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In this episode, Dr. Jane Levesque, a naturopathic doctor and natural fertility expert, delves into the complexities of secondary infertility. Drawing from personal experiences and professional insights, she discusses the emotional and physical challenges women face when trying to conceive after a successful first pregnancy. Dr. Levesque emphasizes the importance of understanding one's body, addressing underlying health issues, and preparing holistically for pregnancy. She offers practical advice on managing stress, improving mitochondrial function, and detoxifying the environment to enhance fertility. Tune in for a compassionate and informative guide to navigating secondary infertility.

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Key Takeaways

00:01:02: Introduction to Secondary Infertility

00:03:04: Questions to Ask Yourself About Your Cycle and Pregnancy History

00:05:37: Importance of Understanding Pregnancy as a Complex Process

00:09:12: Personal Experience with Postpartum Depression

00:11:14: Importance of Finding Answers and Shifting Perspective

00:13:15: Causes of Secondary Infertility and Mitochondrial Dysfunction

00:15:50: Symptoms and Impact of Mitochondrial Dysfunction

00:18:23: Importance of Collecting Data and Lab Testing

00:20:25: Cleaning Up Your Environment and Detoxification

00:22:57: Importance of Repairing and Rebuilding Postpartum

00:24:59: Listening to Your Body and Managing Expectations

00:26:31: Transformative Experience of Secondary Infertility Patients

Memorable Quotes

"If you had a pregnancy and you weren't taking really good supplements or you maybe had a more traumatic experience, and you didn't focus on repairing and rebuilding yourself, you could actually deplete yourself even more. It's really important to take the time to repair and recover because it's such a big thing."

"Mitochondria is highly concentrated in areas where we need a lot of energy, like our muscles, like our heart, like our brain, like our ovaries, like our sperm. Because guess what? Embryogenesis, the development of the embryo, takes a lot of freaking energy."

"If you're struggling with infertility, but I also bet that you have some of the following symptoms: difficulty losing weight, poor muscle mass, brain fog, tiredness, indigestion, puffiness, inflammation, acne. Those are all signs of mitochondrial dysfunction."

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Website - https://www.drjanelevesque.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/drjanelevesque/

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/DrJaneLevesque/

YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@dr.janelevesque7319

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Dr. Jane Levesque

And so everybody is different. And I've seen women tell me all the time the pregnancy was healthy, but I gained 50 pounds. And I'm always like, so which one is it? Was the pregnancy healthy or did you gain 50 pounds? Because gaining 50 pounds is not healthy during pregnancy. Maybe your doctor told you that it was, but in reality it's not. And even if you're a petite person, your baby's probably going to be more on the petite side. You shouldn't be gaining 50 pounds in your pregnancy. Pregnancy is a natural process. So if it's not happening or if it's not sticking, something is missing. After having a family member go through infertility and experiencing a miscarriage myself, I realized how little support and education women have around infertility. I want to change that. I'm doctor Jane Levesque. I'm a naturopathic doctor and a natural fertility expert. Tune in every Tuesday at 09:00 a.m. for insightful case studies, expert interviews, and practical tips on how you can optimize fertility naturally. If you've been struggling with infertility, pregnancy loss, women's health issues, or you just want to be proactive and prepare yourself for the next big chapter in your life, this show is for you. Today I want to talk to you about secondary infertility. There are so many frustrations when it comes to secondary infertility. You did it before. Why can't you do it again? You know, there's a different level of guilt that you feel. You feel like you can't make a sibling for your kid. Your family feels incomplete. You have this insane pressure that you have put yourself and you feel like you have just, you're letting your family down. So I experienced my miscarriage after having, you know, my first child. And another kind of little fear that came up, besides the fact that I might not be able to do it again, is, oh, my God, my kids are going to be too far apart. They're not going to get along. We're not there. We're going to be stuck in the diaper phase for too long. So we have all these pressures, unknown pressures that I would say we put on ourselves, and we don't really realize how much pressure we put ourselves under until we experience something like secondary infertility. So here's what I want you guys to do is, number one, I want you to acknowledge what you're going through and be kind to yourself because there is a lot that's going, what you're going through, and we're going to unpack some of those things for you here today to hopefully give you some space to breathe, to be a little bit more graceful and to reevaluate. Just because you have done it before does not mean that you can do it again. And every pregnancy is different, so you have to treat it as such. And I do believe that you can do it again, but it's the expectation that you have on yourself that it should be easy. It was easy the first time, or, you know, I didn't have any issues. So there's a couple questions that I want you to ask yourself. If you've been struggling with secondary infertility, and, of course, this is something that I see in my practice, if you've had a successful pregnancy and you have a baby now and, you know, a toddler or a child or however old they are, here's the questions that I want you to ask yourself. Do you have any issues with your cycle now? And did you have any issues with your cycle before you got pregnant? Was there any issues getting pregnant? You know, did it take you three months, six months, a year? Were there any complications during the pregnancy? First trimester, second trimester, third trimester? Did you have horrendous nausea or fatigue during the first trimester, or did you have any other complications? Usually second trimester is pretty good for most women. But in the third trimester, did you go into early labor? Did you have high blood pressure? Did you have blood sugar, dysregulation and gestational diabetes? Your weight gain, was your weight gain really high? Right? Like, if you're a petite person, you should gain anywhere between 30 to 35 pounds. If you're not a petite person, and depending on your size and muscle mass and obviously adipose tissue levels, you're not going to gain 35 pounds. You should gain more like 15 to 20 pounds, 25. And so everybody is different. And I've seen women tell me all the time the pregnancy was healthy, but I gained 50 pounds. And I'm always like, so which one is it? Was the pregnancy healthy, or did you gain 50 pounds? Because gaining 50 pounds is not healthy during pregnancy. Maybe your doctor told you that it was, but in reality it's not. And even if you're a petite person, your baby's probably going to be more on the petite side. You shouldn't be gaining 50 pounds in your pregnancy. And then, of course, I want you to ask yourself about your labor. And how did your labor go? Did you need medication? Were you induced? Was it a c section? If it was, why was it vaginal did you tear? Was it a traumatic experience? And then I want you to ask yourself a question about postpartum. Did you have anxiety or postpartum depression? Did you have any issues with breastfeeding and milk production? Did you feel like you healed really slow? Did you have flares that came up during YoUr postpartum period, like YoUr THYroid, you know, your pelvic floor? You had issues, digestion, hormonal imbalances. Did your period come back right away, or did it take two years to come back? And so here's why I want you to ask all of these questions. So I believe, right, that Pregnancy is a natural process. So if it's not HapPEninG or if, you know, if it's not StickIng, something is missing. But I also believe that Pregnancy itself is the hardest thing that the female body will ever do. It is the most complex thing. If you think about what happens and making a baby from scratch, just because you should be able to do it does not mean that it's EASY. It is a Complex. It is the most complex thing that the female body will do. And so if what happens during pregnancy is often overlooked, you're like, oh, it's because you're pregnant, and that's why you have some of these issues. But in reality, I think that anything that happens in pregnancy is like a window into the future. So when you were pregnant, if you had thyroid issues, if you had blood sugar issues, if you had postpartum depression or you had really poor milk production or no milk production or whatever else that came up for you, pre eclampsia, you went into labor early, you had a c section instead of vaginal birth, there's always something to learn. The body is always doing the best that it can. And so if it can't do something the way that we imagine it, or, you know, I'm doing quotations for those of you who are just listening, then it's not that your body failed you, but it's that your body didn't have the necessary tools and resources to complete the process. This complex thing, right? And when we're struggling with secondary infertility, sometimes it's because your body just had enough nutrients and just enough vitality to go through the process once, but it can't do it again because pregnancy itself is a really hard thing. It in. If you look into traditional chinese medicine or read any books, for example, there's the first 40 days and awakening fertility by Hang Wu. And she very much is a traditional chinese doctor and looks at vitality and energy and how much it requires of the female body to do pregnancy well. And their recommendation always is like, hey, you need to wait minimum two years to start trying again after pregnancy. And I see women all the time maybe trying or getting pregnant too quickly after, you know, not on purpose, if you will, but it just happened because the body ovulated. In reality, though, that's still really hard on the body, and it's depleting it. So sometimes secondary infertility doesn't come until you have your second or your third child. And that could be because the body is just tired and it's depleted, and it took a lot of energy to do it the first time, took a lot of energy to do it the second or the third time. And maybe we didn't actually do anything to support ourselves postpartum or to recover. And I know that when I first had my baby, I didn't know anything. I didn't know the foods I should be eating or the how to keep my belly warm and how to speed up some of the healing that I needed to have. Going through the traumatic experience that I went to with my labor, I was one push away from a c section. There was a lot of tearing. I ended up needing the epidural, and then my contraction stopped, so then I had to be induced again. It was just such a hot mess. And instead of feeling empowered and transformed after that pregnancy, I felt really empty. And for the first time in my life, I understood where postpartum depression comes from. And, in fact, I believe I had postpartum depression. I just didn't know I had it until it kind of passed, and I realized that, like, oh, my God, that's not how you're supposed to feel that I didn't do that very well, and it's because I didn't do anything to prepare myself. Yeah, sure, I took supplements. Yeah, sure. I, you know, I exercise and take care of myself because I was a naturopath and an athlete, but I didn't do anything specific to support this really big journey ahead. And it, like, it traumatized me. It really rocked me. So when we're going through secondary infertility, I want you guys to ask yourself all of these questions, because in Reality, there's probably answers in there. It's very rare that people are like, nope, I had a perfect pregnancy. I had no issues getting pregnant. I had no postpartum issues, no issues with Breastfeeding. My digestion is really great. My hormones are great. I bounced back really easily. There's always in there somewhere, like, oh, yeah, I had, like, I was really sick in the First Trimester. Like, I was throwing up for 20 weeks, or I had a really traumatic labor and birthing experience, or my postpartum depression was really difficult, or I had a really hard time healing. Like, I didn't lose any weight after giving birth. It took me, like, three months to lose ten pounds, despite the fact that I was breastfeeding. But I gained, like, 30 or 40 pounds. So to me, those are signs of poor liver function, poor thyroid function, poor hormonal imbalances that were already there. But now that you went through this really big stressful thing, it's like they're coming out. I always, like I said, I always look at anything that happens during pregnancy and postpartum. It's like a window into the future because it's a really big stress. So it's a big stress on the body. And when we're stressing the system, the weakest link is going to show. And so for some women, that's the thyroid. For others, it's their liver. For others, it's, you know, their sex hormones, estrogen, progesterone, testosterone. This is where it's our own unique genetic kind of variation of what we're going through. But I bet that there was something that happened, which is why you're struggling to conceive now. And the only reason that I'm bringing this up, you guys, is so I want you to have answers. It's the worst. I think it's the worst not to have answers. I don't want you to blame yourself. I had so much guilt about not preparing for my first pregnancy, and it took me so long to recover from that, to, like, not feel guilt and shame. But at the end of the day, I wanted answers, and I wanted to have a different experience. And so instead of blaming yourself or having guilt and shame, instead, I invite you to shift your perspective and say, hey, I didn't know it any better, because if I knew better, I would have done better. But now that it's not happening for me, maybe there's an opportunity to do it differently and to experience the whole pregnancy, postpartum, having another child in a different way. And that's what I really craved. You know, I craved a different experience, and I'm glad I had it, because it was very healing. My third pregnancy, my miscarriage was very healing, and then my third pregnancy was really healing, and my postpartum and even the birthing experience, when I was able to have her at home, it's like I was glowing. After that, I didn't sleep for, like, 24 hours because my labor was it. You know, it started at midnight, and I gave birth at 07:00 in the morning. And it's like, I didn't sleep that whole day even though my baby was napping because I was too excited. Like, I just couldn't believe how proud I was of myself and how amazing I felt. Like, the oxytocin, I didn't get that the first time. And so the third pregnancy and my second birth really helped me understand that, like, oh, this is what we're talking about. This is why some women have four or five children. It's not because they went through this traumatic experience every time. It's because they've actually honed in on this experience and they've been able to connect with their body and to bring a child into this world in a way that felt empowering and like they were in control instead of what the hell is going on? You know, this is really dramatic. So even though every pregnancy is different, every pregnancy can tell us something. And so it is a stress, it is a window into the future. And here are some kind of causes that I've seen of secondary infertility. Honestly, all infertility is going to come down to mitochondrial dysfunction. And so if you guys have been listening to me for a while, maybe I sound like a broken record, but if your practitioner is not treating mitochondrial dysfunction and you have been struggling with infertility for years, you're missing the mark. You're completely missing the mark. Mitochondria is the root cause of infertility issues. And mitochondria is highly concentrated in areas where we need a lot of energy, like our muscles, like our heart, like our brain, like our ovaries, like our sperm. Because guess what? Embryo genesis, the development of the embryo, takes a lot of freaking energy. And so if you've been through IVF and you have a lot of eggs that were, that you got out, but not a lot of embryos, just know that it's probably the quality of the mitochondria for both the sperm and the egg. And so if you're not treating mitochondrial dysfunction as a practitioner in an infertility space, you're missing a huge mark. And so if you're looking for a practitioner to help you on your fertility journey, make sure they're talking to you about your mitochondria. So the mitochondria is this powerhouse of the cell that helps us produce energy. It's in concentrated and high, you know, high energy production places. Like I said, the muscles the heart, the liver, ovaries, our brain, nervous system function. But it can also be impacted by infections, chemicals, radiation, EMF, high stress, parasites, poor diet. Right. All of those things are going to impact your mitochondrial function. And what I see in terms of my patients, like, how do you experience, how do you know you have mitochondrial dysfunction? Well, first of all, if you're struggling with infertility, but I also bet that you have some of the following symptoms, whether it's difficulty losing weight, it's poor muscle mass, it's you have a lot of brain fog, you're just tired, you have indigestion, you feel like you're puffy, inflammation, you have acne, those are all signs of mitochondrial dysfunction. And obviously, like, if, whether it's male factor infertility or female factor infertility, mitochondria is going to be at the root cause. And so how do we want to approach it? I never start treatment until I know what's going on. And the way to know what's going on is to collect data, to have labs to do a proper health assessment, to actually collect data on how much stress is your body under. Most people have no idea how much stress they're under. This is why I utilize things like the aura ring. When you look at the aura readings, o u r a, you can see what's your heart rate doing, what's your HRV doing, what's your respiratory doing, a respiratory rate doing at nighttime when you're sleeping? Is your heart rate dropping as soon as you fall asleep or right before you're about to wake up? Is your heart rate variability a straight line, or do we have some spikes? We want spikes. That's how we can tell that your parasympathetic nervous system is functioning. You can actually rest instead of feeling like you're stuck in fight or flight. So when we can collect some lab work, you can test to see your environmental toxic load, you can test and see what's going on in your gut. You can definitely test and see what's going on with your hormones, with your cholesterol, with your inflammation, with your blood sugar. Your conventional system is probably not going to do it because they're looking for disease. And the worst thing that the conventional system says, and they say it all the time, which drives me nuts, is, well, you already have one child, you should just be happy for that. Or you have two kids and you should be happy that you have them. My God, like, who cares? This person is going through a traumatic experience. And really, do you think it's appropriate to say, well, at least you should be happy for so and so, for the things that you already have. So that drives me nuts. And like I said, I think a lot of times the conventional system is just not testing for what it should be testing because they're looking for disease. And if it's you haven't been struggling for long enough with your secondary infertility, you just literally have to wait to get some lab testing. And I just don't think you need to do that anymore. Yeah, you'll need to invest. Yes, you'll need to pay for lab testing. But to me, it's like you're either paying with time or money. And time is something we can never get back. Money. We can always figure out how to make more. In fact, I encourage everybody to do that and create financial freedom for themselves because the world that we live in is crazy and it's unpredictable. And as long as money is a currency that we're using, you should probably figure out why some people have more while other people have less. What is the skill that I'm missing to be able to make more and live the life that I want to? Because it's like I said, you either paying time with either time or money, and paying with time, I think, is the worst. Like sitting and waiting and feeling like you can't do anything about the situation, I think is way worse than figuring out what's wrong. So then you can actually have a plan. And so then, of course, once we know what's going on, we can get back to the basics. You need a strong foundation. You need to figure out your sleep, your digestion, your nutrition, your hydration, your movement. Are you actually moving your body, you know, on a regular basis? You need to figure out your stress management, where stress coming from, mental and emotional health. That foundation is really critical. And truthfully, if you already have a child, you probably are trying to teach them some of those things. It's the first thing we do is make sure that the baby is pooping and that the baby is eating and they're breathing. And then we start to do some sleep training, depending on what that looks like, you know, for you and your family. But you want to help your child figure out how to fall asleep, to stay asleep, get good night rest. Because let's face it, if they're not sleeping well, what happens? They're messes. And so are we. Genuinely, so are we. We just can control it and we can suppress it more because we can buy things like coffee and sugar and watch tv and right where the kids don't. They need us in order to be able to control themselves and to soothe themselves, we need to make sure we clean up our environment. Our environment is crazy toxic. And if you already have kids, like, this is how I got into environmental toxins and cleaning up my environment. Because when my daughter was born and she looked so pure, I'm like, I don't want to put chemicals on her. And this is when I got clean products for her. But then I'm like, well, why am I putting chemicals on myself? That didn't make sense. So then obviously I started cleaning up my environment, and then when she started to eat and, like, drink water, I'm like, well, I want her to drink clean water, and I want her to eat the best quality food. Then it's like, well, why am I feeding my child organic food, but I'm not eating organic food? That didn't make any sense. But literally, like, that's how I started. And, you know, that was six and a half years ago. And now the way how much we have revamped our environment is very, very different, and we obviously feel better for it, but it does take time. And then you do need to detox, because, again, we've been exposed to a lot of toxins for a long time. If this is the first time you're hearing about it, I'm sorry, it's true. We need to do something about it, and we can't do anything about it unless we're aware. So first step is awareness, and then the next step is really being able to prioritize. What is the most important thing. One of the things that my mentors told me that was really helpful when you get overwhelmed, how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. And environmental toxins, for the most part, feels like you're trying to eat an elephant. You just take it one bite at a time and make sure that you're prioritizing something in cleaning up your environment every week, every month. And it just gets easier. You know, it gets easier because you've chewed up a bunch of the elephant, so you have less, you know, less to do. And then, of course, we have to rebuild and repair the cells and optimize because, you know, these chemicals, these toxins, these pathogens are causing damage to the cells. And we want to make sure that we give the body the nutrients that it needs to repair those cells. And for most of you guys, you've been running on empty for a long time. And if you had a pregnancy and you weren't let's say taking really good supplements or you maybe had a more of a traumatic experience. And you know what I did for my first pregnancy? It's like I didn't focus on repairing and rebuilding myself. Like, I couldn't wait to get back to my body, my normal body, into my work. And I actually depleted myself even more because I needed to take that time to rest and I just couldn't because I had this postpartum depression and anxiety. And I wish I could, you know, I wish I could go back because that's not what I did with my second born. But it's really important to take the time to repair and recover because it's such a big thing. And so if we've been in deficit for a really long time, and then we're just expecting our body to keep being able to pop out children, like, it's not a problem. I think it's just honestly an unfair and unrealistic expectation on yourself, and you're just setting yourself up for disappointment. I see so many women disappointed in themselves when reality. It's like you're just tired. Like, your poor body is so tired, and you're asking it to do this really big thing. And maybe it's a bit unrealistic, and maybe you just need to focus on bringing that energy and vitality in and slowing down a little bit and having trust that your body, when it's ready, will do the thing that it's meant to do. But you gotta give it some time to actually heal and set it up for success instead of like, well, I've been taking a prenatal for the last year. It's like, that's great, but, like, taking a multivitamin is not preparing yourself for running a marathon, which is what I compare pregnancy to. It's like, being pregnant is a lot of work for the body and it's. Taking a prenatal is just not enough in our day and age. So I do want to make sure that you're setting yourself up for success and avoiding these mistakes. So don't rush through anything. Take the time to do the job well, just because you feel like your kids are going to be too far apart and they're not going to get along, that's an internal pressure that you created for yourself. My kids are four years apart and they're best friends. And I always envisioned that it would be two years apart, or two and a half, max, three. And when I had the miscarriage, it honestly broke my heart. I was like, they're never going to get along. They're going to fight. They're going to. And that's not the case because it's really like the values that you set for your kids. And I'm not having a child for to create a sibling, don't get me wrong, I think that's important when you have a vision. But at the end of the day, you want to have another child and you want to have this experience, and let's take the time to actually prepare yourself, you know, because usually it's just a couple of extra months that you need versus a couple of years. And we set this unrealistic expectation that actually just makes things really hard for ourselves. And then we rush through, and when you rush through trying to detox and clean up your environment and all this stuff, you just end up having to go back and patch up some of this stuff because it catch ups to you and really just know that your body is smart. Your body is super smart. It will tell you what it means. It's just a matter of, are you willing to listen to what it needs? Because it might not. It might not be ready for the pregnancy yet, and that might be a really hard for you to recognize and to admit to yourself. But you might feel really frustrated with your body. Like, why doesn't it just do this already? Instead, can we use different language? Can we say things like, hey, what are you trying to tell me? What is still missing? Where do you need help? Why do I have the stubborn symptom? Why am I still tired? Why have I not been able to lose the baby weight? Why am I leaking? Why is my period not come back? Or why is my period really heavy? Why is my hair falling out? Because those are all signs and symptoms. There's something is missing and it's an opportunity to fix that. And if you're like, yeah, but I've always had those things. Just because you always had it doesn't mean that it should be there. And just because your body could do it once does not mean that you don't need to address it now. So just really listen, really listen to your body and try to put those fears aside. Like, my kids won't get along, the gap is too big. It's just your own expectations and they're really harsh, and it puts a lot of pressure on you. And I think that if we can release some of that pressure and really just focus on rebuilding yourself and being present with a family that you do have now will create a lot more of that fire, a lot more of that love, a lot more of that peace and acceptance for yourself going through this journey. So when you're ready, you can do it again. But not just do it again. You can do it in a way that's going to be really transformative, really empowering, and you can see and feel the difference. You know, I love working my. With my secondary infertility patients because when they get pregnant and they have that second baby, they're like, this is different. Like, I cannot believe how different it is. And my sister was one of the first people that experienced this because, you know, she couldn't get pregnant with her first and because she had a lot of issues and we just, like, barely fixed some stuff. And she got pregnant, but she had complications during the pregnancy and even postpartum, and the baby was really attached. She had her, like, he wasn't sleeping. There was a lot of. It was hard for them. And then when they decided, like, hey, maybe this is something that we can do again, but, like, let's really get ourselves ready. And so both her and her partner went through my program. They did all the supplements, they did all the detoxing, they did the prep, and they got pregnant without even trying. Honestly, they were still going through the program, but her pregnancy was so different, and her placenta was so different. It was this vibrant red instead of, like, dry and small. And then the baby looked different in his nervous system. And it's really cool. Like, yeah, you can feel guilty and be like, oh, I wish I would have done that for my first. But at the end of the day, if you knew better, you would have done better. So let's just say that, and let's forgive ourselves and move on. But it was really cool for her to see the work and the effort that she put in and how different the baby was in placenta and how quickly she recovered and how great she felt and, like, no issues with breastfeeding or milk supply. And so I think it's really cool when we actually put the energy, we can see that difference of that effort. So if you're going through the trenches of secondary infertility, just know that it's important for you to get the right help, because just because you were able to do it once does not mean it's just going to be as easy as the second time. And I invite you to make this experience a different one. The more empowering, a more transformative feeling, more in control, and really taking the time to make sure you nourish yourself because you are at the place where the baby will grow. And it does take an insane amount of energy, time, effort, money, all of that jazz. But put it in so you could see the return of investment later. And I promise you there's a huge return of investment when you take the time to prepare. So I hope you guys found this helpful. Thanks so much for listening. Thank you so much for listening. To read the full show notes of this episode, including summary, timestamps, guest quotes, and any resources that were mentioned on the episode, visit drjanelevesque.com podcast and if you're getting value from these episodes, I'd love it if you took two minutes to share it with a friend. Rate and leave me a review@ratethispodcast.com. doctorJane the reviews will help with the discoverability of the show, and who knows, I might share your review on my next episode. Thank you so much for tuning in, and let's make your fertility journey your healing journey.