Summary:

In this episode of "In The Bunker," Frank Schieber, Sr. Demand Generation Manager at Virtusa, shares his personal journey of overcoming employment gaps and the challenges of staying ahead in the fast-paced world of marketing. Frank discusses how he refined and defined his role in the industry, offering valuable insights and advice for those navigating similar career challenges.

Our episode highlights:

• Frank’s experience with employment gaps and the stigma associated with them.
• His approach to evolving and adapting in the field of marketing and demand generation.
• Strategies Frank used to overcome his biggest business challenges.
• Frank's advice for individuals currently facing career challenges, emphasizing continuous learning, self-definition, and the importance of a strong support system.

Bio:

Frank Schieber is a metro Atlanta-based marketing expert with a wealth of experience in campaign strategy, management, communications, and analytics for B2B technology brands and select non-profit organizations. He is an influential figure in the field, known for his innovative approaches to marketing and demand generation. Frank holds a Master of Business Administration from Kennesaw State University and a Bachelor of Arts in Journalism from The University of Georgia. His academic accolades also include Data Science and Data Analytics certifications from General Assembly. Additionally, Frank serves as Vice President and Board Director for The Carnegie Writers, a Nashville-based volunteer non-profit organization.

Links:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/frankschieber
• Website: https://www.frankschieber.com
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/frank.schieber/
• IG: https://www.instagram.com/frankschieber/

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Welcome back to in the bunker.

Every business owner has faced challenges and we love to share those stories.

Today.

We have Frank Schieber in the bunker with us.

Frank has been faced with the challenge of gaps in full-time and full-time

employment, and really the stigmatism that has been associated with those gaps.

There's so much to talk about and unpack here.

As both, an entrepreneur or someone who's employed, there's so many

elements around this stigmatism.

I'm super excited to jump in and chat with Frank.

Welcome to the show, Frank.

Thank you, Joshua.

I appreciate it.

So let's get to know you a little bit.

Who are you?

How'd you get here?

What are you?

I've been in B2B marketing for more than 20 years

now, specifically B2B technology marketing for nearly 10 years.

My current role is senior demand generation manager, which frankly

demand generation didn't even exist as a role until I would say

probably the last seven years.

pRobably sounds about right.

As as account-based marketing was starting to become a buzz word and buzz phrase

that was carried through companies like Terminus and others that were

preaching the notion of being smarter about B2B marketing through better tar.

And I'm the senior demand generation manager for a company

called core business technologies.

I just started that role just on just 10 days ago.

And and I'm still learning the ribs there.

It's a FinTech company.

So financial technologies that will.

But mainly payment processing and merchant services for city and

county governments and healthcare.

That said I've worked at a variety of different different technology

firms everything from GPS based vehicle fleet tracking and managing.

tO information security which include government governor GRC, which has

governance, risk management and compliance solutions worked with a webinar

and video collaboration technology.

And and I just liked the, I just liked the B2B technology world a lot.

I just think it's very fascinating.

And I feel like I feel like I'm getting better.

And try these different little niches of technol of marketing technology in

terms of B2B technology, rather, but in terms of marketing, I've always wanted

to do demand gen and try different areas and always want to try FinTech.

And it's a nice it's a nice adventure and we're going to see how it goes.

Awesome.

Awesome.

Yeah, it's funny.

As you're talking through, like some of the different roles, you've had a

lot of it how those industries are.

I would refer to as like behind the scenes stuff, like the general

consumer doesn't even realize, like any of that stuff exists or happens

or any of that type of stuff.

Like GPS fleet tracking, yeah.

Every Amazon truck and ups truck is tracked, but you don't necessarily

think about it until they can't find your package for three weeks.

So obviously we're chatting about the stigmatism around.

Just an employment gap.

In that aspect what does that look like for you?

What, what did that look like from, the employment you have had and those gaps?

I'm not sure.

The as far as as far as the employment gaps I'll be candid.

They are.

Occasionally terrifying.

I prefer to work full time.

I prefer to be productive and I am not a big fan of being

productive and not making money.

wHich is what often occurs in the employment and employment gaps scenario.

I think there may be a tendency for those that are employed to

think of an employment gap and.

That's something where, while that person's just either taking

vacations, doing road tripping or or or just, or sitting on their Duff,

just drinking a can of course, light and watching baseball games and.

The reality is that can't be further from the truth and the people that

I have known who have gone through gone through employment gaps,

regardless of the length of time, they're actively looking for work.

And that is and they're in there more often than not.

I won't say everybody because I deal in probabilities, not absolutes.

One of my things I love about my mantra is I love this.

It is is that most of the people that I've known who are seeking

work, are they're pursuing it like a full-time full-time role unto itself.

And it is challenging for sure.

Especially doing something like what I do the role is there are

a lot of roles out there, but you also have to kiss a lot of fraud.

And likewise, they're going to think the same of you as well.

It's just like dating, you, you may like a company and the company

may like you initially, and then they may go with another candidate.

And vice versa, a company might like you and you might be, you might just feel

like you're not necessarily the right fit for the role due to cultural fit.

Or or where they're at as an organization that you think might

be limiting towards your growth.

Those sorts of things are very real.

And so you have to be able to, so it takes time to be able to find that right

to find even if it's not going to be 100% fit, which there never really is.

It takes time to find that one.

That's going to be an 80 to 90%.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, as you're talking about like the aspect of.

People think unemployment is like all I pictures.

Like some guy it's the meme of what people think unemployment is.

And you're like skipping through a field, like I'm on vacation.

And then what employment, actual unemployment actually is.

It's like pulling your hair out and trying to figure out, how

are you affording lunch tomorrow?

And yeah, I think that's a huge stress, both for people who are looking for a

full-time job, but also entrepreneur, maybe it's someone who is a contractor and

they're trying to figure out where their next renovation project is coming from.

Or, there's so many different elements and not just full-time and full-time

employment, but I think also, people who own their own business

as well are facing that same issue.

Yeah.

The aspect of trying to understand that not every job that's posted

is going to be a good fit.

So many people don't realize that they're like, oh, I'll just apply for,

two or three and I'll get one of them.

And it's you should apply for 40 or 50 and find the ones that are a good fit.

Find the one that is.

That job that you want to be there for the next five years, not something that

you are going to regret in 90 days.

Because then you're going to be back at square one and

trying to figure this all out.

It's

the other thing is too, and this is something that's worth

mentioning is, and this is just a cold, hard reality is as much as careerist

as we want to be about our profession, about our work, our profession, if

you're really serious about being a serious professional in your career

and, life can and will get in the way.

We all have to eat and.

And there's times when you may want to find a, if you're having a tough time

finding finding a job, whether it's the.

For whatever crazy reason.

There's there should be no no harm, no foul.

If you take a job at a supermarket or a fast food restaurant

or whatever, it may be.

Just to pay the bills till you find that role that that you want, that is that

is worth spot, that is worth binding.

And conversely, it shouldn't be frowned upon if you are doing that sort of

thing, because you're trying to make your you're just trying to survive.

You're trying to, perhaps even not only for yourself, but also.

Take care of others.

It's a work on work unto itself is its own reward in terms of being able

to engage with others to be able to gather some life experiences, to be

able to gain new skills and apply them wherever you go, it shouldn't

be it shouldn't be held against you.

I recently heard a couple of folks on this marketing technology, marketing,

social, a group that I belong to, and they're like some of the best people we

buy have her hired wood were just, they were wait, they were waiters or they were.

Bellhops and they were just looking to get there just to get a break.

And then they got a break and there, they finally get the brick and they crushed

their jobs in coding or engineering or product marketing or whatever it is

because they're there, they're hungry.

They want to do the best job they can.

And they just need someone to give them a shot.

Yeah.

Yep.

Absolutely.

I actually have a friend who's a business owner and.

Has talked about getting a chance to people who work.

And he's these are people who, if you want someone for like sales or even

like project management, you get one guy who's running a bar and he's keeping

track of 30 or 40 different people.

What drinks they're having.

Who's where, as people switch tables or spots at the bar to

keep those tabs open and make sure that, they all get closed out.

So it doesn't come out of his check at the end of the day.

He's building relationships.

That person is working at the bar.

They're building relationships with every customer who comes in, remembering

who they are, all that type of stuff.

Cause that means some guy walks in.

You remember the dude's name and what he likes to.

That may mean, double a tip.

And that's not a bad thing.

And so those are the types of things that those are so many soft

skill elements that employers don't necessarily put down on a resume.

But I think that are super beneficial to anybody who is hiring.

And it's not a bad thing to.

To utilize find those skills that, the business needs to fill and find

them maybe in a different industry.

And then cross.

Absolutely.

There's an old adage.

That's be nice to the janitor because the janitor knows more about

the business than anybody else.

And granted, I don't get to deal with janitors in my current office right now

knowing, because I'm working from home.

I think people in in my profession in 2022 I think the principle behind

that still still serves well, do not underestimate anybody for the role that

they're currently playing because that person that you may be underestimating

Right now may be the person that that could be that a few years now

it could be doing incredible things.

Look at Tyler Perry for goodness sakes, and the guy was sleeping in his car.

And now, now he knows like a film studio in Georgia is hundreds of millions

of dollars each just never know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

For sure.

I think that lines up with the aspect of, what we're talking about is.

You know that gap in employment like that gap might be the

break might need and break.

As in stepping away from work, it might be the ability for that person to clear their

head, have a sense of where am I going?

Is that the career path you want?

Whether it's to change career paths or change education paths or

whatever that might be, that gap is not necessarily always a bad thing.

And

so I happen to agree all in I had a gap between in fact it

was my second serious gap in employment, and that was between between April.

And I can say, I should clarify between full-time employment.

I was doing some contract work between April of 2016, through June of 2019, I

was able to find a handful of contract gigs with arthritis foundation,

which was a fabulous role rent half a company that's no longer in existence

called see me, they got sold to DXC.

The and then I had a couple of other minor companies.

I helped out as well startups.

And but during that time it was I hit it.

I hit a proverbial cross records.

I didn't know if.

Any more road for me in the marketing profession time, the

diet, the times were changing.

The dynamics was changing.

The technology was changing.

The demographic makeup of the profession was changing.

I wasn't too sure.

I was having a tough time finding it was interviewing with companies that wanted to

interview with and not landing the jobs.

I was really unsure about which way things were going.

So I made it a point to take a step back and go, okay.

I think I'm going to, I'm going to just take a bit of a

sabbatical and studying something.

And I decided to study something that was going, that I felt knew was going to be

that was going to be a growing profession.

And that if I entered that profession, that I could make

some serious coin doing that.

And if I did enter that profession, that.

Augment what I already do very well.

And so I started studying data analytics in June of 2017

and through August of 2017.

And then I enjoyed that enough to be able to, because I wanted to get

into data science and I was like going, okay, what's, let's make sure

that we're not taking any shortcuts here and I'm glad I took that.

And I passed the exam to get into the data science program at at a digital

education from general assembly.

And then September through December I 40 at, I did their bootcamp 40 hours

plus per week was really more like 50 to 60 hours of studying data science.

And not in doing nothing, but for that period of time.

And I did get a techno, I did get an instructor assistant job that spring.

But afterwards I wasn't able to lead to data science job, but

during that time, I was able to land a couple marketing contracts

and and Y a bound that over time.

I get so many people, particularly interviewer, particularly those in,

co-workers and that sort of thing they've seen by data science and data analytics

experience, and it's really paid off because I tend to be able to do some

things that and think in ways that.

Many markers tend not to think.

And so that, especially in doing demand generation, which again, that was,

that didn't even exist a few years ago.

And I wound up as a senior demand generation manager role at

the, after my sabbatical ended.

I'm doing it again now.

And and it's enabled me with some skills that many, my peers just.

Don't have or ways they think about, or that they don't

necessarily think about things.

It's really given me that opportunity to be able to drill down

thinking and think on those terms.

That's cool.

Yeah, really.

It's, so utilizing those gaps and those opportunities to step

away to reevaluate reassess.

Re-educate and then reenter.

And I think that's really where, we look at, as we enter a new year, we look

at what is your new year's resolution and how are you going to change?

But oftentimes we don't necessarily look at the same thing from a career path.

And I was mentioning before we hit record, we were talking about

entrepreneurship and how oftentimes entrepreneurs will start a business and

they'll get, maybe it's just an idea and they haven't launched something yet.

Then they decided to change directions before they launch, or they do launch

a business and it's been running for a year or two and they shift direction.

Oftentimes people will look at it and they're like why did you change?

Why did you change that up?

Why did you?

And it's cause we learned new things.

Like we learned that the market we were going after is, wants to pay us $5 for a

$50 product or, whatever that might be.

We found another underserved market.

Where you had someone on the podcast recently, who they found a market.

Yeah.

They're like the closest business that does, this is over a hundred miles away.

There's no one in our area.

And they're like, we've got a captive audience.

Let's start a business that will do this in this city.

And they had been running now for a few years and they've been doing really well.

It's understanding that market and where the skill sets needed.

And I think, looking at the skill set that you shifted towards and

learn more about, it's a more for lack of a better term, like a more

desirable and marketable skillset.

And.

Now, some of your peers are looking into you of Hey, you've got these skills.

And I don't like, how can I get that type thing?

And I think that's, that's really where it's continuing to educate yourself.

Whether it's between jobs or educating yourself on the side, will, that could

be a part-time job is just continued education, especially in today's day

and age of digital accessibility.

Online college classes on websites now for free.

They're not credited, it can be a free class that you take

just to learn and continue to.

Absolutely.

And and while I at the job I'm at now, there's a, I have an opportunity to be

able to do a little bit of continuing education, which I'm absolutely going to

take advantage of for my own for my own Professional Mo from my own marketing

professional marketing growth four get certified in some marketing automation,

which is something I've wanted to do.

But the the I'm just taking an hour, plus I already can pick it

up, put it on the calendar today.

I'm taking an hour each weekday just to be able to just to be

able to sit down and focus on.

And do not ending nothing, but knowing that it's going to ultimately serve my

my employer very well and be able to do and be able to do more easier, quicker,

better, harder, faster, stronger.

And so I think that's really I think that is a really if you've got

any opportunity to be able to get educated, you should be able to do it.

It's education is being educated is not a crime that's that's for certain.

And I think that sometimes I think, I really think that education gets in

the, in, in the business world nowadays tends to get a little bit of a a

little bit of short sticks, so to speak ultimately skills experiences, what

really counts, but you still need to get educated on the skills on those skills.

There's a lot of times these businesses are just not gonna do it for you.

You've got to go and do it, and they're not going to cater to you to do that.

Then you've got do it on your own and it got to get it.

You got to get any way you can.

Yeah, for

sure.

As we're wrapping up.

What is your sort of key takeaway from all this, someone who is either a,

between jobs or maybe they're looking to start a business or they are, trying

to assess this, what is that key element that you would give as a piece of advice?

It's a couple items.

One define yourself and how you yourself relate to that, to the

industry and profession that you want to be in that I think is critical.

Making sure there's key words and key phrases.

And that data centric approach is in the is in your resume,

I think is a vital thing.

I also think that that really really be really.

Knowing who you are knowing really knowing what your role is and who you're going

to be reporting to who you going to be reporting to and what the company is.

I think that sort of thing really counts.

I'm making, I always make it a point that whenever I send it resume, I have

that a cover letter goes right with it.

And it's always addressed to the person who if I can't figure out exactly who

that person is, I would be reporting to that I've got who I think it would be.

It's not somebody higher up.

So that has served me well, too.

I think more than anything else though.

And this is going to sound really corny, but it's so underrated by

employers, by candidates, more than anything else is to get, to gather

your professional references and recommendations, LinkedIn recommendations

and professional references.

Really Amman.

Matter more than anything else that you can possibly have on your resume.

It is it is, that is the verification as to how well you have actually

performed in your career.

It is, and make sure that those references are really good ones, not Hey dad, can

you write something for me that in.

Make sure that colleagues make sure it's supervisors make sure it's clients

the occasional vendor who you worked closely with those sorts of things re or

collaborator those things really count.

And that really that's more evidence than anything of the work that

you've done and how well you've done and how you've lifted the.

The org, the organization or your department or your

clients, all that really.

I think more than anything else make that happen.

My I'm making a point that with my professional reference list is cloth

people deep, and it can go even deeper than that, which is way more than an

in-store spending recruiter or talent acquisition, professional launch.

And that's the idea is.

It is to share that.

And they're all legit.

And the professional recommendations, they're all legit.

And it's I'm like 39 or 40 deep now on LinkedIn.

That's just, it's ridiculous.

Is that wrong, techno?

It's the one time where I think quantity and quality really matter

is in those recommendations.

So I recommend.

I Recommend those particular items.

And by all means also surmount when during the tough times when you're

unemployed surround yourself with family, friends, and loved ones, your support

system is everything and commit and can genuinely make the difference between

life and death during during those unemployment during this employment gap.

There's times of unemployment or whichever you call, I think it's all equal.

Yeah, that's good.

Yeah.

I like some of those, I know the aspect of knowing and knowing the company

that you're applying to and just understanding what the heck they do

or who the manager is, the roles you can't tell you just understanding what

they do and what industry they're in.

If you don't get that right.

They're not even taking a second glance at your resume.

It doesn't matter how good you all are.

You may be asking for the lowest salary and have the best education,

but they won't care if you have no idea what the heck they do.

That's really good.

Yeah.

It's really good.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

References the recommendations.

It's like getting reviews for restaurants, the same thing, I see reviews on products

or restaurants and like great service.

For what a dentist, the restaurant, the mechanic, like it's the quality of it.

It's really key.

It's good.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And sometimes there's moments make the, it's the it's in the details.

There's little moments

to make a difference.

Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Awesome.

I appreciate having you on the show and appreciate your time.

I know there's a bunch of nuggets.

For me, I got out of this and hope listeners will as well.

in The show notes will be your bio and link to your website and

your LinkedIn and everything else.

If people do want to connect with you, what is that sort

of best spot for them to read?

That's the best way professionally is through LinkedIn.

I I'm actually a little fun fact here, Joshua and I'm actually one of the first

million users of LinkedIn and and have been a big believer in it for a long time.

Now it is definitely.

Is it perfect?

No, but I tell you what one heck of a power Rolodex and it's.

It is and for doing jobs search, it is absolutely fundamental.

So I think I'm I, that's the best way to reach me for sure.

Awesome.

That will be, like I said, in the show notes.

So for those who do want to connect with you, I will be able to do and

again, appreciate having you on and

tell him, I think they should also mention

that I interviewed with you.

That way I know.

Yep.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

I mentioned the podcast if you want to connect with Frank and awesome.

Appreciate the time, like I said, and we'll go.

Absolutely.

Thanks again, Joshua.

I appreciate it.

I really enjoyed our conversation.

It was great.

Have anyone like what.

Thanks for listening to this episode of, in the bunker.

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