Leaders don’t fail because they lack ideas — they fail because they can’t communicate them.

In this episode, I sit down with Lucille Ossai, award-winning communications trainer and author of Influence and Thrive. From Lagos Business School to global boardrooms, Lucille has helped leaders transform how they connect, persuade, and inspire.

We unpack her 3 rules of effective communication and why mastering writing is often the fastest way to expand your influence.

🔑 In this conversation:

• How Lucille stumbled into communication after starting as a stay-at-home mum
• The surprising power of writing in an AI-driven world
• The 3 rules that instantly make you clearer and more credible
• Why communication is the #1 skill that drives leadership impact

📖 Learn more about Lucille:

Book: Influence and Thrive → https://amzn.eu/d/5h8mZDO

Website: www.lucilleossai.com

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/lucilleossaicommunicationspro

✨ If you’ve ever felt your voice isn’t being heard, this episode will give you the tools to change that.

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction to Powerful Communication

00:14 Lucille Ossai's Journey to Communication Expertise

01:29 The Importance of Communication Skills

03:19 Benefits of Effective Communication

05:19 Implementing Effective Communication

09:09 Three Rules of Effective Communication

12:56 Influence Through Communication

15:50 Overcoming Communication Challenges

24:50 The Power of Writing in Communication

26:22 A Nervous Start and Building Skills

26:45 The Importance of Writing in Business

27:57 Reading to Improve Writing

29:10 Blogging as a Tool for Improvement

30:46 The Role of AI in Writing

37:50 Effective Leadership Communication

41:56 Optimism for Future Business Leaders

45:39 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Visit presentinfluence.com/quiz to take the Speaker Radiance Quiz and discover your Charisma Quotient.

For speaking enquiries or to connect with me, you can email john@presentinfluence.com or find me on LinkedIn

You can find all our clips, episodes and more on the Present Influence YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@PresentInfluence

Thanks for listening, and please give the show a 5* review if you enjoyed it.

What if the reason your ideas aren't landing isn't your

2

content, but your communication?

3

Today, I'm joined by Lucille Ossai,

a award-winning communication coach,

4

Lagos Business School faculty and

author of Influence and Thrive.

5

Lucille went from stay at home mom

to Global Authority on Influence.

6

And in this episode, she reveals the

three rules of powerful communication.

7

Why writing is your hidden leadership

8

John (2): advantage , And how to be heard.

9

Even if you are an introvert.

10

If you've ever felt like your

work should speak for itself

11

and yet you're still overlooked,

12

this conversation will change the

way you show up, write, and speak.

13

welcome Lucille Asai, welcome to the show.

14

Lucille Ossai: Hello.

15

Thank you very much for having me, John.

16

John: It's a real delight and

when we spoke before it was hard

17

to narrow down all the things.

18

So many things I would love to talk

to you about, but we'll try and

19

get to the most important things

anything else we have time for.

20

We'll get to that as well.

21

But I know that you've been shaping

young hearts and minds and helping

22

to teach the skills of influence

and communication to young people.

23

Why has that been so important?

24

Lucille Ossai: really, really important

because I stumbled into the field

25

quite by accident many years ago.

26

I was a stay at home mom at the

time, and I all just used to

27

wonder why things weren't right.

28

I would watch the television,

I watch interviews, I would

29

just see complaints online.

30

I just, communication is not really

the way it was supposed to be.

31

So I just started following trends.

32

I started researching, and the more I went

deep into the communication angle, the

33

more interested and intrigued I became.

34

It just took off From there.

35

I started a blogs and a blogging

researching, and I just grew

36

extremely passionate about it.

37

I became almost obsessed,

with effective communication.

38

if I look back now, to the point

where I started onto this time, I've

39

just realized that communication

is now critical to effectiveness.

40

As a professional, as

a student, as a leader.

41

it's one of those skills that is

increasingly getting more importance as

42

time goes on, especially in the age of ai.

43

With this fear of AI taking on jobs.

44

one thing relevant to professionals,

executives, and leaders, regardless

45

of their industry or their field.

46

So it's just something that I

believe everybody can hone and

47

I hope I get the opportunity.

48

'cause just like you said, there's

just so much to talk about, but I

49

hope I get the opportunity to share

tips tricks and practices that empower

50

people to communicate more effectively

so they can go ahead and do all those

51

great things and achieve great fits

in their careers or in the business.

52

John: I wonder for you, what

difference has working on communication

53

skills made for your own life?

54

Lucille Ossai: incredible benefits.

55

I'm an introvert by nature, and when I

say this in my training sessions or in

56

class or in front of leaders, I hear

gasps and people are like, no way.

57

I was like, yes, it's true.

58

those who really know me, I'm an

introvert, but I realized that.

59

Even for people who are a bit reserved

and on the quieter side, if you are

60

able to use communication to advance

your ideas, share your knowledge and

61

to just advocate for things that are

important to you, you would get noticed.

62

it doesn't necessarily matter

if you do not know anybody if

63

you don't have connections.

64

And for me, that has been an

eyeopener, especially in Nigeria.

65

John: Yeah.

66

Lucille Ossai: And I'm not just in

Nigeria, but I referenced Nigeria

67

'cause that's where I'm currently based,

who, you know, usually opens doors.

68

But what I've found is that if you are

able to speak effectively, and more

69

importantly, if you are able to write

convincingly, people take notice.

70

I have been able to connect with

incredible people across the globe.

71

People that I have considered beyond

my level, my social network, I've

72

been able to reach out to them,

connected with many on LinkedIn.

73

A couple of those people that I'm really

friendly with, even on social media, on

74

LinkedIn, I have never met in person.

75

over the years I've followed

the work, shared my insights,

76

and broadened my network.

77

that has been really important to

me and, it has helped me to position

78

myself beyond the confines of my region.

79

I'm able to get on, international

podcasts, and I've been given the

80

opportunity to share my expertise

and techniques with a wider audience.

81

It's helped me sharpen my visibility,

it's helped increase my knowledge

82

and it's also helped me in my work

as a communications trainer and

83

coach and facilitators so personally.

84

It's been fantastic.

85

John: I can certainly relate to

all of that having had very similar

86

experiences myself let me ask you, we

talk about communication and having

87

effective communication there are lots

of people who get these trainings or

88

they'll buy a book but never really

do the implementation side of it.

89

So they have a bit of a knowledge, but

they don't really put stuff into practice.

90

What, in your mind, should

effective communication look and

91

be like when it is implemented?

92

Lucille Ossai: Okay.

93

It should be clear.

94

the goal of your communication should

be clear to the recipients or the

95

audience, and you should be able to

inspire them to take some action.

96

Usually when you communicate with

somebody, you want them to feel

97

a certain way or do something.

98

this could be ranging from things that

would benefit you or benefit a community.

99

for business communication,

there's usually a goal for your

100

communication, and that's what

separates business communication

101

from other kind of communication.

102

There's a goal, you are not just

communicating because you want to hear

103

the sound of your voice, or see your name.

104

in print, there's usually a purpose

for which you're communicating.

105

that purpose has to be clear,

so the recipient or the audience

106

should get the same understanding

that you meant to convey.

107

technically it's called shared meaning.

108

what you are communicating

should be the same as what the

109

other person is perceiving.

110

If there's a misalignment, then

you're not communicating effectively.

111

this is a point because I've often gotten

questions like, oh, is it really my fault?

112

I've sent an email.

113

I was very specific.

114

I was very clear, but the person did

not read the email It's not my fault.

115

I wrote as clearly as I could have.

116

communication is something

that should get you a result

117

or bring you closer to a goal.

118

John: So let me, ask you this though,

'cause communication can easily be

119

misunderstood I ascribe to the principle

that the meaning of communication is

120

what gets understood, not necessarily

what is meant to be conveyed.

121

How could you perhaps pick up, or what

would you encourage people to look at,

122

to pick up whether their communication is

being understood in the right way or not?

123

Lucille Ossai: Okay, so is the

person acting in the expected way?

124

For example, if you send me an email

and just say, I would appreciate this

125

project being done by two Pierre.

126

Thanks a lot.

127

And best regards, And then you go, you

haven't given me any call to action.

128

You're just mentioning

what you would like.

129

So I could read it.

130

I was like, Hmm, okay, I'm on track.

131

I'm sure it's gonna be completed,

but I don't feel that I need

132

to communicate that to you.

133

So I might not even respond.

134

I just think, oh, I'm working on it.

135

I'm sure it's gonna be completed and,

and I'm working at it on my desk.

136

Meanwhile, you are expecting some

sort of feedback from me to let you

137

know that I'm on the right track.

138

if you send the email, like, you

know, Lucille I really appreciate it.

139

If you could send me an update on the

project by 4:00 PM then I will say that

140

okay, he wants me to comment on it.

141

he's not just asking how it's going.

142

He wants me to comment on it.

143

be specific because a lot of people

are inundated with information,

144

sure that your emails are short.

145

I cannot stress this enough.

146

get to the point and make sure there's

short in shorter sentences with spaces

147

in between so that there is no confusion.

148

This is one of the ways that we could

make sure that our communication is clear.

149

John: Yeah.

150

And I particularly like that

advice because that's how I

151

tend to do my emails anyway.

152

Lucille Ossai: Oh yeah, I

know that's quite brief.

153

John: It's my natural style Lucille,

I'm one of those people that has to go

154

back and add in the niceties afterwards

because I tend to just be like straight

155

down to it, here's what I want.

156

Right.

157

here's what I want you to do.

158

All right.

159

So, one of the things I'm getting

from that as well, clear, concise,

160

short, let's have it as, crystal clear

as possible and be very clear about

161

what we want the other person to do

162

Lucille Ossai: Absolutely.

163

put that all in a simple framework.

164

Call it the three rules of

effective communication.

165

the first rule is know your audience.

166

that is the number one rule for

communication in general, because the

167

way you communicate with me will probably

differ from the way you communicate

168

with your peers people close to you,

or people from different regions.

169

you touched on the niceties, so

there's the cultural norms you

170

have to be aware of as well.

171

sometimes there appears to be unexpected

and unintended tension, because cultural

172

norms are not addressed or considered

in communication, in writing and in

173

one-on-one, interpersonal communication.

174

it's really important that we all take

a moment to know just a little bit

175

more information who are audiences.

176

So that's rule number one.

177

Then rule number two, is in three parts.

178

I say use the three beacons and I call

them beacons because they light the way.

179

They the way your communication should go.

180

So ask yourself, is my

communication simple?

181

Can a 12-year-old understand it?

182

It doesn't really matter what

the topic is, but can they

183

grasp what I'm trying to say?

184

Then we touched on the second beacon.

185

Is it brief or concise?

186

Does it get straight to the point?

187

Essential in this age of distraction and

different, things vying for attention.

188

And the third one is, is it clear?

189

Now, clarity is often mistaken for

simplicity, but I added, an extra point.

190

And that is for your communication to be

clear, there needs to be a call to action,

191

basically what we just talked about.

192

So what do you want the recipients

or the audience to know, to feel

193

or to do, know, feel, do premise.

194

Yeah.

195

And if you are able to do that for

ensuring the three beacons are addressed

196

in some way, your communications already.

197

Above average.

198

So that's rule number two.

199

Then rule number three is feedback.

200

This is critical.

201

This is the difference between

somebody perceiving you as professional

202

and trustworthy and somebody just

thinking that you know, you know what?

203

This person is just someone

I do not want to deal with.

204

And for your feedback to be effective, it

has to be timely and it has to be factual.

205

And you see, I came up with these three

rules out of frustration basically.

206

I just noticed over the years,

different issues kept on cropping up.

207

And I've just said, wouldn't it be

nice to just pull all these things

208

together and just come up with some

sort of framework, a simple framework.

209

Everybody knows these elements, but just

put it in a nice package with a bow and

210

just say, these are the three rules.

211

Please just ensure you.

212

Address these rules when

you're communicating.

213

Rule number one, know your audience.

214

Rule number two, keep your

communication simple, brief, and clear.

215

rule number three, give feedback

and ask for feedback and show your

216

feedback is timely and factual.

217

If you're able to do these things,

you would automatically be seen

218

as somebody who is credible,

professional, and somebody that

219

people would want to collaborate with.

220

John: I love that you're saying these

are all very, easy to apply things

221

There's nothing particularly

complicated about what you're saying.

222

I think we could all do this, and just

in doing these things, you are already

223

going to have elevated your ability to

communicate above the average, which

224

doesn't say a lot about average levels of

communication, unfortunately, but it does

225

say, rising above that isn't so difficult.

226

even just some of these things

will take you to more noticeable,

227

more influential communication.

228

More effective as well.

229

Absolutely.

230

I love that.

231

And you lay that out really clearly, it's

a nice framework to work with as well.

232

we'll have some show notes for

people to summarize some of

233

this, to review it as well.

234

But what does influence mean to you, and

why is it important for communication?

235

Lucille Ossai: What I've noticed

about influence is that you

236

don't need to be a big name.

237

with all respect to the masters of

Influence, the Kini Kini and so on

238

who have written and made it to be

a science PAC technique, I believe.

239

And this is the beauty of improving

your communication skills, working

240

on your communication skills.

241

I believe that it is easy

for you to influence people.

242

If you are able to communicate

persuasively and intentionally.

243

And it doesn't really

matter if you have access.

244

This is something I've learned as well.

245

It doesn't matter if you have access

to the inner circles of big brands

246

or big names, but if you communicate

consistently, people begin to take notice.

247

And as time goes on, you

begin to hone those skills.

248

So if you're speaking up in,

a team meeting, for example,

249

and you are a bit introverted.

250

I use this example all the time because

that's how I am you have a brilliant

251

idea, but you think, oh, well I'm not

really an executive, I'm a new entrant

252

or a low level staff But you are able

to, raise your hand and say what you

253

consider important or give a suggestion

254

And you stand up, project your voice and

say that, I have heard a lot of brilliant,

255

brilliant recommendation, but I would

like us all to just consider one point,

256

this is what I think will move it forward.

257

You could be speaking for 30

seconds, but you've made your point.

258

People would take notice.

259

They begin to say, oh, you know,

who's that lady over there?

260

where is he from?

261

What department is in makes sense.

262

It's just about knowing how to present

your ideas in a very clear, compelling

263

manner that helps to create influence.

264

Yeah.

265

And the influence could start small.

266

It could be like, invite that person

to a meeting, or, what are your ideas?

267

Or do you mind giving a presentation

before you know it, you are called into

268

those circles that you would otherwise

not have had access to, just by the

269

strength of your communication skills.

270

Because what you said, maybe somebody

else had the same idea but did not

271

communicate it as effectively or

as persuasively as, and this is

272

something that I really hope does.

273

if you commit to it, the results

will actually shock you, and

274

it can become really scary.

275

So ask yourself, how far do I want to go?

276

If you're ambitious I would

order those to be open to me,

277

then that's going to happen.

278

But if not, then you have to decide,

how much do I want to speak up?

279

How many times do I

want to send that email?

280

Your colleagues will begin to

ask your advice and send you

281

information then your growth really

depends on how far you want to go.

282

influence is you being able to

communicate your ideas in a way that

283

will give you greater visibility,

will help you collaborate with others.

284

We get you the desired results and

communication is one of those things

285

you can use to increase your influence.

286

John: Absolutely.

287

This is bring up a few things in me and

one of them is that I'm aware and I've

288

been guilty of this myself, but I've

certainly seen it in many people my dad

289

is actually a prime example of this.

290

Many people think that their work

should speak for itself rather

291

than them speak for themselves.

292

You get that?

293

Generally it doesn't people think,

oh, they don't really speak up,

294

they don't really hear from them.

295

They just keep their head down.

296

They're probably quite happy.

297

maybe they don't care about wanting

leadership positions they're just

298

doing lots and lots of work and

we'll leave them doing that whereas

299

speaking up might actually make

a bigger impact as you suggest.

300

my experience in business has been,

sometimes the people who speak up are

301

speaking up for the sake of speaking up.

302

And sometimes the people who speak

up do actually have something say,

303

do you think we should just speak?

304

You know that speaking up, no matter

what Or should we also be sure that

305

we have something of value to say,

306

Lucille Ossai: I think it's really

important you have something of value.

307

Otherwise don't really say anything.

308

I've coached people in the

past who have had that concern.

309

You know, quieter females, the female

professionals and they're terrified.

310

They had brilliant ideas,

but they were terrified.

311

And I said, okay, here's the thing.

312

You are ambitious.

313

You want to be taken seriously.

314

You want to go to the next

level, you have to speak up, or

315

here's what I want you to do.

316

Start small.

317

That is a point.

318

And I got this fantastic method

from, communications per Joel.

319

Schwartzberg, who I'm connected

with on LinkedIn and who wrote this

320

brilliant book, get to the point.

321

just having a clear point and

knowing how to communicate that

322

point in any section is immediately

going to make people take notice.

323

So you can imagine just having a series

of points in a series of meetings, and

324

from time to time just speak up and just

having the confidence even if your voice

325

shakes, because your voice will shake

if you're not accustomed to speaking.

326

And you could experience all

those, symptoms, dry mouth, racing

327

heart and so on and so forth.

328

But don't let those physiological

reactions get in the way

329

of making a clear point.

330

if you've been holding onto that

point and you're just waiting for the

331

right time to give that point in a

meeting, and then somebody else says

332

the exact thing you wanted to say.

333

Don't panic.

334

just don't repeat what you've just heard.

335

You could put a new spin on it or

say, John had that breathing point I

336

would just like to add something to

what he just said, or give an example

337

of why John's point is important.

338

if nothing else comes to mind, do a recap.

339

at the end of the meeting, say,

John has said something, IL has

340

said, why John has said that.

341

can we all agree on the right way forward?

342

when is our next meeting?

343

do we all decide on emailing suggestions

at a certain time, just say something.

344

So that's one way you can

train yourself to do it.

345

if that is still daunting, or you

feel you're already a good speaker,

346

but not as good a writer, now is the

time to hone your writing skills.

347

start small, adhere to the rules of

effective communication I mentioned.

348

So if I'm saying there are three things

I wanted to mention, and I mentioned

349

one, and I mentioned two, and I can't

remember the third, the third thing

350

is just to stress that the first

two things are important, and this

351

leads me to the next point I want to

make about why we should continue.

352

Most people wouldn't

mind you taking a pause.

353

a pause of just a few seconds to

connect your thoughts, but it'll become

354

really obvious if you start to stare

at the ceiling, I've seen this happen.

355

people will be like,

356

What was I about to say?

357

Well, it all becomes obvious, but

if you take a pause and just said,

358

and sometimes when I'm in a session.

359

I actually even invite the audience.

360

So I'm saying something and there's a

particular word, like, bear with me.

361

There's this word and I describe the word.

362

I get everybody involved, and

they're like, oh yeah, you mean that?

363

I'm like, that's the one.

364

And then we continue.

365

So I think people are really

gracious and they would understand

366

that these things happen.

367

But what you don't want is to go blank,

and then you don't know how to recover.

368

And then you are there standing

for two painful minutes trying to

369

remember the point you're about

to make and it doesn't come.

370

And that actually

diminishes your credibility.

371

So take a breather, pause, say the

next thing, and just try to make sure

372

that you link the next point with what

you've just said, even if it's not

373

the original point you wanted to say.

374

And this should practice.

375

John: Yeah.

376

I would add to that as well, but if

your communication hasn't gone well,

377

whether it is a question a meeting

or a presentation or anything like

378

that, there's still a win there.

379

The fact that you got up and did it,

the fact that you put yourself forward.

380

don't diminish the win that you had.

381

Maybe it wasn't great,

maybe you didn't get it.

382

We want things to go better than they do.

383

But you would be diminishing the win that

you had, that put yourself out there and

384

sometimes when we put ourselves out there,

we get shot down or it doesn't go well.

385

That's part Of the process

part of the learning journey.

386

You see it as that the next time you do

it, it will be better, but don't think

387

that because it didn't go well that

time that you shouldn't do it again.

388

I think that would be the worst

thing you could take away.

389

Right.

390

Lucille Ossai: And I have a really

important something just came to mind.

391

every year at the Lagos Business School,

we have an annual speaking competition.

392

It's called a Mini Keeps

Keeping Competition.

393

the MBA students from the cohorts,

compete and sometimes we have it in

394

collaboration with other business

schools in Africa and beyond.

395

last year.

396

sometimes the MBAs, they, they

divide them into groups and they

397

give them an industry to work on.

398

So they are not, they're really smart

people, these MBAs, the Sharper Nails.

399

So it could be of the oil and

gas industry, it could be on

400

the banking industry and so on

401

So, I remember this group, I can't

remember the industry, but there was a

402

lady, an MBA student that was so nervous.

403

she was presenting with her colleagues.

404

I think she was the second person.

405

there were about three of them.

406

And you could hear her voice shaking

and she stumbled and stuff like that.

407

And I just kept on staying in my mind.

408

'cause I was in the audience.

409

I had coached some of them.

410

So I kept on saying, just stick with it.

411

I was really rooting for it just.

412

Just finish, stick with it and everything.

413

She managed to finish her bit,

stumbled across her words.

414

The audience applauded and

people kept on saying that.

415

Even in the audience, I could

hear people saying, oh gosh, she

416

was so nervous, but well done.

417

She was fantastic.

418

after the presentation I spoke

to the lady and she said, gosh,

419

like that was really terrible.

420

I said, no, but well done.

421

You finished and you were still

able to get your point across.

422

It can only get better.

423

what really impressed me were people

in the audience who didn't know.

424

they were applauding and I could

hear them saying, oh gosh, that

425

must have been really difficult.

426

what I took away from that experience

is that the audience is on your side.

427

the audience the majority of them, are

on your side and they're rooting for you.

428

So no matter how bad

an experience you have.

429

stick to it to the bitter end.

430

Learn from it.

431

people realize how daunting

it is to get up to speak.

432

Everybody has that fear.

433

professionals have all their routines

and they have processes that help

434

them to deal with the nerves, but

like you said, putting yourself

435

out there would really help.

436

And the more you do so, it may not

really go away, but the easier it gets.

437

John: I like myself.

438

I'm a more natural introvert, and

there are so many people who don't

439

believe that because I do all

the podcasting and speaking, I do

440

stand up comedy and all this stuff.

441

my tendency is I like quiet time.

442

I like to have time by myself and

I don't get particularly energized.

443

I like being in big groups now and

again, but I have to limit it, I think

444

I've moved myself more to being ambi.

445

I'm somewhere more in the middle

with a tendency towards introversion.

446

I think many people are.

447

the reality is the more we do stuff,

the more we put ourselves out there.

448

People understand how hard this

stuff is for the most part.

449

And they will applaud because most of

them can't imagine themselves doing that.

450

So they do see, alright,

you've done something that I

451

don't think I could ever do.

452

that's worthy of applause.

453

It's not like, a New York

comedy club where you're gonna

454

get booed off the stage Right.

455

Exactly.

456

this is very different.

457

People.

458

will support it.

459

the worst critic we're ever

gonna get is inside our heads.

460

we will always be around that.

461

Lucille Ossai: We are so self-critical

that we think worse of our

462

performance than we actually were.

463

John: Absolutely.

464

Lucille Ossai: And some of the things

you think people would've noticed,

465

they're like, no, I didn't notice that.

466

I just noticed, you know,

you're a bit, but no, I didn't.

467

And you're like, you really,

didn't notice X, Y, Z.

468

John: find I, I doing this things stand

comedy, I'll get up and do a routine.

469

it'll be like five, 10 minutes on

stage, whatever, when I go off stage.

470

You know, people have laugh people,

but a few minutes later people have

471

mostly forgotten what it is all about.

472

They're not, they're not

thinking about that anymore.

473

They're watching the next act, or they're

enjoying the drinking each other, friends.

474

Whereas me, I'm thinking about it for

hours afterwards or that Joe didn't go as

475

well as I thought, or I could have landed,

or maybe I should have tried it this way.

476

And, you know, the, I'm, I'm,

I'm the one who's gonna obsess

477

over it and criticize myself.

478

Yeah.

479

We all, we all do it.

480

And, and it's, it's natural.

481

We shouldn't punish

ourselves but just be aware.

482

You are probably perceived much

more highly than by others than

483

you are doing for yourself.

484

'cause I think some of us feel that

the external voices are gonna be

485

negative as well, and they really are.

486

You talk about something that

I don't see a lot of actually,

487

and, I think it's important.

488

I don't see a lot of people talking about.

489

Writing skills when it comes to

effective communication, but you do.

490

So I'd love to hear about

why you focus on that.

491

And you've already mentioned

a little bit about how we can

492

improve, our email writing skills.

493

why is this so important and what are

the things that you recommend people

494

do to improve their writing skills?

495

Lucille Ossai: Okay, so writing

business, writing, to me, I think

496

my skills in business writing

were what I was known for.

497

And it's really funny because in my

first job I went outta university.

498

I worked at a foreign embassy

in the business section and I

499

had to do a lot of templates.

500

I had to write a lot of reports and

so on and it's just something that

501

I worked on and it became easier.

502

I didn't do a lot of speaking,

but I did a lot of writing.

503

So when I landed the job at Legal

Business School, I think This year will

504

make it As the communications code.

505

I had done some training here and there,

but I never really tackled the writing

506

and it was like a baptism by fire.

507

I scaled through the interview process

where I had to do the presentation.

508

That was fine.

509

And in my first session, I would always

remember this in my first session.

510

Yeah.

511

My mentor, yeah.

512

Person I was reporting to told me,

oh, you know, you're just going to

513

facilitate a session with the MBAs.

514

I was like, okay, no problem.

515

I walk into the class and it's packed.

516

This was long before COVID, it was packed.

517

So I went there and he told

me, oh no, I'll be in the room.

518

You know, I'll be at

the back, have no fear.

519

If you have any problems,

I'll come and help you out.

520

So I was like, okay, he's at the back.

521

I could see him, But then I noticed

midway he just left the room and

522

I was really, really nervous.

523

I had prepared and everything.

524

I started to talk and I started

to write and I went back to him

525

afterwards and I accused him, I

was like, oh, you abandoned me.

526

He said, look, you are a communications

coach, not just a business writing coach.

527

And that's why I started to

build the skills origin model.

528

what I say is that because of the

competition in the business world,

529

everybody at some point would speak,

but a lot of people don't write.

530

And it's really, really strict.

531

But we know, we write emails

every day apart from emails.

532

Many people don't really

focus on the writing.

533

if you are working in a, in the

back, in the back, I think they call

534

it the backend or the back office.

535

Your, your technical or your accountant

or your lawyer or, or something like that.

536

You find that unless you make a serious

effort to improve your writing skills,

537

you would end up not really writing.

538

It's just one of those skills you

think, oh, I can do it until you

539

have to start doing it consistently.

540

this is what I have experienced,

especially with the executive MBAs.

541

These are people that are

super sharp, very intelligent

542

But when it comes down to the writing, I

get comments like, oh gosh, the last time

543

I had to really write essays or articles

as when I was in university or when I

544

was in secondary school, over time people

just concentrated on their technical

545

skills and did less and less writing.

546

Not that they couldn't write, but they

were not put in positions where they had

547

to write consistently and persuasively.

548

So that became a trend that I noticed.

549

And then I found out also that a lot

of people don't read, and there's

550

a correlation between reading well,

written material, and your writing.

551

According to science, the more

you read and expose yourself to

552

it, the better you get at writing.

553

what I've noticed personally is that

when you read well-written materials,

554

you begin to notice structures.

555

You begin to notice grammar.

556

The way grammar is used and manipulated

and broken, and still used in

557

persuasive ways, you begin to notice

expressions, and then all these things

558

end up seeping into your writing over

time, making you a better writer.

559

even before I landed the job at

the Lagos Business School, already

560

blogging for about six or eight

years, and I was blogging every month

561

even before I got formally employed

562

And I noticed the difference in my skill.

563

It became sharp.

564

I became more confident and all that.

565

What I tell people is that.

566

If you want to get the attention

of important people you may not

567

even get the opportunity to speak.

568

But write, they would notice

very good writing because so few

569

people write well, It's amazing.

570

that is the one way you can differentiate

yourself and the more you do it,

571

the better you get it starts small.

572

Yeah, but don't just rely on emails.

573

You can start a blog.

574

I tell everybody start a blog.

575

And they're like, yeah, really?

576

I say, yeah, started

block it doesn't matter.

577

nobody reads it.

578

just choose a topic you are

passionate about and choose

579

a schedule and stick to it.

580

So you could decide to block once a month.

581

That is fine.

582

You could decide, to do it twice a week.

583

That is fine.

584

But block, consistently and write.

585

To the best of your ability.

586

write as though, the New York Times,

for example, or a reputable magazine

587

would pay you to publish your article.

588

So that's the thing.

589

that's the point I stress.

590

I said don't just write, because if you're

just writing and you're not challenging

591

yourself, then you're not improving.

592

But write intentionally, check your

grammar, check the structure and all that.

593

And just do that consistently.

594

You would see an improvement

and that will help you.

595

John: I personally feel it is funny that

I hadn't really thought about it that

596

much until this conversation, but for me

writing is something that has helped me,

597

not just to discover my writing voice, but

to discover my voice as a speaker as well.

598

Yes, to help me figure out.

599

my own opinions, my own decisions.

600

Very often we spend so much time

being told what to think these days.

601

And given opinions, that we rarely spend

much time developing our own we can just

602

cherry pick from the ones around us.

603

Whereas when you actually start working

on your own thoughts and feelings and

604

opinions about things, you really do

start to find your own voice, your

605

own style of writing and expression.

606

And that is such a critical thing.

607

I haven't focused on it

that much before, but I can

608

completely understand why you do.

609

Yeah.

610

it is probably an element that I

might well even look at bringing

611

into my own programs because of

understanding how important that is.

612

here's my question for you.

613

I guess we both understand, the value

of finding your own voice, but for

614

those people who maybe sort of thinking,

well, I could just get on chat GPT

615

and get that to do it all for me.

616

Yes.

617

Lucille Ossai: Yep.

618

John: What would you say

to encourage them to this.

619

Lucille Ossai: this is

a fantastic question.

620

Especially now that business schools

around the world have come to realize

621

that they have to prepare the graduates

and participants for a world where

622

they can use TGP or any other AI

623

But here's my thing, and this

is the same advice I give to

624

people when I say read books and

don't just listen to audio books.

625

Because when you read, you

begin to notice constructions.

626

You begin to notice all those pink

can covering, and I say, please learn

627

how to write and focus on writing and

improving your own writing skills to

628

the point that it becomes easier for

you to break rules and to know how to

629

use church, GTP to enhance writing.

630

If you do it the other way round, you

will never, hone your writing skills.

631

And be confused about the kind

of tone or voice or persona you

632

want to present to the world.

633

So it's a little bit like grammar.

634

Know the rules of grammar.

635

They know when you know how to break them.

636

but you have to know the rules because

there are some grammatical rules that

637

you cannot break as a professional.

638

For example.

639

and we're talking about business writing.

640

Your name has to be capitalized.

641

That's a grammatical rule.

642

Rule is a proper, now

it must be capitalized.

643

That is one rule you should not break.

644

So take time to build your writing

skills and how do you do that?

645

there are really only two ways

to become a better writer.

646

two simple ways.

647

when I tell them that,

they're like, really?

648

I like, yeah, really read

well written material.

649

This is critical.

650

read novels.

651

Read articles.

652

Read opinion pieces.

653

Just make sure they are written

well and you have a whole selection.

654

read and then write.

655

That's it.

656

Read well-written material.

657

Read beyond your field.

658

So I'm a communication person.

659

If I only read about communication

then I'm limiting myself.

660

But if I read extensively, then I

begin to notice different things.

661

Not only will I become more knowledgeable,

but I begin to notice different styles.

662

when I'm writing, you

know, it just, I just pull.

663

Yeah.

664

And this is something you

do without realizing it.

665

it all seeps into your mind and

translates into your writing.

666

John: Yeah.

667

Lucille Ossai: some expressions I used.

668

I know for a fact that maybe two, three

years ago, I never used those expressions.

669

How I came to start using them.

670

I do not know, but I know it is

somewhere, somehow some material I've

671

come across the way, something I've read

or something other people used and I

672

thought, Hmm, I like that expression.

673

And then put my own twist

on it and basically, yeah,

674

assimilated it into my writing.

675

John: it's inevitable

that we will assimilate.

676

And I think that's all good.

677

Good advice.

678

The quality reading, not just

audio books, but actual reading.

679

Great advice and doing the

practical writing skills.

680

these are all like the Renaissance

person skills, you know, the stuff that

681

really does make you potentially stand

out is that, well, if you wanna blend it

682

with everyone else, do it the lazy way.

683

let AI do it all for you

684

But if you actually want to say

something worth saying and have your own.

685

Takes on things and be able to write

really well and communicate really well.

686

it's gonna take doing it the hard way.

687

Lucille Ossai: it's no

688

John: People don't like to hear this, but

689

Lucille Ossai: yeah.

690

John: The thing is, it's worth doing that.

691

That's the reality of it.

692

It will never get you To the top levels.

693

Lucille Ossai: Absolutely.

694

Writing has for me, yeah.

695

People have been able to

reach through my writing.

696

I've been able to challenge, some high

authorities and all that, and not because

697

I, not because influencer or anybody,

but just because I was able to craft

698

and writing well will get you notice.

699

You might not get the desired results,

but you would definitely get a response.

700

I tell anybody if everything else fails

and you need to make a point, or you

701

need to open some doors, or you need

something to move, then you should write.

702

I've written to different organizations.

703

I've written to different people.

704

when I was writing my Facebook, I

said, okay, I'm be really ambitious.

705

Who am I going to contact

to invite to interview?

706

And I thought, who do I really admire?

707

some other people admired some decline.

708

Some said, okay, you know, COVID

we're just getting into COVID and

709

everything, and, they couldn't And I

said, no, the Obamas to me, I think

710

Michelle Obama, Barack Obama, they

are among my top 10 communicators So I

711

said, you know what, I'm gonna write.

712

So I wrote, I wrote to the O banners,

I wrote to Michelle oban, wrote,

713

you know, had my whole story on

my pitch, Of course, she declined,

714

or her press people declined.

715

But you know what?

716

I saved that note.

717

from time to time I look at it

718

The fact that they even responded to

me was modern enough and it wasn't

719

a one-liner, it was a considerate,

somebody took time to respond.

720

I was like, hmm, I would like to

think that not everybody who writes

721

would get that kind of response.

722

to me That was just an example.

723

And I usually say sometimes at the end

of the writing program, once you know

724

the rules and commit to the discipline

of writing, there is nobody on the

725

planet you would not be able to write to.

726

And I mean that sincerely, you

know, you'll get to that point.

727

Whereby like, okay, oh, they

say right to Donald Trump.

728

You are like, Hmm, okay.

729

Donald Trump.

730

Okay.

731

You analyze him do your research.

732

But yeah.

733

who never knows, you know, the first

rule of communication, know your orders.

734

You know what is

important to Donald Trump.

735

If you know what's important to him,

there's a way you're gonna craft that

736

note and you would get a response.

737

I'm glad you brought up, the point

of about writing, and why my book, I

738

tackled different communication themes.

739

I did the nonverbal, I did the business

writing, I did the public speaking.

740

But out of the three, if you commit to

writing well it takes a lot of work.

741

I've been doing it for over 20 years

from my first job I became really steeped

742

in it when I started my blog, and I've

been doing my blog now for 13 years.

743

From, oh, I can't do the math

right now, but I started in 20

744

John: Yeah,

745

Lucille Ossai: Every month.

746

personally, it's a struggle sometimes.

747

I'm like, my God, it's

the end of the month.

748

I've written on the last day at

2 59, I've posted my blog first.

749

I did not want to miss that.

750

John: I respect that level of commitment.

751

I really do.

752

Yeah.

753

I, I, I also like, as well that

yeah, what, what you said really

754

demonstrates that even, even, uh,

someone declining an invite or Yeah.

755

Which many people, that is a rejection.

756

Yeah.

757

When it's done, when it's not

just done generically, when

758

is that a considered response?

759

Lucille Ossai: Yes.

760

John: That is it, it's

still valuable to you.

761

Lucille Ossai: Absolutely.

762

John: Uh, and, and potentially even shows.

763

Okay, well, it might be worth.

764

Taking some of that and

trying again later on or so?

765

Yep.

766

Absolutely.

767

Absolutely.

768

Stuff like that stays with you.

769

I, I had a, a, a, uh, an application

with saying last year that I got rejected

770

for, but the response was so considered,

I actually felt really good about it.

771

It's like, all right, I understood exactly

why I didn't get it and, and what no.

772

Gave me some things to work on.

773

I thought that was really valuable.

774

One thing I do want to make sure

we get to, if it's okay, but with

775

the, before we wrap up this Yes.

776

Very, very interesting conversation.

777

I'd love to hear a little bit about

how you are helping to prepare the next

778

generation of business leaders at the

Lagos Business School and what you see,

779

like what, what inspires you or gives

you hope for the future for them at them.

780

Lucille Ossai: Okay, so that's a

fantastic question and um, more and

781

more we are getting requests and

leadership development and communication.

782

And I think in addition to all the

skills that the leaders have, I think

783

it's critical that they take their

communication skills seriously and

784

that they, they either do some training

or they just get better acquaintance.

785

'cause their ability for them to

be able to communicate well will

786

translate into business results.

787

I have some, I have a, a very good,

I think, research findings and I can

788

remember, so when I was writing my

book, I came across this research

789

by the kechum Kechum Leadership

Communication Monitor Group.

790

Yeah.

791

And they did some research in

792

So they analyzed the perceptions

of 6,500 people across 13 countries

793

on the link between effective

communication and great leadership.

794

And they came up with different,

um, different points, but

795

two to caught my attention.

796

So the first they realized

that open communication was

797

important to effective leadership.

798

Communication was ranked

the top attribute.

799

Um, at that time, 74% believing

that open communication was

800

essential to great leadership.

801

74.

802

So that's significant.

803

Meanwhile, I think I have it here,

29% felt that the leaders were

804

not communicating effectively.

805

Yeah.

806

So there was like a 45, 45 points gap

between the expectation and delivery.

807

To me, that was, wow.

808

That was really, really important.

809

Another really important point that

they, they, they uncovered was that, um,

810

leadership communication directly impacted

the bottom line leadership communication.

811

Yeah.

812

With 61% of the people surveyed,

boycotting the company's, uh, products

813

and all that because of poor leadership.

814

It's to also communicate

here to internally.

815

They have to see the communication.

816

They have to feel that

the communication is open.

817

And then your, your actions has to have

to match your, yeah, whatever you say.

818

Yeah.

819

So your, your actions

have to be consistent.

820

And of course, by the time you begin

to work on your communications,

821

'cause you begin to hold emotional

intelligence, you begin to know how to

822

address some things, how to deal with

opposition, how to regulate your own

823

emotions as well, to be able to put

the best foot forward so you wouldn't

824

have the knee jack reaction reactions.

825

You have the C CEOs waking up one

day and just saying, you know what?

826

Come to work every day.

827

Otherwise 60% of you are fired.

828

Or, uh, so something

along, along those lines.

829

Yeah.

830

After all these things end up

influencing attitudes and behaviors in

831

your organization and also influences

the perceptions people outside

832

your organization have all of you.

833

So I think that, I think this,

that research was mind blowing, chu

834

in case you are interested in it.

835

So I remember, of course, it's similar

to catch up, so it's not catch up.

836

Yeah, it's, yeah.

837

Yeah, that

838

John: would help me as well.

839

I do, yeah.

840

Lucille Ossai: That's how I,

that's how I remembered it.

841

So it's catchum Leadership

communication monitor group.

842

So the 2014

843

John: worth checking out.

844

Yeah, that's checking out.

845

Lucille Ossai: Fantastic.

846

Fantastic.

847

John: It's,

848

Lucille Ossai: yeah.

849

Thought that it was the

top ranking attributes.

850

John: So this is good that you're,

you are, you are making sure that, um,

851

the, the young business leaders coming

through the Legos business School right

852

now are, uh, equipped for this and

ready this before they even hit the.

853

Yes.

854

Working well or in, uh, well, I assume

many of them are just getting started.

855

Some of them may be doing their

business degrees a bit later on.

856

But from what you've seen and from

your experience of working with these

857

people, what, what are your feelings

about the, the future of business

858

leadership that, that's coming up now?

859

Lucille Ossai: I think

I'm very optimistic.

860

We're getting, I think Nigeria, we

have a very vibrant young population.

861

Yeah, I think we are over, we're over

200 million, but we have a significant

862

percentage of the population being young.

863

And these youngsters, they are brilliant.

864

They're coming up with different

innovations, with different stick.

865

So I go into those sessions, not just

with the executives, well, the young ones.

866

Not just thinking, oh, I'm just

going to Lord over, you know, just

867

going to tell them that this is it.

868

I'm the expert.

869

I go in.

870

Also learn it because

they will challenge you.

871

They'll ask you, no, but what about this?

872

What about this?

873

Or shouldn't you consider?

874

And that's what I end up learning.

875

I end up learning as well, you know,

so I'm very optimistic about them.

876

I do, I do worry that sometimes if

they leave the, the, the environment,

877

the business school environment, that

they may be too busy to take their

878

communication skills seriously until

such a time whereby they are compelled

879

to do so, and by that time it's too late.

880

So what I hope to be able to, um,

inspire them to do is to start, well,

881

to start well in the business school

and to just keep with it, you know,

882

to keep up the momentum and not to

not to get tired, and not to drop off

883

the, because by the time they leave,

you know, they're not, we're not gonna

884

be grading their writing anymore.

885

We're not gonna be grading their writing,

we're not gonna be grading their speaking.

886

But these are skills that they

would need at the workplace.

887

So it is my hope, and it is my mission

as well, that, um, I basically.

888

Plant the seed.

889

Yeah.

890

The seed of discipline.

891

I think that's the best way to put

it, to plant the seed of discipline,

892

communication, advancements and training.

893

And, uh, just holding their

communication skills so that

894

they can continue the journey.

895

It's a never ending journey.

896

I tell them all the time.

897

I said, despite being in the field for,

for a number of years, I constantly read,

898

I, I'm always interested in new insight.

899

AI came up just I think three years ago.

900

Yeah.

901

Before that we didn't have ai.

902

And AI is disrupting a lot of things,

you know, and it's something that we,

903

professionals and communication trainers

and facilitators, we, there's something

904

we should also take note of, you know, so

I'm using ai, but there are some things.

905

I don't use ai, I refuse to use ai, do,

you know, for my articles, whatever.

906

But the other day I, I copied and pasted,

um, an entire article into Claude.

907

Yeah.

908

And I just said, just do this into,

uh, you know, I dunno, into a LinkedIn.

909

For LinkedIn infographic, and he did all

the coding and I was just fascinated.

910

It was just call it, call

it, call it, call it coding.

911

And I said, show me the visual.

912

And he show me something beautiful.

913

I said, no, take this out, do this.

914

And I just sat back

and it just did it all.

915

John: Save a lot of time.

916

Yeah.

917

That's what it should be doing.

918

Yeah.

919

Lucille Ossai: That's

what should be doing.

920

John: Should be making life easier for

us, but not replacing replacing it.

921

Lucille Ossai: That's a fine line.

922

There's

923

John: a fine line.

924

Yeah.

925

My, my, my biggest fear, well I maybe

it should be big, maybe bigger business,

926

but one of my fears with a AI is that

it's, uh, and, and could end up being

927

the death of creativity for people.

928

Lucille Ossai: Yes.

929

Yeah.

930

John: If, uh, because AI has been scraping

other people's creativity and mm-hmm.

931

Using that and sharing out to us all and

democratizing creativity, but mm-hmm.

932

If it takes away the need

for creatives mm-hmm.

933

Um, we're not gonna get new creativity.

934

There's not, we're gonna be

stuck in a rut of creativity.

935

Uh, yes.

936

That's one of the, I worry the

things, one of the things coming.

937

Lucille Ossai: Yes.

938

I worry that eventually there'll

be a lot of books written by ai.

939

It's already happening.

940

Yeah, it's already happening, but

then there would still be a demand.

941

In fact, there'll be identity, there'll

be more of a demand for that human

942

touch and that human and flawed out.

943

John: I hope that's the

way it goes, Lizzie.

944

I really do.

945

Uh, I know, we know, we know your

book wasn't written by ai, uh, and

946

you have, uh, uh, an influence of

s it covers a lot of the things

947

we've talked about today and more.

948

Um, tell us a little bit about how

people can, um, get hold of the book

949

or get in, uh, get in contact with

you if they want to find out more.

950

Lucille Ossai: Okay.

951

So I'm on LinkedIn

basically every other day.

952

Yeah.

953

But, um, they could also send me an

email, so lucille@lucilleside.com,

954

visit my website, ton of information

with a link to my blog that has a lot

955

of articles, you know, free articles and

on different aspects of communication.

956

So that would be good.

957

My book is available, Amazon Waterstone,

basically multiple retailers,

958

libraries in about six continents.

959

And this is what it looks like.

960

John: Awesome.

961

Well, there, there will

be links for all of these.

962

Well, everything for everything you

mentioned, links in the show notes

963

linked in the YouTube description.

964

So go and take a look there and

just click on one of those links

965

and decide which one you want.

966

Whether, whether it's reach out

on LinkedIn, whether check out

967

the website or shoot an email.

968

Lucille Ossai: Yeah,

969

John: pick one and or

970

Lucille Ossai: connect with me.

971

Re I'm always happy to learn about, you

know, the greatest emails or the most

972

valuable emails to me are people that

know, okay, I maybe read your blog or I

973

attended your whatever training, or I went

on your blog and I took something away and

974

I implemented it and this is the result.

975

I think that, that, that is,

that is, but that's what's,

976

John: and if you can send

an email, get to the point.

977

Right.

978

Lucille Ossai: I'll send the, I would read

it, trust that I would read it, but it

979

does sound people sue, get to the point.

980

Yeah.

981

John: Lucille, it's been an absolute

delight to have you on the show and

982

you shared so much good information.

983

You've given me some things

to think about as well.

984

Thank you for coming and sharing

your expertise with us today.

985

Lucille Ossai: Thank you for having me.

986

John: Here's the truth, then

your voice is your power.

987

Lucille reminded us that influence isn't

reserved for executives or extroverts,

988

it's built by anyone willing to show up,

speak clearly, and write with purpose.

989

So don't wait to be noticed.

990

Decide today to communicate with

clarity, courage, and consistency.

991

And if this episode gave you something

to think about, maybe share it with

992

someone who needs to hear this.

993

And make sure you hit subscribe so

you never miss these conversations.

994

Because the world doesn't

change when you stay quiet.

995

It changes when you speak up.

996

See you next time.