Bram Stoker's Dracula (1992) - A Gothic Romance Gone Wrong | Movie Wars Podcast

Join Kyle, Seth, and Mariana as they sink their teeth into Francis Ford Coppola's 1992 vampire epic Bram Stoker's Dracula, starring Gary Oldman, Keanu Reeves, and Winona Ryder.

In this episode, the hosts dissect one of the most visually stunning yet narratively confusing Dracula adaptations ever made. Was this a horror masterpiece or a beautiful mess? From Gary Oldman's iconic performance and wild hairstyles to Keanu Reeves' infamous accent struggles, the team explores what went wrong (and right) with this ambitious gothic romance.

Episode Highlights:

1. Why everyone's overacting: Is it the actors or Francis Ford Coppola's directing?
2. The film's stunning practical effects, costume design, and cinematography
3. Comparing Coppola's vision to Robert Eggers' 2024 Nosferatu remake
4. Behind-the-scenes tensions between Gary Oldman and Coppola
5. How the film transforms Dracula from monster to tragic romantic figure
6. The symbolism behind Vlad the Impaler's Japanese-inspired costume design
7. Why this became a sexual awakening for an entire generation

Perfect for fans of: Dracula movies, Francis Ford Coppola films, 90s horror, gothic romance, vampire cinema, Gary Oldman, classic horror adaptations, film criticism, practical effects, Nosferatu, Interview with the Vampire

Whether you're a die-hard fan who saw this as a kid or experiencing it for the first time, this deep dive explores why Bram Stoker's Dracula remains one of cinema's most divisive vampire films—gorgeous to look at, painful to watch.

Subscribe to Movie Wars for weekly film debates, deep dives, and hot takes on classic and contemporary cinema.

1. #BramStokersDracula #Dracula #GaryOldman #KeanuReeves #FrancisFordCoppola #VampireMovies #90sHorror #MoviePodcast #FilmCriticism #MovieWars #HorrorMovies #Nosferatu #GothicHorror #ClassicHorror

Foreign.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Movie wars podcast.

I'm Kyle.

I'm Seth.

I'm Mariana.

And today we're covering Bram Stoker's Dracula, also known as Dracula Does Dallas.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

God damn.

Yeah.

You are a horny man.

Yeah, he's.

He's let himself go there.

My goodness.

You know that one friend, Lucy, who's just, like, so horny.

I know the whole movie.

I'm like, my God, what is going.

What a weird thing.

And I. I don't.

And I've said this millions of times in Movie Wars.

I don't know why my parents let me watch whatever I want.

I used to watch this movie all the time as a kid.

Yeah.

And I remember really, like, enjoying it.

And I rewatch a lot of titties.

Yeah.

That.

And it's just.

There's just not a lot of good acting here.

There's not a lot of good much.

And I am a. I am the president of the Keanu Reeves fan club.

Yeah.

Okay.

That's well established.

But even here, I'm just like.

Even I'm just like, boy.

Yeah.

Oh, boy.

Howdy.

And Wynonna Rider, like, Rider.

Arkansas.

We talked about this.

The Southern just comes out.

What in the living hell?

You know that accent.

Yeah.

And I think this comes down to, though, like, I always keep saying, if one person's overacting, it's the actor's fault.

Yeah.

If everybody's overacting, it is Francis Ford Copa's fault.

And everybody.

Everybody's trying to punch above their weight here.

Yeah.

Even the great Gary Oldman was kind of just like.

I was like, all right, bro.

Yeah, I get it.

I get it.

That.

What was going on with his hairstyle at the beginning.

It's perfect.

There's no notes.

No notes.

He just looked like the Queen of Hearts.

Looks like they shaved back his, like.

Because his head looks too big.

Yeah.

Too.

There's a lot going on with the hair.

There is a reason.

The.

The reason.

So one thing that you'll.

You'll find in research is that a lot of the interpretations of Dracula lean on the.

Obviously the reaction to the cross and holy water, but they don't, like, fill in the gaps.

And the way that Coppola wanted to fill in those gaps was with.

With Vlad the Impaler then becoming Vlad Dracula is his.

You know, he was.

He was God's number one man.

Right.

He was the leader of.

You know, in Constantinople.

That beginning scene, which, by the way, like, I think the first five minutes of this movie.

If the whole movie felt like that, it would have been a totally perfect.

It was the first five minutes.

Or like, holy shit, that's like a Kurosawa movie that was like Kagamusha or Ran.

Like, I wrote that down.

I was like, yeah, that first five.

Minutes is where you are reminded.

Oh, right.

He did direct Apocalypse.

Yes.

Yeah.

And those are shadow puppets.

But the idea.

Good.

The idea was, is that.

And he had someone like the.

The costumes person.

That was the supervisor.

He wanted him to.

Almost influenced by Japanese culture because he wanted it to visually be an interpretation that he was so resistant and far away from Christian West.

He wanted everything happening in Dracula's world to be a resistance to Christianity.

Yeah.

Because when he's stabbing the cross, he's stabbing God like him.

That's him saying, I'm.

I'm done with you.

And so he wanted him to look Japanese, Asian, Eastern inspired because he wanted to be a complete resistance to Westernized Christianity.

Okay.

And so that's how Coppola filled in the gaps that are kind of in traditional Dracula movies.

Kind of.

Why is.

Why doesn't he.

Like holy water?

Like, there's no origin to that, but here.

That's how he filled in.

So.

Yeah.

I don't.

I don't.

I'm not saying I like how it looks.

I think it's a bit over the top.

But that's why Coppola.

That's why Coppola went that direction.

Yeah.

This was my first time seeing this movie.

And somehow Nosferatu is like an hour longer.

And I feel like it told the story more succinctly than this movie.

Yeah.

Like, somehow this movie is shorter and it felt twice as long as Nosferatu from.

From two years ago did.

Like, what the fuck?

Yeah.

This was so slow.

But, like, I don't know.

There was just.

There was.

The only big things I can praise about this movie are the costumes and makeup when he is that creature.

By the end, like, that is some of the best looking, practical makeup I have ever seen.

Terrifying.

That moment where he, like, comes down from the ceiling, like, so good.

Oh, my God.

I think.

I think the actors were attempting to go Shakespearean and.

And I'm sure once they thought it was enough, Coppola was like, no, no, no, no.

More, more, more.

And they all just went to Looney Tune land.

Yeah.

But like, oh, my God, there was.

This was a hard one to watch.

This was very difficult to get through for me.

Yeah.

This is like one of my favorite movies from childhood because I think I had.

I guess I had a sexual awakening to this movie.

Everybody did.

Everybody did.

This was Twilight of the Day.

Okay.

Gary Oldman is my first crush.

Nice.

And which is funny.

If you see him in the movie, if you see anything he wears or looks like in the movie at all.

It's weird that every girl was like, no, no, no.

This.

This guy.

Yeah.

This fucking guy.

Yeah, mom, this is who I want to marry.

Even though Carrie Owens had such a perfect mustache.

I know.

Well, he's mean.

He's mean.

And he doesn't travel across oceans of time to go find the woman he loves.

Because at the end of this, it might be Dracula.

But it is definitely Romeo and Juliet.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

It is so Romeo and Juliet.

And I just.

I. I love it.

It's.

But I think I love it because I watched it 150 million times as a kid.

Yeah.

So it's like one of those that's just always going to have a soft spot for me.

But watching it as an adult, I'm like, what is this going on?

Yeah.

What is the story?

Also, where are the characters?

Yeah.

That was something that was confusing for me, was like, world.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Where are they?

Yeah.

Cuz like, suddenly they're back at his place in.

In Transylvania.

But, like, some of them are still in London.

And then they're going to Vanya.

Yeah.

And then they go to this real estate to kill the soil.

Yeah.

In London also for like the first hour and a half.

I'm like, does she actually fall in love with him or is she just playing a part like, what the is going on?

And then why does Keanu Reeves let her just go at the end?

Also, why does it take him like 45 minutes in between, like the middle of the movie to leave Transylvania when.

When.

When Dracula's already been in London for like two weeks.

Yeah.

I'm always.

What the.

I'm wondering if there's a lot of this that's filled in in the book that's like they're all under these trances and spells.

So I'm always wondering if she is actually in love with him or if she's under a spell.

Well, have you seen Nosferatu?

I tried to watch it.

It's too slow for me.

Interesting.

I also think I was in the wrong mindset.

That's fair.

Watch it now and you'll probably appreciate it more.

The.

The.

And the history behind this.

Nosferatu was a.

Basically a bootleg unauthorized version ad Dracula.

Yeah.

I think movie that came out, like, that was unauthorized, and that's why it went by a different name.

It wasn't Dracula in that.

It's very clear that she's lonesome and wish.

It, like, makes a really bad, terrible demonic wish, basically, that locks her to Count Orlok.

And so there is some magic going on in that part of the story.

But I think the only thing in this movie that connects it is just his bride from the beginning, and, like, somehow her spirit has, like, reincarnated in her.

Yeah.

But it's still not explained very well.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The storytelling is all over the place.

Yeah.

But it's funny because I was kind of avoiding watching this movie again because I was like, I don't know if I'm ready for it.

And so I actually watched Priscilla, which is Sophia Coppola's movie.

And then I was like, I would rather watch very, very slow movie with nothing going on.

Yeah.

Ye.

Yeah.

And in.

And one thing I could never clear.

I tried to do a lot of research on this, and there was a lot of books that were suggested to read to kind of uncover some of the history.

My biggest question was the linking of Vlad the Impaler's history to the.

To the myth of Dracula.

Yeah.

And there were a bunch of books I could have read, but they weren't at the library.

They weren't on Amazon.

Like, I couldn't find these books anywhere.

Yeah.

I couldn't find them on Audible.

Like, babe, bro, ebay.

I probably could have, but then at that point, I was like, I don't care anymore.

Yeah.

Impale me for all I care.

But, yeah.

So just get right into it.

The funniest and the history of this movie is almost more interesting than the movie.

Yeah.

This movie was considered an apology to Francis Ford Coppola from Winona Rider.

So what the Godfather 3, many considered to be ruined by his.

His daughter, Sophia Coppola.

Right.

It's Sophia.

Right.

Oddly enough, his daughter is.

No.

Most people hate her.

Amazing director, horrible actress, and a lot of people blame her for why Godfather 3 was so horrible.

Interesting.

And.

And.

But that was supposed to be played by Wynonna Ryder.

Oh, okay.

She decided not to do it, and she wanted to basically, you know, apologize to Coppola.

So she actually brought this property to Coppola and said, let's make this.

And apparently he's obsessed with Dracula.

Like, he loves the old ones, and so he always wanted to do his own version of it.

And she brought him this script and this project.

I guess she.

She May have had rights.

I don't know why she had the property, but she brought it to him and.

And it was basically her apology.

Which is funny because from there on out, it was horrible because Copa said many times that he never got along with the cast.

Oh, no, that's awful.

That's why.

That's why Gary Oldman had many walk offs on set where they would argue about what he's supposed to do.

Which is funny because he has been filmed in many Q and as.

Praising Nolan, praising other directors for how he receives direction.

Yeah.

Because Nolan does everything in the rehearsal.

Yeah.

Once they're on, he.

And Coppola doesn't do that.

Got one note that he's ever received from Christopher Nolan in the middle of shooting and that was simply, hey, the stakes are higher.

That was his only.

His only note the whole film.

Yeah.

Everything else was taken care of in pre production and rehearsals.

So.

Yeah.

And I mean, I've seen enough videos from.

From Megalopolis of him dealing with Shia LaBeouf.

Like, imagine the two most headstrong people in Hollywood right now trying to work with each other, and it's basically them just yelling at each other, screaming at each other.

Him insulting Shia LaBeouf the whole time.

Yeah.

It's so, like, he does not seem like a pleasant person to work with.

Yeah.

Well, and I.

This is just me linking together all the research I've done over the years just in the film.

And.

And Apocalypse now is a top 10 movie for me.

Yeah.

And I wonder partially if Brando actually drove Copa insane because.

Because what Cop did on the set of Apocalypse now, to me, it's just unforgivable.

I mean, yeah, many consider him the greatest actor of all time, but he's also just the greatest child of all time.

He showed up 100 pounds overweight.

They had.

They couldn't use the uniforms.

Copal had to completely rewrite his part in the movie to basically show him in the.

In just at the end of the movie, he was supposed to be in the back half, but he basically is only on screen for 20 minutes.

And Brando was so self conscious about his weight gain that he like only wanted to be shown from the head up, which is why his character is always in the dark.

Like he basically.

And some days Brando would just walk around.

He wouldn't even prepare.

He wouldn't even.

He's like, I don't feel like he.

Was using an earpiece by then to have someone, like, read the script to it.

Yeah.

And he was getting paid millions of Dollars.

He was getting record breaking money.

And Coppola was already insane because the film went a year over on filming.

Yeah.

And.

And in the middle of Vietnam, In Vietnam.

And Coppola was literally suicidal.

And he leveraged his entire portfolio, his house, all the money he made on Godfather.

He leveraged on Apocalypse Now.

And I wonder.

That's a long way of saying, like, by the time he gets here, I'm like, is she just not.

He just doesn't.

He's probably like, so has so much PTSD from Brando.

Like, can he even deal with actors anymore?

Maybe it's just a paycheck to him at this point.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Maybe this movie was just a paycheck.

And Winona was like, I'll handle all that.

Yeah.

Because, I mean, I'll put it this way.

If.

If you're beefing with Keanu Reeves, something's wrong with you.

Well, that's the one person he didn't.

Okay.

Angel of a human being and knows how to deal with horrible people like him.

Yeah.

What's funny is, is he said that, that the reason Keanu, his performance didn't go great is because he tried too hard.

He hired a voice coach.

He rehearsed incessantly.

Keanu was obsessed with nailing this accent.

And he says the reason it's stiff, not natural.

It's because he tried too hard.

But he said, Keanu was the only actor I got along with.

It's because he's too nice, he worked too hard.

And I just, literally, I just love that there's so much evidence of the Keanu lore.

Like, I can't wait to die someday and be like, they never said a bad thing about Keanu.

He's the only guy.

Yeah.

I know.

You see a picture of him and his, like, girlfriend or his wife, and you're just like, I like him so much more now too.

He doesn't touch fans.

Like, when he takes pictures of the fans, he keeps his hands around.

Like, he doesn't.

Or if he puts his hand behind them, it's always like an inch off their body.

He doesn't touch them.

Like, just keep it up.

Yeah.

Here's the thing.

Even with his performance, though, I didn't hate fit with how over the top everyone else ended up being.

He and Anthony Hopkins were the only two that felt subdued.

And I was like, okay, this is actually kind of a nice break from the.

What the fuck is Gary Oldman doing?

Yes.

So, like, I don't know.

Yeah, it was.

It was not a good performance, but it wasn't bad either.

What's interesting is Johnny Depp was actually the first consideration.

That doesn't surprise me.

And the character.

Kind of just the design of the character.

Yeah.

Like, it was for Johnny Depp, but.

Wynonna thought that Keanu was more of a Prince type.

Yeah, yeah, I get that.

And in.

Keanu hadn't done anything super experimental yet, whereas Johnny had kind of started to explore more artistic roles.

So he was kind of already over being a heartthrob and kind of exploring more things.

Yeah.

I think it was good that Keanu was kind of.

He wasn't, like, in the background, but, like, I think he grounded the performance a little bit more because, like, I think Johnny Depp would have been a little too.

Here I am, and this is.

I'm the main character when it's clearly Dracula.

Actually, I disagree about that point in time because.

Have you seen what's eating Gilbert Grape?

No.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's really good when you see who.

Johnny Depp was before Jack Sparrow.

It's night and day and Benny and June.

Yeah.

Night and day.

Difference between who he is now.

Okay.

Yeah.

So I actually think he could have really pulled it off because he was.

He was known for that very, like.

Yes, he was a heartthrob, but his acting style was very subdued and very focused.

I just like Keanu in this role.

I don't.

I just love Keanu in general.

Yeah, he's my boy.

But, yeah, I don't think he would have hit the cartoonish levels he has after Jack Sparrow.

Yeah.

He definitely had a moment where it, like, it went off the rails part.

I think Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas was where he actually left.

Left the beach.

Because when he.

He literally became friends with Hunter S. Thompson to play him and lived with him.

He lived in Hunter S. Thompson's basement.

Yeah.

The drugs started.

Yeah.

And apparently he had a really hard time delineating between his own personality and Hunters for a while.

Like, surprised I've met people like that.

Yeah.

He's so scary.

Yeah, I know.

Yeah.

Yeah, they are.

They latch on.

Yeah.

I'm like that with Movie Wars.

It's hard to delineate Kyle and Movie Wars.

I'm just kidding.

No, there's no.

There's no dual personalities.

One thing I did love here, and.

And I actually learned to love this more about this film.

Coppola's anti CGI stance, I think, actually not only was prevalent here, but it went as far as, like, the shadows on the wall.

Yeah.

When they're doing something separate.

That's a real actor making shadows on the wall.

There is no CGI here.

And he.

And I do admire the practical effects because he was like.

All the Renfield scenes.

I don't know you, like.

In our last podcast, you talked about Dutch angles.

I don't know what this angle is called, but all the prison cell scenes that are like diagonal and up, like, that's very much a.

Yeah, that was.

I don't know if it was quite invented by Orson Wells for Citizen Came, but that's one of those shots that became very famous.

Yeah, I mean, it's.

It's a lot of technically, like, bird's eye view.

Like, even though if it's not directly above it, when it's such a high angle looking down on people, it's usually kind of a bird's eye view situation.

It.

I mean, that is something I will also give this movie.

The cinematography is quite good.

It's insane.

It is some of the best cinematography from a 90s movie I have ever seen.

It's just for every good thing, there's like four bad things I could pick out so easily.

I feel like this is another one of those movies where if you could re edit it, it would be so much better now, you know, because it's like.

It's almost like these little odd things where you're like, why is this happening?

Why is Anthony Hopkins kissing Winona Ryder now?

What.

Where did the story just go?

I'm like, he was so horny.

He's just like, no, you kiss her now.

You kiss her now.

Everybody kiss her now.

Have sex with the wolf.

I know you're asking, why is there a wolf now?

Who cares?

Have sex with it.

You know what I want to do?

I want to bring Monica Balloon Lucci in here, and I want to get her naked.

Let's bring her in.

Let's do this.

Have sex with the.

The Siamese person.

Yeah, do it.

Can you lick his nipple a bunch of times really fast?

Like, we're gonna do this shot all day?

Yeah.

Okay.

This is today.

This is the whole day.

What is crazy is, you know, after, apparently after the traumatic Apocalypse now film shoot about being trapped in the Philippines, this was 99 on a soundstage in Los Angeles.

It looked like it.

So he's.

He could be.

And I do like the set pieces.

Yeah, yeah.

See, again, like, sets, costumes, makeup, cinematography, all incredible.

Everything else terrible.

Yeah.

I will say, though, the.

The.

The Vlad the Paler Armor.

That's pretty killer.

That was killer.

That's a different movie.

That is a whole.

Yeah, it is.

It's a different movie.

It's a different movie.

Yeah, it's, it is.

See that's the thing is I, I, I do kind of wish movies would go back to this over stylized situation where you are utilizing a sound stage and like very fairy tale whimsical lighting.

Yeah.

Because again, another thing in a lot of places this movie got right was, was augmenting the set with the correct lighting.

And, and I just feel like we don't even if we have good dynamic lighting anymore, we don't try to utilize that kind of uncanny fantasy valley that you can do with over the top sets.

As long as it's lit correctly.

Right.

Yeah.

I feel like they don't want to take the time, unfortunately.

I know.

It's so dumb.

I know.

And they do it in post.

They do so much lighting and post.

Now I know like in lighting to me is like the most important part of any movie.

Oh, absolutely.

Anything.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

And so, but ultimately, I mean, so Coppola went into this movie, you know, his film production company, American Zoetrope was broke.

He was out of money because he made a bunch of flop in the 80s.

But this movie was a 40 million dollar budget.

Made 215 million.

Nice.

He was able to.

Yep, yep.

And if that's, I think that's how he got into the wine business.

That's how he founded the Coppola Winery.

I think was on this.

It's really good wine actually.

Yeah, everybody's got a winery.

Yeah, everybody.

Now everybody's got tequila.

He was one of the first ones.

Yeah, yeah.

But now everybody's got.

Yeah, I don't, I don't drink anymore.

I've been sober for over a year.

But I did love the claret.

Yeah, the Coppola claret was my favorite actual one.

That one was solid.

Their Pinot Noir was, is really good.

Yeah, I don't drink wine.

You should.

Gives me a headache.

Just one glass.

I can drink a half a bottle of whiskey and be fine the next day.

But if I drink one glass of wine, I'm, I'm done.

Yeah.

If they make a whiskey company, let me know.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I like a whiskey.

Hell yeah.

More of a whiskey.

That's good to know.

Yeah.

Maybe you saw a girl that reminded you of your crusade.

Aged love that killed herself when she thought you died, but you didn't.

Maybe you need to apologize to Francis Ford Copeland.

Bring him the craziest script you can find.

Maybe you Impaled everybody.

Maybe.

Maybe you should just stop impaling people and share Movie Wars.

Maybe you like blood.

Yeah.

Share Movie wars and find your ancient love.

Yeah.

Yes.

Love you.

By the way, I. I love the old time period where, like, you were just kind of known for a thing and Vlad was just.

He was impaling and he was impaling.

Always be impaling people.

I love that.

I feel like the way that they would refer to knights and like, people of importance back in the day is now how, like the Italian mob gives.

Gives people nicknames.

Yeah.

It's like, ah, Jimmy the little Dick.

There you go.

How you doing, buddy?

Jimmy Razor blades.

He's always cutting people with razor blade blades.

Tony, girl stuff.

We like you.

So funny.

I haven't thought of Vlad the Impaler in so long, but, like, I actually did my senior thesis in college at Parsons for fashion design on Vlad the Impaler.

Wow.

It was all very similar to, like, kind of like capes and.

Nice.

And then you designed lots of hats.

The Vlad Impaler line, that was your first fashion line.

Yeah, yeah.

It had a lot.

It was actually a lot with the armor was the inspiration.

A lot of it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So see that hole in the middle of the shirt?

That's where he impaled you.

Yeah, yeah.

That's all the blood.

That's what.

Every shirt you sell just has a hole right here.

Yeah, a bunch of holes.

I gotta say, fashion, given the movie.

The jokes around this movie that we're generating are.

Are really entertaining for me.

I'm liking where this is going because.

There'S no jokes in the movie at all.

No, that was one thing.

I thought if they had made this today, there would be.

There were so many moments, especially with Anthony Hopkins, where I was like, there could be a joke there.

There could be a joke there.

There could be some funny.

And they would do that now if it was a now movie.

I mean, even.

Even Nosferatu has great moments of humor.

Every movie now has humor in it.

Yeah, every movie, especially horror.

Rant over.

Rant over.

Rando.

Rando.

Randos.

Yeah.

Wow.

So many of my randos were actually my history.

That's crazy.

That's crazy.

Maybe we'll just.

We gotta have some randos.

I know we have some random.

What happened to my.

Did I just.

Did you read the randos instead of the history.

I did?

Well, no, they're very much the same.

They're very much the same.

I'm gonna have to do some fancy editing here.

So one rando was that when Gary Oldman licks the razor.

Yeah, he did that because he was drunk.

Apparently.

He was drunk.

Oh, that makes me love him even more.

I'm obsessed.

Was it this movie?

I heard, like, everyone was kind of just drunk all the time.

Yeah.

How.

How does my own writer look that good drunk.

Oh, my God.

So that's why the accent was terrible.

Oh, yeah.

Well, after watching Stranger Things, which she still looks great, but then coming back to watching this and she's glowing from within, I was like, oh, my God.

God, she's just.

No wonder she's a movie star.

Oh, my God.

But I think they were trying to do a Transylvanian accent and I couldn't hear them.

Like, I couldn't understand a word Dracula said the whole time, which I didn't need to.

Yeah, I had subtitles on, so it kind of helped.

I should have done that.

I do that for a lot of shows because I just can't hear anything.

Yeah.

But, yeah, see, while he's looking at more randos to compare his Dracula to the way that Bill Skarsgard did Nosferatu, he is so much more terrifying because he literally trained with an operatic voice coach to get his voice an octave lower than it was and to sustain it for the whole show.

And it is terrifying.

Oh, yeah.

No, I remember that from watching Nosferatu.

I've got to go back and I've watched, like, half of it.

Okay.

Don't ask me why I ended up stopping it.

I just wasn't in the right head.

No, that totally makes sense.

I did the same.

I think it's Robert Eggers for some people, because for me, I did that with the witch.

I got halfway through and I was like, I gotta stop.

I did that with the witch and I did that with a lighthouse.

Yeah, yeah.

I've got to be in the zone.

I have to, like, have cut out all dopamine of my, like, brain for like, two days to watch an Eggers film.

Yeah, yeah, It's.

It's a lot.

The Northman's the only one I could watch anytime, any day.

Okay.

But yeah, those are the three.

I'm like, I've got to be in a mood.

Yeah.

Which I love.

I'm so glad he makes movies like that.

I love anybody that makes a good, heavy ass movie, you know, just want a heavy, odd moment.

But randos.

Oh, we're back.

We're back to the randos.

We were just doing a commercial.

I love it.

We were talking a lot about the CGI Francis Ford Copa.

Actually, he fired the entire Special effects department replaced them with his son, Roman Copa.

Right, I forgot about that.

I heard about that.

Because they kept.

Apparently because CGI was just so.

It was starting to really catch wind, and special effects were starting to become what it was, and he wanted zero of it.

And apparently, like, the only special effects people he could find, they just kept pushing him to do it.

He's like, literally want to use shadow puppets.

And so his son, Roman Coppola, ended up taking over all the effects department.

I mean, it wasn't the worst effects I've ever seen.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, I love.

You know how I am.

I love natural effects.

Oh, man.

I love the monster, however, that is like.

So you know how, like the furry monster guy is like.

So there was something that was confusing.

Yeah.

Finish your thought then.

I want to ask a question.

Question.

Well, it's just like, I've never seen my husband represented in a movie, and that was him.

So I don't want to be too graphic about it, but I was like, that's what that is.

If we were gonna have a baby, that's what it would look like.

The process.

Amazing.

Was that a wolfman or was that Dracula in.

In a third form?

Yeah.

I don't know.

I.

Was he a big bat?

Because Dracula becomes a bat, But I think so.

I think that.

That what it was trying to show is that, like, as he gets older and he takes more lives, he becomes more of a creature.

And like, sure, but it was a.

Totally different one than he ended up being.

But it's like.

I think it was like a.

Supposed to show a progression, and then the farther away he is from getting fresh blood, I think the more scary and monstrous he is.

But then also, I think it has to do with his mood, because if you remember when he's crying, when he cries himself ugly that time, it's just his face.

I also don't think any of it makes sense.

Yeah.

So there could be that as well.

I had all these theories, but I also don't think any of it makes sense.

Could be everyone was just drunk.

There could be that.

Really.

But I love the monster at the end, specifically.

That was very funny.

And I also was like, oh, my God, I want to marry that guy.

Yeah.

Some of that has.

Has a lot of issue.

You mentioned this earlier just like.

Or I think it was you with the time and place, like, where are we?

When are we?

Yeah, yeah.

Like, what's fun?

What is his distance from the last time he had blood?

You know, like.

Yeah, because you.

Like, you said like, yeah.

The farther he gets away from his last drink, like, he's more decrepit.

But then it kind of felt like in the timeline, he also was able to turn into the wolf and go hunt Lucy down in the garden.

And I'm just like, wait a second.

I thought you hadn't had blood in a while.

It's like, are you feeling good right now?

Why are you 10,000 years old?

Yeah, exactly.

And Ren.

Yeah.

And Renfield.

Like, why did Renfield, like, you think he would have just finished him off.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

And finally.

Because he could have used some of that blood, but instead, he's his servant in the prison now, and it's like.

I don't know.

There's a lot of weird dis.

Like, yeah, Renfield made me.

Made this whole thing feel like a Tim Burton movie to me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

It definitely did.

You know whose idea it was to decapitate Dracula at the end?

Oh, Winona, close.

George Lucas.

Nice.

Yeah, it was George Lucas's idea.

Where did he come from?

I don't.

He just popped out of nowhere.

Monster at the end, he was like, Ben Lucas.

It's like, hey, you've never filmed a film in Los Angeles before.

You're not in the Philippines.

Here are my ideas.

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

I mean, he was between franchises at.

The time, so I was wondering why she cuts his head off at the end.

Because I was like, if they just got.

If they.

If he was only stabbed, couldn't he come back to life?

Wasn't that the point?

And I was like, don't you.

Isn't the point that she's going back with him into the temple, that they're gonna live forever?

Why is she now cutting off his head again?

This movie doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, because that's also where I was confused.

I'm like, does she love him?

Has she been pulled under his spell?

Is she faking it?

Like, what the Is going on?

I know.

Yeah.

But then why would she let everybody else leave her there in this castle alone?

Maybe because he had to believe her, I guess.

But then why would you care?

He's already dying.

Cut off his head and leave with Keanu.

Yeah, Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't know.

But then she's in the stained glass up there.

Oh, so.

Good point.

When you're in the stained glass, there's no going back.

Kind of a good point.

And, like, her face is, like, painted on, like, the floor and the ceiling.

Yeah.

It's like the perfect bleed.

Out spot.

Like, if you were gonna leave this podcast and all of a sudden your face was just in the stained glass, you're like, I could never leave this place.

They did a stained glass.

I could never leave, say, Seth's house.

This is funny, too.

This plays back into Gary Oldman just hating everything about working for Francis Ford Coppola.

This is amazing.

This actually confirms your question earlier.

So one of the forms is a bat suit.

That's what.

That's what it was referred to.

He was a grown giant bat, and Gary Oldman did not think it was scary, and he didn't like being in it.

Like, he's just like, why are we doing this?

This is not.

This is not scary.

This is comical.

It's also not Dracula.

When is he a bat?

Or when is he a. I don't know.

He is a bad baby, but not a big bat.

But he's like.

It's just a weird interpretation of it.

Yeah, it was like, man bat from Batman, man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They're like, don't bother to make him too scary.

Yeah, he's kind of cute.

Make him a little cute.

Oh, and I love.

Don't see me.

See me.

We haven't even talked about the.

The top hat scene.

No.

Oh, yeah.

That, like, made so many hipsters wear top hats.

Yes.

So many men have bought a top hat.

1993 was a good year for the top hat and a bad year for fashion.

There are a lot of people who have made this movie.

Their personality, by the way.

I feel like we could get a lot of hate comments from this.

Bring it.

Oh, yeah.

There's definitely a following.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, last rando.

For all the.

All the.

We just gave this movie.

It won three Oscars or three Academy Awards.

Costume design.

Okay, well, that effects and sound editing.

So the three best makeups about this.

Movie, everything we said.

Yeah, we nailed it.

Nailed it.

Yeah, we picked out everything good.

Yeah.

I mean, it's.

It's definitely.

It's definitely original.

It's definitely, like, you know, I just don't get it, man.

I didn't get a chance.

We just got done doing Wolf of Wall street, which was interesting because I'm such a Scorsese fanboy.

But Coppola's also In my top 10 with Apocalypse now, and I have, like, a very odd, weird reverence for Apocalypse Now.

Not just the movie, but how it was made, the documentary about it.

Like, I just love that whole thing.

Yeah, cool.

But.

But if I have to compare, like, how I. I don't Like Martin Scorsese's back nine compared to Coppola's back nine.

It's.

It's such a night and day difference.

Like my, like Wolf and Wall street is a masterpiece compared to this.

If you're talking about back end films on the back end of their career.

Yeah.

Scorsese still has it compared to this.

And this is 92.

Yeah.

Coppola.

Yeah.

He just, you know, I.

It's hard to pin down what it is because obviously Godfather 1 and 2 are just film canon.

And they are.

And they are just perfect films.

And Apocalypse now to me is a perfect film.

Yeah.

But I don't know.

Go ahead.

I don't know what it is.

I think I might have just figured it out.

What is it?

Because you know how you said that he loves it and he loved Dracula.

Do you ever.

You, like, sometimes you love something too much.

Like he loved it and he squeezed it to death, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

Like he just loved it too much and he tried to do everything.

And that's where all the simplicity that makes film so beautiful and perfect.

Yeah.

Falls away.

And I feel like that's where all film, good filmmakers are, like, they make the decision because they.

They kill their babies.

And I mean, I can see that because Nosferatu, Robert Eggers, that was also his, like, favorite.

That was.

That was the one.

He was like, I don't care if people watch it.

I make this for me.

Right.

And you really see it in his storytelling.

Yes.

The sets are immaculate.

The way he tells the story is great.

But he's always keeps it with the most simple bits of information you need.

Yeah.

To get through the movie.

Yeah.

It's never too over the top.

It's never anything.

Absolutely batshit crazy.

I wonder if that also has to do with, like, working with the editor really closely because.

Yeah.

I also feel like the editing of this movie was kind of the problem a little bit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We don't talk a lot about that.

I feel like editing or.

We do talk about that plenty.

I mean, the best movies, you don't notice the editing.

You never notice the editing.

And that's the most important person on the team, I think.

Yeah.

They make the movie.

Yeah.

They make or break the movie.

I mean, they.

The actors say this all the time.

If.

If there's anyone you don't want to piss off, it's the editor, because they will make you look like you can't act.

They will.

Yeah.

Because you can.

Wow.

Yeah.

Especially if you leave a lot of space in between your lines.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, they will make it.

If, If.

If they hate you, they will make you never get work again.

Oh, yeah.

So sad.

The questions, the questions.

Really simple question here.

Is this movie actually scary?

No.

I was rock hard the whole time.

That was scary.

That was terrifying.

The tent pants were scary.

Walked in and was like, what are you watching now?

Yeah, that's a cat, if you don't know.

Yeah.

Harrison Ford showed up at my house and was like, I'm not doing this.

He's bricked up.

No, it's not scary at all.

This was not like.

Like, the first five minutes were great and terrifying.

And then after that, I was like, why?

Yeah, yeah.

There's nothing scary about this movie.

Actually, when I.

After I was done, I looked and I was like, checked this, like, category.

I was like, oh, horror.

Yeah.

Not horror.

Yeah, yeah.

This was definitely a horror movie.

Yeah.

You sure it wasn't horror, actually?

Because it's mostly just Lucy having orgasms.

Yeah.

Woohors.

They do have a lot of.

You know, there's, like, more Lucy in this movie than there is.

I was gonna say Ethel, but, you know.

Winona.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I mean, same with Lucy's fiance and Keanu Reeves.

Keanu.

The two of them are barely in this movie.

Yeah.

I will say Carry Ells is the best actor in this movie.

Yeah.

100.

And that's funny because I don't even think he's that good of an actor in most movies.

Yeah.

Even Anthony Hopkins coming off of his Oscar for.

Yeah.

He's a little hammy, I think.

And I hate to say this, and I love him, and I'm gonna get a lot of for this.

And I have a beloved.

The reason I became a writer was because of my love of Thomas Harris's Red Dragon, Sounds of Lambs.

Those were my first books I was obsessed with.

I have a very special reverence for Hannibal Lecter.

Yeah.

After Hannibal Lecter, you can find a lot of roles with Anthony Hopkins where he feels kind of like he's mailing it in.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But also when you hit that level and you've done your most defining role, you're kind of just like, all right, cool.

Yeah.

You want me to do Thor and be Odin?

I'll do it.

Why not?

Yeah.

He's not trying here.

No.

In fact, it's something fun for him to do, and it makes him millions of dollars.

His line deliveries rushed.

Yeah.

Doesn't it feel like he's reading?

Yeah.

Did you feel that way?

Did you feel like he was reading in some of these scenes.

Yeah, yeah, there was something going on.

He just didn't seem very grounded.

But see, here's also the thing, and this is coming from someone who's worked on great film sets and someone who has worked on some of the worst film sets that have ever existed.

Existed.

I will watch actors show up halfway through a shoot and they can survey the set and immediately know if it's going to be good or bad.

Really?

Oh, yeah, the good ones, absolutely.

And I have.

I have been involved in those projects where I watch someone show up on day three of six, and they're only there for days three and four and they'll just look around and I could see on their face they're like.

Yeah, they sense it.

They sense the chaos of how bad everything is going.

Right.

It's not.

I mean, Yeah.

A disorganized film set.

A film set where there's so much strife and tension between.

Especially when it comes from a director.

Holy shit.

Yeah, it's.

It's.

And so at that point, I'm sure he's like, cool, I'll get money and I will do a passable job.

Yeah.

Sometimes you're just going to work.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sometimes we're in the background of national 911 and we like it.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, you know what I mean?

And bar patient.

That's why we can't get a call back.

And oddly enough, this put Gary Oldman on the map.

I mean, he done cinedancy.

He, you know, he had some.

He was in jfk.

He had done some stuff.

Yeah.

But this is like the one that, like, say, Gary Oldman is an actor.

Yeah.

And.

But he's also very.

He was still very like, the, like, theater was his method.

He didn't.

To me, he wasn't overacting.

He was overacting for film.

Because I think just.

Just from watching it, you kind of see that Coppola almost took a stage theatrical point of view from it.

Yeah.

So I feel like he was just trying to lean into whatever was going on.

And I bet Hopkins showed up and he was like, who is this guy in the Japanese Dracula costume?

And what the hell is his problem.

With the, like, 15 foot cape?

Like, what the fuck?

I will say he did.

Gary Oldman did go from this directly to True Romance as Drexel the pimp, which is his best role.

His best role.

His best role ever, ever.

Four minutes ever.

Four minutes on screen.

The best role of anyone ever.

Incredible.

Yeah.

Drexel, if you ever see Romance, it must Be White Boy Day.

But he goes from JFK to this Dracula and then directly to Drexel the Pimp.

And White Boy Day is.

Why would it whiteboard what a transition.

Incredible it is, though.

And then Leon the Professional range.

Yeah, what range?

Which.

A reminder.

That's why we're doing this.

Speaking to the guy that directed Leon the Professional.

We're doing this because he is now releasing his Dracula in this country.

Yeah.

It comes out on Friday.

Thursday.

Friday.

So let us know what you think.

I probably am going to skip it.

I haven't heard great things, but Kristoff Waltz apparently does a passable job, so we'll see what happens.

I will totally watch it after this.

I'm not in the mood.

I love Luke Basson.

I love the Fifth Element enough to watch anything.

Fifth Element was great.

I actually enjoyed Valyrian.

Oh, yeah.

I thought it was fun.

I mean, I like that model that they cast as the main character, Cara Deline.

Yeah.

I love her eyebrows.

Yeah.

Very cool.

Next question.

Did Coppola stain the legacy of Dracula by turning it into a rapist stalker tragic soulmate story slash Romeo Juliet, Weird Wolfman thing.

I mean, did Joel Schumacher ruin Batman for a generation?

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

With nipples.

Literally.

Just nipples.

Yeah.

I still find those very fun.

I love the nipples.

I love George Clooney.

I love Poison Ivy.

You guys are never going to.

I think I'm naming the wrong ones.

I think ones.

No.

Schumacher.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This is to Dracula.

What.

What Joel Schumacher is to Batman.

It's just.

That's a.

There's a.

There's a group of people who love it and will die on that hill.

And then there's the rest of us who are like, yeah, this was not.

Not great.

I'm so weirdly in both camps.

Like, I will die on a hill for this movie.

I love this movie.

I love the top hat.

I love the gray suit.

I'm still obsessed with his, like, weird mullet.

Yeah.

And in everything that Gary Oldman is doing in this movie, I'm obsessed with Winona Ryder.

But, yeah.

I'm also in the.

In this camp of, like, none of it makes any sense.

Yeah.

The whole movie is just.

It is just.

It looks like he just loved it too much.

And it kind of reminds me of almost like a student film almost.

And, like, my criticism to him would be like, what is the story?

Yeah.

Yeah.

What is the main story?

What are you doing?

But I don't think he ruined it.

I don't think you can ever ruin anything because somebody Else can go in and fix it.

And again, you could go re edit this movie.

Make it an hour and a half long.

Yeah.

And like, he tried that with Godfather 3.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Which it honestly is not.

It's marginally better, but it's not better.

Yeah.

I need to go rewatch it again.

Me and my grandmother would always watch those, so.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I. I think, in a way.

Here's the thing.

I'm not a fan of monster genres.

I think this fits in the Frankenstein, Wolfman, Dracula.

Like, you know, there's like.

There's like three or four pillars of what you would call monster horror.

Yeah.

And I'm not into any of them.

I'm not.

I. I don't hate them.

But, like, I have no basis for this.

Like, I don't.

It's not like my genre.

And I love horror, but not this type of horror.

Like, the new Frankenstein came out, the G otoro one.

I could care less.

If we review it, I'll watch it, but I'm not going to go watch it.

So to say, if it ruined it, I don't know.

But to.

To answer your question, I.

And I think ambiguity can be a beautiful tool in a filmmaker's tool belt.

Yeah.

And ambiguity, like ending with ambiguity or having ambiguous care, like, whatever it is, can be used.

Yeah.

But this is an ambiguity.

This is continuity.

Yeah.

And there's zero of it.

Like, is she.

Is she really a reincarnation?

I don't know.

Is she under a spell or is she just, like, aloof?

I don't know.

Is Keanu, like, did he age.

Did he really age 50 years and get a gray.

Gray hair?

Was he there that long?

Like, also, like, was Dracula really Dracula?

Jesus Christ.

I knew that was gonna happen.

Was Dracula really a bad guy?

So all this, that Dracula can do, like, with Renfield and going and turning into Wolfman and Lucy, that whole thing.

But, like, Keanu was able to escape his haunted castle.

Like, I just.

There's just no.

And, like, the ending you asked.

Like.

And she doesn't go back to Keanu, but she's in the glass and.

Yeah.

So is she not out.

If she's under a spell, is she not out front of the spell?

Or she actually reincarnated?

Is she going with them?

It's like, there's no rules.

No.

And this random flames.

Yeah.

Just.

And Keanu, his character even talks about.

I went through a thing of flames.

It's just like.

I know you did go through the flames.

It kind of feels like they never sat down and were like, this is what Dracula can do.

Yeah.

And this is what Dracula can't do.

Yeah, yeah.

What can't he do?

Nothing.

Yeah.

They were like, they down in the.

You know what, they never wrote this movie.

They just showed up on set and they were like, let's just see what happens.