David Applebaum Architect, has established himself as one of the preeminent architects in Southern California. Cuba Gooding Jr., Diane Keaton, Frank Sinatra, Rupert Murdoch, Brad Grey, Bob Hope, Adrienne Barbeau, Hiro Yamagata and Shari Lewis are just some of the famous clients who have chosen Applebaum to design their homes. High-profile clients for commercial projects include Quincy Jones, Esprit and Virgin Records. Through his interdisciplinary studio; David Applebaum, widely known as Architect to the Stars, creates works that blend architecture, interior design and landscape design into one complete design. His designs are an expression of the life and taste of each client; every commission is a uniquely choreographed blend of the clients dreams, the settings personality and the architects insight. Prior to opening his Bel Air, California studio, he established his credentials and reputation at the architectural offices of Edward Grenzbach and Franklin Israel in Los Angeles and Joe D’Urso in New York. He’s been a guest lecturer and critic at numerous colleges and universities, and is a contributing architecture/design/lifestyle writer for The Huffington Post. David Applebaum’s stature as a designer has led to appearances in several television shows. David is the host of “American Mansion” on the National Geographic Channel, and is producing several television shows about architecture, design, green living and lifestyle.

We talk with our friend David about how to bring an Architect into your project and the real value they bring to building and remodeling.

For More information about David head to his website: https://www.davidapplebaum.com/

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[00:00:08] David Applebaum: You know, many architects will, somebody will say, look, I know you're busy or I'm in another town. I'm looking at these three architects, will you look at their websites? Jeremy architects have websites that just have 3d renderings of projects and not actual constructed houses. I have seen so many architects that beat, um, w where my son was going to school.

[00:00:52] David Applebaum: I said, there's not one project that was built when it comes to remodeling and renovating your home. There is a lot to [00:01:00] know this is around the house.

[00:01:21] Caroline Blazovsky: the best architect, the best. I think he's like one of the funniest guests we have. So when he comes on, I always laugh because he's just so comical and just so easy.

[00:01:35] Eric Goranson: and you see them on our social media. He's around everywhere. David Applebaum to the starchitect to the stars. Welcome back.

[00:01:59] Eric Goranson: Wow. This is a [00:02:00] family show and we're not going to get into that today.

[00:02:37] Eric Goranson: And I'm going, this is already such a bad way to start. I call those people dreamers many times, because I know that there's no way that's going to get off the ground from that angle.

[00:02:56] Eric Goranson: You know, I love let's, let's dive into this.

[00:03:12] David Applebaum: Oh, that, that is such a loaded question. And it's funny because not even major, I've got a friend who lives in San Diego who said, I want to open up my kitchen and my living room and my dining room.

[00:03:54] David Applebaum: Um, I have said to you before, if you're throwing, let me [00:04:00] start by saying, I hear a lot of people say, what do I need an architect for? I've lived in houses, all of my life. I know what I like. I've got good taste. Well, you don't go to a wedding reception. And say, you know what I've cooked before. And I know what I like when I eat.

[00:04:28] Caroline Blazovsky: no, no. I was going to say, I think people get scared when they hear the word architect, because they think it's just automatically a big ticket item. And that's just my, I mean, I may be wrong with that.

[00:05:07] David Applebaum: Um, can you give me a couple of pointers? Because sometimes we don't know everything either. Is it it'd be easier if I show you the drawings, but before I do, before I do, I want you to promise you won't give me any judgment because this was a client that only paid me $7,000 to do the architecture. So they got a box and I made it really clear for $7,000.

[00:05:56] David Applebaum: It doesn't have to be expensive as a whole. I'm [00:06:00] a full service architect. You hire me. I'm there from, uh, evaluation of your program. Uh, taking a close look at the codes. I'm doing a project right now that the client was smart enough to say I had an architect that said he would do it for $5,000. Here's the drawings, something seems wrong about it.

[00:06:45] David Applebaum: And if you would have gotten built, it would have cost you a hundred thousand dollars in variants, geesh. So I tell all of my clients, I guarantee you that when you hire me, I [00:07:00] will save you as much money as my fee, if not more, by knowing how to do the right thing. And they didn't finish, you know, full service goes all the way through watching the construction process.

[00:07:30] David Applebaum: Or you have to put it in this way before all approve you, getting a chance to get paid for it.

[00:07:50] Eric Goranson: They will go on to that. They will bid the house project to remodel or whatever else. And I will see where everything's itemized. You can see that they have [00:08:00] materials that are on par with that level of construction. And I'm like, okay, budgets are great. And then there's that handful of them out there that love.

[00:08:17] David Applebaum: and not just one and not just one change order. If a change order is about $4,000 or even $2,000. Okay. Which might not seem like a lot in a $200,000 house, you do 10 of those and you've added 10% to the price. That's the reason why when the architect is involved and your bidding, the project, the architect has a responsibility to look into what the contract there is like.

[00:09:08] David Applebaum: It, isn't going to charge a penny extra. So

[00:09:20] David Applebaum: Wow. See, that's another loaded question because I know this happened to me so often when I was younger, I would interview to do a house and the client would say, I want to redo my kitchen on the first floor, redo my utility room, open up the den.

[00:10:12] David Applebaum: My guesstimate is you're talking about a million dollar project and I would never hear from them again until a year and a half, two years later. And then I'd get a call and they'd say, so we went in with this architect who has his own contractor. He works with all the time and he said he could get it done for $500,000.

[00:10:51] David Applebaum: It's now a year and a half later, we have fresh. And we have already put out checks of $480,000. And this is clearly [00:11:00] going to be a million dollar project, like you said, and we're kicking ourselves wishing we would have hired you because if we're going to spend a million dollars, we should have gotten the good architecture.

[00:11:28] Eric Goranson: and then on top of that, David, you have to have as a homeowner, you have to bring everyone in together.

[00:12:01] David Applebaum: to be fun.

[00:12:26] David Applebaum: I could be a terrible architect and you could have a good builder and at least you'll have a solid house. The key is to find a good architect and a good builder that work well together. I, I, you know, I've been doing it long. I'm always excited to meet new builders. I've got a project right now that the client said, oh, a friend of mine has a great builder.

[00:13:11] David Applebaum: We can start ordering four months ahead of time, three months ahead of time, get everything that we need, especially the ones with long runtimes. And we know we're getting a great project. And by the way, when I'm looking at contractors, I have a very, um, uh, secret way that I test out contractors. But see, I've been around long enough.

[00:13:59] David Applebaum: And [00:14:00] they're having really good relations with good subcontracts with their own, you know, the contractor usually isn't the plumber, isn't the framer is the electrician, or if he's one of them, he's not all of them. And he's certainly not also the tile guy and the carpet guy. So they need to have good subs that do great work.

[00:14:39] David Applebaum: No problem. And the gold standard, they have a credit account with us. Yeah. We don't demand payment because we know they're good for it. We trust them. We have a long relationship. Those are the guys that want to work with, or girls. I have women contractors. I work with, you

[00:15:03] Eric Goranson: Cause I've worked with hundreds of contractors over the years as a kitchen and bath designer. And that's one of the things that stone yard is dealing with a contractor late in the project. So schedules get blown up with schedules, get blown up. It affects the stone yard the most, because they're trying to get in there towards the end of the project.

[00:15:41] David Applebaum: Oh, you got my little secret. That's what, and yeah, that's exactly why I go with them.

[00:16:10] David Applebaum: When I was working for somebody, I, you know, I did Frank Sinatra's train room and then Frank went to my old boss to do his beach house and. I mean, look, the guy had some issues. He'd lost the last living relative in his life, in his family. And he was not in a good place. And he showed up and he had had a couple too many and they were, they said, no, no, no, we don't want to work with this.

[00:17:04] David Applebaum: We, in ways, for instance, for instance, they had a bad electrician and so the wiring never, the lights didn't work. The gate operator didn't work all of these and I'd sit, please, let me get you a good contractor, please, please. So on this one, it was a little more complicated said, please let me get you one of my better contractors, which they hired.

[00:17:47] David Applebaum: Cheap now, and they want it so cheap and so free. And there's so many Arctic saying, well, I'm willing to do that house for $4,000. Like my former employee did, even though the proper fee would be 20, [00:18:00] I'll do it for four, but they're only going to get a box. Well, he was smart. He only did a box. I've seen so many houses where you look at the elevation and it doesn't match the plan, which doesn't match the cross section.

[00:18:37] David Applebaum: But if you're like me and you put the time into making sure, I mean, you know, as well as I do, cause you all know. I build models of every single project I ever do. And I do it because you a drawing. If you've seen it in C Escher sketch, you can have a staircase that goes right into itself. You can lie [00:19:00] on a two dimensional format trying to draw something three-dimensional, but a model never lies.

[00:19:37] David Applebaum: And the guy who ran the crew. Walked over to me and said, I'm going home with a six pack of beer and your role of drawings. Nobody ever gets the roof. Right. I'm getting freaking meet me here tomorrow at eight. And I'll tell you where you went wrong. It was like, okay. And I'm thinking I did a [00:20:00] model. I mean, I guess it's possible.

[00:20:29] Eric Goranson: Exactly. Caroline, you had a question over there.

[00:20:47] Caroline Blazovsky: They have no answers. They've run up, practice bills, testing and whatnot. And then they get to me or to David or whoever, or. And they're like, well, you need to do a cheap, cause I spent so much, I've made these mistakes [00:21:00] along the line. And now somehow the person who's going to do it right. Has to compensate financially for all the mistakes that were made.

[00:21:20] Caroline Blazovsky: So what

[00:21:38] David Applebaum: ever. I just turned, I was told I have a construction manager that has hired me to be an architect on a couple of projects.

[00:22:09] David Applebaum: Wasn't actually done to the drawings and they have to fix it. And I said, whoa, that's not what you told me. And I hate to tell you when I was 20, I would have figured out a way I would eat. I would have lost money, but I would have done it for the relationship. That quite honestly, you can't count on. Nope.

[00:22:51] David Applebaum: Not one of those projects were built because the client was the, was the crazy one and it's not our [00:23:00] responsibility to fix crazy. So if you're going to always change the rules and like one of those clients, it was a $12 million project. You bet I'm going to take over a $12 million house. Cause my fees would be astronomical and it would be three years worth of work.

[00:23:39] David Applebaum: And I now have in my Kieron jet contract, when I redesign it, we start all over again. But I, I kept my percentage to the point where it went from 12 to 10, seven and a half to five to three to, well, what can do for a million and a half. And, oh, by the way, we've paid you so much money. You owe us, [00:24:00] you're going to do the rest of it for free.

[00:24:05] Eric Goranson: Well, Caroline, you and I, on the contractor side of this, we have, you know, a client that you're working with that has got a, we you've heard us talk about it on the show a little bit in the past a basement project that went sideways. And the first two people that I reached out to that could possibly take on the job that came in from a great referral.

[00:24:43] David Applebaum: You have to really want to take a loss like that.

[00:25:22] David Applebaum: Uh, um, comments abuse or yeah, character assassination. Yeah. It's it's you know, and so sometimes you, I hate to say it, but sometimes you just have to keep your eye on the ball and take care of what you need to take care of. Um, you know, I mean, by the same token, what's getting tougher architects like myself, as it used to be, somebody would call me and say, Hey, our kids are now almost elementary school age.

[00:26:17] David Applebaum: And then they would pick one and you would do it. And you would get your permit in six months and you'd build it in nine months and they'd be in it within, within two years, usually within a year and a half, but certainly within two years. Well now with the permit process, especially with COVID, it now takes two years to get a permit and then it takes another nine months to build.

[00:27:09] David Applebaum: I was looking at some of these that were available and there were ones that had $250,000 with a foundation repair that needed to be done. And the flippers came in with cash and paid as much as a brand new house would be on that street. And there's no way that they would spend the kind of, I mean, I'm telling you, every wall was cracked.

[00:27:54] David Applebaum: Something absolutely worthless, but there isn't that much opportunity for [00:28:00] architecture, which is why so many architects are giving their services away. And if you want just the box, if you want an elevation that doesn't match a floor plan, then yeah. That's the cheap way to go, but it'll end up costing you so much in the long run, but it's hard to get the word out.

[00:28:43] Caroline Blazovsky: So when you're choosing now, when you're choosing your contractor architect, no, but when you're choosing us or choosing your contractor, your architect, your consultants, you need to make sure that they are qualified. And, you know, [00:29:00] in my organization, there's places, people can go one to find out if you've got your appropriate credentialing, your education, but then also reading, bio's finding out where people went talking to other people like, you know, if you go on David's website, you're going to find out a whole bunch about him, his background, where did he train?

[00:29:35] Caroline Blazovsky: Right. But at the end of the day, you can rely on that. You have to realize you're going to have to pay out for somebody. And for expertise,

[00:29:59] David Applebaum: I'm looking at these [00:30:00] three architects, will you look at their websites? Do you have any architects have websites that just have 3d renderings of projects and not actual constructed houses? I have seen so many architects that the, um, where my son was going to school, they, they said, we want to hire you as, as the architect for the campus.

[00:30:41] David Applebaum: Not one, they're all computer rendered. That means they either couldn't meet the budget. They couldn't get the permit or they pissed off the client and got fired. That's not who you want to hire. You want to hire somebody that you can actually see that they've done work and talk to people and say, [00:31:00] yeah, this was David.

[00:31:13] Eric Goranson: So true. So

[00:31:24] David Applebaum: And then he goes crazy.

[00:31:43] David Applebaum: Yes. W and you know what, I'm going to answer with the double-edged sword answer, because I F I cannot tell you when your clients say, and I want to put in there a hefty financial penalty, if they don't get it done by X date.

[00:32:20] David Applebaum: That's next door to another project that was way over budget, because the client bought a house in Malibu. I signed the contract in December. They wanted to move in July 4th weekend. That was six months to draw it, permit it and get it built. Wow. This is like extreme home makeover. We paid a lot. They paid a lot of overtime.

[00:33:09] Eric Goranson: And that's such a waste of time because so many people are stepping over the top of each other.

[00:33:21] David Applebaum: know, well, in Latin, in last, you have, and in this case, one of the best builders in all of Los Angeles who had a job captain, that was the spreadsheet king. Got it. And I will admit, and you know, it was, I had the same kind of, um, uh, a bonus structure.

[00:34:05] David Applebaum: And of course I was happy to do it. Yeah. The superintendent said to me, the framer, because we had so many people on top of each other, the framer is persnickety, and he's going to get his feelings hurt, and he's going to go stomping off the job site. And your job is to walk over to him and put your hand on his shoulder and say, Dave's name is Dave.

[00:34:44] Eric Goranson: talk him off the ledge, talk them off the ledge. But you

[00:35:05] David Applebaum: Gets the work done by the sub, the substance, a bill, the bill gets then submitted to the client. The client pays the bill to the contractor, and then the contractor pays the sub, correct. This contractor on this job said to every sub, I will pay you the day you give me a bill. Wow. If you do the work that I'm asking you to do, I will pay you out of my own pocket.

[00:36:01] Eric Goranson: Cool, what my question is now, does it hurt quality when you put that kind of thing in there? When they're trying to get things done early for that financial gain, that's always the million dollar. Yes.

[00:36:31] David Applebaum: And that was one of the reasons I will say this. I may be the Tasmanian devil when you piss me off. But when you're doing the job, there is nobody that's more complimentary and nobody that is more supportive and has your back better than me. So that's why I was there at the job site every day. I was there as much as a cheerleader.

[00:37:19] David Applebaum: Hmm. Wow. It's pristine. Pristine. The only thing that ever happened to that house that was not was it's in Malibu. We had the, was it the Woolsey fire two years ago, there was smoke damage. So the paint had to be scrubbed and redone and you know, that was, that was it. And that has nothing to do with the quality of the work.

[00:38:07] Eric Goranson: You know, the way that they wrap the outside, the flashings, that kind of stuff. And in today's day and age, especially in an area like me with Portland, where I'm located, where, you know, water intrusion is a massive issue. What are you seeing out there? What is a good way to, to get that project started with the builder to make sure that they understand that because many times you're not specifying those systems, but you're leaning on the builder to do that correctly on the exterior and thus leading into all the healthy home implications inside the house.

[00:38:55] David Applebaum: This, this goes back to what I was saying, where a contractor needs to have the [00:39:00] best subcontractors, because the contractor isn't, the waterproofer is not, the framer is not the electrician. And so, um, it's one of the reasons why I like going to job sites and talking to the people cause I'll ask them. So when I've heard about, what do you think about, what do you do when, um, those are the questions that I like to ask because you're right.

[00:39:49] David Applebaum: They're so unhealthy. You know, we li I live in California where there's so many energy standards that you have to meet, and it basically creates an ice cooler [00:40:00] where it's so seal, you have one drop of water. It's not getting any air, it's not getting any light. It turns into rancid mold eventually. And

[00:40:46] David Applebaum: Okay. Because someone has to be the owner's agent and make sure that what it is that they want is done correctly for a fair price. And so hopefully you hire somebody like me that tries to take your [00:41:00] lifestyle and figure out how to make the best house that choreographs your life best. Everyone's different when you just, when you wake up in the morning, so people have to brush your teeth.

[00:41:33] David Applebaum: And you're also, I can't tell you many times I've been called because somebody says I have a $2 million budget. I hired an architect. The bids came in the lowest one was 6.2 million. Not two. I can't afford that. What do we. And so it's like, well, you have to start all over again. You can't just take out this and that.

[00:42:23] David Applebaum: So then you want to make sure that that architect is part of the process to pick the right contractor. She don't just go for the low bid. You go for the fair bid and then you watch it and make sure that it gets built so that it is the right kind of waterproofing and is the right kind of seal. And that it is the right kind of air conditioning.

[00:43:08] David Applebaum: If it doesn't fit, let's put it in the corner. Well, you put it in the corner and Elvis and the furniture doesn't work. Yup. You know, what are you thinking about? No, no.

[00:43:31] Caroline Blazovsky: A lot of my clients who've done green builds or even lead builds that architect is their key go-to person for product selection and knowing what's going to be environment. Savvy. And what's going to work with the house. And especially a lot of my clients who have allergy and chemical sensitivity needs.

[00:43:59] Eric Goranson: Can I tell you how much [00:44:00] I hate lead builds by the way designer, how much I hate

[00:44:07] Eric Goranson: okay, we're in a lead community. I was doing this house in a lead community and they had to do lead and they wanted to do the kitchen cabinets out of this straw material and this stuff, excuse me, I'm sorry.

[00:44:29] David Applebaum: He was like even more crap and kitchen or a bathroom.

[00:45:02] David Applebaum: And I'm not exaggerating, not just will. It probably not last long. When I was doing Cuba Jr's house, he gave me his budget and I said, okay, do you want to green lead kind of how sort of course I do. I said, okay, for that price, I can give you a 4,000 square foot house, or I can give you a 3000 square foot, maybe 2,800 square foot greenhouse.

[00:46:04] David Applebaum: We'll put in stone floors, you know, we'll put windows with shade in the right place oriented, just right. We'll get it so that you, you know, you, you have the materials that are the best materials. They may not be on a scale of one to 10. That lead house has a material that's on a green level of 10, but on a construction level, it's a two.

[00:46:41] Caroline Blazovsky: untenable, no, go ahead and delete the lead standard just for people who who know about lead it's a metric system.

[00:47:07] Caroline Blazovsky: So anyone out there who is energy and other, and

[00:47:56] David Applebaum: Right. So, you know, look, I live in Los Angeles [00:48:00] when I was a kid. I would watch the tonight show and I would watch laughing and they would joke about the brown skies. Okay. We are not perfect, but we have not had a small gallery in Los Angeles since I've lived here, unless there's a forest fire and there's smoke particulate in the air for natural reasons, but we are improving.

[00:48:44] David Applebaum: So what do they do? They wrap it with soy. Well guess what rats and mice and raccoons like to eat, you know, soy where you had the car guide, who was talking about a mushroom seats. Uh, you know,[00:49:00]

[00:49:11] Caroline Blazovsky: You put a car out in the heat in LA with just a little bit of moisture that gets trapped in there with a mushroom soup. Like you're gonna have mushroom soup. That's disgusting. How's that

[00:49:23] David Applebaum: What if it's one of those mushrooms that is psychedelic driving, that's the San Francisco

[00:49:41] David Applebaum: And this also goes to prove, and this is something that. This is not necessarily as much to do with construction and architecture, but we live in a world now where everybody likes to complain about everything.

[00:50:15] David Applebaum: It's powered by solar. It works. But because that, it isn't as efficient, they say, you know, it looks solar doesn't really work. It's not really well. There's always a way to find a problem in anything. Look, there's something nice to be said about zero energy houses, because it doesn't take energy. I get that, but there's also a bigger picture and it's easy to complain.

[00:51:00] David Applebaum: And, you know, I think one of the things I love about this show and the both of you I've, I've, I've come to really appreciate the two of you as people, because you're really smart and you're very opinionated, but you're also very open and you're willing to listen to both sides or the three sides of an argument and make an intelligent decision.

[00:51:40] David Applebaum: There's a load bearing wall. You'll do something like this, you know, have the engineer. You know, then just have your contractor follow all the details, the molding and all that stuff. That's in the existing house and you're done, you know, and then he called me and, you know, he called me and said, I want to put outdoor heaters.

[00:52:10] Eric Goranson: no, but I mean, here's the thing, you know, I always recommend that people figure out on any kind of a big project, figure out what your budget is in your head first.

[00:52:37] David Applebaum: there. Well, I'm going to add to that.

[00:53:11] David Applebaum: Um, cause I wanted to see what it felt like and, and you know, it was, it was my house. So I could always add that later on. But the point is, even if it's not a large project, if you go to the right person, You can get something. And I'm very proud of what I did. I'm doing a garage right now. And the client said I'm only spending X amount of dollars, but I want some, I, they have kind of this mid-century modern classic house.

[00:54:00] David Applebaum: A beautiful, I was like

[00:54:20] David Applebaum: I regret to say. Yeah. I don't know if it's a single question as much as a series of questions that would have to do with their zine philosophy, how they work with contractors, how they estimate the prices of construction, what their success rate is. I mean, when I was younger, you know, so many times I have $300,000, like, okay.

[00:55:05] David Applebaum: You know, they're, they're, they're fluctuating on a daily basis, but, um, you know, I would personally ask to talk to past clients because I think that's probably, this is a, when you hire an architect, It's a relationship. If you're, if it's, if it's short, it lasts six months, but in most cases, it's a two to four year process that you're with so long time and, and, and actually a lifelong, I mean, I'm, I can't tell how many projects I've worked on over the years.

[00:55:55] David Applebaum: I said, no, I should get paid. And so he said, you know what? We've, [00:56:00] we've known each other for 20 years. I don't want to destroy this relationship. Let's take this. We also were thinking about doing XYZ. How much would you want to get paid for this piece? These drawings plus XYZ. And we came up with, you know, something that worked to both of our satisfaction.

[00:56:39] Eric Goranson: It's a new construction house. You, as the homeowner have something you have to do, and that is to get your own life in order. This is going to be through a building process, through modeling process something that's going to be stressful, whether or not you're living in the house or not. And you're going to have [00:57:00] decisions you're going to have to make.

[00:57:37] Eric Goranson: And it's not the place to take them to start a project

[00:58:01] David Applebaum: He, he supported, I have the four projects I worked on with him and six that I followed afterwards. None of them got built of those 10. Didn't get built because they ended in divorce and two didn't get built because the client had a heart attack. Wow. So, you know, I, but the thing is that really taught me how important my part is in a evaluating the clients, because you know, what's funny, what's also a bad client is not only someone who hasn't gotten their life together, but newlyweds, both of them say, what do you want whenever you want?

[00:59:03] David Applebaum: And my job is to say, okay, the two of you stop, take a breath. I believe that what he's saying, the essence of it is he wants more. Freedom to move around from this spot to the other while you want to emphasize this, I think I can give you what you both want by moving this refrigerator from this wall to this wall.

[00:59:56] David Applebaum: I had three years of internship. I had [01:00:00] four days in 42 hours worth of exams. To take to get my license. Okay. There's continuing education, plus all these other soft bits like psychology and that, and it just makes it, we, you know, you're you, you're hiring, not somebody to draw plans. At least when you hire me, you're not hiring somebody to draw plans.

[01:00:45] Eric Goranson: David, on that, I think we should wrap because that is the perfect ending for this episode.

[01:00:54] David Applebaum: Thank you. I just hope I sometimes it's like, we're like, what the hell did I just say? [01:01:00] The logic that this add mind is going all over the place with

[01:01:16] David Applebaum: Yeah, I got into several arguments with people that was, I hired people to do it and they I'd say, can you scoot this over to the left? Like, oh, come on. I was like, you know what, I'm just going to do it myself.

[01:01:30] David Applebaum: Hey, love you guys. Be well, everyone out there stay safe, stay healthy and try to live in beautiful light.

[01:01:39] Eric Goranson: G and I'm Caroline B and you've been listening to