision is,

and have people help you, because you can't, you can't do

it all yourself. One of the books I read, and I can't

remember the author now, that's just been instrumental, and just

even the title, I remind myself of the title, and it's called,

who, not how. We don't need to be experts in every little

aspect of our business, but we need to align with those who can

help us get the things done that we need to get done. Really, I

think the biggest thing too, is hire before you're ready,

because you're never going to feel ready. So just make that

jump, make that leap, make an informed leap, but still make

that leap. The biggest thing too, is acknowledging your

comfort zone. Okay, well, I'm feeling nervous. I'm feeling

uncomfortable here, pushing through that comfort zone,

because if you don't push through your comfort zone,

you're never going to grow and hiring an agency, hiring people

around you, I wish we hired 10 golden rules earlier. Quite

frankly, I think we'd be further along than we are right now.

Awesome. Thank you so much. You're welcome. I'm

being honest. Do not house a great book. It is. Yeah, it's

Dan Sullivan. Man who's originally an American, but he

lives in Toronto, and his business is out of Toronto, and

he has an amazing mastermind. But the concept's great. It's

instead of saying, I need to do this, I need to do this, always

ask yourself, Who can do this? Who can I get to do this? And

another I'll give you, if you haven't read Dan Martel's book,

buy back your time. Another great Canadian, he has a similar

philosophies. Just get great people to do the work for you,

and don't feel like you have to do all the work. All right, so

we got time maybe for one more depends how long my answer is,

Jay, what are the core systems or strategies you implement for

law firms that consistently lead to rapid growth in leads clients

and sign cases, instead of, like, core systems or

strategies, I would say there's stuff that moves quicker and

there's stuff that moves slower, and so what we recommend to our

clients is you want to do both concurrently. So for Kendelle,

the pay per click is going to move faster because we can

immediately like, if it's working and working, we define

by cost per lead and cost per sign case. So we measure like,

if we spend, Kendelle Google account spends $3,000 how many

calls did she get? How many forms, how many chats? So always

measuring three intake sections and how many of those turned

into signed clients. So if she gets 100 leads, it's $30 a click

on Google. And if she signs 10 clients, and it's $3,000 spend,

it's $300 cost per signed client. And if that metric works

for the firm, like if your clients are worth more, a lot

more than $300 to the firm, we might turn the budget up a

little bit next month, and the Pay Per Click works quickly in

Kendelle, case, in Canada, in the United States, we're always

going to target the local service ads the Google screened

LSAs, so jet, we'd love it if a client hasn't turned on their

LSAs, because Google generally gives a new LSA account a little

bit of love, and it's going to send 3040, 50 leads over the

first three or four months. And if you answer the phone and you

disposition the leads, and we show them how to use the

software, the Google back end will generally get those leads

on a consistent basis, month after month. So the paid stuff

can get the traffic relatively quickly, and then the SEO takes

a little bit longer. So we're going to start working. I talked

about optimizing the Google business profile, the Google

Maps and the SEO. We talked a lot about doing the videos,

doing the content, doing the articles, and generally, that

stuff's going to take three to six months till it starts slowly

kicking in. And you all saw the chart like over a year and a

half candles gone from, I don't know, 30 or 40 keywords, to 500

keywords that are ranking on the top of Google. So it definitely

takes time. But if we work concurrently at those things,

it's beneficial, and also it's super beneficial too. Like

there's a subtlety to doing the videos and doing the content.

When people come to your website and they if they watch the

videos and you answer the question, and they feel like

they could trust you, they're going to call you up. Same

thing. If they find an article, they read the article and you're

answering the question, they're going to they're going to click

on the chat or the call button on your website. So producing

the content helps your website convert, even though the SEO

takes three, six months to start kicking in, really 12 months

till it's really a power drive, I think we're right about time.

So Kendelle, thank you so much for doing this. This was

awesome. Where can people find you, if they're live or if

they're watching us? Sometime in the future,

you can find us at our website, peer, family

lawyers.com P, I, E, R, family lawyers.com and or you can find

us at our phone number, 604-560-8285, but thank you so

much for inviting me, Jay. It's been a lot of fun,

awesome, and Jay Berkowitz at 10 golden rules t e

n Golden rules.com and I'm Jay Berkowitz on LinkedIn, Facebook,

Twitter, all the social media I try and get there before the

other more important Jay Berkowitz is Dr Jay Berkowitz

and Professor Jay Berkowitz. And I apologize to those guys,

because I've always got the Jay Berkowitz on Twitter and

LinkedIn, but Kendelle, thank you so much. This was awesome,

and I look forward to our next meeting together and seeing you

in DC for great. Yes,

see you soon. Thanks.

Bye. Bye.