What would it look like to build a multi-million dollar business while raising six kids, advocating full-time for a child with autism, and navigating everything that nobody put in the business plan?

That's exactly what Julie Cole did, and she didn't do it by following the standard playbook.

Julie is the co-founder of Mabel's Labels, a brand she started almost 23 years ago with her sister and two college friends when her eldest son was diagnosed with autism at three years old. She left a career in law, started making labels in a basement at 2am, and built something real, not because the timing was perfect, but because she figured out what her actual capacity was and built around that.

In this conversation, Julie and Nikita get into the conversation most business advice skips entirely: what actually has to shift when you're a mom, a caregiver, and an entrepreneur all at the same time, and why the skills you're already using at home are more valuable than you think.

In This Episode, You'll Learn:

• Why capacity is the first conversation, not the last: before strategy, before offers, before anything else, you need to know what you can actually carry and Julie's story shows exactly what happens when you get honest about that first
• How the skills you're already using as a caregiver translate directly into business: advocacy, research, negotiation, flexibility under pressure — these aren't soft skills, they're the exact skills that build something sustainable
• Why entrepreneurship gets romanticized and what the real version looks like: Julie is direct about what those early years actually looked like, and it's not TED talks and wine nights
• How building a values-led company culture protects both your business and your life: From results-only work environments to neurodivergent hiring, Julie built a company that worked for real humans living real lives
• What the "care gap" actually means for women entrepreneurs: Whether or not you have kids, the invisible load is real, and building a business that pretends otherwise is building on a weak foundation
• Why visibility creates credibility, which creates loyalty: Showing up — even when life is heavy, even when the pace feels impossible — is not about hustle, it's about trust

⭐ Enjoyed this conversation? Leave a review and share it with another mom who's building something — she needs to hear this one.

Leave us a Review and share this episode with a friend.

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Nikita Williams (2): If you're a woman

in business feeling like your personal

2

responsibilities pull you away from

entrepreneurial success or that your

3

real-life skills that you've experienced

or accumulated over time do not translate

4

to the bottom line or to your corporate

ladder, then this episode is for you.

5

I'm joined by Julie Cole, lawyer

turned label maker, entrepreneur, and

6

mom of six who reveals how the skills

honed in caregiving are not just

7

transferable but actually foundational

to building a successful business.

8

We challenge the idea that

your business must be separate

9

from your life experience.

10

Listen for how caregiving develops

critical skills while integrating

11

your life and business creates

better company culture as Julie

12

shares from her company and how to

stop undervaluing your unique path.

13

So stay tuned.

14

Are you tired of hearing business

advice that completely ignores what

15

real life looks like when you're

navigating chronic illness, autoimmune

16

disorders, flare-ups, medical

appointments, and just life life-ing?

17

Business with Chronic Illness is for

entrepreneurs who know they're capable

18

of building something meaningful,

but need a way to do it that actually

19

works with their body, not against it.

20

This podcast brings you honest

conversations with founders, CEOs, and

21

other bosses, sharing their strategies,

adaptations, and lessons they've

22

learned while building businesses

alongside chronic illness, including

23

what worked, what didn't, and what

they wish they had done differently

24

before burnout forced the lesson.

25

I'm your host, Nikita Williams, a globally

ranked podcast host and entrepreneur

26

who's built my business while navigating

chronic illness and helping others do

27

the same without sacrificing themselves.

28

I created this show to open up the

conversations most business spaces avoid.

29

The promise of Business with Chronic

Illness is simple: to show you that

30

you can build a thriving business

with chronic illness and autoimmune

31

disorders without sacrificing your

health, your peace, or your profit.

32

You're not behind, you're

building differently, and

33

you're in the right place.

34

I am super excited to

have Julie on the show.

35

We are going to be talking about a very

important topic, which is caregiving.

36

Caregiving and what does that look

like as an entrepreneur, as a mom,

37

as a, as a wife, as a person, and

you're taking care of somebody else.

38

So Julie, I know you have

so much experience in this.

39

I know this is part of

your own personal story.

40

Please share with us, where

does this look like for you?

41

Where did this caregiving aspect of

approaching business come into your life?

42

Julie Cole: Yeah.

43

So it's interesting, you know?

44

Like, you think often women particularly

start businesses for very, you know,

45

different reasons, and often it is

lifestyle, and for me, that was the case.

46

And it's like you, you know, needed

some more flexibility, and for me,

47

that came as a result of my eldest

child being diagnosed with autism.

48

So originally, I joke that

I'm a recovered lawyer.

49

Um, so the...

50

So my business, Mabel's Labels,

I started it with three...

51

Actually, my sister and two

of our friends from college.

52

And Mabel's Labels started

for a couple of reasons.

53

One was, like I said,

my son was diagnosed.

54

He had only just turned three.

55

The research told me that, you know,

if one parent really commits and we do

56

all the early intervention and we work

really hard, then one day he might move

57

out of my house, which is my end goal.

58

And, um, so there was that, like, just

wanting to be able to provide for him,

59

advocate for him- Yeah ... get him to

his sessions, all that sort of thing.

60

And life in the traditional workforce

is not necessarily suited for

61

women, moms who want to do that,

or any parent for that matter.

62

It just usually does fall

on us, let's face it.

63

So true.

64

That's just facts.

65

So that's when, you

know, I went to the gals.

66

I said, "Look, we've had this really

good idea for a business, and,

67

you know, Mac just got diagnosed.

68

One was on a mat leave."

69

Like, everybody was kind of

all over the place, and we're

70

like, "Well, let's just do it."

71

So we started doing our

research and development.

72

So it really was the two things, you know,

the, the lifestyle and having a good i-

73

idea and bringing, bringing that together.

74

So, um, yeah, it was the

flexibility I was looking for.

75

And also, you know, he is my eldest child.

76

He had only just turned three.

77

He already had two younger siblings.

78

I have six kids.

79

So it was a very busy household

As it was with or without autism.

80

Nikita Williams (2): Wow.

81

I mean, all of those things

add texture to business advice.

82

I think it adds a filter to what decisions

you decide to make, who you decide to work

83

with, and I know a big part of your story

is community, support, building founders.

84

How did that shape the way that

you structured your business?

85

Julie Cole: Yeah.

86

I think for us, like, it was pretty

unique having four co-founders.

87

And for anyone out there who has a

business and maybe has one partner,

88

you're probably going, "What?"

89

"Is that like...

90

That is craziness having four."

91

Because of course you have lots of

ideas and lots of opinions and lots

92

of feisty conversations, but you

also have four different brains-

93

Nikita Williams (2): Mm

94

... Julie Cole: four different skill sets.

95

You have division of labor, so, you

know, I didn't have to do it all.

96

Mm.

97

You know, one person could be

like, "Okay, I'm gonna research

98

this machinery, and I'm gonna talk

to the bank, and I'm gonna do..."

99

So we could really divide and

conquer, and also that we were

100

able to provide each other...

101

Because especially 20, almost 23

years ago when we started, long

102

before podcasts and social media, the

entrepreneurship grind was very lonely.

103

Mm.

104

So, and I saw this with my solo

entrepreneur friends, particularly

105

in the mom entrepreneur space.

106

You know, they're working out of

their basements or their garage or

107

on a laptop somewhere, and it can be

a lonely, it can be a lonely space.

108

So for the four of us as well, we were

able to provide each other with support.

109

We were able to divide risk financially

by us all contributing, which felt

110

a little more comfortable as well.

111

But also the fact that this was,

like, my sister- Mm ... and our

112

two friends who actually ended up

marrying my brother, and I have a

113

young uncle, so we were all family.

114

Oh.

115

So they also were aligned with- Mm

116

wanting the best for my son, right?

117

Yeah.

118

And wanting the best outcome, so

understanding the reason I made,

119

you know, the leap from traditional

workforce to entrepreneurship.

120

And, uh, like you say, like built,

it was like a built-in community-

121

Mm ... when back in those days,

there were no online communities.

122

There might be, like, awkward

in-person events sometimes-

123

like with your local chamber of commerce.

124

But again, that stuff was very

hard because, you know, when you're

125

raising a, a young family, getting

out to go to do that sort of

126

thing can be, can be really tough.

127

So it was like, you know, building our

own community and then, of course, like,

128

that just, you know, women founders, we

just, you know, kept building community.

129

We ended up with a huge, like, you

know, online presence and, you know, I,

130

I was a mom blogger from the way back

days and a huge, you know, following

131

on social media when, once that hit.

132

So we just brought that community from

the four of us to the entire company,

133

and it just became our company culture.

134

Nikita Williams (2): I love hearing

that because I think- Often, you know,

135

I started my business back in 2017

online, and we did have social media.

136

We did have Facebook.

137

We did...

138

We didn't have Instagram yet, but

we did have Facebook, and so there

139

was this kind of built-in ability

to connect with people in different

140

ways that you weren't used to.

141

But I think even still today when

I talk to women, there's resistance

142

around having that support system.

143

I wonder for you what felt like, if

there was anything, what felt like

144

the hardest thing to kind of- Yeah

145

figure that aspect out in being

a mom, taking care of this new

146

situation that you're still trying to

figure out, it's very new, and then

147

bringing in other people and their

situations, even though they're family.

148

What felt like the hardest thing?

149

Julie Cole: Yeah, I think, you know,

for a lo- there's a, there's a few

150

things at play, I think, in those

early days of entrepreneurship.

151

And, and I, I'll say this as a

warning for those who are like,

152

"Oh, I've got a great idea."

153

I, I do think entre- and I'm sure you

can attest to this, entrepreneurship

154

tends to get romanticized a bit.

155

Ugh, yes.

156

And, you know, everyone thinks it's gonna

be like TED Talks and getting invited

157

on your podcast and, and book, you know,

speaking events and stuff like that.

158

But, uh, you know what?

159

I, I have to say, I do a lot of that

now, but back in the day, it was a lot

160

of, you know, putting the kids to bed,

going to my sister's basement, making

161

labels till 2:00 AM, getting up at 6:00

AM with the kids and doing it all again.

162

So the...

163

it was, you know, it wasn't like,

you know, putting the kids to bed,

164

grabbing a glass of wine, hopping

on Netflix and chilling out.

165

Like, you know, it was a real struggle, so

you had to manage your own expectations.

166

And then I think also if you have a f-

a family like a spouse or, you know,

167

children, you have to manage theirs

too, 'cause they need to understand,

168

look, we might not be going on holidays.

169

Like this is feast or famine, right?

170

Mm.

171

Like, this is...

172

We might not get the new car.

173

We ha- we'll have to make

decisions around our new situation.

174

So I do think before anyone

goes into this, one of the hard

175

things can be is actually knowing

what entrepreneur looks like.

176

Mm.

177

And it doesn't look like what a

lot of people think it looks like.

178

It is not glamorous.

179

And, you know, that financial

piece too, like you really

180

have to know your finances.

181

Mm.

182

You gotta know what you're going into.

183

You gotta know where you're

getting the money from.

184

How are you gonna budget this?

185

How is it gonna make sense?

186

Can you do it?

187

Do you have the capacity?

188

Do you have a business plan?

189

Can you work together?

190

I do think you made a good point that

sometimes asking for help is hard and, you

191

know, we don't wanna do these things, but

I actually think women are better at this.

192

And I think for me, having

that partnership group, we

193

were just like, "Who cares?

194

We don't care if we look dumb.

195

I'll ask anything."

196

And I've said this to

my kid, "Nos are free.

197

Just ask- Mm ... 'cause the worst

that's gonna happen is they'll say no."

198

So, you know, we all,

we used our networks.

199

We made sure, you know,

we know somebody in CPG.

200

We know a IT nerd who

can make us a website.

201

Mm.

202

We know...

203

Like, we do know these

people, so go out and ask.

204

So I, I think those early

challenges really are about, like,

205

understanding the lifestyle change- Mm

206

understanding, you know, the, the

economics of it, the how are you gonna

207

finance it, how are you gonna plan it,

and how are you gonna fulfill it too.

208

Because I...

209

Another thing I do find with

entrepreneurs- Is, you know, we're really

210

great at the early stuff, you know?

211

Mm.

212

But then our ADD kicks in.

213

Because it's huge in the

entrepreneurship community, so then

214

the follow-through and the process.

215

So we like that early

scrappy startup stuff.

216

Soon as we've got spreadsheets

around us, not so much.

217

Mm-hmm.

218

So, you know, if you don't have that, if

you're not great at process, you're not

219

great at following through, make sure you

hire somebody or partner with somebody

220

who has skills that you don't have.

221

Nikita Williams (2): Yeah, and

you know, that, you made me think

222

about while you were talking about

that in business, I feel like

223

that is the case with caregiving.

224

Like, I feel like you have to

do the same thing in the way you

225

care, and I can imagine with your

son, you know, there's the...

226

You kind of developed those skills in, in

that space that can translate into yours.

227

So what did that look like for you?

228

Julie Cole: I 100% agree with

what you just said there.

229

I gotta tell you, like, I was, I

was just thinking today, and I do

230

think about this often because, you

know, when I, when the business was a

231

startup 23 years ago, so was my family.

232

You know, I had a bunch of little babies.

233

Nikita Williams (2): Yes.

234

Julie Cole: A- and, and now, like, you

know, we've gone through that growth,

235

and, like, every time, whether it was

with my family, with the children, or

236

with the business, I thought I knew what

I was doing, there would be a change.

237

Suddenly, you know, we have

eight employees, so we need to,

238

uh, know something about HR.

239

And then suddenly I'm like, "Oh,

wait, they're not babies anymore.

240

Now they're in school.

241

Now I know, I gotta know about school-age

things and, and look up where they can

242

play ice hockey and things like that."

243

So as soon as you think

you know what you're doing,

244

whether it's with your family-

245

Nikita Williams: Mm

246

Julie Cole: and your caregiving

or your business, it all just...

247

I'm always like, "Just get comfortable

being uncomfortable," 'cause as soon

248

as you think you got it, something's

gonna change, and you're gonna have

249

to relearn, make new connections,

especially with caregiving.

250

I mean, you know, especially, like,

your kid ages out of a certain care,

251

and then you're like, "Oh, my gosh,

I, I can't have that pediatrician.

252

I can't go to that children's hospital

anymore," all of these things.

253

And we get attached.

254

I mean, you know this.

255

You get attached to your people.

256

You get attached to your educators.

257

Like, when my son had to start high

school, I'm like, "But, uh, you

258

know, I've worked so hard on these

relationships with the educators, and

259

I've invested so much, and now I have

to start over, and where do I want him

260

to go, and who's gonna be the best fit?"

261

And it's like research is a full-time job.

262

Oh.

263

Advocacy is a full-time job.

264

And, you know, like, I know my son

was getting what he needed because

265

they didn't wanna see this ugly mug

walking in the office every day saying,

266

"Why isn't he getting what he- he's

entitled to 'cause here's the Education

267

Act-" Mm ... "and this is what..."

268

You know, like, also a lawyer mom, right?

269

Yes.

270

So I was

271

Nikita Williams (2): like, and also,

I was like, also- Yeah ... yeah,

272

she's a lawyer, so she knows what

273

Julie Cole: she's talking about.

274

Nikita Williams (2): Yeah, yeah.

275

Julie Cole: Yeah.

276

And that's it.

277

But it is, like, uh, like, to do the

research to know how to advocate- Mm-hmm

278

... and to take the time to be able to go

to all the school meetings, all the

279

appointments, that's the flexibility and

the thing with caregiving that you need.

280

Nikita Williams (2): Yeah.

281

It is so amazing that we don't

realize how much those skillsets as

282

women translate to our businesses.

283

I find that a lot of women I speak

to often in these conversations,

284

they're like, "You know what?

285

You're right.

286

That does he- that did help me here.

287

That did help me-" Yes ... "lay this

groundwork, think about it a way."

288

And I think I like to bring this

aspect out in conversations because

289

there are people listening, there

are women listening that are li-

290

hesitant because they feel like they

don't have that corporate background,

291

or if they do, they don't have it

in the way that they wish they had.

292

But the very aspects of what you're

doing at home and what you have done to

293

support your community, your people, are

the skillsets that I believe, especially

294

even more so as we go into AI and

everything that's coming in the world,

295

that is actually the things that are

gonna mean the most important thing ever.

296

Julie Cole: 100%.

297

Nikita Williams (2): You know?

298

Julie Cole: 100%.

299

Yeah, I totally agree.

300

And I think also, because, you know,

I did for that hot minute go, "Oh

301

God, why did I put myself through law

school- ... and do articles and do this?

302

And it was so hard, and wah, wah, wah.

303

And now all I do is make

labels and change diapers."

304

But I gotta tell you, like,

we have to remember that.

305

And I mean, that's why

I say recovered lawyer.

306

It's kind of tongue in cheek, right?

307

Like, you know, because why I

say that is because we don't know

308

where the path is gonna take us.

309

Mm.

310

We don't know what's gonna happen.

311

We don't know if we're

gonna get a chronic illness.

312

We don't know if we're gonna have a child

with, you know, who, who's neurodivergent.

313

We don't know if...

314

We don't know.

315

There's no crystal ball.

316

And all of the things, you

know, that bring us to that

317

windy path are not for naught.

318

They're important.

319

Everything I learned at law school, I

could bring negotiating with these six

320

kids, and also, you know, to my business.

321

So I always say, like, don't

feel like you've wasted...

322

Like I, I even say to my kids,

I've got five in college right now.

323

Buy more labels, everyone.

324

Like, th- I, like, 'cause they

worry about what am I gonna do?

325

What am I gonna do, right?

326

What am I gonna be when I grow up?

327

I'm like, jobs when you get out of

college are gonna be completely different.

328

Did anyone know what AI was

when I was studying law?

329

No.

330

Did anyone know what, like, a

community manager was or, like, a,

331

you know, a social media manager

was when I, when people were

332

studying marketing 20 years ago?

333

No.

334

I'm like, just study what you

like, learn, and take those skills,

335

and they'll be transferable.

336

So don't ever regret the path,

even if you land at that, at that

337

windy one you weren't expecting.

338

Nikita Williams (2): So true.

339

So I wanna shift us for a

minute, because we know that

340

your life affects your business.

341

I personally think this.

342

I think business is personal in every way.

343

I don't care if you are not...

344

If you don't think that,

I don't know what's...

345

Anyway.

346

Julie Cole: What life are you living?

347

Not mine.

348

Nikita Williams (2):

I'm like every- Not mine

349

aspect of business affects a human or

a person or a community, whether we

350

want to, like, realize that or not.

351

And so in what ways have that personal

aspect of your business really shaped

352

the relationships, the partnerships,

the, the technology, the, the things

353

you are choosing to use in your

business, and how does that really work?

354

Like, people feel like you cannot

be personal in your business.

355

It just has to be business business.

356

What does that look like for you?

357

Julie Cole: Oh my gosh, I have

so much to say about this.

358

I mean, I'm with you,

business is personal.

359

Like to me, b- my, like Mabel's

Labels is a, is a lifestyle.

360

Like right now- Mm-hmm ... it's

actually a holiday where I am.

361

But I mean, I'm like, if I can hop

on a podcast with you, I'm going to.

362

Like this is...

363

But then maybe tomorrow, like I

don't plan on going to the office.

364

Right.

365

Whatever.

366

Yeah.

367

You know?

368

Like we, it's a, it's a lifestyle

and I think, you know, for us,

369

one of the beautiful things about

starting your own company is that

370

you can also start a culture.

371

Nikita Williams: Mm.

372

Julie Cole: A company

culture that you like.

373

And we knew when we started this company

that we could work at weird times and in

374

weird places and be highly productive.

375

Mm.

376

So we built a company around that.

377

No parent at our work has to like pretend

they're sick because they wanna go to

378

watch their kid in a Christmas play.

379

Go, tell us about it.

380

Mm-hmm.

381

Like, nobody minimizes their Facebook.

382

Like, just as long as you're getting

your work done, we don't care.

383

Uh-huh.

384

You know?

385

Just we put productivity above

everything else, and not presenteeism.

386

Mm.

387

And I think, you know, the way

that kind of innovation has been

388

brought to our products, you know,

creating a new product, has also

389

been brought to our workplace.

390

Mm-hmm.

391

So we have a very happy workplace.

392

Mm-hmm.

393

We have...

394

And when people are happy at work, and

you give them flexibility, and they

395

just focus on their productivity, I feel

like they're also very entrepreneurial.

396

Mm.

397

Which means they feel like

they have skin in the game.

398

They are also, for even like, especially

the tech people, if you give them,

399

if you bake in time for them to play

around in their tech worlds- Mm-hmm

400

then your business inevitably does

better, 'cause they figure out

401

a better way of doing something,

or they make a contact that can

402

help with this system or whatever.

403

Yeah.

404

And it's really important, A,

to keep them happy, and, and B,

405

it's, it's good for your business.

406

So I think by, you know, having a

really innovative products and having

407

a really innovative workplace based

on- You know, business is personal.

408

Mm-hmm.

409

And valuing relationships and

baking that right into our core

410

values, and core values that aren't

just, like, hanging on a wall.

411

Like, we interview by them,

hire and fire by them.

412

These are the things.

413

So that's why we just, you know, from

a business perspective, we don't have,

414

um, we don't have a lot of turnover.

415

Mm.

416

People like, you know, like working with

Mabel's, and it, it's, it's just a lot

417

of fun in it's a very special place.

418

And everyone's valued.

419

And the other thing that's really

important too is that, you know,

420

having a child on spectrum, we do

a lot of neurodivergent, uh, hires.

421

Oh.

422

So, like, a lot of our su- summer

students are neuro-spicy, and

423

they do a great job, and we try

to be inclusive in all the ways.

424

Mm-hmm.

425

So, um, I think when you bring that

kind of leadership, and I, I think women

426

often do bring that kind of leadership.

427

Yes.

428

We know women leaders and women

entrepreneurs are more philanthropic.

429

They have more inclusive workplaces.

430

There's a higher level of work

satisfaction in the workplace

431

when there are women leaders,

and that's not for no reason.

432

Nikita Williams (2): And it is

so true because we understand

433

the complexity of living, right?

434

We are s- cyclic kind of people.

435

We have ups and downs.

436

We have great days.

437

We have bad days.

438

We have kids that have those days.

439

We have family.

440

We have parents that we're taking care of.

441

There's all of these complexities

in the way that we have to

442

just show up in our own lives.

443

And so for us to build businesses

as if those things don't exist

444

is kind of just masculine.

445

Julie Cole: Yeah, exactly.

446

You know, like- Right?

447

It's, it's- ... it's exactly what it

is, and you gotta remember, like, this

448

w- this traditional workforce that we

left because it kinda pushed us out.

449

Mm-hmm.

450

It's because it was built around

men working during the day.

451

Well, they had a full-time human

adult at home taking care of all

452

of the things- Yeah ... right?

453

And it doesn't suit families today.

454

And because of the care gap in

that women are doing most of the

455

caregiving, we are the default parent.

456

We do carry the invisible load.

457

And even for women who are non-parents,

we still see that care gap.

458

They're taking care of the pets.

459

They're taking care of the neighbor.

460

They're taking care of elderly parents.

461

They're taking care of their

nieces and nephews, their best

462

f- their godchild, whatever.

463

We still see that care gap

for women who are not parents.

464

Yes.

465

So, a- and it's funny too, like, when

you mentioned, you know, elderly, I

466

even feel like, okay, wow, now my kids

are like, oh, I can take a breath.

467

A f- like, a lot of them are at

college, and they're very independent.

468

So then what happens when

your kids are that age?

469

Your parents are elderly- Yes ... when

your kids are that age, and they, you just

470

go from one kind of caregiving to another.

471

Yes.

472

So it's like we don't ever get a

break- Yeah ... until that time comes

473

when our kids are taking care of us.

474

Nikita Williams (2): Yeah.

475

To that point, though- What have you,

Julie, h- found to fi- and there's

476

a, there's so much talk around the

world right now about work/life

477

balance and harmony and work/life.

478

That's not a thing specifically within,

like, bigger corporations and companies.

479

I have my own feelings about it, but I'd

be curious to hear about, like, what type

480

of business decisions have you directly

had to make differently because of the

481

type of caregiving you are giving to your

family, to yourself, that's probably,

482

you know, I don't know, somebody on,

you know, some place that's looking

483

in going like, "That is a bad business

decision," has proved to be a good

484

decision for you and for your business?

485

Julie Cole: Well, we know it has

because we, you know, we for many years

486

did a results-only work environment,

and we still philosophically do that.

487

Mm.

488

And so it's good for the business as

far as, like I said, like retention.

489

It's been good for my family

because of the flexibility.

490

Certainly, you know, there's

been lots that's been given up

491

from, like, a pre-Mabel's, but

I mean, it can't be argued.

492

Mabel's Labels is wildly successful.

493

You know?

494

Like, we do millions and millions a

year in, in business, so you can't

495

fight the bottom line on this.

496

So you know, uh, for a few moms

who started a, a label company in a

497

basement, we showed that this is, this

is workable if you do it smart, if you

498

plan, if you, you know, do it your way.

499

You don't have to do it like the guys.

500

You do it your way.

501

Nikita Williams (2): Yeah.

502

Julie Cole: And we've

shown you that you can.

503

But there's a real problem because

a lot of women, I feel like even

504

for me, being able to leave law-

505

Nikita Williams (2): Mm

506

... Julie Cole: and start a business

came from a place of privilege.

507

Nikita Williams (2): Uh-huh.

508

Julie Cole: You know?

509

I was able to do that.

510

I mean, it was tough-

511

Nikita Williams (2): Uh-huh

512

Julie Cole: but I was able to do it.

513

And you know, we don't talk about the

privilege of being raised by parents who

514

self-regulate and, and tell you you're

smart and encourage you to be educated.

515

And so, I mean, I had

so much going for me.

516

I wasn't that brave.

517

I never thought I couldn't do things.

518

Oh.

519

So you know, there's a lot of

privilege in entrepreneurship

520

that people also don't realize.

521

I mean, you think about, like, you

know, the Kardashians making lipstick.

522

Well, everyone's gonna buy it 'cause

everyone knows their name- Yeah ... and

523

they have the money to invest in it.

524

Uh-huh.

525

Right?

526

So wealth creates wealth.

527

We know that.

528

Mm-hmm.

529

Right?

530

So I think, you know, that's,

um, that's just, just kind

531

of, kind of the reality of it.

532

But we know for women, the number of

female-owned companies that make over

533

$100,000 a year in sales is less than 2%.

534

Mm-hmm The amount of funding-

535

Nikita Williams (2): Oh

536

... Julie Cole: women startups

receive from VC is less than 2%.

537

Uh-huh.

538

And when you go to sell your

company, women are leaving

539

a lot of money on the table.

540

Mm.

541

Women are not getting in their

exits what the men are getting.

542

So we're seeing this systemic thing that

happens, which means we're not getting

543

the funding, which means we don't grow

our companies, which means we can't

544

sell our companies for the big numbers.

545

So we see that this is just

a cycle that's repeating.

546

So we need to, like, enough of the fluff.

547

We need, like, men, VCs

investing in our companies.

548

Where we're getting money now is,

like, when a woman sells her company

549

for a bazillion dollars, she's, you

know, giving money to women startups.

550

So we need more of that in the pipeline.

551

We need to make, you know, a, a, a, a

have in the boardrooms, like, "Don't

552

interrupt me," or, "She was speaking."

553

Mm.

554

Or, "Actually, don't hijack her idea."

555

There are all these micro-feminisms

that we need to bring to the workforce.

556

And as, like, somebody who starts

a business and provides an en-

557

you know, creates an environment

like that, it's, it's quite nice.

558

Nikita Williams (2): Oh, I love

how you just said, "Quite nice."

559

It's

560

Julie Cole: quite nice.

561

Nikita Williams (2): So Julie, when

we pull back the camera a little bit

562

for you, if you were to go back, i-

and this, very rarely do I get to talk

563

to so many, like, to a person that's

started a business way before what we

564

see in the social space now, right?

565

A lot of the...

566

Even now, I feel like just the fact of

social media, there's a lot of privilege

567

in the fact that we can literally start

a business tomorrow if you don't have

568

one, and have, you know, 500 people

find you, and it's so much easier than

569

years before the life that we live now.

570

However, with that speed, with that,

you know, expectation, and you've talked

571

about this throughout the episode about

putting some real grounded thoughts

572

around how you show up and build

whatever you're building, or continue

573

to build whatever you're building.

574

How have you maintained, and I don't

even wanna get to that p- part first.

575

I wanna know the nitty-gritty for you as

a bu- Business owner, founder, uh, just

576

an amplifier of what you've created.

577

Say to a woman who isn't with that

privilege, who isn't necessarily

578

around for people that can potentially

become their founders- Right

579

co-founders or have that income, or

they are in a corporate environment and

580

they're not sure how to transition into

that, and they are taking care of, you

581

know, someone with chronic illness or

neurodivergent spicy or elderly parents.

582

What are the things that you feel like

they need to focus and simplify on

583

to give them the, the roadway, give

them the roadway to build something?

584

Right.

585

Julie Cole: Well, I

think it's interesting.

586

Like, I think, you know, a lot of women

do have kind of their side hustles,

587

and we saw through COVID women having

these side hustles more and more.

588

And I had to laugh because I just...

589

A friend just posted about, there was

this panel about women and side hustles,

590

and they didn't have a single Black

woman on the panel, and it was like Black

591

women are the queens of the side hustle.

592

Mm-hmm.

593

And no representation there.

594

During Black History Month-

Yeah ... it was like, what is going on?

595

Because the c- contributions that are

made in that space, and because, I mean,

596

that grind that like, "I've gotta do this.

597

I've got a dream.

598

I'm going to d-," you know, and

being, doing all of the things, right?

599

Mm-hmm.

600

Having always done all of the things.

601

Mm-hmm.

602

So I think, you know,

there's, there's the, um...

603

Oh, now of course, I forget

what you, you had asked me.

604

What did you ask me?

605

Nikita Williams (2): So what I was

asking is, like, what, what are...

606

Someone who's trying to

start right now, main-

607

Julie Cole: Oh, yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah Okay Okay.

608

Yeah, what do they need?

609

So I mean, yeah, I think you

need to think about things like,

610

what is my actual capacity?

611

Mm.

612

You know, what, what do I

actually have capacity for?

613

Because people from- to me were always

like, "Well, Julie, how do you do it?

614

Like, I wanna have six kids

and I wanna start a business."

615

I'm like, "No, you don't."

616

Like, y- yeah.

617

Like, they'll be like,

"Where do you get me time?"

618

I'm like, "If you want me time,

this is not the gig for you.

619

Like, if you like going to the

salon, if you like to go for, like,

620

a little leisurely walk or have

a girls' wine night, do not have

621

six kids and start a business."

622

So it's not, you know, it,

'cause it ain't gonna happen.

623

So I think really understanding,

you know, what your capacity is.

624

I think, you know, you can

busily work away at things.

625

If you think this is the time, you know,

you're working away at things, it is...

626

I mean, it's easier in some ways,

'cause like you said, like, back in the

627

day, I mean, social media was awesome

when it came, because our product

628

is very word-of-mouth, word-of-mom.

629

Moms talk about products we love- Yes

... like it's our full-time job, right?

630

So they were talking about Mabel's Labels

at, like, daycare drop-offs and stuff.

631

But when social media hit, man, those

mommy bloggers and Facebook moms went

632

to town talking about our product, and

it really leveled the playing field.

633

Mm.

634

To your point, like, all of a sudden,

I'm like, I can, I have access to

635

the producer at the Today Show.

636

Mm.

637

I have access to the editor of

the Parents Magazine, right?

638

And you could just join

in conversations there.

639

And now, um, that's

all there, and I agree.

640

Like, the startup, the barrier to entry

now, like I was at a, a conference,

641

Econ North, and these young ones were,

young people were talking about their

642

business ideas and what they'd created

in, like, a couple of days, and I'm

643

like, in the old days, that would've

taken me eight months to create.

644

But because there's AI tools and because

of a lot of other things going on, but

645

then you also have that economy of,

like, a lot of people are doing it.

646

Yes.

647

There's a lot of noise.

648

So I think the important thing to do

is to make sure, and this is how we've

649

kept our spark after all these years

and why we're such a, such a loved

650

family brand, is that we're relatable.

651

We're just like every other mom.

652

We're visible.

653

You know, you gotta get out there.

654

You gotta keep turning up.

655

Show up, because visibility creates

credibility, which creates loyalty,

656

and that is where your customers

are going to keep coming back-

657

Mm ... and that's what you want.

658

So I think, you know, for that woman who's

thinking about it, think about capacity.

659

Think about what you can do quietly on

the sidelines, and then when you're ready

660

to go, you get out there, you use every

contact you have, and start turning up.

661

Nikita Williams (2): Yes.

662

Yes.

663

I love that, and I love that

you started off with capacity.

664

Not a lot of business strategy things,

conversations we talk about is, that's

665

not the first conversation we hear.

666

We often hear, you know- Is

it something that people want?

667

That's important.

668

Yes.

669

Is it something that's, you

know, something that you

670

can be behind and you enjoy?

671

That's important.

672

But if you don't have the

capacity for either of those

673

things, it's not gonna work.

674

Julie Cole: Right.

675

It's not gonna work, and if your family

doesn't understand what that's gonna

676

look like, and the thing is, when we're

talking from a caregiving perspective

677

or a chronic illness perspective or

dealing with the other things that

678

other people aren't dealing with, you

know, our capacity is a little impa-

679

impacted a little differently- Yes

680

to, you know, that young 30-year-old

man who has no family and just is

681

like, "Yay, let's go, bro," right?

682

Right.

683

Like, it's different when you're

in that caregiving capacity.

684

Nikita Williams (2): Yeah,

caregiving defines our success

685

and our path differently.

686

It changes, like, how we view our

personality, how we view our, uh,

687

our, our, our, like, our profession.

688

Like, what we're going to do, it

changes that, and I think we have to

689

bring some, like, normalcy to that.

690

I feel like there's a lot of shame and

there's a lot of judgment in this space

691

at times around w- that looking different.

692

I wonder how have you- Mm-hmm ... seen

that kind of morph more into...

693

I don't know.

694

Is it a more positive mainstream

conversation now that you see, or that...

695

or do you feel like we have- Right

... less conversation about that now?

696

Julie Cole: I, I think that we're getting

more conversation about it, because as

697

we have more women sort of leaders or

willing, you know, to be unapologetic

698

about, you know, we have, you know,

women doing self-advocacy around, you

699

know, stuff that they're dealing with.

700

Even it's interesting now that I'm, like,

just in that, you know, menopause space.

701

Suddenly I'm like, "Oh, yeah, this

generation of women, we're not taking

702

that gaslighting that the doctors have

been feeding us- Mm-hmm ... about,

703

you know, how we can't have hormones."

704

I'm like, "Give me the estrogen."

705

And so we'll advocate.

706

We...

707

You know, we know, yeah, we,

we won't be gaslit, and I see

708

that in a, in a lot of ways.

709

These conversations are coming out

more, and then we, as we have, like,

710

women who are kind of leading with,

you know, no shame in my game, and

711

building companies that also create

space for caregiving and honoring it,

712

and they're not being shamed around it.

713

So it's not like that old boys club.

714

We also see...

715

You know, 'cause we also see the pay gap.

716

You know, women leaders make less

than 80% of what male leaders.

717

Mm-hmm.

718

We know when...

719

You know, even government

representation, there's so...

720

Like, we're just not there, so

we need to keep pushing forward,

721

turning up in those spaces.

722

And I always say, like, "I walk

through that door, and I'm holding it

723

open for the woman right behind me-

Mm ... and I'm pulling you through."

724

Mm-hmm.

725

And we need that from kind of, like,

the next elders who can, like, lead

726

by example and raise each other up.

727

Nikita Williams (2): Yeah, so true.

728

I, I wanna get a little granular.

729

I cannot talk today on this for a

second- I like to talk in threes

730

about, like, what are we actually

doing to create that space for someone

731

who is behind us and is in a room.

732

I, I, I've heard this, um, before

where it's like, you know, say their

733

names in the rooms that you're not in.

734

But how do you say those names?

735

How do you get to know those people?

736

How do you encourage, you know, those that

are, you know, who over here grinding it

737

out, hustling out, whatever it is that

they're doing, caregiving, taking care,

738

living with chronic illness themselves,

without, like, exasperating their issues?

739

How have you found some

tools or ways of doing that?

740

Julie Cole: Yeah, I think

also now with tech, you know,

741

people are more accessible.

742

So I know, like, for me,

I do a lot of mentoring.

743

Mm-hmm.

744

Um, and also honestly saying names in

rooms and being like, "I have got somebody

745

you need to have on your podcast, and

I actually already have three people

746

I need you to have on your podcast."

747

And like, you know, and keeping

people front of mind and doing

748

things like liking their posts.

749

You- there's so many ways just to

encourage to say kind words, to give

750

them a tip off, to share their post

on LinkedIn, anything, just to kind

751

of keep, you know, raising them up.

752

And yeah, and the mentoring.

753

And, and paying them.

754

Like, businesses, I...

755

International Women's Day is coming up.

756

I do a lot of speaking

International Women's Day.

757

I'm like, you know what?

758

This is not a time for our

male allies to be talking.

759

Pass us the mic.

760

We got the one day.

761

Let us all do the talking.

762

You know?

763

So, you know, I won't go to events and

speak at events when they have, oh,

764

we also have males speaking as allies.

765

I'm like, "No."

766

And you know what?

767

If you have a budget for A buffet,

you have a budget to pay me.

768

Mm, mm.

769

So make sure, you know, that

all- women are getting paid.

770

How many freebies are

you asked for, right?

771

Mm-hmm.

772

Like consulting or speaking

or whatever, and they'll be

773

like, "Well, I'll promote you."

774

I- women don't need more inspiration

and fluff or pr- promotion.

775

We need money.

776

Mm.

777

So pay us.

778

Mm.

779

Pay us the money, right?

780

Say that

781

Nikita Williams (2): again

for the people in the

782

Julie Cole: back.

783

Yeah.

784

You got that

785

Nikita Williams (2): right.

786

Yes, I agree with you.

787

I think there's a lot of different

levels to that conversation alone, but

788

I, uh, really appreciate you sh- saying

that because I do think even if you

789

are not in the room that you think you

wanna be in, still say people's names

790

in the rooms that you currently are in.

791

And you never- Yeah ... know

where that might lead.

792

You never know how that may help

the person behind you, beside

793

you, in front of you, whatever.

794

I definitely believe that is

a, a huge part of it, and so.

795

Julie Cole: For sure.

796

And, like, another easy win is, like,

supporting women-owned businesses.

797

My lawyer, a woman.

798

My photographer, a woman.

799

You know, my baker, a woman.

800

Nikita Williams (2): Mm-hmm.

801

Julie Cole: I don't bake cakes.

802

I have six kids.

803

I do not bake cakes.

804

I'll make the labels.

805

You bake the cakes.

806

Let's everybody do what we're good

at- ... and pay each other to do it.

807

I

808

Nikita Williams (2): love that.

809

So if you were to go back in time to Julie

you and be like, "Okay, I'm doing this

810

again" ... as a, as a mom, as a caregiver,

as, as, as a new aspiring entrepreneur,

811

what advice would you give way back Julie?

812

Julie Cole: To way back Julie?

813

You know what?

814

Not a lot.

815

I'd be like, "You know what?

816

Just make sure you keep an open mind.

817

Y- you got the right attitude.

818

You'll be fine.

819

The kids are all right.

820

You're not saving lives here.

821

You're making labels.

822

The kids, you know, you don't

need to track them all the time.

823

They're gonna come home.

824

Like, it's fine.

825

It's fine."

826

You know, I just think we

make such a big deal out of

827

everything, so I think I'm okay.

828

I think maybe one thing I

would've done differently is I

829

probably would've got help sooner.

830

Nikita Williams: Mm.

831

Julie Cole: And I would advise,

like, no sh- and I do think women get

832

caught in this cycle of like, well,

you know, I know for me it was like,

833

well, I left the traditional workforce

so I could be with my kids and do my

834

business, so why would I get help with

my kids so I could do my business?

835

You know, it just...

836

But that's ridiculous.

837

So eventually I got a nanny

when my fifth kid turned one,

838

and that was three kids, Julie.

839

So get the help.

840

Have somebody clean your

frigging house, people.

841

Mm-hmm.

842

Okay?

843

I don't, I know, whatever, it's expensive,

but whenever, once every two weeks I

844

always say, "If it's too expensive,

feed your kids more Kraft dinner."

845

Nikita Williams (2): I love that.

846

It's so- That's a great piece of advice.

847

I think so true- Get help ... to

the fact of not just in your

848

business do you need help.

849

Even if you don't have kids.

850

I have a good 50 per- 50% in

this audience that listens that

851

are moms, caregivers for elders.

852

And then- Yeah ... there are

people who are, like, single.

853

I call them DINK, double income, no kids.

854

And you still need to

855

Julie Cole: Need

856

Nikita Williams (2): some help-

You need somebody to clean your

857

house ... clear your house, because

those things are a part of it.

858

Because

859

Julie Cole: it's ch- it's also

cheaper than marriage counseling.

860

It

861

Nikita Williams (2): helps keep

the things, you know, moving.

862

Yeah.

863

Like, take something off of your plate.

864

Exactly.

865

Yes.

866

You don't

867

Julie Cole: wanna become the

Bickersons over, like, countertops.

868

Nikita Williams (2): Seriously.

869

It's not worth it.

870

Life's too short.

871

It's not worth it.

872

Yeah.

873

It's not worth it.

874

Yeah.

875

Well, I so appreciate you spending some

time with me today and sharing a bit about

876

what caregiving has led to your business

looking like, feeling like, and just

877

how I really truly love how it's kind of

shaped how you've built what you've built.

878

And it's okay, and it works, people.

879

I know I've been saying this for, like,

10 years on this podcast, but business

880

is personal, and doing it the way that

works for you is never a bad thing.

881

It's

882

Julie Cole: good for business.

883

Nikita Williams (2):

It's good for business.

884

So-

885

Julie Cole: Yeah

886

... Nikita Williams (2): the last thing

I'd like to end off with is, is

887

there something in your business

that you thought was true before

888

you started that you now believe

was a whole bunch of hogwash?

889

Like, it was, like,

890

Julie Cole: a lie.

891

Ooh, that's a good question.

892

Hmm.

893

I don't think so.

894

I mean, I think for me, it

was so long ago, I don't even

895

know what I was thinking.

896

You know?

897

Like, I was so sleep-deprived.

898

My kid had just been diagnosed.

899

I, like, literally didn't sleep for

10 years with all those babies, right?

900

So I don't really know what I thought.

901

I think, I think I thought,

like, "Oh, well, we'll see how

902

we go with this," you know?

903

Like, but then everything that we

did was to make it a big success.

904

Oh.

905

Like, we took minutes

our very first meeting.

906

Yeah.

907

We did a business plan.

908

We talked to the right people.

909

So it wasn't just,

like, this little thing.

910

Mm.

911

So try not to maybe think small.

912

Ooh.

913

Think big.

914

But the other thing, too, is that

you've gotta remember that it's really

915

important to let go of some stuff.

916

Mm.

917

You know, I don't know

how to make a label.

918

I haven't made a label in 10 years, and

I shouldn't know how to make a label.

919

'Cause if I was still in

the basement making labels,

920

that would be a big problem.

921

Sometimes quitting could be for winners.

922

If it's not working, if it's not

happening, you gotta know, I know,

923

like, don't cling to a mistake 'cause

you spent a long time making it.

924

Mm.

925

Sometimes you also need to know

when it's time to wrap it up,

926

take all the lessons from that,

and move it to your next project.

927

Nikita Williams (2): Mm.

928

Mic drop.

929

Love that question.

930

I love the answers I get at the end.

931

Okay, I love that.

932

Thank you so much.

933

This was, this was great.

934

This was great, great, great.

935

Julie Cole: Awesome.

936

Thanks for having me.

937

Nikita Williams: That's a wrap for this

episode of Business with Chronic Illness.

938

If you enjoyed this conversation,

be sure to follow the show, share it

939

with a friend, and leave a review.

940

It helps more entrepreneurs living

with chronic illness and autoimmune

941

disorders find these conversations.

942

You can check the show notes for links,

resources, and ways to stay connected.

943

And if you have a question or story you'd

like to share, visit craftedtothrive.com

944

to leave a voice message for the podcast.

945

I'd love to hear from you.

946

Until next time, remember, you can build

a thriving business without sacrificing

947

your health, your peace, or your profit.