Back in the day, if you wanted to call yourself a sports team owner, one of 2 things had to happen. You either had to be born into a crazy rich family that already owned a team, or you had to make a fortune somewhere else and buy the team from one of those previously mentioned crazy rich families.

But my guest in this episode, Christopher Zook, wants you to know that’s not necessarily the case anymore.

Here’s the deal.

Christopher is the Founder and CIO of CAZ Investments, one of the largest private equity firms in the world. He’s also just written a book with legendary leadership guru Tony Robbins called "The Holy Grail of Investing".

The book feature interviews with some of the world's most prolific and successful investors, and reveals the secrets behind their successes, their challenges, and (perhaps most interestingly) where they’re looking for their next wins. And, as it turns out, one of those places in professional sports ownership.

In our conversation, Christopher and I talk about how professional sports first got on his radar as an investment opportunity. He also goes into what he’s anticipating for the growth of sports businesses, and how smart investors can position themselves to take advantage of pro sports.

ABOUT THIS PODCAST

The Sports Business Conversations podcast is a production of ADC Partners, a sports marketing agency that specializes in creating, managing, and evaluating effective partnerships between brands and sports. All rights reserved.

YOUR HOST

Dave Almy brings over 30 years of sports marketing and sports business experience to his role as host of the "1-on-1: Sports Business Conversations" podcast. Dave is the co-Founder of ADC Partners.

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00:02

Christopher Zook

Hi, this is Christopher Zook. I'm chairman and Chief Investment Officer of CAS Investments in Houston, Texas, and co author of the new book Holy Grail of Investing with my partner, Tony Robbins. We're pleased to be here on the 101 Sports Business Podcast.

00:25

Dave Almy

Hi, this is Dave Almy of ADC Partners and thanks for checking out this latest episode of the One one Sports Business Conversations podcast. Don't forget, you can always find past episodes of this award winning podcast@adcpartners.com podcast now, back in the day, if you wanted to call yourself a sports team owner, one of two things had to happen. You either had to be born into a crazy rich family that already owned a team, or you had to make a fortune somewhere else and buy that team from one of those crazy rich families. But my guest in this episode, Christopher Zook, wants you to know that's not necessarily the case anymore. Here's the deal. Christopher is the founder and CIO of CAS Investments, one of the largest private equity firms in the world.

01:16

Dave Almy

He's also just written a book with legendary leadership guru Tony Robbins called the Holy Grail of Investing. The book features interviews with some of the world's most prolific and successful investors and reveals the secrets behind their successes, their challenges, and perhaps most interestingly, where they're looking for their next wins. And as it turns out, one of those places is professional sports ownership. In our conversation, Christophar and I talk about how professional sports first got on his radar as an investment opportunity. He also goes into what he's anticipating for the growth of sports businesses and how smart investors can position themselves to take advantage of pro sports. All this and the infamous Reflux Gourmet lightning round as well. And as always, thanks for listening. You were an athlete as a younger person, right? You played football and golf.

02:18

Dave Almy

So I'm wondering, to start off, Christopher, can you talk a little bit about how your experience as an athlete maybe helped prepare you for a future investing? Maybe not two things that people always put together, but I'm interested in your assessment of that.

02:32

Christopher Zook

I think sports and investing actually have a lot in common. And I really do think that my time as an athlete did prepare me to be a better investor. In the case of football, you got to get kicked in the mouth and be able to get right back up again and do it again. That happens investing all the time. That's just the nature of the beast.

02:50

Dave Almy

Hopefully not literally.

02:51

Christopher Zook

Yeah, hopefully not literally. But in the case of golf, it's also, it's so much between the ears. It's more about in many cases your psychology than it is actually your physiology and your capability as a golfer. There's a lot of guys that have much better swings than I do, but can't break 80. And it's something to where they just don't have the mental game to be successful in the game of golf. So I do think they both helped me a lot as an investor.

03:16

Dave Almy

Do you think, and I think of recall that you were, you're playing football, you took a class in golf at Texas Tech and that led you to your first investing experiences and sort of got you familiar with it. What. Can you reflect on that for a minute?

03:29

Christopher Zook

Just so it's a little bit different than that. So I was playing golf, I had my second knee injury, had to stop playing golf or have to stop playing football, excuse me, and I had to take up the game of golf. I was too competitive to not do something. So golf was my outlet. While I was in school, though I did take a class that was in agricultural economics. And it was in that agricultural economics class that I first learned about commodities and about trading and hedging and speculating, etc. And we did a fictitious portfolio like typically happens in those classes. And I mean I was a duck to water. I just loved what I was doing and I was putting myself through college, so I actually traded commodities to help pay for my school.

04:10

Dave Almy

04:46

Christopher Zook

05:26

Christopher Zook

And so I ordered the tape series and my wife and I went through that 30 day tape series calling it a cassette tape back in the good old days.

05:34

Dave Almy

For those of you who are under the age of 40, these were actual physical objects. You listened to music and sound on. We'll go, I'll post a. Anyway, okay, so tape series.

05:45

Christopher Zook

So tape series. And one of the days that you go in that 30 day tape series is you set a goal. And you set a goal for one year, three years, five years, 10 years. And I set a goal to within 10 years have my own firm by the name of CAS Investments. And nine years and nine months later, I opened up the firm. And those are not a coincidence.

06:03

Dave Almy

I mean, it's a very fascinating thing about this one thing about setting goals, right? Because I think we all kind of do that consciously, subconsciously. But boy, it's the follow through, isn't it? Right? It's the tools that you have to. I kind of, you know, circling back to the sports conversation too, right? It's kind of like practice and you go through repetition and you have some failure, but you get back up. It kind of applies here too, doesn't it?

06:25

Christopher Zook

Oh, I think that's another reason why sports to me is such a great tie in to investing, but just in life. I mean, I think every single child should compete. Not just a little bit, I mean compete, no participation, trophies here this is like I need to get and win, right? Because that is what sets people up for success. And you learn from your failures as much as you do from your victories. But ultimately it is the reality that most people have what Tony refers to as impotent goals. They have goals that, yeah, they sound good on paper, but they don't have a big enough. Why we all know of athletes who started off with absolutely nothing. They were dirt poor and they needed not wanted, they needed to get out of the neighborhood. And so the way that their path was through sports.

07:10

Christopher Zook

They try harder. And so as a result they practice harder. And perfect practice makes for ultimately a really good athlete. And that's true in the investment world is the bigger the why the more we try. And ultimately, if you really want to do something special, you can as long as you work harder than anybody else.

07:28

Dave Almy

You talked a little bit about being introduced toby Robbins, the big figure on television and doing the tape series and getting that understanding and sort of familiarity with him. How did you two actually meet and how did that relationship evolve to the point where let's write a couple books together and see how that goes. What? Tell us about that journey.

07:50

Christopher Zook

So Tony became a client of our firm before I ever met him. I had been to some of his live events and he was massively impactful. And I've said this on other podcasts, but other than my faith and other than my wife, nobody said more of an impact on my life than Tony Robbins. That was before I met him. Yeah, right. So he was introduced to us by a gentleman who used to work for Paul Tudor Jones. Paul Tudor Jones has been, you know, has worked with Tony back since the late 80s and is a very dear friend of his. This gentleman became a client of ours. He introduced Tony's team to us. Tony became an investor. I had nothing to do with it, but he really loved what were doing.

08:28

Christopher Zook

And so he, you know, through a couple of people, part of his team, said, I want to meet this guy. I went to his house, we had a 14 hour meeting. That's a typical meeting with Tony. Not no joke, it's a legit. I mean, it went until like three in the morning.

08:44

Dave Almy

This is not attention, short, attention span, theater type stuff.

08:47

Christopher Zook

No, no.

08:47

Dave Almy

It's beyond the ball.

08:48

Christopher Zook

Yeah. And the candidly, it's the best way to learn a sport, it's the best way to learn anything in life is through total immersion. So he learned everything he could about our business. In the course of that long meeting, we realized that there was a lot of things that we could potentially do together that led him to becoming a shareholder in our firm. And one piece of that puzzle was that we really wanted to deliver a message to a much broader audience. And the book obviously was the germination of that idea.

09:14

Dave Almy

So the book is the holy grail of investing and it features, I mean, it's fascinating. It features a number of in depth interviews with some of the most recognizable names of investment. So what I'm interested in is how did you create the list of people that you wanted to reach out to and related to that? Was there anybody who were like, oh, I can't believe we got this person.

09:41

Christopher Zook

So the list was compiled primarily based on our investment thesis. We're a very thematic investor. So when you start talking about a book, it's going to be around forever. So somebody's got it, going to read it 30, 50 years from now. Maybe, and I want it to not be irrelevant at that time. So we're a thematic investor in general. But so when we looked at themes that were going to highlight in the book, in the educational section of the book and then also in the interviews, it was, what themes do we believe are going to persist for the next decade? Plus, that led to themes that then led. Who is the very best in that industry, in that sector? You know, if you're going to talk about enterprise software, you have to talk about Robert Smith. Robert Smith, Vista Equity Partners.

10:25

Christopher Zook

He's the wealthiest African American in the country. He is created. He created effectively the large enterprise software private equity firm. And he's the biggest and has an unparalleled track record. Same thing when you start talking about GP stakes, which is owning a stake in a private asset management firm. You know, Michael Reese, he created an industry basically. And so getting him was very logical. In the case of energy, you know, Bob Zork and Will Van Low, they run the number one and two largest private equity firms focused on energy. So it started to create itself. And Ian Charles from Arctos and some of the others, when we start talking about sports, they were natural fits. When you start talking about international. Michael B. Kim. Michael B. Kim is the wealthiest person in Korea and he is known as the godfather of Asian private equity.

11:12

Christopher Zook

So the one that I was really kind of really happy he was willing to do it because he's done so much media over the years is Vinod Khosla. Vinod is a legend in the world of venture capital. You know, took $7 million and turned it into 4 billion in a company by the name of Juniper that nobody had ever heard of. Juniper Networks.

11:32

Dave Almy

Yeah, he did okay with that one.

11:33

Christopher Zook

Yeah, he did just fine. He was, you know, first money into Google, first money into, you know, some of the most prominent names that we know. So he gets so many requests and we're partners with them, good friends with him. And it's something, I was just really honored that he, that all of these folks were willing to take the time and to be part of the project.

11:53

Dave Almy

It's, you know, the word visionary, I think gets thrown around probably a little too easy, particularly in this day and age when new companies are trying to launch in so many different sectors all the time. But what strikes me is the list of folks that you just talked about. I mean, they are both described as visionary, but in practice, their vision has obviously produced enormous rewards for them, hasn't it?

12:20

Christopher Zook

I mean, it really has Very few people can take a tremendous amount of skill and effort and to also create a vision for an outcome that they're committed to. You think about David Sacks and the all in podcast. Not only was part of the early team at PayPal, did incredibly well, they're very successful as a venture capitalist, but also has taken that media platform to a very significant level. You look at folks like David Golub and private credit, they saw what private credit was going to before private credit became a thing. You know, NEA Associates, Tony Florence, I mean, they are the grandfather, if you will, as a firm of venture capital investing and growth investing. So they had to see a vision well beyond what's there now and what it's going to become in the future. And they all had that in common.

13:08

Dave Almy

Well, it also striked, hey, this is a sports business podcast. So I'm going to keep bringing it back to sports, right? It goes back to the very start of this conversation, right? Because you think about all the tools that have to fall into place and what those folks have to do because you talk about all the time, right? Ideas are a dime a dozen, right? And it's okay to have a vision and that's great, but how are you going to execute on it? What's the, what's the, how are you going to put your boots on the ground, take steps towards that goal? And that's really where I think it actually does come in. That competition thing, that ability to fall down, learn from those mistakes, dust yourself off, get back up again and activate that vision that you have.

13:42

Dave Almy

That's what I think really separates those folks from some of the other people who have tried to do the similar thing or even had similar ideas.

13:49

Christopher Zook

And that's one of the things in the interview section of the book that I think the audience will find so interesting because we talk through some of those challenges that they had to overcome that they, you know, how did you stay on track with the vision that you're going to hopefully create? And then ultimately, how did you not get distracted by all the things that could have caused it? I mean, Ramsey Musalam is such a great example at Veritas Capital, the top performing private equity manager for the last 20 years in almost every category. And literally very soon after they started their first fund, his partner committed suicide. And he had to literally go out and convince every single one of the LPs not to put the key man clause in place and to stay with it. And he did that.

14:37

Christopher Zook

So he had to overcome enormous obstacles to now become one of the wealthiest people in this. In the, in the world, and just truly a unique position in the private equity asset class.

14:50

Dave Almy

It's trite. You know, we talk about grit, right. All the time. And I don't know if there's anything grittier than that. Right. Having to go and talk to all the original investors to stay put. A significant part of this book is about pro sports, investing in pro sports. Hence this conversation. You go into depth talking about the sports industry and what makes franchises a compelling investment opportunity. You talked earlier about focusing on themes and thematic investing. And this is a pretty broad theme in the book. So I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about how sports and teams first got on your radar and what struck you the most about them as that as an investment opportunity.

15:36

Christopher Zook

The most common, misunderstood concept by far is why we're invested in pro sports. It is literally something that most people never really understand because they assume it's just because it's cool and it's fun and it's high profile. And it is all of that. Okay, okay.

15:55

Dave Almy

It is all that too.

15:56

Christopher Zook

But that's not why we did it. The reason we did it is the change of consumer behavior is something that's been a major theme of ours for the last decade. And cord cutting is an irrefutable reality. People. I literally had, I gave a speech to a thousand people and I said, I, I will challenge anyone to get up and make a compelling argument why cord cutting is going to stop. And people are going to go back to cable and broadcast and I'll pay you $1,000 if the audience thinks that you have a good case. Nobody was even willing to stand up and look silly because everybody knows that cord cutting is going to be a reality inevitable. So that means live sports are going to be what advertisers need to advertise on. That's the only way to reach their audience.

16:37

Christopher Zook

And 92% of the top programming is live sports. I mean, the super bowl was the most watched program last week. I mean, you're talking about a whole lot of the planet watch that game. And every advertiser got their message in front of that audience. So for us, the business model around sports is so advantaged because of the fact that you just where else do you have a legal monopoly? And you also have the entire organization focused one thing, which is to maximizing the fan experience, to maximizing the longevity of the game. And then obviously that's going to yield to significant revenues which yield significant profits for the owners of these businesses.

17:21

Christopher Zook

But everybody is all about how do we take these fanatics, also called fans, where the name comes from, and make them just so much a celebration of the human spirit that sports brings out? I mean, where else in the world do you have people of all different types, shapes, sizes and philosophies get together, unified to be able to just want to go nuts, put your face paint.

17:49

Dave Almy

On and head to the stands?

17:51

Christopher Zook

Absolutely. Only in sports can you see that. And that's one of the great things about investing in something that's that resilient and that's persistent is writing enormous value to the consumer and at the same time, obviously, making a great investment.

18:02

Dave Almy

You also talk a little bit in the book about, you know, it's also a business that has almost no business development costs. Right. Because the way that tradition and fandom is handed down through families, through friendships, through relationships and things like that. So that entire construct of a business operation is almost superfluous. I mean, I know teams do it, but, you know, it's. It's just baked in. But sports almost, you know, somewhat famously, don't play by the rules of a typical business. And, you know, we've had an opportunity to work with a couple of owners in the past who have assumed that they would take their skill in one business and apply it directly to sports. I mean, manufacturing and sports don't necessarily play by the same rules. You talk about the Anaheim Mighty Ducks when Disney owned them.

18:55

Dave Almy

Disney was out of their depth on that one. They didn't really understand how that kind of worked. So. So in your mind, as you consider pro sports investments, what do people need to pay attention to in order to minimize risk when they're considering an investment in sports. Where are those red flags?

19:12

Christopher Zook

The number one red flag is if they look at the business as a hobby, not as a business. And if it's something that's just been, you know, given to them by their family or something, to where they just have all the money in the world and they just want to say that they own a sports team. You know, they're not going to be a good partner for us. We're looking for people that really want to build a very successful business, do an incredible job for the consumer to be able to rally an entire city or state or multiple states in some cases. You know, I think about what Josh Harris is doing with the Commanders. I mean, just straight after his transaction, the amount of enthusiasm in Washington and the surrounding areas is just unmatched to where. What it was before.

19:56

Dave Almy

Right.

19:56

Christopher Zook

So we look for and full Disclosure, Josh is a very good partner of ours in the world of sports, but they know how to run a business successfully. He obviously co founded Apollo, so he knows what he's doing running business. At the same time, he's hired the right people to understand consumer interfacing, how we can create this enormous value in the community, give back to the community, create that loyalty. At the same time, really be forward looking about what a platform can do around the business, which can include real estate, it can include other franchises and other sports as an example. And to be able to maximize the value for the fan as well as for the players, obviously they have to be really feel honored and supported and then of course for the ownership group as well.

20:47

Dave Almy

I've been working in and around sports for about 30 years now and I think what you're talking about strikes me as the change in ownership and expectations for what a sports franchise is during that time. Because you're right at the beginning, when I got into this business, we're talking about people who inherited it from family members and they were like, okay, I'm in charge of a baseball team now. Or like I said earlier, people who made a lot of money in one area and tried to transition over and just sort of felt themselves out of their death and just let it operate on its own. But the money and expectations now have led to, for lack of a better term, the professionalization of sports with a, you know, just getting butts in seats isn't it anymore?

21:35

Dave Almy

Because we got to reach international audiences, we got to reach, you know, to your point, cord cutting and streaming, the business model change. We saw the collapse of regional sports networks associated with this. It's a dynamic industry right now and so people are hiring folks who really have a better understanding of how to take advantage of those opportunities in ways that they had never done before.

21:55

Christopher Zook

And technology is driving so much of sports and most owners really don't know that much about it if they've been in the business for longer than five or six years. Because it is literally changing as we speak. And they are like, how do I maximize the opportunity? And that's many cases why groups that we're involved in get brought in as partners to be able to add value.

22:19

Dave Almy

All right, so what we're going to do is we're going to take a quick break. For our sponsor, Reflux Gourmet, we're with Christopher Zook. He's the chairman of CAS Investments and co author with Tony Robbins of the book the Holy Grail of Investing. We're going to be right back. If you work in sports business, then you know that we sometimes eat really badly. Stadium food isn't exactly known for its healthy properties. Yeah, it's gotten better. There are more options available, but generally speaking, I'm not seeking out the vegetable plate on the concourse. It's kind of ironic, right? I mean, you're watching these world class athletes push themselves to the very limits of human performance while shoving a plate of nachos loaded with shaved meat and a hot liquefied cheese that's a color that doesn't even appear in nature.

23:08

Dave Almy

And while that food can taste so good going down, I almost always pay for it later on with heartburn and acid reflux. And that's when I turned Reflux Gourmet. It's great tasting, all natural way to treat acid reflux. And you can't even believe how good this stuff tastes, right? A chef in Napa Valley actually curated flavors like vanilla caramel and mint chili chip. And it's all natural. I mean, I actually recognize all the ingredients on the label. Most importantly, though, it just works. Just one tablespoon of Reflux Gourmet and I'm ready to go. Reflux Gourmet is available on Amazon, and if you use the promo code sportsbiz, you'll get a 10% discount on your order. Okay, so we're with Christopher Zook. He's the chairman of Kaz Investments and co author with Tony Robbins of the book the Holy Grail of Investing.

24:03

Dave Almy

And Christopher, one of the investors of the many that you talked to for the book is Ian Charles. Now, you know, like I said earlier, I've been in this business for 30 years. I had not heard the name Ian Charles. I was not too familiar with Arcto Sports Partners. So you can imagine I got page turning in particular at that section. I want to understand how Ian and his business, Arcto Sports Partners, got on your radar and what separates him and his approach and the firm's approach from others who are now sort of diving into that deep end of the pool.

24:38

Christopher Zook

You know, I laugh because the fact that Ian tells this story so much better than I do. Ian is a fascinating guy because he comes from the private equity industry and he's really an innovator in the industry, but he's not a sports fan. And yet he runs the largest dedicated sports private equity firm in the world, but he's not a sports fan. But he loves engaging with consumers and he loves the business of sports. But the reason that we got involved was because the fact that they called us. I mean, we're one of the 200 largest private equity allocators in the world. And so we have big checks that we write, and so people naturally want our money, and that's great.

25:17

Dave Almy

Hence this podcast. I mean, that's what we're happening right now.

25:19

Christopher Zook

That's right. And it's just, you know, it's. It's. It's why we get to look at so many really cool and interesting things and own businesses like we do. But they came into our office. We were one of the very first meetings. And this is quoting him. He was really excited. He was very confident. He knew I was a sports guy. And he's like, this is going to go great. And at the end of it, he goes, that was not a good meeting. That didn't go well at all. And then he came back four months later and said, okay, I really feel good. We've given them tons of information, and I am very highly confident. And he walked in, he says, I'm not confident at all. That did not go well, like I expected it to.

25:52

Christopher Zook

And then seven months later, so almost a year and a half at this point into the conversation, we actually started really having traction with it because I was the skeptic, okay? I mean, of my entire firm, I was the one. It's kind of my job to be the skeptic anyway. That's kind of my role.

26:07

Dave Almy

But you're the sports guy. Like, you would think you might have sort of.

26:10

Christopher Zook

That's the thing. I looked at sports the same way as most people, which is it's just a trophy asset. It's just you lose money, but hopefully you sell it for more than you paid for it. And what I didn't appreciate was this entire matchup between our theme that were already investing in a very significant way, the change in consumer behavior, and that sports is actually the best way to take advantage of that. Once that light bulb went on for me, that's when I was like, okay, I got to learn a lot more because it's a business I'm not familiar with. But after another four or five months, we became a very significant partner with them, and it's been a fantastic relationship, and we're honored to do a lot of the really interesting things that we do with them.

26:49

Dave Almy

There's this passage in the section with Ian Charles when you ask him point blank what you wish he wishes he had done differently when he gets started. And I thought his answer was fascinating, right? Because he said, I wish I'd hired more machine learning engineers to focus on data and AI. And I kind of did a little bit of double take because that, like I said, was not the answer I was expecting from him. Right. So what does that say about data now and how intertwined it is both in your business, but also in the business of sports as we start to look at fans and monetizing the data that goes along with that?

27:33

Christopher Zook

Data and AI and machine learning are at the forefront of everything in our business. We actually signed a five year strategic partnership with Palantir to overlay their machine learning and AI on every aspect of our business.

27:45

Dave Almy

Wow.

27:46

Christopher Zook

The same is true in sports. If someone is not involved in data science, they are missing enormous opportunities to be able to deliver a better result for their fans on the field or on the pitch. They are losing the opportunity to deliver a better experience for their fans as far as the overall entertainment concept. And then you also have enormous monetization opportunities because of that extra data science. And that is one of the reasons why Arctos in particular is brought in. Because, you know, I can, I'm not going to say names here, but specific owners have told me that they did not need a partner at all. They just flat out did not need one.

28:25

Christopher Zook

But they really wanted to have somebody in their boardroom that actually understood all of this stuff, that was able to look at the whole league, not just one team. Because until literally two years ago, there was no ability to own multiple teams in the same league for the obvious conflicts of interest reasons. So the leagues came up with, and all the leagues have approved it, except for the NFL, which we hope is going to happen soon, but it hasn't happened yet. The league said, okay, only if you meet all of these very strict criteria can you own more than one team in the league. I mean, for us to own a piece of the Astros, the Cubs, the Dodgers, the Padres, you know, the Giants and the Boston Red Sox, all in one league. Arcto sits at the center of that.

29:09

Christopher Zook

And they get to see, obviously maintaining confidentiality, but they get to see what's happening in all of the different ballparks and all of the different leagues around, not just baseball, but also in basketball, hockey, etc. And so when you bring all that together to an owner, you can add a tremendous amount of value. You know, we help. You know, Arctos helped the Sacramento Kings do a transaction that really increased their ability to reach their fans and to be able to, you know, be more profitable as a business. Those are things that would not have happened without the relationship of Arctos Diamond.

29:40

Dave Almy

Baseball holdings is doing that in minor league baseball. I think they're up to 30 teams, they have interest or ownership stakes and it's it. And it speaks, I think, to how dynamic we talked about a little bit earlier. Right. The sports industry is right now. There are lots of things happening, particularly in the terms of where the content's coming from. Right. We've got women's sports are exploding, new leagues are launching all the time. Drone racing, United Football, they're doing their thing, new models being tested, professional lacrosse, league has a traveling circuit rather than city based things. As you went through your research and interviews for the book, I'm wondering what thoughts you have on where the next great investments for sports are going to come from.

30:29

Christopher Zook

Definitely all of the above. And I mean, if you'd asked me two years ago, would I own a piece of a Formula one team, I would have said, that's crazy, why would I do that? Then I looked at the economics of it. Oh my gosh, it's off the charts as far as the, the type of person of clientele and obviously the, you know, the Netflix series, you know, did a lot for it, but it was really popular before that too. Same thing with women's sports and you know, same thing with just lots of different types of things because it all comes back to the same thing. If the advertisers need great content and it needs to be live, well, we have a saying as a firm, find a need, fill a need, get paid. It's really simple.

31:08

Dave Almy

I'm getting that tattooed on me somewhere.

31:11

Christopher Zook

If you know that there's a need and there's people that would like to watch. And one of the things that Covid did to the world is there's only so much time you can spend binge watching this, that and the other. At some point you want to actually get out and get into community and. Or you want to have something that surprises you. Because as many times as you watch Lord of the Rings, it's still the same ending.

31:34

Dave Almy

It's pretty much the same.

31:35

Christopher Zook

Yeah, but you watch the super bowl last weekend and you go, oh my gosh, I have no idea what's going to happen. Overtime, drama, etc. People need that in their life. They need that variety, they need that excitement that doesn't come from just another great movie. They're wonderful. But it doesn't persist through time. And the advertisers need you to create that content. And so entrepreneurs will find a way to do it.

31:59

Dave Almy

Okay, so given the potential rewards, I think we've established, right. There's a huge opportunity here. What advice do you have for those of us who maybe haven't earned their first billion yet, underscoring the yet there who want to get involved in sports from an investment standpoint, who. But where should they head? You know, what advice do you have to get started?

32:21

Christopher Zook

So there's only a few assets today that are publicly traded, right? There are a few. They trade not great as far as valuations. They don't trade great as far as volume, just because of the fact that it's a tough asset from the average analyst to understand. So there are ways to do that and there are opportunities that present themselves. The vast majority of it, as I mentioned, is only these few firms. You know, our two primary partners are Arctos we've talked about right now, Blue Owl Capital and the NBA. They're exclusive to the NBA. But there are ways for people to get involved in sports today in the private markets. But they have to be able to find access points and it's totally self serving.

33:04

Christopher Zook

But that's one of the things that is an advantage that we have is because we're able to be Switzerland, if you will, we can invest with anyone and any of the different funds that make investments in professional sports. And so naturally that is a way for people to be able to get in that never would have thought that they were able to access and actually own a piece of a professional sports team.

33:26

Dave Almy

All right, the name of the book is the Holy Grail of Investing. I'm with Christopher Zook, who co authored the book with Tony Robbins. He's also the chairman of CAS Investments and their chief investment officer too. Last question before we get to the last phase of this podcast. Christopher is at the end of the day, what do you hope the people take away from the book? What's the ultimate message you want them to have?

33:48

Christopher Zook

It's actually not that intimidating that everyone can invest in the private markets if they will take the time to learn how to do it. And that the holy grail of investing, which you know is Markowitz won the Nobel Prize for the concept. Ray Dalio has obviously made that effectively a household name in the investment world. We want it to be a household name in the average investor's mind because if you can take 8 to 15 non correlated or low correlated assets, blend them together, you can either get the same return with less risk or if you're willing to take that risk, you can. Usually if you know where to look and get access, you can actually make a much higher return.

34:25

Christopher Zook

But we also want to make sure that people understand it because things are happening that are going to enable more people to invest for the first time in alternative investments. A lot of people don't realize this, but in Congress right now, the House of Representatives has passed a bill that says that the SEC must create a test for someone to be able to become an accredited investor. Today, as we sit here, you have to either make a lot of money or have a lot of money or both in order to be able to access most of this. Well, I personally don't believe it's fair that a PhD who's wickedly smart, who happens to work for a nonprofit or somebody who's a police officer who's really intelligent, but they choose to serve that they're not allowed to invest in the best things in the world.

35:06

Christopher Zook

So that bill is right now in the Senate. We hope that it gets out of committee, and then the President has said he will sign it, and. And then the SEC will pass that test or create that test, and then people will be able to pass it and to be able to have access. We want this to be a reference point for them about what are all these different asset classes? How can you utilize them and then learn from just truly these titans of the industry on what has allowed them to be very successful and what they should look for, investors should look for when they are actually selecting who they're going to hire in the private asset world.

35:38

Dave Almy

All right, Christopher Zook, we're gonna take all this industry knowledge that you have, all this vision, and what I'm doing is I'm gonna put you into the Reflux Gourmet lightning round. Now, this is a series of questions. These are surprises. These are gonna come out of nowhere. These are gonna be left field, right field. I mean, center field, using the sports analogy. So are you ready?

35:58

Christopher Zook

I'm totally ready. Bring it.

36:00

Dave Almy

There we go. Here we go. You are a lifelong Houstonian. What's something that the city should be famous for but isn't?

36:08

Christopher Zook

The food quality and the diversity. We're the most diverse city in the country, more than New York. And if you want great ethnic food, come to Houston, Texas.

36:18

Dave Almy

All right, there you go. The Chamber of Commerce and the Restaurant council thanks you. You are a proud Texas Tech Red Raider, just like Patrick Mahomes, who just won his third Super Bowl. So if you were in Lubbock right now, where would you go to celebrate the win?

36:33

Christopher Zook

Oh, wow. The Overton Hotel is where kind of everything happens right after the games itself. It's just a great environment. That's where I would go.

36:42

Dave Almy

All right, very good. Your last name begins with a Z. Mine begins with an A. Would you like to know what it's like at the front of the line.

36:51

Christopher Zook

Every once in a while? I got that feeling in class because they would reverse it and I was always at the front. That was great.

36:56

Dave Almy

It's pretty glorious, isn't it, when you get there?

36:58

Christopher Zook

It was nice, especially when you're seven. I mean, it's a big deal when you're seven years old.

37:03

Dave Almy

Okay, what's a pro tip for surviving a book tour?

37:06

Christopher Zook

You know, protect your voice, which I haven't done a great job of trying to quit quieting is something to where, you know, protect your voice and ultimately just, you know, be. Be willing to be real and let people see who you are.

37:17

Dave Almy

Very good. Okay, last one. You're. You're on media all the time. You're on cnbc, Fox Business, Bloomberg. So in light of all those appearances, how'd it do?

37:29

Christopher Zook

No, you did great. This has been a lot of fun, and I appreciate it.

37:32

Dave Almy

Christopher Zook, chairman and Chief Investment Officer for CAS Investments and co author of the book the Holy Grail of Investing with Tony Robbins. Thanks so much for spending the time with me.

37:42

Christopher Zook

Happy to do so. Thank you for inviting me.