Ready to start earning more by making your photography clients happier than ever? Pat Miller brings in commercial and branding photography expert Jeff Carpenter for a revealing episode all about exceeding client expectations and securing repeat business.

Episode Highlights 🎤💡:

(04:02) - Understanding What Clients Actually Need

(10:46) - How Client Discovery Leads to Better Results

(20:32) - Handling Scope Creep Without Hurting the Relationship

Connect with Pat Miller ⬇

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Connect with Jeff Carpenter ⬇

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I'm Pat Miller and this is the Professional Photographer Podcast. Today's episode is going to make you money. Do you know why? Happy clients pay more. That's a scientific fact, I think. I haven't done the research, but we can just. You'll give me that, you'll grant me, right? Okay, good. Happier clients make you more money. So how do we make our clients happy? How do we exceed their expectations? That's what today's show is all about. Jeff Carpenter is our guest, and we're going to talk about how to go through client discovery, how to do what you need to do. So they're thrilled with the outcome, how to handle them when they are asking for too much and you got to push back a little bit, how to stay top of mind so whenever they need a photographer, they think of you. We want happy clients because we want big bucks. Of course, that's what we're doing on today's show. We'll talk to Jeff next. Jeff, welcome to the Professional Photographer podcast. How you doing today?

I'm doing well. How about yourself?

I'm doing great. Just got off a week long vacation hitting golf balls all over the state of Nebraska. It was, it was fantastic. But that's for another podcast. This podcast, it's all about you and professional photographers. And if someone hasn't met you yet, tell them who you are and what you do.

Yeah, thanks for having me. My name is Jeff Carpenter. I'm a commercial, portrait and branding photographer based just south of Nashville, Tennessee. So I live in a town called Franklin. So basically what commercial means, like at least how I define it is I work with businesses, I don't work with individuals a lot. I'm not doing family portraits, I'm not doing weddings. So I kind of work in the corporate market. It's a good town to do it in right now because we've got a lot of, a lot of corporate headquarters moving, moving to Nashville. But yeah, so basically I just kind of stick with, stick with working in the corporate world which is nice because I work the, the corporate hours. So I work 9 to 5 typically and off on the weekends. So, but yeah, so I, I typically do, I started out doing mostly portrait work. My company, Readylight Media has expanded into some video work, some, you know, doing, doing kind of a wider gamut of what I started doing. But you know, it's, it's. I at heart am a portrait photographer. So that's the very abridged version of what I do and who I am.

When you bring that passion for portrait photography to corporate work, do you think that shines through that you're not the type of photographer that shows up and just puts people on a treadmill, like you really care about getting each individual shot like a portrait photographer would?

Yeah, and I think there's two different, you know, dynamics there. So there's, there's the headshots that, where you actually, like, need to do it. Kind of more of a cattle call. And like that's, I prefer not to, I like to kind of spend some time with clients, but there's some, there's obviously some jobs that, that is a requirement, you know, just based on time constraints and anything like that. But to answer your question, yeah, I mean, I like to build relationships with clients and that and you're going to get great images and better images if you have a rapport with them versus just like showing up and clicking a button, essentially. So I like to have discovery meetings. I like to get to know them ahead of time, do the research on what their brand is, you know, because they typically don't know what it is, I mean, a lot of them don't know what they want, so they kind of lean on the creative to be like, oh, what should I do? Which is a tough spot to be in sometimes because, I mean, I don't work for their companies and I don't know what the vision of their company is, but kind of giving that creative insight, you know, I think does, does help a lot. And just kind of showing that you genuinely, like, care and want them. You're not just there for the paycheck, you know, making sure you're actually getting them images that, that they're going to like. Because I want them to be happy with the stuff that I create. I don't want it to just be, yeah, I did the job, onto the next one. You know, it's because if they're happy, they'll tell other people they're happy and then I stay busy. So.

And we get to dig in today about how you exceed expectations for your customers. I've heard you say that the job as a service provider is to pivot to what the client actually needs. So what do you mean by that, as a photographer?

Yeah, I mean, there's, there's a lot of ways you can approach working with a client. I mean, there's, there's the ones that, again, like I said that, that don't really know what they need, or there's the ones that say they're like, oh, I want this because such and such or so and so told me I needed it. And that goes back to kind of building that relationship with them and having that conversation ahead of time to get them a product or a photo or series of photos that is actually going to serve the purpose of their brand. Just getting them cool photos. It doesn't do anything for them. I mean, it might be cool to post on Instagram or on LinkedIn or whatever they want to do for that one photo, but at the end of the day, our job as photographers, or videographers for that matter, is to get them, you know, content that it's going to then sell a product or tell a story or in some way do something for their brand other than just having impactful imagery. I mean, impactful imagery doesn't necessarily correlate to sales, so. So really, it's just kind of almost getting in their head and coming alongside them as more of a partner than a service provider and just understanding what it is they need. If you don't have that conversation with them, then you're kind of going to go in blind. Inevitably, you're not going to probably. You might stumble into some good images that they like, but there's more opportunity for something to go wrong if you're not prepared and don't come alongside them. So in my experience, just, again, it always comes back to kind of building that relationship and understanding what it is they want and getting it to a point where you're creating something that's actually going to be useful for them.

I guess I never really thought about it. When you're serving one brand today and another brand tomorrow, one brand and the next one might look completely different. And you have to have a bunch of flexibility as an artist. Does that come to you naturally, or is that something you have to put a bunch of intentionality behind?

I think in that case, you kind of have to put the artist on the back burner a little bit. No artist wants to hear that. But at the end of the day, you have to give them what they want, what they need. And like I said, Client A might be right up my alley in a style that's something that's awesome and creative and gives me the leeway to be creative. Whereas Client B has a very structured set of image guidelines and rules that you need to abide by. And that kind of comes back to, you know, I'm assuming if you're listening to this podcast, you're probably affiliated or some way aware of what Professional Photographers America is, and the big thing that they do is. Is the education side. So really learning and understanding the fundamentals so you can kind of pivot and become a bit of that artistic chameleon, if you will, where you are able to then create what it is that that client needs, even if it's not something that you necessarily would want. Because there's plenty of stuff that I do that. That pays the bills that no one other than, like, the website that it lives on. Like, I don't post it on my portfolio. And it doesn't mean it's bad. It just isn't necessarily something that is. We all have an ideal client, right? We all have somebody that we like. A client that's like, I want to create images that look like this. Let's use, like, vans shoes as an example, right? So, like, they have a very specific style. So if you have a bunch of stuff in your portfolio that is all doctors in ORs, then vans are gonna be like, well, why would I hire them? They don't shoot that style. So you always want to kind of cater your portfolio to what it is that you want. But being able to create images that. That's, you know, it's gonna pay the bill. It's a job like, this is not. We don't just do this because we want to be a starving artist. We want to be able to create art but also get paid for it. So sometimes along the way, you have to do some jobs that are, we'll say, less fun, but it's a necessity, I think. But being able to create images and still making it enjoyable and fun, I mean, don't go into a job just because it's not what you want to shoot with a negative attitude, like, man, I don't want to do this. You can still make those jobs fun, and they might be open to you being like, oh, let's try this one thing, you know, so. But kind of coming back to just being able to, like you said, one. One client might be. This one client might be the complete other end of the spectrum. And being able to accommodate both of those comes back to having a skill set that allows you to. To get that job done. And, you know, knowing what the fundamentals of lighting are. No. Understanding all that is is going to make your job a lot easier because we can all accidentally take amazing images. But being able to replicate and recreate and. And. And get it done every single time with purpose, that's what's going to set you apart from, you know, the photographer down the street that just, like, bought an expensive lens and can put it at 1.4 at golden hour, you know, like, yeah, you can get great images, but you're very limited to your circumstances at that point. So being able to create great imagery anytime, especially in the corporate world, because you don't. You can't tell a client that's got 200 employees, well, let's do it this day, because that's when the light's going to be the best. Even if it's not convenient for anybody on your team, you need to be able to do it when they say, hey, we need to do it at noon on a Tuesday, no matter what. Even if it's, you know, a tornado outside, you need to be able to, you know, do do your job. So that's kind of where lighting comes in. And being able to get lighting that actually, you know, works no matter what the situation is. And no, like, that's. This is no shade to natural light photographers. I, like, I am not good at that. So that's just partially, I think, why I'm like, if I can just take complete control, that makes me happy. But yeah, it's. And I think that's, there's not a lot of corporate photographers that are strictly natural light photographers either. So that's kind of what I'm speaking specifically to. What I know. So don't come at me.

They had the pitchforks out. They were coming.

They're getting it. They're unlocking the cabinet comment section just blew up. Yeah.

All right. We want to get as much as we can from you about super serving and exceeding customer expectations. And you've mentioned the importance of client discovery. So walk us through how you discover what a client needs to have a job go well.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it all starts with a good funnel. So you have to, you have to kind of. I mean. Well, let's break it back even further. You need to be able to have, like, good images so they'll find you in the first place. Okay. Let's say we get past that, they find you, you've got them on the hook. I'll have a discovery meeting before they book me, you know, because that's, that's where once I get them in the room, essentially, even if it's on Zoom or something like that, once I get them in the room, like, my close rates like 90%. Right. So the only reason they don't is strictly budgetary at that point. Like in almost every single case that I've worked with. And even then I can work out packages that might fit them and we can get into. Don't just do it cheaper later. But, but, you know, I. Having a discovery meeting is that quintessential being like, it is the stepping stone of building that relationship. And, and they see that and I'm not like, hey, let's spend three hours doing pre-production. Assuming I've got the job already. I'm just going in there, I might be there just to answer some questions they might have because typically I'm working with somebody on the marketing department. It's not really always their call whether, you know, they might have to run it up the ladder a little bit. So I'm kind of expressing it in a way that is easy to digest. I have marketing packets basically that. That's kind of depending on what it is they want. I'm like, here's a packet that has just some case studies, has some pricing, has, you know, this, that, and the other. It's basically all of the information that they need. They don't really need to have a conversation with me, but it gives me the opportunity to kind of just explain. Yes, this is, this is kind of what package I would do if I were you. And I'm never suggesting the highest package because realistically I put the high package there as kind of a dangling fruit that isn't necessarily always tangible or necessary, but it makes the middle package, which is one I really want them to book, a lot more accessible and look better. So. But yeah, so. So you're kind of just nurturing them at that point. Even though at this point they haven't hired me, I'm showing the, like, I'm giving them the same amount of respect and, and time of day and everything that I would a client. And it's not just because I want them to be my client, but it's genuinely because I, even if they don't hire me, like, I want them to make the best decision for their company, and that might not always be me. So the kind of nurturing and discovery aspect of, of any clients I work with, it's. It's really just a get to know you. I mean, think of it like a date. I mean, you're literally dating your client. And then once they, you know, set the hook kind of thing, then it's. You get into a deeper relationship. Right. It's. It's very similar to just like dating somebody. So having that aspect and kind of mentality of it is, is, you know, it's. It's the exciting part. You know, it's like, oh, I could, you know, this could turn into something. But then you don't want to be complacent down the road either. So it's kind of, it's discovery, it's nurturing and it's, and it's, and it's down the road even after the job's done, checking in and, and I mean, I don't do this personally and I probably should, but I know people that send like thank you cards, like physical cards, and, and they like, there's so much to be said about that. Different, there's different ways to communicate down the road depending on your client. But I mean, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but again, it just, it's so much of that hinges on the relationship of you and your client and, and just kind of building that in a professional way. That's, that's going to benefit, you know, it's going to, I mean, I'm not trying to say it doesn't benefit me, it benefits me too, because that's what pays my bills.

Let's talk about packages for a second. Because if you have an inexperienced client and you're putting a package in front of them, can that overwhelm them? And when you see a client's eyes kind of glaze over, how do you swoop in and guide them to get what they need? Because you explained we've got the top package, which price anchors the middle package, and that all makes sense. But if you've got a more inexperienced buyer that doesn't know what they need and you put a package in front of them, does that guide them and give them the information they need? Or sometimes can that be overwhelming?

I find it to be the latter. Like, I mean, sorry, the former. I think I used to be so over accommodating where I wouldn't have packages and I'll be like, I'll build a package to whatever it is that you need. Problem is, as I mentioned before, most of the time they don't know what they need. So the package basically gives them a, oh, is this what I need? You know, and then it kind of, it just makes them understand a little more. I've my closure rate and just like booking rate has gone through the roof when I've now that I just send out a packet because it just, it gives a quantifiable number and that's really what, what my types of clients want. They just want a number they can approve or not. You know, it's, and then okay, I've got packages, but then there's add-ons and takeaways. And so basically they've got the base package, but now I'm still making the package as customizable as I did before, but now I'm giving them like a quantifiable option. So that's, that actually has made people less confused, I think, because it gives them. It's. Think of it like you're going to McDonald's, like, I'm not sitting here building my whole burger with the bun, the patty, the cheese and everything. Like it just comes prepackaged so I know what I'm getting. But let's say I don't want the onion, take the onion off. Same thing with, they don't want 20 images, they can take 10 off, you know, so it's kind of. It gives them the flexibility, but gives them the baseline of what it is that they, you know, that. So yeah, I guess to answer your question, I think it actually helps because it, it gives them. I think when you, when I gave them too many options, basically the sky is the limit. I'll do anything you want. A, it sounded desperate. B, it overwhelmed them because they're like, well, I just need like something I can go back to my boss with. You know what I mean? So that kind of shut the door on half the gigs because they, they're like, I don't know what I have approval for. I don't know what it is. We, I just need to like give them three options. You're one of the people I called, right? So, so having that, having the case study in the thing that are all different helps too, because that gives you a, hey, I've done this before. Here's some challenges we overcame and that might be similar to what they do. Maybe they hired somebody before they liked some of them, photographer ghosted them. Now they're trying to like complete the set and they need something. I've had jobs like that, so that might be in my case study where they're like, oh yeah, like, he can kind of like keep on brand with what we already have and get us, you know, get us the rest of the way kind of thing or, you know, anything like that. So I guess to answer your question, I go on tangents real bad. So sometimes you got to reel me in. It's the ADD that kind of just like.

It's fantastic, it's really helpful. One more question prior to going on the shoot. So you're talking to somebody and as you said, you've set the hook. They're in. They need to go back to their boss. But what about a contract? Do you, there are people watching the show that don't use contracts, no contract, any guidelines, how do you do it?

I have contracts. I'm not, I've never had to like take a contract and be like, see, it's in the contract kind of thing. The contract is just that extra level of a professionalism. Like if you're, if you want to work with high level clients, they're all going to use contracts. If you come in with, with no contract, also it sets the guidelines of what it is exactly you're getting. Even though you might have had a package. I've had people get the package. I've had people sign the contract and they're like, what do we get again? And I'm like, okay, like, here's that. I'm not going to say go look at the contract. You know, that just sounds rude. But contracts always. I'm, it's, it's just a level of like, I'm sorry, it left my brain. It's just like a level of protection for me because it's like, okay, like this is what we're doing. This is what's agreed on. It's signed, it's countersigned. We know what it is. They can always add on later. If they're like, hey, we actually don't want that. Like, you can amend that. But if you go in with just oh yeah, like let's shoot and I'll get you some images like that just sounds like the flakiest thing ever, you know what I mean? So it's like, as a client, I would be like, what am I getting myself into here? But if it's structured, you have basically a standard of this is what you paid for, this is what you're getting, this is what's been delivered. And obviously the contract lays out all of that. What do you get? How long does it take to get it? Where is it, you know, little. How, how will it be delivered? So all of that is laid out in a contract. And that's just. You don't, you can be, the contract can be as simple or as complicated as you want, but it is just, I think a higher paying client will always expect a contract. If you don't have one, they're going to be like, why did I hire this guy, right?

So for sure, and we want to super serve our clients. We want to make sure that they're thrilled with the results. But sometimes the client will keep on asking and asking and pushing and the scope starts creeping and creeping. And how do you tell a client no when they're asking you to do stuff that's out of scope of the contract or maybe you've learned the hard way that you shouldn't do it. So how do you handle telling a client no when you're trying to super serve and please them?

Yeah, absolutely. And that is a fine line, honestly, because you don't want to be overly stickler for the contract, right? Because then it seems like you're just money hungry. So you can obviously you have to tell like they know when they're trying to get more than they paid for. Right. Like that is not like a. Oh, well, I just thought, you know, but it's, I'm lenient to a degree if it's something where I know it's going to serve the client more and, and we need that extra half hour to get a shot. I'm not going to charge them for that. In my thing, it does say I have like a price point for extra hours build, but I might, what I'll do with that is I'll then send them another con, another invoice. That is zero balance. You and, and even if you discount, this is going to, you probably are about to ask this later, but let's say like discount, we all get asked for them, right? Let's say you, I'm not saying don't discount, but if you do, make sure that you invoice for the full amount with every line item you have and then discount on top of that. So that way when that person tells somebody else about you, you're not the guy that did it for the cheap price. You're the guy that gave them a discount and you have it in writing. But yeah, that's neither here nor there. But yeah, so you do. There's been times where you get taken advantage of, right? I mean there's spots where people are like, oh well, let's do this, let's do that. You know, can we, can we do that? And at a point then you just have to be like, well, we, I build you for this. We can talk about adding on. You know, it's never a, it's, I'm never going to do it and then just send them a bill later because that's unethical, I think. I'm not sure if it's technically, but I don't feel good about it. So, you know, so I'm going to, I'll say like, hey, like this, we've reached our like, billable hours. If you want to add more, we can talk about that. And I'll usually give them a little discount on that. I'll be like, I, I know this wasn't in your budget. Instead of X amount for this extra hour, I'll, I'll bill it for, for, for a lesser amount just to kind of. Because at the end of the day, like, I'm probably going to do it anyway if I can get a little, little something for it. That's, you know, it comes with making your clients happy without being taken advantage of. And, and you can spotted a mile away when someone's trying to, trying to get a little extra something and, and they know they're doing it. But yeah, like for headshots, it's a great example. I've got a very basic headshot package. It's like somebody comes to me, it's a 15-minute session. They get one image, it's made for like LinkedIn photos. You know, their boss said they needed a headshot, they come to me, it's real quick, boom, bing, bam, boom, they're out. Um, but they might have brought two jackets and they want, you know, they want to have two options. I'm not going to be like, oh, well, I mean, typically, you know, let's say I charge 75 bucks for one additional edit. I might say like, oh, you know, like normally it's 75, I'll do it for 50. That, that makes them happy. That feels like they're getting the deal. It's still super easy for me. Everybody wins, right? So I'm kind of doing like the flea market approach where I'm kind of, I'm kind of like negotiating with them on the spot just to kind of try and get that extra sale. Because I know, like, I'm still profiting on it, but it's something that they want or need but probably don't want to spend 75 bucks on, you know, so I'm just like, yeah, like, knock it off, you know, take 30% off, everybody's happy, you know. So that's one example of that where I might suggest the extra edit instead of them, you know, just because I know they want it, you know, and there's times where I'll be like, I'll do this one for full price, but I'll give you a third for free just because I want to. Because I genuinely, sometimes I'm like, I think this is the best one. But they don't pick it. But I'm Like I want that one for myself, for my portfolio. So I'm going to edit it anyway. So, then I'll give it. So then I'll give them that one. But it's a case by case basis. It's not a, this is exactly how I do it. This is exact, like, no, no deviation from that. Obviously. Yes, we've got the contract. The contract is there for a reason. But the constitution's there for a reason too. But they can make amendments to it. Right? So it's like you have this, this ability to change or kind of pull an audible if it, if it makes sense.

Let's talk marketing for a second. So how do you stay present and top of mind so your clients know who you are and remember your name?

Ah, good question. And I have a great story about how I wasn't top of mind and I stopped getting work. So. Excuse me. So I'm going to go back to the how I started in business. And then this will answer the question. I'll try and make it quick. It probably won't be. So I started out in basically event photography. My first ever gig was a craigslist response, like Craigslist ad I found. And it was for event photography. And it was like 50 bucks in free beer for like 12 hours. And at the time, somehow I thought that was a fantastic deal. Turns out that job got taken, but they needed a photo booth. So I was like, sure, I'll do that. That sounds great. I had no idea what it was, anything like that. But what it did was it got me in front of a lot of people, right? So, so they saw me taking the photos on, you know, just a gray backdrop probably, and with some props. And they're like, oh, do you do weddings? Do you do real estate? Do you do this, that and the other. And I would say yes to everything just because at that time I didn't know what I wanted to do. I was like, I've got a camera. It seems fun. Can I make a career out of it? And I, I, this is a very like unsexy photographer origin story, 'cause I didn't really know I wanted to be a photographer, so, I did that. But the kind of reoccurring thing was I was always out doing stuff and I was always out and around people. Fast forward ten such years later, I moved down to Franklin. So I moved from Nashville to Franklin, which is essentially, it's in the Nashville market, but it's also its own separate market. Right. So different clients down here. Different, you know, just different. Different way of doing things. And at that time I was, I had just been married. I kind of got a little complacent in the networking department, we'll say that. And I stopped going to networking events and I was like, oh, I'm just kind of doing the. At home, I've still had a bunch of referral stuff coming in. Then fast forward, you know, however many years later, and then covet hits, right? So then nobody's marketing and everybody's becoming a photographer. So, the market got a little saturated. I stopped. I, essentially my Nashville, like referrals dried up completely. I, like, I wasn't networking in Nashville. I wasn't really going to Nashville. I was doing everything down in Franklin. So I had built a little bit of a market down here. But Nashville is essentially completely dried up. And this is 100% self-inflicted. This isn't like a pity story or anything like that. It's just a, if you're not out and about and around people, then people don't know who you are and people will very quickly forget about you. Obviously you can, I get a lot of jobs through Google, and you know, all that stuff as well. But referrals have always been kind of my bread and butter because there's, it's a warm lead. It's already, People already like A, they're 80% of the way there to hiring me because their friend told me I was good at what I did and they take their word for it, right? So essentially, let's just say all my referrals dried up because I wasn't networking, I wasn't getting out. I became such a homebody partially due to COVID and I got it. It was just easy to be at home. I was like, oh cool, I'll be at home, do all that. You know, I don't have to be out and about. I was still working, I was still doing stuff. But yeah, that eventually dried up. And I'm like, man, why is no one hiring me? Why is there no work? And I was like, oh, because since I've been out in front of people, the market has doubled in the amount of photographers here. So I'm not saying that they're all of the same caliber as like me and some other photographers in this market. But like, they're there and they're still getting jobs. So. And I'm, and it's. I, I'm all about, the more the merrier. There's work for everybody. But I realized like, okay, I need to actually get out there and start like letting people know that I still exist essentially. So, so I joined the local chamber, which is a fantastic way to get out and, and, and just meet people honestly and meet people that are, that are the clients that I want because they're all business owners. So I, I don't. A lot of chambers probably do this. There's, there's something. Usually chambers will have something called like an ambassador program and their job or it's not really a job, it's just a. They're asked to go to all the ribbon cuttings of all of the things. So I started just bringing my camera and just taking photos of them cutting the ribbon and just giving them my card and be like, oh, hey, like if you need anything, that's that. So it was, it was a very easy and organic way to get out and meet businesses. Right. There's a lot of different ways to market. There's obviously social media is huge and now that Instagram's indexed on, on Google, that's even better. So YouTube, anything like that. My Instagram and social media presence is odd because it's very educational towards photographers and those aren't. They're not hiring me to take photos for them because they do it themselves. But it does set me at a, like if a client. The reason why I was always kind of okay with that in the first place was let's say a client. See, like it's between me and somebody else and they see I'm teaching somebody and the other one is learning. Not that that's bad. I'm sorry that like sounded so bad. Learning is fantastic. I love learning. Don't hear what I'm not saying. But basically giving the like, the like the look of authority of like, oh, he's teaching photographers how to do something, he must know what he's doing. So that's kind of why I kept that the way it is, because it's odd. My, my Instagram handle is Readylight Media, which is actually my business. But my other like photography workshop stuff is called next level Workshops. So it's a, in as far as marketing goes, that's terrible. But it gets the job done, you know, so it also kind of bridged the gap between the two. So. But yeah, so really marketing is just a matter of being present and being around and because. Or let's say you're marketing on Google Ads. Like if you don't pay for the Google Ads, people don't see them. So same thing. So just kind of finding ways to get out there. As long as people know you exist, you'll get jobs if you're good at what you do. And that's really all it is. It's a matter of just being top of mind, reminding people that you're there. And that comes back to the, like, reaching back out to clients later because they're busy. Their job is not to remember you. Like, you have to remind them that you're there. And I would say at least 50% of the time when I reach out to a former client and just be like, hey, how are things? And they'll be like, oh, I've been meaning to like, call you. We hired five new people, we need headshots. Like, that happens way more than you might think. And I would not have got that call had I not initiated that conversation. So some of it's. I wouldn't necessarily call that market. I guess it's very, very direct marketing. But, you know, it's just a matter of, again, coming back to that relationship with the client is, is that's marketing in a way. So just kind of reminding them that you're around. And then they'll be like, oh yeah, like, now that you're have this dialogue, let's just go ahead and book something. And that's like keeping reoccurring clients is. I'm not saying it has to be a retainer, but keeping clients, you know, on a reoccurring basis. You know, I've got a headshot. I was supposed to be today, but it poured down rain today. But like, so I have a headshot session tomorrow with a client. Every new hire, they call me. I'm not on retainer. I'm not contractually obligated to do it, but I have a good relationship with them. So it becomes a, they'll all, I mean, knock on wood, like, I hope they'll always call me, But I'm also, if I, if it's been a couple months, I'm not expecting them to hire somebody every month. But if it's been a few months, I might just be like, hey, you know, just checking in.

You know, it's just I'm still here. That's all that is. I'm not trying to get anything out of it. I'm not suggesting they hire me for something. I'm just checking in. And that alone is usually enough. Just again, stay top of mind.

We get a chance to experience your teaching at Imaging USA 2027. So what are you going to be presenting on?

A couple of things. So I know I mentioned a little bit about video earlier, so I'm a photographer at heart, right? So, but I do also, there is a overwhelming request for video lately, so, so I leaned into it. I actually love shooting video. It's a, it's a different, it's almost like left brain, right brain, you, you have to just think completely different. And I like the challenge, so it's kind of fun, but it can be very daunting. So one of the classes that I'm teaching is a pre-con on the Saturday before the show, like the day before. That's all about hybrid shooting. And, and it does not have to be difficult. You don't have to get a whole bunch of new gear. It's kind of using what you got to kind of just elevate your client's experience. And if they, if they want video, being able to offer that. So. Because sometimes, if they have to go to two different vendors, they're just going to find somebody that can do all of it. And it's, it's kind of the reality. Some are okay with just hiring all over the place, but if you can make it easy and just keep it all under one umbrella, then that's going to make them happier because that's one less thing they have to deal with, that's one less contract they have to deal with. One less, you know, credit card fee they have to deal with, you know, whatever it is, you know, so, so, so, you know, just, I'm going to give a very candid. Here is my experience with this and I am not a like cinematographer by any means, but I'm, I'm gonna do my darnest to, to show people how to take the, the scaries out of, out of video.

A welcome site between now and then. How can we stay in touch with you and, and what you're doing?

Yeah, Instagram. Readylight Media is my Instagram account or next levelworkshops.com is kind of my education website. It's fairly dormant because I'm relatively busy at the moment.

That's great.

But yeah, so. Oh, I'm doing another class at Imaging too. I'm actually doing. Oh yeah, you get, you know, double the fun. So I'm doing a, like a platform kind of stage class that's about, I don't, we don't have the title for it yet, I don't think, but it's basically lighting for fitness and athletes. Not necessarily media day days, but kind of just, it's going to be fun. Honestly, I love shooting fitness and and athletes and stuff like that. Although I don't do it a ton. I wish I did it more but but yeah, so we're going to be doing that, just kind of having some fun with, with shooting some, some some athletes and just getting some cool images and kind of some. That one's going to be more leaning on lighting for photography. So that's going to be more of a lighting technique class. And then yeah, the other one is the hybrid video. But yeah, Instagram, Readylight Media. That is probably the easiest way to get a hold of me. I also do one on one workshops, virtual or in person if anybody's ever interested in that. But yeah, Imaging is probably the next place most people will see me in person because I think that's the next conference I have that I will actually be at.

It's great. We look forward to running into you in person at Imaging USA 2027. A big thanks, Jeff, for coming on the show. I really appreciate.

Absolutely. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of the Professional Photographer Podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. You can let us know that you enjoyed it by giving it a thumbs up and for leaving a comment telling us what Jeff said that made you think a little bit differently and maybe something you're going to borrow from the episode inside your own business. Also, click subscribe. That way, every time we release an episode, it shows up inside your feed. One more thing before you go. If you're not yet a member of Professional Photographers of America, you're missing out. PPA offers incredible resources like equipment insurance, top notch education, and a supportive community of photographers ready to help you succeed. It's perfect for photographers who are serious about growing their business in a sustainable and profitable way at PPA. You belong here. Discover more about membership at ppa.com. That's PPA.com. I'm Pat Miller, founder of the Small Business Owners Community and the host of the show. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you right here next time. Take care.