8 Steps to Great Web Design with Michelle Balge

Michelle Lasley 0:02

Hi. This is Michelle Lasley with balanced shared a space where I truly believe we are better together. My guest today is Michelle bulge, she uses the pronouns she her hers. Michelle is the founder of worth designs, where she designs websites and sales pages that are functional, strategic, beautiful and impactful. She works with purpose driven, ethical businesses, including nonprofits. She graduated from a post graduate web design certificate program and holds a BA in sociology with a concentration in critical animal studies. She holds honors with both degrees. Additionally, Michelle is a mental health advocate, author, an animal lover, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you so much for having me. You're welcome.

So,

I am so curious how people got to where they are. But first, tell me what your mission is.

Michelle Balge 1:00

My mission is to help other people help other people. Cuz when I decided to go into web design, it's like I wanted to know, how can I help other people with my career, and I took web design from a hobby to a career knowing that I can work with purpose driven businesses, I can work with nonprofits, I can work with people that are helping others, so I can further them their business growth, and then therefore be helping like the environment and people and animals.

Michelle Lasley 1:33

Oh, awesome. Okay, we'll get to that piece in a second. But first, when designers have work, like their best portfolio is their website, right. And so I was just looking at your website, and it's really beautiful. I love the clean design, I love your inviting color palette. And it's simple and easy to read, you hit all the right points. And it's fast. Which I mentioned that because having a functional website is so so important. You know, people come to our websites for different reasons, in different ways. And when you get stuck, and you can't scroll, or the image doesn't load, it can be really frustrating for the end user. So you take a lot of care it looks like and how that brand shows up for not only yourself, but then I would assume your clients. Oh, yeah. Yeah, big time. You say it, like it's so obvious, but it's not obvious for everybody. So can you explain why that's important to you? Yeah, it's

Michelle Balge 2:44

just having a website that's user friendly, that's functional, that still looks good, but actually converts and does something, it just it works. It's like it makes it more than just a static website sitting there taking up space, it becomes something that is a great tool for your business, it becomes something that you can use to grow your business to gain clients or customers to make people more aware of your business. You can make stronger connections with people, I can show that you're credible and trustworthy. And if you have a website that, like looks crappy, for lack of a better word, it like people will be like, oh, like, do I really want to trust them? Like, do I want to go with that person? And then if you have someone else with a website that looks great, and is user friendly and speaks to them, then who are you going to choose? You're going to choose the person with a user friendly website?

Michelle Lasley 3:45

Awesome. So crafting a website can be as simple or more complicated endeavor. When your clients come to you, what's your process for helping them navigate that?

Michelle Balge 4:00

So when my clients come to me, I always tell them that we're going to take a strategic approach. So I look at, like the goals that they have. So are they wanting to book more calls? Are they wanting someone to get a quote? Are they wanting to grow their email list? Like what's this mean thing that they want to do? And then I also look at their ideal client. So who do they ideally want to work with? And it's more than just like female entrepreneurs, it's, I want to work with like middle aged women in like, middle class income and that have this philosophy and those interests and that belief. You really get into what they're thinking. And then when I work with my clients, I go through a whole process and I get their feedback the entire time, as we're going through all the different stages. And I've noticed that they always have a sense of trust. To me, which is really helpful, because you want to have that connection with them. And now I forget what your original question was. But maybe I have answered it.

Michelle Lasley 5:09

No, that's great. I was curious the process, right? How how you help your well, ultimately, I didn't ask it in this way. But I'm curious how you help your clients tell their story.

Michelle Balge 5:21

I help them tell their story through the design itself. Because and when I'm going through the style of their website, I'm looking at what do they want themselves, what represents them, what represents their business, but also very much? What does their ideal client Want to see? Like, it does always go back to that, because if you're someone that loves black, but your ideal client is like, super feminine and pinky, they're not going to go for the just black. That's not what they're going to want. So it has to be like a balance between what my client wants themselves and what their ideal client really wants. And it's also like,

Unknown Speaker 6:05

I just want to work with people, I

Michelle Lasley 6:07

just

Michelle Balge 6:09

like to get a sense of, yeah, what they're wanting. And when I work with my clients, I just I like to be able to know what they're feeling the feel they want for the website. So is are they looking for something that's modern, that's crisp and clean? Are they wanting something that's fun and girly, they can have all sorts of different feelings that they're wanting for their website. And then it's also important to look at their copy. Their copy is like so, so important. And so I work on people with that, too, where it's like, you want to be able to speak to your audience and really make that connection.

Michelle Lasley 6:47

How long have you been working, doing this kind of work?

Michelle Balge 6:51

Since May: 2018

Michelle Lasley 7:03

So yeah.

Michelle Balge 7:04

And then even before then, like, before I took it web design into a career, it was a hobby since I was 12, or 13.

Michelle Lasley 7:12

nd so my first website was in: 1996

Michelle Balge 8:18

I prefer WordPress. Absolutely. I know a lot of other people. Well, not a lot, but like Squarespace and Wix or other popular ones, even Weebly a bit, and webflow. But WordPress is the most popular, I believe it's over accounts for over a quarter of all websites. And I just I find that it's pretty user friendly, at least I find it really easy to navigate. And I when I designed my websites, I make sure it's easy for clients to be able to use afterwards as well. And it just, it really allows for a lot of customization. Because you can't customize things as much in a place like Wix, you're just you're limited to their templates. But then in WordPress, you can have a theme. And yes, it comes with templates. But there's also the option to just start with a literal, blank white page, and then put your entire design onto it. And then it allows for custom code, which I like to add to. And so when you add custom code, like right there, that's you can do anything with it, you can make anything.

Michelle Lasley 9:26

So yes, having the customization is, is one of the things that I love. And the other thing that I love specifically about WordPress, is that you can get the self hosted package and you can pay literally zero money for it. All you have to do is come up and provide your own hosting for it. And so that accessibility, especially for people who are just starting out of business, and they want to really have a good handle on maybe all of their costs, I think is so beautiful because you've you've got to have a domain and you got to have your domain does some sort of hosting service, you're already going to be budgeting around $100 a year, give or take, right? And so that's just going to have to be your sunk cost budgeted in, but that you can get a website on the ground without any other additional fees, I think is a really amazing thing. And I'm so grateful for WordPress for offering such an amazing platform that is so expensive. For literally $0.

Michelle Balge: 10:23

Yeah. Oh, one. One thing you do have to be careful with though, is with a domain name, it doesn't really matter who you get it from. But for hosting, there's some hosts that are like notorious for having like slower website speeds. So for me having a faster website, like I use siteground, which I refer to like I for all my clients to it, because that's one that I really, really trust, and I love the customer service. And when I first got my business up, I was using hostgator. Because I didn't even realize there is like a difference between the cheaper ones, the more expensive one. So it's like, why not just go with cheap, my website took eight seconds to load, which is not acceptable for a website designer. So I switched to siteground. And then now it takes about two seconds or less to load. And then you want to build up a website that loads in three seconds or less. So having a good host is really, really important. And then so it's like, yes, it can cost $100. But if you were to just spend up to like 150 a year, even just like that little bump, depends if you consider that little or not. But it's worth it in the long haul. Because people you're going to have a lower bounce rate, you're going to have people stay on your website longer, because they're like, Oh, it's

Michelle Lasley: 11:44

fast. Let's

Michelle Balge: 11:44

do this. Instead of Okay, this is taking off, I'm going somewhere else.

Michelle Lasley: 11:49

And a bounce rate means

Michelle Balge: 11:52

people go on your website, but they don't actually look through it. They just leave.

Michelle Lasley: 11:56

Right? They're like, bouncing away. Right? And they're only there for like a couple seconds. Yeah, yeah. I have a sense that the term changed over the last 20 years. And so I just love that clarification. So I'm curious, since you just mentioned that you want your website to load completely in three seconds. I think that's a really amazing target. So like, I immediately liken it to driving a car, right? Like you can zero to 60. And how many seconds, right? Like how fast can you get to where you want to go. And in our age, we're so impatient, right like that three seconds, it can be like you said, if it took eight seconds for it to load, I know, I sometimes overload my website and that and I get some challenges, images might be too big or something like that, and I'm watching it and it's in it should have this should pop up, and then this image should pop up. And it's not. And that feels like an absolute eternity, as you're watching half a second one second, you know, just tick on bikes. So in addition to having a site load in three seconds, what are two to four other tips, so three to five tips total that somebody should look for, in providing a great user experience.

Michelle Balge: 13:15

For a great user experience, I would say tip number one is to have a clean navigation. Because your navigation, your menu, both terms for the same thing. So it's like you want to start with about usually. And then you want to end with a way to contact you. So whether that's contact us book a call, get a quote, you want that to be on the far right of your navigation because your eyes are going to naturally go there first. And then you want the navigation to be clean and make sense. So when you have the sub navigation items, just how does it really makes sense. So if your main thing is services, the sub navigation is the multiple services you offer. And then I also really like it when people have a main services page as well, some people will just have services in the navigation. And then on the sub menu, those are the only ones that actually link anywhere. I love it when all of the main navigation items link somewhere. I just I find that helpful because I get frustrated. If I can't click it. I'm like, Oh, right. I wasn't supposed to oops, let me interject for a second.

Michelle Lasley: 14:27

I kind of give it as like an onion, right? And so when you click on services, you you're like, oh, okay, and then you get the sort of high level view of what those services are. And then when you click on it, then you peel the onion back and you're getting more layers of what the individual services are. Exactly, I totally validate that use it. Yes, thank you I love and 100% validation for your your opinion. Yeah. Alright, so step number one, clean experience. Is that right? Yeah. Okay.

Michelle Balge: 15:02

Yes. Number two is well in relation to clean experience is to don't, not having clutter on your website. So it's one thing to have, like designs that will enhance like a photo or point to certain areas. But if you have random images that aren't adding to the value of your website, if you have words that are just sitting there to be sitting there, that's not going to help you. You want to get rid of the noise, the distractions, you want to just have what actually matters on your website. As people are scanning through it, you want them to be able to actually scan it, and then see important things. They're looking for such a short amount of time, you don't have time to distract them with other things. Just give them what they need. So the best thing you can do is keep it simple. Like as simple as possible. It's your best bet because if you do too much, it's way too much. If you keep it too simple. It's probably not a bad thing. Like you don't want to sparse website, but you still want to be able to just

Michelle Lasley: 16:11

have a focus. Like be intentional with your Yes, you're just be intentional. Yeah. Okay, those are great. Two points. In addition to the load, I want to take a quick break. And when we come back, let's finish this list and talk about animals. Okay, oh, I love it. I love aligning my days with nature's rhythms. And I made a tool to make easier, I would like to introduce you to my moon deck. My moon deck is a perpetual calendar, a calendar that never expires. This 86 card deck with booklet will allow you to lay out your day, week or month, and overlay the sun and the moon with the elements and with the celebrations from the Wheel of the Year. This tool drawn and created by me Michelle Lasley will be your fun, whimsical and practical tool to see how nature and its rhythms can support you. If you want to learn more, and get your own deck today, visit www dot Michelle lasley.com slash moon deck. I can't wait to help you align your time with nature and my perpetual calendar, the moon deck. Welcome back. So we have been talking about web design and what makes great design. And I've asked Michelle to come up with a list of the top three to five things that help with an end user experience. And we discussed loading a page and that should load in three seconds or less. Have a clean experience for your user and be intentional about your design, what's next.

Michelle Balge: 17:59

Another thing that I find really important is to have enough white space on your website. So whitespace, it doesn't actually have to be white, but it should be blank. So if you have a section on your website with a bunch of writing, and say the background color is great. And then you have the next section and the background color is pink, you want to be able to have spaces in between there. So with the writing, you want to have be able to see gray on the top and the bottom of the writing. And then in your next section with the pink, you want to be able to see pink on the top and the bottom of the writing. When it's all squished together, it just looks really, really messy. But you also don't want it to be too far apart, where you're having to scroll along way past just blank information. So it's really important to have a good balance between the whitespace. And you want like spaces between your images in the writing. Don't have them touching each other unless it's intentional in the design. But it's pretty obvious if you just look at a website, you're like, oh, it shouldn't be like that. So you really want to be able to Yeah, have that whitespace in a managed amount.

Michelle Lasley: 19:13

That's awesome.

Michelle Balge: 19:14

I just I find that super, super important because there's so many people that will have like a heading in a new section. And it's like almost touching the line up top. And it's just like no, no, no, it needs to breathe, let it breathe, right. You need to give your eyes a chance to breathe, otherwise your eyes fatigue. And

Michelle Lasley: 19:33

so so like when you're looking at, you know, different medium, right? It's really important for people to remember that it's a completely different medium, and our eyes behave a totally different way. So a book, you know, you can have the squished context because if you, you know have the bifocals and those aren't working, you can grab your magnifying glass and like make it bigger, right? And yeah, you can like zoom in a website but you don't really want that to happen because going back to the bounce rate. You want people to be able to Stay engaged. And if they look at your site, and it's so cluttered, and you're trying to figure out whether I should go, it's just going to be a really uncomfortable user experience.

Michelle Balge: 20:10

Exactly, yeah. And that's also like, at least me to colors, where you should avoid any like neon colors on your website, because it's just gonna, like, burn the users eyes, it's just gonna hurt if you have little pops of it, like, it can be okay. But again, it depends upon the design. If you're someone that's not super visual and creative, then just don't do it. And then you don't have to worry about messing it up. But if you have a really good eye for it, then you would know where it's okay to add this. And also just, there's certain colors, you want to avoid having like on top of each other, just for accessibility reasons. And if you have like green and red together, it's just usually doesn't work. There's just a bit of things where you can look it up online and look up color schemes, color schemes that people have, like created for websites, and then you can go with those, instead of creating your own mismatch of stuff.

Michelle Lasley: 21:12

That's great. I'm gonna add a plug for a color scheme tool, if I may. There is a design college here in the US called sessions. They're primarily online, and they have a really great design calculator, a color calculator, that's helpful. And you can manipulate it they can give you like, so we'll have a link to that in the show notes. So that you can get your own own to which it's just a great tool. It's like if you haven't had color theory, and you don't know readily, you know, like, what color complements this. So this is your main color that you've chosen because it identifies you. But what other supporting colors can you have? It's a really fun tool to play with, to not only get complimentary colors, but then see what can work together. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. What other Do you have any other tips for us? Or is that there's a lot of tips I could? Well, that's a total. That's like really great.

Michelle Balge: 22:08

Yeah, I'm trying to think of main ones, but also okay to have your user, your ideal clients, your ideal user in mind when you're making your website. So and like, it's, like I said earlier, you're wanting to do what that user wants, and give them a path they want to take, Oh, that makes me think of calls to action. CTAs need to have calls to action on your website. Okay, that's a huge one. That's awesome. People don't have those a lot of the time or they have them, they don't stand out enough. And it's just hidden within a paragraph of content. No, you stand out, make it stand out, have a button, haven't seen something enticing. That's going to make the user go to where you want them to go. You want them to book a call, tell them right there, like, get your free call, free 15 minute call. And then they'll do it probably like they might not. But if you bring them somewhere else on the website, okay, they're going to the services and stuff. Well, if we look at your services, okay, now, you should book a call. Like, you want to keep bringing them to where you want them to go, and also where you feel like they will naturally go. So it's all about like the user journey. Oh, that's so awesome.

Michelle Lasley: 23:24

So back to coming up with your ideal client. Some people use that language as an avatar I've heard a lot lately. And so one thing that you can do is, like, literally write the story of this character, who your ideal client is, you could even go so far as to name them. You could think of this in like a macro, or you can get really detailed. And, you know, like I said, so name them. What's their occupation? Do they have kids? Are they partnered, you know, like, get detailed. And then when you're doing that design, you have that person in mind while you're creating?

Michelle Balge: 24:00

Yeah, exactly. That's what I learned in one of my marketing courses. In the web design program. Yeah, they're like, just name the person find a picture off of Google, because you're not using it with the clients just for you. Like, just do that. So you actually can see this person, like they become real. And you know, like, where they're going to be like, are they going to be on like Facebook or Instagram? And yeah, what are their interests? And you just you have like, you know, everything about this person, and then this is the one that you're trying to attract. Because they exist somewhere. You don't see them, but you're going to bring them to you.

Michelle Lasley: 24:43

That's so awesome. And we can talk about another podcast about the importance of visualization and all that. So then can we get to the call to action a little bit more so. You strike me as a slightly shy individual. Oh, yeah. And yet, you are telling us and you've done this on your website to get out of the shy box and invite people to work with you. So how did you come around to embracing this?

Unknown Speaker: 25:17

So

Michelle Balge: 25:18

I actually took a program at will in Canada, it's called km h, the Center for Addiction and Mental Health. And I have social anxiety. And I took a program with them to help get me out of that social anxiety, like the whole I was in, where I literally couldn't leave the house at one point I dropped out of university. So doing that, and doing exposure therapy really, really helped me. And so I just, I know that it's really important to always put yourself out there always go past your boundaries, not to like an extreme extent, work your way up to it go out of your comfort zone. Because when you get out of your comfort zone, it opens up so many more possibilities. Like you, you get out of your shy shell. And then you're like, Oh, I'm actually able to go on calls with clients. Now. I'm able to do things to connect with people more I'm able to go to networking events, I'm able to do more than just answer emails, I'm able to have like a face to my business instead of hiding behind it. And like I'm afraid to do Facebook Lives. But I just had a coaching call last night. And I was like, You know what?

Michelle Lasley: 26:36

I'm gonna do this.

Michelle Balge: 26:37

I'm going to start Facebook Lives. So I'm going to start them next week, like,

Michelle Lasley: 26:41

awesome. So you heard this, at the time of this recording. Michelle is going to start her Facebook Lives. And when this recording gets played, we'll make sure to have a link so that we can see how many you've done. A lot of file Yeah, no problem. Yeah. We'll link to her page and then specifically the video section. Awesome. Okay. I said we would talk about animals, and we're almost out of time. So I want to make sure that we do that because you pivoted right. So you started in sociology, and then this animal studies program, and then you switch to web design. So first, why animals?

Michelle Balge: 27:22

So I've just always loved them since kindergarten, maybe when I was born. I've loved like monkeys as well, especially like apes and chimpanzees. Actually, no monkeys and apes are different. When I was younger, I didn't realize that. But like I have, literally over 200 stuffed animals that are monkeys and apes. And then I have other animals too. I had I adore any kind of animal. But yeah, that's my ultimate favorite. Like Jane Goodall is like my idol. And I've just, I think it's partially because I'm so shy, that animals, it's like, they're not going to judge me. I don't have to be afraid of them doing anything wrong. And if I say something wrong to them, like they're not going to notice. And they're still going to talk back to me with the barking, knowing whatever kind of animal it is. I just, I just feel so close to them. I don't know. I

Michelle Lasley: 28:23

I don't have a

Michelle Balge: 28:24

I think it is largely because of the shyness. And there's just, yeah, some people where it's just like, you have a better connection with animals than humans. Yeah. Like I've and I've had pets in the house. Since I was really young. We had a bird when I was like, around seven ish, maybe you're younger. And then we got like a hamster. And then we transition into having a cat. And then we got a second cat. So they would have a friend. And then we got a dog. And now everyone has passed away as of last year. Just really, really sad. But we're going to have a new dog in the next couple months. Oh, nice. Yeah, I'm still living with my parents, unfortunately. It's great

Michelle Lasley: 29:09

that they supported. Yeah.

Michelle Balge: 29:12

But I was trying to convince them to get like a rescue dog. And they were like, Oh, I don't know about that. But we did end up finding an ethical breeder at least awesome. Yeah. And she got in Canada. I didn't realize this, but it was a legal requirement to do tail docking. And so this person got that thing taken away. So it's no, I don't know if it's illegal now. But it's definitely not a requirement to do tail docking. Oh, that's awesome. Because she doesn't support it. So I'm like, Okay, if you're gonna go with a greeter, go with that one.

Michelle Lasley: 29:44

That's awesome. I think it might be a well, I find this interesting to know, at least here in the US. I don't know. I mean, there's so many similarities between us, Canadians and us. Yeah, but in the US 67% of households are pet households.

Michelle Balge: 30:00

That makes sense. Yeah. I actually would think it would be a bit higher Really? Are loads of allergies. Right, right.

Michelle Lasley: 30:08

I have allergies. So you love animals, they offer you comfort and give you courage. And they're always there to be an understanding companion. And so you wanted to study them. And then you pivoted, what changed.

Michelle Balge: 30:27

So when I went to university, it was originally for business. I went for business for the first couple years. And then I was like, I'm not loving this, I'm learning about manipulating people, it didn't feel right. So I was like, You know what, like, I don't know what job I'm going to get out of this, but I'm going to do something I really enjoy. So I thought, I'm gonna go do sociology. And I knew that they had a concentration in critical animal studies available. And I was like, why I love animals. And sociology is also about like, like, I took courses on alternatives to capitalism. So like, we learned about, like, socialism and stuff like that. And I was just like, I'm all in for this. So I wanted to take courses that were against the green and more for like, a whole equal world with just betterness. I don't know the right word to use, but, and yeah, with the animals, I was just like, I want to learn more about this, I want to learn more about them. And then when it came to the time, when I was soon graduating, I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do with this. So I thought, okay, I'll take my hobby of web design, make a career into that. But I'm going to work with people that work with animals. And then so my main focus for a while was working on any kind of animal related business, positive animal related business, like not a butcher shop. Oh, I'm vegetarian, no. And it was also mental health, because mental health is really big with me, I was like the president of the mental health club and university, just after taking the social anxiety program. And so yeah, I really wanted to focus on animals and mental health. And then I realized it was just difficult to find, like the right clients that would be able to spend the money because I was just where I was making, my focus wasn't necessarily getting the results. So I expanded it to overall social good businesses. And it makes me really happy that I'm able to expand my horizons on who I'm able to help. But in the end, for me, it always does come back to mental health in animals often just love them. Sorry,

Michelle Lasley: 32:49

no, don't apologize for that at all. So you work with people in a couple different ways. You have some like startup packages where you could just like allow people to get their website created and some different tiers. And then you also offer some ongoing maintenance programs. Can you briefly talk about that? How you work with people?

Michelle Balge: 33:07

Yeah,

so I it's mostly done for you services. So the like custom web design, and then I offer a couple different tiers, one where I'll do the design and development, but it's within my development abilities. So that can restrict the design a bit. And then I also offer another option where it's, my design is not limited by anything, only the limits of the internet. And then I have a developer go and develop it for me. And so that's another option that I have. And then for the maintenance for my clients, I offer it to them, so they don't have to worry about maintaining their websites after. So I give them access to like plugins that I've paid for. So that goes into their monthly fee. And to make their website faster to have stronger SEO search engine optimization, to have backups more backups of their website and to have paid security. And whether they go with my maintenance plan or not. I just I always tell them, please, please, please purchase a paid security plugin. Like I don't want to do all this work. I don't want you to pay that money, and then have it go nowhere and disappear and get hacked. So everyone listening, please, for the love of everything. Get a paid security plugin. The free ones aren't. They can help somewhat. But get a paid one because you're just you don't want your website to get hacked. That's just not good for business at all.

Michelle Lasley: 34:40

Or one's well being either. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's great. So that's seven tips. Let's go back to that for one second. That's actually eight tips. One. No, no, this is good. I guess that's good. Yeah, I think it is. Load your page in three seconds or less. Number two, offer your users a clean experience. Number three Three, be intentional. Number four, use enough whitespace. Number five, avoid neon colors. Number six, have your ideal client in mind. Number seven, make your call to action prominent and have them. And number eight, get paid security. That's a great list that I love that list. That's so awesome. So you also have a video series that you offer people tell me about that?

Michelle Balge: 35:32

Yeah, so I created the client attraction formula for people to be able to attract their ideal clients. And so part of that is knowing who your ideal client is. So in the video series, I talked about not only getting clear on your business itself, what you want it to do your goals and all of that, but who your ideal client is, goes through a bunch of questions for you to ask yourself. So like, what do what does this person believe in and what does like the all the stuff I've talked about before with the philosophy, and like you said, even do they have kids stuff like that can help. And I also go over a SWOT analysis. So the strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats to your business. And then I also go into looking at your website, itself, because it's such an important part of your business. And I do a little SWOT analysis on that, for you to be able to understand where your strengths and weaknesses are on your business where you have opportunities to improve your website. And then threats that you have that are like holding people back from wanting to work with you. And then I also give at the end, some ways to bring traffic to your website, because it's one thing to have a website, but you it's another to actually get people to go on to it. So I have a bunch of strategies to get traffic into your site. And so people can have their eyes on it, and then take action. Oh, that's

Michelle Lasley: 37:07

amazing. So that website is www dot worth it designs.com slash formula. And we'll have that link in the show notes for you as well. I am so grateful for you to come on and share your wisdom and your beautiful design even though we can't see it in this audio recording. with us. Thank you, Michelle, so much for joining us. Yeah, thank you so so much for having me here. I really really enjoyed it. Oh good. I don't mean to say that in a shocked voice. I just mean like, this was awesome. I'm so precise. So it's scary, but it's great. Thank you so so much. You are so welcome. I'm so grateful.

Balance shared is produced and edited by me. Michelle Lasley, the instrumental music grass by Silent Partner is from the YouTube Audio Library. If you've enjoyed today's episode, leave a review, especially on Apple podcasts. If you've loved the messages of CO creating a better future and digging into ourselves, maybe you'd like to become a supporter. Email Hello at Michelle lasley.com to get your sponsorship guide. Thank you for listening to this podcast. This is Michelle Lasley with bounce shared a space where I truly believe we are better together.

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