Part 1 of 2: Discover the untold story behind one of Christian music’s biggest voices. In his most in‑depth interview ever, Michael Passons, founding member of the GRAMMY‑nominated group Avalon, sits down with Patrick Custer to share the highs, lows and hidden battles that shaped his journey. From singing hymns as a toddler in Yazoo City, Mississippi, to being discovered by Sparrow Records and launching Avalon in 1995, Michael takes you behind the scenes of the group’s meteoric rise. Hear how hits like “Testify to Love,” now considered a gospel classic, nearly didn’t make the cut, and why the band’s ABBA‑inspired sound stood out in the CCM world.

This rare conversation explores themes of mental health, faith and resilience without shying away from the pressure of fame, imposter syndrome and the weight of carrying a secret. Michael reflects on his connection to his mother, the power of music as therapy, and what it felt like to juggle creative success with personal turmoil. If you’ve ever struggled with perfectionism, wondered what happens backstage, or simply need encouragement on your own healing journey, this episode is for you.

And the story isn’t over - Part 1 ends just before a life‑changing revelation that will forever alter Michael’s path. In Part 2 we’ll dive into that revelation, the fallout that forced him out of Avalon, and how he rebuilt his life and faith while preparing to return to music after nearly twenty years away from the spotlight. Make sure you’re subscribed so you don’t miss it.

Takeaways:

1. In the podcast, we dive into how Avalon went from being unknown to winning an American Music Award, which was a total game changer for us!
2. Michael Passons shares his journey of stepping into the spotlight, facing challenges, and navigating the complexities of fame in Christian music.
3. We discuss the evolution of Avalon's sound and how our management played a crucial role in shaping our success during the 90s music scene.
4. The episode highlights the importance of being true to oneself while managing public expectations, especially in the Christian music industry.
5. We explore the rollercoaster of emotions that come with fame, including the struggle with imposter syndrome and the pressure to maintain a certain image.
6. Michael's heartfelt stories remind us that behind every successful artist, there are personal battles and moments of vulnerability that shape their journey.

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Are you ready to heal and grow? Start your journey with me by signing up at thepatrickcustershow.com 👈 for exclusive updates, resources and behind‑the‑scenes insights from each episode. It’s your invitation to experience “entertainment that heals,” where vulnerability becomes strength and hope is contagious.

Please click Follow on this page so you never miss an episode (and help us continue to change lives) — I appreciate every single one of you for joining this community.

Whether you’re here for your own growth or because someone you love shared this conversation, I’m grateful you’re listening and want to welcome you to The Patrick Custer Show family. Please pass this episode along to friends, family and anyone who might need a lift. When we open up about our struggles and triumphs, we remind each other that we’re not broken, we’re becoming.

Subscribe to my YouTube channel for video versions of the show 👉 here.

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🤝 Sponsor Spotlight – Bright Horse Counseling

We’d like to thank our episode sponsor Bright Horse Counseling, one of Nashville’s most respected therapy practices. Their clinicians specialize in trauma, PTSD, personality disorders, anxiety, addiction, maternal mental health, couples work and more. Bright Horse blends embodiment, insight and research‑backed modalities like DBT, EMDR and trauma‑informed yoga. They offer secure telehealth anywhere in Tennessee and have a no‑nonsense relational style.

1. Website: talktobrighthorse.com
2. Phone: 615‑637‑7000
3. Instagram

Companies mentioned in this episode:

1. Avalon
2. Michael W. Smith
3. Sandy Patty
4. Stephen Curtis Chapman
5. Twyla Paris
6. Larnell Harris
7. Point of Grace
8. Sparrow Records
9. Jars of Clay
10. P.O.D.
11. Bright Horse Counseling
12. Lizzie Harrigan

Y' all hit really big success.

We were set up to be successful. It was the next week. He says, how would you feel about being in a group? They introduced us and the place went crazy.

And the winner is Avalon. This is Avalon's first American Music Award.

Three months ago, we didn't know there was an award for our kind of music here at the AMAs. And here we are.

We're going on a bit of a roller coaster because the story is just.

That there was always this counterpart in Christian music that you would find in mainstream. And he thought, we need to put a group together that kind of looks like abba. And that was the birth of what would become Avalon.

Because our manager was the guy who created the Young Messiah. He puts his new group where 13, 15,000 people a night are singing right next to Michael W. Smith and Sandy Patty.

Up until the week before, they were my heroes and now we're peers sharing a stage. And I just. I didn't know what to do with myself.

There's not a playbook for that.

There wasn't one for me. If it is, I forgot to ask for a copy. It's difficult to not let it get to you when people are grabbing at your clothes, screaming your name.

We're supposed to be spreading a message of a belief system and a figure Jesus, but yet people aren't yelling Jesus name, they're yelling my name. I was ill equipped to handle it. I felt like I slipped through a door that I shouldn't have gone through. But it was open.

It was the opportunity I was given and I took it, and I'm thankful for it.

We skipped over a few things, though.

This is the Patrick Custer show, and today's guest is someone who rarely speaks publicly about his journey. Michael Passens helped launch one of Christian music's biggest groups, yet you've never heard his story like this before.

Have you ever wondered what happens behind the spotlight or how someone navigates fame while carrying an invisible weight? In this episode, we explore themes of self discovery, spiritual evolution, and creative resilience.

Whether you're listening on your favorite podcast platform or watching along on YouTube, if you love music and if you've ever struggled to live up to expectations, or if you're simply looking for encouragement, you won't want to miss this conversation. This is Michael's most in depth interview ever. And he opens up about hopes, regrets, and the power of trusting your own journey.

While you engage with this episode, make sure to subscribe, like and share the Patrick Custer show on whichever platform you prefer. Follow us on social media at the Patrick Custer show so you don't miss any updates. Your support helps us bring more stories like this to life.

I'm so excited to be here with you all and even more excited to be here with my friend Michael Passens.

Patrick, thank you. Thank you for the invite. I'm excited as well.

I'm so honored and I'm so excited.

For your fans that are tuning in to get to hear potentially sides of you and your story that you haven't talked about before and parts of your encouragement that you've been through that, you know, the newness of it. We grow and evolve as, as life goes on, and that's going to be a lot of what we talk about.

Yes. Evolution is kind of like a thing theme for my life now, more so than I ever thought.

I, I, I've said this before, but you know those little capsules that you would dissolve in water and dinosaur sponge would pop out? I love those. As a kid, well, I could not.

Go to Cracker Barrel without forcing my mama or my grandma to buy me.

At least six of them.

Yeah. A six pack. Yeah. Well, I'm, I'm that dinosaur sponge. There's no way I'm going back in that little capsule. So that's kind of how I equate evolution.

I'm on the other side of a line that I never envisioned I would be on as a young man. But, you know, I think of it in the respect that I didn't draw the line. So I'm just fine being on this side of where I am.

I've come to love it and accept myself that way.

I love seeing the side of you because when you see somebody that has found a freedom that in a huge way, they were living in a cage that we keep ourselves in.

Yeah. And you don't know it.

Right. And this iteration of you is so special and contagious. And that's the biggest reason why I'm so excited to share your story.

It is a roller coaster that goes through so many highs and lows and storms. Like going through storms and overcoming the adversity that life throws at us is all about what we're doing on this show.

And I think that's important.

It's important for the stories to be told and for the stories to be heard because there's so many people out there who are going through a similar storm.

Yeah.

And just to know they're not alone.

I still, I mean, it's been a many years since I've been in the spotlight, but I'm, I still get Instagram messages all the time from people in a storm similar to mine, like, how did you do this? How can I do this? Them talking to me. And those are, those are big questions.

I'm not sure I am fully qualified to answer a lot of them, but all I can do is just tell them how I did it.

Right.

And hopefully that's some sort of, clears up some sort of the confusion so they can see a way out. Because the last thing I want is for someone to feel like they're, they're stuck.

If you're listening right now and you've been feeling stuck, overwhelmed, or tired of repeating the same emotional patterns, listen up. There's real help available. Today's episode is brought to you by Bright Horse Counseling, one of Nashville's most respected therapy practices.

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Everything about our life is unique. You can't put the exact same template for what worked for you.

There's so many nuances.

Right.

And for me, you know, I, I had, I have a wonderful family that, you know, Maybe they're not 100% on board, but they are enough on board for me. And that's not the same for everyone. Some people have been abandoned by their families. Yeah.

You know, and, and that breaks my heart because I, I'm blessed to have A wonderful family that understands who supports me. And I actually wrote a.

Wrote a song recently about the fact that I never confided in my mother about the struggles in my life, and she passed away before I did. So that's what the song is about. And the name of the song is trust your love.

I wish I had trusted her love, because she, she would ask me, michael, why are you so sad? And I knew that she knew, but I just didn't have the courage to be honest. And I wish I had.

I wish I'd given her the opportunity to love me through that. And so it's, it's, it is a regret of mine.

How long ago did she pass?

2008. She had Alzheimer's, so it, it was a slow, difficult process.

But I, I, I tend to use my music now to, to honor her in several songs or my family, my father. It's. It's good therapy. It's just so much a part of a human that's that indescribable part of our spirit.

It is.

We're gonna get to so much of the healing, and we're coming full circle to that music, but we're going on a bit of a roller coaster because the story is just that. And so buckle up, and here we go. Yeah, here we go. You know, this isn't. This, this isn't easy.

So I'm gonna say from the front end, thank you for opening up, up again publicly, and I'm glad you're in a place where you feel healthy enough to. And healed enough to be able to do that. So let's go back to compare and contrast. Let's go. Let's go back to that late 80s 90s era.

That's when I moved to Nashville.

Oh, gosh. I think we gotta go back just a little bit. What? What?

Yeah.

So when you were a youngster, what made you decide to pursue Christian music?

Okay, so I was always musical. When I was just a toddler, I would climb on the stool of the piano and start playing melodies that I'd heard at church.

And so that was when my parents clued in that that I have a really big interest in this. It's more than just, you know, banging. I, I was actually making music as, As a toddler.

And so it was always a love, not just an interest, a love of mine. And I. I went to a really small country church where I'm from in Mississippi. Yazoo City, Mississippi.

And eventually, starting about the seventh grade, I played for church. I played the organ, and then I played the Piano, and I would sing. And then I went on to Mississippi College close by and got a degree in. In music.

And so it's just. It's been a lifelong. It's just part of me. It's my DNA.

Was it music? Performance Music?

It was piano. Emphasis on piano. So I got a classical music degree.

Wow.

I don't think I've used that degree as much as I've used the experiences while I was at college. That's where I blossomed. And so if. If college didn't give me a usable degree, it gave me.

It gave me something even more just becoming a person that I felt like I was locked in. In my small town, I was pegged. In my small town, I couldn't. I couldn't bloom. And when I went to college, I bloomed. And backing up a little bit. I.

My being from that small town. There was a member of the Grand Ole Opry from my small town. He was a comedian named Jerry Clower, and he and my dad were good friends.

Was this when the Opry was still at the Ryman?

No, it had moved. It had been over at the new Opry house about two and a half years at that point.

Okay.

And so.

See it fresh?

Yeah.

Yeah. The paint still smelt new.

Roy Acuff, legendary Opry member, was just standing at the back door like the preacher at a church, shaking your hand as you came in. And that just really lit a fire in me, that this town was special, and I was just a boy.

Absolutely. I think what is the. I hear all the time they say, like, once you're.

Once you're 20 years or longer, you get to call yourself a Nader, a Nate, a native.

That's. That's. That's a good thing. I. I'm glad that I can be called that, because I love this town.

Me, too. I love being a part of the. What keeps change and. And keeps change going, and the good propels the good, and. And it's hard to do that when you.

You move to think about people who move around a lot. I think it's. It makes it much more difficult to be part of a community change.

Changer. I actually tried LA out for a brief moment. About 12 years ago, I moved to Hollywood, made some wonderful friends there.

But I realized I had so much community here, it would be so hard to rebuild it. So I, I came back and I'm glad I did because I've just got, I've got family here.

My family's moved here from Mississippi and friends that are family to me. Yeah, it's a healthy place to be.

Well, and it's a fun city to live in now too, because it's just like we have, it's. We have so much fun, new stuff and just grow, growing more and more.

If I don't go down a street in four weeks, I don't recognize it because there are new buildings that weren't there a month ago. Yeah, yeah.

So you said as a kid you would play things you heard. And I'm asking this because of a relation here, because I played 14, 12, 12, 14 years of classical. Nice.

Not college.

And I could, I did not keep it up. I can probably, I can do my scales and that's it right now. And because I played by ear.

Yes.

I can't sit down in front of a piece of music and play.

I mean, like, I could do a note at a time if I had to, but that was one of the things that I got, I mean, I constantly got in trouble for was because my, my, all, all of my teachers were like, you will learn how to.

Sit down in front of a.

You relied on your ear.

Yes, I was, I played by ear.

Yeah.

Period.

And well, I, I use that trick. I would, my, I would go to piano lessons and as a kid and I would ask my piano, she would lay down a new piece of music for me to learn that week.

I'm like, well, could you play it first?

Right.

And she didn't clue in at first. And then it hit her on down the road.

He is wanting me to play this for him so he can go home and play it by ear instead of learning how to read the notes. And she was right. And so when, even when I went to college, I excelled in the ear training classes.

I was like, where all, all my classmates were like struggling.

Did your ear even need any training?

No. I mean, and, and so that was a breeze. But when it came to theory, that's when I was the guy making all the frowny faces.

And it was, it was hard for me to buckle down same and do that.

I had a very strict, like the last teacher I had for, I don't know, through high school, middle school, high School. Uh, she. Side note. I was homeschooled my whole life. So every single teacher I had that wasn't.

My mom was, like, private, whatever that did there, you know, Like.

Yes. Okay.

She had her own, like, program of all of her, like, prodigy. I was not a prodigy piano person, but I was taught alongside all of them. I mean, she had her own, like, I don't know, Mozart statuettes of these.

Yeah, the busts. You got to have the busts of the great. And Mozart and Beethoven.

Is that a thing with Other thing? Okay. She was the first piano teacher I had ever seen that had that. And I remember being like.

She explained the difficulty of when you.

Get this and you get. I never got one, by the way.

I'm sorry, Patrick. If you receive an Amazon package with a bust in it, I don't know, maybe it's. For me, that would be a really.

Funny thing, because I haven't talked about that. I have not talked about that story, period, since that period, that time in my life.

It's because that's good to open up these scars and let's the healing begin.

Let's set the stage. You moved to Nashville, did you? Did you?

I had no plan, by the way, when I moved here.

I love hearing that, because I'm.

I had goals. I just had no plan of how to make it happen.

Did you have a very defined, like, I want to do this, I want to do this, I want to do this. Or like, an umbrella.

I wanted to be signed to a Christian music label. That was my goal.

What did you know of Christian music, the Christian music industry and artists?

All that I could know from an album, covering credits. That's all I knew. I mean, I didn't know the inner workings of the industry when I moved here.

All I knew is the records I was playing and all the credits I was reading. And I love reading all the credits.

And I loved reading all the little personal notes that an artist would write at the end, like, kind of like their little personal jokes that they would put in the comments. And I just wanted to be part of that world.

You'd always pull the jacket out and read the whole entire.

Read it all, all the lyrics, all the little extra comments.

We just lost everyone under 40.

It's a good history lesson.

Yeah.

That's how things used to be when you actually could hold a hard copy of something and not just stream it. But I fell in love with Christian music, and I started hearing it at youth camp. I would go to youth camp. I'm like, wait, who who's singing?

What is that? And then I'm like, this is a thing. Like this is music about God and it sounds like this.

There is a difference between how it was then versus how it is now. So like you've got the, the hillsong united, the almost the, the. The trendy worship. Who's. That's turned into. I don't know how to explain it.

It's a blurred line, artists, you know what I mean? It's blurred line between like an artist song and a worship song and.

Right. But I feel like the line was less. What was it more or less.

I'm not sure if it's more alert or less. When I was growing up, there was no such thing as praise and worship.

I mean there were courses that you did sing at church out of little youth type hymnal type things. But as far as.

Well, you grew up Baptist, see, in the Pentecostal Church.

Okay, maybe it was. But I will say that what I was exposed to was more like singer, songwriter, pop music type stuff that, that Christian artists were putting out.

Just thinking about the individual who may not have been, maybe loves Christian music now or wasn't around then or never been exposed to Christian music. We're going to take you on a journey so you can understand all of the nuances there.

Yeah.

And so 90, you move here with the roommate and you're going to get signed by a Christian, a record label which they're all.

Yeah, that was my, that was my.

Intention at the time. I don't know if they still are or not, but at the time they were all based out of Nashville.

Yeah, at that time there was one major player, Sparrow Records, that was based in Southern California and they had just moved to Nashville. So really that made Nashville the place for all of them. And so that's why I wanted to come here, you know, just fresh off the boat.

I didn't know what I was doing. So I just basically plugged in with the church.

I found a church in Franklin, started playing for their services and wonderful people there still, still really good friends with many of those people all these years later.

But there was this lady that went to church there and she was an older lady at the time, but she was a firecracker and she wanted to be my manager because I would sing at church, I would play at church and she said, I think I can do something with you. And she, she wasn't a big player. She was just kind of had a mom and pop little thing going, management.

And so I started doing youth camps around the country and just kind of getting my, my feet wet there as far as traveling and. But I owe a lot to.

Her name is Audrey Lennox and I owe a lot to her because she put together a band for me and she said, michael, let's do a showcase. I'm going to invite some record people. But this is five years in. This was 95. Okay.

And she's saying, let's, let's do a, let's hire a band, let's do some of your songs. Because I had done a custom record in Nashville and that was my first real record of just some songs I'd written.

He says, I was at your showcase. How would you feel about being in a group? And I had never entertained that thought before.

And of course I was just excited to have someone from the industry interested in what I was doing. And so I, I would definitely love to meet with you. And that was the birth of what would become Avalon.

From that meeting, how long was the, the gestation period?

Yeah, that was February 28th of 95. And we were opening up the Young Messiah Thanksgiving that year. So that made my head spin because no one knew who we were.

We were rushing to get a Christmas song recorded so that we would have something to sing on a tour with Stephen Curtis and Twyla Paris and Larnell Harris. Which Christmas song was that we recorded? Angels we have Heard on High. It was a really upbeat kind of disco version.

Who else was on that tour with you?

Stephen Curtis, Twyla Paris, Larnell Harris. For him, Point of Grace. Sandy Patty was on it the next year. Wayne Watson. There was about 20.

Wow.

They, up until the week before, they were my heroes and now we're peers sharing a stage and I just, I didn't know what to do with myself. I was just. It was a pinch me moment really, to be there with people I respected so much.

And I had listened to their music for years and so, yeah, it's there. I. They're actually clips of it on YouTube. Yes. I go down wormholes sometime and I, I see all these clips from back then.

I'm like, wow, what little Michael must.

Have been Thinking, I've heard you say that before. And there's this little tinge of. I feel like there's this little tinge of you feeling a little embarrassed about going down those wormholes.

And I don't think you should at all.

I think I like to be reminded of where I came from.

As you should.

Yeah.

And some of those interviews I see that are old interviews of us in media, they're cringy, but I'm thankful that it's an evolution.

Well, before we get into why it's cringy, if you were to describe for our audience the pop, the Christian music artist world, what did that look like in this period in time versus the secular, for those of you who don't know. And in the Christian world, that's how we would refer to as non Christian music. Right. Like, what's the compare and contrast of.

The environment of CCM versus mainstream? Yeah, yeah, One statement.

I can say that for anyone who hasn't tried to make the comparison or doesn't know what the comparison is, there was always this counterpart in Christian music that you would find in mainstream. So if you were to. If you really liked NSync, you would like +1. If you like, you know, Richard Marks, you might like Stephen Curtis Chapman.

And so not that. Not that any of those artists were mimicking. They're great artists in their own right.

But I do feel like in some cases groups and artists may have been signed because they sounded like, look like a mainstream artist. And they thought, well, this is a really good market plan. And for us, our manager then.

I think that still happens today.

Oh, it, it does. I. I see it. I don't really listen to much CCM anymore, but there's some artists I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah, the formula's still there.

In our case, our manager, he was originally from Scotland, so he was, you know, English, Scottish, and he loved abba and he thought, we need to put a group together that kind of looks like abba. And so that was really why we came to be.

That makes so much sense.

Wow. I didn't never do that.

So they tried to find a group that was already there. They could not find a group that they liked to be this new group for Sparrow Records. So they decided, well, let's just make it.

Let's just put one together. And so I was the first one in. And from there I kind of.

I did help the record label and management begin to seek out and approve other members to be in.

I want to sidestep here and ask you A personal question really quick. When I hear you talk about your career now then whatever your major was, piano, obviously.

But you've got a beautiful voice and I feel like you lean, heavy and lead with talking about your skill of piano. And I'm curious if there is or has been a narrative of your voice being an afterthought in it all.

I do feel like I'm a better piano player than I am a singer. And I am the first to say I'm not the best singer in this town. So I'm by far.

Neither is Taylor Swift.

Well, that's, that's what I've always gone back to. It's, it's, it's where you show up, where you get the opportunity there, there at.

To be honest, I felt that when it was all said and done and we had all the singers in place for Avalon, I felt like I was there, the least equipped person in the group vocally. So I did struggle with some insecurities there because I had. They were amazing singers in a certain way. They were belty, amazing full voice singers.

I'm more of, you know, breathy, give me a story song, let me sing that kind of thing, you know. And so there was a little bit of a mismatch there, but we made it work.

By the time we hit our third, fourth record, we had settled in with Brown Banister as our producer and he took the time. We went through so many microphones finding the right one for me.

He took the time to find not only the best equipment, but just to really hone a sound for me. And I credit him for making me feel comfortable in my own skin.

Because by the time the Christmas record came around, I was really pleased with how it sounded. Whereas the other records, I'm like, if I could sing that over today, I wish I could.

You know how many records came before the Christmas album?

Three, really. We had the first one, which was called Avalon. Then we had A Maze of Grace which Testified a Love was on. And then we did In a Different Light.

So you did the first single five years before that album ever came out?

Yes.

Wow. Well, and what we re recorded that single as we did a different arrangement of it by that time.

It sounds very much like that young Messiah Christmas carol Angels we have heard on High. But by the time it made Joy the Christmas record, there were several different singers in the group by that time. And also Brown Banister took the.

The arrangement. It sounds similar.

By several different singers, don't you mean one just got replaced over and over and over?

Or that one. But do you want to know the. The juicy parts?

Yeah. Okay.

You got to go back to 95 and me helping put this group together.

Let's go back because we. We skipped some stairs. So 95 getting the group together.

There was.

There were probably three to four people that said, yes, I'm in that called the next week and said, no, I've changed my mind. And so I don't. I. I could go down. Go down the list and tell you several people. And some of them did.

Some of them just went on to just, you know, music business wasn't for them. Are any of them like someone you would know?

Yeah.

No. Okay. Lori Whitesides was one. Lori Wilshire. She and her husband went on to have a group called Wilshire. Oh, yeah, she was in it.

Except I'm southern enough that I call it Wilshire Wilshire.

But she. She decided, you know, I want to do something else. And I respect that. But we got the group together.

I mean, yo, Messiah tour always started the day after Thanksgiving. Every year that it happened, it happened many years. We had to be ready by the day after Thanksgiving.

And that was your first.

That's the first time we ever stepped on stage. It was me and Jana Long Potter then Jana Potter. We're the only two of that original young Messiah that ended up being in the group.

The other two, Rick Kittleman and Tabitha Fair, great singers. They did the tour that was the original, original, original Avalon. After the tour, we started doing the record.

Our first producer was Charlie Peacock. It was our first record called Avalon. And we were, I don't know, two songs into recording, tracking. Rick and Tabitha decided it wasn't for them.

And at that point, I'm like, gosh, this isn't going to happen. You know, I was having doubts. This just isn't going to happen. And so that's when we started calling around.

And by April of that year, we had found Jody. So this was almost. This was six months after Avalon took the stage for the first time. We found Jody and then it took another couple of months.

Was he in truth at that point?

Yeah.

Okay.

So we stole him from Truth, another group. And then we found Nikki. She was at Belmont University, and Belmont always does these showcases at the end of their year.

It's kind of like their senior recitals. And Nikki Hasman, who is now Nikki Anders, was doing her showcase and she was recommended, so she came in.

And so if you listen to our very first record really closely, you will hear voices of those other members in the background, because it would have. In the background vocals, not the leads. But it was getting to be a very expensive record because we kept losing people and wasting time. And so we.

We kept some of their vocals. And so that was the evolution of the first Avalon that you saw on an album cover. That's how that happened.

And then, of course, Nikki did two records with us and she wanted to pursue a solo career herself. And that's when we found Sherry Pagliotta, who's now Sherri Adams.

Sherry stayed for several records and then was replaced by my dear friend Melissa Green. So. And that's. We love Melissa. That is a short history lesson in how. How it all evolved.

We skipped over a few things, though, so I don't know that there was another group that y' all hit really big success with a song called Testify to Love, which. That song being so big and what it was, I mean, even today it still has traction and people recognize it from.

I'm amazed by that because I recently sung it at a Country Music Week event this past spring and I was just really amazed at how it was.

See, could you see the crowd? Like the mouths of the crowd?

I can see a little bit. Yeah.

There were people singing along throughout. And y', all, we're talking about. I keep saying Broadway. It's Second Avenue, right off of Broadway. And like this. This wasn't a Christian event.

No, it wasn't at all.

And it was ages. From all across the spectrum. People drove from near and far. They, as they always do for CMA Week.

My heart just was so happy because.

This is the first time getting to see you come back on stage after a long hiatus from music and open up your heart and gift and just reclaim something that we'll get into more explanation about. But it was such a beautiful thing to be able to participate and see.

You do that was a full, full.

3,360 degree healing moment.

It was. And I wasn't prepared for that. I was backstage drinking Red Bull and doing vocalises because I had not sung in a long time.

I'm like, what is going to come out? So it was great.

The band hit it spot on it sounded like the old Testify and, and I, I love that moment because when I finally pieced together three or four different friends iPhone versions of it and put it on my Instagram, I couldn't believe the engagement. I don't. I, I left the spotlight well before social media ever was a thing. So I don't have a huge Instagram following. But I got crazy engagement.

It's like this is a 20 something year old song and it's just still resonating and it, I think to this point it was resonating because of how I was singing it now. I was singing it differently. I was singing it as a different man. And it, it hit, it hit something.

It's multi dimensional because there are so many meanings that can be relative to the individual. The lyrics are great, period.

It's a broad stroke of just a song about love.

Yes. It's perfect in so many ways.

Thank you for your encouragement about it. Yes.

In all the ways. So there are some people probably listening going okay, what are they, why are they getting all juicy about this? All right, so you set the stage for.

You're just a youngster, wide eyed youngster that's 22, 25. However old time.

Whatever you said. Yeah, let's go with that.

And you've got your goal, you got your. The record label, they form the group. But even still there's no guarantees.

And it's so, I mean like you don't know what's going to happen especially at the time back then you get signed and, and whether you make it, whether you don't make it. There's a lot.

Right. It's the whole spaghetti noodle test. Like throw it on the wall, see if it sticks.

The risk of it not sticking.

Oh, there was tons of noodles that fell off the wall.

Right. But like for many people who the when the clump falls they're like we're not throwing any more noodles and the shelving happens.

Yeah, there was a lot of that. I'll tell you.

Because our manager was the guy who created the Young Messiah and so he puts his new group where 13, 15,000 people a night are seeing them singing right next to Michael W. Smith and Sandy Patty. And so that was the best launching pad any group could ever have. And you know, Sparrow made us a priority.

You know, it wasn't like, okay, let's just see if they'll, you know, succeed. They pushed us. They made sure their radio guys were pushing us. They pushed us in every way they could.

Pr you shared how when you came in, you were like, I didn't know. I just knew I wanted to be signed to a label.

And you know, all this stuff, you get signed and you're like, I never thought about being part of a group, but I said yes because I'm. What an opportunity. You're doing it.

Did you, did you realize at that point, hindsight being 20 20, obviously you can see so much force for the trees, but did you know at that point as you're, as you're surrounded by all of the Christian music greats, but then also you're, I'm sure, connected to the people that are trying to make it as well that are, you know, signed onto the label, but not necessarily. How. What was the narrative going on in your head at that point of how you navigated the world?

I felt like I slipped through a door that I shouldn't have gone through, but it was open. I almost felt like imposter syndrome because it's like, this is too good to be true. You know, I'm. I'm sharing dressing rooms with all my heroes.

They don't know who I am, but I adore them. I'm like questioning, you know, is if and when this house of cars is going to fall. Because that, that was always in my mind.

It's like, how long can this go? Because this was my dream and I'm getting it at an early age. So I don't really have a backup plan. I don't really have another dream.

Does any artist have a back?

I mean, maybe not some.

Some of the weirdos in a good way. Every now and then I'll hear somebody that I cannot for the life of me think of them right now, but there's like a couple of them that I like.

That someone who's a major star, that an engineer. Yeah. Rebel Wilson.

She's a, she's a like, I think, full blown attorney.

Oh really?

Non practicing.

See that makes me like her more.

Right. But I don't think that's, that's typical.

And no, because you see yourself once you get in that position where I was, you see yourself just riding into the sunset with this being your life forever. And you have buses and you know, catering at 5 and then you make another record and do it all over again.

So tell us how Testified I Love came to be.

It's actually a song that was recorded by the writers of the song in Europe. They are from Holland, so it was actually recorded in Europe. The two markets never mix, and so no one would ever know that.

But our A and R guy found it somehow, played it for us. We all loved it, but we were already well into finishing that record.

So when you say it wasn't just a demo that somebody had in Holland, like, somebody had already put it out as their own.

We listened to their single fan finished version of it as our demo. Oh, wow. And beautiful song. I must admit. I didn't see how. I didn't see its potential when I first heard it.

And so when we were almost finished with our second record, they're like, okay, well, we have to do this song now. We have to do Testify. Who wants to go do it? And we were also weary of the recording process. No one was doing this.

No one had their hand up in the air immediately. And I'm like, I'll go do it. And at that time, we were recording out.

And by doing it, you mean do the lead vocals.

Yeah, just go down there and sing it. Like, put it in my key. I'll do it. And so we were recording in Franklin, Tennessee, which is about a 20. It.

It in the 90s, you could get there in 20 minutes. But it was a house in a neighborhood. You know, that's really how Nashville has evolved now. Very few people record on Music Row.

They're recording in houses, have great studios. Yeah. So we recording in a house in Franklin. The back bedroom was converted into the vocal booth. And I remember going in there. It was an evening, and.

And singing the song. And it was. I was giving my input. It was my idea to do the key change. Like, it was to hold over the modulation. The modulation it was.

That's the best part.

It was my idea to hold that note over and go into the next. And so we were putting in some good input, but just had no idea that that song would. Would take off and be the song that we were known for.

Our record label wanted us to name the record Testify to Love. And I was talking to the girl. I'm like, but, you know, a Maze of Grace, that's. That was another song. That's such a cool title.

I think we should name it that. And so the group got together, and we stood firm, and. And we were wrong. We should have named the record Testify to Love.

We probably would have gone platinum. Hindsight again.

The song still did.

I admit that I was wrong.

Oh, man, the song still did so much. How quickly did it gain momentum?

Well, the marketing plan was always to release a song before the record was released. And so our first records were always released. Our first several records were always released the day after Christmas.

For some reason, that was their marketing plan December 26th. But October was when they would release the first single.

They released Testify early, and it just like the radio stations just wouldn't stop playing it.

It was crazy immediately.

Yeah, it was. I mean, we were singing it on every morning show in the country, you know, getting up at 4 so we could be on Good Morning Dallas.

And it was, it was just. Everybody just wanted to hear the song. And I remember because as a new artist, you start doing these gigs and you're like, welcome, Avalon.

You're like, you know, like that and like. And I can remember the change. I don't remember where I was.

I just remember it was somewhere in the heartland, maybe Oklahoma, and they introduced us and the place went crazy. And I'm like, okay, something's different here. And it was the power of radio getting that song out there and people knowing who we were and.

And from that point on, it was. It was a crazy ride.

Did you experience pivot in your self confidence and the relationship with the imposter syndrome?

Yes. Yes. You know, it's difficult to not let it get to you when people are grabbing at your clothes, screaming your name.

And I know that I'm just me, but you start thinking, well, gosh, how do I deal with this? Who, who am I? Who do I. How do I think of myself when this is how people are seeing me?

And my ego could have been checked better when, when things started happening, but it was just a surreal experience because I grew up a nerd. I grew up being the person that the cool kids didn't want to have anything to do with.

And so for me to be in a position now to where it's a 180 experience for me, I was ill equipped to handle it.

And on top of that being, you know, when you're raised in the church, you're doing Christian music where the. The message is obviously like, you're the, the conduit carrying the message.

There is this pool.

It's like, wait, we're supposed to be here spreading a message of, of a belief system and a figure Jesus, but yet people aren't yelling Jesus name, they're yelling my name. And so it was very Difficult to reconcile all of that at times.

I remember there was this huge event that would happen every year on the 4th of July at South Fork Ranch outside of Dallas. The South Fork, you know, from the TV show Dallas. They would use that farm as basically their Woodstock. Christian music.

Woodstock or Christian music Bonnaroo, basically. And it was 150,000 people. You couldn't see the people where they ended. There were several stacks of speakers going back.

Those are the moments where I remember, you know, having. Needing the biggest amount of security, having people try to grab at you, and it's like, how do I reconcile this? I'm. I'm supposed to be.

I'm supposed to be a shadow. I'm supposed to be a conduit, really. If you're really living what the music.

Is about, Were you able to admit that you were feeling that at the time? Were you able to identify that and put it into words?

A little bit. And we were all kind of doing it. I mean, and by all. I mean my. My bandmates, we all had our moments where we were being very diva.

Well, listen, I know both of them, and they're still divas, and I love them, but they're, you know, like.

But I. But I also.

I could cause fade and I. I'm.

I got my own diva side.

Listen, but.

And it's easy to do when everybody is that wanting around you, wanting to please you. Like, every promoter when we come in or are just whoever.

Everyone just wanted to be nice and please you, but I would see other artists who were doing it right. And so that's. That was inspiration for me.

Is there anybody specifically that comes to mind that really impacted you in that twilight?

Paris, cece Winans, just to name a few.

You can stop at cece. I love both of the. Both those women, but, I mean, they.

Were doing it right. And I. You know, I don't. I don't know them super well, but what I knew of them, what I saw of them is that they.

They had a very inspiring, humble spirit.

So I feel like I've seen Remain.

Yeah.

With CC throughout the whole, like.

Yeah.

So, you know, you get to the.

Point where you have.

You've got security. You're. You said people are, like, tugging your clothes. It's hard. It's hard to think about that quick, that. How fast that would happen.

And also in the Landscape of doing something in the name of Christ. You know, there's not a playbook for that. Well, I mean, there might be now, but there wasn't then.

Well, there wasn't one for me. If it is. I forgot to ask for a copy. But also, I had my own inner. I hate to call them struggles, but I guess at that time, they were.

So I was dealing with that, too. Like, I was dealing with hiding something that I knew would just blow it all up. And maybe I was hiding behind a little bit of ego to mask that. Maybe.

I don't know. Does this lay down into a couch? Because I feel like I need a little therapy about that still, but it doesn't.

It was a perfect storm of that part of industry history to where streaming had not happened yet. So people were going to record stores, they were buying the music. You had to buy it to hear it.

And so we really hit a sweet spot there as far as when we were a part of that. That big thing. And so it was wonderful. We. We were nominated for several Grammys. We got an American Music Award, which was crazy. Like, I. I did.

I did a podcast once where I mentioned I thought that Dick Clark had just given it to us because we were the only ones in our category that actually showed up to the awards show. And a week or so later, the guy that did the podcast, he. He sent me a message saying, yeah, someone contacted us from the American Music Awards.

They said, no, we don't do that. You won. It's like, we don't just give it away to who shows up.

And so that made me feel a little better, actually, that we were up against some big groups. Jars of Clay was one group. POD was another group that we were up against in this category of best inspirational artists.

So that was a really nice moment to know that they didn't just give it to the group that showed up.

Right?

Yeah.

To know that you were recognized for the work. Actually being recognized for your work.

Yes. Yeah.

All right. You were hiding something big. But as a. You know, for the. For the person who doesn't. A, doesn't know what it's like to grow up with this secret.

B, grow up in a conservative Christian family and then get catapulted into the public eye where you're identity, it becomes my identity.

So it's, it's. You put yourself in a very perilous situation if your identity is teetering on the edge of a really steep cliff.

And of course I go back to how naive me I was.

Any young person would be to not calculate that when you do pursue and achieve a situation where you are in the public eye, the amount of scrutiny that comes with it. Even in small beans, Nashville, Christian music. Now I get it when you see people in Entertainment Tonight or whatever, these major celebrities.

But there is still a level of scrutiny in the small pond and I wasn't prepared for it. And someone told me once, and it's very true, if you become successful, there are people who will come after you just because you were successful.

And I experienced that and that really would set me send me into panic mode. Many times when I would hear these stories of people in town trying to start rumors about me, I'm like, well, this could be career ending, you know.

And so I was dealing with those little mortar shells along the way before the big bomb went off. In the first several years, what was.

The secret you were keeping?

We've only scratched the surface of Michael's story in this first half. You've heard about childhood dreams, the thrill of performing for thousands and the pressure to be perfect.

But there's a pivotal moment ahead, an admission that changes everything and sets the stage for life altering aftermath. If you've ever felt like you had to hide who you are or you're curious about what it takes to rebuild from the ground up, stay tuned.

The next episode dives into the aftermath of a very personal revelation, the consequences that followed, and the surprising peace that emerged on the other side. I'm so glad that you've joined this episode.

Whether you're watching or listening, I want to ask you a favor to subscribe, leave a review and share the show with friends. Follow us on social media at the Patrick Custer show for behind the scenes insights and future guest announcements.

We appreciate you being part of this community and with that, I'll remind you, as always, it's never too late to start loving yourself and you're always only one decision away from a completely different life.