Baylee began her career in specialty coffee as a barista in the Great Seattle Area in 2009, but just 7 years later, she found her passion - roasting.

Now she is the Director of Marketing and Engagement for #shestheroaster and is proudly involved with GlitterCat Barista as a Mentor and 2020 Roaster.

From micro-roasters to macro-roasters, she roasted on machines with a five-hundred-pound capacity all the way down to machines with a five-hundred-gram capacity.

It's what she loves to do. And it shows during my interview with her.

A couple of key questions I got to ask her is if she has ever felt the imposter syndrome in any of her roles, and how did she navigate through them. Also, she gives some kickass advice for the next generation of female production industry workers.

And the most important thing I needed to know - why did she say yes to being on my podcast?

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2024 Best Podcast Nominations

*Best DIY Podcast Finalist - The Ambies, Awards For Excellence in Audio - The Podcast Academy

*Best Coffee Podcast Finalist - The Sprudgie Awards, Honoring The Very Best in Coffee - Sprudge, The Worldwide Leader In Coffee News

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Copyright 2024 Elena Mahmood

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Elena: Yeah, I think it's really great that I get to talk to you first out of everyone, because, like, you've definitely been really influential to a lot of other women roasters, I would think. So, honestly, not to just, like, gravitate towards my whole journey, but, like, everything when I went to the roasteries retreat, um, and got to sit down with all those women, like, it really, like, that's what really started this. That's what really, like, solidified, like, me wanting to, like, get to talk to all these women and not even just, like, roasters. Like, I would love to be able to talk and sit down with, like, farmers and producers and importers and just, like, hear their stories also. And I think, honestly, I don't know if you remember, there was at one point we were passing the mic, introducing, and I don't remember her name, sadly, but she was talking about how she didn't feel safe in her work environment. And if it wasn't for, like, I think, cat, um, she would have never stayed. And that really stuck with me. What made you want to say yes? Obviously, you don't know me. It was my first time meeting me at the retreat, and I really approached you with barely any communication relationship with you, like, hey, I have this idea. Are you down? And you're down to be a part of it, obviously. So what really stuck out to you with wanting to really be on here?

Baylee: Yeah. Uh, it's kind of like the value take, um, when you're in my shoes, of taking over shoes of roaster and being that person that if anyone comes to me with anything within means, I'm absolutely going to do it. Um, and so something like this kind of checks all the boxes, which are, like, is there a need for this? Uh, is the person doing it doing it with good intent? Um, is this something I think the community needs and other people would benefit from? And is this, like, career developing for somebody? Ah, I think all of those things, it's like, outside of, like, hey, can you get me a job? Which I can't always do for everybody. These are the things that I invest in. So, um, unfortunately, I met you, and I like you, so that made it a lot easier. But I'm glad I gave off a.

Elena: First good impression in the ten minutes that you got to meet me.

Baylee: Well, like I said, those are meet up. It was really formative for me, just because the first time we did that, it was a tragically small number. Yeah. It was just really validating. I don't celebrate enough of the successes, or I don't give a lot of time for the celebration of the successes. Um.

Elena: I feel like, especially for you and your position, you're kind of like an entrepreneur. It's really hard to kind of take a step back and look at your achievements because you're still focused on. Okay, so I'm here, but this needs to be done. Like, oh, there's the next project. Like, oh, I have to start doing this. Okay, so this started, so now I can start doing this. So it's really hard to take a step back and really just take a breather.

Baylee: Yeah. And I'm just constantly burnt out. So then it's like, you're really busy. I mean, I work a full time job, and then I do three other things that are like yeah, they're about 70 hours work week. So I think when I do a scholarship or a giveaway or I help somebody, it's just like, okay, cool. Next thing, and I don't sit with it and look at it. I'm like, okay, cool. It was a stupid gearbox. Whatever. People need coffee gear. It doesn't matter. Next. And then I'm m like, that's expensive stuff. And if you're starting in coffee, you need that stuff. So I don't, like, sit with it long enough, um, because I don't do that. Seeing the first shoes of roaster meet up of, like, nine or ten people or whatever it was, and then years later, seeing that room full, it's a slap in the face. It's like, no, you're going to have to celebrate this. You're going to have to notice it.

Elena: Slap in the face. I was wondering which direction you were going with.

Baylee: Yeah, it's literally right in front of you. I'm like, okay, wow, this is traction. And some days, I think a lot.

Elena: Of the women, too, were really vocal about it, too. So I hope you felt, uh, like, appreciated that you should be, because I know that having to run a lot of things, it gets really swept under the rug whether or not you feel appreciated or seen or valid.

Baylee: Right. Yeah. She's a roaster. Like, I'm not the founder my mentor was, and she hit this roadblock of, like, being a mother and starting her own business, and was just like, I don't have it anymore. I don't have the energy anymore. And I was like, oh, I'm young and 21. I have the energy. I will do this. And now I feel like I'm becoming her. When she gave it away, now I'm like, okay, somebody else that has, like, more energy should do this, because I just don't feel like I'm ever doing a good enough job. And maybe that's just, like, nonprofit esque work that you always feel like you got to be doing m more. I often compare she's a roaster to a humane society where it's like, you do it, but you want to do it more, and you want to bring home all the animals, but you just are one person, and you're like, I'm exhausted.

Elena: I think it also is, like, showing with how you're communicating it too. This is, like, something of great importance to you, but obviously it would help so much more having a support system to be able to help carry the load that I feel like now you're starting to feel like this is a lot of responsibility. And it's like, how do I prioritize my personal time to my work time, to my passionate project time? So I feel like it's starting to get a little bit overwhelming.

Baylee: Yeah. There's people like, I know what I have to do next in order to progress this. Um, and I just don't even have the energy to, uh so big picture stuff for She's A Roaster next year. Post holidays, you just need to get through this. But, like, post holidays, maybe like, March or April, I would like to, um, form committees. Right. So I'll still keep the email. Um, I'll give away the social media to somebody. There was one person at Retreat that really wanted to run social media for Shoes A Roaster. And yeah, I'll just have committees. I was thinking, like, a sponsorship. So somebody that goes out and seeks sponsors for whatever. Um, somebody that does like, events. So whenever there's a trade show, like Expo Ray or Coffee Fest, they can find spaces for us to hold events, and they can facilitate those connections. Um, and just kind of, like, get a committee. And we'll all meet up, like, once a month, once every other month as P Fit, whatever. That's long term for me.

Elena: Yeah, no, that's great, though. It sounds like you're starting to split off the work that you're probably doing all by yourself to people who could possibly be passionate about doing it. And it's good that the Retreat gave that to you, gave you people who want to reach out and help because they're all so passionate about the same project. Like, this person right here talking to you, right?

Baylee: And she's the roaster. It was so cool when it started. It still is cool. I don't mean to use past sense, but it's a need for it. And I think at the same time, women started doing and applying and showing up and I don't know, like, fucking shit up. Like, when it started. And it was just kind of this cool club. They had shorts, and it was cool to have a shirt to work with men and have it this cool clubhouse. It was, really. And I hope that it still is. But the fact that just a random woman started it for no reason other than she wanted to, and so seeing people like you take on your own projects about things that you care about, and you like, if that's all she's a rosha does, I'm totally fine with it. That's sick.

Elena: Yeah, because bottom line, it's like, a lot of what I want this platform to be is not even just, like, obviously connecting and having discussions where it's really hard to talk about coffee stuff with non coffee people. But it's also, like it's a sense of finding community and being able to be like, hey, I see all the work you're doing, obviously, your role specifically is a lot of work. I want you to be able to feel validated and feel comfortable to tell your story and what you've experienced and how you got to this point, because obviously, it's a lot of hard work. And I know that you said that you took on this role from your mentor, and you're like, oh, shit, okay, so here I am now. But, I mean, you've obviously touched a lot of people's hearts through what you're doing with sheiser roaster, because, honestly, as much as your mentor did start this, you still have geared it towards a specific direction. Like, you should give yourself some credit for the work you do.

Baylee: Thank you. Yeah, definitely. I grew up around a lot of construction worker type guys being, like, the token woman. That's not, like, a new concept in my life at all. So it's funny because it's less about that for me, I think, with all this volunteerism stuff. She's, the roaster, coffee roaster, skilled FBA, you name it, any of that stuff I do, it's so much less about, uh, being the only woman in a room or gender or as much as it is. I had the shittiest coffee career. I had the shittiest.

Elena: And what happened?

Baylee: Oh, my God. What didn't happen?

Elena: Yeah.

Baylee: As a collective whole, a manager in situations where we were having racial discrimination in third party audits with a mediator, like, sexual harassment against, uh, me, and then seeing it to other people, like, walk out, wage theft, uh uh. What haven't I gone through in coffee? And I just feel like it shouldn't be that fucking hard. It just shouldn't be. And if I could do something for somebody, hopefully a collection of somebody, but for one single person that doesn't have to go through any of that shit, like, awesome. That's the goal.

Elena: Yeah. I think, which is why it's important to hear each other's stories. That's what I was really curious on, is you've obviously done a lot, so it's like, if there was anyone to kind of vouch for needing just peace within this industry for us, I wanted to make sure that you were definitely on this platform to discuss it. And it's like, I've only been doing this since May, and, uh, the way that the trajectory it's been going is just like it's been a lot of things that I didn't expect, but it was also stuff that has not surprised me because of the industry we work in. Right.

Baylee: You're like, wait, coffee is poor. We don't pay our people. We fire and lay off. Are you serious? That's so weird.

Elena: So what did you want to do before you started doing coffee? Did you just have, uh, an idea, or were you just like, fuck, I just started as a barista, and I'm.

Baylee: Here I was 14 and a half. It was my first job. Okay, this is it. Yeah, I had some second jobs. I had some kid jobs. Let's see, uh, was a filing clerk at a golf and country club for, I don't know, a summer. Um, I worked at my dad's construction company briefly. Uh, I worked at a thrift store as a second job because that was so cool and it was so fun. And I got half off shit that's already half off, so it was very cool.

Elena: It sounds like because of, like, I think the environment, like, you were around in the work environment that you already had, like, this understanding of what toxic masculinity is and being surrounded by the male ego and having to deal with, um, kind of, like, stepping up and being like, hey, I'm not just a woman. Like, I can do the same thing that you can do.

Baylee: Yeah, I do have a very supportive father. And when I was a kid, I was like, I'll just take over your company. He goes, as a woman, Indigenous, you would make triple what I make and go in the boys club and go fuck it up.

Elena: Yeah, I love that.

Baylee: Yeah. And for him, it was, like, strictly financial. He was like, you're a minority woman. You fit all of the quotas. Like, your affirmative action in a nutshell.

Elena: What's your ethnicity, if you don't mind me asking?

Baylee: Uh, I'm indigenous. Uh, Irish, Indigenous, and Scandinavians. No hope, just all aggression.

Elena: I mean, I'm Middle Eastern, so that makes you feel any better? We're so aggressive people, too.

Baylee: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's a cool mix, but, um, yeah, my tribe is in Washington, so I'm never going to leave the Pacific Northwest. Uh, if I go any further than, like, a 20 miles radius from Salmon, I'll just disintegrate. Uh uh. I had a very supportive father, and I grew up with him and his friends. And whether that was construction or golf or gambling, I mean, I was a monster.

Elena: I love that for you, though. That's great, because I feel like it's really hard to find empowerment around that. And I'm glad that you had support to be able to feel free to do that, too.

Baylee: And then you meet other women that are like you, or just other people in general that just, I don't know, push envelopes, like to be black sheep. I don't know any of those things.

Elena: I'm so find your people. Yeah. I feel like I'm still on that journey to trying to find my people, but hopefully, through this platform, I can find more of my people, because at the same time, this is a lot of what I want to be focusing on being able to find strong, independent we me doing the thing, um, with being in this industry. It's hard for me to ask you some of these questions because I feel like you're not going to be affected as much. Did you ever feel, like, an imposter in this industry?

Baylee: Did you ever feel like every day. Every day? Yeah. Absolutely, uh, still some days, to be honest, people. I do. I really do. Is it's stupid? Because when people say, Why you stay in this industry? I usually say people in the top three. Right? And then it's like, in the same breath. I'm like, no, I hate copy people.

Elena: I feel like they're so different. There's, like, different types.

Baylee: Yeah, there's different types. I like other people's stories. I don't really like people in the way that I'm not very social, but I like other people's stories and I like other people's feelings.

Elena: I can relate to this so much.

Baylee: I don't like people, but I kind of like hearing about that.

Elena: Yeah, it's just fascinating to see what people go through and how they've overcome them, but then they're like, well, let's go out and do I'm like my.

Baylee: Best service is also, like, my love language. So I think that I can't serve somebody if there are no people to serve, right? Uh, yeah. I think with the imposter syndrome part about people eating coffee, people is that coffee is such an opinional thing and everybody thinks that they're fucking. Right. And I can't stand it. It makes me so grossed out. And I'm also like, as coffee is getting older and older, it's getting hipper and hipper, and I don't know, I'm starting to feel like the old white guys that would teach me coffee that I made fun of, but I was like, EW, you guys like dark. Gross. That's so gross. Uh, you're so basic. Uh, now I feel like I'm that guy. I'm that guy.

Elena: I feel like I'm also becoming this person where it's like, everyone's coming to me for suggestions, and then when I give them, they're just like, oh, yeah, I could never do that. I could never be like that.

Baylee: Different vogue.

Elena: If you are so narrow minded on trying different kinds of coffee, it's like, why would you come here? My thing is like, if you know how some people are weird about naturals, like, natural processed coffee, and then it's just like, why are you here? Why are you judging without even trying? I don't like naturals. I only like, washed. Oh, my God. What's, dad? And then they'll go to the same different coffee shops and try and say some shit. Like, they know some shit, and I'm just like, okay.

Baylee: Yeah. When I get asked to do coffee interviews or like, okay, articles, publication is something that happens I shouldn't say very often, but at least once or twice a year, I usually shun away from that. Thank you. I usually shun away from that stuff because who receipts its receipts? I'm not an eloquent person. I'm a consumer. I smoke cigarettes. I smoke weed, I drink alcohol, eat spicy foods. I'm a consumer. I am 95% of the people that walk through your front door. So if you want, ah, a coffee science cue Grater palette, go find it somewhere else. I am the people that come in your shop. And so my opinions in this industry are very, um, controversial.

Elena: But I love that.

Baylee: Yeah, I respect the science, and I guess I just never want to do publication because I never want to hear whatever bigwig influencer, man is, like, doing the YouTube videos come for me. I never want it. So I just don't do that.

Elena: Yeah, the cancel culture and that toxicity with social media is ridiculous to people who I can understand this from a different perspective because it's funny. We're going to trail back to the whole relationship thing. I also don't really care for people, but what I do care about are the farmers and the producers and the people I get to interact with, like where we get the coffee from and stuff like that. And that's what's really made me love having conversations and learning about people's stories. But when it gets down to coffee is only good when it's this this and this category or it's in this bracket. And if it doesn't, then it's not good coffee. Or if this doesn't benefit someone else, then it's just like it's soulless. It doesn't have what I fell in love with the coffee industry for, which is the interaction you have with the people. And I think, like, I can relate to the whole like, there are two different types of people in this industry. There are the people that care about the people, and then there are the people that care about the money, and they care about the show. They care about the displays of gestures that they can do to make it look flashy and attractive to the consumers that are trying to buy it for cloud.

Baylee: Yeah, I guess I feel like an imposter all the time. A lot of why I won't do those things is fear of being told that I'm wrong, but I can't be wrong about my own opinion. But it's just something I just don't feel like I need to put myself through necessarily. Um, I feel like a younger me was if you ask me to do whatever, I just was like, yeah, putting myself out there meant more than anything else. And now at this point, gosh pro tip. Don't say yes to everything, because you end up realizing how many people you can't stand when you do that.

Elena: That also accelerates your being burnt out.

Baylee: Yeah, it does. Like, you get exploited enough times, you get burned enough times, and then you just don't want to do it anymore. So yeah, pro tip to anyone that listens to this, that is like, wow, should I do this thing? I don't know. I'm having kind of a gray, lukewarm feeling about it. Don't fucking do it. Don't fucking do it. Unless you're, like, gung ho for it, don't do it.

Elena: When in doubt, trust your gut. I swear that time won't lead you wrong. It's usually your gut that's like, hey, this isn't right. That's when you're like, no, you're right. Well, with all of this going on, then, with all of, like, you keep saying you have controversial opinions, and I want to push you to tell me them.

Baylee: Oh, uh, my gosh. Okay, I got it. Freshness is like, a huge one for me on the hill that I don't even want people to have the cafe roast until it's been off roast for at least a week, at least maybe two.

Elena: Like, the people that reach to the back. The people that reach to the back, or they're like, when's the roast date? And I was like, it was yesterday. And they're like, I'll take that back. I'm like, you don't understand it. Hasn't had time.

Baylee: Yeah, I mean, even a lot of coffee shops, uh, specifically, like, grocery or roasteries, they pull grocery after ten days in their shops. They'll pull espresso or bags. There are twelve days off. Yeah. Uh, that shit drives me nuts. Um, I've made quite distinct about past crop coffee. Uh, if you don't know how to roast them or you think they taste different, be a better roaster, you better say it. Okay.

Elena: My mentor told me the same thing. I'm very grateful for my mentor, um, for giving me this very non pretentious level handbook. It wasn't a handbook. It's basically, um, modulating profile roasts by, I think, Rob Hoose.

Baylee: Oh, God. I just started reading it.

Elena: Oh, my God.

Baylee: Because for me, I've been avoiding it.

Elena: I mean, to be honest, I started my coffee roasting journey with literally one day on the actual roasting machine. He gave me the book to read, and I'm like, this is like a different fucking language. What the fuck does this mean? And then I revisited it after obviously roasting for a period of time. And I'm like, oh, my God, the way that this is helping me profile so much. But I'm very grateful for him for showing me the fact that there's no such thing as bad coffee, and there's obviously the whole past crop phenomenon mystery. And I'm like, we've had coffee come in where it is past season, and it's fucking delicious.

Baylee: Yeah. And if you're cupping it and you're like, wow, this doesn't taste the way I want it to. It should taste different. It should. But if you can't find a way to make it still taste good and servable, that's on you. That's absolutely on you. Also, we say a year. Um, I did another podcast talking about past crop and that we don't have over aging coffee. Like, what degrades is volatile acids. Right? So, like, super brightness to the coffees. You have to understand that those acids and those fruit notes are going to go away first and second. Um, and we also don't have a gauge on green coffee bags that says this is the rate at which it's losing volatile acids. Okay, make it a dark roast then. Awesome. So you can no longer do the thing you bought it for. That sounds like a you problem.

Elena: Yeah.

Baylee: I just think if we know that every single copy is different and approaches to every single copy is different, so when it's old and you just throw it away, I just don't understand people. But, um, that is another controversial opinion I have. Uh, god, I put half of a Meyer lemon and flash brew sometimes. That's a big one, too. Everyone's like, EW, you do that? I'm like, yeah, I do that. Yeah, I like that. Whatever. Um, yeah, just kind of some stuff like that. Little, uh, things like that everywhere. Not well received.

Elena: Yeah, I feel like everyone expects that. What's really interesting is how changing the industry is, but people are so stuck on things that haven't progressed either. And it's funny because I feel like I have this problem with the whole imposter syndrome. And I also have a problem with some things that I would consider controversial, which is what I started this podcast for. I was like, man, there's some shit that literally made no sense to me at the retreat when I was there. And I was like, why is this happening? And I just came, uh, back home, and I was like, okay, so are we going to talk about it or not? Because I don't want this to just continue happening and people don't know. I feel like the industry is already pretty gatekept for no reason in the first place, which makes it so unapproachable for people to even want to be a part of it.

Baylee: Yeah, that's true. I've been roasting for a decade, and the guys the guys who taught me how to do it, they have that firm mentality that nobody knows what goes in our coffee. It's a secret. We are secret society of coffee people. Like, uh, you must knock the secret knock to enter.

Elena: What's the magic word?

Baylee: Yeah. And there's a level of appeal to that that I'm into. Uh, but, like, me as a young grocer was like, oh, no, we should be so no gatekeeping. Tell everyone. And now the older I get, the more I'm like, you know what it is, those people gatekeeped it. Because if they told their secrets, anyone could do it. Right? I think that that's why they would do it. I think that it's absolutely job security for their roasters. Keep secrets about developing coffees and how they do it and their little personal styles, because they don't want to be copied and then become expendable. I think now and this is maybe my old white guy thing that I say, yeah, anyone can do it. But what drives me up the wall bat shit crazy is when people are like, I want to be a roaster. And I'm like, cool. Do you know what that means?

Elena: Yeah.

Baylee: That means forklifts and hair nets and grease guns and maintenance, like, heavy maintenance base. That means trying to source um, exhaust pipes and measuring and working on your after burner, replacing thermal couples, like loading green coffee. That's what that means. And I feel like now if I hear one more, they're almost like a passenger seat princess. You know what I mean? I just want to roast, and I'm like, unless you can do the whole thing through and through, like, you don't get to. And I feel like it's always a lot of competitors are, uh, like, I want to roast my own coffee. And I'm like, yeah, you can, but you're not actually a roaster because you're not applying. It's not just plugging in your laptop and following the curve. That is not it. Unless you're going to embrace the mechanic side of it and the hard manual labor in it, I don't really want to talk to you.

Elena: Yeah, there's, like, certain parts that people expect. Being a roaster is, like, the aesthetic of it, and then they do the actual job, and they're like, oh, it's anticlimactic. And I'm like, I don't know what you were expecting.

Baylee: Yeah. Come by a maintenance day, you want to learn how to roast, you're going to have to put on a coverall and get through this three foot exhaust pipe with me. You're going to have to crawl your whole body through it. It's not fun.

Elena: No, I completely agree. I feel like it's also just, like, it is very physical. It's a very physical job that I don't think a lot of people realize.

Baylee: Uh, I have a herniated disc from it. Uh, yeah. And then now probably it probably nerve damage now because now what I'm going through is like, a numbness. But I've had my back ultrasounded. Um, it's called Easton, but they put acupuncture needles in the nerves in your back, and then they shoot electricity through it. Um, I'm seeing Shiatsu once a week. Funny, no one talks about that. Uh, yeah, I'm 30 with back problems.

Elena: Yeah, it's ridiculous. M. I had to start. If it wasn't for the fact that I go to the gym regularly, I honestly don't think I would be able to handle the heftiness that comes from lifting the bags, dealing with the machinery.

Baylee: Totally. And I stopped working out because my day job became a workout. And then that's probably how you know what I mean? So it's like, now I'm going through physical therapy, and I'm going to the gym again, and I'm getting back into it, but it's like, I have to revert, uh, like, eight years of not, like, atrophy. Dude, it's fucked. How do you do this without insurance? I don't know. We need to sort of go fund me for every single roaster going through problems that doesn't have insurance. Because, dude, I'm in the thousands for Copays and my tribe. I think my tribe pays for it, and I have thousands of dollars in it's. Insane.

Elena: That's actually something worth talking about. Why do you think we're obviously a. Product of this, but why do you think we stay in the coffee industry despite the fact that we possibly don't have benefits? We understand that this is not a career where we're going to financially be dependent and be able to successfully because I know that you just talked about it earlier, but I'm like in my head, the way that you're talking about it, I'm like you mentioned people who don't have health insurance and doing this job. And I'm one of those people. And then I'm like, um, I talked about this with my mentor, too, and he went from a job that was very similar to now having a job full of 401 benefits and everything, which is great, and I feel like that's pretty rare. Fine. But why do you think people stay?

Baylee: Do you think it's rare to find? Because I feel like so why are you holding out, then?

Elena: Oh, uh, who's interviewing you? Yeah, I think a lot of it also depends on location. Let's talk about that, because I'm from the Midwest. I'm literally in Columbus, Ohio, as we speak. Um, and as you can tell, the roasting community, one is very small, and the average hourly rate to living cost is not adequate either. So it's pretty common to find really low paid jobs with no insurance to back it up.

Baylee: Yeah, true. Very true. Yeah. I mean, my first roasting job, no insurance. My second, wonderful, wonderful benefits. My third, pretty good benefits. Pretty good benefits. My fourth, no benefits. My fifth, like, it comes and goes. Uh, and yeah, I don't know. So in my adult life, I think I've gone without insurance for one year. And that was fine. I made it one year. But yeah, I mean, anyone listing should absolutely go try to find the big roastery in town that can afford you.

Elena: Being a bigger roastery and then being a smaller roastery, they're obviously going to give you more than they can. If you're working for a smaller roastery, it's going to be really hard to be able to get what you need. So have you ever encountered toxic femininity? Have you ever encountered that within the industry?

Baylee: Yeah, so many wild stories. Yeah. No. Um, this is actually the platform I'm going to use to talk about this. Go for it, she's the roaster. Like a lot of the scholarships, um, or opportunities, rather just any of them, we create a Google form. I, uh, usually recycle a couple of questions that have worked twelve for other ones. I assemble an election committee. The election committee, usually, it's an odd number of judges. Um, I've had as many as five and as little as three. Uh, and I would go up to seven. I guess I just feel like that's a burden for seven people to go through that many. But regardless, we have these Google forms. Um, and some of the questions are, like, a pretty normal one is, like, hey, what are the hardships you've overcome, right? This is very generalized, vague one. And I can't tell you how many applicants give me an HR incident about this guy that they work with who makes more than them and took their opportunity away from them. And how dare he? And they're using names of these men and really passionately, aggressively attacking them. And I'm just like, hey, listen, I've been there. But I automatically scoring those candidates incredibly low because the whole point of it is not to drag men down. It's actually just for you to pull yourself up.

Elena: Okay?

Baylee: You better talk about them. I know that that's exhausting. Trust, uh, me. I fucking know that's exhausting. But I've worked with mostly men my whole life, and they're all kind of awesome. I've hated a fair amount of them, don't get me wrong. Um, and there was one who is incredibly sexist. He would say terrible things. I remember, um, he said pretty much anytime a woman talks, I just can't hear her. He said that in a company wide meeting. Everyone heard it. And I was mortified. He said it about me, and I was mortified. I get it. I totally understand. But you can't answer application questions and be forward facing in that extreme of a manner. Um, and when I read those, I'm also like, do better. Be better than that. Because you're letting them get to you. And this is stupid. And we all know that this is happening and this exists. And you telling me your HR incidents in this questionnaire. You know that I'm not going to give you brownie points for this.

Elena: I don't know what it is with, like, m uh, I guess I should also preface I don't want to use this platform as, like, we're going to talk about shit with men. You know what? I don't want to be like, men are shit. They are worthless. They don't deserve to be a part of this Earth. And the air that I breathe, the air that I walk around, the biggest thing is that it goes based off of what you're exactly saying. We understand these are issues, but we shouldn't feel like we can manipulate to be higher than them. We should be able to work just as hard and show our work for it and be still, like, morally good people. Yeah. I also, like, stand by that whole, like, be better. Because it's like I think anyone who goes into this industry as someone who had to learn, but, like, understands that the more you interact with the men that are in this industry, not everybody is out to get you, actually.

Baylee: Yeah, they're great.

Elena: Yeah, I was m like, I've met some really chill people. I've met some really supportive people. I've met some people who have made me feel validated. So it's like it's important to see, like, there are goods and bads, and it's not just like, this whole negative atmosphere. I guess like, what I want to be able to do is, okay, so here's the issue. So what is the next step? Like, what would you do? It's like, okay, so we understand this is what's happening. What do you what would you do to try and make things different? Is that what you started? The cheese, the roast? But is that why you're, like, choosing to go forward with all of the cheese, the roaster, nonprofit stuff?

Baylee: Yeah. And well, and I think that, you know, I've given a lot of, uh I don't know, talks. I've been a manager for many, many, many years, and I'm a terrible manager because I'm like, uh, the cool ant. I'm not like, custodial on the cool ant. Helps you through things. Right. So being like, hey, when you ask for a raise, how do you ask for a raise? You say, I need more money because I'm poor. Do you say, I need more money because they all make more money than I do? No, you can't say that either. You have to be able to show this is my job description here's, the responsibilities I've taken on and I've exceeded in here's, my tenure. This is how long I've been experienced in the whole industry. You really need to create a whole plan here. Improve your point. And so when those questions for shoes and roaster come in and people are like, that guy got my job and I didn't get it, I'm like, that's exactly not how you get it. And if we're going to continue to coexist in an industry together, me asking, what hardships have you faced as a self identifying woman or non binary person? Treat it like you're asking for a raise. Like, say, like, hey, listen, um, physically, I can't lift as much as some of my coworkers, so that's a hardship I have. So, like, here's what I've been going to the gym. I've been lifting. I'm trying to get stronger so I can prove that I can do that job. Yeah. Great answer. Wonderful. We love it. Thousands of them. There's a thousand of them.

Elena: I think the bottom line is, like, you can't just expect, like, just for things to naturally happen progressively over time. Like, you have to show up for yourself. I think that's really what's sad about some people in the industry where I've watched them, um, they have such strong, creative ideas, or they have suggestions, and a lot of the time, they don't speak up, and then they get upset when they don't. And I'm like, okay, but you have to understand, like, nothing's going to change. Nothing's going to get better for you unless you start standing up for yourself and putting yourself forward and saying, like, hey, this is everything that I'm doing. And it's like, it makes sense to be I think, like, it's good to not come at it from an emotionally aggressive standpoint, because that's something I would do. I'd be like, hey. Because I'm emotionally very aggressive.

Baylee: Um, I'm all fire. Whether it's good fire or bad fire, like, super cool, passionate things or just me losing my damn mind, I'm all fire, and I know that, man. I have men proof read a lot of things I write because I just need to know, like, I'm never going to let somebody tell me that I'm being that girl. And so, like, good coworker friends I have, I'm like, hey, read this for me. Just read it, and I don't need your critique. I just need to know, like, gosh, if I sent an email to my boss and I was perceived as being emotional or a bitch or out of line, I would lose it. So I'm like, just read this and tell me, is it that way? And they're like, no, that's good. I'm like, okay, cool. One man already said it's good. So two men probably think it's good. Cool.

Elena: Yeah, I was going to say, I think I've also gotten burned on the back end of reacting first versus thinking it through. So I'm at this point where I'm like, okay, I have this feeling, and I probably should let it simmer for a little bit and then reevaluate where I'm going. And I think that'd be a good tactic for a lot of people who feel like they're wrong. I know it's immediate for us to want to talk about it and have a conversation and find the instant solution. But I think it's really important to take the feeling you're having, let it, like, just ride that wave and then revisit it. Because there's a lot of things that we could get out of if we just took a step back versus going all in.

Baylee: Yes. Or just pull a classic dude move and just don't, uh, talk about your feelings. That's a good one, too.

Elena: Oh, my God.

Baylee: For the record, I really miss working with women. I really miss working, uh, with working with anyone that actually isn't, uh, a CIS male. I actually really miss that. I should just get noted because I feel like often I talk with another. She's, uh, actually like a sister of a best friend to me, m. But she's also a coffee roaster. And we're like, dude, you know what? Roasting with women, bro.

Elena: I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is. I just feel like okay, so from my experience at the roaster roasters retreat, I think for someone who's obviously kind of very new to this industry, talking to someone who's a veteran in this industry, I think it's a really interesting concept to talk about from being around a lot of the men that were in that retreat to being in that organization of the nonprofit. Little, like 45 minutes, by the way, which was too fucking short. Too fucking short.

Baylee: We'll fix that next year. Yeah, we'll fix that next.

Elena: And it was like, the women just like, bring, uh, a different energy. I feel like it's like we give a fuck. We care about what we're doing. And I don't know. I don't want to discredit a lot of what men do. I think it's like women do kind of lead emotively, I think, as a collective.

Baylee: And I think, uh, just personally, like, a lot of my feelings is that when I'm with non binary people and women specifically on teams, the way the leadership in the team goes is usually a lot more like, you're as strong as your weakest link, so let's pull up the back and all go together. And I feel like working with men, it's like, by your collar, pulling whoever they're running, and you're just, like, getting pulled. Um, and maybe that's the nature nurture thing. I don't know. I don't really want to pick it apart, but I just feel like in the same breath that I bash working with men, I also just want to say, like, yeah, the original question, I think, was toxic femininity, which is very rampant, um, at least in my volunteerism. Uh, and yeah, a younger me was like, fuck the patriarchy.

Elena: Fuck, man.

Baylee: We're going to take them all down. She is going to cure me. Roar. And an older me is like, okay, listen, if there's, like, a mantra to give to younger people in copy that want to roast or want to get into a male dominated section of that screaming, Fuck. The patriarchy is very not graceful. And though totally true, fuck the patriarchy, it isn't going to get you what you want. So, yeah, that whole pulling yourself up as that is very imperative.

Elena: What would you tell the next generation of people? Like, the next generation of any facet of the people that are in the industry?

Baylee: God, I'd have to read a book. Is coffee even going to be around for the next generation? Um, hot take? Uh, I don't know, dude. There's so many. I wanted to say something like, totally flip it and just be like, it's just fucking coffee. Um, because that's something I think I say, like, once a week, but it just depends on what it is. If there's people getting in a roasting, uh, unfortunately, there is no University Day Roasting. The books out there are fucking trash. They're, um, fucking trash because it's a one dimensional look at things. Uh, for me, I feel like a lot of my education and I've been really fortunate to work for companies that fund it. So I've been really privileged in that way. And having taken SCA courses and having gone to retreat for majority of my career and for having done these things, all of it's bullshit. All of it. It's fun. It's like it's cool. It's an experience, for sure. But at the end of the day, my mentor told me when I was having my first episode of Imposter Syndrome, she said, how many years have you been roasting? I think at that point, I was like, four. And she was like, cool. Four years. Whoever is newer and better than you and more passionate about it and getting opportunities that you're not like, you have four years. They don't, and nobody can take your years away from you. Um, yeah. I don't know if I actually had a mantra, I want to do something funny or give advice. It's probably just fuck around and find out. That's probably it.

Elena: Around and find out. I love that.

Baylee: That's probably it. Because it's like, know what you like until you do it. You don't know what you don't like until you try it. Right? Yeah. You just got to do it all. Uh, that's it. Pretty much everything I can think about can get boiled down to that.

Elena: So that's a really good giveaway of someone gave me this advice when I started. They're like, It's not what you think it is, and just go into it with that mentality. And I'm like, you know what? I was like, maybe that person is just being pessimistic. Because I think I also entered this roastering lifestyle with this idea that it was going to be this specific aesthetic, and I felt also victim to that. I don't want to act like I'm not, but I think the biggest thing that really hit me in the face was it's really not everything you think it is. It's really not. And it kind of does, um, go back to it. It's just coffee.

Baylee: Yeah. Which is a good one. Which is a good one. When god, what pisses me off some weeks, like, production schedules, right? Where I'm like, okay, well, we can't fulfill that order until this order, and here's why. In my row schedule, it's just fucking coffee. I don't even know why I'm wasting my breath talking to people about an order of operations. I don't even care. I don't even care. Just like, let's do whatever. Uh, I like that one a lot. Um, but I will say it is very, uh, for producers to say it's just coffee. It's actually my whole livelihood and what I do.

Elena: Right. We're definitely coming at it from a roasting perspective. I think it's, like the highlight of this specific episode is like, we can only talk. I was going to say we can only talk as roasters. What we deal with on a daily basis, it's really interesting considering my roasting position in comparison to yours, is very much like I'm a Swiss Army knife of doing everything. So I do all the coffee buying. I do all the coffee purchasing. I work with the importers. I do all the actual roasting and all the profile roasting and all the packaging. So it's really interesting coming from all the facets and then hearing how you interact with people is really funny. Um, yeah. I also kind of did this podcast with the idea that I'm like an ant in this field. Where I don't literally know anything, and it's like, I want to meet other non binary folk and women.

Baylee: Uh, if you want to stick with it, that's totally cool. That was everyone that you look up to or that you know, and those books that you're reading, those are those guys, too. It's like, you start, and that's totally fine. And, like, I was a drive through barista, and we didn't even have plumbing. Like, it's a Pacific Northwest cars on both sides. A drive through. Um, it is what you make it, and because I was actually I didn't want to be a roaster. I wanted to work on a stress machine. I want to be an espresso machine technician. Uh, and then somebody I'm a nerd. I like science a lot, right? And heat transfer and thermodynamics and things like that. Just things that I like. So I learned how to grow.

Elena: I didn't realize how much I'd fall in love with what I was doing until I really went through it all. I didn't realize how much of, like, we're talking shit a lot of the time, about all of the maintenance shit and all the things that we do as roasters and the cleaning and the fucking part, all of it. It's just, like, weird how much I find a lot of passion with working with a roasting machine. And there's, like, an oven.

Baylee: People make whole careers out of baking, so why can't you a coffee? It's the same fucking thing.

Elena: I also think that, like, you meant you made a really good point. It's, like, the people who are listening, if they're interested in wanting to roast or if they're interested in just being introduced to this, it's, like, literally go talk to the roasting person. They'll talk to you for, like, 30 hours about what they're doing and, like, the new, like, coffees that they're bringing out or the new coffees that they're bringing in or who they're working with or what they're really interested in, or.

Baylee: They'Ll probably won't honestly, like, roasters or assholes. I like that you think that that would happen, but what I can tell you is there's probably a coin toss of me doing that, uh, to somebody. Like, if somebody's like, hey, I'm really interested, I'd be like, yeah, prove it, depending on who it is. Right?

Elena: That was the best response, because I feel like I've met really good roasters where they were like, oh, finally, someone's talking to me about this.

Baylee: And it goes that way for me, too, to the point where my partner is like, you need to come with a warning label if somebody asks me a roasting question, do you want the 30 hours or do you want I mhm just need to know what one you want. Yes. Um, but even then, if somebody was like, I really want to learn how to roast, and be like, cool packaging departments over there. Right there. Do that for six months. And then maybe I'll look at you if you want to talk again. Um, and it's not because I believe in like, I don't necessarily believe in you have to earn it. But I do think there's something to be said about the seriousness of wanting something. You can't just be like, hey, I want this thing. Give it to me. It's like, well, we all start somewhere. And I'm really anti the whole roaster apprenticeship thing. I think that that's bullshit. It's a way to get free labor. Um, and it's gatekeeping. But at the same time, I'm not going to invest six months to a year of teaching you things I've spent a decade plus learning just for you to end up, like, leaving me in three months because you don't like it.

Elena: I think that's also, like, that's a really good way to talk about how hard it is kind of to find a roasting gig if you have no experience, is that a lot of people don't really expect you to stick around once you start to find out what it is. Which is kind of, like, really interesting because I remember when I tried to get into the roasting gig, um, how hard it was when I had no experience. And then now I'm like, okay. I can kind of understand why people are a little bit apprehensive before they start.

Baylee: I mean, especially, like, I don't know. You could start a fire.

Elena: The whole building down.

Baylee: Yeah. It is kind of a high risk bank. Yeah, for sure. I wish customers knew that. I'm in a space now where customers have to walk right by the roaster to go to the restroom. And like, the fact that you can't see that I am quickly moving and I'm clearly on a timer and moving with urgency that should probably tell you that this is a safety thing. I'm not moving that fast because I'm excited to be at work. You know what I mean? I need to get over there and do this so we can avoid anything.

Elena: Yeah, that's really funny. I'm not doing this because I want to be here.

Elena: HM.

Baylee: And so it's it's things like that. Like, you know, we had my after burner was failing. There is no afterburner.com company. In fact, if you Google an afterburner, it's actually a jet engine, um, that pops up, which isn't on your roadster or fly away. Yeah. All of these things that you use all the time, there is no warehouse supply roastery thing. And I'm really good at creative problem solving. Those are the things, I think that makes a roaster is like, okay, but you need to go find that part. You need to go try and a lot of it's me calling people and being like, hey, do you guys work on after burners? And they're like a ah, wallet. Never mind. Next. Um, yeah, I think that's what makes a roaster. It's not people like, I just want to roast the bad taha. It's fun. Like, you have to do the shit.

Elena: Yeah. Maintenance.

Baylee: Find out.

Elena: Yeah. That's going to be forever. The slow end of this episode is just fuck around and find out. Did you happen to see I don't know if it's like I get spam emails from different once you buy something once from one importer, they'll send you forever spam emails. And it's like, my thing is somebody somehow sent me something and it said, like, 23% of coffee roasters are female. And I think that number really blew my mind. And it kind of has stuck with me today. If there's actually in a good way.

Baylee: Or a bad way?

Elena: In a bad way.

Baylee: Okay. All right. Hey, that's a higher percentage than I would have thought. So it actually kind of blew me away in a good way.

Elena: Okay. I think it's just like, that's not enough. I feel like I hate when, uh, I wouldn't be mad if it was closer to the 50s, but I think it's, like, harder for me to.

Baylee: It'S.

Elena: Harder for me to really, like, be passionate about this industry when there's not enough female queer representation. And it's, like, sad that a lot of the queer folk kind of are in the customer service aspect of being baristas.

Baylee: I don't know why that is at all. I think I actually thought about this, uh, yesterday. I was talking about it. I said, sometimes I think she's the roaster. Like, the job is done. I feel like there's a lot of women and non binary representation now. Um, clearly, like, that she's the roaster room that's exponentially more than there was. I don't think the work is ever done. I don't want to sound like, okay, cool, I did the thing. But I'm like, is there a need for this anymore? Is there really? And yeah, fuck yeah, there is, I guess, 23%. It's still very low. I'm just really impressed that it's that much more yeah.

Elena: I feel like you're also coming from, like, not to make you feel old, but you're also coming from another generation of coffee. And I'm like, uh, maybe it's like this naive young spirit that I have towards, like, the fact that, like, there's not enough Queer Folk and there's definitely not enough females that are working in the industry. And then you're like, it's just coffee. Chill the fuck out and fuck around.

Baylee: No. Yeah.

Elena: Love it.

Baylee: That's what happens. Uh, retire the roasters that won't leave their machine for years. They die off and go away. I don't know. They just fly away, kind of. I've worked with a guy roaster who worked for a company for 23 years before he left. I currently work with a man who's been at the company for 24 years. Roasting jobs, uh, they're hard to find as much as it is that they don't ever become available. And I think once they do become available, they hire internally. I think it's brilliant. M. If you want to be a roaster, go be a barista and say you want to be a roaster, just keep saying it until somebody hears you and understands that if that's not an option and you just want to be a roaster, like, go into packaging or shipping and same thing.

Elena: Just work from the ground up.

Baylee: Yeah. And then it's funny, I actually didn't want to roast anymore. What year was that? I think it was like $2,000.

Elena: Uh, what pulled it for you?

Baylee: I, um, don't know. It just didn't seem like it was a long term thing. Like I could sustain it. I don't think that was necessarily financial, though. That was a factor as much as it was, um, I wanted to go into an art department. Um, we had an art department at the place I worked where they did all the private labels and graphic design and things like that. Um, and so I was like, oh, that sounds fun. I had a certificate in graphic design work. I drew in my spare time. That was very interesting to me. And cool that I could work in coffee that still do art. Um, so, yeah, I was holding out for, ah, the art department. And then they needed a roaster. No. I wish. I was like, I told my friends I told all my friends that I knew that roasted. And I was like, dude, go apply company. Killer benefits, whatever. I was in packaging, and I was just holding out for the art department. And I was like, go apply. Go apply. Everyone's like EW that company. Like, no way. You macro roasting. No. And then, uh, the supervisor came to me and said, I'll give you two more dollars an hour than what we're offering if you take it. Because I said no. I want the Art Department. He said, Two more dollars an hour? I said okay. So, yeah, then I got birthday.

Elena: What a story to. Get here.

Baylee: I know.

Elena: And you're still here today.

Baylee: I wish. It was really inspiring and awesome and totally heartwarming. I did this for the first time, and I knew forever. Yeah. I don't know what my life would be like without that shit anymore, to be honest. I signed a blood contract. I'm probably going to be around for a long time.

Elena: It's just like how that kind of works. I think what's a really interesting thing is what you said about, um, roasting gigs are really hard to find. Like, in general, the jobs are never open, and then they hire internally. And I think that's a really interesting thing that you said, because for someone who's also interested in not staying where I'm at and wanting to also progress in a different area, finding a roasting gig is, like, the most intimidating thing for me.

Baylee: What do you mean finding one?

Elena: Like, if I was to move from, uh, Ohio to move somewhere else, but still wanting to do roasting, that's the most intimidating thing. And it kind of makes me feel a little bit trapped with where I'm at. If I was even unhappy with my job, which I'm not. But in general, it's just trying to still stay in the field that you're working in and then also going somewhere else. It's really hard to find a stable idea that, yeah, this is going to be an opportunity for you.

Elena: Is there a specific thing in the industry? It doesn't have to even just be roasting. I know that you focus mostly on the roasting aspect. Is there something that you're extremely passionate about? This is a lot of the reason why I'm here.

Baylee: I would have quit coffee a long time ago if science wasn't involved. Uh, I don't really like um, how do I say this? Yeah, well, fuck yeah. That one for sure. That one. I also don't like these very airy concepts of flavor, profile and notes. That shit really turns me off. Uh, thermodynamics kept me in copy.

Elena: No, thermodynamics turns you on.

Baylee: Yeah, absolutely. I know it's not weird, especially as a creative person, like heat transfer, heat transfer, heat transfer. Um, everyone's always going to say the producers. And that's just true. Um, I hate how white savior, um, loving producers sounds at times. And I will never get behind a company that uses producer stories for sales. Um, but there is something really poetic in the sense that people spend crafted time and energy, excelling at this one thing and then it travels the whole fucking world. And then we do this like, weird witchy thing to it. And then people do it every morning. Like ritualistically every morning. There's something like really, I don't know, kind of woo woo about that. That hits, uh, for me. Get it? Spiritual, I guess. Um, yeah, that part, um, kind of checked all my boxes. I could never have a desk job as much as I wanted one at one point in my life. Uh, way too high. I need high stress.

Elena: Okay, but have you worked in the service industry?

Baylee: Yeah.

Elena: That's why I am convinced as someone who's worked in front of the house and back of the house, I don't do well. Uh, in a stationary situation. I need to be constantly, almost multitasking and doing a lot of things. We can blame a lot of our work experience for that.

Baylee: Yeah. Honestly, coffee. I just fucking I drink way too much coffee. I don't even know. It's weird. Have you ever heard bankers talk about money?

Elena: Yeah.

Baylee: And they say at some point they're touching it all day. That they're desensitized like it's not even hundreds of they're touching.

Elena: Mhm.

Baylee: I feel that way about copying most of the time, which is very sad. But also, I think a true testament to how much I've ingrained this into my whole identity.

Elena: I'm pretty sure like 95% of my body's, like, blood count has like caffeine and coffee in it.

Baylee: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And you know, like, it's kind of weird that I keep fighting a good fight in the industry because I feel like as somebody that's like punker than hell and listen to death metal and wears all black and swears like a fucking sailor and I do every bad thing to your palette that you should not do. I'm really not the type of person that does this and sticking with it, I don't know. It's just what I fucking do. I don't know. I'm doing it.

Elena: I think it's really interesting that you say that because I think what really gravitated me towards also staying in this industry is just like the people I've worked with. A lot of the friends that I've made working in coffee are some of the coolest fucking people I've ever met. And some of them are really I don't know if this is my extroverted side coming out, where I'm like, oh, these are really cool people, and we all kind of like the same shit, and we all have this artistic starving syndrome, starving artist syndrome, and we're all really cool and it's a queer inclusive space. And it's just like, it's always been like, this cultural thing for me more than the actual job. I don't know how many times as a barista, all of us have suffered together. And that's stronger, definitely.

Baylee: Yeah. It's team building.

Elena: Yeah, team building through pain, obviously. I want to give you a, uh, chance to talk about she's the Roaster or other projects that really you're starting on are really passionate about or talk about things that really in the industry as a whole, doesn't even have to be connected to you, that you're really passionate about, that people should check out.

Baylee: Shameless self promotion, plug, uh, shoes. The roaster is super awesome. If anyone's listening that has sponsor opportunities and wants to donate anything, uh, please email or reach out DM M. Because she's a Roaster, uh, like, always accepting donations. Um, and better yet, the scholarship opportunities are what drives education, uh, which is how we get more roasters and how we keep our roasters, like, relevant and active and inspired. So, like, that. I have a fat box, um, actually, like, two storage containers full of donated merch from, uh, companies like flow, poor Supply, department of Bruology, Aeropress, Ernest. They're like st sponsors that literally just give and give. So it's awesome that she's a Roaster has the platform and the donations to just, like, give away things. That's so cool. Um, coffee Roaster's gilbertree I will die on the hill. So this is my second term. Most people don't do two terms. Most people are smart enough to get out after one term. But this is my second term. Uh, they're two year terms. This is my second term with Coffee Roaster skills, um, which is an international, um, I don't know, council, so to speak, of people. Uh, we create events, education events. Uh, if you take classes at expo, we're usually the content creators for that. We do a lot of community outreach on social media and things like that. So, regardless, what I oversee in that is, um, coffee Roasters go retreat. Uh, it's usually the last weekend of August every year. It's incredibly expensive, and it's worth every dollar. Um, even if I no longer am on Coffee Grocery Skills, I'll probably keep a hand in retreat, um, just because I am, like, absolutely number one fan girl for that thing. I, uh, love it so much. I know what it has looked like, and I know what I can do differently, and I know how we can make this better. And I know that it is a massive financial bit to chew. Uh, just to get there, but it's worth it. And so, yeah, copy. Your treat. If you haven't been, you should check it out. Um, ask your employers to help you. Um, and if they won't, deedrich runs a scholarship for anyone that wants to go. They usually take four. They usually take four. Um, and there's just a lot of people I mean, if there's other nonprofits, like, I'm sure Glitter Cat wouldn't mind maybe helping for funding or if they can do something in the future. Those are kind of my two selfish plugs there.

Elena: Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that. That's the whole point of this, too, is not just to talk. It's to be able to like, this is your hard work. Go ahead and talk about it.

Baylee: Well, right. Uh, none of it directly benefits me, so none of it is, like, an ad. Um, if you want to directly benefit me, there's actually no way to do that. But I do work for a company where you can buy their coffee.

Elena: Where you work?

Elena: That's awesome.

Baylee: Very cool. Yeah. It's nice to be back in a Pacific Northwest company. Uh, especially a company that, uh, I've known my whole life, essentially. And the people are phenomenal. Um I'm fucking happy. I'm appreciated. Yeah. And what's even cooler is the Seattle independent radio station, because I was, like, such a cool little hip kid. Um, it's called KEXP. And they would play, like, sonic Producer was, like, the punk radio station that would come on. I think it was, like, Tuesday or Wednesday night. Uh, anyways, Cafe Vita is open inside of the KXC building. And so it's kind of like my love of my music.

Elena: Yeah, it's like coming full together.

Baylee: It is. I'm super queer for it. I fucking love it. I'm just gushy and mushy about the whole thing. But, um yeah. So I work for Cafe Vita. If you want to support me, there's no way to do that. You can buy their coffee.

Elena: Their coffee is great. So I can vouch because I've tried it, and my word is law and no one else's matters. It was great talking to you. I'm glad that I got a chance to really talk to you and get to know you.

Baylee: Yeah. Anytime. If anyone's listening to this, this isn't just an Elena special. I'm a resource. Um god, I will say allies. Fucking hate that. Um, I'm a resource. I guess I am an ally, as much as I hate that word that people use. Um, I'm a friend hit me up. If anyone has any questions, m within a reason, I'm here to help.

Elena: Within reason. Like, don't ask me to come and help you move.

Elena: Like, Dang, she's really high of these answers waiting.

Baylee: I'm going to be an influencer. I hate recording my face. And I'm never going to be that person on Instagram because I am terrified of fucking people.

Elena: Point blank. Period. That's it.