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Episode 58 Stop Overwhelm and See Progress!
Episode 58 • 26th March 2024 • Getting Students to Write!/ Helping teachers transform writing time and grow writers who thrive! • Melissa C Morrison
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Are you feeling like you don't know where to go next with writing? Do you notice writers lacking progress? This episode is for you!

Whether or not you are utilizing a writing "program" with lessons already provided, you may find yourself feeling lost or unsure of how to proceed during each writing block. A program also will not ensure you are meeting each writers' needs.

In this episode, I share the ONE THING that is crucial for teaching writing and growing writers-You must KNOW THEM!

I will discuss ways to be sure you do, as well as the second integral practice for feeling secure in your planning AND seeing progress with each and every writer.

Listen in and for teacher strategies and tips that will transform your writing time and help you feel more confident as a writing teacher!

Melissa is an enthusiastic educator and continuous learner with over 18 years experience in education.  Her passion and expertise is transforming writing programs so that teachers are confident in writing instruction and student writers thrive! She strongly believes teachers are the key to effective instruction and their writers are their best resources.

Melissa knows that too often, explicit writing instruction is pushed aside in elementary education, and she feels it is her calling to help schools make it front and center, providing teachers with the knowledge and support necessary to implement effective and engaging writing instruction. 

Website and Blog Read the latest blog posts and find out more about services provided by Melissa

Instagram Follow Melissa for tips and support with writing instruction!

YouTube Find out more about teaching writing as you watch webinars and model lessons taught by Melissa



Transcripts

Speaker:

Hey there, fabulous teacher.

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Have you been wondering how to

make writing time in your classroom

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more effective for your students?

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Do you want your students

to love writing time?

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If so, I think it's time for you

and I to start transitioning.

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Transforming your writing instruction.

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I'm Melissa Marson and I have a

passion for helping teachers to feel

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confident in teaching writing and

help them grow successful writers.

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I've worked with numerous teachers to

guide them through this transformation

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and in this podcast I bring you the

practical strategies you need to make

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writing the best time of your day.

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Let's get going.

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Hey there, amazing teacher

and a welcome either.

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Welcome back or welcome

for the first time.

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I am so glad you are here.

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So I really try my best to

bring things to all of you.

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That I think are going to be helpful.

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And.

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Things that so many teachers run

into that regardless of where

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you might be in your journey.

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With student center and

writing instruction.

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This will at some point be helpful for you

because it will be something that you are

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struggling with dealing with going through

or just the, you know, Act like this

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would be the part of the journey of this

transformation for you, where you are.

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And so today I wanted to talk about things

that I've seen happen over and over again.

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It's happened for me, myself,

when I was teaching and using

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this writing instruction.

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And when I go into classrooms,

this comes up again and again.

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And it's really two things.

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One, when teachers are feeling like they

don't, they just feel so overwhelmed.

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They am not sure what to do next.

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They're not sure what direction to

take, what lessons to do, or they look

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at students and their writing and they

think I'm just not sure what to say.

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Even if they really are trying to use

the language of the writer, even if.

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They have tried to set goals

or if they have a plan.

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Sometimes we just get to that point where

we're just not sure what we're doing is

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working or we're not sure what to do next.

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And then.

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Also when teachers feel like

they don't see progress.

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When they feel like there are some

students that aren't making markets and

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I seen some students and I want to like

stress that because I'm sure, you know,

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At, or I'm sure this has happened to you,

that we tend to focus on the ones who are

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not making progress or her not doing well.

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And we don't see as much the ones

who are, we might notice it, but

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it's not what stands out in our mind.

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We tend to focus on the ones that are not.

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So that's why I say some because, or even

sometimes just a few that aren't making

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progress, but then we worry about that.

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That's what we think is

happening for everyone.

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And so I'm going to share some ideas

today, some tips and suggestions that

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is going to help with all of that.

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I do believe.

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So I'm glad you're here again, and I

hope this will be so helpful for you.

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So, what I'm going to share really

will come down to one thing.

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And then that one thing, which is

not a new thing that I've, that I'm

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going to be talking about today.

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That one thing is going to be

broken down into two parts.

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But before I get to that, I'm

going to tell you a little story.

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It's story time again.

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If you have listened to any

previous episodes, there are

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two that are called teaching.

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Writing is like coaching the high jump.

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And that came about

because of one session.

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That my daughter.

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Was in that I was there to

observe for a high jump training.

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She is lucky enough.

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Too.

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And we are lucky enough to be able

to do this for her, to be able to

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take her to a high jump trainer.

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And he is like known across the country.

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For his work and for his HighJump.

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And we just had a session recently

and it, once again, just was such

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an example to me and has so many

parallels to writing instruction.

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And so I thought I would

share that with you.

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So.

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Kelly's only been jumping for a little

while and she's recently the trainer

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helps her find one of the issues

that was really holding her back.

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And it had something to do with

just like her body positioning.

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When she was jumping over.

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And that has to do with

some other things as well.

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But this time they were working

on that, they were working

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on a couple of other things.

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And at one point she had done her.

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Run, but she didn't jump.

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So she got to the, to the bar and

she kind of just kept running.

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She didn't jump.

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And he asked her what happened.

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And at first she said, I don't

know, which is what we might hear

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a lot from our writers at times

at first she said, I don't know.

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And he said, well, I want

you to think about it.

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You know, you have to be able to analyze.

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What you're doing.

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And so I want you to

think about what happened.

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And she said.

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I lost track of the count of my steps.

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Now the thing is he had never heard

that she was counting her steps

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and he didn't want her to do that.

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And he told her that.

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And they had a conversation about that.

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And I was just thinking.

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If he had either let her

go with, I don't know.

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Right.

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And not ask her to really think about it.

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Or if he had not asked her and he

just said, okay, something happened.

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You know, okay.

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Go back and try it again.

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Jump this time.

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He wouldn't have found that out.

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And who knows when he

would have found that out?

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If he didn't find that out.

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Cali, we continue to count her steps and

it would continue to cause issues for her.

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He wants her to get to the

point where it's just natural.

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She hears the sound that she's making,

because that has to do with the speed.

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She knows the speed.

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She knows how she starting.

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She knows how she's ending in.

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So it's all just going to go and

he doesn't want her to be counting

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anything, counting the steps.

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But if he had not stopped, if he

had not asked if he just worried

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about the jump in the end game.

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He would not have known and then

she would have so struggled.

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And it just made me

think again about really.

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You know, he had to know her.

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He had to, he has to know her as a

jumper and he has to know not only

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what she's doing when she jumps,

but what's going on in her head.

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And he actually shared a lot.

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That session about the

mental part of this.

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Of this event.

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And how an actually I'm going to share

a quote because he also just a little

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side note, just because I think it's a

very interesting quote and I love it.

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He talked about the dedication and how you

have to put in work and you have to, you

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know, work on that muscle memory, which

means you have to consistently do this,

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you know, this thing over and over again.

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And then he said, you know, so

when you're going and jumping in

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and you know, you know, the number

that, the height of that bar and,

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you know, you have to get over it.

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And so if you were way in your head

thinking about that, Your your mind

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is, and this is the quote he shared

and you were in your mind will not

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let you earn or sorry, your mind.

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Mine will not let you win

what you haven't earned.

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And I thought that was so

amazing because it's, it is true.

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If you haven't proven

that you've done the work.

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You might not just be allowed to earn it.

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So I thought that was really interesting.

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So, bring it back to our writers.

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When we see a writer who is.

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Not applying many new skills or.

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Not writing as much as we would

like them to, or they used to.

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Or someone who is still not

engaging much or isn't this.

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Engaging as they used to.

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If we don't find out why, and we

don't talk to them about that.

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There may very well be something

that needs to be supported or

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you know, a mental issue that

has to be talked about that.

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We need to know in order to help.

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Sometimes it might even not

even have to do with writing.

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But it's important that we know that.

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And then even if it's not something

that's under the surface, When our

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writers are struggling with something

or we see where they are lacking.

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We then have to decide or

find out the exact area that's

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first needed to be supported.

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So I've talked before

about finding the goal.

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That's the most impactful.

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And I've talked about this in

terms of the high jump as well.

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Her coach needs to find the thing.

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That.

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Has to be corrected or

done in a certain way.

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Before other things might be corrected.

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And so for example, Because of

the way she was taking off and

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her jump, that was not correct.

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And because of that, he knew there

he didn't need to fix like the tilt

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of her head as she went over the bar

because the tilt of her head is not

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nearly as impactful as the jump itself.

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Before that he had noticed that

her jump, she wasn't, I'm sorry.

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I heard Our approach was not starting

from a further, far enough distance

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because she wasn't getting enough speed.

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If you don't get enough speed,

you're not going to be able to get

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enough height to jump over the bar.

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So he has to pick the thing that's most

impactful and in order to correct and fix.

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And it's the same thing with

some of the skills of writers.

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So.

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So just to try not to

get into it too fast.

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If there's a writer who doesn't

want to engage in writing.

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Who doesn't have much stamina in writing.

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I wouldn't necessarily worry about

their elaboration or their word

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choice as a goal for them to work on.

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Not that we could never talk about

it, but it's not their goal because if

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they don't have stamina and they don't

have enough time to practice writing,

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then they're never going to really get

to the point where the word choice is

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going to make much of a difference.

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And it's the same thing in,

and, you know, engagement.

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You might think of that.

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Not as like a writing skill,

although I do believe it is, but

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it's more of a behavior, I guess.

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And when you think about the The

more academic skill of raining.

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And you think about.

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The, you know organization and structure.

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Versus elaboration or word

choice or even mechanics.

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You might want to worry about the

structure and organization before

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you worry about anything else.

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And so.

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We need to know where they are.

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So that we can move them forward.

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And in order to do this, then

we need to ask question just

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like how his trainer asked hers.

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I asked her, but we also need

to be able to take notes.

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We need documentation or data,

whatever you want to call it.

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In order to.

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Not only know them, right.

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Because we need to look at what's

happening and then we need to look at

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writing pieces, but then we need to be

able to see it and keep track of things.

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In order to a, not feel

so overwhelmed and B.

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Help student writers to make progress.

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So let's go into that a little bit more.

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So let's start with the overall

feeling overwhelmed idea.

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And.

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I have to say another side, new

because of work that I've read of

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Bernay brown and I'm listening to her.

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I hate to, I dislike using the

word overwhelmed at times because.

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She.

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Has talked in the past about

how, when you're really

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overwhelmed, it's like serious.

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And she gives an example about working

in a restaurant, which she has done

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before, like a really high quality

stressful place to work restaurant.

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And how.

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And how, you know, when you say you're

overwhelmed, you're Bonnie, your mind is

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going to feel like you're overwhelmed.

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And so that should be, should

actually mean something right.

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You should, should really be at this

trust level that you feel overwhelmed.

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And sometimes we do use.

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That word.

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In a more exaggerated way than

it's meant, but I do think that

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oftentimes when it comes to writing

instruction, especially, and we see

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all the different things that students

are doing at all different levels.

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It is overwhelming.

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We are not sure how to help them.

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We're not sure how to move on.

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We're not sure what lessons to teach.

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We're not sure if we should.

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You know, confer or take a small

group or do more whole group.

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Should we stop and say something?

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Should we not?

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There's so many things.

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And so if you don't know your writers,

You are constantly going to be going.

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Back and forth between new

and old ideas of what to do.

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Because one day, you're

going to see this from them.

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And another day you're going

to see that and it's just going

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to be all over the police.

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But if you do know them, if you're

taking time to talk to them, look

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at their work, see what they're

doing, ask questions and you're

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understanding what's happening with them.

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You can ignore some things.

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And work on others.

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But if you don't have record of this, you

don't have some kind of notes and data.

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To plan things out and to

really be able to look at it.

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You're still going to feel as though

you're not quite sure what to do.

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So let's say, you know, I go through

my whole class and I feel like, okay,

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you know, These few are very engaged.

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Or most of them are,

there's a few that aren't.

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Some just still really

don't feel like writers.

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Some are writing a lot, all the time.

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They're really busy during writing time.

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But they can get tripped

up when this happens.

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So you feel like, you know them.

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Great.

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But then when you don't take that

information, whether you have it on

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a big data sheet or you have a page

of notes for every student, If you

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don't take that and then I'll help it.

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Let it allow you to make a plan,

then it's not really worth it.

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And so this is where the

notes come in for me.

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Because when you can see as

a class where everyone is.

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And your email to choose C goals.

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So let's say you pick those goals.

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You're like, well, these,

you still need to engage.

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These still need organization.

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These, you know, don't even

understand this genre still.

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These, you know, I would actually

move them up because I've looked at

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their work and I would say they're

really ready to elaborate more.

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Now I have.

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An idea of where my whole class is,

that's going to help my mini lessons.

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I also have an idea of where

groups of students are.

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That's going to help either small

group instruction or conferences.

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So when I walk around and look at what's

going on, I can focus on one thing.

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So when I walk around and I noticed this

student, or I want to talk with this

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student, I'm going to check on their

engagement, or I'm going to check on

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their stamina, or I'm going to check

on their volume and other things will

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come out and I'll take a note of them.

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But this is the goal

we're trying to work on.

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Right.

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So it makes a difference.

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You can even pick one or two things

that you're trying to see improve.

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So let's say you've done, you know, you

have, at first Peter piece of writing,

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you've looked at where a baseline rating

or there's something in your unit that

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you're really trying to make happen.

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You could take this one thing and

go around and look at everyone.

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And take note on where they are.

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So now, you know, okay.

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According to this goal that we have

for the unit, this is where my classes,

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so these are the lessons I want to

teach, or these are the students I

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need to meet with and, you know, talk

about this and see how I can help them.

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So knowing Rainer's, but then also having

notes and continuing to take notes.

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When you go and talk to them or

where you knew looking at your work.

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Either overall or against the

specific goals you have that is

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going to stop the overwhelm because

you have a plan, you have a focus.

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The other day I was in the

classroom of a brand new teacher.

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And so we are halfway into the year.

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And she'd really been struggling recently

with just getting through the day.

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Because there was a student who was having

a lot of behavior issues in the classroom

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and it was just taking up a lot of time.

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And, you know, I spoke with her about

it and I, and told her, I completely

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understand what that can do to your

classroom and to you and feeling

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like, you know, every day is you just

never know what's going to happen.

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But I still was wanting to help her

with writing and see what we could do.

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To be able to make some progress.

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And so not only did we kind of

talk about plans for how she can.

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Modify her schedule, knowing

that she might not get

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through everything every day.

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But we also you know, she was

not too far into her unit.

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Oh, gosh, I'm drawing a

blank on what she was doing.

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In the unit.

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But she really wasn't quite sure

how the students were doing.

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And so we said, okay let's just see.

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If the students are on genre.

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I said, you're going to do half the class.

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I'm going to do half the class.

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We're either going to look at

their writing or you're going to

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have to talk to them a little bit,

ask them some questions about it.

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And then we will just take no, are they.

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On genre.

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Are they writing about what we

want in the genre want them to

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write about or are they not?

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So I really can't remember.

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I'd have to look at my notes, but I

think it was either they had just done.

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Opinion and they're moving into.

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Informational.

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And so a lot of times students,

and this is in kindergarten.

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They're going to get a

little mixed up brighter.

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They're going to start one way and then

it's going to turn it into another way.

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So we just took, took one thing,

especially knowing we're in the beginning

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of the unit and there still are going to

be some students struggling with this.

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And then we had a list.

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Of students.

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And we may want to say yes or no.

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And then if some of them were a

little iffy, we would tell why.

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And now she knows.

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And so if the majority of her

class is still struggling with

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that, she knew she needs to do

more work with that whole class.

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If there's only a few

that are now, she knew.

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She only needs to talk to a few of them

about it, but what a difference that makes

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in her you know, feeling as though she

has a plan and she knows what to do next.

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And so even though that's not always easy

to do, especially not in one day, if I

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wasn't there, she might've taken a couple

days to do it, but it's worth while it's

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so worthwhile to take that information,

to take that data and write it down,

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look at it on paper and make a plan.

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Otherwise she's just flying

by the seat of her pants.

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And the choices she makes may or

may not be helpful for her students.

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So now when we switch it over to,

you know, feeling like you're not

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seeing progress with some students.

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I'm sure you can see where of

course, knowing your writers is

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going to be extremely important.

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And we'll talk about it.

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But then also having notes to be given

a track progress, track what you see.

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And even if you haven't

picked a specific goal.

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For that student, just seeing notes.

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Every time you go and meet with them.

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Or see them in a small group and, you

know, show what you've heard about.

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You have something to look at

to see what's going on, but

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let me just go back a second.

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Before I talk more about the nodes.

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Shock about how important it is to

know them in order to make progress.

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Let me go back to Cali for a minute.

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Let's say, you know, we.

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I talked about how the co the trainer just

found out that she was counting her steps.

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And what if he didn't hear that?

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And every single time she did her perch

to jump, she was counting her steps and it

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kept messing her up over and over again.

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And maybe wouldn't happen in the session.

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Maybe you would just happen at

practice and then happen at Her meats.

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And she just kept doing and it

just kept messing her up and

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it would inhibit her progress.

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It would inhibit her chance.

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To do well because she's doing

something that she shouldn't be doing.

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Right.

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And if he didn't know that he

wouldn't be able to help her with it.

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I can also just go back again to.

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The other parts of her jump that

needed help if he had chosen.

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This one thing that he was fixating on to.

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Talk to her about, and

let's say her head position.

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And he ignored the way that she

was jumping during her takeoff.

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She was going to continue

to have that part right.

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Or, you know, wrong, even if she did

fix her head, her jump would improve.

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And I've seen this in the classroom and

I understand it because sometimes it's

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so hard to take the time to know our

writers, but I've seen where, especially

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students who are very below or quite

a bit below most of the students.

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That those tend to be the students

who are like, I just don't know what.

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How to help them.

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Because often they are so far

below grade level that perhaps

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you're not used to that.

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Grade level, you know, if it's a second

grader, who's on a kindergarten level

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and you've never taught in a garden

and you're thinking, what should I do?

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:

Right.

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:

If it's a seventh grader who's

writing on a fourth grade.

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:

Level or were lower I'm

you've never taught that.

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And so you're not sure what to do,

so it makes it really difficult.

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And that's why we do have to

take the time to get to know

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:

them and see where they are.

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:

Because even if we're not quite sure

how to progress them, From that level.

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At least we know that we, if you

really see where they are as a writer,

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:

you know, you're not going to be

able to push them all the way up

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:

to their current grade level where

they are, you know, so far away from

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:

that, that it just wouldn't happen.

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But recently in a first grade

classroom, there was a student where

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a teacher was really struggling with.

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You know, they were still.

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Very close to where they were in

the beginning of the school year.

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And they're thinking, you know, we're

getting closer and closer to second

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:

grade and they're still not writing.

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Every day.

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:

And what they knew is that when

this student had support and when

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someone was like sitting with them,

let's say, or if they were in.

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:

Phonics time and they had to write some

dictations that, and there's something

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:

that, that student couldn't do it.

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:

They can get some things

down on the paper.

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:

They could write what you would

say, or they would maybe come up

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:

with more things to say and end up

writing it if someone was with them,

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:

but when they were on their own.

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They just weren't there

just wasn't much coming up.

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:

But what we also found out, not only

that was they, this child wasn't even

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:

wanting to compose with pictures,

they were just weren't even drawing.

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:

And they would sometimes just start

taking a crown and going in circles and

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:

all different colors on their paper.

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:

And that was it.

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:

And when we really talked about

it, we found that this student just

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doesn't even really want to write.

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:

They're not engaged.

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:

She's.

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:

It's not meaningful enough for him.

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:

And, and he is not feeling very

equipped with his level of writing

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:

and the actual transcription part.

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:

It is difficult for him.

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:

And so if this teacher were to continue

to, first of all, always give him support,

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:

you know in the way of just like, okay,

let's get this down, let's get this down.

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:

That's.

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:

Something that as soon as you

take it away, he now still is

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:

not able to write on his own.

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:

Right.

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:

And if it was only about, you

know, saying, okay, let's think

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:

about what else you could tell

me, or what could you write?

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:

And it's about this topic

that he's not interested in.

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:

Honestly, sometimes he would pick his

topic, but he still just didn't have it.

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:

It was still two things, I think

there's, he didn't have a meaning.

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:

It wasn't invested enough for him.

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:

Like it came up and maybe someone

even just helped him pick it.

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:

And then also, he just

doesn't feel skilled enough.

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:

And so I believed he

needed to spend more time.

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:

A building a bank of ideas

that are meaningful for him.

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:

And understanding like why he's

doing this in the first place, even

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:

though he's only in first grade.

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:

And then also taking time where he is.

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:

Independently evil to, right.

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:

So whether that be pictures and

by the way, if he wants to draw or

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:

write about something, he can draw.

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:

Pretty represent representational picture.

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:

So he's able to do that.

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:

He could probably feels

confident in that part.

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:

But then it might right now just need

to be some labels and words for him.

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:

So that he can just practice

that over and over again and feel

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:

more confident and have it be not

such a, a cognitive load for him.

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:

And so the real reason why there wasn't

progress for this writer is because he

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:

was not really being met where he is.

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:

We didn't.

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:

They didn't really know

where he was as a Raider.

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:

And then he wasn't able to

practice at the level that he

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:

needed to practice as a writer.

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:

But let's say, you know, now those

things are going to happen, or let's

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:

say you have writers where you do feel,

you know who they are as a writer,

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:

and you're trying to meet their goals.

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:

It's important to have these notes.

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:

Because a let's face it.

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:

We don't remember everything.

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:

You probably met with this student last

week because it's very difficult to get to

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:

every student every week, even sometimes.

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:

And you don't remember.

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:

You don't remember what you talked about.

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:

You don't remember what they were

working on because sometimes you just

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:

want to know if we change topics.

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:

If we not.

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:

You will not remember.

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:

So when you are able to look at

the notes and say, okay, last

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:

time I gave him this compliment.

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:

We talked about this.

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:

This is the goal we're working on.

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:

Ernie.

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:

Let me, let me focus now.

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:

I know what I'm kind of trying

to pay attention to you.

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:

I know what I can really

talk to them about.

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:

And then I'm going to take notes again.

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:

And not only will it keep you focused?

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:

And on point, so you know what

to do next time you're with them,

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:

but you will also be able to see.

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:

The progress of the freighter.

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:

It's extremely helpful.

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:

I can't say it enough.

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:

I know it takes time and sometimes it

also takes a while to feel you have

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:

the note taking system that you want.

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:

But I don't care if it's organized,

it could be a bunch of post-it notes.

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:

So you then have to put together,

you lose some of them sometimes,

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:

but at least you have something.

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:

So as this episode comes to a

close my fabulous writing teacher,

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:

I'm going to leave you with.

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No you're writers the best you can.

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:

By asking questions.

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:

Looking at work and taking notes and

then keeping those notes, try something.

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:

Tri pick two goals for your

class and check out every

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:

student based on those goals.

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:

Or try to just take some notes on

your student and see what you got

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:

that The hierarchy of writing goals

from Jennifer Serravallo is one of

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:

my favorite tools to use for this.

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:

But you think of what you want

to be seeing from your writers?

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:

Put it down on paper and then

check it out, check you, check

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:

them out as writers, talk to them,

see what you got, keep notes.

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:

And you will see that you are no longer

as overwhelmed and you are going to

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:

notice progress for your writers.

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:

Hey, again, I am so happy to have

had you listen in again today.

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:

I would like to ask a little favor.

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:

If you're enjoying the podcast, could

you take a moment to go wherever

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:

it is that you listen and write

a review and tell others what you

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:

find so great about these episodes?

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:

I would love to be able to share

it with more teachers to help them

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:

in their writing instruction, just

as hopefully I've been helping you.

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:

So thank you so much.

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