Most speakers think joining a bureau is the finish line. Dominic Eldred-Earl, who books speakers for London Speaker Bureau and speaks himself, explains why it's closer to the starting line.

He breaks down the real difference between a speaker agent and a speaker bureau, why simply being added to a bureau's database doesn't mean the whole team knows you exist, and the specific mechanic behind why newer names sit invisible at the bottom of internal search results. He also shares the one legitimate shortcut speakers use to jump that queue, what fee range actually makes a booking worth a bureau's time, and why bureaus paradoxically want you least when you need them most.

Beyond the bureau mechanics, this one covers what visibility actually looks like to a booker, why information-heavy speaking is losing ground to connection and storytelling, and where the paying opportunities outside the corporate stage actually are.

Want the PDF of this episode's highlights? Here's the link: https://present-influence.kit.com/ddf7974237

Connect with Dominic: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dominicee/

London Speaker Bureau: londonspeakerbureau.com

FAQ Section

Q: What's the difference between a speaker agent and a speaker bureau?

A: A speaker agent represents a smaller, curated portfolio of speakers and sells them directly. A speaker bureau is client-focused rather than speaker-focused: it takes in a brief from a booking client and searches a large roster of speakers across many categories to find a fit.

Q: Why do speakers join bureaus and still not get booked?

A: Bureaus search internal databases by keyword and filter, and results typically surface speakers who've been booked most recently first. A speaker with no prior bookings through that bureau sits at the bottom of the list, effectively invisible, regardless of how long they've been listed.

Q: What's the shortcut to appear higher in a bureau's search results?

A: Passing an existing inbound enquiry through the bureau to close, even at reduced or no fee, creates a recorded booking. That booking moves the speaker up the "recently booked" ranking for future searches on similar criteria.

Q: What speaker fee makes a booking worthwhile for a bureau?

A: Roughly £2,000 upwards from the client is workable, though the bureau's percentage is higher at the lower end to cover minimum costs. Higher fee brackets, around £8,000 and up, give more room for both speaker and bureau.

Q: Should a speaker approach a bureau before they have clear positioning?

A: No. Bureau consultants need to describe a speaker's value quickly to clients, so unclear or unniched messaging makes a speaker very difficult to put forward, regardless of talent.

Q: What makes a speaker "visible" to a bureau?

A: Primarily consistent, valuable LinkedIn activity with genuine interaction and comments from event attendees (not just other speakers), plus positive word of mouth from past clients when a bureau consultant checks references.

Are your speaker fees high enough? Check out this fast speaker fee audit tool to find out: https://presentinfluence.com/speakingfeequiz

For speaking enquiries or to connect with me, you can email [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn

You can find all our clips, episodes and more on the Present Influence YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@PresentInfluence

Thanks for listening. Rating the show 5* on Spotify helps their algo recommend the show, so please take a moment to follow the show and leave a rating.

Every speaker gets told the same advice: join the bureaus, get

2

on the database, wait for the phone

to ring, and then it doesn't ring.

3

Most speakers assume that

means the bureau failed them.

4

today's guest books speakers for a living,

and he's going to explain exactly why

5

that assumption is wrong, how a bureau's

internal database actually ranks you,

6

and the one unglamorous shortcut that

gets you seen before you've built a name.

7

Dominic Eldredell works with London

Speaker Bureau and is also a speaker

8

himself, so he sits on both sides of this.

9

If you've ever wondered why joining

a bureau didn't change anything,

10

this episode is the answer.

11

Welcome to Professional Speaking.

12

This is the show for people who

are serious about speaking and

13

becoming known, booked, and paid.

14

My name's John Ball, professional

speaking coach, keynote speaker, and

15

stand-up comedian, and sci-fi nerd.

16

I'm here as your guide on the journey

to a successful speaking career

17

Welcome to the show and, well,

big welcome into the virtual

18

studio for Dominic Eldred Earl.

19

Dominic Eldred-Earl:

Thank you very much, John.

20

Looking forward to it

21

John: It's great to have you on the show,

and I, I think this is a first for this

22

show, Professional Speaking, because I

don't think I've had anyone from a speaker

23

bureau or who's involved with speaker

bureaus before on the show as well.

24

Now, I know that you are involved

with the London Speaker Bureau, but

25

you're also a, a speaker as well.

26

And, I really wanted to start off with,

getting us a better, clearer understanding

27

of what speaker bureaus are and what they

aren't, because I think a lot of speakers

28

are a little uncertain or confused about

what speaker bureaus do or don't do

29

Dominic Eldred-Earl: Oh, absolutely.

30

Yes, it is, it is a mystical

world, shall we say.

31

yeah, I mean, for speakers, I,

I guess you could say there's

32

essentially three routes to market.

33

So there is directly doing all the

legwork yourself, finding your own

34

gigs, getting out there, getting your

referrals and everything, that sort

35

of thing, which is one way to do it,

and is the way that the majority of

36

speakers start off with, to be fair.

37

After that, you then have the world

of speaker agents and speaker bureaus.

38

Now, there is, there is a distinction

between those two, or at least there

39

is in my world and my perception of

them, in that agents will take on a

40

smaller portfolio of speakers who they

then will go out and sell, and they'll

41

either sell them directly to end clients,

or they will sell them to bureaus.

42

And here's where the bureau comes

in and is distinct from the agent,

43

because the bureau is client-focused.

44

They are booker-focused.

45

They are not speaker-focused,

to some degree.

46

There is a bit of overlap between the two.

47

So a bureau will essentially get in briefs

from clients, and they will then go to

48

their large, big, black book, which has

a whole plethora of speakers in it, to

49

find which are the best for that client.

50

Now, whereas agencies may well look

to specialize in certain types of

51

speakers, the chances are that a bureau

will, will deal with a much wider

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variety of speakers, all the way from

politicians and economists through to

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wellbeing and after-dinner talent and,

and all sorts of things like that.

54

So hopefully that gives an

idea of the, the sort of spaces

55

John: No, it really does, and that,

that's a very helpful answer as well.

56

let, let me ask you this 'cause I, I come

across a number of people who when I ask

57

them things like, "Well, what are you

doing to get speaking gigs at the moment?"

58

Often one of the answers I'll get

is, "Well, I've joined loads of

59

speaking bureaus," and they're

not really getting gigs from that.

60

let me ask you, why might it be that

they've joined speaker bureaus and they're

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not getting a lot of work from that?

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Dominic Eldred-Earl: Ah, yes.

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The, the myth that if you join a

bureau you're gonna-- suddenly your

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speaking diary's going to be full.

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I don't know, am I allowed

to plug a book here?

66

Not

67

John: course.

68

Please do.

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Dominic Eldred-Earl: for anyone

listening who hasn't already seen

70

it, I can highly recommend Maria

Franzoni's The Bookability Formula book.

71

I mean, that, that will take you through

a lot of this and a lot of the business

72

side of speaking, which to be fair,

a, a lot of speakers potentially do

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not understand and that, and, and you

demonstrate with that question, you know.

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Why, why when I've got myself on

all these bureaus am I not getting

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called in to speak everywhere?

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As I said, you know, a bureau is, is

more booker focused than speaker focused.

77

So it's probably easiest if I

explain the process that happens

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when a, a brief comes from a client.

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So brief comes in from the client,

the first place a consultant

80

will go to will be their head.

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Who do they already know

who can fill this brief?

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And as that's the first place

they go, they're going to hit on

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to people that they already know,

like, and trust to do the job.

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And if they don't know about you,

then you're not in that first

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sort of filtering of people.

86

then they'll go to the database, and

they'll run a whole set of filters on,

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you know, fees, location, topics, all

those sorts of things on the database.

88

And the database that I use typically

comes up with whoever has been

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booked most recently at the top.

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So if you're new to a speaker

bureau, and you've not been booked

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by that speaker bureau yet, you

are not gonna be in that list.

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You're gonna be way off at

the bottom of it 'cause you

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have not yet got any bookings.

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So I'm not gonna find you there either.

95

The most likely way I'm gonna get to

find you is if I haven't been successful

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with the client with the ones I've

suggested so far, and I then post on

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the internal sort of blog thing and

say, "Hey, I've got this brief, my

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client's looking for this sort of thing.

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Who, who can you think of?"

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And somebody else mentions you.

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And will only happen if they

happen to have read the blog

102

and all that sort of thing.

103

So just by getting the, the marketing

department or someone at a bureau

104

to add you to their database does

not mean that everybody in the

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organization then knows about you

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John: Of

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Dominic Eldred-Earl: It's that next

stage of getting to be known by the

108

other consultants in the bureau that is

one of the most difficult things to do.

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But there are some shortcuts

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John: Oh, good.

111

Let's l- I definitely

wanna hear what they are

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Dominic Eldred-Earl: The shortcut.

113

Well, you remember that second stage

that I mentioned to you is we go to the

114

database, and we search the database

based on keyword and, and other filters,

115

and who comes up at the top is those

who've been booked most recently.

116

You might be seeing where I'm going here.

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John: Mm-hmm.

118

Dominic Eldred-Earl: So if you're a

speaker, if you've got an incoming

119

inquiry, and if you're willing to pass it

over to the bureau to deal with to secure

120

that booking, you then suddenly appear

in that list of most recently booked

121

speakers for that sort of search criteria.

122

So you will be up top of the list.

123

You will be essentially on that first

page of Google as it, as it used to be.

124

I don't, I don't know what it is

nowadays with all the, the AI searching

125

John: I have no idea either.

126

Dominic Eldred-Earl: I know, you

know, the, the first page of Google

127

used to be the target, but, so yeah.

128

So that's essentially the

way to, to shortcut that

129

getting up the, the listings.

130

Now, of course, there is a cost to that

because bureaus don't work for free.

131

John: Of

132

Dominic Eldred-Earl: We do have to

make a minimum sort of margin on the

133

jobs that we do in order to make it

worthwhile, A, for our time, and B,

134

for the admin staff who deal with

it and all of that sort of stuff.

135

So there, there, there is a

margin that we need to make on

136

it, so it needs to be viable.

137

And you know, I've worked in all sorts of

situations, so I have had speakers who've

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come to me, they've passed me a brief, and

it's been a decent budget that they've had

139

from the client, so you know, everybody's

been able to take something from it.

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I have also had speakers who've come

to me, and their client only has a

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really low budget, but they were happy

to not take a fee in order to do the

142

job through the bureau so that they

would appear on the, on the list.

143

So there's, there's a, there's

a number of ways to sort of,

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shall we say, game the system

145

John: Right.

146

but I'm cur- I, I'm definitely curious

about this, and I wanna dig a little

147

deeper into it, because I'm also kind of

thinking, well, I have, I've also come

148

across some speakers who said, well,

they've, they've, sometimes been offered

149

gigs from the speaker bureaus that maybe

not high-paid gigs, but, just something

150

that's got them booked somewhere.

151

But oft- sometimes they've had to create,

create a talk for it to fit the brief

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'cause it doesn't really fit with the,

the stuff that they've already got.

153

Seems like a lot of work for not

a lot of money, but it gets you

154

onto that being perhaps being

more noticed sort of aspect of it.

155

So I can see, I can see benefit from that.

156

But what about speakers who, I guess

there must be speakers who come to you

157

whose brand, whose maybe lane isn't

quite always so clear to be able to

158

really fit them into, "All right.

159

Oh, right, this is really

what they're about."

160

what happens with, with people

whose maybe haven't quite

161

figured out their positioning?

162

Dominic Eldred-Earl: I would

say in that case, they are

163

not ready to talk to a bureau.

164

To be honest, time is precious.

165

So those in the bureau, the people

they're gonna remember for the

166

jobs they're gonna put forward are

the ones who have clear messaging.

167

It is, it is worth doing that little

bit of niche, niching down to know

168

exactly what your target market is.

169

You know, what, what sort of people

you wanna get in front of, what

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it is that you're passionate about

that you're gonna be speaking

171

about, and, and to make it clear.

172

Because if you can't make it what

you're talking about clear to a, to

173

a booker, to a consultant in the, in

the bureau, they're not gonna know

174

how to talk to you, talk to clients

about you in an effective way.

175

if, if we don't fully understand what

the message is, there, there's no way we

176

can actually start putting them forward.

177

get clear.

178

Don't be fuzzy

179

John: So that, so that makes it,

the bureau is probably not the

180

first step you take when you're

breaking into the speaking world.

181

There's a few things to figure out first.

182

I think that's really important

to, to recognize that there are-

183

there's a time that it's gonna

be right to join the bureau.

184

Now is…

185

I can't remember if this is when I

chatted with her on the show or, or

186

another chat with, with Maria, but, she

had indicated somewhere that probably

187

the speaker fees that make things

worthwhile for speaker bureaus to really

188

look at would be, like, somewhere in

the range of 8,000 plus per- for a gig.

189

Is that somewhere in the right ballpark

for what you're seeing as well?

190

Dominic Eldred-Earl: Not necessarily.

191

I mean, certainly that sort of

fee, yeah, very much like to

192

work within that sort of area.

193

The market at the moment is a

little bit more contracted, and it's

194

certainly very turbulent at the moment.

195

It, you know, we…

196

I've had several, and I know some of

my colleagues have had several things

197

where it's literally been all good,

all 100% going ahead until we've sent

198

them the form to sign, and then it's

like, "Oh no, sorry, we've canceled it,

199

we've postponed it, we've done this."

200

it's rough out there at the moment.

201

In terms of fees though, I mean, I

suppose a client fee anywhere from

202

2,000 pounds upwards can be worked with.

203

Obviously, at the 2,000 pound from

the client level, then the percentage

204

that the bureau will want of that is

gonna be higher than an 8,000 level.

205

Because, as I say, you know,

there is a minimum level that we

206

need to achieve in order to, to

cover costs to make it worthwhile.

207

So I, I would say if it, if the fees

are 2,000 plus, it's probably workable

208

depending on how much of that the, the

speaker actually wants to walk away with

209

John: Yeah.

210

Now, that, that's really helpful, and I

think that will give p- a lot of people

211

a much clearer understanding of, of where

speaker bureaus fit into the, into the

212

booking process for people, and where it

would be useful to work with you as well.

213

I do remember, back in my Speaker Lab

days when, being introduced to a US

214

bureau and, they did a presentation for

the whole team there and, and one of

215

the things they said with their bureau

was really they weren't so interested

216

in, in having people come to them

unless you already had a bit of a name.

217

Like you were already kind of…

218

There was some buzz around you.

219

There was, people act- actively

searching for you and wanting you.

220

Like if they'd had a, if they'd had

people calling them up and saying,

221

"Can you get us this speaker?"

222

That would be someone that they

would look to, to get on the books.

223

Now, I can see that, that, that's probably

a huge advantage, for getting into it,

224

but a lot of people would have to do a

fair bit of work to get to that point.

225

But d- do you see that still happening

in a lot, a lot in the bureau that

226

p- there's buzz around certain people

or topics, and when they come in

227

it, it makes it much, much easier to

get people, out there into the gigs?

228

Dominic Eldred-Earl: Absolutely.

229

Absolutely.

230

I mean, if you've ever watched Dragon's

Den or Shark Tank or anything like

231

that, the people who get investment

are those who already have proven that

232

they can do what they're talking about.

233

And it's, it's exactly the same thing

in the, in the speaker world, in the

234

speaker bureau world especially, is

that if you are in demand, then you

235

are more of a marketable commodity.

236

So I, I, I would say, you know, it's,

it's that kind of, Mary Poppins or if

237

you're more modern, Nanny McPhee kind

of situation whereby, you know, when,

238

when you want-- when speakers want a

bureau because they want to get more

239

speaker bookings, chances are the bureau

potentially doesn't want them so much

240

because they're not that well-known.

241

But then when you're a well-known

speaker and you no longer really need the

242

speaker bureaus, you know, that's when

the speaker bureaus are more interested

243

because, because you are more in demand.

244

there are very good reasons to

use a bureau, we can, we can

245

look at some of those if you like

246

John: Yeah, I would, I

would appreciate that.

247

Like, is it, you, you, you kind of

said, like, some of the sort of more

248

well-known people perhaps don't really

need a speaker bureau, but might they

249

still benefit from, from working with you?

250

Dominic Eldred-Earl: Totally.

251

Totally, totally.

252

And there's, there's, there are

a number of reasons for that.

253

One is the, especially in the larger

corporates, the, the buying and the

254

onboarding process for accounting can

be an absolute pain in the backside.

255

Chances are the speaker bureau may

already be an onboarded supplier

256

with the larger corporates, so it

just makes things so much easier.

257

The other thing is with speaker bureaus,

I think pretty much the majority of them

258

insist that they have the speaker fee from

the client before the event takes place.

259

Now, being a third party essentially

to the negotiations, the speaker

260

bureau actually has more leverage to

do that than the speaker, 'cause it's

261

very easy for, for the end client

to say to the speaker, "Oh, you

262

know, can-- we're tight on finances.

263

Can we pay you post-event?"

264

And that, that's always a, a little

bit sort of questionable, because

265

obviously once once you've been there,

once you've delivered the value, I

266

mean, obviously they'll appreciate the

value that you'll deliver 'cause you're

267

always gonna be an excellent speaker.

268

However, there, there is that potential

for them to either delay payment or

269

be re- yeah, be really slow, or in

the worst cases, not actually pay.

270

I can say in, in the 12 years that I have

been booking speakers, there has only

271

been one case of us not getting in the

full fee for the speaker, and even in

272

that case, we did get over half the fee.

273

and it was because the company, it was an

events company, they'd put on a ticketed

274

event, and essentially it had been a

last-minute rushed booking, so we'd kind

275

of gone, "Yeah, okay, if we have to."

276

And, yeah, they folded and

didn't pay all their bills.

277

But, there were, there were speakers who

were left with a, a lot more out of pocket

278

than the one that I was working for.

279

John: Oh, right.

280

Well, yeah, I, I guess those things

are gonna happen in business,

281

but, I mean, good that it's…

282

it seems that it's been very contained.

283

Like, you haven't had a lot of that, but

it's probably really stood out for you

284

where, on the time when it has happened.

285

hope not, not such a common thing, though.

286

I mean, I, I think it's one of the bits

of common advice that is nearly always

287

given to speakers of get paid upfront,

but like you said, there's maybe always

288

gonna be those exceptional or last-minute

situations where you make some, make some

289

exceptions and say, "All right, well, this

one time," and that could go either way.

290

So you never really want to be in

the position of chasing payments,

291

but, yeah, some- sometimes you…

292

it's unavoidable.

293

So, so is there a, is there perhaps

a sense of the speaker bureaus

294

are perhaps best suited for?

295

If you're not, like, big-name speaker,

is, like, what would still be, uh,

296

like, the value of that or what would

still be a good fit for a bureau?

297

Dominic Eldred-Earl:

In, in terms of, I think

298

who has a clear message which

is marketable and can show that

299

they have a clear market has

potential to work with a bureau.

300

I guess where working with somebody

like London Speaker Bureau especially

301

is useful is because we do have a very

global network of speaker consultants.

302

So if you're, if you're interested in

sort of branching out into more global

303

speaking, then a bureau can certainly

help to do that because obviously they

304

will have more knowledge about local

marketplaces than, than you might be

305

able to achieve yourself depending

on your sort of background and, and

306

knowledge of that sort of thing.

307

So I would say that was, that was another

reason to potentially look at a bureau.

308

John: Mm-hmm.

309

No, I th- I th- I think kind of.

310

It's, it's sort of like, well, what

perhaps sits as the best sort of type

311

of client for you other than the,

the, the big names, and I think that

312

pretty much gives an idea of that.

313

let me ask you this.

314

I'm, I'm, I'm curious just 'cause,

you know, back in, pandemic times

315

and all that when lockdowns and

things, we're doing lots of virtual.

316

Are you still seeing much demand

for virtual through the bureaus or,

317

or is it pretty much all in person?

318

Dominic Eldred-Earl: 95%

is in person again now.

319

However, what we are seeing a lot more

is that events are running hybrid.

320

So they will get the speaker in the

room, and you will address the audience

321

in the room, but at the same time, they

will be either recording it for people

322

to watch later, or they will be live

streaming it to people in other offices

323

or other locations around the world.

324

And that, you know, that's also a, a

cost saving for them in terms of not

325

having to get everybody into a location

and, and move people around the world

326

and all that sort of downtime for them.

327

So in some respects, it is, it is

important that speakers work not only

328

on their stage presence and their

ability to present and captivate people

329

within a room, but also to be aware

of the fact that if there is a camera,

330

if there is a remote audience, you do

need to give them some attention too.

331

So make sure that if you're in a room

where they're doing either filming

332

or hybrid, that you treat the camera

as another person, and that you do

333

take the effort to make eye contact

with the camera so that the people

334

who are there don't feel left out

335

John: Yeah.

336

Okay, good, good to know.

337

And, now he- here's a maybe a, an

interesting question 'cause I do sometimes

338

come across people who sort of think, they

can speak on anything and then they come

339

to want to work with someone like me and

say, "Oh, point me to where the money is.

340

Where should I go and speak?"

341

Which is like, oh no, I

don't like the sound of…

342

I don't like react very well

to that question in general.

343

But I think we probably all know

that there are hotter areas than

344

others and, and some areas that

maybe are or have gone a bit cold.

345

But what, what are you seeing as

perhaps the, the trends and the hot

346

areas and perhaps stuff that has cooled

off or maybe gone completely cold

347

in the speaking world at the moment?

348

Dominic Eldred-Earl: That

is another good question.

349

And the thing is, at the end of the

day, there is demand out there for all

350

topics, as you say, some more than others.

351

Certainly politics, geopolitics,

economics, and the state of the

352

world is something that people are

very interested in at the moment.

353

But at the other end of the scale,

there is a lot of interest in

354

wellbeing and mental health and, and

all those sorts of things as well.

355

I suppose sustainability and the

sort of more, shall we say, people

356

and planet-friendly ways of doing

things potentially has taken a bit

357

of a back seat with the, the current

governments that are out there.

358

However, it's, it is still a place

where people want to know more about

359

because it will come back around, and

the organizations who are in a position

360

to take advantage of it will do better.

361

Apart from anything else, it's

just the right thing to do,

362

especially if you've got children

or grandchildren, you know, we…

363

I, I think one of the biggest, potentially

one of the biggest mistakes that was,

364

has been made around climate change

is the labeling of save the planet.

365

It, it's got nothing to

do with saving the planet.

366

This, this ball of rock and gas that we

live on will continue on hurtling through

367

the universe, whether we're on it or not.

368

it has to do with, you know, saving

the, the people, saving humanity, which

369

is, something which needs a little

bit more focus, but that's, that's

370

an entirely different conversation.

371

But in…

372

I would say don't chase topics.

373

Absolutely don't chase topics.

374

Be aware of what is hot.

375

So yes, AI is a hot topic, and

it is gonna stay a hot topic.

376

However, what is more important is

to understand the implications of

377

AI on what is your core specialty.

378

So if you talk about leadership, if

you talk about wellbeing, if you talk

379

about communication, if you talk about

branding, those are your key topics.

380

Those are your focus areas.

381

That is where you are the expert.

382

Do not step out of your lane.

383

However, if you can say how AI is

having an influence on that sort of

384

thing, that is where the value lies.

385

So stay with your expert topic,

but understand how the outside

386

world sort of influences it

387

John: Yeah.

388

Just, I mean, th-this may be hopefully

is, is a quick sidebar, but in terms

389

of the, sort of expert positioning kind

of thing, what are some of the things

390

that make people an expert that other

than qualifications and degrees and

391

master's degrees and, that's b- being

known in certain, c- certain industries?

392

Are there other things that might

qualify people as experts as well?

393

Dominic Eldred-Earl: It really

has to do with how, how well

394

you're known for your topic

395

How, how visible you are

and how well you're known.

396

Because if you're not known for your

topic, then people aren't either gonna

397

request you or put you forward for it.

398

So it, it really is a matter of being

visible for what you want to talk about.

399

I think it's as simple as that really

400

John: Yeah.

401

So, so somebody who just regularly gets

up and speaks about a good topic and

402

starts to become known for that would

probably at some point start to be

403

considered an expert in that because

people have heard them speaking about it

404

Dominic Eldred-Earl: Absolutely.

405

And,

406

unfortunately, it, it is one of those

things, it's not necessarily the most

407

expert expert who gets booked the most

to talk about something because if

408

they're, as I say, if they're not visible,

then, you know, people don't know that

409

this is, is the person to put forward.

410

I, whenever I'm doing a proposal, I

always try and stick in a bit of a wild

411

card of somebody who I know will be able

to cover off on a topic that, that the

412

organization may well not have heard of.

413

John: Mm-hmm.

414

Dominic Eldred-Earl: So to…

415

I, I like to try and give sort

of new, new talent or different

416

talent, that step forward

417

John: W- what are, what are the visibility

signals that you're looking for?

418

Like what makes somebody visible, like

clearly visible in the marketplace?

419

Dominic Eldred-Earl: A lot of it

is LinkedIn presence at the moment,

420

and it's not just you post a lot.

421

You have to post with value, and there

has to be visible sort of interaction from

422

other people, not just other speakers.

423

Ideally, you know, you see…

424

What, what's great see is successful

posting of events that speakers have done,

425

and then especially if there are comments

below it from people who've been at the

426

event to say, "Oh yeah, this was great.

427

We really enjoyed it,"

and that sort of stuff.

428

That, that gives it a little bit of sort

of social proof around, you know, the

429

fact that they can actually do and deliver

430

John: Yeah.

431

So, so primarily LinkedIn is one of

the places that, that bureaus would

432

be looking, but they are looking for,

I guess, community and for people

433

beyond just your, your speaker network

to be interacting with your content

434

and, and seeing what you're doing

435

Dominic Eldred-Earl: Yes.

436

Yeah.

437

I mean, testimonials and, and

knowing from clients who we know

438

who they've had speak at events.

439

I mean, whenever I put forward a brief

for a, a speaker, I will always check with

440

the client as to what speakers they've

had previously, you know, who they had,

441

what they were like, what sort of things

they like and all that sort of stuff.

442

So it, it may well be that whilst

you might not be showing up on social

443

media or might not be on my particular

feed, that because I've spoken to

444

a client and they've, they've said,

"Oh yeah, we had this person last

445

year and they did a really good job.

446

You know, this is the type of thing

we like," that that will bring

447

someone to my attention as well.

448

So it's, it's always worth making sure you

leave with a, a very positive impression

449

and also going, going back to clients

and staying in touch with them as to…

450

A little, a little trick here is,

again, to build out your sort of

451

referral network in a way, I suppose.

452

So network with other speakers who speak

along a similar line to the way that

453

you speak, so that after an event or

when you're speaking to clients, you

454

can say, you know, "Here's suggestions

of other people who you might find

455

really, really good, really useful."

456

That's, that's handy to have in your back

pocket for either once you've done an

457

event with a client, you can refer them

someone for the next year, or if you're

458

not able to do a specific date, you

know, you have the option to refer them.

459

And that's another good one is if

you have a date that you cannot do,

460

and you have a bureau that you want

to build a relationship with, that

461

you maybe started building one with,

is to introduce them to the client.

462

Say, "Look, I can't do this date,

but this person who, who I work

463

with, who, who books me for events,

they've got access to a whole bunch

464

of other speakers that can help you."

465

And a consultant will really like

you for that because you know, if you

466

introduce them to a new client and

they get a booking, they are going to

467

remember you as, as somebody that they

wanna stick forward to other events.

468

'Cause there, there is a bit

of, you know, I'll pat your back

469

if you pat mine sort of thing

470

John: It's, it's not, it, it's not all

about what can you do for me, it should be

471

like how can we all help each other here?

472

And speakers refer other speakers

and, but is like referring

473

stuff to the bureaus as well.

474

It makes you very helpful,

and s- I, I can't…

475

I've probably lost tr- lost count

of how many times I've heard it

476

mentioned in the show that speaking

is a relationship business.

477

I, it myself countless times.

478

But it, this is your relationship with

the bureau, this is your relationships

479

with the clients, your relationships

with your, your peers in the industry.

480

There's all stuff that helps you

get more booked because if the

481

bureau, if, if a bureau likes you

and you have, and, and you look after

482

them, they're gonna look after you.

483

If a client likes you and, and

you're referring stuff to them,

484

they're gonna look after you.

485

I mean, this absolutely makes sense.

486

It's like this is how

good relationships work.

487

Give and take, helping each other

out and, and being good in tho- know,

488

being somebody who's valuable to know.

489

And, and I always think of, Dr.

490

Richard Wiseman's book, The

Luck Factor, and he talked

491

about what makes people lucky.

492

And he said the, the people who are

generally luckiest are, are like

493

nodes in, in sort of social networks.

494

They, they know people and they make the

effort to connect and make the effort

495

to stay in contact with people as well.

496

And so you know that it's like if

you need to know somebody, you,

497

you like to go through that person,

say, "Hey, do you know this?"

498

Or, "Can you connect me with this person?"

499

that makes you, let's say lucky,

but I mean lucky that you, luck

500

that you've created for developing

your future relationships.

501

So, so I, I, absolutely

it makes sense to me.

502

David Newman was on the show recently.

503

In fact, the episode's ju- just

come out and, I don't know if you

504

know David, but, one of the things

that he was saying was that the,

505

the end, content speaking is over.

506

Like, information content

speaking is, is over.

507

The, the age of the information speaker

is done and we've mo- we've moved on.

508

But do, do you still see those information

sort of based speakers on, on the market?

509

are they still getting some bookings?

510

Is that…

511

Would you agree that that's,

that age of speaking is done?

512

Dominic Eldred-Earl: in that

respect, you're talking about

513

people who can sort of delivering on

statistics and, and things which are

514

John: Yeah, people who are more sort

of talking on, on informational topics.

515

Yeah

516

Dominic Eldred-Earl: I would say not.

517

I would say that that's still very

valuable, especially if you're

518

working around economics and

geopolitics and that sort of thing.

519

However, I would agree insofar as

the, the way of speaking is changing.

520

So things need to be much more human.

521

They need to be much

more storytelling based.

522

They need to be much more emotionally

based, and they need to be more engaging.

523

So yeah, I mean, speak- speakers who

have slides full of text and all that

524

sort of stuff, I am less likely to

put them forward personally myself

525

because yes, there are, there are

situations where a graph is required.

526

There are situations

where data is required.

527

However, I'm-- I actually think more

and more now that having a lot of

528

textual content on the slide actually,

it actually shows a little bit of

529

laziness on the part of the speaker.

530

So

531

You sh- you should know your

presentation, you should know your

532

materials well enough that you

don't need that text on the slide.

533

And in order to engage and connect

the best with the audience,

534

you don't want them distracted.

535

And if you've got a lot of text and

data on your slide, they're gonna be

536

reading that and trying to figure that

out, and not listening to you properly.

537

So the, the best thing to do is

large full screen graphics which,

538

you know, get attention and provide

backup to what you're talking about.

539

But yeah, keep, keep the data off the

slide unless it is absolutely necessary

540

John: Hmm.

541

Do-- is there still perhaps an

industry expectation of having like

542

multimedia s- like slides and et

cetera involved in presentations?

543

Or i- is, is there, a, a, an element

to which you could just get up

544

and speak, have your microphone,

and that's, all you need really?

545

Dominic Eldred-Earl: Totally.

546

Totally.

547

It's, it's-- Slides are

just a supporting medium.

548

You know, it's, it's like a prop.

549

So only use it if you really need to.

550

If you can, if you can get up on

the stage and literally just have

551

a, a holding slide that has your

name on it or a plain background or,

552

you know, a, you know, picture of

something uplifting, I don't know.

553

What-whatever it is that sort

of speaks to what you're talking

554

about, and that's all you need.

555

You, you…

556

I mean, I know people who

use flip charts as a prop.

557

You know, people who, who

do use props as props.

558

So, you know, use tables, water

bottles, hat stands, whatever it is that

559

they need to get their point across.

560

So absolutely, you know, you don't

have to have a, a PowerPoint or

561

whatever other display medium you use.

562

It is, it is perfectly acceptable to

get up there and, and just be you.

563

The most important thing is can

you connect with the audience?

564

Can you deliver to the audience

value for them to be in the room?

565

Can you deliver to them a different

way of thinking, something that

566

they might want to get hold of,

something that might influence

567

their thoughts and their behaviors?

568

Because that's what, that's what

you're being paid for essentially,

569

is to take a room full of people,

to give them some ideas so that when

570

they leave that room, there will

be some sort of behavioral shift.

571

That's, that's usually the objective

of the person organizing the meeting

572

John: Yeah.

573

yeah, I think for the longest time

it was just like how much information

574

can we cram into people's heads?

575

And I think there are still people

who come into speaking thinking

576

that that's what it's all about.

577

It's like, "I'm just here to relay

information and give you as much

578

valuable information as I possibly can."

579

and that's not really what's

changing hearts, and minds,

580

and actions from, from those

581

Dominic Eldred-Earl: Sometime,

sometimes less is more.

582

You know, if you need to get across some

clear actionable messages and keep it, it

583

in a, in a way that people don't have so

much that they get overwhelmed with it.

584

You know, just keep it down to that two

or three key things, key changes, key

585

Yeah, key behavioral stuff that can

have an influence on people's lives.

586

Give them, give them, give them

just those one or two tips which

587

will make their lives better

588

John: Yeah.

589

H- here's something that our, our

listener might be curious about.

590

I- is there, is there opportunity

f- still for a speaking career

591

outside of the corporate sector or

in the terms of the UK and Europe?

592

Is it pretty much just like if you

want a career doing this, that's

593

where you need to be speaking?

594

Dominic Eldred-Earl: There, there is

certainly plenty of stuff outside of

595

the corporate environment to speak in.

596

It potentially does not pay as well.

597

I mean, certainly if you want the bigger

budgets, you are potentially looking

598

at the corporates, though having said

that, you know, some government advisors

599

and things also get very well paid.

600

So it, it depends.

601

I mean, schools is a, is a huge

marketplace, and yeah, they, they

602

might not have huge budgets to

pay for speakers, but they do have

603

some budgets to pay for speakers.

604

So it depends on your message and

how, how you want to get it out there

605

and who your audience is, you know.

606

Where do you want to have impact?

607

Where do you want to make a difference?

608

So yeah, I mean, you've

got schools, you've got…

609

You've even got festivals.

610

So it may…

611

There, there's so many wellbeing

and other types of festivals now

612

where they have speakers along to

talk about various different things.

613

You know, even Glastonbury has,

you know, talks and things.

614

So it m- it may be that if you want

to fill your summer with festivals

615

and, and doing all that sort of stuff,

that you could, you can get onto that

616

sort of circuit, and they'll usually

give you entry to the festival.

617

They might give you a, a small fee of

sort of £500 or something, I don't know.

618

But, yeah

619

John: paid to go to a festival, I think,

there's a lot of people who think,

620

"Oh, yeah, I like the sound of that."

621

yeah,

622

Dominic Eldred-Earl:

There's options out there.

623

John: great

624

Dominic Eldred-Earl: might, it may, it

may well be that, you know, you, you, you

625

want to travel to various places around

the globe, so you might be happy to do it

626

for expenses at various different things.

627

So

628

Make,

629

all comes down personal objectives, I

think, in that, in that sort of arena

630

John: Now y-you particularly have been

noted as being someone who's pretty good

631

at spotting upcoming talent and, the

speakers who are likely to do really well.

632

So I'm curious, what, what is it that

you either look for, or what are the

633

things that you, when you see them,

you're like, "Oh yeah, this, this

634

speaker's gonna do really well"?

635

Dominic Eldred-Earl: In some degrees

it comes down to gut instinct.

636

The…

637

I guess I go mostly off people who I just

seem to sort of connect with, because

638

as, you know, so much about

speaking is to do with connection.

639

It is to do with how well you can connect

to an audience, how well you can take

640

the audience on an emotional journey.

641

So if I come across people who I

understand what they're talking about,

642

they're clear on what they're talking

about, and I connect with them on

643

more than just a transactional level.

644

So I connect with them on a, you know,

a more sort of personal level and

645

understand more about them and their

life and how they deal with people.

646

Those are the people who I'm more

interested in because they are the

647

ones who I, I, I believe will be

able to connect to an audience better

648

John: Hmm.

649

That's good.

650

So there's a little bit of the maybe

you, you, you perhaps been around and

651

in the industry long enough to just

be able to sort of start instantly

652

sort of recognize the things that

stand out for people, but also you

653

definitely get that, that connection

thing and the personal connection

654

thing, is, is an important part too.

655

'Cause certainly there are speakers out

there who aren't so good at the personal

656

connection bit, and are, and are maybe

a bit self-centered and egotistic.

657

I've come across it now and again

658

Dominic Eldred-Earl: Absolutely.

659

I mean, the thing to remember is you are

not on that stage to tell your story.

660

You are not on that

stage to serve your ego.

661

I mean, that, that's part of the

bookability formula, and the, the E

662

is very much, you know, that takes

away from the value that you deliver.

663

You are there to serve

the people in the room.

664

You are there to give to the people

in the room something that will

665

change their lives, essentially.

666

So yeah, whilst you might have an

amazing story, if it's not relevant

667

and the people in the room can't see

how it connects to their lives, then,

668

you know, you It's, it's not the sort

of pe- person, not the sort of speaker

669

that I'm gonna wanna put on a stage

670

John: Yeah.

671

A- and you're, you're a

speaker yourself, right?

672

I mean, you speak and, and you

write books I've seen as well.

673

so what, what i- what are your,

what are your sort of topics?

674

What are, what are you out in the

world speaking about for our listeners?

675

Dominic Eldred-Earl: Yeah, I, I'm dip-

dipping my toe into that a little bit.

676

I've-- it's, I suppose the last five

years, six years, s- coming up six

677

years now, I suppose, I've been on

a, a bit of a journey myself in terms

678

of self-development and learning

about myself and, and the world

679

around me and that sort of stuff.

680

So the…

681

In terms of speaking, I, I do speak

around wellbeing and mental health a bit.

682

I've done a number of panels on that

through my sort of lived experience side

683

of things, and unrecognized and undealt

with trauma and how that actually affects

684

our lives and all that sort of stuff.

685

And how we can think our lives

are actually perfectly normal

686

until we suddenly realize

that no, they, they weren't.

687

Depends on your definition

of normal, I guess.

688

So yeah, I s- I speak around

that wellbeing side of stuff.

689

I also-- I've been volunteering on, the

Rebel Finance School for the last five,

690

six years, which is a great, great free

course which is available online to

691

help people to deal with money, money

sort of matters around, you know, how to

692

create a gap, how to create savings, how

to invest, so you can create yourself

693

a more financially secure future.

694

And it's all free.

695

There's no upselling

or anything like that.

696

But again, it's tied into that sort

of wellbeing side of stuff because

697

believe it or not, people are more

open to talk about sex and mental

698

health than they are about finances.

699

John: Yes.

700

I would say that's pretty much true.

701

Dominic Eldred-Earl: And yet finances

are such a cause of mental stress.

702

that's an important topic.

703

And the books, the books are centered

around helping people to get better

704

quality sleep because we've had this

thing going on for years and years

705

that, you know, get eight to nine

hours sleep a night and you'll be fine.

706

Actually, no.

707

You, you can get eight, nine, 10, 11

hours of sleep and still feel really kind

708

of messed up, and the reason for that

is you've not had good quality sleep.

709

So you've had good quantity

sleep, but not good quality.

710

And in order to get good quality sleep,

we need to allow our brains to decompress

711

because during the day we've got pings and

notifications and emails and phone calls

712

and all of this stimulus going on around

us which gets our brains into overload.

713

We're not long out of caves.

714

In terms of development, you know,

the world has moved way faster

715

than our, our physical being.

716

and with everything that's going

on, our brains go into this fight

717

and flight mode most of the time.

718

They're really stressed out most of the

time because if you were a caveman, you

719

used to come out your cave in the morning,

or cavewoman, caveperson, you'd come out,

720

you'd look around, you'd see the sunshine,

you'd, you'd think, "My, what a wonderful

721

day," and you'd be pretty chilled.

722

You'd know you've got to do some

foraging, so you go off and you do your

723

foraging, and at some point during your

foraging, you know, a, a lion might jump

724

out of the bush and come to attack you.

725

Now, there'd be one of two outcomes there.

726

One, you'd be dead, or two,

you'd have made it out alive.

727

And if you've made it out alive, the

lion would've gone off somewhere else,

728

and you could get down and go back to

your foraging and have a happy day.

729

So your nervous system, yeah, it would've

gone high up, fight and flight stuff.

730

You'd have survived it,

then it would down-regulate.

731

Then you would get to

return to homeostasis.

732

We don't get that in the

world we live in nowadays.

733

Everything is that lion attacking.

734

Your ping, a car tooting, you know,

down the road, you know, all these

735

sorts of things can trigger exactly

the same neurological response

736

as, as that lion would've done.

737

So yeah, the books are all around…

738

The, the audiobook is designed so that

you start it playing when you go to bed.

739

It helps you down-regulate.

740

It allows your brain to grab onto

something which is enough information to

741

keep it, the brain engaged, but not enough

information to sort of stimulate it.

742

So it allows all of those busy

thoughts to sort of file away, and

743

then it gives your brain a chance to

sort of recover during the night, and

744

you get that better quality sleep.

745

You down-regulate the nervous

system- also some more training

746

within the book 'cause you leave

it playing whilst you're sleeping.

747

So there, there's subliminal training

in there to help regulate the dopamine

748

system a bit better so that you maybe

move away from so much sort of social

749

media and pings and like hunting.

750

in theory, it also is designed to

help improve longer term focus.

751

So rather than looking for the quick

wins and all that sort of stuff,

752

the ability to do those repetitive

everyday tasks that we need to do in

753

order to achieve longer term goals

754

John: Yeah.

755

I like that.

756

I like that, like this can help ourselves

decompress with a bit of, audio to wind

757

down to and leave it playing to pro-

program our brains while we're sleeping.

758

It sounds good to me.

759

great.

760

I'm definitely glad we got onto that.

761

s- sleep is such an important

part of everything that often

762

gets overlooked as well.

763

Dominic, it's been an absolute

pleasure having you on the show today.

764

I, I learned stuff I didn't even expect

to learn, and, I think m- I have a

765

lot more insight into bureaus, and

I think our listener definitely does

766

as well, so I really appreciate that.

767

But for anyone who is perhaps wanting to

connect with you more, more personally,

768

or maybe wanting to think, I think

I'm ready for getting in touch with

769

bureau," what's the, what's the best

way for them to get in touch with

770

you and the London Speaker Bureau?

771

Dominic Eldred-Earl: Well, the best way

to get in touch with myself personally

772

would probably be through LinkedIn.

773

So if you just look, look me up on

LinkedIn as Dominic Eldred hyphen Earl,

774

that's E-L-D-R-E-D hyphen E-A-R-L.

775

There is only one of me.

776

I've managed to choose quite

a unique surname, so if you

777

John: yeah, it's definitely

more yin than mine is.

778

Dominic Eldred-Earl: it comes up

with me or my kids, so so yeah.

779

So yeah, find me on LinkedIn.

780

In terms of connecting with London Speaker

Bureau, if you've connected with me, then

781

potentially, you know, if I think it's

worth pursuing, we can take it from there.

782

Or if you go to the London Speaker

Bureau website, I believe somewhere

783

there is a, an apply to be a speaker.

784

But do be aware that we get thousands

of inquiries every single month, and

785

very, very few of them actually get

through to being listed on the database

786

Worth knowing, worth knowing.

787

Dawnette, thank you so much for your

time and everything you've shared today.

788

It's been really wonderful.

789

I, I wanted a, a thorough

episode on speaker bureaus, and

790

I got that and so much more.

791

I really appreciate it.

792

Thank you for coming on "The

Professional Speaking Show."

793

You're welcome.

794

It's been a pleasure

795

John: Well, I don't know about you,

but I'm certainly gonna be thinking

796

about how I approach bureaus very

differently in the future and

797

what they can and can't do for me.

798

I think that really does inform us

very well as to the right way to use

799

a speaker bureau and how you can,

even if you're fairly early on, still

800

leverage the bureaus and start working

on building those relationships.

801

But just understanding that it's not

gonna be the place to sort out all your

802

problems and get you all your bookings

if you're still early days or you

803

haven't got things figured out, or if

your positioning is not super clear.

804

So I have created a PDF document that

is, I should say AI has created it

805

really, but I've created a document for

you that has all the highlights, all

806

the key points of this episode because

I think it's well worth reviewing, and

807

you may not want to listen to the whole

50-minute episode every single time

808

you want to refresh yourself on this.

809

So do go and check that out.

810

It's free to download in the

show notes for this episode.

811

Now coming up very soon, I have my

interview with Owen Fitzpatrick.

812

If you don't know who Owen is,

he's definitely worth checking out.

813

He has a podcast called Inner Propaganda,

which is also the name of his new book.

814

if you're interested in psychology

and influence, areas that I'm very

815

fascinated with, which is why I've been

following him for such a long time,

816

that interview is coming up pretty soon.

817

I'm pretty sure I asked him questions

that he probably hasn't ever been asked

818

on a podcast interview before, but they're

gonna be very relevant answers to you.

819

That's coming up soon.

820

If you're not already subscribed

to the show, make sure you do.

821

Owen isn't the only amazing

guest that I've got coming up.

822

I'm lining up even more fantastic

guests for you as we go along.

823

Some of them you will have heard of,

some of them you might not have heard

824

of, but all of the information's gonna

be solid, as well as the opportunities

825

for me to get to share my insights and

expertise with you in alternate weeks.

826

if there is anyone you would

particularly like to see on the show,

827

or if you think you'd be a great

guest, do reach out and get in touch.

828

the best way to do that is to

connect with me on LinkedIn.

829

connect with me, send me a direct

message, and let me know you checked

830

out the show, and either who you'd

like to see on, or why you would

831

like to come on and be a guest, and

what you would like to talk about.

832

Do make sure you get that PDF of

highlights from this episode and

833

join us next time on Professional

Speaking But until then, go and

834

do something worth talking about.

835

See you next time