Learn the inside story of immigration, startups, and entrepreneurship with leading immigration attorney Tahmina Watson.

What does it take to turn the challenges of immigration into entrepreneurial success? Tahmina Watson, founder of Watson Immigration Law, Forbes Business Council member, author, and advocate, sits down with Glenn Harper and Julie Smith to discuss her own immigrant journey, the realities of U.S. immigration law, and the mindset required to build both a meaningful business and life.

In this candid conversation, listeners will learn:

• The personal story behind Tahmina’s move from the UK to America and starting over as a legal professional 02:48
• How her experiences led her to become a specialist in immigration law for entrepreneurs and startups 07:43
• Practical insights into visa options and the unique barriers immigrant entrepreneurs face in the U.S. 27:05
• What it really takes to launch and grow a values-driven law firm, including team building and business lessons 33:01
• Methods for balancing entrepreneurship, meaningful work, and self-care, plus Tamina’s surprising passion for bird photography 40:42

Whether you’re an aspiring immigrant founder, a business owner, or someone passionate about social impact, Tahmina’s transparency and expertise will inspire you to turn personal challenges into professional purpose.

This episode is brought to you by PureTax, LLC. Tax preparation services without the pressure. When all you need is to get your tax return done, take the stress out of tax season by working with a firm that has simplified the process and the pricing. Find out more about how we started.

Takeaways:

• Navigating the path from immigrant to entrepreneur requires resilience, support, and the willingness to embrace new opportunities.
• The U.S. immigration system for entrepreneurs is complex and constantly evolving, and understanding visa options and legal nuances is critical.
• Building a business as an immigrant includes unique stressors; having a mission and outlets like bird photography can sustain long-term success.
• Authorship and advocacy can amplify your impact beyond client work and open unexpected doors.

Running a business doesn’t have to run your life.

Without a business partner who holds you accountable, it’s easy to be so busy ‘doing’ business that you don’t have the right strategy to grow your business.

Stop letting your business run you. At Harper & Co CPA Plus, we know that you want to be empowered to build the lifestyle you envision. In order to do that you need a clear path to follow for success

Our clients enjoy a proactive partnership with us. Schedule a consultation with us today.

Download our free guide - Entrepreneurial Success Formula: How to Avoid Managing Your Business From Your Bank Account.

Glenn Harper, CPA, is the Owner and Managing Partner of Harper & Company CPAs Plus, a top 10 Managing Partner in the country (Accounting Today's 2022 MP Elite). His firm won the 2021 Luca Award for Firm of the Year. 

An entrepreneur and speaker, Glenn transformed his firm into an advisory-focused practice, doubling revenue and profit in two years. He teaches entrepreneurs to build financial and operational excellence, speaks nationwide to CPA firm owners about running their businesses like entrepreneurs, and consults with firms across the country. Glenn enjoys golfing, fishing, hiking, cooking, and spending time with his family.

Julie Smith, MBA, is a serial entrepreneur in the public accounting space. She is the Founder of EmpowerCPA™, Founder of PureTax, LLC, COO for Harper & Company CPAs Plus, and Co-host of the Empowering Entrepreneurs podcast. 

Named CPA.com's 2021 Innovative Practitioner of Year, Julie led Harper & Company's transition to an advisory-focused firm, doubling revenue and profit in two years. She now empowers other CPA firm owners nationwide through consulting and speaking, teaching them how to run their businesses like entrepreneurs. Julie lives in Columbus, OH with her family and enjoys travel, coaching basketball, sporting events, and the occasional shopping spree.

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Copyright 2026 Glenn Harper

Mentioned in this episode:

Brought to you by Harper & Company CPAs Plus

Running a business takes vision, grit… and the right financial partner. At Harper & Company CPAs Plus, we don’t just crunch numbers—we empower entrepreneurs. From proactive tax strategy and accounting to business advisory services, our team helps you keep more of what you earn and scale with confidence. Whether you’re launching, growing, or preparing for exit, Harper & Company is in your corner with expert guidance built for business owners like you. Visit www.harpercpaplus.com to book a complimentary discovery call today - or call us at 614-456-7222.

Brought to you by Harper & Company CPAs Plus

Hello everyone. Welcome to another edition of the Empowering Entrepreneurs Podcast. I'm Glenn

Harper. Julie Smith. What's going on, Julie? Well, you know, it's back to school.

Oh, it's the best. Not to date the podcast, but all the kids are back

in school, which means we don't stop running until next May, I

think. That's our rule. That's part of the deal. That's a package deal. It's all

good. Well, we're having a great time with our podcast today. We

have to do it a little bit later in the day than normally bright and

early because our guest has been so gracious to kind of join us from the

West Coast. So we had to go a little bit later. So, Thank you for

that. Which means we don't have any coffee. So we're currently sharing a bottle of

water. We don't know what to do with our hands because we're used to drinking,

but it's all good. We'll figure this thing out. Well, let me do a nice

introduction. I'd like to introduce a fellow entrepreneur, Tamina Watson,

founder of Watson Immigration Law. She's a member of the Forbes Business Council,

host of Tamina Talks Immigration podcast, author of The Startup Visa, and

CEO of Pinky's Shoe Bags. Last but not least, she doesn't

look like She would be in this classification based on age, but

she is way deep into the birdwatching and bird photography. We will deliver all

the— delve into all these things and see what makes Tamina tick and why she

has this unrivaled passion to be involved in everything. Tamina is

the person you call when you get lucky in the immigration lottery and your number

is called. She will take that new immigrant citizen and show them how to

become the best version of themselves by being an entrepreneur, which if any of us

can think about it, would be next to impossible to know what to do if

we became a citizen of another country and wanted to run a business. Impossible.

Her expertise is turnkey as her satisfaction comes from helping others get the opportunity

that she received many, many years ago. Allegedly, she says she

enjoys her free time in nature, but I think we can all agree that in

her free time, it is about quality, not quantity of time, as she has a

mission to serve her clients. Apparently, immigration is controversial these

days, and we cannot wait to jump in and discuss some different perspectives. Sit

back and enjoy the ride as we pick Tamina's brain. Thanks, Tamina,

for being on our show. Thank you so much for having me. And thank you

for such a beautiful introduction. I'm so grateful. We have to give him a few

minutes to like catch his breath after that one. I, I don't put the commas

in, so I just keep talking. Yeah, we can tell. No, we,

we, uh, we on this podcast, we love talking to

people, what makes them tick, how they got where they got, you know, what is

it that they do and what ultimately is their vision and purpose and all those

things. And, you know, there's a lot of controversial content out there on you,

just a boatload, but ultimately, I'm totally kidding. We're trying to

figure out, you know, where did you come from? Where'd you get here? And it

says you grew up in London. Is that true? That is true, yes. Born and

raised there? That's correct, yes. Well, you don't

have a very London-type accent. So what's going on with that? Did you get

converted when you moved to America or what? So this is my

21st year in the United States. I was born in the

UK. And then for a few years, I did live in Bangladesh. That's where my

parents had immigrated from. And then I had a Sleepless

in Seattle moment when I met my husband. I was here

on vacation, and I had a blind date set up. And

then it was long distance, and eventually I got married and I moved here. And

this is my 21st year of being married, 21st year of being in the

United States, and 20th year of being an immigration lawyer.

Wait, this is just right on par for what's happening in today's world. I know

Glenn wants to start with your childhood, so he'll go back. But what do you

think about Meghan and Harry moving back?

I have no idea what to think about that, to be honest, because, you know,

it's, it's so interesting that I, I was

a young kid when Harry was born and William were born.

And, you know, Diana, I remember being, you know, 7 or 8 years

old when Diana's wedding was live on television. Um, it

was, it was so surreal to see Harry move to the US

because, you know, the royal family doesn't move here. I don't know what

to think of it. It's— I think it's going to unfold in real time. I

think when I saw the headlines yesterday, I thought, what on earth? You know, how

is she going to make it there? But, you know, we'll

see. We'll all see in real time. This is why I'm not allowed to be

in charge of the podcast direction, so I'll hand it back over. No, no, that's

a great question. And again, people that are in

England, they follow this stuff. Like, this is a big thing. I follow this stuff.

What do you mean? Yeah, but you know, US immigration lawyers follow this

stuff too, because it's all— it's been around in a lot of our

forums. That's how I got the breaking news that now he's

moving. And then they're like, what's his immigration status? What, you know, what

happened here? So there's, there's many different angles

to one particular family. And, you know, who knows?

We'll see. We'll see. Well, so let's go back a little because

again, I'd like to get to know our guests a little bit. So your parents,

did they immigrate to England at some point? Yes, my

dad had immigrated in the '60s. And

when he got married to my mom, my mom moved to London in

the '70s. And then in the '80s, the whole family

moved to Bangladesh for a little while. And then in the '90s, we came

back. And then I continued my education and

became a barrister, one of those trial lawyers who wear

wigs and gowns. Good, good. And, you know, that was

from a little girl. I mean, my first memory was I wanted to be a

barrister. I didn't, you know, that's all I wanted to be, a trial lawyer with

a wig and gown. My father was one too. So that's

where my inspiration came from. But then I moved to the United

States and I had to restart my career and think

about what I wanted to do. And immigration kept following

me as a path, but immigration was the only thing I

didn't want to do. Wow. If there was one thing on my list that I

didn't want to do, it was immigration law. I grew up watching my father

practice immigration law. And in the olden days,

immigration law was very much a community thing to do. It wasn't the sexy thing

to do, you know? And— It was a lot of asylum as

well, and in my mind, I thought immigration law was only

asylum work. Mm-hmm. And I didn't want to have my

heartstrings just pulled on every day. Mm-hmm. It's such a, you

know, it can be tragic, it's very heavy. And

when I moved here, as I mentioned, I moved here 21 years ago, I was,

I had to study for the bar again, and I had to think about what

am I going to practice. And with a UK law degree,

I could be practicing a federal

area of law anywhere in the country, but I didn't

understand America had 50 states, 50 different, you know, legal

systems. And immigration is a federal

area of law, which means you can practice it anywhere. And as you mentioned at

the top of the hour, I live in— on the West Coast in Seattle.

And I could only take the New York Bar or the Californian

Bar with my background. So I took the New York Bar,

but that limited me in the areas of law I could

practice. And immigration law kept following me. And the 5th

time I surrendered. I said, okay, universe. I love it. I'll

just do this for, you know, a little while, and then I'll do something

else. And honest to God, the first day of immigration, I said,

why am I fighting this? If you don't want to practice asylum law,

you don't have to touch an asylum case. And I very quickly learned

that, um, I jive with people who are

brilliant entrepreneurs. And, you know, the savviness that

comes with it, the drive that comes with it, the complexity of immigration law

that is about entrepreneurship in many ways, you know, I

had a natural knack for it. And here I am 21 years

later. Was your— hold on. Was your dad, was he

employed? Was he self-employed or did he work for a firm? Oh,

good question. He was a barrister. And in the UK, barristers are

self-employed. Self-employed. So did he give you a look that said, after

you did this, I told you so? Did he say that or no? As a

good dad would have said. No, actually my dad was

actually a little upset that I was moving to another country because he wanted

me to practice with him. And

it took him a little while to get used to the fact that I wouldn't

be with him. But he was very proud. He's very proud of my

husband. My mother was definitely the woman behind the man

and me. And, you know, it was interesting. But

yeah, he was very proud that I followed his footsteps. He's definitely not mad that

you are in law in the US. He's mad probably that

his His daughter got swept up by some other man. And, and so that's

what he's mad about. He's, he's not mad that you're doing law in the US.

Um, but that's too funny. Go ahead, Jill. Do you have any brothers and sisters?

I do. They're— I have 2 siblings and they're in the UK. And are they

following in your dad's footsteps or did they do something completely different?

Very different. You know, they didn't wanna be like me for sure. Definitely

didn't wanna follow the, like, big sister's doing this and let's do

something different. So you're the oldest? I am, yeah. Okay, there you have it.

Well, that explains everything. Okay. And the reason I do this, 'cause we can profile

everybody and we can, there's a certain fact pattern that always happens.

And it's just neat that this is going on. So, you know,

there's 2 things that happen when some, when people are, uh, that we kind of

see when they become an entrepreneur. And one of those things is somebody was

influential show them that, hey, it's risky,

but it's exciting and fun. And there's a lot of reward or

that, that's the one path. Or you go work in the steady job in the

factory and do the thing, right? Or in the office and you do the thing.

Nothing's wrong with either one of them. So it sounds like the only thing you

knew was being, watching your dad be self-employed, right? So you never knew really anything

different. Is that a true statement? Well, actually, you know, I,

I didn't really know if I was going to be self-employed or not. You know,

when you go to law school, you're not necessarily learning about business. It's a

big problem. And I mean, these days you probably have seen there are coaches everywhere

for lawyers, but 21 years ago, that was not the case.

The influential person in my life to become an entrepreneur was actually my husband.

My husband is an incredible human being,

just loves me to bits. And when I was coming into a new country

trying to find my feet again, I initially was

working with somebody and it wasn't going well. But my

husband said to me, you know, why don't you just try something on

your own? And if you fail, I will still love you.

And those were the words that got me into my own firm. And

here I am. So I have to ask too, where did you meet your husband

on vacation? In Seattle. I had a sleepless in

Seattle moment where— Oh, literally sleepless in Seattle. So I was just thinking that

was a, you know, Yeah. Okay. Legit. Yeah. Yeah. We

had, we had some family friends who brought us together. How

about that? And my fam, my, my, my, my mom's sister and his

colleagues brought us together. Okay. Well, that's the best thing

ever. So ultimately, you know, uh,

some entrepreneurs, they look back and reflect and they say, you know,

since I was 8 or 10, I was doing this or saw, a

family member, a mentor doing this entrepreneurial thing. I was curious about it.

And other times it just comes outta nowhere. So you weren't basically

coached per se, or led down the path where your dad's like saying, hey, you

really should become an entrepreneur like I am.

Well, he was more like, hey, you figure life out, we'll see how that goes.

Or were you more, was he more like, hey, you really should go do this?

It was more like, be a lawyer. Just be a lawyer on your own. Like,

be a lawyer. Uh, but the legal system in the UK is actually pretty

different from what it is here. The education system,

how you practice law. And in the UK, there are 2 distinct

pathways. One is being a trial lawyer or barrister, or a

transactional lawyer, a solicitor. And a solicitor can

be employed in a law firm, or they could have

their own law firm and be an entrepreneur. But barristers typically

will be under one umbrella called chambers,

And they would all be self-employed. And so to me,

I did not necessarily understand that as such. That was

not necessarily the goal. The goal was to be a lawyer. My parents had a

dream. I had a dream. How that was going to unfold, you know,

obviously we're seeing now. But the goal was to be a barrister, and

the self-employment wasn't necessarily the issue or the focus.

Right. It was more How to practice law. Got it. It's sort of like when

you're an accountant. Exactly. She loves it. You can be governmental, private,

corporate. The one thing I never wanted to do, numbers. I'm just kidding.

I do that for her because she gets a kick out of it. Okay. So—

Wait, I have a question. I want to know. So you talked about how immigration

just kept hitting you in the face as you were going through, maybe I want

to do this, maybe I want to do this. You started out with the New

York bar. Walk me through some of the things that you did

that, and then, and then like highlight what was the immigration that was hitting you

in the face as you kind of walked these steps to get to where you

are. So first I moved to a new country, so

I had to go through immigration myself. Um, and then I had to take the

bar exams, but that also was a challenge because I had

been studying forever and I had just started working in the UK

as a, you know, very young barrister doing all the menial

tasks that a newcomer does. But I had

finished my studies, so I was not going to go to law school again.

And when I kept calling, you know, advisors

about how to become a lawyer in another country, I

kept being guided to go to law school again. And I was like,

no thank you, that's not happening. And so when I learned

that I could take the bar exams for New York, I

obviously did that. And then it became a

sort of a big aha moment that, my goodness, just because

I've got the New York bar exam doesn't mean I can work anywhere I want

because the legal system is so different and I've never lived anywhere but Seattle.

And so it took a little while, and I was doing a lot of, like,

work experiences, internships, externships to

sort of learn about the law

and make connections and

understand different issues.

And it was at that time, you know, my law

license and all of the things that needed to happen to work all came

together at the same time. And when I started to look for a

job, I realized, oh goodness, this is not going to be

easy. I had essentially

put myself out there a lot, you know, with a lot of volunteer work,

and I was meeting people. And

the first one came from a nonprofit saying, you know, we've got a

position, you should apply. And I already knew I didn't want to

do immigration. In fact, the funny story is I knew I wasn't going to do

immigration work, so I had signed up with a temp agency, and

I said, you know, They said, what do you want to do? I said, well,

you know, I'm never going to do immigration. Put me in something immigration, you know,

because I'm never going to meet these people again. Whoops.

And the terminology in the law is different, too. So, in the

UK, a legal assistant is generally a paralegal. A

legal assistant in the US is essentially a secretary. And

so, at this temp agency, they sent me to an

immigration department at a law firm as a legal assistant. And I was just

very happy to be out of the house. Right. My husband, who's a lawyer as

well, used to, you know, I just realized after, you know,

dating and then getting married, realizing how many hours he works. He's working

all the hours. And I'm a newlywed. I've got, you know, he's my only, he's

my only person. And so I was happy to get out of the

house and get any job. And I said yes to being a

legal assistant at the law firm. But it was one

day there, and I realized I'm going to be photocopying all day. So I

stomped my way home and I'm like, husband, I'm a

secretary. How did this happen? And he's like, it's

okay, I still love you.

And the next day I got a job offer in

immigration and I thought, you know, I'll just do this. I'll take this. That was

my 5th immigration job offer. And I said, I'll do it. And

so I went and told this other secretary who was teaching me, to be a

secretary, and I said, you know, I'm going to be an immigration lawyer tomorrow or

next week. And she went and told on me, and then the, the

managing partner of that department summoned me in and said, I'm so sorry, you know,

you can't be here anymore. You're going to be an immigration lawyer next week. So

I was sort of escorted out of the, of the, of the department. And

what's funny is I would, you know, I— nobody knew me. I was so

happy that I was a secretary. Nobody knew me because these people became my colleagues.

And it's, it's, there was one person who was

so kind. You know those people that are so nice to the

waitresses at restaurants and they pay attention? This was that kind of

guy. And he was so kind. And, but he's

the only person who really remembered me from those secretarial days. So I had

lunch with him not so long ago and we just had a big laugh. He's

like, you know, you were with us for a hot minute and then you've done

all of this. It's, um, That was essentially the

journey of, I didn't want to be an immigration lawyer, but the

universe of immigration kept pulling me in until I said, okay, I

succumb. And I have to assume your husband is not an

immigration lawyer. That's correct. Yes. He's not an immigration

lawyer. How about that? So, you know, one of

the cool things is when you became an immigration lawyer, you

worked at a firm then, right? And you got hired for them. At some point

you worked there for X amount of time and you're like, you know what? Why

am I giving them 70% of this? I should do this on my own. So

you went there for a certain amount of time. Did you go in there thinking

you'd go on your own or you went there thinking you'd climb that corporate ladder

in that firm? Do you recall? Yes. It's an

interesting story, actually. It's slightly different. Love a good story. Uh,

yeah. My own immigration lawyer, uh, was

going through some life changes. And when all of my,

um, issues came together and I, I could work,

she was like, well, why don't you work with me? Why don't you become a

partner? And to me, partnership sounds amazing.

And, you know, again, I don't know any different, and this is a job,

and so be it, it's immigration, but it's a job. And I said yes.

And, uh, I very quickly learned

that a law firm is a business and somebody has to run the

business. And this person was not the right person who knew how to run a

business because she was going through life changes that

propelled her to run a business that she didn't know how to run. She was

a very good lawyer. And so,

interestingly enough, our bookkeeper one day summoned us.

And I, you know, I'm very new. I have no idea about any of these

things. No. They've summoned us and the bookkeeper's like, well, you

guys are not sending invoices out and you're not doing any of this right and

you owe us more money. And the more you do

wrong and incorrectly, the more work it is for us to

fix it. So we need to teach you how to do this. So I

learned how to do bookkeeping from our bookkeeper because

my partner wasn't doing it right.

And I very quickly learned that to pay

bills, whether it's the electricity or the rent for

the office, somebody needs to do the work and invoice and

all the things that you're supposed to do. I thought I was going to be

learning from this person. I didn't. And it was

really a year and a half later when I

realized this couldn't work, but I was too scared to do anything else.

When my husband said, just go and try this on your own. And if you

fail, I'll still love you. And that was the beginning of the rest of my

life. Isn't it funny in school,

like even if you weren't just immigrated here,

the same challenges face anybody who wants to be an entrepreneur. We, we don't know.

There's nobody teaching anybody how to do it. It's like this secret that is

not out there. I mean, there's a lot of things today. You can find a

lot of things. But back in the day, you're on an island by yourself

and your experience of like, I don't even know how to do this, is the

same as somebody else that goes on their own. They don't know what to do.

It's the hardest thing ever. And thank God we have more tools today to do

that. But is that what got you saying, hey,

gonna go on my own, and 'cause if I'm gonna do it, I might as

well do it for myself? I assume that's what happened. And then I

suspect at that point you're like, Here's a nice niche I could be in, cuz

now I've been through the whole process. I've navigated the whole thing. I

could do a, a lot of good for a few people

instead of a little good for a lot of people.

You've touched on something very interesting because I think a

lot of lawyers probably feel the same in that you've

learned the academia and academic

part of it, but nobody, or like an accountant, nobody's really told you how to

run a business. And in the UK, as I

mentioned earlier, there are the 2 tracks. There's the transactional

lawyer and the trial lawyer. The transactional lawyers are actually taught some

of these things at school, but not the trial

lawyer. They're not taught that. So all of what we had

to learn was how to stand on your feet and, you know,

argue and negotiate and all of, you know, be in court. But when I

moved here, I had to learn trial by fire, so to speak, as

I just mentioned. But what was interesting is I still

wanted to practice immigration law. And the first, as I mentioned

earlier, that I was like, why was I fighting this? This immigration is a

fast-moving area, not as fast— it wasn't as fast

then as it is now, of course. Yeah. But it was— I could

see the impact on somebody's life, you know, within a

reasonable amount of time. And all of it's complicated. Where do you

file? And what is the legality of this and eligibility of it?

And then how to bill for that. And as I'm learning all of these things,

I opened my own doors to Watson Immigration Law January

1st, 2009. But if you can cast your memory

back to 2008 and '09, it really was

the beginning of a similar scenarios to what we saw in

2021 and 2022. The recession, people being laid off.

And I had just opened my doors and living in Seattle

where the headquarters of Microsoft and big companies are here, people were being laid off.

Immigrants, high-skilled immigrants were being laid off. So

number one, I was a little scared to open my own doors because I didn't

know what to expect, but I was going with the flow. And

we had this economic situation happening that was

propelling people to call my phone. And

what transpired over and over again was these

high-skilled immigrants who had a desire to be entrepreneurs

but were not necessarily ready to be entrepreneurs because they had a

steady paycheck with families and mortgages to pay.

But if you are a high-skilled immigrant and you don't

have valid employment, you are now

unlawfully in the United States. And so the calls

that I got were basically saying, I want my own

startup, help me get a visa for my startup. So

as I was learning how to run my own business, you know, it's almost like,

I don't know if you've heard this sort of saying that if you want to

learn about how to nurture a newborn baby, go to a mother of a newborn

baby because a teenager mom has forgotten all of those things. I had

just started my business, and I'm still learning that there are quarterly

taxes to pay and invoices. And, you know, that learning doesn't go

away even after 21 years. But those people who are just

trying to get on the ladder while immigrate— you know,

navigating the immigration minefield became

a natural sort of connection for me. I could understand

them. They could sort of relate to me. And I think that connection

help me sort of get— one of the

things I said to a client once is they came to me and said, well,

that's my dream. And I realized in that moment,

gosh, all these dreams that I had— Mm-hmm. Were

coming together in America. That's the American dream. Oh my

gosh, I'm living the American dream. Oh my gosh, each of these people who have

ever uttered the word dream, I've got to even push myself

harder to make their dreams come true. And so that

entrepreneurship angle, from my own

perspective, but also the client's perspective,

really propelled my own career. It

started this trajectory that I didn't know I

would be following. So

the immigration law for entrepreneurs is the—

are these Folks that are coming here on a temporary work

basis, or are these becoming— going to become citizens and become

entrepreneurs, or is it both that you work with? It can be both.

Okay. But the trajectory, if you like, could be

threefold. Number one, international students come

here. They often do these entrepreneurship classes and

then go into cohorts, and then they have these ideas. they need a

visa for, you know, running their startup. That's one category.

The other category is you've been at Microsoft for 10 years, but you have this

burning desire to be an entrepreneur. You

wait for your green card and then you become an entrepreneur. You don't necessarily need

me at that point. You're— you've got a green card and you're all set. But

what if you're that Microsoft person waiting for that green card? You're in a line

to get a green card. There's no real line. It's sort of invisible. Mm-hmm. But

now you've been laid off and you're sort of

compelled to take that step. And a lot of

my clients are like that. And the third prong is

that people who are very successful outside the United States

see the opportunity that America can bring their businesses to

themselves and they expand into the US. So I do a lot of US

expansion work as well. Well, who knew there

was all those different kinds of ways you can do that? And, but, and you

know, it's funny, the, the one that, um, probably

sticks, that's probably the most urgent is probably somebody

who has been here fully assimilated, doing their thing,

living the dream, and then they lose their job and they have the— they're going

to be gone if they're not gainfully employed. That's probably the most urgent,

I'm guessing. that needs the help the most, right? Absolutely.

And this is what really put me on the map because in

2008 and '09, when I saw the gap in the

immigration system. So our immigration system is from the

1950s and '60s. And the most recent update was in

1990, which established all the visa categories that we

have. So you've probably heard about O visa, H-1B visa,

et cetera. But there was never a startup visa.

So in 2009, when I started to work with these entrepreneurs,

they were aspiring entrepreneurs, and then I helped them get there.

I started to write about it. Why don't we have a visa for startups?

And what was very interesting is a lot of VCs and angel

investors, people who are investing in high-skilled immigrants, could also see the

problem. And so they were advocating in their own silo

And in— and I was doing what I was doing. And around

2010 was the first time Congress has had a bill

called the Startup Visa Bill. And it was a result

of a lot of these advocacy groups that had

come up from the VC world and the tech

world accelerators. And when I saw that bill, I was like,

that's the answer. And so there was a merging

of some of these people that came together. And I

have been working with them since. Now a lot of people know about it. But

as you might know, lawyers are often about billable time,

you know. But as an entrepreneur, I

recognized, I had an aha moment one day, oh,

I could actually help make law. Mm-hmm. It's not

just about lawyering. It's about the impact I can have

and be, be the voice for the people who, who need

a pathway and don't have it. So that became honestly

one of the propellers of my career to this day.

And I've written so much now. I have books. I have— my first

book was called The Startup Visa. It's the series, it's called The

Startup Visa. And it was really inspired by a

client of mine who is a VC who became a

VC and is one of the earliest VCs in Africa.

And he said, Tamina, you have so much content. You know, you should

just write a book. I'm like, oh, yes, I should write a book. And,

you know, I've never written a book before. I just had this false

notion that I have so much content, it's a book already. It's

only when I started writing it that I realized, ah,

content on a blog or articles written at different times for different

audience— Different. Doesn't gel and become a book

together. But it really did start the book

authorship journey for me. And eventually, I did have a

publisher initially. It was a well-known VC who had a publishing

company. But they said to me, we'll write this book. Of course, we'll publish this

book. Of course, this is right up our alley. But it will be an ebook

only. And I realized, if I'm going to speak to a

senator or a congressperson, I'm going to walk away with the book

in their hands and an ebook is not gonna do it. Nope.

That's how I became a self-published author. Um, and it really

started my authorship journey. It's so funny,

entrepreneurs, they're just like, they, they see opportunity and

instead of going, oh, that looks hard, they're like, I can do that. I can

do that. Let's fix that. Let's do it. Really? I was like, well, how much

free time did she really have? She had no free time. Zero. Zero. Zero. And

that's the cool part about it. And again, it seems

like you get to pick and choose

probably now more than you did before. Not that it would matter, but you get

to pick and choose your clientele to say, man,

this person, man, they got it. I'm going to help them. They are going to

make a difference. They're here to be the best version of

themselves, to help the country do the things wherever that immigration would be at,

and versus somebody who's like, hey, I just need to get in and I'm going

to say I'm doing this, but I'm really not. You probably can disintegrate that pretty

quickly when you look at a client, probably, because it's got to be

rewarding. I'm very lucky at this stage.

People that I want to work with find me, and it's mutually,

you know, a mutual loving relationship.

Because I say to my clients that we're a team, you know, your

business, you know your thing, I know the law. And

when that meeting of the mind happens, it

becomes electric in the work that you can do. And

so I, yes, I'm privileged enough to be able to

do that, but I'm also very grateful and lucky that the right people

find me. So did you build a team? Or

2008, 2009, at what point do you build a team? Have you built a team?

How'd you go about building your team? Well, yeah, I love all the

questions you're asking because, you know, this is the stuff that people don't

necessarily know. It's sort of under the hood. It takes a long

time. Again, nobody teaches you how to be an entrepreneur. And suddenly

you're like, I've got to do payroll. Where is the money coming from? You know,

and whether you pay yourself or not, just like the captain of the ship, you

sink last, you know. And so I initially

had a paralegal with my previous partner, and

that paralegal was full-time. And when I was— when we

became 2 firms, I had that paralegal

for 2 days a week. And one of the things that my ex-partner said to

me was, you eat what you kill. Mm-hmm.

And what was so interesting about that, not that I really understood it, but I

took it to heart, that I've got to be out there. I've got to be

out there, you know, making sure that people know that I can help them. But

she had 13 years of experience and I had zero. And so

when calls would come in, people would naturally be calling,

wanting to speak with her, but the work didn't necessarily

trickle down to me. They would— I was bringing the work in, but she was

taking the work. So when I started my own firm, I didn't

realize how much work was coming in under my name. And

so I had this person for 2 days a week, and I very quickly realized

gosh, I need another day. But I did it very

cautiously. And the ex-partner said, okay, you can have her for 3

days a week, because she obviously realized that the work was not

coming in for her. And when I said, okay, I think I

need her for 4 days a week, and then she put her foot down saying,

no, you can't. Hmm. So then I was like, what do I do? But I'm

too scared to have somebody else. I've got 2 payrolls to do.

And, you know, eventually break through that. And, um, I'm very, very,

very lucky to have some incredible people on my team. We're

not very big, we're about 8 or 9, and, um,

I now am using some remote, uh, team members as well.

And so we're a small but mighty team. And

what's really important to know is that each of these people are loving

human beings. They love the work that they're doing.

They really see the impact that the

client is making in the universe. And we

together, we're dynamite. So I have to know, did you get

the paralegal for 4 days a week? Eventually,

she became full-time with me. She's no, she's no longer with me

anymore. Life evolves. But yes,

And the entrepreneurship fears don't ever go away. You know, it's

just, it's a different level of fear and a different level of, you know,

insecurities. And, but you push through each time and you do it

anyway and you get to the next level. I think one of the

interesting parts was I had an opportunity to do a radio show.

Everything that I've done is I've said yes to something scary. Oh, I see. And

one of them was doing a radio show. And it was a

live radio show. And I said to the person, gosh, you know,

I'm just a lawyer. You know, what am I going to do? Mm-hmm.

And he said, no, Tamina, you just tell people what they need to know.

You know, each editor, each person that's come into my life has sort of shown

me why I'm in— why my voice is important.

But when I was doing the live radio show, I was

petrified. It was so— I was just learning about— I forget what those circles are

called, you know. You know, I was sort of really, really outside of that

zone. And, um, when I

did my first radio show, or the second one, I thought, no, like, I can

do this. I can do this. And I realized I had conquered a huge

fear. Mm-hmm. And that radio show was live for 2 years, which

became my podcast. And then I had a second podcast. And

believe it or not, as life would have it, I'm doing that same live

radio show. It's a different station that just kicked off last week.

Always say yes, because it's, it's never as hard as we think it's gonna be.

But to your one point about when you're an entrepreneur, there's really those

3 core buckets. We, we are like, you're going to do the

business of being an attorney, but you have to run a business.

That can support being an attorney. And then you have to go grow the

business and be the marketing person to go bring in business. So you have to

do— somebody has to do all 3. And when you first start out, you don't

know which one. You don't even know. You think you're going to just be an

attorney, but it's like, no, that's— you end up doing less

attorney work and more running the business and,

you know, making rain than you are doing legal work. probably at some point you

have your team doing all these things. Well, I have to say, the

legal work doesn't stop. No, it's there. I mean, at the moment, I'm still

the only lawyer. I've had— Oh, geez. Throughout the times,

throughout these years, I've had lawyers off and on, and it's like any

business. So at the moment, I'm the only lawyer, but I do have an

amazing legal team. But what I was going to say

is, Nowadays,

I get bombarded with coaches, like law firm

coaching. And, you know, immigration law is

volatile and controversial. And with any business,

there's ups and downs. And do you do this or do you

not do this? And I want to say a few years

ago, when I was thinking,

well, how long am I going to do this? Can I do it this way?

I suddenly had to talk to myself and be my own coach

and say, well, I've kept a business alive for

18, 19 years. There's something to be said about that.

You can do this. Yeah. Um, and so

am I happy? Success can be defined in so many different ways. It's what's your

definition of success? So what is your definition?

I bet I know it, but I don't know. I'm still figuring it out. You

tell me what you think it is. I know exactly what it is. Your definition

of success, it's, this is bigger than you. You're helping other people

achieve people's— what kind of word is that? You're helping other people

achieve their dreams. And that's way more satisfying. Your

dream's doing just fine, but you're helping others. And that

is why you do what you do. And that's the success that you're having.

You've hit it on the nail. And immigration lawyers in this moment are actually

asking the same question of themselves over and over again.

While there are big immigration law firms, a lot of people who do

humanitarian immigration work are often entrepreneurs too.

But the work of immigration law has

never been more stressful. And how do you

sustain yourself in work like this? So I

think in this era of my practice, this era of

my business, it's become very important to me

to make sure that I am happy in my heart and my

soul. And I can do this, as

stressful as it is, I can continue to do this with love. But you've

got to inject love in yourself, otherwise you can't do that. And how

do you do that? You've got to find it. It's not just by picking an

apple from a tree. That's not how it happens. It's a journey. And

I've been on that journey, and my journey has led me to birding, bird

photography. And it's the thing that keeps me

sane and keeps me alive

and excited and curious. And because I have

something that's not purely work anymore, I

mean, again, I don't have a lot of spare time, but I, I can

inject those moments in it that allows me to do this stressful

work and sort of figure out how to keep doing it.

Can I ask you a question? So if in everybody's

career, whatever that is and whatever their business is, the, the stress,

Like, would you mind sharing with me

what is the stress that you're under? What is

causing you the stress? Is it because you want to do very well

for your client because you inherit their burden and you're trying to solve for

that? Is it because the rules are changing? You don't want to lose your

business. What is the stress that's causing you the most stress? What is that

thing? Have you defined it? Identify the issue. Yeah. All of those

things. And what I will say is, no matter what kind of business you

run, you have that, Justice Ibrahim. 100%. And, but in

the immigration lawyering field,

it is the burden of, it's somebody's livelihood or their loved ones. So

the pressure is beyond high.

And the, the expectation and the

responsibility is very heavy.

If you— that's on a good day. Mm-hmm. And when the rules are

changing on you overnight, and you don't know what to expect tomorrow, and how

you're going to be navigating that, and how that's impacting your clients,

it brings another element of stress. And

just an example, these are people who are running businesses. So, just an

example of, you know, there's a— there was a

new fee of $100,000 on H-1Bs. I don't know if you are aware

of it earlier this year. I don't know. And suddenly, whether

you're the owner of the business who needs the H-1B or you're

hiring people, you now have limitations. And that is

impacting the bottom line of your business because you can't serve your customers.

But just a story of a, you know, just ongoing,

this $100,000 on again, off again

is making the CEO think

about decisions of, am I filing? Am I not filing? Can I file

this this way? Can I not file it this way? 2 weeks ago, we made

a decision based on the $100,000 being on again, and now we

have to pivot because it's off again. And this is

somebody else's business where they have employees who also need payroll. You know,

so the pressure is, is pretty high.

And up until I found bird photography, um, I,

I didn't have a way to relieve the stress. And the—

especially during the COVID years when immigration was pretty

evolving with, with the, with the times, but also now

you've got COVID. Oh yeah. So there were procedural lockdowns.

It was probably the height of the stress. And you have to think

about, you know, obviously I've thought about closing my

law firm down too. You know, it's like you're very much at that peak

of like, what am I going to do? And

all of those are stressful. I think though, like from my standpoint, and

again, this is the woman's viewpoint over here, You're a feeler.

And I think you feel every single person's burden,

love, complication, whatever it is that walks through the door,

you feel it and you own it. And I think if I could tie

a ribbon on it, that's your stress. Yeah. And

the stress is you feel when it change— the law changes because

they feel that. And I think the birds bring you peace because they're

just out there flying and being peaceful. And they're not feeling the stress that you're

feeling, right? If I could like connect the dots, tie the bow, whatever that is,

I just think you, you're a feeler and, and that's

what it comes down to. You're not a transactional. At the big firms, everybody's just

a number. They don't care, but you care. That's the bird you're carrying. And we

know this because when we deal with our clientele, it's a very personal level

that you want to do well for them and you inherit all their problems and

all their opportunities and you feel responsible. You're not, but you feel that way

for it. But it— you're just not a transactional person. You, you

deeply want to help them, and that is a hell of a burden to carry.

So who knew birds could be the thing? Thank God you found a thing. Um,

but if you stop caring, you won't be an effective attorney as you are,

because then you're just going to— why would you even do it then? Because you

don't have a passion for it. So true. There have

been times where I said I wish I could care less, but I simply

cannot. I simply cannot. That's not the way it's going to be. Welcome to being

an entrepreneur that you care about your clients. Good luck with that. We tell everybody.

Um, well, you know, it's, it's funny too. Um, you know, I

just, I wanted to go on a side note because immigration worldwide

is such a whatever it is these days. And it

seems like it's really, There's,

it's either nationalism or the globalism,

like either it's opportunity or culture. And we're fighting this

war between the different countries, different cultures of who should do

what, where, and how. And it doesn't matter what side you're on.

There's just this massive war with these 2

things. I don't know the right answer. It's way beyond my

skillset. But you're kind of stuck in the middle of that where

it doesn't matter. You're just trying to do this task and help this person in

the current law to do this thing. You believe it to be true and you're

doing it, but you're probably catching heat from all over because

they don't even— I mean, it's not even fair that they're getting heat for that

because you're just trying to do this thing that's in the law that you're trying

to not exploit, but you're trying to help somebody out. But that would be, I

think, a very hard thing to do. Again, for me, people hate the

IRS, so they blame me. Well, I'm not the person making the tax law. I'm

just helping you trying to figure it out. Right. Um, but you probably feel a

little bit of that, correct? That it's not just the pressure of the person, it's

everything. For sure. And I, I,

this, this, um, year or 2025, the

legal profession in general has felt a lot of pressure,

um, in just in, in, the rule of law, you know, being

attacked. And so the legal system and the

legal profession itself has felt it. So

I feel it from that perspective, um, when the rules are

changing and I'm trying to figure out what to do

for clients and all of those things, that, that's it. But

you can't help but also think about the bigger picture of the world.

And exactly what you just said, and add to that the wildfires

that are around the world happening in Europe, not just the US.

There is a huge displacement of human beings. What

we really need is a world solution to immigration.

And, you know, it's, it's beyond me at this point.

Mm-hmm. I hope people who are going to the World Economic

Forum are thinking about it and coming to conclusions and ideas

that they can put out there, but we're all human beings, we're all

connected. How do we, how do we find ways that

everybody can be served? And, you

know, there are ideas about, well, if you're displaced from this country but this country

needs this type of workers, why don't we find a way to solve that? I

mean, you know, the age-old

discussion that's happened in the United States about immigration reform is Who's

picking our apples? Who's, who's doing all the agriculture work?

Who's, who's actually serving the people who

need home care, healthcare, you know, nurses?

There's a, it's much bigger than

just running a law firm. And ultimately,

you know, the only way we can navigate this as entrepreneurs and just

humans is we can only control what we can control. And all those

things, as stressful as they are, that's beyond my

skillset. I've got to focus on this task at hand. Going to be a good

spouse, be a good parent, could be a good employer,

take care of your clients and take awesome pictures of birds.

That's all you can control. Everything else, you can't do anything with that.

And it takes a long time to learn that though. To take in the pictures

of birds? Yeah, I know. That's hard. Well, no, I think the

nothing is in your control realization

takes a long time to really sort of land.

Because when you're an entrepreneur, you feel like you can fix

things. You can go out there and talk about it. You can go and convince

somebody else. But you realize

nothing is in your control. Be happy with the little bit that you

could do. And just live your life in the way that, you know, is

in the highest good of the people around you. But it takes a long time

to come to that realization. Well, you've learned, you said one thing earlier, and again,

I was making fun of this bird because it's such a true thing. It is

so relaxing because as an entrepreneur, you're just full throttle,

go, go, go 24/7. Your body, our body's not made

to that. We're made to peak and relax, peak and relax. We're not

made to go steady, right? We like to peak and going down. And

you can't go full tilt all the time. It just doesn't work. And so having

that outlet where you can now realize this and maybe step back and maybe you

can make that peak not so high and not so long, that would be ideal.

But, uh, you can't— you're so good at what you do. I can't imagine stopping

it. Wait, don't take away from my question. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. Go

ahead. Oh yeah, you're up. You're up. This is your part now. So we have

one more question and it's the hardest question of the whole podcast.

But what is your endgame?

Boom. You know, I think about that a

lot. You know, I

always thought immigration was my one and only

passion in what I wanted to do.

But bird photography has opened up

a life that I didn't know I could have. And

I used to say no to a lot of international speaking

opportunities. My kids are little— I mean, now they're teenagers, but

I was avoiding it. Once I found photography, I was

like, you know, invite me to speak in your country. I'll go and tell you

everything you need to know about U.S. immigration law, and I'll bring the birds

back and share them everywhere. That has

become true. And I now make coloring books out of

my photography. The series is called Color Your Joy.

And my new dream is to have a coloring book

for every state and every country I visit, so my bird

photography can convert that way. So I would love to

continue to figure out how I do maybe a little bit more of birding and

a little bit less of law. I don't know if that will happen, but— My

endgame is to figure out how to do them both and keep them combined.

I have become a board member of the American Birding

Association. I don't know how that happened. I said, yeah, initially I thought

it was a joke. And then I got an invitation to be on another

birding organization board. And they said to me— I said, how

did you even find me? I'm a relatively new birder. And they said, well, we're

just searching for lawyers and birders, and you're the only one who keeps coming up.

So, um, I don't know. I'm following the journey of life

and I'm trying to make sure that I keep joy

and love as my north star in whatever I do.

And I'll keep going that way. You answered it perfectly.

There is no endgame. You're just on the journey. You're just gonna keep going.

You know, it's funny, everybody has to do their entrepreneurial journey to support all

the other cool stuff that it opens up for them to do. Because if you

had like a real job, and you would go in and go to do it

and check out, you wouldn't have such a high or such a low.

You probably wouldn't do birding. You'd probably do something else and you wouldn't

really find your true passion because you're not pushed to go find it.

So if we, we call that an enabler, when you're an entrepreneur, it enables you

to do these other things that are way outside. You never would probably, you probably

would never have done birding if you weren't doing what you're doing today. I love

it. You know, it's such an aha moment for me. I did. I don't know

if I would've thought about it that way, but it's— you guys have the

entrepreneurship stuff like really nailed down. And

we're just winging it. Don't, don't, don't be fooled over there. This is so much

fun. I don't believe it. It's so much fun. Well, we

can't thank you enough for being on our show. I don't know if you wanna

give a, a plug to your company and book or what, and your podcast for

listeners. The coloring books. Yeah, the coloring books would be great. Oh my gosh. Thank

you for the opportunity to speak. Speak about this. I don't always get to talk

about the journey of, of all that we chatted about.

My law firm is watsonimmigrationlaw.com. If people are

trying to start companies, investing in companies, um, trying to

hire their, you know, employees and growing, expanding into the

US, I'm your woman for that. Um, if you want to talk birds,

I can talk your ear off. Um, you can find a lot of my writing,

uh, at my author website. That's

taminawatson.com. If you wanted to feast your eyes

on beautiful colorful birds, my photography website is

tamina-watson.pixels.com.

But taminawatson.com will have everything. And, you know, I will just

leave people with the fact that wellness is a really

important part of entrepreneurship, but you don't get to

think about it until you're on your knees. Because you really just keep going and

going and going until you realize you can't get up anymore. And then you're forced

to find something. And that's how birding came to my life. And now I'm a

big advocate for finding joy. The trick

question, do you know what the Ohio State bird is?

Goldfinch? Cardinal. Cardinal. No, I didn't know

that. Well, you won't forget it now. You won't forget. And our, the famous bird

is the snipe. If you ever look at that, we've got that in Ohio, snipe

hunting. So yes. So that'd be fun. Well, thank you. Well,

Tamina, thanks again for being on the show. Always appreciate a great guest. And I

hope this was helpful for you, for you as it was for us. Again, thank

you all for joining us on the Empowering Entrepreneurs Podcast. I'm Glenn Harper. Julie

Smith.