Shownotes
Today’s guest is Jonathan Synovic, who shares extensive knowledge and passion for youth success in the trades. Having grown up in a family focused on volunteerism, Jonathan's commitment to giving back drives his advocacy for vocational training and the trades.
Jonathan discusses the cultural shift away from hands-on training within the trades, where generational gaps have led to a disconnect in training and retaining younger workers. He emphasizes the importance of real training and the need to understand generational differences in work ethic and expectations. With Gen X expecting a strong work ethic and common sense, there is often a disconnect between Gen Z's digital upbringing and need for tactile skills.
Through the Home Building Trades Foundation, Jonathan and his colleagues aim to reach out not only to schools with existing trade programs but also to those without them, highlighting the opportunities in the trades beyond traditional building fields, encompassing areas like auto mechanics and restaurants.
We share insights on the decline in high school employment, the impact on young adults' preparedness for the workforce, and the unrealistic expectations that often follow. They also examine how state testing mandates and parental expectations shape students' educational choices, advocating for the need to provide alternative pathways and better parental guidance and understanding.
By the end of the episode, it's clear that there's not only a need for skilled workers but also for trade contractors to adopt new ways of engaging and training the next generation. They discuss how to promote apprenticeships as a viable and rewarding alternative to traditional college paths.
We think, ultimately a call for a societal reevaluation of how the trades are presented to parents and students, focusing on the personal fulfillment and immediate gratification that skilled work can provide and the importance of combating the stigma associated with trade careers.
Let’s build a brighter future together!
Highlights:
-The Impact of Educational Policies on Trade Exposure. Mandatory trade course exposure in the past for middle and high school students. Current limitations on electives due to state testing mandates
-Stigma and reduced interest in apprentice programs
-The Role of Parental Guidance and Expectations. Business owners' frustrations and the consequences of their children's choices. The need for alternative education pathways like technical certifications. Parental expectations driving students toward college rather than trades
-Trade Advocacy and The Home Building Trades Foundation.Resources and advocacy for integrating trades into schools.Encouraging parents to be open to their children's career choices in trades
-Apprenticeships as an Alternative to College. Promoting apprenticeships and their benefits. Brad’s call to action for listeners interested in trades.
Connect with Jonathan-
Steve Doyle:
Brad Herda:
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Transcripts
Welcome to Blue Collar B's, a podcast that busts the popular myth that we can't find good people, highlighting how the.
Steven Doyle [:Different generations of today, the boomers, Gen X, millennials and Gen Z are redefining.
Jonathan [:Work so that the industrial revolution that.
Brad Herda [:Started in the US stays in the US. The Blue Collar B's podcast helps blue collar business owners like you build a business that'll thrive for decades to come by turning some of that blue collar B's into some blue collar business solutions.
Steven Doyle [:In this episode, you're going to learn that the hurdle is the contractor, not the employee. There is a need to change our language for students and parents, the need for the giver to give, and also the importance of asking, how are you?
Brad Herda [:Our guest today is Jonathan Sinovic, a passionate Gen X for the youth to be successful in the trades, forming the Home Building Trades foundation to make a difference. We hope you enjoy this show.
Steven Doyle [:Come back to the show. Brad hurt, how are you doing today?
Brad Herda [:I am fantastic, Mister Stephen Doyle. And what is life in Detroit today like?
Steven Doyle [:Detroit is just another beautiful fall day. The temperatures drop, the drizzle came. It's fantastic. There's no big burning thing in your eyes wondering what the hell is going on.
Brad Herda [:Just still not on the sidelines. Yeah, right.
Jonathan [:Whatever.
Brad Herda [:It's okay. It's okay.
Steven Doyle [:All okay.
Jonathan [:This airs after all of that airs.
Steven Doyle [:It's all good, right?
Jonathan [:It'll be great.
Jonathan [:Yep.
Brad Herda [:More cheat. Perfect. You guys in Detroit, you guys in Michigan know how to do lots of good things there.
Jonathan [:Wow.
Steven Doyle [:We're going to go there, all right.
Brad Herda [:Absolutely.
Steven Doyle [:But it's all right, you know, we'll just let it all settle out in court. It's all good.
Jonathan [:Perfect.
Steven Doyle [:All good.
Jonathan [:We will let the field, we'll let.
Steven Doyle [:The players on the field do the talking for all of us. You know, Sunday, Monday morning, armchair quarterbacking.
Brad Herda [:Yeah, it's okay. You bet.
Steven Doyle [:So who do we got on the show today? Brad.
Brad Herda [:So today we have a gentleman that I've been very blessed to know for the last, I don't know, five or six years or so through the metropolitan Builders Home association. He was a former president of the MBA during a fun time in that history. He is the owner and founder of SourceOne Project Solutions, executive director of Step Beyond Green to healthy, and also a board member and president of the Home Building Trades foundation. And the list goes on and on and on and on about other things. But a guy that's heavily involved in the building industry, Mister Jonathan Sinovic. Thanks for being here, Jonathan.
Jonathan [:I'm excited to be here with you guys. Yeah.
Jonathan [:Thank you.
Brad Herda [:That's what most people will say when they first start, and then that changes as it goes along. So thank you for saying that. We appreciate it.
Jonathan [:Oh.
Jonathan [:Oh, wait. You told me to lie in the first statement. I thought that's what part of the show was.
Brad Herda [:Oh, you read the notes wrong.
Jonathan [:Okay, got it.
Brad Herda [:Okay, perfect.
Jonathan [:Okay. You're in with you.
Steven Doyle [:You're in. So before we get down too many rabbit holes, first question that I always forget to ask is, which generation do you, Jonathan, fit in with?
Jonathan [:Gen Xer. All right.
Brad Herda [:You are a Gen X and proud to be one, whereas Steve, on the other hand, claims to be one and.
Steven Doyle [:You claim not to be a boomer.
Brad Herda [:That's a true statement, which I. Yes, sure, whatever. So with all the fun things you got going on here, Jonathan, and you filled out our pre form piece, which I. Which we appreciate because that helps us drive some engagement along the way in the home building field and the construction field that we both participate in and Steve participates in as well. The lack of workers, the lack of things. What do you see as the largest challenge for the builders and the subs and the trades going forward? What's their biggest hurdle and obstacle to overcome?
Jonathan [:You know what? I had much different answers to this over the last, I don't know, twelve to 24 months. And actually recently I settled it on the biggest hurdle is the actual trade contractor themselves. And the reason I say that is because back in, if you remember, 1020 years ago, you would take an 18 year old out of high school that had no experience and you had enough generational co workers to bring them in and actually train them along a path, and you would continuously do that.
Jonathan [:Right.
Jonathan [:So you always had kind of this in training piece going on in all the different trades. And then recently, you know, over the last two years, there is this big hiatus away from the trades.
Jonathan [:Right.
Jonathan [:And so we've seen this. So what's happened is we have this big two decades.
Jonathan [:What's that?
Brad Herda [:Two decades?
Jonathan [:Yeah.
Jonathan [:Well, yeah. So you can go back even further. But I guess the point being is that there's a gap between the age groups on that job site now. And so we've forgotten how to train. You know, we've forgotten what it's like to bring someone in with no experience, and it's challenging, and it costs most of those, those trade contractors money.
Jonathan [:Right.
Jonathan [:So I think that's. That's one of the biggest hurdles we face right now, is kind of reengaging the trade, saying, hey, we got to get back to real training. And I think that's, that's, that's a challenge for them because they're ready to retire.
Jonathan [:Right.
Jonathan [:I mean, most of these guys are not wanting to start all over, and there's, there's no connection to that younger 18 year old anymore. They can't relate to that. Yeah, I think that's the biggest challenge, along with the people entering at 18, but that's a different.
Brad Herda [:Take that watch. None of those entering 18 go ahead.
Steven Doyle [:Yeah, let's go there. So what we have come to see and come to find out from our experience is, one, our common sense that we have as Gen Xers is different than the common sense that Gen Z has. So going into that 18 to 20 group, coming into the workforce with, you know, zero experience, what are some of those preconceived ideas that us as Gen Xers and, you know, you and me as Gen Xers, Brad, is the boomer have on these, these new Gen Zs coming in?
Jonathan [:I think the top three that always hit my, my list are we expect them to have a work ethic. I think they're supposed to come in with this idea that they want to do what they're doing, and then if they don't, they'll just barrel through it.
Jonathan [:Right.
Jonathan [:Because that's what Gen Xers did. Didn't matter what it was. We just barreled through it. I think that's the biggest, that's the biggest complaint they hear mostly, is that, oh, they just, they don't want to do it. And I'm like, do they not want to do it? Well, we can talk about that, but I think that's the, that ethic, that piece of it, that drive seems to be not there. I think the expectation that they are supposed to have common sense, I think that's a, that's something that, as, as Gen Xers, we just assume everyone has, and then when they don't, it's like a gigantic surprise. Like, and we're like, oh, my gosh, that's how. How could you not know to pick up the hammer instead of the nail gun? Like, I mean, well, how would they know that, right, that the tactile pieces of how they think have been all digital? So how would they possibly know the tactile piece of gold? What's a two x four? What's the nominal piece of a two x four? I get.
Jonathan [:They don't even know that. Well, how many people back 20 years ago knew what the nominal size of a two x four was at 18, right? Like, that's not common sense. That's just, you know, when you think about it, that's just how you learned along the way.
Jonathan [:Right.
Brad Herda [:So why is this dimension on two by four different? I don't. What?
Jonathan [:Hang on.
Brad Herda [:It's two by four. No, it's not.
Jonathan [:It really isn't. Right.
Jonathan [:Right.
Jonathan [:I think that's the. That when I speak to straight people and their expectation of an eight of an 18 year old, I think they've. We've got this preconceived idea they're like us, and I think you've got to strip that mindset that they're like us. You know, I think that's the start point with that.
Brad Herda [:So the not like us piece to it.
Jonathan [:Right.
Brad Herda [:So the home building Trades foundation, which I'm grateful to be part of and you allow me to be part of, so I thank you for that. Tell our audience, you know, how the foundation is trying to support the trades and everybody else to get to a point where we can recognize different and be more effective with different than just accepting different and complaining about it.
Jonathan [:Sure.
Jonathan [:So the trades foundation has two arms to it. One is obviously getting into youth, the youth areas, trying to understand how to deliver to the youth. Surprisingly, our focus isn't necessarily to go into trade to schools that already have trades. It's actually going to schools that don't maybe have any trade program.
Jonathan [:Right.
Jonathan [:I think that's kind of a misnomer that while trade companies should go into only trade only schools, well, you're only going to deal with 25 to 50 kids at a time to do that.
Jonathan [:Right.
Jonathan [:So how are we getting to the other schools that have no trade programs? How are we delivering a point of view that there's some other path besides college? So one arm is kind of getting to schools, and the other arm is starting to educate the actual trade contractors out there with the. I want to connect you with a student, but I want to help you with that connection. It's not just about, hey, you have a job, and here, go have them apply. It's how do we get you to a job site? How do we train both of you? How do we train you to stay there as a student? And how do we train the contractor to keep them? And so we have a two part arm in our foundation that's trying to stab both those.
Brad Herda [:Yeah, how do we train the contractor? That's the age old question many home builders have been asking for decades. How do we train those contractors to do what we want them to do? And it's difficult are you seeing, right. You also have kids and you have kids in programs and all over the place. What are you seeing as you go out in the community in different places? The receptiveness to the conversation about plumbing, roofing, h vac, etcetera as you're out and about talking to organizations and schools, etcetera?
Jonathan [:I think I like to compare. The reaction that I get from most people is if I were to come in and talk rocket science to a group of middle school students but talk it as if I'm talking to a bunch of 40 year olds that might understand rocket science. And what I mean by that is I don't think we're actually talking in a language to parents and students in a way that's deliverable and comprehendible and it means something, right? We're trying to actually come in, historically come in and show an actual trade, a plumber. I mean, there are over 5000 different trades and yet we show a plumber every time someone says trades. And so when the students and their parents are saying they're like, well, I don't think they have any interest in being a plumber, I go, well, I think that's not what we're trying to get at. And then it dawned on me that that's the problem is we're always trying to deliver a particular skill instead of actually talking about the feelings that you get from accomplishing something in a short period of time. And what I mean by that is think of what that plumber really does. And what's exciting about that, they walk into something that has no piping in it, right? That has no ability to have water flow or take sewage away.
Jonathan [:And they step by step add a piece to it that eventually gets to a point on which it's like that student or that person gets to turn on the faucet, see the water come in and go out and then they can do it over and over again. And so what I've learned about this generation especially is that they want that immediate gratification of doing something great and then they need it right away again. So we need to be focusing on that piece of it saying, at the end of the day, you can do that. And that can be done in the field, in a house building. It can be done on a manufacturing plant. Think of concrete countertops and how they start off in all these raw, all these raw materials. And then you put them all together and you make this beautiful slab. Like we don't have to focus so much on the things, the tactile things.
Jonathan [:Everybody thinks we do. We need to let them know that that mind, that skill set of getting immediate gratification within a short period of time is really what the trades are all about.
Steven Doyle [:Yeah, absolutely. One of the things that we're seeing here in Michigan is actually a movement of apprenticeships and that apprenticeships equal college. So going through a four year apprenticeship is similar through going through four years of college, with the main difference, you're getting paid during your apprenticeship. What have you seen in your experience around the need for more of those apprenticeship type programs for our youth?
Jonathan [:So apprenticeship programs have become an absolute need because if you think about middle school, so think about the nineties, the late eighties, early, early nineties, middle school. Almost every middle school had a woods class. Yeah, if you think about it, right? Yep, I was in it. Yeah. In 6th, 7th and 8th grade, you were exposed. And you know what? You didn't have a choice. It was actually part of the curriculum. And I'm going to be a little sexist here.
Jonathan [:The women went to the home x course and the men went to the woods course. And whether you actually enjoyed woodworking, had you ever touched a tool before or have you no intention of doing any woodworking after 8th grade? You had to do it, right?
Jonathan [:Yeah.
Jonathan [:So your first exposure point was then. And then when you got to high school, then it wasn't necessarily a path, but you could hop in and out of metals course, uh, auto the mechanics course, you could woods course, you know, digital photography, all kinds of different things.
Jonathan [:Right.
Jonathan [:And, but it wasn't a path, it was just, that was an elective. You're able to bounce back and forth between. So if I got kind of in a piece of it. So now if you fast forward to today, the state testing mandates and how they're dictating, the amount of free time students have in a high school is almost down to two electives a semester. Two.
Jonathan [:Right.
Jonathan [:Whereas it was over half when we were younger. So when you say, well, we want to put more trades in high school, I kind of argued the point with, so someone has to pick that path freshman year. Well, yeah, because by the time they get to junior year, we want to get them off to a tech school. What person at that age wants to leave all their friends, wants to figure out if they want to do it, wants to go on an actual pathway and go, oh yeah, this is, this is for me. No, but this is if we don't put them on that path. See, the state kind of sliced it away and said, well, we'll make an exception well, what kind of, what kind of imagery is that giving to that student? We'll make an exception for the tradespeople.
Jonathan [:What? Right.
Jonathan [:Yeah. That's going to be real encouragement.
Jonathan [:Right.
Jonathan [:Part of the exception, not the rule. You know, I'm going to go this little and it's going to be like twelve of us and there's going to be 400 people in my class, but twelve of us are going to go on the exception. We've made a stigma to this. So unfortunately, apprentice programs are what have developed because we wanted to somehow attract those students. Now, I might say however, though, in those apprentice programs, we're only attracting students already interested in the trades.
Jonathan [:Right. Right.
Jonathan [:The pool's not growing, so that's not growing the trades.
Jonathan [:Right.
Jonathan [:I mean, think about that. You already are attacking a demographic that's already interested in it, right?
Jonathan [:Yep.
Jonathan [:Yes.
Brad Herda [:We need to figure out how the expansion of it is, what's important, because the math does not work out. You're not going to 3d print a home out of whatever and somebody's still got to go do all the rest of the work. It doesn't matter.
Jonathan [:Well, see, but they're trying to glorify that piece of it, though. Sorry, I don't know, but they're trying to glorify the mechanical pieces. Like we got all this stuff that can do stuff for us now as a way to somehow make it better or make us feel better about not having as many people enter the trades. I think sometimes, too, I like to expand the trades into restaurants, truck drivers. Like, it doesn't, we say trades. It doesn't even have to fall into the building segment. We're not having any more mechanics. Forever.
Jonathan [:Forever.
Jonathan [:Every five mechanics that retires, we get one back in it.
Jonathan [:Right.
Jonathan [:The hourly rate of a mechanic is almost tripled in the last four years.
Brad Herda [:That's why $600 for an oil change.
Jonathan [:Right. So it's like shocking, right? Like, but we're not, we're not engaging any of that segment, you know? So how many apprentice programs are there for the auto mechanics?
Brad Herda [:So, Jonathan, you are very, very passionate about this topic, as our listeners can probably hear and those watching the clips can see. Where did that passion and drive come from for you?
Jonathan [:I'm going to be perfectly honest, catholic guilt, that's going to be really.
Jonathan [:And.
Jonathan [:I honestly say that. So I grew up in a very, very heavy cat ethnic family. My father was part of the Knights of Columbus. We volunteered upon volunteering. Upon volunteering. And then when you had no time left, we volunteered. And what I learned from that is that there was so much power and enjoyment that came from giving that it almost was better than actually receiving it.
Jonathan [:Right.
Jonathan [:So when you think about all the things that we can do in our industry, it spans beyond just the trades. It spans on how mental health expands on physical health. It expands. There's so much neat things that can happen when groups of people come together. We start with a piece of dirt, and we end up with an entire house that someone lives in and then has multi generations living it with, whether it's within theirs or somebody else's. I mean, what an amazing piece of that, what we've lost. I mean, I started to lose. I saw over the last 1015 years this loss of that, the self worth within people to believe they could be bigger than they are, to want more than they are.
Jonathan [:All I saw was the need to self indulgent. I think it's all about me. And it just. It just really. It just guilted me into being, like, we got to be an advocate, right? And so I have the power of.
Jonathan [:Chatter, I guess, where I can just.
Jonathan [:Go out and talk. But more importantly, I think I like to speak the truth. And when someone speaks the truth and you can start to resonate on different levels, people listen. And so I think that once I started getting an audience that said, hey, this is. He's got something to say that's worthwhile.
Jonathan [:Which took a while, by the way.
Jonathan [:COVID didn't help. Let's just be honest.
Brad Herda [:COVID did not help.
Jonathan [:Yeah, yeah. It's just interesting because I just heard, I'm working with a bunch of high school students now in a program that has nothing to do with the trades, but I wanted them to talk. They basically make an event that was geared 100% towards high school students that were not interested in the trades. Now, how about a task for a bunch of 17 year olds? I have five of them, and I asked them, I need something, and I want to go through your minds. And for the last month and a half, I'm telling you guys. Steve, Brett, mind boggling the thought process. Like, the in depth of the scroll. The scroll, the scroll, the scroll.
Jonathan [:Why'd you stop? Oh, that was something shiny. It was an influencer.
Jonathan [:It was.
Jonathan [:It had nothing to do about the product. It just. That was a moment, right? And so I had them start to do research about why they never even got interested in the trades. And the research they came back with was phenomenal.
Jonathan [:Right.
Jonathan [:I think one of the best statistics that they came back with, I do want to share is that in 1979, 64% of high school students had a job that were eligible to have a job.
Jonathan [:Yep.
Jonathan [:So over half of your eligible class had a job in high school.
Jonathan [:Right.
Jonathan [:As of last year.
Brad Herda [:I started working in my junior year. Full time, essentially.
Jonathan [:Yep.
Jonathan [:So that was 1979. As of the same study last year, less than 15% have it have a job in high school. Now, the only reason that that statistic is even important is what I'm about to say is what they found was, is that 15%, now, that gap between 64 and 15%, that's when you learned how to get up in the morning, how to go do something, how to come back from something, how to be accountable for that piece of it, how to understand what a paycheck was, what taxes were, how to have a bank account, how to get your license to get a car to get something, how to take the money you have and build on something better that was actually taught in high school.
Jonathan [:Right? Right.
Jonathan [:So now that same statistics and only 15% instead of 64. Now. Now it is almost a guarantee that if you did not work in high school, you will not have a job in college. It is almost 100% true. If you do not have a high school job, you will not have a college job. Now, why is that important to our trades guys, to the companies? Is that if you think about the first time that that person graduates college and comes into your interview and as an employer, you're pissed because they've got no experience, they've got nothing to give you, and they want 90 grand. Those are all the reasons why.
Jonathan [:Right? Right.
Brad Herda [:Wow, that is a. That is a mind numbing statistic there, Jonathan. Holy crap.
Jonathan [:Yeah.
Brad Herda [:When was the study? Was the study a 2022 study or 2023? When was it? The 22.
Jonathan [:Yeah, 22.
Brad Herda [:Wow.
Jonathan [:Just, I mean, it makes sense, right? So now if you start making the connectors, how we started this, this, this whole piece of it is why I say training the trade contractors now, you couldn't possibly, neither one of you could contemplate not having any experience, not knowing anything you want, and walking into a job interview and asking for 90 grand. Like, it's just, it's not even. So when you get that, your knee jerk reaction is get out of here, right? I mean, that's just what? That's not their fault. They have literally no concept of anything. And then when they don't show up at eight, you're like, why, of course they want flex schedules. They don't know what working is like. So to them, they have to be flex, right?
Brad Herda [:So I have a remodeling contractor that I work with. And when we put together as general labor expectation requirements, like the general labor, general labor level one that we have, it essentially is show up to work within 15 minutes of start time, five days a week, right. With the expectation, you show up on time two to three days a week. That's level one expectation. And then the move up. And that has a wage associated with it. In order to get to the level two, you need to show up on time, not late, all five days a week. And that gets them their opportunity to control their own wage path and control their own opportunities versus putting it on the employer to understand, and owners need to understand that it's different.
Brad Herda [:Life has been scheduled. If they haven't worked, they haven't worked at all as they get out of college or even out of high school. But they've been doing after school activities or club activities because most kids are heavily involved. That's why they don't work, because we want to have fun at school and be with our friends. With everything being scheduled. And all of a sudden you got the one thing you want to do, sweep up the floor. And they go, well, why the hell didn't you take out the garbage? Because he didn't tell me to. That whole thought process of what is next and what's down the line, that's never developed because it's never been a skill that the schools are trying to teach them.
Jonathan [:You know what's really interesting about your thought there, Brad, was they're all in these school activities, right? So my next layer, when I start, when I start to talk to people, when you said they don't know to take out the trash.
Jonathan [:Okay.
Jonathan [:So think about how, how busy we are as adults now and how we want just as much. You hear this kind of, well, both parents are working. They want to have their fun. They want to do their thing. So they're not home, right. And then their kid goes to after school activities and they learn to be all these things that they want to be in sports. And now you're just moving them from sport to sport to sport. You're doing all these things.
Jonathan [:When is the last time you actually heard a young adult say, I had to finish my chores before I went to the football practice?
Steven Doyle [:Exactly.
Brad Herda [:Long, long time ago.
Jonathan [:Like, like, it's absolutely crazy. It was something that we mandated in our household. Like, my kids are in sports and everything else. And it's amazing. When my kids go to somebody else's house, the feedback from their parents are we actually, they asked if we were eating dinner at the table. That was the first question because we only, we always eat dinner at our table.
Jonathan [:Yeah.
Jonathan [:Not in front of a tv, not in front of something else, I said. And the second thing was, when dinner was done, they got up, they loaded the dishwasher, and then started grabbing our plates. Our kids have never done that.
Jonathan [:Right.
Jonathan [:And it's just like, so think about that. So it's not, and I'm not trying to, like, boost my own kids, but if the majority of the population is like this, and then again, you're mind boggled that they didn't move on to the next task. Their tasks were school activity orientated. Those are set paths. Right. I learned to go be, you know, if I'm in basketball, I learned to dribble the ball. I learned to do all these things. It's very structured.
Jonathan [:The next thing I do is this. The next thing you do is you teach. And you've been teaching and teaching and teaching and teaching and teaching. So how then all of a sudden, when you get out and into a job in the trades, how does that expectation go from, I'm no longer being taught, I have to do it on my own. And we're surprised that they can't do it.
Jonathan [:Right? Correct.
Jonathan [:Right.
Brad Herda [:There should not be a surprise at all.
Jonathan [:Well, and it's. It's frustrating.
Jonathan [:Right.
Jonathan [:It's more frustrating, maybe not a surprise.
Brad Herda [:What's frustrating to me is the business owners that.
Jonathan [:Right. It's.
Brad Herda [:It's mostly their kids as well.
Jonathan [:Right.
Brad Herda [:It's the business owners themselves.
Jonathan [:It's the kids of the kids or.
Brad Herda [:The kids themselves that have been generated. We've created our own destiny. We've created our own problem, and yet we look at ourselves and go, well, shit, what the hell's going on here? That wasn't, this isn't supposed to be happening. I don't understand. Well, we created the problem on our own. At the end of the day, in my.
Jonathan [:Yeah.
Jonathan [:And I think that's, that's okay. Right, right. I mean, we've actually learned this. I think that's the critical piece that when I tell everybody, oh, my gosh, the adults are the problem. Well, I mean, we all grow. And I think what we've learned, even with the mental, with the pandemic and how we are, is that we are adaptable. So it's not something that we have to give up on. It's something that we have to be actively going out and talking about and being part of the community and actually letting them know, like, the frustration that high schools students are getting right now is that they're being told a thousand things in a thousand directions and they're getting no backing from their parents as to help or that communication or what I should do.
Jonathan [:It's very much like, well, I want to impress my parents, so I'm going to continue on the baseball team because in middle school, I was the star first baseman and my parents showed up to my games and I was really excited about that. So I'm going to continue on this path, even though that may not be the path I want. It's how I got that craving from, you know, I saw my parents, they were active in it. They were excited about it. And so what I tell, you know, young, young adults is you have to somehow find it on your own sometimes. The parents aren't going to always be there, I said, but we also have to, as, as the educators, we also have to give them pathways. So I, one of the things that frustrates me about, like, AP courses, right, is they become a standard in every high school. And when I talk to high school students and I'm like, are you thinking about the actual trades? And they're like, well, we would, except that we're taking so many AP courses.
Jonathan [:AP courses equal what? Why would you take an AP course?
Jonathan [:More work.
Brad Herda [:They equal more work.
Jonathan [:Go to college. No, see, to go to college. But you actually sold them on college on their sophomore year and their first AP course because you're giving them credit, right? Oh, my God. So I talk to these AP students and they're like, I don't actually want. I don't want any of this. But I had to be smart. My parents want. And it was really impressive that I was in AP courses and there's all this extra work, and I'm like, do you even want to do this? Do you want to go to college? And they're like, I don't really know.
Jonathan [:But I guess since I'm taking AAP courses and I'm getting all these credits, I should probably continue. When I was in high school, I mean, there was like, less than 2% that took the AP courses. Why? Because all, half the class was going to be out. They were never going to college, right?
Brad Herda [:Correct. Because you were too busy drinking and smoking and partying. It's okay.
Jonathan [:I mean, well, maybe.
Brad Herda [:Maybe kind of. So our, I was just at a board meeting with our chamber, and our local school was here, and they were talking about the amount of tech stuff that's going on in Hamilton and different things and where we are in the state and they got this course, I don't remember all the details, but it was like over $300,000 of tuition was saved based on some of this dual enrollment and other study classes and things like that from getting non four year degrees, beginning your technical certifications in office management or on, you know, operations management or logistics or different things. The other certifications that are out there that can lead you down a path inside manufacturing, construction and trades without necessarily swinging the hammer. We still need all of that too, because somebody's got to estimate the shit, somebody's got to do the math, somebody's got to go do the sales, somebody else do all that work. And too often there's not that connection there either. So it was pretty improv. I was like, wow, that's a pretty impressive stat. But statistics are just what they are at times, right?
Jonathan [:Exactly. Yep.
Steven Doyle [:So Jonathan, before we wrap up, because of how passionate you are and in the trades and an advocate for the trades for our schools, how can parents, teachers, educators, students get in touch with you to learn more about what it is the foundation offers, more about how to be an advocate for the trades for our kids to boost this pipeline that we so dearly need.
Jonathan [:Sure, sure.
Jonathan [:Well, you can check us out on our website at www.homebuildingtradesfoundation.org. And I say we're in a very pivotal piece right now. So we're actually working with multiple other organizations that are actually trying to do the same things in different ways. And finally I said, why aren't we all coming together? So in the next, I would say, year, we're looking at a multitude of organizations that we're going to become the umbrella to. So as we grow programs, as things become available, we'll be feeding our website. So I would check back there quite a bit. It's going to change rapidly over the next twelve months. We've got some major industry changers like Nheri, chambers of commerce, other trade associations that want to come this and go on a straight path, right.
Jonathan [:Instead of all of us all scattered all the way out. So I'm pretty excited about that. I think the other thing to do is be open minded. I tell a lot of parents that when they hear their child come home and go, not really sure. That's not a blow off, that's not a, well, yeah, you'll figure it out. That's very much like, well, what do you mean you're not sure? Like maybe sports aren't my thing, maybe the academics are not where I want to go. And it's when you hear that, keep engaging the conversation. We're such a, it's interesting because we talk about, like, mental health and, like, suicides on job sites.
Jonathan [:And the, and the number one statistic that blows my mind about suicide prevention is that by simply asking how they are today can almost eliminate 50% of the suicides that happen in the trade. No one asks them how they are, not how the day is, not how the job is, how are you? And so when your child comes to you and you don't ask the same thing of your child, how are you? How is school? Where do you feel you want to go?
Jonathan [:Right?
Jonathan [:And then when they tell you they don't want to be in the academic realm, then I think it's a parent's responsibility to hit the pavement. Ask around. Look for local associations in your area. Look for the union. It doesn't matter, just get information. But we have to take responsibility as parents to ask that question. How are you and how can I help you today? How can I take that one piece, that one, that one burden off your shoulder? Are you really worried about your future or have I forced that burden on you?
Jonathan [:Right. Right.
Jonathan [:And I think we do that together. My gosh, we can change the entire world, I think.
Steven Doyle [:Yeah, absolutely.
Brad Herda [:Thank you, Jonathan, so much for sharing your passion, sharing your energy, sharing your enthusiasm for youth and getting them involved and engaged in a very rewarding industry and so many variations of it. So thank you so much for being here today and sharing your passion.
Jonathan [:Thank you both for having me. It's been awesome.
Jonathan [:Yeah.
Brad Herda [:Thank you for listening to blue collar B's, brought to you by vision for business solutions and professional business coaching income. If you'd like to learn more on today's topic, just reach out to Steve Doyle or myself, Brad Hurda. Please like share rate and review this show as feedback is the only way we can get better. Let's keep blue collar businesses strong for generations to come.