Separation Anxiety in Dogs with Rosee Riggs: Myths vs. Facts Every Dog Guardian Should Know

Speaker: 00:00:01

Welcome to the Yappy Hour, powered by

Yappily, the podcast for dog lovers

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who want to better understand and

connect with their canine companions.

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I'm your host, Nathan Dunleavy, and

today we are diving back into a topic

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close to my heart, separation anxiety.

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This time I'm joined by Rosee Riggs.

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A certified separation anxiety, pro

behaviour consultant and myth busting

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powerhouse who's on a mission to clear

up all the confusion and guilt that

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often surrounds the emotional disorder.

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If you've ever been told your dog's

just spoiled or that there gets

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over it, if you ignore them, this

is the episode you need to hear.

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So grab a cup of tea, settle

in, and let's get started.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Welcome back to The Yappy

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Hour, powered by Yappily.

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I'm your host, Nathan Dunleavy, and

I'm so excited to bring you another

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episode of The Yappy Hour Today.

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Joining me today is Rosee Riggs.

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Welcome Rosee to the Yappy Hour.

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How are you doing?

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rosee: Yeah, I so much for

the invitation, Nathan.

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It's so nice to be here.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

You are most welcome.

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And I just asked you before we hit

record, how I pronounced your, like your

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name, because I can't pronounce my Rs.

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And then as, as I said it, I

don't think it came out right.

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'cause I can't pronounce my Rs.

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It's Rosee

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rosee: Riggs.

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Yes.

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Rosee Riggs.

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Exactly.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Well, we'll just gonna, we're gonna

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stick with Rosee anyway so that's fine.

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So I'm really looking forward to this one.

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'Cause even though essay separation

anxiety is a topic I know, wow.

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I still hear a lot of myths

popping up again and again.

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And it's just really great to get

someone else's perspective on it and

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to, you know, bust some of those myths,

which we're going to be doing today.

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What made you decide to focus much of

your work on tackling misinformation?

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Rosee,

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rosee: Well I've been a

canine consultant for like.

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12 years, and I've become more and more

specialized in anxious and fearful dogs

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and dogs from a deprivation background.

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So in various different contexts, people

come to me, incredibly dedicated, people

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who have spent a lot of money and a

lot of time trying to help their dog.

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and not only on the internet, but

also unfortunately from trainers who

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don't have training in this, been

advised all sorts of stuff which

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they, they can see is making it worse.

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You know, recently I have now

a very successful client whose

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dog is chilled at a couple of

hours, but they spent five years

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.

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rosee: to do the, and so.

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Misinformation is a huge problem

in our world anyway at the moment.

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But misinformation about this

subject means that you've got a

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dog with a severe welfare issue.

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You know, it's, causes such distress

and the distress of seeing their dog

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like this, and then they're being given

information, which makes things worse.

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So why I'm quite passionate about

trying to cut to the chase, really,

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because the good news is that

we can very reliably help dogs

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm-hmm.

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rosee: isn't always the

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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rosee: right?

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'cause I had a, a greyhound, I a

Greyhound 12 years ago now Stevie,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm-hmm.

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rosee: he could only stay alone with me.

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He had true separation anxiety in the

sense that he even, he loved people.

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He was very open with with people.

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But having come from what I think

is a deprivation background,

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just living in kennels and

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm

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rosee: not having much human

contact, he that I was the person

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who was going to keep him safe.

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'cause that's what

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh,

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rosee: about, Nathan.

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It's

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yes.

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rosee: the dog, feeling safe.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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rosee: Yeah.

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So at that time there wasn't a, a method

really, that anybody seemed to know about.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

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rosee: yeah, so I know

what it's like firsthand.

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do as well to.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

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You and me both.

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Yeah.

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Our, our viewers will know.

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They've got my own essay dog, and I

love talking about it, so it's great to

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get your perspective on things, Rosee.

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So why do you think the SA is so

widely misunderstood, even in: 2025

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rosee: Well, that is a big question,

but when I adopted was: 2012

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nobody was talking about it at all.

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If you said, I was actually in the

middle of doing my training a, a, a

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canine behaviour consultant at that

time, and it was always a bit sort

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of like, oh, your dog can't stay on.

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That's tough.

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Yeah, that was it.

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But you know, I mean,

Greyhound is not a chihuahua.

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He was a big greyhound and he had

never lived in a house before, so,

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and he didn't know what a door was.

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So if he wanted to try and get out,

he would try and get out the windows

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and he would be bringing down the

curtains and there would be devastation.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.

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rosee: And my, I had two

whip, its at the same time.

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And when I, you know, came home, this

only happened a couple of times 'cause

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I, you know, cotton doung pretty quickly.

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But yeah, so they were looking like this.

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So at that time there was really nothing

out there except that there was one

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book by someone quite famous who said to

practice with keys picking up your keys

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh yes.

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rosee: of day putting on your jacket and

giving your dog Kong and leaving them to,

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well, Stevie didn't know what a con was.

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So, and when he was excited which

was often at that stage because

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he'd just come from the racetrack.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh,

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rosee: You know, they're either like

very tired and or very, very hyper.

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But I picked up my keys and put

them down once, exactly once.

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And I figured out that that is not gonna

help us at all, because he was frantic.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: oh.

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rosee: figured the fear

that I was leaving.

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So I thought, well, I don't

think that's gonna work for us.

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Yeah,

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I know what a con was.

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Anyway, so I at that stage that,

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that if, for example, I had a

child that was afraid of the dog.

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I wasn't gonna leave his child in the dog.

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And so I thought, well, I,

I can't leave him alone.

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Right?

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm

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rosee: I, I managed absences.

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I got him used to and comfortable

and feel safe with other people.

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And then I went to look so John Bradshaw,

you know the wonderful canine scientists

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in Bristol, he had just published a

book in: 2011

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Defense of Dogs, I think it's called.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm.

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rosee: He was the first person to

draw attention to the fact that it's

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a very, difficult, very severe welfare

issue, but it still wasn't a method.

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So one of the reasons I think,

that knowing how to deal with it is

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relatively recent or developing a very

effective method is relatively recent.

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of course, in the meantime, many

people have tried all sorts of stuff,

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and that is all over the internet.

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the internet has a very long

memory, and so when people.

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Googling you know, how do I help

my dog or stay at home alone,

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or whatever they're Googling.

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They're coming up with a lot of

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stuff.

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I think that's probably the main reason.

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Also in, social media groups that I

look, I've, I've left a lot of them

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now because it's difficult to watch.

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But unless they have moderated

an admin well, so that it's

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clear who is an owner and who is

actually a qualified behaviourist.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yes, I know.

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rosee: there is so much terrible advice.

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You, has it.

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Yes.

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We'll just put them in a crate or just,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh gosh.

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rosee: go out for five minutes and then

the next day go out for 10 minutes.

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Well, that's a lot.

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If you are terrified

of something, isn't it?

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm mm mm

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rosee: Sort of answers

your question a little bit.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

No, no, that's great.

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Brilliant.

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Alright, we're gonna be moving on to

our next section, which is all about

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the top myths we need to let go of.

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So Rosee, what would you say are

the most common myths you hear about

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SA that still do the rounds online?

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rosee: Alright.

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Yeah.

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So we're getting into, into the,

these groups and what's going around?

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I think probably the, one of the,

depending on where you are, one of

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the main things is to that a crate,

somehow putting your dog in a crate

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will somehow make them feel safe and,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

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rosee: or, you know,

just stop the behaviour.

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I think those are people who.

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Often don't look beyond the behaviour

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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rosee: a, a dog has, given up a crate or

something that, that solved the problem.

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But we know that most, most, most

clients who've ever come to me who've

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had that advice try also just tried it

once because they saw that this extra

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level of helplessness and, isolation

the dog just, just made it worse.

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I mean, it just frantic.

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So as it happens I live in

Austria, it is illegal to keep

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your dog in a crate at home.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, interesting.

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I never knew that.

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rosee: For welfare reasons.

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It, it, it is.

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okay to use a, a crate for

travel purposes travel safety

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or recovery from Med Medical.

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But who come to me off usually

actually have said, we may have

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tried it once, but we didn't

think that was a good idea either.

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So putting your dog in a

crate is not gonna help.

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It's, yeah.

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And it is that it is.

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Let your dog cry it out.

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So

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh gosh.

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rosee: sadly, this would, this also

used to be practice with children,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: It did.

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Yeah.

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rosee: Yeah.

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And when they said, you know, if you pick

a baby up who's crying, they, they'll

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be spoiled or something like that.

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In fact, I experienced it

that when I had my daughter,

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people were telling me not to.

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Not to to that, but we know

now that the distress that

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that causes can be so extreme.

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That can even cause neurological damage

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.

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rosee: it goes strong enough.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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rosee: And if it happens once

or more, it's traumatizing.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.

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rosee: How could it not be if,

if you are crying for help?

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I

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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rosee: somebody stuck me in a

room with, with poisonous vipers I

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was just screaming and screaming.

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Some dogs have actually, for

example, they lost their voice.

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They can't their voice is

damaged from trying to Yeah.

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Or they hurt

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh God.

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rosee: Escape, yeah.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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rosee: dogs cried out.

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That's another thing that least,

actually, what did I put out in here?

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Using food is a big one.

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That's what I had also with my dog.

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Stevie is said, give

him a Kong or something.

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With that is had a client who tried that

because they were advised to do that

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and they give him, so before they left,

they would come with a treat or a chew

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or something and took exactly two days

and they could no longer feed their dog.

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dog was terrified of the food.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh God.

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They poisoned the food.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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That cue.

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rosee: the cue.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.

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rosee: the dog immediately realized, I

mean, it's classical Pavlov, isn't it?

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This conditioning that.

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He is, it's the same with us.

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If somebody, if somebody gave me some

amisu and then gave me an electric shock

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or something, I would be very wary about.

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I.

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And every time I looked at a tumor

masu, I would think about that pain.

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And it's no different for our dogs two

days and she could no longer feed her dog.

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The dog was

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Wow.

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rosee: Yeah.

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When she

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Gosh.

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rosee: The

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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rosee: is of dogs are interested in

the food and they're chewing or they

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may be interested in the Kong and

they're then they will at some point

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suddenly realize they're alone and

go from being presumably calm to a

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panic attack and immediately, which we

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

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rosee: I mean, that serves nobody and your

dog is not going to teach them anything,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No.

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Yeah.

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Brilliant.

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rosee: sorry.

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Did you want to say something?

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: no.

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Go on.

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rosee: So allied to that, which is is,

is the idea that people have been told,

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to distract their dog, give them, maybe

get them something to eat or whatever,

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but to leave without them noticing.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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rosee: So what does the

dog learn from that?

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They learn, they've been tRiggsed

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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rosee: learn, they're losing trust

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm

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rosee: And the worst of it is, is

that they become hypervigilant.

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You can see dogs who are very,

very, very on every movement that

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm.

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rosee: caregiver, because they

are having to rhyme together

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the, intention to what's what's.

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What's this person going to do?

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They got up off of the sofa?

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Are they leaving?

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Are they not leaving?

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If they're leaving, are

they taking me with them?

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

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rosee: is of the dog and

they're in permanent suspense.

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Yeah.

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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rosee: I used to theater director.

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Right.

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And they, the the definition of

suspense is that, you know, something's

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gonna happen, but you don't know when

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm-hmm.

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rosee: this is the

situation the dog is in.

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at some point when your person

is moving, they're leaving,

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm-hmm.

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rosee: know what So you

alert permanent tension.

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Yeah.

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So that's, that's

predictability is so important.

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So I'm

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Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

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rosee: Man of using a signal, a

safe signal so that your dog knows

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that when I say this, when I show

you I use this a lot and it's been

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a game changer for a lot of dogs.

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It's really predictable.

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Makes your moves predictable

when you're doing that.

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So, so another myth is to

make things unpredictable.

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I've had a client who came to me

from a very famous franchise and

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they were told to make things as

unpredictable for their dog as possible.

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That means leaving through different doors

if you happen to have different doors,

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front doors, back doors, side doors, any

kind of door, but don't make it the same.

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And and to go for

arbitrary lengths of climb.

320

: 00:16:28

So that didn't work either because

the dog has nothing to get a on.

321

: 00:16:34

Whereas we.

322

: 00:16:36

our training, we are building up very in

very tiny increments of very safe ritual,

323

: 00:16:42

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm-hmm.

324

: 00:16:43

rosee: actually the dogs after a while

though it is to find quite boring, right?

325

: 00:16:50

So that, oh, we're doing that again.

326

: 00:16:53

Okay.

327

: 00:16:53

So half an hour of just you walking

backwards and forwards and but they learn

328

: 00:16:58

when I give this predictable signal,

it's going to be boring and it is boring.

329

: 00:17:04

And I know that most trainers

very proud brightly of

330

: 00:17:10

motivating a dog to do something.

331

: 00:17:13

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

332

: 00:17:13

rosee: am very proud that I can

very effectively bore a dog.

333

: 00:17:17

That's, yeah.

334

: 00:17:21

So, yeah.

335

: 00:17:23

What else have we got on the

there's so many, unfortunately.

336

: 00:17:27

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That's okay.

337

: 00:17:30

rosee: Your dog sleep on your bed,

that causes separate No, it doesn't.

338

: 00:17:36

End off, it does not.

339

: 00:17:40

People come up with these

things though, isn't it

340

: 00:17:42

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I know people just suddenly

341

: 00:17:44

think they're an expert, so Yeah.

342

: 00:17:48

rosee: and then a lot of peoples

think that their dog has, has

343

: 00:17:52

separation fears when they follow

them around in the house all the time.

344

: 00:17:57

But I read recently somewhere that I

think 64% of dogs who follow you around

345

: 00:18:04

in the house don't have separation issues.

346

: 00:18:09

A tool,

347

: 00:18:10

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

348

: 00:18:10

I've got some that do that to me.

349

: 00:18:12

Yeah.

350

: 00:18:13

rosee: but

351

: 00:18:13

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

352

: 00:18:14

rosee: and they, it's either

they just want to be with us,

353

: 00:18:17

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: they do.

354

: 00:18:17

rosee: which.

355

: 00:18:18

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

just wanna be with you,

356

: 00:18:19

rosee: I just wanna be with you.

357

: 00:18:21

It'd be awful if they didn't really.

358

: 00:18:23

And sometimes I have

found that people have it,

359

: 00:18:27

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: right?

360

: 00:18:28

rosee: by mistake.

361

: 00:18:29

Yeah.

362

: 00:18:29

So that couldn't be something that maybe

people got into habit of going kitchen,

363

: 00:18:35

making some food, just sort of dropping

bits of food or just reinforcing it.

364

: 00:18:39

You know, which

365

: 00:18:39

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

366

: 00:18:40

rosee: good the dog, because

they're always sort of looking

367

: 00:18:44

whether something's gonna happen

and they don't get a lot of rest.

368

: 00:18:47

But yeah.

369

: 00:18:48

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm-hmm.

370

: 00:18:51

rosee: Yeah, this was a story.

371

: 00:18:54

People are told that if your dog greets

you calmly when you come home, or

372

: 00:18:58

they assume that if your dog greets

you calmly when you get home, they

373

: 00:19:03

had no problems while you were out.

374

: 00:19:07

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh,

375

: 00:19:07

rosee: awesome.

376

: 00:19:07

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: okay.

377

: 00:19:09

rosee: Yeah.

378

: 00:19:09

That, that's quite a per pernicious

I have to tell you a story.

379

: 00:19:12

This is a sad story, but a trainer

colleague of mine had a dog who had

380

: 00:19:18

came, come to her for many, many years

for sort of nose work and fun stuff.

381

: 00:19:25

And, you know, there wasn't

really a problem and she

382

: 00:19:27

knew the family really well.

383

: 00:19:30

one day the family put up a camera

in the house for a reason, which

384

: 00:19:35

had nothing to do with the dog.

385

: 00:19:38

And they discovered that when they were

at work during the day, the dog was

386

: 00:19:44

pacing around the sitting room, up the

stairs, around the landing, down the

387

: 00:19:53

stairs, around the sitting room up the

stairs and around the landing all day.

388

: 00:19:59

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Looking for them.

389

: 00:20:01

rosee: No, it, they, the dog

had developed an obsessive

390

: 00:20:05

behaviour to deal with the fear.

391

: 00:20:09

'Cause you

392

: 00:20:10

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Okay.

393

: 00:20:11

rosee: have ability to cope.

394

: 00:20:12

And in that time, the dog didn't

sleep, the dog didn't drink anything.

395

: 00:20:18

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh

396

: 00:20:19

rosee: and when the family came

home, the dog greeted them totally.

397

: 00:20:24

Normally.

398

: 00:20:25

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

399

: 00:20:27

Hmm.

400

: 00:20:27

rosee: So

401

: 00:20:29

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Interesting.

402

: 00:20:29

rosee: then, I said, don't make any

assumptions until you put up a camera in

403

: 00:20:35

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

404

: 00:20:36

rosee: house.

405

: 00:20:37

Yeah.

406

: 00:20:37

Because you, you really don't know.

407

: 00:20:39

Some dogs greet people calmly.

408

: 00:20:42

Some are a bit more, more full on as

we, as we know, but that we can't, we

409

: 00:20:47

can't know how they were doing when we

410

: 00:20:50

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

411

: 00:20:50

rosee: from, from that.

412

: 00:20:51

Yeah.

413

: 00:20:52

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

414

: 00:20:53

rosee: We've, yeah.

415

: 00:20:54

We talked about keys and

jackets and shoes and.

416

: 00:20:59

That is actually taught a lot of trainers.

417

: 00:21:03

It has been taught over many, many years.

418

: 00:21:06

And it seems logical because

chronologically, that's the

419

: 00:21:09

first thing we're doing.

420

: 00:21:11

And

421

: 00:21:11

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm

422

: 00:21:11

rosee: thing that dog may get upset about.

423

: 00:21:14

Say, you know, oh,

you're getting your keys.

424

: 00:21:17

But actually, if we think about it

logically from the dog's point of view,

425

: 00:21:23

they're not actually afraid usually of

the keys or the jacket or the shoes.

426

: 00:21:29

They're afraid of you leaving.

427

: 00:21:31

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm.

428

: 00:21:31

rosee: So if we, if we

solve that problem first

429

: 00:21:35

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

430

: 00:21:36

rosee: 'cause what's the point?

431

: 00:21:37

First of all, what's the point of

practicing something which is unnecessary?

432

: 00:21:42

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

433

: 00:21:42

rosee: 'cause you may find when your

dog is happy with you being away of a

434

: 00:21:47

while, that they're not too bothered.

435

: 00:21:49

About the keys or something, because

it's just a signal for something that

436

: 00:21:53

terrible is gonna happen at the moment.

437

: 00:21:55

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm

438

: 00:21:56

rosee: but the worst thing is that we're

actually making it worse, because if we

439

: 00:22:00

do that, we're just triggering the fear.

440

: 00:22:02

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm

441

: 00:22:03

rosee: triggering a fear response

over and over and over again.

442

: 00:22:07

The dog is going, you

know, are you leaving?

443

: 00:22:10

Oh, you're not leaving?

444

: 00:22:11

Okay, are you leaving?

445

: 00:22:13

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

446

: 00:22:16

rosee: Imagine?

447

: 00:22:18

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, it's Tim.

448

: 00:22:19

Yeah.

449

: 00:22:20

You're kind of getting them, you know,

you're getting 'em worked out, but

450

: 00:22:23

then you're not, then you are, then

you're, they're just in a constant

451

: 00:22:27

state of franticness and over arousal,

452

: 00:22:30

rosee: Yeah.

453

: 00:22:31

I mean,

454

: 00:22:32

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: not.

455

: 00:22:33

rosee: is that?

456

: 00:22:33

In actual fact, thinking about

it that way, if you wanted to

457

: 00:22:37

torment a dog, that would be a

458

: 00:22:40

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh, God.

459

: 00:22:41

rosee: of doing it, you know, which is so

460

: 00:22:42

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I

mean, I can see the point, but obviously,

461

: 00:22:45

yeah, I can see the, what you're saying.

462

: 00:22:47

You've gotta work with a dog

in front of you every time.

463

: 00:22:50

rosee: Yeah.

464

: 00:22:51

I mean some people say they have

success with that, then, but I always

465

: 00:22:56

think, well if, your dog's problem is

the leaving, if you solve that first,

466

: 00:23:02

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm-hmm.

467

: 00:23:03

rosee: may not do all that

468

: 00:23:05

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

469

: 00:23:07

rosee: with

470

: 00:23:07

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

471

: 00:23:07

rosee: And I'm a great fan

of not having to do training.

472

: 00:23:10

You don't have to do, you

know, what's the, point in

473

: 00:23:13

spending all that time really?

474

: 00:23:16

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

475

: 00:23:17

All right.

476

: 00:23:19

rosee: yeah.

477

: 00:23:19

So there are only two more I

think I had on my little list.

478

: 00:23:24

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Okay.

479

: 00:23:25

rosee: One more.

480

: 00:23:26

It is just arbitrary times.

481

: 00:23:28

It is like okay.

482

: 00:23:28

Well the way to deal with this,

you get this on Facebook a lot,

483

: 00:23:32

is go out five minutes today

and go out 10 minutes tomorrow.

484

: 00:23:36

And I have a friend who is

terrified of traveling in a lift.

485

: 00:23:41

And if I said to her, well,

don't worry, we'll sort this out.

486

: 00:23:44

We're gonna put you in a

lift today for five minutes.

487

: 00:23:48

I'm gonna put you in a lift

tomorrow for 10 minutes.

488

: 00:23:50

Yeah.

489

: 00:23:51

She'd probably have a nervous breakdown of

490

: 00:23:52

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

491

: 00:23:53

rosee: of it.

492

: 00:23:54

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

493

: 00:23:56

rosee: So, yeah, these are things that,

you know, they sound good in a way,

494

: 00:24:01

but if you look at them closer Yeah.

495

: 00:24:04

so many of them aren't there?

496

: 00:24:06

They're,

497

: 00:24:07

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

it's, yeah, it's ridiculous.

498

: 00:24:08

rosee: they're probably many more.

499

: 00:24:10

Have you got,

500

: 00:24:10

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, I'm, no, I'm sure.

501

: 00:24:12

I think you've covered some that

I wouldn't have even thought of.

502

: 00:24:14

So there was some that.

503

: 00:24:16

You know, I did think of, but moving

on to our next question then we have

504

: 00:24:19

sort of touched on it a little bit.

505

: 00:24:21

But why is tough love in inverted

commas, why is the tough love

506

: 00:24:25

approach so harmful in these cases?

507

: 00:24:29

rosee: Well if you mean the tough love

is like letting them cry it out, let's,

508

: 00:24:33

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

think so, yeah.

509

: 00:24:34

rosee: It sort of close the

door behind you and they will

510

: 00:24:38

get used to it, you know?

511

: 00:24:40

Well,

512

: 00:24:43

we are talking about a serious fear here.

513

: 00:24:45

Yeah.

514

: 00:24:46

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm.

515

: 00:24:47

rosee: so if you close the door

on your dog and let them just cry

516

: 00:24:54

it out, or it may not take that

form, they might try to escape.

517

: 00:24:58

They might plant frantically or things

or get Frantic in, in any sort of way.

518

: 00:25:05

That is traumatizing.

519

: 00:25:07

It, it actually, it really needs

to happen once if it's extreme.

520

: 00:25:11

But you do that a couple of times

and you have a traumatized dog.

521

: 00:25:14

I don't know what else

to say about it really.

522

: 00:25:17

There, there's another myth actually

that I haven't got on my list, but

523

: 00:25:21

I should put it on afterwards, is,

524

: 00:25:26

and trainers teach

people, teach people this.

525

: 00:25:30

I think it's really sad.

526

: 00:25:32

If your dog is barking in the house,

don't come in until they've stopped.

527

: 00:25:41

So dog is having a panic attack

how can they possibly understand

528

: 00:25:49

they're not gonna help them?

529

: 00:25:51

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

530

: 00:25:52

rosee: they're totally

dependent on us, aren't they?

531

: 00:25:55

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

532

: 00:25:57

rosee: I always think of myself being

in a room with vipers or something.

533

: 00:26:00

If I was screaming for help and somebody

was standing, I knew somebody was standing

534

: 00:26:05

outside the door and they're waiting for.

535

: 00:26:11

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

It's not gonna happen.

536

: 00:26:13

rosee: would I dunno whether this

is the same, but not only would

537

: 00:26:17

would I not understand that,

I'd be so, so angry and upset

538

: 00:26:21

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm

539

: 00:26:22

rosee: afraid.

540

: 00:26:23

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm

541

: 00:26:24

rosee: So no.

542

: 00:26:25

So in, in training our home alone

training, we don't even want

543

: 00:26:28

to get to that stage, do we?

544

: 00:26:30

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No.

545

: 00:26:30

rosee: nothing to be said

for tough love at all.

546

: 00:26:33

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

547

: 00:26:34

rosee: now even in, in, well, not

even, but in human relations, we

548

: 00:26:39

know that love shouldn't hurt.

549

: 00:26:43

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

550

: 00:26:43

rosee: Should it,

551

: 00:26:44

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: No.

552

: 00:26:46

rosee: it should not.

553

: 00:26:47

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

554

: 00:26:48

rosee: so for me, there's not,

there's no such thing as tough love.

555

: 00:26:52

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm

556

: 00:26:53

rosee: be tough, but then it's not love.

557

: 00:26:55

We need compassion and knowledge,

558

: 00:26:59

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm

559

: 00:27:00

rosee: so.

560

: 00:27:02

To say it again, I've said it again, but

I'll probably repeat it every 10 minutes.

561

: 00:27:06

We can help these dogs so

effectively, so why torment them

562

: 00:27:11

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

563

: 00:27:12

rosee: make things worse?

564

: 00:27:14

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

565

: 00:27:16

And I,

566

: 00:27:17

rosee: No,

567

: 00:27:17

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

yeah, and I think we said with the

568

: 00:27:18

tough love, the quiet out method

you mentioned about the neurological

569

: 00:27:21

effects it could have, so that's how

it could be quite harmful, couldn't it?

570

: 00:27:26

rosee: Yeah.

571

: 00:27:26

Yeah.

572

: 00:27:27

Well, of course

573

: 00:27:27

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

574

: 00:27:28

rosee: a neurological thing.

575

: 00:27:30

Any anyway.

576

: 00:27:31

But yes, I mean, it can really, really

serious cause physical damage as well as,

577

: 00:27:37

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm-hmm.

578

: 00:27:39

rosee: as psychological damage.

579

: 00:27:40

You can't really separate them at that

580

: 00:27:43

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

581

: 00:27:45

All right, so our next question is, what

are the dangers of trying to shortcut

582

: 00:27:50

essay recovery with gadgets or gimmicks?

583

: 00:27:54

Rosee

584

: 00:27:56

I,

585

: 00:27:57

rosee: yeah,

586

: 00:28:01

well, the first danger is that

it's not going to be a shortcut.

587

: 00:28:04

It's gonna make everything

much worse and much longer.

588

: 00:28:06

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

that's what I thought.

589

: 00:28:08

Yeah.

590

: 00:28:09

rosee: at that point of view

you know, don't do it to

591

: 00:28:12

yourself, nevermind you're a dog,

592

: 00:28:17

yeah, we just touched on the, on the food

thing, but if you have a fear being given

593

: 00:28:22

something nice to eat is not gonna help.

594

: 00:28:26

Because fear is, comes from

a lack of safety, doesn't it?

595

: 00:28:30

If, if you don't feel safe, then

you're not interested in food.

596

: 00:28:37

So if, I think what you mean by gadgets is

some of these automatic treat machines or

597

: 00:28:44

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yes.

598

: 00:28:44

Yeah.

599

: 00:28:45

Like treat and feed and or

something, or what's it called?

600

: 00:28:48

Yeah, the automatic ones.

601

: 00:28:50

Yeah.

602

: 00:28:50

rosee: dunno what I, I've never

used one, so I, I don't know whether

603

: 00:28:53

they kind of, they just throw out

treats, regular intervals or whether

604

: 00:28:58

you kind of operate it from afar.

605

: 00:29:01

But basically the one thing has

nothing to do with the other.

606

: 00:29:05

If, your dog has a fear, then we need to

help them recover from that fear, that

607

: 00:29:13

means analog to the way that humans, I

believe, are treated for fear issues.

608

: 00:29:22

In human psychology, we call it

gradual exposure therapy, I think.

609

: 00:29:27

in dog training, we, we tend

to call it desensitization.

610

: 00:29:32

I think one of the most difficult

things for a caregiver to get

611

: 00:29:37

the head round at first is that.

612

: 00:29:41

In order to, to get over a

fear, you've gotta do things.

613

: 00:29:47

You've gotta break down the process

of leaving into such tiny, tiny amount

614

: 00:29:53

so you're not triggering the fear.

615

: 00:29:55

And instead, because it is a neurological

as you, the dog is sort of and it's can

616

: 00:30:03

say, I can do that, that's not a problem.

617

: 00:30:05

I can do that.

618

: 00:30:07

And so the training is really setting

up situation where your dog is able

619

: 00:30:12

to say or to think or to feel, I can

do that over and over and over again.

620

: 00:30:20

If you think about it, and I

have a little poster actually

621

: 00:30:23

on my social media about this.

622

: 00:30:26

It's a bit counterintuitive, but

we have to practice what the dog

623

: 00:30:30

can do and not what they can't do.

624

: 00:30:33

Right.

625

: 00:30:34

If you are practicing, they can't

do, they're gonna be practicing.

626

: 00:30:38

I can't do this, I can't

do this, I can't cope.

627

: 00:30:41

And that's not gonna help anybody.

628

: 00:30:43

Whether they're getting treats thrown

at them outta the machine or are there

629

: 00:30:48

any other kind of gadgets people use?

630

: 00:30:51

Apart from rates, of course that's,

could, you could say that's a gadget.

631

: 00:30:55

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, I guess like maybe like the

632

: 00:30:57

cameras, they speak to him through

the camera and stuff like that.

633

: 00:31:01

rosee: Oh yeah.

634

: 00:31:01

Okay.

635

: 00:31:04

Yeah.

636

: 00:31:04

Well, as far as I know, doctors

are spread that confusing and it's

637

: 00:31:09

not the same as social support, is

638

: 00:31:13

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm-hmm.

639

: 00:31:14

rosee: I mean, dogs are incredibly

emotionally wise, aren't they?

640

: 00:31:19

They have

641

: 00:31:20

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm

642

: 00:31:20

rosee: emotional intelligence.

643

: 00:31:23

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm

644

: 00:31:24

rosee: I.

645

: 00:31:25

I don't think that a sort of a voice

coming from many, gonna have it much of an

646

: 00:31:34

effect on, far as I know, people who have

tried it say their dogs are just confused.

647

: 00:31:41

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm

648

: 00:31:43

rosee: not teaching them a skill we

have to remember, what we need to do is

649

: 00:31:47

not to just stop behaviours that we can

650

: 00:31:51

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm

651

: 00:31:52

rosee: because dogs are trying

to relieve themselves from fear.

652

: 00:31:55

That's what the behaviours are

that we're seeing, aren't they?

653

: 00:31:58

You know, if dogs are, are barking,

whining, drooling panting or whatever

654

: 00:32:02

they're doing, they're trying to, their

body is trying to relieve them from this

655

: 00:32:06

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm.

656

: 00:32:07

Mm-hmm.

657

: 00:32:10

What's your thought?

658

: 00:32:12

Go on.

659

: 00:32:13

rosee: no.

660

: 00:32:13

I mean, that's, that's not gonna

happen by by giving them which

661

: 00:32:18

have not, not to do with us.

662

: 00:32:20

They need our support and.

663

: 00:32:21

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

664

: 00:32:22

Yeah, they need that connection.

665

: 00:32:24

What's your thoughts on white

noise then, or playing Alexa

666

: 00:32:28

of relaxing, calming dog music.

667

: 00:32:32

rosee: Well there, there is

separation anxiety is often

668

: 00:32:36

accompanied as a comorbidity

thing with a sound sensitivity.

669

: 00:32:42

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

670

: 00:32:43

rosee: And,

671

: 00:32:45

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I.

672

: 00:32:47

rosee: we, we can help a dog with noise.

673

: 00:32:51

Or a sound music or something.

674

: 00:32:55

recommend using I dunno much about

Alexa to be honest, but I don't

675

: 00:33:00

recommend using sort of the, the

TV or radio because you can't, you

676

: 00:33:05

don't know what they're gonna play.

677

: 00:33:06

You dunno whether they're gonna suddenly

fireworks or a a report from a war where

678

: 00:33:12

there are shots and stuff like that.

679

: 00:33:14

Amazing how often also sort of

like radio drama and stuff play

680

: 00:33:18

in dog barking as a sound effect.

681

: 00:33:20

Right.

682

: 00:33:21

I, I think the idea behind that is,

is trying to keep your dog company,

683

: 00:33:28

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm

684

: 00:33:29

rosee: I don't think that it's

the same as the treat machines

685

: 00:33:32

or the voices or anything.

686

: 00:33:34

I think that a dog knows whether,

whether it is true connection.

687

: 00:33:38

I love that word that you use.

688

: 00:33:39

That's really what we're looking

for is connection, or whether it is

689

: 00:33:43

just, you know something automated.

690

: 00:33:46

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Okay.

691

: 00:33:46

Okay.

692

: 00:33:47

I've got another question for you, another

myth, I dunno if we're gonna cover it, but

693

: 00:33:50

I'm just gonna throw it out there now that

getting another dog will help your SA dog.

694

: 00:33:57

Mm-hmm.

695

: 00:34:00

rosee: well, I'm, I know

people who have done that.

696

: 00:34:06

They have got a and it has helped.

697

: 00:34:09

I have

698

: 00:34:12

however.

699

: 00:34:13

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

The other dog could end up with it.

700

: 00:34:15

He got two then.

701

: 00:34:16

rosee: Yeah, I'm getting to that.

702

: 00:34:17

The thing is, it doesn't work very,

it doesn't usually work, right?

703

: 00:34:20

So it is not something that we recommend.

704

: 00:34:22

You can definitely then have two

dogs with separation problems.

705

: 00:34:26

But even if it does, if it does

work, it's often a dog maybe who

706

: 00:34:31

has lost a companion another dog in

the family has died or something.

707

: 00:34:35

And of course that sort of relief

is, is great and no, that helps 'em.

708

: 00:34:40

But the fact is that they haven't really

learned a new skill they using the

709

: 00:34:47

other dog is as a helper, which is fine.

710

: 00:34:51

I mean, obviously any kind of relief

in this situation is fine, but you

711

: 00:34:55

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm

712

: 00:34:55

rosee: taught your dog anything

through, most of the time it doesn't

713

: 00:35:00

work, so we don't recommend it.

714

: 00:35:02

If

715

: 00:35:02

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

716

: 00:35:02

rosee: a second dog, then get a second

dog, but I would only do that if you.

717

: 00:35:08

If you yeah, if you want a second dog.

718

: 00:35:11

And it's also good, really good

for your, your family situation and

719

: 00:35:14

for the dog that you already have.

720

: 00:35:16

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

721

: 00:35:17

Brilliant.

722

: 00:35:18

Just thought I'd throw that one out there.

723

: 00:35:19

So let's move on to our next section,

which is all about social media

724

: 00:35:23

influencers and well-meaning advice.

725

: 00:35:28

rosee: Yeah.

726

: 00:35:28

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: What

role, Rosee, do you think social media

727

: 00:35:32

plays in keeping these myths alive?

728

: 00:35:37

rosee: Well, unfortunately, I think,

I think it has quite an, an effect.

729

: 00:35:41

It does because it

reaches so many people and

730

: 00:35:47

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.

731

: 00:35:47

rosee: it taps into something

which is absolutely understandable.

732

: 00:35:51

Understandable.

733

: 00:35:51

That has to be said.

734

: 00:35:52

If you, if you have a, a dog

with these problems, then.

735

: 00:35:56

Then it is very distressing.

736

: 00:35:58

It's an enormous burden.

737

: 00:35:59

You can't leave your house.

738

: 00:36:00

You're seeing your dog in distress.

739

: 00:36:02

Your entire life is probably

governed by this for, for a while.

740

: 00:36:07

So I think on social media can

tap into the wish to deal with

741

: 00:36:14

this as quickly as possible.

742

: 00:36:17

And if I'm, which I have been, you

know, into groups saying I am a

743

: 00:36:23

specialist in this, can help your dog.

744

: 00:36:27

It's not a quick, it will take a few

months, but then you have a dog who's

745

: 00:36:32

truly chilled and not just tolerating me,

which I actually think is not a very long

746

: 00:36:38

time to get over, you know, such a fear.

747

: 00:36:41

But then you maybe have somebody else that

they say, well, we put our dog in a crate.

748

: 00:36:45

And that sorted that out.

749

: 00:36:46

So, or we got a dog and

that sorted that out.

750

: 00:36:50

And so understand that people think,

okay, well we'll try that first.

751

: 00:36:54

'cause that seems like the easiest

option, but they may not recognize

752

: 00:37:01

the implications of all that.

753

: 00:37:03

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

754

: 00:37:04

rosee: but yeah, it, it's, it's something

that, it's really very difficult.

755

: 00:37:08

You see this going on all the time

and, and people are very unwilling

756

: 00:37:15

to accept however nicely one puts,

well, I wouldn't do this, you know,

757

: 00:37:21

because this people probably, we have

this confirmation bias, don't we?

758

: 00:37:28

We, if we believe or hope enough

that something really simple

759

: 00:37:34

and easy is gonna deal with it,

and it's sometimes difficult to.

760

: 00:37:43

Get outta that and or however, the tragic

thing is that if you actually do this,

761

: 00:37:48

if you do get professional guidance

and you know how to do it, you know,

762

: 00:37:53

just for several weeks, so you know

how to do this without making all the

763

: 00:37:56

mistakes then you actually really do

have a dog who is chilled at home and

764

: 00:38:06

oh, is in the, in the long run, quicker

than anything, than doing it wrong.

765

: 00:38:12

Is it?

766

: 00:38:13

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I think with SA though, unlike

767

: 00:38:15

other behaviour modification, that

it isn't, there isn't a quick fix.

768

: 00:38:20

It does take time, and I don't think,

you know, right, or rightly or wrongly,

769

: 00:38:24

people really understand that it can

take time and they want quick fixes, but

770

: 00:38:29

it, you know, you have to invest that

time in order to get to the end goal.

771

: 00:38:35

rosee: Yeah, but half an hour a day, five

days a week seems to be the sweet spot.

772

: 00:38:44

And,

773

: 00:38:45

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

774

: 00:38:45

rosee: and I have you know, some

dog dogs, it's a bit more complex.

775

: 00:38:50

Sometimes it, it takes a bit longer

for various reasons, but usually,

776

: 00:38:54

actually that is because there

are other stressors in the so, you

777

: 00:39:01

know, getting a professional, for

example, has a holistic training.

778

: 00:39:04

Right?

779

: 00:39:05

I, I don't mean kind of woo woo.

780

: 00:39:06

I mean, looking at the whole doc,

we can sometimes magic for that

781

: 00:39:12

dog just by very simple changes.

782

: 00:39:15

Yeah.

783

: 00:39:16

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm-hmm.

784

: 00:39:16

rosee: A dog who, if for example a dog

who does better with a, with another

785

: 00:39:22

door or a dog who, I know a dog who

was incredibly hyper and rushing around

786

: 00:39:29

like a maniac and not sleeping at all.

787

: 00:39:33

realized that they were doing much,

much, this is tiny dog going like a

788

: 00:39:37

Yorkie mix, I think was kind of bashing

about the dog park for four hours a

789

: 00:39:42

day and completely all over the place.

790

: 00:39:45

And when, when we sort of switched,

just switched to kind of sniffy walks

791

: 00:39:50

instead and that sort of stuff, dog

started sleeping a lot better, which

792

: 00:39:56

means they're self-regulating better.

793

: 00:39:58

And it's quite interesting

actually because back to what

794

: 00:40:02

you were sort of saying about

s sound sensitivity, was a dog.

795

: 00:40:06

We actually also did use some music for

it because they were incredibly sounds.

796

: 00:40:10

They, this dog would bark at everything.

797

: 00:40:14

The neighbors outside the,

the interesting thing was.

798

: 00:40:19

And I have discovered this with a lot

of dogs that during the training, the

799

: 00:40:23

home alone training, one of the lovely

side effects of it is, is that the

800

: 00:40:27

dog learns to self-regulate better.

801

: 00:40:30

And this dog, by the time that they got up

to an hour and a half or something, would,

802

: 00:40:36

you could see the, the dog sort of saying,

oh, there's something I used to bark at.

803

: 00:40:41

I don't have to be

bothered with that anymore.

804

: 00:40:44

and this dog literally

stopped barking at anything

805

: 00:40:49

for one rock, Viola who used to come

by garden in the evening once day.

806

: 00:40:57

Nobody knows how he knew this dog

was coming, but he would bark at him,

807

: 00:41:02

but then he could get himself out

of it and recover really quickly.

808

: 00:41:05

And that's a huge shift, you know?

809

: 00:41:08

So we said, okay, he can

bark at the rot viol.

810

: 00:41:10

He was, but he didn't

bark at anything else.

811

: 00:41:14

How amazing is that?

812

: 00:41:15

Right?

813

: 00:41:16

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

814

: 00:41:18

rosee: Yeah, so it's quite interesting

when you sort of think about the, the

815

: 00:41:21

white noise side of things and all that.

816

: 00:41:23

This can be really helpful.

817

: 00:41:25

But the most helpful thing is, is helping

the dog learn to think and self-regulate.

818

: 00:41:32

And that's

819

: 00:41:32

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.

820

: 00:41:32

rosee: lovely side effect of this

training I found, I found sort of

821

: 00:41:37

just by observation in the last years.

822

: 00:41:40

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

823

: 00:41:41

rosee: Yeah.

824

: 00:41:42

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Good.

825

: 00:41:43

How can guardians spot the

difference between good advice

826

: 00:41:48

and unqualified opinion online?

827

: 00:41:51

Rosee.

828

: 00:41:52

rosee: I dunno, you're

gonna help me with this.

829

: 00:41:55

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Well, I just think everyone thinks

830

: 00:41:56

they're an experts just because

like they've had dogs for 30 years.

831

: 00:42:00

It doesn't mean, you know, that's

what I think, you know, I'd, I'd

832

: 00:42:03

go, I'd be thinking along the lines.

833

: 00:42:07

rosee: I know you have to.

834

: 00:42:09

Well, I think we have

835

: 00:42:11

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Avoid all these, avoid all these

836

: 00:42:13

myths that we've mentioned.

837

: 00:42:15

rosee: Avoid all the myths.

838

: 00:42:17

I think the most important thing

really to capture to the chase is if

839

: 00:42:23

you, if your dog has this problem,

you need to get professional help.

840

: 00:42:27

You need somebody

841

: 00:42:28

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

842

: 00:42:28

rosee: a specialist in this.

843

: 00:42:29

You really do, because somebody

called this this issue is

844

: 00:42:35

Fears a behavioural emergency.

845

: 00:42:38

It is a behavioural emergency because of

the amount of distress it causes your dog.

846

: 00:42:44

If your dog has a broken leg, you're

not going to say, oh, I'll deal

847

: 00:42:49

with it sometime, you know, maybe

848

: 00:42:51

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: To the,

849

: 00:42:52

rosee: week.

850

: 00:42:53

Yeah.

851

: 00:42:53

And you are also not going to

go to your neighbor and say, or

852

: 00:42:57

somebody on Facebook say, can you

tell me how to mend my dog's leg?

853

: 00:43:01

Right.

854

: 00:43:02

I mean, nobody would think about that.

855

: 00:43:04

That is an emergency.

856

: 00:43:05

You need to go to the

clinic as fast as you can,

857

: 00:43:09

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

858

: 00:43:09

rosee: any other kind of emergency.

859

: 00:43:11

And so treat this as a behavioural

emergency, which means urgent and you need

860

: 00:43:20

somebody who knows what they're doing.

861

: 00:43:23

then it really doesn't

always take that long.

862

: 00:43:26

Yes, it takes a little bit

of patience and precision,

863

: 00:43:30

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

864

: 00:43:31

rosee: it's not gonna take as

long as if you don't do it.

865

: 00:43:35

And it's not gonna take as

long if you do it wrong.

866

: 00:43:37

Yeah.

867

: 00:43:38

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

868

: 00:43:39

rosee: As far as the internet and bad

information that we, we are all confronted

869

: 00:43:45

with it in so many different spheres.

870

: 00:43:48

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

871

: 00:43:50

rosee: Figure out a way.

872

: 00:43:52

And I think also being fair

and open is one of them.

873

: 00:43:56

I did, I don't do this very often, but I

did venture recently in a group, actually

874

: 00:44:03

it was a, a German language group.

875

: 00:44:05

And somebody came up with whatever they

came, one of these myths, I can't really

876

: 00:44:10

remember what it was now, but I think it

was putting a dog in a crate or something.

877

: 00:44:14

And I said, I am a specialist

in separation anxiety.

878

: 00:44:21

And you need a, a well executed

process of desensitization.

879

: 00:44:29

It's the only thing will help.

880

: 00:44:30

And then somebody came back

with, well, you are a specialist.

881

: 00:44:35

That's amazing.

882

: 00:44:36

It's amazing what what you can

be a specialist for these days.

883

: 00:44:42

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Oh gosh.

884

: 00:44:43

rosee: Well, a against that kind of

stubbornness and stupidity if you

885

: 00:44:50

like, you know, it's quite difficult

to, yeah, it is quite difficult.

886

: 00:44:57

But also there are really good

organizations now who who are certifying.

887

: 00:45:02

We, we belong to organizations which

certify that we are force free.

888

: 00:45:09

And I know it's difficult 'cause

it's an unregulated industry and,

889

: 00:45:15

and every anybody can claim to be

force free and do all sorts of stuff.

890

: 00:45:20

we do now have our certified separation

anxiety pro behaviour consultant,

891

: 00:45:28

which is what you and I both are.

892

: 00:45:30

And,

893

: 00:45:31

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

894

: 00:45:31

rosee: we.

895

: 00:45:32

For that.

896

: 00:45:32

I mean, that, that, that was a, a really

intensive and comprehensive training and

897

: 00:45:39

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: it was,

898

: 00:45:40

rosee: Yeah.

899

: 00:45:41

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

900

: 00:45:42

So, so seek out a professional

is what I took from that.

901

: 00:45:45

And I like behavioural emergencies,

so seek out a professional.

902

: 00:45:49

Don't go on to the local

Facebook community Queens.

903

: 00:45:53

Which actually might answer our next

question because it's, what do you

904

: 00:45:56

wish people knew before searching

for advice on Google or Instagram?

905

: 00:46:03

rosee: Well, they need to know that

this is a behavioural emergency and

906

: 00:46:05

it's not just I had a wonderful client

actually, and she was trained to be

907

: 00:46:10

a dog trainer, and she was, she was

really lovely person, but even she,

908

: 00:46:15

when her dog started doing this or she

adopted her dog, she thought that her

909

: 00:46:21

dog just didn't like being at home.

910

: 00:46:23

On her own.

911

: 00:46:24

She didn't realize until she came to me

the depth of this distress and the fear.

912

: 00:46:31

So I think the really important thing

is to take it seriously, isn't it?

913

: 00:46:35

And you

914

: 00:46:36

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

915

: 00:46:37

rosee: take this seriously and

find a professional and you know,

916

: 00:46:43

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Brilliant.

917

: 00:46:44

rosee: then

918

: 00:46:44

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Right?

919

: 00:46:45

rosee: it's the quickest way, isn't it?

920

: 00:46:47

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

921

: 00:46:49

Alright, so moving on to our

next section, which is the truth.

922

: 00:46:52

What actually helps, so what actually

helps dogs with sa, especially

923

: 00:46:59

those that seem stuck in panic mode?

924

: 00:47:03

rosee: Okay.

925

: 00:47:04

Well the first thing, the first challenge

that antibody has when they recognize

926

: 00:47:10

that their dog is distressed on their own,

is doing what we call managing absences.

927

: 00:47:17

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

928

: 00:47:17

rosee: that means effectively getting

yourself a support network people

929

: 00:47:24

that your dog feels comfortable

with and investing a bit of time.

930

: 00:47:29

You know, you can't just hand

the lead to someone and say,

931

: 00:47:32

okay, my dog feels comfortable.

932

: 00:47:33

They may, you know, some dogs cope

very well with being with other people,

933

: 00:47:37

but you might have to build that up.

934

: 00:47:39

Just like some children struggle a bit

to be left at kindergarten and they need

935

: 00:47:45

to be to be left at kindergarten and they

need a bit of time to get used to it.

936

: 00:47:49

Really good dog sitter or a dog

walker will also be quite empathetic

937

: 00:47:56

about how they take the dog.

938

: 00:47:59

You know, some dogs are really helped by.

939

: 00:48:03

If they go around the block together

and the caregiver leaves maybe in

940

: 00:48:08

the car and says goodbye and go, and

dog setter goes in with a dog and

941

: 00:48:14

spares the dogs the, the business

of their caregiver actually leaving.

942

: 00:48:19

That helps a lot of those times.

943

: 00:48:20

She's changing, changing the ritual as you

944

: 00:48:23

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm

945

: 00:48:24

rosee: looking for, you know,

how, what can I do to make this

946

: 00:48:28

as easy as possible for my dog?

947

: 00:48:30

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

948

: 00:48:31

rosee: managing absences is the

first thing because obviously the

949

: 00:48:37

more often you put your dog through

a fear episode, the worse you're

950

: 00:48:42

going to make the whole situation.

951

: 00:48:44

And in the end it's traumatizing.

952

: 00:48:46

You'll have a traumatized dog.

953

: 00:48:49

Also fear generalizes really quickly.

954

: 00:48:52

You can start with one fear.

955

: 00:48:55

And then you find that your dog is

becoming increasingly anxious and wary

956

: 00:48:59

and even fearful in other situations.

957

: 00:49:02

So we really don't wanna go there.

958

: 00:49:03

So once

959

: 00:49:05

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.

960

: 00:49:05

rosee: if your own sanity you need a

support network because otherwise you

961

: 00:49:09

really are a prisoner in your own home.

962

: 00:49:12

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

963

: 00:49:13

rosee: then,

964

: 00:49:15

and then we start the

process of desensitization.

965

: 00:49:19

It's really breaking down the process

of leaving through the door then

966

: 00:49:25

outside the door into tiny increments.

967

: 00:49:27

And I find that the long

work is often the door.

968

: 00:49:32

And once got outside the door and

the dog is truly chilled, you know,

969

: 00:49:38

we can't push them beyond what they

can do, then we start building up

970

: 00:49:42

the time and yeah, that's thrilling.

971

: 00:49:46

And we celebrate that, don't we?

972

: 00:49:49

We celebrate.

973

: 00:49:51

Every step of the way, because that

is one more step towards your dog

974

: 00:49:56

being able to live without fear.

975

: 00:49:59

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, yeah,

976

: 00:50:01

rosee: yeah, so that's

basically it, isn't it?

977

: 00:50:03

I mean, if you

978

: 00:50:04

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yeah.

979

: 00:50:05

rosee: which takes a little bit of

organization perhaps, but it doesn't

980

: 00:50:08

also have to be very expensive if you are

creative with maybe swapping dog sitting

981

: 00:50:16

or whatever, and then starting a process

of desensitization under the guidance

982

: 00:50:23

of a professional until you know how to

do it and you're not making mistakes,

983

: 00:50:29

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

984

: 00:50:30

rosee: worse.

985

: 00:50:31

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

For brilliant.

986

: 00:50:33

rosee: Yeah.

987

: 00:50:34

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

No, no worries.

988

: 00:50:36

So we should always celebrate the small

wins along the way no matter how small.

989

: 00:50:41

But why is consistency more powerful than

intensity when it comes to SA recovery?

990

: 00:50:47

Rosee a z.

991

: 00:50:49

rosee: Well, do you, if you

mean intensity, do you mean do

992

: 00:50:52

you mean doing things quickly

993

: 00:50:55

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, just like in like really

994

: 00:50:56

intensifying and like, you know,

throwing the kitchen, sink it or

995

: 00:51:01

whatever, and just hoping for the best.

996

: 00:51:03

I think you have to do, you have to be

more consistent with it and just break

997

: 00:51:07

it down into small bite-sized chunks.

998

: 00:51:10

Like you said, like five days a week,

half an hour a day, but rather than

999

: 00:51:14

going too mad, you need to take it

back a bit and be more consistent.

: 1000

00:51:20,802 --> 00:51:21,092

rosee: Yeah.

: 1001

00:51:21,977 --> 00:51:24,407

we've talked about pre predictability,

: 1002

00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:25,759

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

: 1003

00:51:26,117 --> 00:51:26,927

rosee: important for the dogs.

: 1004

00:51:26,927 --> 00:51:30,377

So something that happens sort of

five times a week or every, every day.

: 1005

00:51:30,377 --> 00:51:34,217

Well, this, we do all sorts of weird

things and that our dogs sort of.

: 1006

00:51:34,952 --> 00:51:35,462

Put up with that.

: 1007

00:51:35,702 --> 00:51:39,512

So we just kind of start this,

what I call a safe ritual.

: 1008

00:51:39,512 --> 00:51:44,192

What we're actually really doing with our

training is establishing in your dog's

: 1009

00:51:44,192 --> 00:51:48,452

life a safe ritual where they say, oh,

we're doing that boring thing again today.

: 1010

00:51:48,482 --> 00:51:51,602

Okay, I know about that I can do that.

: 1011

00:51:51,602 --> 00:51:55,172

And so we are doing that we

are thinking about leaving.

: 1012

00:51:56,432 --> 00:52:01,592

But our dog I think experiences

it as our coming back.

: 1013

00:52:01,592 --> 00:52:05,762

What we're actually practicing is when

I move, even if it's just standing

: 1014

00:52:05,762 --> 00:52:07,172

up and sitting down and so forth.

: 1015

00:52:07,442 --> 00:52:10,742

I'm coming back, I'm coming

back, I'm coming back.

: 1016

00:52:10,922 --> 00:52:13,172

There's also something go back to.

: 1017

00:52:13,452 --> 00:52:18,722

John Bradshaw, I read his book on

defensive dogs all that time ago when

: 1018

00:52:18,722 --> 00:52:25,562

I was trying to help my Greyhound, and

he said that we need to help our dogs

: 1019

00:52:25,622 --> 00:52:27,632

understand that we are coming back.

: 1020

00:52:27,692 --> 00:52:31,712

We are always thinking about leaving,

but they need to know what comes back,

: 1021

00:52:32,134 --> 00:52:33,124

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

That's a good point.

: 1022

00:52:33,487 --> 00:52:36,842

rosee: It is a bit of a sort of sideline,

but I think this is very interesting.

: 1023

00:52:37,652 --> 00:52:42,182

There's more and more thought

about, not necessarily

: 1024

00:52:42,332 --> 00:52:44,282

pathologizing, is that the word?

: 1025

00:52:45,992 --> 00:52:49,472

separation anxiety, you know,

to think it's like some, some

: 1026

00:52:49,472 --> 00:52:51,782

kind of massive aberration.

: 1027

00:52:52,082 --> 00:52:56,432

But actually if we think about

it, we've taken a species into

: 1028

00:52:56,432 --> 00:52:59,102

our homes, another species.

: 1029

00:53:00,122 --> 00:53:08,173

And this species, the dog is

incredibly adaptable, but they

: 1030

00:53:09,912 --> 00:53:12,642

delegated their survival to us.

: 1031

00:53:13,782 --> 00:53:18,672

And when we close the door, how

are they supposed to know that

: 1032

00:53:18,672 --> 00:53:20,412

we are ever coming back at all,

: 1033

00:53:21,314 --> 00:53:21,854

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm

: 1034

00:53:22,927 --> 00:53:24,402

rosee: or if we are coming back

: 1035

00:53:25,189 --> 00:53:25,269

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.

: 1036

00:53:25,902 --> 00:53:26,292

rosee: or if

: 1037

00:53:26,459 --> 00:53:26,749

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

: 1038

00:53:27,819 --> 00:53:28,109

Yeah.

: 1039

00:53:28,272 --> 00:53:28,692

rosee: with his.

: 1040

00:53:29,067 --> 00:53:34,497

Our training, we can teach dogs

that we are coming back and

: 1041

00:53:34,547 --> 00:53:36,107

they do learn it brilliantly.

: 1042

00:53:37,187 --> 00:53:41,867

noticed that there are different

kinds of intensities with the clients.

: 1043

00:53:42,107 --> 00:53:46,168

I've been doing this now for nearly

five years, pretty much exclusively.

: 1044

00:53:47,313 --> 00:53:50,877

I do locally at some o other

things, but sort of on the and I

: 1045

00:53:50,877 --> 00:53:57,207

have noticed that some dogs do in

fact really, really have a trauma.

: 1046

00:53:57,417 --> 00:53:59,127

Yeah, they have been shut in.

: 1047

00:53:59,908 --> 00:54:04,888

I had a client whose dog had been

shut in as a puppy and a young

: 1048

00:54:04,888 --> 00:54:10,528

dog by a man who used to leave on

business trips for several days at

: 1049

00:54:10,528 --> 00:54:12,627

a time leaving the dog in the house.

: 1050

00:54:13,107 --> 00:54:19,677

Okay, so when the dog was 18 months

old, he was confiscated from this

: 1051

00:54:20,067 --> 00:54:23,547

person and this dog was traumatized.

: 1052

00:54:23,577 --> 00:54:23,847

Okay.

: 1053

00:54:23,847 --> 00:54:25,677

So that's one scenario.

: 1054

00:54:26,157 --> 00:54:26,667

And

: 1055

00:54:26,759 --> 00:54:27,104

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: I may.

: 1056

00:54:27,477 --> 00:54:32,727

rosee: those sort of dogs, often need to

work together with a vet, a little bit

: 1057

00:54:32,727 --> 00:54:38,397

of anxiety medication to help to help

that dog have some kind of comfort zone.

: 1058

00:54:39,387 --> 00:54:39,867

Sort of.

: 1059

00:54:40,617 --> 00:54:44,187

are doing the training, but

even that dog learned as well.

: 1060

00:54:44,217 --> 00:54:44,547

Yeah.

: 1061

00:54:45,207 --> 00:54:49,737

But there are other dogs who,

and you can't seem to tell this,

: 1062

00:54:49,737 --> 00:54:51,207

I can't tell, tell beforehand.

: 1063

00:54:51,207 --> 00:54:55,937

You get a dog who's incredibly distressed

and, and really upset and all over the

: 1064

00:54:55,937 --> 00:54:59,687

place, and you start the training and

they take to it like a duck to water.

: 1065

00:55:00,947 --> 00:55:05,807

And they're like in, in a few weeks time,

the, the caregivers outside the door.

: 1066

00:55:05,807 --> 00:55:09,167

I'm like, I thought your dog

has separation anxiety that.

: 1067

00:55:10,758 --> 00:55:14,597

It can happen or I'm, I'm not

saying this happens in five days.

: 1068

00:55:14,597 --> 00:55:14,928

Right.

: 1069

00:55:15,408 --> 00:55:20,807

But like to get outside the door in

say a month or six weeks rock solid.

: 1070

00:55:20,897 --> 00:55:21,077

Yeah.

: 1071

00:55:21,077 --> 00:55:22,337

Without your dog reacting.

: 1072

00:55:22,337 --> 00:55:27,587

The way they did to me that it was

simply something the dog needed

: 1073

00:55:27,587 --> 00:55:35,028

to learn a skill that we need to

prioritize, like toilet training.

: 1074

00:55:36,078 --> 00:55:42,348

That is also quite delicate because people

have started and that's very praiseworthy

: 1075

00:55:42,738 --> 00:55:44,328

to try and prevent it happening.

: 1076

00:55:44,718 --> 00:55:48,108

And that means that often, you

know, they have a puppy or they've

: 1077

00:55:48,108 --> 00:55:49,817

just adopted a dog from a shelter.

: 1078

00:55:49,817 --> 00:55:55,488

Like I have, you know, spent six

years in, in a shopper and, and then,

: 1079

00:55:55,638 --> 00:55:56,898

oh, we need to practice leaving.

: 1080

00:55:56,898 --> 00:55:58,278

So we are leaving.

: 1081

00:55:58,368 --> 00:56:02,997

And, may be in a phase where your

dog needs more support, right?

: 1082

00:56:03,267 --> 00:56:09,637

So sometimes you need a little bit of a

fine feeling about what, how to go about

: 1083

00:56:09,637 --> 00:56:13,417

it with this particular dog, which is

another reason for getting professional,

: 1084

00:56:14,349 --> 00:56:14,639

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

: 1085

00:56:15,217 --> 00:56:16,987

rosee: differentiate these scenarios.

: 1086

00:56:18,157 --> 00:56:22,028

Yeah, I mean, in, in all the years

I've been doing this now, I've

: 1087

00:56:22,177 --> 00:56:26,917

never had a dog where the caregivers

have done the training, who hasn't

: 1088

00:56:26,917 --> 00:56:29,677

learned to feel safe alone at home.

: 1089

00:56:29,677 --> 00:56:31,957

I, I know that's

: 1090

00:56:32,119 --> 00:56:32,410

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

: 1091

00:56:32,633 --> 00:56:32,643

rosee: study.

: 1092

00:56:34,508 --> 00:56:35,648

It's a study one.

: 1093

00:56:37,388 --> 00:56:39,458

but up to now touch wood,

: 1094

00:56:41,588 --> 00:56:43,268

is, it's very successful.

: 1095

00:56:43,268 --> 00:56:44,228

So why not?

: 1096

00:56:45,008 --> 00:56:46,178

not do that for your dog?

: 1097

00:56:46,388 --> 00:56:46,898

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

: 1098

00:56:47,288 --> 00:56:47,798

Brilliant.

: 1099

00:56:48,348 --> 00:56:50,988

Moving on to our final section

then, which is just about

: 1100

00:56:50,988 --> 00:56:53,668

reframing the Guardian's role.

: 1101

00:56:54,057 --> 00:56:59,187

How can we help people reframe

the emotional rollercoaster

: 1102

00:56:59,187 --> 00:57:01,437

of supporting an anxious dog?

: 1103

00:57:04,961 --> 00:57:09,131

rosee: I'm glad you mentioned that

because sometimes the care, caregiver

: 1104

00:57:09,191 --> 00:57:11,561

is, is in a terrible situation.

: 1105

00:57:11,561 --> 00:57:14,801

It's, it's a hell of a shock

when you realize that your

: 1106

00:57:14,801 --> 00:57:16,971

dog can't be on their own.

: 1107

00:57:16,971 --> 00:57:21,111

I've been there, I know what it's like.

: 1108

00:57:24,621 --> 00:57:26,871

it takes a lot of organization.

: 1109

00:57:26,871 --> 00:57:30,291

It's an organizational

burden, if you like.

: 1110

00:57:30,391 --> 00:57:33,151

This, going back to Stevie,

my Greyhound, he couldn't even

: 1111

00:57:33,151 --> 00:57:34,801

stay with anybody else at first.

: 1112

00:57:36,886 --> 00:57:39,826

luckily he was sort of safe

in, he felt safe in the car,

: 1113

00:57:40,576 --> 00:57:41,956

and I was very privileged.

: 1114

00:57:42,141 --> 00:57:45,286

I, I was teaching at a

university so I could organize

: 1115

00:57:45,286 --> 00:57:47,866

my teaching time into blocks.

: 1116

00:57:48,766 --> 00:57:51,376

I was teaching for two hours

and then I would take him for

: 1117

00:57:51,376 --> 00:57:55,486

a walk, but it was minus 20.

: 1118

00:57:56,386 --> 00:58:02,506

It was a incredibly cold

winter here, I had wrapped.

: 1119

00:58:02,656 --> 00:58:04,756

This is not something I would

actually advise him with.

: 1120

00:58:05,176 --> 00:58:12,086

I had had him wrapped in a greyhound

fleece and then a deer hound fleece over

: 1121

00:58:12,086 --> 00:58:14,606

the top of and he felt safe in the car.

: 1122

00:58:14,606 --> 00:58:19,526

So that was, you know, okay, it's not

ideal, but it was the only option.

: 1123

00:58:19,526 --> 00:58:27,176

But I know what I, I lost a lot of weight

rushing around from teaching to the car

: 1124

00:58:27,176 --> 00:58:29,486

to homes and taking the dogs out from car,

: 1125

00:58:30,948 --> 00:58:31,578

Coming back to that.

: 1126

00:58:31,578 --> 00:58:34,218

I mean, it is a huge thing.

: 1127

00:58:34,818 --> 00:58:39,258

So we need to have a lot of

compassion for the caregivers

: 1128

00:58:40,938 --> 00:58:43,218

ze compassion for themselves.

: 1129

00:58:43,908 --> 00:58:46,728

It's a really good idea

not to bombard them.

: 1130

00:58:48,078 --> 00:58:53,088

With myths we're talking about like,

you know, it's all your fault you didn't

: 1131

00:58:53,088 --> 00:58:55,938

leave your, let your dog sleep on the bed.

: 1132

00:58:55,938 --> 00:59:00,468

If you weren't spoiling your dog, if

you weren't saying goodbye to your dog,

: 1133

00:59:01,083 --> 00:59:05,688

if you weren't ignoring if you would

only ignore your dog when you come

: 1134

00:59:05,688 --> 00:59:12,108

back and all the, all the we through

today and the caregiver knows in

: 1135

00:59:12,348 --> 00:59:14,508

instinctively, that's not gonna help.

: 1136

00:59:14,508 --> 00:59:16,638

My dog is in terrible the stress.

: 1137

00:59:17,028 --> 00:59:20,238

So they, they may feel guilty

on top of everything else.

: 1138

00:59:20,318 --> 00:59:20,588

Yeah,

: 1139

00:59:20,630 --> 00:59:20,850

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.

: 1140

00:59:21,698 --> 00:59:23,318

rosee: definitely not do that.

: 1141

00:59:23,888 --> 00:59:29,618

And then I, I do recommend setting up

a support network, get yourself support

: 1142

00:59:29,618 --> 00:59:35,288

by people who understand, not the

people who are saying, just leave them.

: 1143

00:59:36,337 --> 00:59:41,707

of, if you could say, I know

your dog has a serious fear you

: 1144

00:59:41,707 --> 00:59:44,078

are helping them get over it.

: 1145

00:59:44,107 --> 00:59:44,857

Well done

: 1146

00:59:44,970 --> 00:59:45,190

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm

: 1147

00:59:45,877 --> 00:59:46,147

rosee: Yeah.

: 1148

00:59:46,410 --> 00:59:46,630

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm.

: 1149

00:59:47,317 --> 00:59:51,788

rosee: I have a client, I had

a client recently just left

: 1150

00:59:51,877 --> 00:59:54,667

recently for all the best reasons

'cause they're really successful.

: 1151

00:59:54,968 --> 00:59:56,828

They tried for five years.

: 1152

00:59:57,548 --> 00:59:57,937

Yeah,

: 1153

00:59:58,960 --> 00:59:59,180

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

: 1154

00:59:59,707 --> 01:00:00,428

rosee: mentioned at the beginning.

: 1155

01:00:00,428 --> 01:00:01,658

Five, five years.

: 1156

01:00:01,658 --> 01:00:02,018

So

: 1157

01:00:02,330 --> 01:00:02,620

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

: 1158

01:00:03,368 --> 01:00:05,138

rosee: incredibly dedicated.

: 1159

01:00:05,867 --> 01:00:07,997

And also they're under a lot of pressure.

: 1160

01:00:08,297 --> 01:00:16,147

You can be, for example the butt of

neighbor's complaints, even court cases.

: 1161

01:00:16,208 --> 01:00:16,958

If your dog has

: 1162

01:00:16,980 --> 01:00:17,270

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

: 1163

01:00:18,578 --> 01:00:23,688

rosee: you can be under pressure from

the landlord that if you don't sort this

: 1164

01:00:23,748 --> 01:00:25,968

problem out, you're going to lose home.

: 1165

01:00:26,660 --> 01:00:27,230

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

yeah, yeah.

: 1166

01:00:28,218 --> 01:00:28,788

rosee: Had that.

: 1167

01:00:29,763 --> 01:00:34,038

I've, I've had caregivers come to

me who are absolutely distraught.

: 1168

01:00:35,528 --> 01:00:38,648

It's so to reframe it,

it's not your fault.

: 1169

01:00:40,268 --> 01:00:40,478

And

: 1170

01:00:40,610 --> 01:00:40,830

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm

: 1171

01:00:41,288 --> 01:00:46,028

rosee: thing is we can reliably

help your dog with the right

: 1172

01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:46,330

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

: 1173

01:00:47,318 --> 01:00:49,838

rosee: And I think that's really cool.

: 1174

01:00:49,838 --> 01:00:51,698

And that's why I'm so passionate about it.

: 1175

01:00:51,748 --> 01:00:55,978

You asked me right at the beginning,

so passionate about educating Miss?

: 1176

01:00:56,278 --> 01:01:01,918

That's why does Miss make it worse for

everybody, for the dog and the caregiver?

: 1177

01:01:03,105 --> 01:01:03,735

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Definitely.

: 1178

01:01:04,105 --> 01:01:06,925

What would be your advice for

someone who feels like they've

: 1179

01:01:06,925 --> 01:01:08,905

tried everything in inverted comm?

: 1180

01:01:11,498 --> 01:01:17,798

rosee: Well, they've probably been

trying all the things that make it worse.

: 1181

01:01:17,798 --> 01:01:18,018

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

: 1182

01:01:23,186 --> 01:01:27,836

rosee: I dunno, it's very difficult to

say because if, if you mean that they've

: 1183

01:01:27,836 --> 01:01:32,216

been to lots of different trainers

who have given them the wrong advice,

: 1184

01:01:32,216 --> 01:01:38,606

then all I can say is I'm terribly

sorry that that has happened to you

: 1185

01:01:38,606 --> 01:01:40,346

and that you are experiencing this.

: 1186

01:01:40,446 --> 01:01:40,736

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

: 1187

01:01:42,254 --> 01:01:42,734

rosee: but

: 1188

01:01:44,864 --> 01:01:52,124

it's unlikely that they have tried a, a

very well done process of desensitization

: 1189

01:01:52,886 --> 01:01:53,106

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm

: 1190

01:01:53,144 --> 01:01:57,854

rosee: if it's done correctly,

there is no reason that their dog

: 1191

01:01:57,854 --> 01:02:02,204

should be exempt from natural laws.

: 1192

01:02:02,984 --> 01:02:06,854

They, their dog can learn this

just like every other dog can.

: 1193

01:02:06,876 --> 01:02:07,096

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm

: 1194

01:02:08,144 --> 01:02:08,384

rosee: So

: 1195

01:02:08,416 --> 01:02:08,706

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

: 1196

01:02:08,949 --> 01:02:14,514

rosee: I, I would say is that

try this, try the way we do

: 1197

01:02:14,796 --> 01:02:15,086

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah,

: 1198

01:02:15,204 --> 01:02:16,134

rosee: I'm really sorry.

: 1199

01:02:16,509 --> 01:02:22,929

They've been through a lot of a,

a lot of bad advice, most likely.

: 1200

01:02:23,139 --> 01:02:23,439

You know,

: 1201

01:02:23,826 --> 01:02:24,196

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

yeah, yeah.

: 1202

01:02:24,879 --> 01:02:25,239

rosee: the other

: 1203

01:02:25,416 --> 01:02:25,636

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: All.

: 1204

01:02:25,659 --> 01:02:29,409

rosee: takes it, I think it's

really, it's really important.

: 1205

01:02:29,409 --> 01:02:32,319

I think one of the reasons that I

have a lot of success is because I

: 1206

01:02:32,319 --> 01:02:38,079

have a lot of experience in general

with, with anxious and fearful dogs.

: 1207

01:02:38,079 --> 01:02:42,309

Dogs from a deprivation background,

traumatized dogs, and so, so on.

: 1208

01:02:42,699 --> 01:02:47,574

So one of the things that can be holding

your dog back when you think you're,

: 1209

01:02:47,579 --> 01:02:52,029

you're doing everything but it's not

working, are other stressors, right?

: 1210

01:02:52,029 --> 01:02:56,829

So the, so we need to really look

at the whole dog all the time.

: 1211

01:02:57,431 --> 01:02:57,651

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

: 1212

01:02:57,699 --> 01:03:01,029

rosee: dog is just separation

and anxiety on legs.

: 1213

01:03:01,329 --> 01:03:06,409

There can be other things playing

into this, like pain issues.

: 1214

01:03:06,661 --> 01:03:06,951

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

: 1215

01:03:07,624 --> 01:03:13,034

rosee: Help lots of dogs get help

for un undiagnosed pain issues.

: 1216

01:03:13,663 --> 01:03:19,139

For example a a client recently had

discovered that their dog is barking a lot

: 1217

01:03:19,199 --> 01:03:21,989

because it distracts them from the pain.

: 1218

01:03:22,841 --> 01:03:23,131

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

: 1219

01:03:24,031 --> 01:03:24,321

Yeah.

: 1220

01:03:24,779 --> 01:03:26,639

rosee: so look at this.

: 1221

01:03:26,689 --> 01:03:29,719

I think we mentioned that the dog

where we changed the way they were

: 1222

01:03:29,719 --> 01:03:35,779

being exercised, so they're not sort of

doing this high octane or high arousal

: 1223

01:03:35,809 --> 01:03:38,179

exercise for four hours in the dog park.

: 1224

01:03:38,269 --> 01:03:42,589

But those of sniffy walks,

sometimes very small changes make

: 1225

01:03:42,589 --> 01:03:46,159

an enormous difference to, a dog.

: 1226

01:03:46,259 --> 01:03:48,029

Looking at dog's, body language.

: 1227

01:03:48,129 --> 01:03:48,799

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Definitely.

: 1228

01:03:49,262 --> 01:03:53,382

rosee: at the moment who found,

you know, tried everything and

: 1229

01:03:53,382 --> 01:03:55,452

their dog was incredibly restless.

: 1230

01:03:57,042 --> 01:03:59,682

I said, we have to take this.

: 1231

01:04:00,062 --> 01:04:01,682

Know this is just something he does.

: 1232

01:04:01,682 --> 01:04:05,962

He's sort of this with his face

and it's just, and he's doing

: 1233

01:04:05,962 --> 01:04:10,552

something strange with his mouth

and, it's just something he does.

: 1234

01:04:10,912 --> 01:04:13,732

But then I said, I don't think

this is just something he does.

: 1235

01:04:13,732 --> 01:04:15,352

He's got a reason for this.

: 1236

01:04:15,352 --> 01:04:21,442

And we discovered, after much soul

searching and going apart from the

: 1237

01:04:21,442 --> 01:04:27,412

fact that he did have pain issues,

he also had ingrowing eyelashes.

: 1238

01:04:28,194 --> 01:04:28,484

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Okay.

: 1239

01:04:28,629 --> 01:04:29,109

Yeah,

: 1240

01:04:29,602 --> 01:04:33,892

rosee: And which apparently is,

is in certain breeds a, a thing

: 1241

01:04:34,089 --> 01:04:35,589

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

I, I only heard about that

: 1242

01:04:35,589 --> 01:04:36,699

the other day actually.

: 1243

01:04:36,997 --> 01:04:37,537

rosee: Yeah.

: 1244

01:04:37,667 --> 01:04:39,167

Particularly adolescents, right?

: 1245

01:04:39,167 --> 01:04:42,677

And this dog is sort of coming

up to adolescents and, and it was

: 1246

01:04:42,677 --> 01:04:44,177

like, oh, you'll have to operate.

: 1247

01:04:44,177 --> 01:04:48,407

And, and they found this brilliant

eye specialist who says, no,

: 1248

01:04:48,407 --> 01:04:49,907

we, we don't operate on this.

: 1249

01:04:50,117 --> 01:04:51,017

I can help you.

: 1250

01:04:51,617 --> 01:04:56,717

And that, that is also

really, really I important.

: 1251

01:04:56,717 --> 01:05:00,257

If you've tried everything,

really, everything, either you

: 1252

01:05:00,257 --> 01:05:01,907

are following the wrong advice,

: 1253

01:05:03,917 --> 01:05:07,277

probably you, you have been

given the wrong advice.

: 1254

01:05:07,967 --> 01:05:14,057

Or to look more closely also at

your dogs, other needs and stresses

: 1255

01:05:14,507 --> 01:05:19,127

where we can take away anything that

stresses your dog unnecessarily.

: 1256

01:05:19,457 --> 01:05:22,157

We are giving them back more resources

: 1257

01:05:22,934 --> 01:05:23,154

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm

: 1258

01:05:23,327 --> 01:05:27,197

rosee: think clearly, to

learn, to self-regulate,

: 1259

01:05:28,404 --> 01:05:28,624

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: mm

: 1260

01:05:29,117 --> 01:05:31,157

rosee: to live a more relaxed life, right?

: 1261

01:05:31,368 --> 01:05:31,879

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

: 1262

01:05:32,569 --> 01:05:33,139

Brilliant.

: 1263

01:05:33,319 --> 01:05:36,078

Gosh, we've literally

sailed through this episode.

: 1264

01:05:36,078 --> 01:05:40,729

It literally, it's been jam packed

full of information like it is.

: 1265

01:05:40,908 --> 01:05:42,679

Oh, my mind's buzzing.

: 1266

01:05:42,859 --> 01:05:45,139

So we're just gonna spend the

next couple of minutes wrapping

: 1267

01:05:45,139 --> 01:05:46,879

up before we bring it to a close.

: 1268

01:05:47,118 --> 01:05:50,019

So a final question for you, Rosee.

: 1269

01:05:50,299 --> 01:05:54,499

What's the one myth you wish we

could wipe off the internet forever?

: 1270

01:05:57,557 --> 01:05:58,037

rosee: Well,

: 1271

01:06:00,047 --> 01:06:03,107

it is difficult to choose one because if

: 1272

01:06:03,304 --> 01:06:03,844

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: So many.

: 1273

01:06:04,637 --> 01:06:04,787

rosee: Yeah.

: 1274

01:06:06,317 --> 01:06:10,937

Well, no, because it, whatever,

whatever myth you, you are following,

: 1275

01:06:11,267 --> 01:06:13,577

you are damaging your dog, right?

: 1276

01:06:13,697 --> 01:06:14,207

So,

: 1277

01:06:14,314 --> 01:06:14,974

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm

: 1278

01:06:15,346 --> 01:06:19,007

rosee: but I think if I had to

choose one, it would definitely

: 1279

01:06:19,007 --> 01:06:22,007

be not creating your dog.

: 1280

01:06:22,757 --> 01:06:27,157

The reason it's illegal in Austria,

not, not not only in Austria, by the

: 1281

01:06:27,157 --> 01:06:30,967

way, more and more countries are making

this illegal, even if you're at home by

: 1282

01:06:30,967 --> 01:06:37,732

the way is because it is not no longer

considered really adequate welfare.

: 1283

01:06:38,703 --> 01:06:38,924

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm.

: 1284

01:06:39,732 --> 01:06:41,877

rosee: 'cause dogs are

polyphasic sleepers.

: 1285

01:06:41,877 --> 01:06:46,467

So, one of the five free

freedoms, I think is the freedom

: 1286

01:06:46,467 --> 01:06:48,596

to practice natural behaviour.

: 1287

01:06:48,687 --> 01:06:53,787

And dog will sleep in

phases and move around.

: 1288

01:06:53,787 --> 01:06:55,167

Everybody sees this for their dog.

: 1289

01:06:55,167 --> 01:06:58,767

They move around during,

you know, between phases.

: 1290

01:06:58,882 --> 01:07:03,492

They they do that also for

temperature regulation and they

: 1291

01:07:03,492 --> 01:07:06,012

can only get into deep restorative.

: 1292

01:07:06,792 --> 01:07:12,882

Sleep, this sort of REM

sleep, I think when they're to

: 1293

01:07:13,182 --> 01:07:15,012

stretch their paws out flat.

: 1294

01:07:15,272 --> 01:07:22,662

So, there are various reasons why

it's illegal here to keep your dog

: 1295

01:07:22,721 --> 01:07:29,262

in a crate it's the purposes of a

medical recovering from a medical

: 1296

01:07:29,262 --> 01:07:32,862

procedure or for travel safety.

: 1297

01:07:33,672 --> 01:07:38,442

But it also, I think this is something

that people don't think about very much.

: 1298

01:07:38,552 --> 01:07:43,142

I prevents your dog really learning the

skills they need to live in your home.

: 1299

01:07:45,182 --> 01:07:45,602

Yeah.

: 1300

01:07:46,382 --> 01:07:50,852

And if, if you need to, if you have,

for example, a puppy and you need to

: 1301

01:07:50,852 --> 01:07:54,182

keep them safe for certain times or

you haven't got that, your eyes on them

: 1302

01:07:54,422 --> 01:08:00,932

all the time, it's really better to use

a puppy pan or to puppy proof a room.

: 1303

01:08:02,114 --> 01:08:02,334

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Mm,

: 1304

01:08:02,942 --> 01:08:07,971

rosee: And yeah, so I think it's, it

is probably the crate, but the crate

: 1305

01:08:07,971 --> 01:08:10,132

is also allied to everything else.

: 1306

01:08:10,132 --> 01:08:14,542

It's allied to the, the idea

of letting them cry it out.

: 1307

01:08:14,542 --> 01:08:16,102

Just putting them in there and

: 1308

01:08:16,202 --> 01:08:17,471

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

using it as a punishment.

: 1309

01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:18,680

rosee: yeah.

: 1310

01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:19,045

Or, or,

: 1311

01:08:19,551 --> 01:08:19,631

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Hmm.

: 1312

01:08:19,670 --> 01:08:21,319

rosee: just our own convenience.

: 1313

01:08:21,319 --> 01:08:26,000

I mean, yes, it may stop the dog

taking the flat apart or your

: 1314

01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:30,649

sofa apart, just think of what

that dog's actually going through.

: 1315

01:08:30,700 --> 01:08:31,060

Yeah.

: 1316

01:08:31,107 --> 01:08:31,557

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Okay.

: 1317

01:08:32,397 --> 01:08:32,907

Brilliant.

: 1318

01:08:33,027 --> 01:08:36,301

Alright, so Rosee, where

can people connect with you?

: 1319

01:08:36,892 --> 01:08:39,506

Join your group or access your training?

: 1320

01:08:41,390 --> 01:08:45,859

rosee: Well, they can, the, the best

way really is to go to my website.

: 1321

01:08:46,069 --> 01:08:47,930

I have a shiny new website.

: 1322

01:08:48,447 --> 01:08:48,867

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: You do?

: 1323

01:08:50,779 --> 01:08:52,399

rosee: Good dog practice come.

: 1324

01:08:53,240 --> 01:08:56,300

I said, I can't even remember what I,

what the name of my business is now.

: 1325

01:08:56,710 --> 01:08:58,479

Good Dog Practice come.

: 1326

01:08:59,466 --> 01:08:59,756

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

: 1327

01:09:00,279 --> 01:09:04,660

rosee: and that is to separation fears.

: 1328

01:09:05,559 --> 01:09:09,640

So that's the easiest way because

from there you can also find your,

: 1329

01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:17,350

your way to me on Facebook or on

Instagram and something really exciting.

: 1330

01:09:17,350 --> 01:09:19,870

It's just the first

person to hear about this.

: 1331

01:09:19,870 --> 01:09:21,490

Hot off the press is that

: 1332

01:09:21,636 --> 01:09:21,857

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yes.

: 1333

01:09:21,880 --> 01:09:28,649

rosee: been invited Libe Bog Deva,

who is the founder and director

: 1334

01:09:28,649 --> 01:09:37,035

of the Nordic Center for Ethical

Dog Training Lead a forum to host

: 1335

01:09:37,035 --> 01:09:40,095

a forum in her care community.

: 1336

01:09:40,635 --> 01:09:46,604

There's a care community of

trainers and dog owners who can ask

: 1337

01:09:46,604 --> 01:09:48,345

questions and support each other.

: 1338

01:09:48,615 --> 01:09:53,444

It's an incredibly knowledgeable

group, and in there I have like

: 1339

01:09:53,565 --> 01:09:59,115

a forum about separation fears

where I can answer questions.

: 1340

01:09:59,745 --> 01:10:00,105

But we

: 1341

01:10:00,147 --> 01:10:00,347

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: Yeah.

: 1342

01:10:00,795 --> 01:10:05,955

rosee: also really to define that I can

only answer very general questions, but

: 1343

01:10:05,955 --> 01:10:12,635

people who want to work with me then do

get very generous rebates on my programs.

: 1344

01:10:13,085 --> 01:10:17,615

So I think we, it'll pop the links below.

: 1345

01:10:18,652 --> 01:10:19,342

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour: yes.

: 1346

01:10:20,932 --> 01:10:22,537

Yeah, the links would

be in the show notes.

: 1347

01:10:23,270 --> 01:10:27,110

rosee: Yeah, a student who did this,

who used to be a model actually,

: 1348

01:10:27,110 --> 01:10:31,490

and an acting student used to be

a model and he would always, he

: 1349

01:10:31,490 --> 01:10:33,140

would always say the links below.

: 1350

01:10:34,267 --> 01:10:37,117

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Yeah, so, oh yeah, all the links will

: 1351

01:10:37,117 --> 01:10:41,347

be in the show notes and they'll be

on the Yappy website as well, so we'll

: 1352

01:10:41,347 --> 01:10:45,157

make sure they're all included and

they'll be on the various platforms.

: 1353

01:10:45,587 --> 01:10:49,777

Rosee Riggss, thank you so

much for joining me on the

: 1354

01:10:49,777 --> 01:10:52,317

Yappy Hour, powered by Yappily.

: 1355

01:10:52,627 --> 01:10:55,387

I've absolutely loved our

conversation today, and I'm

: 1356

01:10:55,387 --> 01:10:57,787

sure our listeners will as well.

: 1357

01:10:58,057 --> 01:10:59,317

Thank you for your time.

: 1358

01:11:00,020 --> 01:11:00,590

rosee: Thank you so

: 1359

01:11:00,612 --> 01:11:01,482

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Thank you so much.

: 1360

01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:02,420

rosee: Thank you.

: 1361

01:11:03,222 --> 01:11:04,082

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

You're most welcome.

: 1362

01:11:04,670 --> 01:11:06,380

rosee: so many dogs and people.

: 1363

01:11:06,559 --> 01:11:07,070

Thank you

: 1364

01:11:07,582 --> 01:11:08,482

Nathan Dunleavy - The Yappy Hour:

Oh, you're most welcome.

: 1365

01:11:08,612 --> 01:11:09,577

Thank you very much.

: 1366

01:11:09,782 --> 01:11:10,002

Hot.

: 1367

01:11:11,885 --> 01:11:12,105

rosee: so.

: 1368

01:11:14,231 --> 01:11:18,761

That was such a brilliant and

empowering chat with Rosee Riggs.

: 1369

01:11:18,911 --> 01:11:22,151

Here are some key takeaways

from today's episode.

: 1370

01:11:22,691 --> 01:11:28,451

Number one, separation anxiety is not

your fault and it's not something you can

: 1371

01:11:28,451 --> 01:11:31,216

fix with crates, cameras, or quick fixes.

: 1372

01:11:31,796 --> 01:11:35,736

Number two, most quick tips online.

: 1373

01:11:36,076 --> 01:11:38,836

Don't work and can make things worse.

: 1374

01:11:39,466 --> 01:11:43,606

Compassion, patience, and

evidence-based training are key.

: 1375

01:11:44,266 --> 01:11:47,236

Number three, you don't

need to be perfect.

: 1376

01:11:47,326 --> 01:11:49,546

You just need to be consistent.

: 1377

01:11:49,876 --> 01:11:52,936

Progress over perfection every time.

: 1378

01:11:53,596 --> 01:11:54,076

Number four.

: 1379

01:11:54,741 --> 01:11:57,651

Qualified support can be a game changer.

: 1380

01:11:58,011 --> 01:12:00,051

You don't have to do it alone.

: 1381

01:12:00,601 --> 01:12:01,201

Rosee.

: 1382

01:12:01,221 --> 01:12:05,781

Thank you for challenging the myths

and giving people permission to support

: 1383

01:12:05,781 --> 01:12:08,541

their dogs with empathy, not shame.

: 1384

01:12:08,901 --> 01:12:11,211

If you'd like to learn

more, please check out.

: 1385

01:12:11,896 --> 01:12:14,386

Good dog practice.com

: 1386

01:12:14,746 --> 01:12:19,156

or find Rosee's community

on Facebook and Instagram.

: 1387

01:12:19,726 --> 01:12:24,166

And if this episode has helped you,

please consider leaving a review,

: 1388

01:12:24,466 --> 01:12:30,286

subscribe and share it with someone who's

navigating life with an anxious dog.

: 1389

01:12:30,796 --> 01:12:34,426

This has been the yappy hour,

and I'll see you next time.

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