In this enlightening founder's episode of the eCommerce Podcast, host Matt Edmundson chats with Amy Leinbach of Big B, Little B about involving kids in business and the remarkable journey of building an eco-friendly product line alongside her 10-year-old daughter.

Amy shares genuine insights about youth entrepreneurship, teaching resilience through business challenges, and the flexible product development approach that has helped her company thrive. The conversation delves into tough decisions around when to discontinue products, strategies for managing eCommerce data, and adapting to external challenges like new tariffs.

What makes this episode particularly valuable is Amy's candid admission about learning from business failures and her practical wisdom on nurturing creativity in children while building a successful eCommerce operation.

Amy's journey demonstrates that involving children in entrepreneurship not only develops their creativity and problem-solving skills but can lead to innovative products with real market appeal. Her approach to learning from business failures and flexible product development offers valuable insights for any eCommerce entrepreneur.

Resources

Guest & Company

• Big Bee Little Bee Website: https://bigbeelittlebee.com/
• Big Bee Little Bee Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bigbee_lilbee/
• Amy's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amy-leinbach-40515124/

Episode-Specific Resources

• Seven Yays: https://sevenyays.com/

eCommerce Podcast Ecosystem

• eCommerce Cohort signup (free monthly calls for eCommerce entrepreneurs) - https://www.ecommerce-podcast.com/cohort
• Matt's LinkedIn Profile - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattedmundson/
• The eCommerce Podcast Newsletter for show notes and extra insights - https://www.ecommerce-podcast.com/subscribe
• Podjunction: https://podjunction.com/

Well, hello and welcome to the eCommerce Podcast with me, your host.

Matt Edmundson.

Now, this is a show all about helping you deliver e-commerce.

Wow.

And today is a founder's episode.

This is where I get to talk to someone who is actually running

their own e-commerce business.

And I'm really excited to have my conversation with Amy today.

We had a great prequel, uh, and just, yeah, really excited.

Uh, let me tell you a little bit about myself.

If you don't know, I've been in eCommerce since 2002.

Today I partner with eCommerce brands.

All over the world to help them grow, scale and exit.

And if you'd like to know more about how that works, then head over to the

website, eCommerce Podcast dot net.

It's all on there.

Where incidentally, you can also sign up of course, too, the wonderful

newsletter that we have where everything comes to your inbox.

The, the site kind of, I wanna say the show notes, it's not the show notes

'cause we really expand on them, uh, and deliver some great value in there.

So, uh, if you've not signed up to the email.

You should really get on that, the newsletter.

So go check that out eCommerce Podcast dot net.

Enough of all that, now you know that if you're a regulatory show and if

you're not, by the way, if you're new, a really warm welcome to you, where am I?

Manners.

It's great that you are here.

Uh, let's talk about today's guest.

Amy, uh, Amy, all the way from Austin, Texas, uh, uh, with Ms. Pacman behind her.

If

That's right.

Say hi.

She's, she's listening in today.

She might wanna get into the e-commerce game.

So she is, you know,

She's there.

She's

there, which is great.

Yeah,

I mistakenly said that.

That's awesome.

You have Pacman behind you, but it's not Pacman, it's Ms. Pacman,

which is very, very important.

Um, I just love the fact you've got an arcade game behind you.

I just think that I, I'm just like, I am totally getting one

into my, I'm in the, in what I call my man cave now, and I should

Oh, you need one.

You need one.

It's old school connection.

It's, it's just so good.

It's a different feeling.

Go get one.

It is a very different, you know what, can I just tell a quick, I appreciate

this is not the conversation of the podcast, but a quick short story.

Uh, my daughter who has just turned 18, like last week.

Um, a, a couple years ago we went on a trip.

Her and I, we went over to the States, um, and she wanted to do

the, the, Pacific Coast Highway.

You know, we, we rented a car and we drove the, the Pacific Coast Highway

along the coast of California, and we drove up from south of LA up to

San Francisco and it was beautiful.

And when we got,

Alma mater,

uh, Pepperdine.

You passed my alma mater.

That beautiful pass you went through,

There we go.

There we go.

Uh, it was, it was beautiful.

And, and, and when we gotta San Francisco, there was this sort of place down on the,

on what I'd call the docks down the, I think you call 'em the pier D uh, down

at the pier there was this sort of place where there was old arcade machines.

You went in and it was just, it was this massive place just for, and you walked

in and there was like pinball machines from the 1950s and I'm like, Zoe, we have

got to spend a little bit of time here.

And lo and behold, in that place, they found the one game that I was

good at when I was a youngster,

uh, it

was the Star Wars, uh, game, the Atari Star Wars

Oh, a chart.

Yes.

And I abs I, when I was a kid, I absolutely did.

So I got very excited and it's the one computer game or arcade game

that I can actually beat my kids at.

I'm, I'm actually, I can't, I can't bowl, but Capcom bowling.

Was my, the one with the bowling ball in the middle and you just do it.

I'd do it until I'd like pull my, my muscles between.

Did Zoe think, did she, did she kind get it?

I mean, it's a

Yeah, I mean obviously the, the graphics were very, very

different to what she's used to.

Um, but I think she was just loving the fact that dad was just very excited and

actually completed the game on his first

go.

Still still got the muscle memory,

like 50 years.

got it.

What a thing to still have.

What a thing to us anyway.

Back to e-commerce, uh, the real reason people have tuned in other than

to reminisce about arcade machines.

Amy, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Tell us a little about, uh, a little bit about Big B, little B.

Um, I have a daughter as well.

Her name is Marlo and Big B, little B. I'm the big B. She's the

little B, that's her brand name.

Um, she's 10, she not 18.

Uh.

But together we invent, develop, manufacture, and retail.

Um, our own creations, several of them invented by me, one of them

invented by her, and they're all eco-friendly products, but they make

your, your daily routines easier.

Um, for example, silicone food storage containers that, you know, historically,

silicone food storage can be a little.

Um, difficult to clean, not super user friendly.

Um, and we designed an approach that makes it easier for you

than even like a regular bag.

Um, and she invented, uh, the silicone product that keeps your marker caps

contained, grips your marker caps, so you just remove a marker and not, uh,

remove the cap so they can't get lost.

So everything is eco-friendly, eco-conscious, but mostly to do

with making your life easier.

On a daily basis.

That's what we do.

We've been doing

That's amazing.

I think we're going on 10 years now.

Well, she's 10.

Sure.

almo?

Yeah.

Well, so nine.

So nine.

'cause the first product I brought to market was for

her when she was, um, a baby.

We don't sell it anymore, but it was made for her.

And that was the beginning.

So a what?

That's incredible.

I love this idea of doing something.

With your daughter.

I mean, that's, that's quite an extraordinary thing.

Um, I, I, when our kids were growing up, my daughter's my youngest child, we got

three, my oldest is, I don't know, 23, 24.

You stop counting after a while, Amy, I'm not gonna lie.

Adult.

he's an adult.

Um, but when they were grown up, we never gave them pocket money or an allowance,

uh, as you'd call it on your side of the pond.

But I did say to them, if they had a business idea, I would invest in it.

Um, and so my son, when he was 10, set up a chicken business.

He wanted to buy chickens and he would go and sell the eggs

and all that sort of stuff.

And so,

uh,

did it.

I, I, I mean, I invested in it, so I paid for it to sort of

start, but yeah, he went and started this chicken business, which was amazing.

And so I,

in the chicken business.

well, it's, it's a good business to

be

Francisco, he's in the chicken business.

He sells his eggs.

He has a huge margin, And he's just a really cute kid with a great personality

and just, he's a phenomenal salesman.

And his eggs are, you know, I can't call him over price because, you

know, he's, they're worth that, you know, the way he cares for them.

So

Yeah, yeah.

chicken business.

It's

Start him.

young.

Yes.

stardom young, which is what you're doing with your daughter and I

I'm, how does she respond to the idea of being involved in e-commerce?

She's in, she's in love with it.

So I saw in her from an extremely young age what I think my parents saw in me.

Like she's, she's very, she's all of her toys that she'd get,

never in her mind were the toys.

They were on the box.

Like to her good, her an alphabet, you know, set.

She's making soup.

Do you know what I mean?

Like everything she was using, everything she could get her hands on,

she did something else with it always.

And she really loved being in her playroom with her stuff.

And you could always see everything going on behind the,

the eyes, even just as a baby.

And I really love to encourage that in children.

I actually used to be, um, a special education teacher and I

just really love to encourage the creativity and the problem solving

and finding other ways into problems.

So I was very much, I fed all of that every.

You know, a lot of times, you know, kids love, um, things that

would typically be trash pieces of styrofoam that came in boxes.

She's always had it all.

I've, I've never said no.

I joke about it.

I laugh like, please enough, like right now, huge constructions at a

cardboard and I've never said no to that because it, I, I feel like you

get that part of the brain so open

once so to keep it open and she.

She's always making stuff.

And so when it came, she was, she was six and a half and she had

the idea for the marker, Parker.

It doesn't, the product on the market doesn't resemble it at all.

You know, you see the process, it's really fun.

But, uh, when she created that prototype, she'd solve the problem

for losing her marker caps.

And I was like, let's, do you wanna, do you wanna make a product together

or see if it can turn into a product?

Really, and she wanted to and together, um, we did it.

And she knows so much about product development and e-commerce now,

because once you're done with the product development process, it's

like, well, you are not done now.

Now is when the real work begins.

You know, you gotta.

So she's, she's fascinated by it.

And just last night, um, she makes toys now just for herself.

She's a toy maker, but just last night we were working on, um, we 3D

printed a prototype for, uh, uh, a new size of the s shell, one of the

silicone food storage containers.

And she looked at the, um, the top of it, and she's just like,

the, the pattern looks too.

Um.

Cramped in one spot.

And she is like, and I don't like that.

It doesn't have like the slight slope on the top silicone panel.

And I'm listening and I'm like, okay, I agree with the scattering of the,

you know, how, how it's cramped in one spot and the design, but why?

Why with the slope?

Why do we need it?

We have the fit.

And she's like, well, the other ones, I just don't think it fits.

Like with the line of the other products, they all have a slight slope.

So she's like, I don't think it has to be, 'cause this one was completely flat.

She's like, I don't think it has to be completely flat, but I do think it needs

to have that same feel as the others.

And I was like, Ooh,

ooh,

is a, this is a 10-year-old young girl

saying this.

So, and she's right.

She's so right on that.

But the way she approached it, she wasn't just, at first she

was like, oh, it's so cool.

And then immediately see her start to study it.

It's, it's been phenomenal.

It's so rewarding.

It's so rewarding to watch her, um, develop these skills and, and mostly

have the confidence to say it, you know, have the confidence to show it, because I

respect her as an inventor and like, just like every other inventor, you know, and

product developer grown up, it's the same.

There's a

amazing.

no, no doubt.

I mean, there's a company here in the uk I'll give 'em a little shout

out called Seven Yays Who Make Birthday Week Advent Calendars.

They're quite, it's quite an extraordinary idea.

I think it's a really great idea, which they've, I. They've developed and, and,

and, and done well with all came because their daughter one day came back from

school and said, dad, I've got an idea.

And dad was like, I like that idea.

Let's see if there's any mileage in it.

And, and they've got a full fledged econ business as a result of, you know,

I have to look it up.

Do you say like, yay.

Like yay.

The number Seven

YAYS.

Yeah.

Seven Yays.

Oh my gosh.

The play on days.

The play.

I love it all.

Yay.

Like, oh, I love it all.

Yeah, it's, it's really clever what they've done.

And, um, I, I, I, I really like those guys.

A big shout out to Andrew and Charlotte if they're listening,

who head up seven years.

Um, but again, this idea of getting kids involved in the business and showing them

from an early age, I. I think is quite a remarkable thing, and I, and why not?

I mean, you, you're,

it, it is fascinating that you sit and say, oh, we just 3D printed a

some, because you can do that now.

It's not

can do it.

you can prototype super easy.

I just, I'm just gonna 3D print that and see what it comes out.

I don't like the word That's 3D.

Print another one and

see what that comes out like.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think the technology that we have access to now.

In some respects it's never been easier, but fundamentally the

principle still stays the same.

When I was a kid, my dad encouraged me to run a tuck shop at school, you know, where

you would sell, um, sweets and candy to the kids.

And so I did.

Um, I mean, we didn't have 3D printer back then, but I could go and buy

sweetss from one shop cheaply and sell them slightly more expensive to

the, and you learn that trade and.

You learn the value of money.

But the thing that I love about what you've done, you've tapped

into the creativity actually and imagination of a 10-year-old girl.

'cause I think that's easily lost and that's, it's

quite a remarkable thing.

I, I think also one of the important things is also showing her the bad

parts of, or the, the, the very challenging parts or when something.

Goes wrong.

I mean, certainly in the product development process, there are

a whole different approaches.

Like I taught her that we, we stay married to the problem that we're solving.

We don't stay married to the approach that we have, which is why it looks

different than her first prototype.

But also I think it's important to continue that development of problem

solving, to keep that part open, to always be solving problems because.

I don't wanna cause call it problems really, but eCommerce is like, every

day you're handed a, a challenge.

We're talking today on a day that we learned about new

tariffs yesterday afternoon.

And it will have an impact and it will, we will have to make a shift and

I don't keep those things from her.

I don't keep that from her either.

I said, these are the things and, and maybe these are some

of the levers we can pull.

Um, but even when it's not something she's really learned about, I always

bring her into that conversation because one day she will surprise me like she did

with her, you know, design suggestions in a way that I didn't think about.

One day she will enter in that conversation and say something

exactly like that design pointing out.

Like, what about this lever?

What about, you know, um, so.

We talk about the challenges just as much as we talk about the wins, as

Which, which, which is great 'cause they learn resilience.

Right.

And they

learn that the, the world is not also in shining rainbows.

And, and it's not all Carly Simon or whoever it is that's on the Netflix or

the kids, or, I'm just talking out of

Carly Simon.

I. I, I, I am Carly.

That's the one.

Carly Simon

I'm Carly.

Carly Simon.

It sounds like, I don't think my daughter's really into Carly Simon,

but I should introduce her to.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Um, you are so vain, I think is the, uh,

So,

yes.

Oh

you know what, Amy, the sad thing is there's people listening to the

podcast now going, who's Carley

Who's car?

Well, they look her up and they'll learn something amazing.

So there's a learning from this,

Yeah, I think, yeah, That's true.

That's true.

So this is great.

So I, um, why, why did you get into e-commerce?

What kickstarted that journey for you?

I mean, it was, it just the fact you are, you needed something for

your daughter and you thought, well, I'll make it and sell it online.

Or was there something more to it?

Um.

Yeah, I made it for her because the, it was a specialized baby towel where you

oftentimes, you dry a baby on a counter, you know, you're, you're dealing with it.

And I would pile up towels.

So I made a cushioned baby bath towel with wings.

That just made the process a lot easier.

I don't sell it anymore, uh, because the Manu manufacturing cost was so high.

I didn't know about over-engineering at the time.

I'm not trained in any of this.

I don't have any, I mean, I have a, a degree in education.

And uh, and so I didn't know, so we don't sell it anymore, but

when I made it, it was like, well, this is probably a good product.

I should give it a shot.

Maybe I'll test it out with some people in the neighborhood, put it on a Facebook

group, tried it out, you know, all that.

And then made a bunch and put it on Amazon.

And I was like, well, that's a pretty good way to test a product.

Put it on Amazon, see if people will part with their money for it.

And they did.

And it, it was hard.

The problem with that product too, was also as an inventor, you're always

having to explain to people what it is.

It's not like, here's a mouse, here's why my mouse is better.

It's like, here's my invention.

Let me explain to you the problem.

Let me tell you how we are approach to it.

Let me tell you how it's gonna, you know, so it was kind of a, it was

a complicated product like that, but I was just like, let's try.

I've never had like a fear of, um, failing in that way.

I'm just like, so maybe people won't like it and that's fine.

But that's how it all began.

Fascinating.

the next product was also made for Marlo, my daughter.

So

and,

and thus, the journey began.

yep.

And it was like something like every year and a half or so, every

two years we put out a new product and a couple, I'm very, I'm also

very quick to get rid of products.

If it's not working for the catalog, meaning like I, you're gone, like, there

was a product called Beekeepers, which build your own divided plate, but it

was me trying to solve the food storage problem going back, you know, before

the s shell line, the silicone line.

And I was just like, this just isn't the way.

It's not taking, I think it's not taking for a reason.

This isn't the way.

So even though I'd invested in the, the tooling and all that, I was like,

this isn't the way, this isn't the one.

Keep going, keep trying.

And I sat with the problem for years, I'd say saw Shell was the longest

development timeline that we've had for any of the products because the

getting to the solution, getting to the solution, and then making it excellent.

So.

The, the solution to the problem and then the technical elements of it.

I'm still, I'm still perfecting it.

Every version, it's like imperceptible to the eye, but it's different.

It's different every time.

The lock is a fraction of a millimeter, you know, longer.

Mm-hmm.

so, yeah, and I just move on.

It's, it's the resilience and it's, I'm fine with changing my mind and

I feel like I do that constantly.

It feels like, whilst in one sense there's a personal aspect to this story because

your daughter's involved, um, I. Normally when people are personally attached to

something, when there's that emotional buy-in, it's very hard to let things go.

But it sounds like you, you sort of found the best of both worlds.

Yeah.

I, I, and I think the way, one of the ways to get around that is to

go, it never stops being, it never stops being part of the journey.

You're, you're letting it go in the way of your, you're not selling them

anymore, you're not manufacturing them anymore, but it doesn't stop that

it got you to the next place, right?

So those beekeepers that aren't sold anymore, they were a necessary stepping

stone to the saw shell line, which is thankfully extremely successful.

Um.

But if I hadn't really identified, that's not the way and that's not

what's resonating with people and here's what's wrong with it, I don't think

I would've come to this off shelf.

So, so the personal attachment, just like so many things that we

have, you know, let that memory and that importance in the journey be

the thing you hold onto, not keep.

Banging your head against a wall.

Why isn't it selling?

Why isn't it this, I, I know it can be this and it's not.

You know what I mean?

Like,

let it be where it belongs in the past and that helps me 'cause it didn't go away.

Well, it's a, it's, I think it's a beautiful way of thinking about it,

you know, and, and reframing it.

It's like, well, this is, this is a stepping stone on the journey.

This

is something that we've got to do, but it, it is part of the journey.

At some point, we leave that part, and that's, that's actually quite

a, a, a good way of reframing it, I think, because I do see a lot of

people get emotionally attached to things and they just can't let it go.

They can't let it go.

I talk to a lot of my friends deal with that.

Like we, I have a lot of friends who are in similar businesses, you know, um, in

the same kind of place in the journey.

I see them struggle with it.

Um, but also, I mean, obviously you probably tell my daughter is my why,

and so when I make choices and like I always wanna model the things.

That I want her to, you know, I want her to see, you know, and

hopefully she can adopt and, and just acceptance of certain things.

You know, being really looking at it, looking at the truth of the situation

and going, okay, well I've taken this to the end of the, you know, I've taken this

to the end of the line with this, let's.

Shift.

Let's move on.

Let's put it where it belongs.

You know?

And, and doing it in a healthy way is really important for me.

And we've taken a lot of hits in this business.

We've had a lot of low points.

And I feel like what carried me and sometimes is no, I wanna model resilience.

The data's telling me things are working.

It doesn't feel like it.

And it feels like the luck isn't coming through, but the data's telling

me it's working, so I, I can't stop.

'cause that's not.

That, that's not the thing I wanna model.

It's not the thing that will feel good for me.

Um, and so those are the kind of things that keep me going.

So it's, it's really so much about resilience and as much as, you

know, the words overused, pivoting in, in a million different ways.

Well, yeah, it is.

I think that's resilience is not necessarily trying to flog

a dead horse to, to, you know, for a, a good old English

expression resilience, like you say, is learning what's working now and figuring

out what's gonna work tomorrow and, and being able to adapt from one to

the other with any, without any loss of enthusiasm or momentum.

To quote Churchill, it's not quite Churchill's quote, but

Stopping is not quitting.

Do you know what I mean?

Stopping something doesn't mean you're quitting something.

It just means it's, it's just changed.

It's just moved.

And I think this is quite an important, I suppose it's, if I look back over

my e-comm career, it's one of those things where actually I've, I've

been okay a bit like yourself, Amy, to go, actually, that's not working.

I need to stop that now.

You know?

Um, and just, and just bring that background to where

it, where it needs to be.

Um, what's been your biggest learning, do you think, in e-commerce?

Feel the feelings, absorb the information, whatever.

It's right.

Like whatever it is, just, you know, something happened, absorb it, you

know, I hate to say like the, the age old, like learn from it, you know?

But take what you can feel the emotions.

Sometimes the hit is hard, you know, like obvious, you know, with

the tariff thing, not to harp on it, but like with the tariff thing.

Okay, listen, feel what you're gonna feel.

If you wanna feel something, feel it.

And then as quickly as you can.

Deal with it, you know, deal with it.

Go, okay, now you know, now we have this information.

And what was the original question?

Sorry?

You

What's been your biggest learning in

learning.

Yeah, so, okay, so I'm still, still on the train.

Sometimes it goes.

Um, but I feel like getting there faster, that's been the learning.

And I think I, I do think that doesn't necessarily come from discipline.

I think it comes through practice.

Mm-hmm.

Like knowing it's not the end of the world.

No.

And I have not seen an A situation that's come like from the outside.

That really is like, that's the thing.

It's just like, these are factors knowing, okay, this one's gonna hurt, this one's

gonna hurt, deal with it, move on.

And it, I think it just takes practice.

So if you're at the beginning of the journey.

Just remembering, okay, this is gonna be tougher to get from, you

know, here to here, uh, right now.

But I'll almost learn it's just a muscle to be developed.

And just know if you're in the beginning of the journey, just

know you'll, you'll get there.

So try to get there quicker.

And, uh, if you've been along the journey for a while and you're still struggling

with it, just remember you dealt with it.

You've done this a million times before.

If you are years into your journey, you have dealt with.

Problems, like whatever you're struggling with today, you've dealt

with something similar before.

Get there faster.

Yeah.

Very good.

Very good.

Hey, listen, if you're listening to the show, wherever you are in the world, and

you would like to hang with fellow e-com founders, uh, like Amy, then why not

think about joining the e-commerce Cohort?

The e-commerce Cohort are mastermind groups that meet around the world.

Uh, there's one in Australian, New Zealand.

There's one in the uk and there is one starting fairly soon in.

The us they are online groups, so you don't have to travel

and they're free to join.

You just get to meet e-commerce founders and get to chat about what's going on in

eCommmerce network with fellow eCommerce, shoot the breeze and figure out how to

run your e-commerce business better.

If you wanna know more about e-commerce Cohort, checkout

the eCommerce Podcast website.

There's a whole bunch of information on there.

I'm in there.

So come say, how's it?

It'd be great to meet you, uh, in the eCommerce cohorts.

More information at eCommerce Podcast net.

Amy, listen.

Um.

eCommerce is this big giant of stuff that you've got to think about.

Right?

Um, I and the, the less people, well, in some respects I've got quite a

lot of people in my eCom business.

I still have to think about all the stuff.

Um, I just don't have to think about the detail necessarily.

Um, what's been, I suppose, from an e-commerce point of view, the hardest

thing for you to wrap your head around that you is kind of taking you a bit of.

It's time to learn, but it's actually had quite a big impact on your

business, whether, I don't know, email marketing, Facebook ads, or whatever.

I'm just kind of curious.

It's a tough one because there's so, there's so much, um,

there, there really is there, there, it just depends on the, um, on the day.

Um, but I feel like, okay, some of the big ones, let's just talk about one of them.

Um, one of them is data for me is very, very, very hard and I had to find a way.

To make it work for me, so my spreadsheets might look so childish

to somebody, but they work for me.

I had to learn how to work with the data.

There's no getting around that, you know, and data, not just like, I'm

not talking about like sales data, performance data of organic posts.

Right.

Um, shifting to looking at some parts of the data more than others,

like this week alone, I'm like, no, I gotta focus on the meta ads.

I gotta focus on my cost to acquire the customer right now, because I

gotta work on every penny, every bit.

Now, especially with the news, like, I gotta work on it.

The RO ads is so nice to look at, right?

I'm like, oh, okay.

I am over this amount.

No, I really have to look at the cost right now.

Without the data, I can't do that.

You know, and okay, so what are the social posts that are taking off?

Okay, looks like microwave.

Microwave, like we talked about, microwaving, microwaving, microwave.

We tried to talk about lost lids that didn't hit.

That's all data too.

And I think for me, that's one of the ones I avoided.

I avoided it for so long because I didn't feel I had the natural skillset.

And I don't, I don't, it's spreadsheets, it's, it's really very difficult.

But for me, I had to, and just finally coming to terms with,

there's nobody coming in to save me

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Nobody's coming in from the outside because I have to be

the one to see it all, no matter how many people are helping.

Like, but I have somebody on meta ads, you know, and I.

But I have to understand it.

In order to manage it, I have to understand it.

And so I'm not gonna use the term dumb it down 'cause it's not.

It's just a different way in.

So I had to find a different way in on the data.

And uh, the other one is social media because, what's the word?

It's not trends, but the way you work with, let's say

years ago, it was influencers.

Now, like my folks gonna be on more of the affiliate program

and it is different, you know?

Um, so looking right now, um, how to manage a program like that.

Um, but yeah, those are probably the big ones.

Like, 'cause marketing in general, and right now, you know, obviously

I'm talking about marketing, advertising, stuff like that.

Um, but they're a constant process.

They're a constant process.

And, um.

But yeah, I, I could literally sit here for like three hours

and answer this question.

Unfortunately,

Well, it's a really interesting question from my point of view,

because when people enter commerce.

There's you, you get into it and you kind of go, there is so much that

I don't, that I didn't know that, I don't know if that makes sense.

There's a, there's a whole

it's a whole world.

Yeah.

and knowing what to work on for my business, I think is half the problem.

So you, I think there's a temptation when you're starting out in

eCommerce to try and do everything.

I've gotta run Facebook ads, I've gotta run Google Ads, I've gotta

do the social media, I've gotta do product development, I've gotta do

branding, I've gotta do optimization.

I need to get into SEO, so I've gotta write blogs.

Do I need to do a YouTube channel?

Where's the podcast?

Do you know what I mean?

There's just

you, you look at it and you kind of go, oh, and then there's email marketing.

I've gotta build my email list and you, and you go, holy cow.

There's just so much to do out of, out of your own journey, what's been the

Well, if I may, if I may, I have a question.

So when you were about, let's say, I wouldn't say the number of years into the

business that I am, but kind of in the phase that I am, where it's like we were

at a certain point and now we're really growing, uh, fortunately, very fast.

Um.

What, if you remember, what were some of your biggest challenges

at that point in the business?

The biggest challenge, I think that we, it took me a while to realize it, right?

So it's not like I understood this at the time.

It's this thing that I understood looking back and tried to summarize

everything that went on at one point in my e-commerce journey, uh,

our business nearly went bankrupt.

Because of a number of reasons, but the main one being that we were turning over

around 6 million pounds at the time.

So what's that?

About seven or $8 million.

So we, we weren't small, but we weren't massive.

Um, and the supplier said to us, um, sent me a letter actually saying that

we're gonna change our pricing policy to a more you buy the more you pay policy.

Um, and because we, we were one of their biggest customers, our prices went up by

30% overnight and, uh, business halved within, inside of a couple of weeks.

And it was, it was really fascinating.

You know, I, I call it, um, I call it my 38 million pound, uh, lesson for

want of better expression because I think that's how much we lost in sales.

And so you've gotta learn from that, you know?

Yeah, there's definitely some lessons to learn there.

And what I realized was, um, Amy, that there are seven

key areas of e-comm, right?

You've got, um, product, you've got branding, you've got your

tech stack, you've got marketing, you've got optimization, you've got

the customer experience, and then you've got this whole growth aspect.

These sort of seven areas that you look at.

I realized that as a company we were good in one area, possibly two.

We were average in three of them and we were not great in two of them.

So the analogy that I use is we were a bit like the guy that goes

to the gym and just lifts, you know, just as excise to build his biceps.

Nothing else.

So he is got massive biceps, but it all looks at proportion

to the rest of his body.

And if I look back, I think in that phase, and we were growing massively

rapidly at the time as well, I would say, because we just focused in on what we

thought moved the needle for as there, and then we neglected other areas.

Whereas what I should have done was as things were growing and as we had the

resources invest in those areas to make sure that every, the whole business grew

at the right pace, if that makes sense.

And so that would be my answer.

Was SEO at the bottom.

I would Were were the things that gave you immediate returns, like the things

you focused on most and the things that were longer term returns fell or,

Yeah.

And you, and we tended to, like everybody, you focus on things

that you can measure, right?

So in fact, I'm writing a, a, my, my latest blog poster, which I'm writing

at the moment, is about measuring things you can't measure, like how

effective you are at storytelling, for

Yeah.

Whereas you can, you can measure if I run this ad, then I get this return.

Right?

It was a, and you focused in because that's what everybody told you to do,

right?

You, you, you focus in on those things, which you can measure, and what gets

measured gets managed and, you know, we hear these things all the time and, and

they're useful things to think about.

Um, but I, I think in a world which is obsessed with data

in, in many ways, it can be

problematic and you get, um, the analysis paralysis because there's so much data you

don't actually know what to do with it.

But yes, we, we would focus in on those things like we were hot on

Google ads, we were hot on Facebook.

We could measure those and you could crank those

Yep.

Um.

What that did was it gave you an instant feedback loop.

Um, and so you knew that you were growing today because of what you did yesterday,

and so all the other stuff which was a bit more like you would say,

medium term, bit more long term, bit more stuff that you can't measure,

that just went out the window.

I.

Yeah, I bet it ha, it's, I've done it too.

I've done it too, and I'm starting to, it's, it's interesting you bring it

up now 'cause it's one of the things that I'm like, this is my, like Q2,

like, 'cause um, we had talked in the pre-call, like we've changed off, um.

Our fulfillment, we're not doing anymore.

I'm not managing it all.

It's in a different state.

It's fantastic.

Which frees up, um, me not being involved in that means I can allocate

my time a little bit more, uh, wisely for the place in the business we are.

And, and that time is really going to, getting a big picture of where I'm at and

what of those things is getting, had been completely ignored and, and starting to

get a little bit, you know, up on that.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

It's a journey you go through, I think, and you, you figure these things out.

Um, as, as you go through it, I'm curious what's, what's moved the needle the most

for you, do you think, as a business?

What, what's worked the really well?

So it's so hard to say this, uh, because I think it's so not helpful.

Uh.

I'm so

curious right now.

the truth is the softshell line, the food storage line.

Okay.

It's so funny.

Um, uh, you know, you, you look at it, and we had some real luck in

the beginning, but when you look at, like, if you're looking at the, the

growth, um, you'll see that when the softshell launched, the game changed.

And, and, and fortunately that lifts all the products, right?

'cause now you have more people coming to the site.

You have more people seeing your social and all of that.

But, um.

Uh, the release of that product line really changed so much, but

I think the, the learning in that is that, so I leaned into it.

Okay.

I wanna talk about my daughter's invention all day long.

Okay?

That's what I wanna talk about.

I wanna post about Martha Parker every day, but if you look.

I don't, I talk about the saw shell now, like this is the one that's compelling.

This is the one that's getting you to the website.

This is what's making the difference.

This is what I'm gonna talk about and I'll sprinkle the others in.

Um, but that is what changed the game and then going.

Was it the Pareto principle or something about the 80, you know, 80 that, yeah.

Um, I'm going, I'm not fighting this anymore.

Like I am following that.

I am following that now.

You are getting all of my attention.

You know, you're getting 80%, you're getting all of that.

You, because that is the product, the change the game for the

business, and now it's working for the other products are lifted as a

Yeah, so that's your hero product, isn't it?

Anyways.

I think it's an interesting one that, uh, the listening to you talk about that.

And I think it's right that you press into it and you make it work,

you know, with your hero product.

And I can think on every website that I'm involved with, there is one product,

it, and it follows the 80 20 rule.

And it's your hero product and you have to, you have to

have it first in the search.

You have to have it first on the homepage.

And it, it makes a lot of sense to do that because that's the reason

why most people are there and it does lift your other products.

I also couldn't afford to, um, can't, couldn't afford to do meta ads for the

other products 'cause the price point is too low of those of the other products.

We try to keep everything accessible and, um, oh, there's something in this,

I think, so the reason we're able to do meta ads for the food containers.

For the soft shells is because people buy multiples.

Okay.

So like if you look at everything, I have nothing.

I don't think there's anything on our website that's, no, it's 1799

and under for a single thing, and that's the most expensive thing.

It's like we have 5 99 to, so if you're thinking of that and someone's coming to

the website to buy one, build a straw in a little pod, it's like 4 99 or about 4 99.

I can't advertise.

I can't advertise it.

You can post for organic, uh, but you can't advertise on that.

But if you think about it, the original softshell, which is the one that sells the

best, it's 14 point 99 retail on its own.

Um, but that I couldn't afford to advertise.

So I offer bundles and they're heavily discounted and they come with freebies.

So people are buying four with the stuff.

Now, that's where I can afford.

So I make that so compelling.

That's the really compelling offer.

My bundles, and now I can afford the ad spend.

Now I, I can afford it.

So, and you can see on the, the data shows me that that's what people are buying.

They're buying the multiples.

I can afford it.

Um, so it's the only one I advertise.

Fantastic.

Uh, if you wanna know more, check out big b little b.com and you can

see the, the soft shells on there.

I'm looking at them now.

One's got blueberries in which is making me slightly hungry.

Uh, blueberries is my favorite fruit.

All the, and, uh, I do my own photography, any of the product shots,

that's a skill that I've learned.

I've learned to do my own photography and, um, it's just a thing I've, I've

found that I enjoy, I do try to build in.

Um, I'm, you're not gonna find me easily outsourcing.

I mean, I'll, I do have some other photographers from time to time, but

I do like to find the things that I can spend time on in the business that

I truly enjoy, because my favorite thing is the product development.

You can't do that all the time, but I do enjoy the photography.

Uh,

they give you these little moments of pleasure, don't

I make time for it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And why would you not?

I think it's, I think it's important to do that, um, you

know, whatever you, but I think the trick is not to get just into that.

Like,

if you just spend all your time on photography,

you've got a, you've

No, but I, I've just found at this point in the business, I'm doing so much of the

things that I do not get that creative, part of me does not get filled up, right.

My e-commerce day to day, and I'm a, I'm a creative person, and so.

It's not something that I like go, oh, so I'm gonna spend all

my time doing the creative.

No, I just allow myself those opportunities that are important to do.

It's not like something that's not important, like it's important.

Um, content creation all does is very important.

Um, so I allow myself, um, but no, these days for, I am spending

most of the time doing stuff that.

Never had any background or never really enjoyed in a lot of cases,

really struggled with, and, but I'm getting better and it's

getting, it's getting easier.

It's getting so much easier actually

Well, and also you're reaping the rewards a bit.

Now, if your business is growing.

Yeah, that makes it a lot easier.

Yeah.

The day to day is a lot easier when you're, when it's, you know, the fruits

of your labor are showing it's a little tougher when they're not so, you know.

That does help.

it really, I mean, I've managed businesses where there's been rapid

growth and I've managed businesses where there's been rapid decline, and it's

definitely more fun when there's rapid

growth.

Um, it definitely more fun.

What's your, um, I mean you've mentioned the tariffs.

Um, is, is that the biggest thing you are, you are kind of thinking about at

the moment that could maybe derail you?

Not completely, but a little bit.

Is there is or is there something else top of mind?

Um, it's definitely the.

The issue of the day, right?

Like, and this will be something I'm working on, but I, I don't

feel that I'll be drilled by it.

It changes things.

It, it's, you know, if the margins are gonna close a little bit,

then it probably means fewer big sales and, you know, maybe.

Turning a few things, but um, it's not a huge big deal, but it

is the thing of the day and it is the thing we have to plan for.

But like a couple weeks ago, the bill for our latest container of inventory was

due, and that was the concern of the, the, you know, you're hand when you're handing

over just huge amount of cash and you're like, okay, it's, and it wasn't a problem.

Thankfully, you know, we.

Plan to pay the bill, but it's just, you know what I mean?

In that moment you're like, okay, let's move this and that.

So it really just depends when you ask me, like, there's nothing,

there's nothing scaring me right now.

Inventory will, I think, will scare me.

I don't know that that's gonna go away because each time we

order, we order more and more,

which means, you know, you're taking like everything you have

so you can have even more delle.

Um, so that always.

Stresses me out, but like I've heard that a billion times over, you know, and, and

every time, even if you have presales, it still is like, it feels like such a risk.

Like what if people get over this?

Or what if, what if, what if, what if?

But I don't feel that there's anything, um, on the horizon,

and especially because.

I'm not saying people need a soft shell, I'm not saying

they like need our scrubbing.

Like there's other, you know, things you can, you can have, but we don't sell

stuff that's just purely superfluous.

Like, these are things that help your life.

There's, they're meant to be convenient, you know, and so it's not just like,

oh, it's gonna be the first thing people say goodbye to with thing.

So I'm not, I'm not.

Overly concerned.

Um, it, I'm definitely going to be some of the things I'm working on though.

Right now that, you know, I don't let this news derail me from the other priorities.

Like I'm setting up a new affiliate program.

That is still happening right now.

That's still happening.

My meetings are tomorrow.

Like that's what we're doing.

That's not gonna change.

Um, so the priorities remain the priorities for me, and I think that's

something I've learned as well.

Like, I don't let other things.

Take my attention anymore, like everybody's influx of emails can't

be the thing I do first or the most important thing of the day, right?

The important thing of the day has to remain that, right?

And affiliate marketing is part of my plan for this year.

So that's gonna happen no matter what I have to do with the news.

So.

Fantastic.

Fantastic.

Amy, I've got to the stage of the show where I am gonna ask

you for question for Matt.

This is where you give me a question, I'm gonna go away

and answer it on social media.

So what is your question for me?

So I have to, so this is an assumption built in, so

correct me if I'm wrong there.

I assume there was a time then you, you just perhaps didn't want to do it.

It wasn't feeling.

Did you ever have a moment where you're just like, I don't know if this is it.

I don't know if you can, I don't know if I can hack it.

I don't know if I can get past this hurdle.

I just, from a, like, there's too much negative happening right then.

And you're feeling it, right?

If you've had that, what got you over it or what few things got you past it?

Fantastic.

I will answer that question over on LinkedIn.

If you wanna know my answer to the question, come find me

at Matt Edmundson on LinkedIn.

I think that's probably one of the best questions I've been asked yet.

Amy, I'm not gonna lie, I think that's a very, very good question.

I'm looking forward to answering this

I'm looking forward to reading it.

Yeah, yeah, I'll tag you in the post,

no doubt.

Now, um, if people wanna reach you, if they wanna find out more about what

you do, what's the best way to do that?

Um, you can find us on through the website.

You'll see our social handles.

You find us on Instagram, @bigbee_lilbee, L-I-L-B-E-E.

Uh, the company is Big Bee Little Bee like a buzzing bee, but you can

find, you can find us everywhere.

And, um.

I love, I really do love talking to, to community members who are, you know, in

the same, in the same journey, you know, even no matter what point you're in.

So don't hesitate.

Fantastic.

Well, we will of course link to the website in the show notes, which,

you know, if you're just on a podcast app, you can just literally scroll

down as long as it's safe to do so you're not driving, of course.

Uh, and just click the link and it'll take you through to Amens site.

And of course, if you sign up to the email.

The link will also be in the email.

Yes, it will.

So, uh, check that out as well.

Amy, listen, I have tightly enjoyed our conversation.

One of the things I like to do.

I should have told you this before we hit record.

I'm really sorry.

I just realized I didn't tell you everyone's listening.

What did he not say?

Um, one of the things I like to do is, uh, I have this thing at the end,

this sort of last minute or so of the show called Save the Best Tool Last.

Uh, and so I'm curious for those that you know, stay to the end and listen

to the end, like to have a little bit of extra value, uh, what's your, um.

I guess, what's your top tip?

What would you, what's one thing that you'd maybe have not said that

you think would be super, super helpful for, for people out there?

So.

I'd say don't let the fear of failing publicly stop you from

making choices that you need to make.

Okay.

I've failed publicly.

Um, I've succeeded publicly and I. Pretty much no one's

paying attention, pretty much.

No one's paying attention.

You know what I mean?

They, and if they're paying attention, they're paying attention

for the 0.3 seconds of attention it takes to, you know what I mean?

To, to look at a post,

and then you're gone.

You know, it, it may make you not feel good to hear it, I don't know,

but like people aren't paying as much attention to your choices.

Your successes and failures as you may think they are.

So just, just do it.

If it feels right, like just, just do it.

And if it doesn't work out, they only thought about it for 0.3 the second.

So I just do it.

You know, there's gonna be so many choices.

There's gonna be so many risks.

You have to take so many, you know, ventures outside of your

comfort zone, no one's watching.

Mm-hmm.

Brilliant.

Amy, thank you so much.

Uh, loved,

loved, loved our conversation.

Thank

you.

for coming on.

Uh, and thank you for listening to the show.

Like I say, if you wanna know more, head over to ecommerce-podcast.net.

Um, but a big shout out to the team, uh, at Podjunction

that put the podcast together.

Thanks to Josh Edmundson for writing the theme music, uh, and to all

you eCommerce fanboys out there a bit like me, all you eCommercers.

fun with it.

Thank you, Amy, for joining us.

Everybody else.

I will see you next week.

That's it from myself.

That's it from Amy.

Bye for now.