If you are designing a shower it can be so easy to forget the drain. Is it going to match the hardware on the shower valve and shower door? Is it going to make a statement or just be a boring circle in the middle of the floor? We sit down with Barbara Kratus Stark, Director of Sales and Marketing for Infinity Drain. We dive into what you can do with drains in that shower and even take it outside for that driveway, deck, or patio. Plus we dive into custom stainless steel shower pans as well. All this and MORE on Around the House!

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[00:00:09] Eric Goranson: around

[00:00:11] Caroline Blazovsky: preference over a waterproofing that works well with your dream that you think is like, okay, this thing is going to hold up for 20 years.

[00:00:27] Barbara Kratus Stark: Whether it's traditional methods, like a vinyl pan liner, hot mop led pan copper pan. Or a liquid or a fabric bonded kind of modern system. And we get asked that question all the time. Waterproofing is best. And my answer to that is whatever your installer is most comfortable, right. You

[00:00:50] Caroline Blazovsky: I

[00:01:05] Eric Goranson: Come to around the house with Eric G and Caroline B. This is your one-stop shop for everything around your house.

[00:01:20] Barbara Kratus Stark: Oh, just a little

[00:01:22] Barbara Kratus Stark: bathroom stuff.

[00:01:33] Barbara Kratus Stark: house.

[00:01:38] Eric Goranson: show. This is going to be a lot of fun because people go, oh, it's a drain. Who cares? This is how you make a statement around the house. Literally,

[00:01:52] Caroline Blazovsky: So we were talking about. You know, that type of thing, but when you're dealing with a drain, I need a good drain because

[00:02:18] Barbara Kratus Stark: And it really is that like, you know, cherry on top of the sundae, um, for all of the details, when you're selecting a bathroom fixtures,

[00:02:37] Eric Goranson: That's Chrome, especially when you've got like brass or black fixtures or something like that. And it's like, you did such an amazing job and that missed the mark.

[00:03:05] Eric Goranson: space.

[00:03:36] Eric Goranson: When we, when we do the addition, I've got to do that because I tell you what, there is nothing like putting in that cool drain with. And there's a lot of different ways to do it. You can almost make it disappear. You can make it be a statement piece.

[00:04:02] Barbara Kratus Stark: Um, there's a ton of things to consider. Like, are you trying to achieve a barrier free bathroom or a curbless shower? You know, that that that's can be tough to do with a remodel, um, for new construction, you've got time to, you know, modify your plans and make sure that you've accounted for all your floor Heights and things like that.

[00:04:41] Barbara Kratus Stark: We have to tell the water. Where it needs to go in order to drain water efficiently and effectively outside of that enclosure. Oh, that's a question

[00:04:58] Caroline Blazovsky: Like what do I want to accomplish? [00:05:00] Obviously the water to go down. Right? That's no brainer, but what do I,

[00:05:06] Caroline Blazovsky: So what am I looking for? What kind of luxuries do I have with a drain that I don't know?

[00:05:19] Barbara Kratus Stark: Um, do I want to match the finish of my fixtures? Um, is my tile or flooring material a consideration. So for instance, if you're choosing between a center drain and a linear drain, your flooring material, Could have an effect on that. So normally with a center drain or sloping the floor in a four way dish dial pitch towards the center or wherever that point point drain is located.

[00:06:14] Barbara Kratus Stark: So this way you've got this one plane pitch and you're not trying to cut up your large format tile, like a, like a pizza or like a pie. So flooring material is a consideration. Um, and how do you want it to look? Um, just design and what are the aesthetics of the bathroom? But then kind of when we get going to what is underneath the tile, that's all about waterproofing.

[00:06:59] Barbara Kratus Stark: Am I designing a [00:07:00] carwash style shower? Whereas, you know, body sprays, you know, his and her. Do we need to move a lot of water out of the shower or is it a pretty shout, a standard shower set up?

[00:07:30] Eric Goranson: Into the shower, tilt it back towards the back wall and have that long drain along the back wall. That is such a beautiful look with a clear shower door. It just makes the room look so big and so seamless and timeless at the same time, because you don't have to change tile when you run into that.

[00:08:08] Barbara Kratus Stark: So how are you going to waterproof this huge space and what type of drain channel and system works better? With the installation methods that you're using.

[00:08:31] Eric Goranson: If you've got that designed, right. I've had more clients that have wanted to do that in the past. And I left an option in there that they didn't know about for a shower door that we blocked it and everything else, because, but half the time the clients go, Hey, it's really cool. But as soon as I back away from that water, I'm freaking.

[00:08:52] Barbara Kratus Stark: And we even in the shower door where it's just, um, a stationary piece of glass and then the other section [00:09:00] is totally open. Yep. Um, yeah. These are all things to consider. Like how are you really going to use this space? What is it going to feel like? Um, things look really cool in magazines and on Pinterest.

[00:09:16] Eric Goranson: up. If I get the licensing from pictures, I would write a book of Pinterest fails. That just were pretty pictures of things that you could never pull a permit on, or probably should ever do in your.

[00:09:46] Barbara Kratus Stark: On what not too. So it's good to see what you should do, but it's also great to see what you should avoid and not do exactly. How about

[00:10:09] Caroline Blazovsky: I mean, or doing type of infinity?

[00:10:40] Barbara Kratus Stark: In the poor, they block that out because they've planned ahead. Um, but yeah, for remodels barrier, free showers on a slab, like on a first floor, they're tough to do, like I'm not going to sugar coat it, it's not easy. Um, but if you've got a basement or if you're doing it on an [00:11:00] upper floor, As do sister Joyce and other methods to be able to recess that into the floor.

[00:11:20] Eric Goranson: that curve. Yeah, just because the floor is at one level, that curb lets you reset to another level behind it.

[00:11:36] Barbara Kratus Stark: And you really won't ever know because visually you've got this physical curve that you're stepping in and out.

[00:12:07] Barbara Kratus Stark: Enclosure can also possibly save you floor height as well. So knowing which wall you're going to put it on, or even if you're going to place it along the threshold or the entrance of the shower, um, can help you cheat a little bit and gain some floor Heights.

[00:12:28] Eric Goranson: So we've been talking about this for a few months now, and, and those are some of the challenges with an older home and concrete floor, how to do that.

[00:12:40] Caroline Blazovsky: so who is the expert? So I always ask Eric, but who's the expert that you consult when you're looking at a drain? I mean, is it someone like, is your tile person, or should you be going to getting a kitchen and bath consultant?

[00:13:21] Barbara Kratus Stark: Wherever. Um, so those traditional methods of waterproofing, for instance, or like a vinyl pan liner boring. That's why my

[00:13:33] Barbara Kratus Stark: drain. Oh, for sure. Because it was whatever was on his truck. And also he got it at the county. But through a decorative plumbing and hardware showroom, that is where your design options really open up with different styles and finishes.

[00:14:10] Eric Goranson: That's where that designer also helps you because as a homeowner going in, you have not seen all of the options out there, rarely, uh, of what are the options are and your designer goes, okay, well, what are you gonna do for the shower drain?

[00:14:41] Eric Goranson: And so then they guide you as the homeowner to, Hey, why don't you go down to that luxury, you know, plumbing wholesaler, take a peak. In C keeps them out of the home centers and actually look at products that would work exactly for, they want to do, and then they can order or get in what [00:15:00] they need to little fit that application.

[00:15:17] Barbara Kratus Stark: Yes exactly. So going through a decorative plumbing showroom, I would say that's your primary primary source for sourcing luxury decorative drainage solutions?

[00:16:05] Barbara Kratus Stark: Um, so kind of, it could go either way, it could go through the plumber. It could go through the tile setter. A lot of times it has to do with the waterproofing. Um, but the plumber will always set the waistline. Where is the waistline located in the shower? And that's always something that needs to be in the plans or the drawing as well.

[00:16:39] Eric Goranson: happens Carolinas, the plumber will come in. They'll rough it in, they'll usually put it in toddler, what it needs to be.

[00:17:03] Eric Goranson: Some of those are not easy to install even for the tile centers that do every day. Uh, I have seen some, some very high-end professionals sit there for 25 minutes, struggling trying to get the system in that they've put in a thousand times. And they still have to fight it to get in. It's not easy sometimes with some of these companies that have their own shower system and drain.

[00:17:27] Barbara Kratus Stark: And another thing to consider with the complete shower system is that those companies are great at making. Waterproofing or tile installation materials. They don't really know the plumbing that well, and they don't have the design options, finishes custom capabilities that a drain manufacturer that who focuses on that specifically would be able to provide a client.

[00:17:57] Caroline Blazovsky: hard piece. We're always looking. So obviously [00:18:00] I look at mold and my job as an environmental consultant is to look at moldy situations and fix them. And my clients come to me all the time and they're asking me, okay, well, you know, which plumber should I use? Which Tyler, which system should I use?

[00:18:25] Caroline Blazovsky: Well, do you have a preference over a waterproofing that works well with your drain that you think is like, okay, this thing's going to hold

[00:18:53] Barbara Kratus Stark: And we get asked that question all the time. W waterproofing is best. And my answer to that [00:19:00] is whatever your installer is most comfortable with doing do well. That's it. I don't want to be the Guinea pig the first time someone's trying out a new method of waterproofing. Um, so yeah, I mean, as a drain company, we don't really marry ourselves to one type of waterproofing.

[00:19:44] Barbara Kratus Stark: Um, so those newer methods are catching on now, um, in regards to your concerns with mold and things like that. What's great about the newer types of waterproof. Fabric or liquid is that the, um, tile can be [00:20:00] applied directly on top of that waterproofing membrane. So you don't have water seeping through Tyler grout cause Tyler grout are not waterproof.

[00:20:33] Eric Goranson: torn one of those out there.

[00:20:47] Barbara Kratus Stark: disgusting. Mel's I tell my

[00:20:56] Caroline Blazovsky: That's not the problem. It's the degree of it because every bathroom is going to sweat. [00:21:00] Its poorest, the vapor goes right through and you're going to have a nasty condition. So I like these new systems. Like she'll lose her. We've been recommending them since I guess about, I guess they came out like 2005, but when we were recommending them, people didn't know what, any type of system, you know, they, they were like, what are you talking about?

[00:21:20] Barbara Kratus Stark: Yeah, it definitely is. You know, we make a linear drain system that is compliant, which looters a full system warranty. We worked with them, um, on getting that signed off by them. It's a great system that they offer.

[00:21:52] Caroline Blazovsky: as well, right Eric, we like Arctics products too. There, there weren't.

[00:22:17] Eric Goranson: Right. We'll leave it at that. You know, I have not done a vapor system before, so I had a good brain trust, you know, one of the things with linear drains and curbless showers that I want people to really think about. Before they even installed is make sure that that is sized correctly because all it takes with a curbless shower is a little bit of a slow drain.

[00:23:04] Eric Goranson: So you've got to really plan things ahead and make sure you stay up on your maintenance with. So it works correctly.

[00:23:27] Barbara Kratus Stark: And it's really easy to do that with a liquid membrane paint on roll-on style of waterproofing. Um, so we always recommend a quarter inch per foot slope within the shower enclosure. But when you're doing barrier free, you would also want to consider putting a really gentle eighth, 16th of an inch per foot slope on the dry side of the bathroom as well.

[00:23:56] Eric Goranson: That's exactly what I did. Cause I actually put in the heated floor in there [00:24:00] and I did the X system in there. And so we ended up using their, um, their, after we put the RDX down, we floated in their floor leveler, and then we kicked it to the opposite wall a little bit before it's set up.

[00:24:26] Caroline Blazovsky: Clog up your drain. I mean, you could have a BA you know, your septic good backup, and if it backs up, you could end up with a coming out.

[00:24:34] Eric Goranson: It's all about a little water control.

[00:24:46] Eric Goranson: But it's something that you've always, we talk about it in our spring and fall checklist here on the show. You just got to go do it.

[00:25:00] Barbara Kratus Stark: up, you're on their head, that this is a question that comes up a lot when we're doing trade shows and they're like, whoa, this is such a cold drain. Does this mean I don't have to clean it? It's like, no, it's still a drain.

[00:25:31] Eric Goranson: You know, one of the things I like that you guys have in your linear drains is you have it where you can put the tile in there so that you hide that big piece of metal.

[00:25:55] Barbara Kratus Stark: Oh, absolutely. The Thailand cert frame is our most popular style. It's [00:26:00] totally a fan favorite, whether it's a center drain or linear drain, um, you know, the tray itself comes empty.

[00:26:30] Barbara Kratus Stark: And you're like, exactly. That's the point on. Cool.

[00:26:44] Barbara Kratus Stark: Right. So most linear drains come with a supplemental hair catcher in addition to whatever would catch on the top.

[00:27:15] Barbara Kratus Stark: And we had some folks go a couple months without cleaning it and it, you know, it just, it catches a lot. It's still, you still have a really good flow rate. Um, so definitely take a look at your, at your hair catcher with, with any type of drain, whether it's a center drain or, or a linear drain. Um, and, uh, you know, you're going to have to do clean that out every now and then, but most drains come with that, whether you use it or not is up to you.

[00:27:47] Eric Goranson: see you guys do exterior drains as well, because I tell you what, you know, you do a lot of looking out there and you've got, you know, maybe it's the drain around the pool or the driveway. And you've got maybe a stainless steel and a black [00:28:00] plastic or a green plastic that looks really not directly.

[00:28:15] Barbara Kratus Stark: Yeah. It's this idea of having architectural drains on the exterior of your home. You know, something that, you know, really has a great look to it.

[00:28:51] Barbara Kratus Stark: To that PVC, you know, drain grate that, you know, you normally see an exterior applications.

[00:29:17] Eric Goranson: So if you've got strong water or something, come back in. You'll never notice it because it just looks that good. And it's not this ugly drain system. You go, wow. That's not hot.

[00:29:48] Barbara Kratus Stark: Just the awesome paver systems. Eric

[00:30:05] Caroline Blazovsky: So we had to do something like that and we put in a much more decorative looking drain because you just don't want this ugly. You know, plasticky looking thing. When you've spent all this money doing a paver system that doesn't look

[00:30:32] Barbara Kratus Stark: It's those finishing touches where it's like, oh, this is the level of finish that matches the rest of. This project, whether it's residential or commercial, whatever it is. So, um, yeah, I mean, it's a great option to have. I'm sure they're probably more expensive than, you know, what you're going to find at, at a wholesaler.

[00:31:07] Caroline Blazovsky: know we don't want people going to Pinterest to like, Examples. So where should people go to find your products, but really to S where do you think the best showroom?

[00:31:21] Barbara Kratus Stark: available. Yeah. And you know, our products are available across the United States in, you know, showrooms, large and small, um, you know, a lot of showrooms. You've got, you know, national players, like a Ferguson regional players.

[00:32:02] Barbara Kratus Stark: They aren't afraid to call the manufacturer and ask questions. Um, when, you know, you've decided on, you know, whatever fixture it is, like, you know, let's make sure that everything is going to work well together. Um, but yeah, I would definitely go through a plumbing showroom, a tile showroom somewhere, somewhere where you can talk to an expert and say, this is what I want it to look like.

[00:32:30] Eric Goranson: See my secret place I go to here in Portland, Oregon, as I popped down to Chown

[00:32:39] Eric Goranson: They are easy. They've been around for 142 years now, I think. And they are one of those family run companies where the family that is running at 142 years later.

[00:33:07] Barbara Kratus Stark: So what's really cool. And one thing that I love about being in the plumbing industry is there are so many businesses just like town.

[00:33:45] Barbara Kratus Stark: Um, but yeah, those independent dealers, they are incredibly knowledgeable. They have great relationships with their manufacturers. Um, they are fantastic to work with. Absolutely. I see that

[00:34:06] Barbara Kratus Stark: Yeah. Okay. So this is a stainless steel shower base.

[00:34:35] Barbara Kratus Stark: Um, with a primer. So it's ready to tile. Basically. You are. Building your placing your studs around this enclosure, putting your cement board down or whatever type of waterproofing waterproof wallboard you're using. Um, and you're tiling and the drain is integral to it. Uh, it's got a lifetime waterproofing warranty.

[00:35:19] Barbara Kratus Stark: So now we have it available to anyone and it takes that coordination of the tray. And makes it pretty seamless between the carpenter, the plumber and the tile setter. Because like we said before, it's hard to have like a meeting of the minds with those three trades. And so this takes a lot of the guesswork and really standardizes the shape of the shower, how the shower is installed and makes it easy on the installation.

[00:35:50] Caroline Blazovsky: something I would like on my slab. Because I have this slab bathroom that's on top and it's been like a moisture control issue. Right? Cause you can imagine you've got a slab that's [00:36:00] constantly breeding moisture and vapor through. So the shower becomes just the Mecca of. Um, and I've tried everything.

[00:36:24] Barbara Kratus Stark: Our standard sizes. It's a 60 by 30, um, kind of a tub to shower conversion. We can do some custom fabrication. Normally we're doing custom fabrication for larger quantities. Um, but you're lucky, you know, someone in the drain game now,

[00:37:08] Barbara Kratus Stark: Whereas normally with anyone else, if you have a waterproofing failure, they're like, oh, well it looks like you need to remodel your bathroom. There's not a lot of calm homeowner's insurance.

[00:37:29] Eric Goranson: But those soldered corners to me are a weak spot within that because it's not made out of one piece. So that was kind of my concern. I'm like, okay. The whole thought of having something in there. You guys can put it in there. It can be welded. It's banned. It's done at a much different way than if it's just a soldered piece.

[00:37:51] Barbara Kratus Stark: I mean, any waterproofing is going to get flood tested or it should get flood tested before. Uh, you move on to the next [00:38:00] step. Um, but yeah, I always find what, one of the things, when I, when I started in the drain industry, I found very interesting was how regional waterproofing was.

[00:38:19] Eric Goranson: that's hot, hot tar, and then California. Yeah, hot,

[00:38:28] Barbara Kratus Stark: Um, and then everyone else kind of does this vinyl pan liner thing, unless they're doing a fabric or a liquid modern system. So yeah, it, that was very surprising to me. I thought everyone just did it the same way, but that is not the case. And it's strange like

[00:38:47] Caroline Blazovsky: And so we it's so vastly different how we do construction, which is kind of amazing because you don't think it is, but it is. And especially showers here are very different. Like you said, we're doing, we still see a lot of the led [00:39:00] pans. We've been seeing a lot of the traditional mud, um, which is, you know, not so much what they see

[00:39:06] Eric Goranson: Yeah. We're much less of that out here. We're probably. From what I'm seeing out there. I think we're probably close on, at least in the Northwest up here, we're probably 60 or 70%, you know, of the new shower systems, the sliders, the wet is the art Xs and all those guys. That's where really everything's going because a lot of those new guys are like, I, I'm not doing this.

[00:39:38] Barbara Kratus Stark: Well, I think what they've found is that it's a faster install. There's less dry time, you know, it's way easier for them. It makes their job easier. So, you know, Some people like to adopt what we have found is, you know, kind of sometimes the plumbing trade is hesitant to change and to learn new [00:40:00] things.

[00:40:24] Barbara Kratus Stark: There are hungry for information and, you know, they're really willing to try new things that are going to be better solutions for their clients, but also make their jobs easier as well.

[00:40:46] Eric Goranson: And I kind of love getting the popcorn out and watching it, but, uh, good people. But, uh, there's the old school guys and the new school guys and they like to, it's like a.

[00:41:10] Barbara Kratus Stark: And then anyone who wants to try something new there's options out there for them

[00:41:28] Barbara Kratus Stark: stuff?

[00:41:53] Barbara Kratus Stark: So you still get that good flow rate. Um, so kind of what we're seeing is how do you make the drain [00:42:00] disappear even more? Uh, but still have full access and functionality to the waistline. So the slot drain is something that's really cool. Um, we're always looking at what are, what are the next finishes that are going to be popular?

[00:42:31] Eric Goranson: my whole showers matte

[00:42:35] Barbara Kratus Stark: So, you know what, we're seeing a lot in appliances right now is this kind of like gunmetal black stainless. And, you know, is that kind of, is that setting the trend for what we will end up seeing? In the bathroom. So for custom finishes, we're seeing more requests for that gun metal kind of black stainless type of look.

[00:43:08] Eric Goranson: goal is so hard because there's 42 different rows gold.

[00:43:19] Barbara Kratus Stark: Who's bronze. So

[00:43:27] Barbara Kratus Stark: Everyone's looks a little bit different. The great thing with the drain though, is that the drain is on the floor and the fixtures are on the wall. So at least they're not right next to each other. So if you're pretty close, it's going to look great.

[00:43:57] Eric Goranson: Cause this is, those are not going to play well [00:44:00] together. I promise. Cause they're just different.

[00:44:23] Barbara Kratus Stark: Um, so yeah, it's finishes are tough. And especially when you're mixing manufacturers, no, one's looks exactly the same. Well, the

[00:44:46] Eric Goranson: It's not a standard color, like it used to be with white, black, Harvest gold.

[00:45:17] Barbara Kratus Stark: I

[00:45:32] Caroline Blazovsky: I mean, Eric has opened my eyes to so much technology and all of these amazing things that happen in kitchens and bathrooms. And there's all kinds of shows out there that you can get your hands on. It's just

[00:45:59] Barbara Kratus Stark: And [00:46:00] a touch see, feel, you know, before I make that, that commitment to the product. So I think it's really important to go support your local showrooms and really pick the brain of those experts who are there. I mean, they are there to help you specify and create your dream space and they have a wealth of knowledge on, you know, everything that goes into putting a bathroom together and many different manufacturers that can give you those solutions.

[00:46:41] Eric Goranson: They're there to save you because what happens is, is you can do all the research on Google that you want.

[00:47:06] Barbara Kratus Stark: Right. And especially right now with supply chain issues, those sales associates, they know the manufacturers lead times how quickly they can get product, whether those lead times match up with the timeline of your project.

[00:47:29] Eric Goranson: And when you get that brand, you'll get the brand that you ordered, not some bad knockoff that you can get online. So that's the other part, too, exactly. To trying to buy coach purses online. They might not have spoken coach. Right.

[00:47:50] Barbara Kratus Stark: So our website is awesome. Infinity drain.com and that's drain with, with no S infinity drain. Um, we have [00:48:00] image galleries, spec, sheets, installation, videos, kind of all the resources that you would need, um, to see what is this style?

[00:48:31] Barbara Kratus Stark: So, yeah, I would send people right to our website. Um, there's also a dealer locator on our website. If you'd like to find a, a local dealer who can then help you make that selection and, you know, give you confidence around what you've, what you've

[00:48:59] Eric Goranson: [00:49:00] That's exactly right. Thanks for coming on today. Is there anything that we missed that we didn't talk about today?

[00:49:19] Barbara Kratus Stark: Um, so when I started infinity drain, we were actually packing up drains in a basement. Um, so we've come a long ways and, um, but I think we have a really cool story, which you can read about on our website. And, uh, we're the ultimate drain nerds. This is all we do. And we live boring

[00:49:36] Eric Goranson: That sounds almost scary.

[00:49:47] Barbara Kratus Stark: Well, thanks so much. It's been a pleasure. Have really loved it.

[00:49:52] Caroline Blazovsky: Caroline B and you've been [00:50:00] listening to Around the House