In this episode, Lou Woods is joined by Will Martin – former teacher turned ADHD nutritionist – for a fascinating conversation about ADHD, nutrition, gut health and what it really means to support the whole person.

Drawing on both his professional knowledge and his own experiences of ADHD and autism, Will shares his journey to understanding his neurodivergence and explores the complex relationship between nutrition, the gut and the ADHD brain.

They explore the gut-brain connection, nutritional deficiencies, sugar and ADHD, supplementation, probiotics and the role nutrients such as omega-3, zinc and magnesium may play in supporting health and wellbeing. They also discuss ADHD medication, sensory struggles around food and why supporting ADHD often requires looking beyond one single intervention.

Whether you're navigating ADHD yourself, supporting a neurodivergent child, or simply curious about the relationship between food, gut health and the brain, this episode is packed with practical insights and thought-provoking conversations to help you better understand ADHD through a whole-body lens.

In this episode we discuss:

• Will's journey with ADHD and autism

• ADHD, genetics and neurodivergence

• The connection between ADHD, nutrition and gut health

• Sugar and ADHD

• Nutritional deficiencies and ADHD

• Omega-3, zinc and magnesium

• Supplements and probiotics

• ADHD medication and nutrition

• Sensory struggles around food

• Fibre, food diversity and supporting gut health

• Making realistic, gradual changes to your diet

• Finding neuroaffirming support and advocating for your needs

• Why ADHD is more than a behavioural issue

Connect with Will Martin

Website: willmartinnutrition.com

Instagram: @willmartinnutrition

Follow ADHD Interrupted

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TikTok – @adhd_interrupted

Free ADHD Resources – https://adhdinterrupted.gumroad.com/

Follow our host Lou Woods

Instagram – @itslouwoods

TikTok – @itslouwoods

Podcast Partner

This episode is proudly partnered with Proven Vitamins.

Get 30% off your order with code ADHD30

• Shop here: https://provenvitamins.co/

Hello and welcome to the ADHD Interrupted Podcast where we help you really understand what's going on in that neurosparkly brain with practical tools, expert insights and plenty of those.

Oh, now it all makes sense.

Moments that we all definitely need on this journey.

I'm so excited about today's guest.

Joining us today is former teacher and sense specialist, now ADHD nutritionist, Will Martin.

Will's work is invaluable in this space.

His fascinating background, his wealth of knowledge and his sheer passion for his mission stayed with me for long after this conversation.

I'm so glad I got to pick his brain on your behalf.

In this episode we get into ADHD beyond the behaviour, my favourite subject, the gut and brain connection, ADHD nutrition regulation and why supporting an ADHD child means looking at the whole picture.

Oh, and can a good probiotic work as well as Ritalin?

Let's find out quick ADHD hack before we start.

If you're always forgetting to take your vitamins, make them so delicious that the only problem is perhaps taking too many.

Huge thank you to our sponsors proven Vitamins, for believing in our mission and helping us support you.

Welcome, Will Martin to the ADHD Interrupted Podcast.

I'm so excited to have you on.

I've really been looking forward to this.

Thank you for having me.

When did you discover you were neurodivergent and was there any pivotal or light bulb moments for you?

Yeah, I think about a lot, really.

I think it started for me when I was at school.

I found school really hard.

Everything felt a challenge, particularly in terms of the academics, the sporting side of things.

I thrived and found really easy.

I could kind of pick up different types of sports, which is kind of the case for many families of support.

There's usually an outlet, whether that is an academic subject or whatever it may be.

They're really strong at a particular subject.

But for me, I found, yeah, lots of the academics really tricky and I just thought that was something I had to work through.

So that's sort of where it started.

And then I kind of developed into like low self confidence, you know, and really kind of overthinking things and not wanting to read in front of the class.

Kind of fear for mispronouncing words.

The disconnect between having thoughts in your brain and then being able to say it in a fluent way has always been a big trigger for me.

Even now I have to really cautiously think it's got better over time.

But that's sort of embedded from that school experience, I suppose.

And then I, I sort of understand, I understood why that was.

When I went to university I realized that I was, I was diagnosed dyslexic, which was useful.

I got extra time, I got support and that was, that was amazing.

But still it didn't, it didn't answer the questions or things I was looking for, searching for.

I still, my 20s were a bit of a car crash in terms of like mental health, spirals of depression, anxiety, kind of just feeling really all over the shop.

And I was like, surely this isn't just down to dyslexia or just down to this one thing.

So I started to explore it a little bit more and I think one of the clues is I was always reading self help books, always trying to find like what's the optimal way to do things like give me some help please.

And then there was.

So I knew I was dyslexic and then there was running.

It ran through my family and I realized that probably two, three years ago and then that's when I started to explore a little bit more and then I got diagnosed.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And you read, yeah, exactly.

You read the books and you're like yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, that's me, that's me, that's me.

And obviously, yeah, I realized the genetically which will I'm sure we'll discuss later.

And then yeah, I went through the diagnostic process and yeah, I was diagnosed ADHD and autistic and at that point everything, I looked back through a completely different lens and everything started to make so much more sense.

How was that journey for you when getting diagnosed?

Because a lot of people, it's not, it's not big relief that people think it's going to be, is it?

It can be quite confronting and qu.

Quite difficult to get through sometimes.

Yeah, absolutely.

And everybody's journey is completely individualized.

It's completely different.

But yeah, you're right, there's almost different stages, isn't there?

There's like firstly I suppose sometimes the shock or you know, I'd never actually thought could it be autism as well?

I think, I think you know, from a naive point of view, like my understanding of it, you know, even you know, as a, as an ex teacher as well of ADHD and autism was still, you know, through no fault.

My own, just through the, the awareness was, was lacking and it was through that journey I really actually understood like, okay, this is what this means.

This is, this is why I experienced this in a certain way.

This is why I've had potentially this has happened in my life.

In a certain way.

And you.

You're not trying to, like, kind of find, I suppose, like the.

The answer to all of these things.

It's.

It's more like you just have more compassion.

That's the biggest thing I've learned through all of this.

So, yeah, you go through many different stages.

Yeah, for sure, because I always related to grief.

A lot of people do.

So grief and relief, isn't it?

And the stages of grief, you have, like, shock first, don't you?

And then it's denial.

I know some people that I've spoke to, they've.

They've questioned themselves and thought they've gaslighted their doctor.

Yeah.

And then it's like anger.

I know I felt angry with the system and things.

Not now, but yeah, you just go through all those stages.

But, you know, at least with this kind of grief, there is relief at the end.

You say about being a teacher.

So would you say, like, in that system itself there was a lack of awareness?

I think it really depends upon the school and the experience.

There's some amazing teachers out there and some amazing leaders and some amazing schools do some amazing things.

This isn't about going on teachers, it's about kind of an awareness and an understanding of it.

I knew I had dyslexia and I knew I was sort of neurodiverse.

I knew kind of ways in which to support children.

But it was just almost like.

You're almost giving, like this impossible task.

Right.

To help, you know, a class of 30 children.

Yeah.

With all these different individual needs, yet you're trying to push through a curriculum which fits probably for about 10 of those children in that class.

And in your heart, you know it's wrong.

Like, you know, at the start I was in it, really kind of energized by it all, really excited.

And yeah, like, I was working in a primary school and you made a real difference.

But ultimately there was so many things I wanted to do.

But you were just kind of going up against the system, which at the current moment in time still is just not in a position in which it supports all learners.

It was hard at times, for sure.

Yeah.

And I think teachers are amazing.

But ultimately, I suppose the structure and the confinement which they've got to work within is just incredibly challenging.

So do you think the ADHD medical model is broken and what do you think needs to change?

If it's not broken, it's very close to breaking.

And again, it's like the education system, it's no fault of the people in it or you know, the people who have dedicated that, you know, their careers to it.

I think it's just, it's just so unbelievably overwhelmed.

And if something's so unbelievably overwhelmed, how can it cope and how can it ultimately serve what it needs to serve in terms of.

Yeah, if we're looking at the medical model in terms of ADHD and autism, because ultimately, you know, the story I've heard from many people who I support, whether they've got an ADHD diagnosis or not, ones who are waiting the waiting list as you sure you'll know that, you know, can be years and years and years, years long like.

And the support, they need it now.

And then those who have been diagnosed, usually the next steps are, you've been diagnosed, here's your report.

We can offer medication.

Like that's sort of the conversation sort of finishes there.

And what I would like to see and it is happening in certain pockets.

But again it's, you know, these things take time to roll out and I really hope it does because it's obviously it's about awareness and about funding and about support.

But ultimately we need a more of a whole body approach.

You know, ones which looks at nutrition, ones that looks at lifestyle, looks at genetics, looks at supporting the nervous system, looks at the body as a whole.

You know, that real sort of whole body approach and then, you know, use medication where helpful and that medication is absolutely vital.

You know, I'm, I'm completely here for medication, but it's.

Are there any other things we can look to question during that time?

Like can we look at, looking at, can we support the medication effectiveness?

Can we reduce the side effects?

Are there other things we can look at maybe downstream in the body first before maybe opting onto that?

Yeah, I listened to recently and they're saying the western world is like the only place in the world that just goes straight to medication.

Like places like in Asia and things, they're very much more holistic and they'll try all the offer other things that aren't just medication.

Yeah, absolutely.

There's different medical models around the world, I think.

Yeah, it's really interesting, this conversation because it's, it can be so, it can be so triggering for lots of different people in terms of.

It's almost like it's not going against the medical model.

It's like, how can we use the medical model we've got and look at other things which can help potentially optimize that medication, for example, or potentially, you know, that might not be an option which we need right now for some people, you know, so it's about, I suppose, asking various questions like am I sensitive to certain foods?

Am I kind of, you know, do I feel discomfort after certain foods?

Am I experiencing digestive issues?

Like do I kind of experience different sensitivities in different environments?

Am I eating enough protein to support the production of my neurotransmitters, you know, dopamine, serotonin, melatonin, which I'm sure we'll talk about.

What's my sleep like?

All of these things can really have like a, an overall sort of effect.

And again, everyone's individualized.

It's not.

There's not.

Yeah, exactly.

There's not one solution, but I think it's very much like a neuroaffirming approach.

Looking at the individual in front of you and having this time in order to do that is really important.

Ultimately, practitioners within the model, I think are constricted and don't necessarily have that time to be with that person and really sort of hold them through that and explore the different options.

Yeah, it's such a shame, isn't it?

I think there needs to be so much more education around food.

Do they do much education in food at schools now?

Do you know?

I think they do, they do some.

But ultimately, yeah.

The level of which they could go down.

It always could be more.

I think it's just as well because like obviously the plant based movement and gluten free and whatever else, like everyone's got their own kind of version of nutrition.

Yes.

Yeah, I love it.

I love nutrition.

I went down that rabbit hole years ago before I was diagnosed and like you, I was buying all these self help books and I was just trying all these things to kind of fix something that I thought was broken.

You talk a lot about nutritional imbalances, genetic influences and environmental issues.

So how can they heavily contribute to the expression of adhd?

Yeah, there's a lot to unpack them.

I think it's, it's important to go through maybe.

Yeah, each one of those.

Yeah.

And how do people identify what's affecting them as well?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

I think if we look at, I suppose genetics as a starting point, ADHD is genetic as a genetic link.

It's a neurodevelopmental genetic.

I don't know the word disorder, but presentation, should we call it?

Yeah, which means.

Yes, the genes are fixed, like that's your set, I suppose code, if you want to call it.

But ultimately the way in which they are expressed can be altered.

So if you think of it in terms of, you know, the genes are like light switches, but what's turning them on or off is kind of what's the environment in which they're based in?

What are you, what's your sleep like, what's your stress levels like, what food are you putting in your body?

What's your kind of, you know, exposure to maybe certain toxins and all.

Everything like that's under the realm of, I suppose, called like epigenetics.

Right.

So, yes, genes are fixed, but the ability in which they can be turned on or off can be changed via all of those different things.

Yeah, it's really interesting.

I mean, that was.

That would be.

This would be one of the things I would put in early in terms of, through the ADHD process, through diagnosis and then next steps.

Right, let's map out your genetic code.

Not the whole of it, but like specific pathways are really useful and I'll go into those in a moment.

But ultimately, what's that looking like?

Okay, right.

You have a low dopamine profile.

You have a high dopamine profile.

You've got certain tendencies to break down B6 quicker, 30% than other people.

Therefore we could look to put that in, you know, that could help you in terms of maybe making sure dopamine is around for longer.

So it's really interesting in terms of what the genetics can actually do when you look at those, and this is something I use a lot with the clients that I support, we look at genetic testing and it's relatively cheap.

It can be done very simply with a cheek swab.

So it's not that non invasive because I know some tests can be quite invasive and quite hard, particularly for children as well.

Well, but the one I look at is this nervous system pathway.

So, for example, if we take dopamine, which is a word used a lot in the ADHD community, and rightfully so, and it's for that is that neurotransmitter, which is a signaling chemical for mood, memory and motivation.

Now, there are sort of four different areas within that genetic profile which is useful to know.

First is the actual production of dopamine.

So are we getting in the raw materials to produce enough of it?

So dopamine is made from tyrosine, which is an amino acid, which is a protein.

So are we getting in enough protein?

And then there are the CO factors in order to make it into L dopa, then to finally get into dopamine, such as B6, zinc, magnesium, iron.

So all of those are really important to manufacture this chemical in the first place.

So if we're getting that right, there's also other parts we need to look at.

We also need to look at the receptors.

So the specific genes for.

Okay, we can make it, but is the body actually like sensing it?

The other thing is looking at the reuptake of it.

So once we've made it and we've sensed it, it then kind of goes into this gap within the neurons and this is our ability to feel it.

Are we actually feeling it for long enough?

Is it being whipped away really quickly?

So therefore we've made it, we've sensed it, but actually it's gone.

We need more of it.

That's why some people like dopamine seeking in terms of that low dopamine profile, in terms of how that links to addictions or certain, lots of other things around sort of having that dopamine fix.

It's really important, like why some people are really sort of hyperactive or can't focus, focus on tasks, for example, and all those other, I suppose, downstream traits of adhd.

But equally, when we know this, we can look at what things help, particularly those reuptake transporter genes.

This is where certain stimulants such as Ritalin works on these specific genes.

It's called the DAT1 gene, actually, if we can.

In some cases, giving a high dose of zinc can be as effective or kind of as supportive.

You know, it's worth trying this first in terms of the same, the same mechanism as those specific stimulants.

So I think knowing that pathway is really useful.

But yeah, I mean, it, it can be an incredible thing to explore in terms of your genetic code.

And how would you say the severity of your ADHD then, or your neurodivergence, can that be changed by your environment?

So if you was diagnosed severe adhd, for example, changing these things, can that bring that down?

Yes, I've seen cases where it does and it's happened quickly, but I've actually seen cases in which it takes a little bit longer, you know, so I think it, it really depends on the individual.

It really, you know, and everyone is so individualized.

Like, like we were saying at start, like sometimes I'm having, you know, I'm really struggling with, I don't know, because I'm, I'm both ADHD and autistic.

Sometimes I feel like I'm having like a real ADHD day or week or month, and then it might be going into like the complete flip to that, which is that the autism side, and then You've equally got in ADHD itself.

Like you might be a hyperactive profile or imitative or both, or you might, you know, you might have somewhere you are.

You are one, but actually thinking you are a bit of push and pull on both another.

So I think it really depends, and particularly with, you know, women as well, in terms of.

This doesn't get talked about nowhere nearly enough in terms of the cycle as well, how that massively affects hormones and how that massively affects women and how gaslit they get when they go to potential gps.

It's just a whole other story which doesn't get talked about enough.

I think it.

It really depends on the individual.

But yeah, there is.

There's so much scope to trial these things.

Yeah, it's like that saying, is it once you've met someone with adhd, you've met one person with adhd.

Yeah, yeah.

We're siblings who are not twins.

Yeah.

It's really, really interesting.

It's definitely important to remember and I think it gets.

It changes with age as well.

I don't know if that's an environmental thing.

I think for me it probably was, but definitely changes with age, especially with women, because obviously you get the perimenopause and things like that.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

And, yeah, if we talk about it in suppose in terms of like, the environment, in terms of like the physical environment, you know, I. I've noticed in terms of places I've lived and the more I understand and the more things that I know are like, that I'm doing which are useful for myself, such as getting out in the morning, going for a walk, getting some sunlight, you know, going for a walk, doing some stretching, getting in the sauna, just doing those.

And that might not work for.

And it is completely individualizing, you know, and those things as well, you know, are separate for.

Not separate, but can be tailored particularly for men and women as well.

So it's important to know.

But I think it's just about trialing things and exploring things because what will work for me, you know, what for you?

So I'm very cautious of that when I'm helping people.

You know, like, I. I never say I've got the answers.

I've got things which have helped people in the past or.

Or like a general understanding of what, you know, might be going on a little bit deeper.

But ultimately it's.

Yeah, it's about supporting someone through that, that process.

Encourage people to do movement.

It's movement for me, something like, I've never been a gym bunny, but I've had to force myself to do it.

And the results for movement, whether that's like a two mile run or a six carat, anything could be, it can be very small.

But my focus and my symptoms are just so much better.

But then I know for a lot of people that feels a bit overwhelming.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

And it seems like you've got into like a habit of doing that or you've seen the benefit of.

Yeah.

How that helped.

Yeah.

And how that helps you.

I'd always, with any change I'd say start really slow because we can have so much information and then it's like some leavely overwhelming and then ultimately we feel shame and guilt and we spar over because we haven't been able to achieve anything we, we might have said we wanted to do and we, you know, and that is a cycle which is played out over and over and over again.

But I feel like once you maybe understand the reasons why and then you've potentially, you know, doing it through maybe yourself or supporting it through somebody else, just start to start uber slow.

And again, movement doesn't mean necessarily running.

It could, it could literally be right, I'm just going to sit here, watch TV and try and touch my toes.

Like that could be your starting point, you know, like it could be completely stacked with something else which you know is regulating for you.

Like it could be thinking goes things, movement.

Yeah, I've got to go get some gym clothes and go to the gym and yeah, this stuff.

But yeah, it can be like you say just start.

I love that.

Slow and low by the way.

I'm taking that.

Yeah, yeah, a good approach.

So probiotics work as well as Ritalin.

Can you talk us through that?

Yeah, so I suppose there is, there's always loads of noise, isn't there?

On social media and particularly within this field and the scientific literature that's coming out.

Yes, I talked about this the other day and on, I suppose on the face of it it does sound pretty strong.

Which it, I suppose that that particular article, it does grab, you know, your attention but I think that the point in which they're saying is, is they had two different groups.

They had one group which was on a like a nutrition plan with probiotic and then they had another one which was on the same sort of like just a standard nutritional plan but with a stimulant medication.

And they found obviously this is one specific group and you can critique, you know, studies, you know, as far as you want to go to.

But what they found in this One is that they.

Both groups had the same effect on mood, memory, motivation, emotional regulation.

So some ADHD traits.

Now, that's to say that I suppose that there is.

There is science there to support, you know, the nutritional things that I help, you know, people with help, you know, in terms of looking at probiotics, in terms of supporting their gut health.

So I think.

And again, that might not work for anyone.

And you want to be really careful in terms of putting their probiotics because there's certain ways in which you want to do it.

Specific strains, depending upon if you know, more information about that genetic code can really help.

So I suppose, yeah, again, it's just another tool which can be used, used if appropriate, in a really good way.

You know, particularly looking at the gut and how that links with the brain and that ecosystem which it is really, you know, for.

You know, we.

We know our gut is our second brain, and rightly so, because it does so many things.

If it's working optimally to really help us, particularly with adhd, in terms of regulating mood, regulating attention, it really helps to produce those neurotransmitters which we discussed earlier.

Yeah.

And our immune system as well.

Yeah.

Is it 90% of our serotonin is in our brain.

Yeah.

Produced within our gut.

Yeah, exactly.

In our gut.

Yeah.

But no, you're right about that.

That is a perfect.

Because it does directly link to our brain via the vagus nerve, which is the Latin for the wandering earth.

You know, it connects directly to the brain.

So if our gut is in a state of producing, you know, if we talk about serotonin in a way in which it's optimal, and it will do that.

It will get.

It can help and move through the body and really help, you know, with sleep and all of those different things and other particular bacteria as well.

So you've got Lactobacillus, which is a specific strain.

You can get specific supplements which are specific bacterial strains.

So you can go into so much detail depending upon what, I suppose, what your.

What your makeup is and what your.

What you're struggling with at the moment and what makes you.

You.

What makes your neurobiology, you.

You know, and then you can really target that, because if your gut is out of balance and you're not producing certain neurotransmitters, such as gaba, which is really calming, and you can notice that through certain tests or potentially dopamine as well, which is through a specific bacteria called actually share it, you can really look at it.

And also it's there to Absorb those.

All those.

All.

All that food we've been consuming.

So ultimately you can have the best diet in the world, but if the gut is in a space of kind of not being able to take that in, absorb it and use it, you know, it's.

It's going to be a struggle.

But there are ways in which.

If.

How would you then support a gut which is out of balance?

But there are ways in which to do that through certain liposomal supplements, just to get that process going.

The gut is just such a massive piece of the puzzle, which you say.

It's the most important.

Yeah, I think it's one of the most important.

I think gut health, again, has exploded over social media over the last number of years.

Rightfully so.

I think it is a big part of the picture because I suppose that is where we.

We, you know, we take in and absorb all of our foods.

Yeah, I was.

I was drawn to that quote because Tim Spector said with.

You could replace SRI with a really good probiotic, again, depending on the person.

Yeah.

You know, just for its properties in making you feel better and feel good about yourself.

So.

Yeah, really, really interesting.

And I think quickly, in terms of ssri, again, linked to depression, and again, there's so many comorbidities that aren't there in terms of ADHD and mental health.

Like, that's, I suppose, how I got into where I am now in terms of my understanding what I do was probably through that.

Yeah.

That mental health loop and just how debilitating you can feel through, I suppose, depression and anxiety and.

Yeah, I suppose on the one hand, like, there is science out there and there is an opinion in which, that if you heal the gut, you can heal the gut's ability to produce serotonin and therefore might not be so reliant on SSRIs.

That is an argument.

And in some cases, people.

That does work.

I think it's just.

Yeah, if it works to you, then great.

But equally, let's not bash SSRIs, which can be an.

Can be Nick, I like.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, yeah, I think it's a.

It's.

Yeah, it's a really interesting discussion.

Yeah, it's worth a go, for sure.

Yeah.

And it definitely works for some people, but equally, you know, it might not be that and we might need to look somewhere else, you know, because the body is.

Yes, the gut's a part of it, but there are so many parts of it.

Yeah.

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Now back to the episode.

So, yeast overgrowth.

You've spoken about Candida.

Did I pronounce that right?

Yeah, that's right, yeah.

Candida is a gut intensifying ADHD symptoms.

What exactly is that?

And does it affect adults too?

Yes.

So Candida is a yeast.

Now, within the gut, it's a organ which has lots of different microorganisms.

So little small, kind of, it has bacteria, it might have parasites which shouldn't be really in there.

And it also can have yeast.

Now, Candida in the right amounts is useful, but it can overgrow and then start to produce neurotoxins, which can increase our inflammatory load.

And obviously we know the gut and the brain is connected and that can really cause, you know, agitation, emotional dysregulation.

I really see this in.

Again, yeah.

Answering your question, it can happen in children.

Yes.

And it can also happen in adults.

So it's about looking at the amount of it.

So if it is overgrown, it can, you know, disrupt those pathways which we looked at and discussed earlier.

So I think it's.

It again is another piece of the puzzle.

And I have helped many families and many children who or both their children and or one have got Candida overgrowth and how you can help kind of reduce that back into, I suppose normal levels can have a massive, massive effects because it can amplify symptoms such as struggling, go to sleep or being really hyperactive or really restless or very quick to rage, is a massive one just out of nowhere what causes it.

So, yeah, so.

So it feeds off sugar.

So if you're eating it, which is again, is really.

Is really is useful to know.

But again, how.

Okay, the reality is there's lots of, you know, children and, you know, like our safe foods or adults like our safe foods and some of them are highly processed, you know, so how do you go about doing that?

So again, it's about understanding, but it's not saying, right, let's completely cut out sugar.

That's such a hard thing to do, you know.

So I think it's about looking at what things can we add in, what things can we swap, which I'm so care, like, cautious of in the advice I give, because, particularly as we talked about before, you know, ADHD brains can be all or nothing.

It's like, right, this is the plan I need to cut out X, Y and Z.

It just doesn't.

I just, I, I never deliver plans like that because it's, it can just go the opposite way because again, you feel that shame, that guilt of not being able to.

I wasn't able to do that.

But actually it's.

Look at the level of the biology, like, look what's going on deeper, I would say.

What else can we add in?

Or when we are having sugar, what can we pair it with?

So, for example, if we're having sugar, can we pair it with some protein?

Can we pair it with some healthy fats that will ultimately reduce?

I suppose.

Well, there's one thing here in terms of the blood sugar spiking effect, which I know is talked about a lot in lots of different ways, but if we're just purely looking at the effects of sugar, I think adding in protein and adding in fiber and adding in healthy fats can be a really useful way to help with that.

It's sometimes maybe notice when that time is happening.

So when are, you know, when are you grabbing for sugar?

Is it, is it a hunger or is it that you're looking for a stimulation and that, that, therefore that's become a habit?

You know, that could be a, you know, sugar is very highly addictive and it gives that dopamine hit.

Right.

And if we, sometimes we have a low dopamine profile, is that why we're going for that, for example?

You know, so I think definitely the dope mean.

Yeah.

And it's, it's really, you know, and it's, it's, it's just something to be aware of.

But it's like, okay, can we say, I don't know, can we this week, for example, look to still maybe have that stack?

But equally, what can we add in with that?

So it's just the first step of just us recognizing it.

Again, these things take time.

I think it's just, you know, but it's very much not like some people can like tolerate and that's what they want.

They'll be like, well, I want, like, what's the best option here?

You know, And I'll be like, I want to cut out.

I want to cut it out.

And I'll, I'll explore that with them.

If they want to do that, that's fine.

But ultimately, I think, you know, looking at scale of good, better, best is just really useful.

Like, what's your good look like?

And let's just keep it like that.

What are people looking for how do you spot it?

Yeah, so I would.

In terms of, I mean, it.

Yeah, it could be many different things going on, but specifically in terms of that overgrowth, in terms of that candida, I would really look for, particularly within children, how quick they are to get to rage.

Now, that could be.

George.

Yeah, that be.

Yeah, exactly.

That could be children just being children, for sure.

But I would look at it over a long period of time and look at it in different environments and ultimately, you know, a parent is their own, they are the expert on their child.

Like, yes, I'm here to support.

But ultimately, you know, exactly what is happening at certain times, you know, at school or going back home or whatever it might be.

And I'd really look for, you know, that, that, that, that real quick to rage, where it might just come out of nowhere.

That usually is kind of a real sort of telling tale sign of that candida overgrowth.

That is all sort of.

I suppose that will be all tied in, in terms of.

Obviously it's at the level of the gut and the people can present as that.

But stomach pain could be lots of different things.

I mean, so could rage to a certain extent, but that one tends to be.

Yeah, really linked.

It's a bit of a buzzword at the moment, protein in the ADHD world.

And I know it's.

It helps with your medication if you're on medication, but I've heard as well that people with ADHD need more protein than neurotypicals.

Is that true?

So, yeah, I mean, if we looked at, in terms of the structural point of view, you know, in terms of we need protein, proteins made up of amino acids, right?

And those amino acids combine together to make.

If we look at those neurotransmitters such as tyrosine, etc.

Now, so they're really important for the structural making of those neurotransmitters.

It's also really useful in terms of helping stabilize that blood sugar, you know, because protein releases energy slower than say, pure sugar, if you like.

So that can be really useful and particularly that can really help with, sometimes with emotional dysregulation for children as well, or.

And adults is when we get really hangry.

It might just be that we haven't eaten or we've forgotten to eat.

So particularly for adults, having like a set time to eat can be really useful in terms of that and making sure it's paired.

So, like protein, healthy fat is really, is really useful and some, you know, some complex carbs can be absolutely, really, really useful.

But I Think also the other side to the protein argument has got a lot of awareness at the moment is fiber.

Like, we don't eat enough.

Many people don't eat enough fiber.

You need a minimum of 30 grams a day.

Many of us are just about hitting 20.

But ultimately, fiber is that is feeding the probiotics, so the good bacteria than our digestive system.

So the more range of different fibrous foods we're eating in terms of the different colors they're going to give different polyphenols, which are going to feed the range of bacteria to produce those things which we want, such as those vitamins and minerals, such as those enzymes, such as those neurotransmitters within our digestive system.

So fiber is one, I think, which goes missing a lot.

And as we've talked about the importance of a balanced digestive system and that gut microbiome together.

So, yes, protein is important.

There are lots of other things important.

I think it's just about trying to just be aware of it and having, you know, a balance because sometimes there might be a weekly, oh, I haven't eaten any fiber this week.

But I think it's just about recognizing it, thinking, okay, how can I just pair certain foods together?

And that's not necessarily making like a meal, because that's another conversation in itself, like having, you know, the mental capacity to make a meal and all of the.

Just different steps.

So I'm very cautious as well as being like, right, here's 10 different meals.

They're going to take you 45 minutes to make.

It's like, no, here are five meals.

They have five ingredients.

They're going to take you 10 minutes to make, you know.

And what does a meal look like?

It could just be like a selection of five different pieces of food you put together.

And that's absolutely fine.

How do you.

I was thinking this.

How do you pair sugar with protein if you're just having a stack?

Yeah, it's a really good question.

So, I mean, with sugar.

So sugar can be like.

I suppose we look at sugar in terms of like a complex carb is a sugar, you know.

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I, I mean, you could have, you could have chocolate, you could have a little bit of apple, and you can have some peanut butter on there, you know, for example.

And that, that combination.

Yeah, that combination there.

You've got some sugar, you've got some protein, and you've got some healthy fat, for example.

So I think it's just about finding those, those combinations.

And again, you know, it's not about like, oh, I'm having sugar, I need to have protein or always combine it.

I think it's just having a bit like a more of an awareness or it's like, right, this is my favorite snack.

Can I, can I make it?

You know, could I make myself an energy ball which could be three or four ingredients in a blender.

Again I know it is making it but there are also other snacks you can literally buy off the shelf which might be a little bit more nutritionally dense for you as well.

But then equally eating something is better than not eating anything at all.

So it's really meaning where somebody that and not really not putting any shame at all around food whatsoever is really important.

You know what was a game changer for me?

Frozen chopped garlic, frozen chopped onions and frozen chopped ginger.

Because I used to hate doing all those things and it used to put me after like cooking a whole meal and just having those in the freezer ready to work out.

Like.

Yeah, love that there's.

And protein bread as well, which I know you could probably get some dodgy ones but there's some out there which is just bread and loads of seeds and nuts in it.

Yeah, exactly.

Perfect.

If you just rush into work in the morning.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

ADHD friendly things, aren't there?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

And I think it's just about.

Yeah.

Recognizing what is out there.

And again, yeah, you could have like, you could have that seed bread topped with, you know, if you, if you are loving Unatella at the moment, you could put that on there instead of putting it on white bread for example and that would be a really good start, you know, so it's just about those small little swaps while I was looking at those small little things which is.

Yeah.

Which is really important.

I also love the fact like yeah.

The frozen chop, pre chopped veg or whatever it might be is an absolute game changer.

What are the most common nutritional deficiencies you see in ADHD children?

Yeah, there are three really.

I'd say omega 3, zinc and magnesium.

Now omega 3 is a fatty acid.

It's.

We need it, it's essential and it does come from oily fish.

However, children sometimes don't usually eat a whole lot of oily fish, particularly neurodiverse children because of the sense, the taste, the texture.

And we'll go into that in a bit more detail.

I'm sure later you can can get it in terms of a supplement form.

This would be a really good supplement as well to, to, to look to introduce now the reason why is because it contains something called dha, which is really important for that developmental side of the brain, particularly the prefrontal cortex, particularly within children.

And it's just really important for emotional regulation, really important for memory, mood, all those things which are.

Which are kind of really important.

So as a child, but equally as an adult, Omega 3 is really important for downgrading inflammation.

So.

And usually I suppose that the patterns I've seen is that lots of people that come to me are really inflames.

Their nervous systems are on fire, their body is literally on.

On fire, and we want to try and put out that fire in the most sort of sustainable, non sort of alarming way.

And Omega 3 can be really incredibly useful for that.

I'd say the other one, this is.

So interesting because I'm pretty sure that my body was stuck in fight or flight my whole life because of the adhd and I used to get ill all the time.

Like, I think I was just always inflamed.

Yeah, it's so important.

What about if you're vegetarian or vegan?

Yeah, vegan and vegetarian.

You can get pure sauce from algae, so, yeah, you can get it from non, non fish sources.

So there are.

Yeah, it's a really good question.

And that's with all.

Ha.

As well.

Yeah, with all of these, you can get.

The makeup might be slightly different, but you can get through.

Yeah, going through the source, I suppose, as opposed to, like, what are the fish eating, what you can go to.

The source itself can be really useful.

Yeah, obviously.

How about magnesium?

Because there's so many different types of magnesium.

Yeah, and.

Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, different way.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

And again, like, it can be so overwhelming in terms of.

Oh, wow.

There are like many different types of magnesium.

So.

Yeah, I think it's.

First it's important, like, understanding what magnesium is for.

So magnesium is really important for regulating the nervous system, particularly for obviously producing that dopamine we talked about before.

But equally looking at it has a calming effect on the.

The body's ability to produce gaba.

So GABA sort of comes about in a cycle towards late afternoon of the day for that sort of real calming feeling, almost getting ready, I suppose, for that end of the day sort of feeling.

So it's really important.

And if.

Yeah, exactly, yeah.

And if our bodies.

If our bodies are really inflamed, the body's ability to make gab is really important.

And if you're kind of really inflamed as well, you're Going to be stripping away magnesium.

So even more important to have that magnesium to make that gamma.

Right, so, yeah, yeah, like for a woman, for example, around that time of the month, because I know my inflammation goes really high.

Take more magnesium.

I mean, it depends how much you're taking already, but like.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, to a certain extent, yes.

Like, there are some supplements which you want to be careful with, but there are equally some internal magnesium where you can be.

Still want to be careful, but yeah, around certain.

Yeah, exactly.

And particularly also if you're doing lots of sport as well, because magnesium is really important for muscle relaxant.

So you can find like, you know, signs of low magnesium, could be sleep problems, it could be sensory issues with the environment.

And equally is muscle tension, you know, or twitches, for example, you can really notice if there's low magnesium because you'll particularly burn through your magnesium extremely quickly if you feel stressed, anxious, feel like you're a lot.

I've got a lot on and it's a real telltale sign of maybe not having enough.

So, yeah, magnesium is incredibly important and in terms of how you can administer it as well.

Like, yes, you can get the cream to the oils, you can get it in terms of Epsom salts, which sometimes is my go to just because you just feel like you just get into that bath, if you've got a bath, and some people don't want a bath, actually, and that's absolutely fine.

It's like everybody's, you know, preference.

So, yeah, magnesium is incredibly useful.

And I always said the last one, I suppose, was zinc.

And again, zinc's really good for, well, the immune system, which is incredibly important.

Annex can be really good in terms of helping that dopamine reuptake cycle.

And it's really important in terms of overall gut health.

And how would you know you're low in zinc?

So all of these things, I suppose, are.

Yeah, if you're feeling certain traits and you want to look at them, that's really useful.

But having certain ideas about what, what, what, what does low zinc look like?

So that could look at particularly picky, for example, or selective eating is pretty much a term.

Frequent illness, slow wound healing and looking at white spots on the nails that could be sign of losing.

So there are signs to these things and I usually do see them in terms of, you know, when I go through a client and case history and ask certain questions about the whole body.

Yeah, these things tend to come up and they can make a real difference.

Putting in a couple of supplements at the start.

So It's a bit of minefield, isn't it, at the moment?

Like, there's so many supplements and everything out there.

Would you say those three are the core ones for adhd?

Yeah, I mean, I would say so about.

Again, you might have someone saying, you know, something, you know, that that's, that's helped them.

But I would say, like, from my personal experience and the science and the data I've seen, I say those three are really useful as a starting point.

But again, like a good multivitamin, you could probably get those in there as well.

You'll be covering those basis.

But I think it really depends upon what you're.

You're experiencing and what, what areas you want to work on, really.

And again, in terms of the types, yeah, magnesium, like, you want to be careful because there are some which can be a little bit more disruptive to the gut.

So it depends what the situation is like in the gut.

But I'd say, like magnesium bisglycinate is usually a really nice calming one.

And it's the glycine that's better for sleep.

Glycine or bisglycinate?

Yeah, very useful for sleep and calming down the body.

So many kids, obviously are extremely selective eaters.

I love that term.

How can parents improve nutrition without creating battles at the dinner table?

Yeah, I suppose it's one of the, one of the questions I get asked the most because it's all very well, isn't it, having all this information and saying, yeah, but will my.

My child, or is I.

Or it could be an adult.

It could, you know, it could be a parent saying, I'm also supporting.

I know a lot of adults have it too.

Yeah, exactly.

I like, these are my safe foods.

This what's worked for me.

And again, absolutely, you know, fine, let's meet you where you're at if those are your safe foods.

And that's, that's the situation that keep, you know, keeps you going, you know, let's start slow.

So particularly with, I suppose if we look at children, I suppose like more pressure equals high anxiety, which can equal, I suppose, avoidance and kind of disengagement.

So the thing with that would be to how can we lower the pressure?

How can we lower pressure around food?

Because many children just feel so overwhelmed, you know, and that causes our nervous system to ramp up and that causes inflammation.

So it's like this vicious cycle.

So I suppose with anything, it's like, how can we lower the pressure?

How can we calm our nervous system?

Ultimately, it's just such a, such a Good, I suppose mechanism anyway for ADHD in general.

So I suppose lower the pressure, reduce the overwhelm and that could be looking at kind of.

Yes, have their safe foods, but adding in maybe one or two other foods which, you know, they might be interested in.

If they don't eat them, fine.

But they're there, they're seeing them, they're on the table.

You know, reduce that pressure.

And again, it might not even be eating at the table.

Usually people are really open to it, but sometimes it's like, oh well, we need to have dinner altogether.

Okay, yes, that could be a goal you do want to achieve.

And yeah, there's so many benefits that of course.

But ultimately what's what we're looking at right now?

We're looking at increasing the diversity of foods.

Does that look like if they're sitting on the carpet in front of the TV eating some other foods you haven't seen before, is that better than trying to force pressure and eating them at the table?

Yeah, because I've got issues even like the clinking of the plate and things like.

Like that.

Like it's Exactly.

Or hearing other people chewing and all of those things are really important.

Or like forcing a conversation.

Like, you know, your child, you've had to sit through school all day, you've been asking just to survive that and then you've come home and you've got to sit at the table.

Yeah.

They talk about your whole day and like.

And I think also eating or having food available before they become hungry is so important because usually when hunger kicks in, it's very hard to then come back to that.

You know, regulate, like regulate.

It makes regulation a lot, lot harder.

So again, reduce pressure their emotions or because they just.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So no kind of know your.

Like, I suppose like when your child is going to be really hungry and have something available before.

Okay.

Like if it's at enough school pickup, you know, having some their favorite food there at that time can be so useful it can potentially save a meltdown.

That's really good tip for adults as well because I'm really, really hungry.

Like I just want the quickest thing there.

Like I don't want to.

Yeah.

About exactly cooking.

And a lot of the times like we're all guilty for ADHD as fucking but you know, we'll put off eating and it gets like 9 o' clock and you say, oh yeah, I can't be able to get everything out now I'll have a.

Have eight rice cakes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Or having those Rescue meals like those.

Those bits in the freezer you can literally chuck together.

Oh, my God, I love that.

Yeah, that's a good hack.

Yeah, exactly.

And equally, I suppose with children, it's about like drip feeding information, saying like, oh, sometimes I feel better when I'm eating, you know, some fruits and vegetables and just leaving like that.

So it's not like, why are you not eating your vegetables?

Like, it's like, oh, I feel better when I'm eating that.

Or yeah, some of these foods really help when I've got a tummy ache.

You know, those.

That little drip feed can be really useful and you don't need a response.

You just.

It just helps in terms of.

That's a really low sort of pressure approach, which can be really useful not just for children, but equally for adults.

Yeah, definitely.

What's been some of your biggest breakthroughs with your clients?

Going from a place of, like, emotional exhaustion, anger overwhelm, to just feeling heard.

Right.

Really feeling her for the first time and working with someone for, you know, my program is a minimum of 12 weeks, so.

And there's a reason for that, because change doesn't happen overnight.

It does take time and to really hear that person, really hear their story, really hear what they're going through.

In terms of breakthroughs I've had, you know, children have really struggled to sleep, have, you know, not been able to sleep for years who've been able to sleep, or children who have gone from like extreme rage to kind of reducing in terms of their meltdowns.

Children who have really struggled.

And I know school is a completely different conversation.

Who really struggled to go to school because they're like, kind of low me self confidence.

Go to school again.

And equally adults as well, who have really struggled with addiction.

I love how you shaped that with compassion because I think so many kids are labeled like a burden or so annoying like he never eats his dinner.

And, you know, it's almost like it's that they're the bad kid.

We're actually, you know, they're coming from a place of struggle.

Not.

Yeah, absolutely, your child is not being a problem.

They are having, you know, a problem.

Like, how can we help them meet them where they're at and how can we help them regulate?

It's just ultimately so important.

What would be your advice to parents whose child has just had an ADHD diagnosis and they're not sure what to do next?

Start small because there can be so, so much overwhelming amount of information out there.

So I think give your time to process my Process what's happened.

You know, you might have been on this journey for a long time.

It might be something which has come on quite sudden.

Regardless of whatever your situation is, have that time to process what has happened and you might think, oh, it's not, you know, I knew this was the case.

But still take that time to process that, whatever that looks like and what that looks like for you.

And then I think on the parents, can't it?

Yeah, because there can be like, I suppose a lot of like misunderstanding about oh, is it the way I've done this?

So X, Y and Z, it's just like.

Well no, it's a neurodevelopmental condition.

Like have the compassion, have the space and see what you know.

Then once you've kind of, I suppose feel comfortable and got the space and process a lot of emotions, whether it's for your child and or yourself because it can be incredibly like we spoke about before in terms of relating to grief, then see, okay, what are the areas in which I can, if it's for your child, start to notice more things, you know, having an understanding of what works for them, you know, ask the questions and staying curious is really useful.

Try and look for neuroaffirming practitioners, whether that's it can be in nutrition, that might be in therapy, that might be in, you know, PT for example, really look for that because that can make a massive difference to your experience with that support.

So what programs are you offering right now for parents of ADHD and their kids?

I have a 12 week program and it uses my brain body methods which again, yeah, really kind of ties in everything we've discussed really.

So it looks like nutrition, so it looks at specific food supplements and potential lab testing if that's appropriate, which again in some cases can be really useful.

And then it looks at lifestyle, so it looks at sleep, movement and how we can optimize environments.

Particularly looking at what's your sensory environment like?

Are you sensory seeking or kind of, you know, don't want that sort of sensory load.

Then equally it looks at a mindset piece which really looks at shifts in terms of lowering the pressure.

Because all like the nutrition and the lifestyles are incredibly important but how it's delivered is equally as important.

Yeah, it's a 12 week journey.

We'd start by having an initial consultation to really hear your voice, like really hear your journey.

We'd take the time to hear all of that which is just so important.

So many people just do not feel heard.

So just a few quick fire questions.

To finish off what's one current narrative you'd like to interrupt?

ADHD is not a behavioral problem.

It's not being too much, it's not being not enough.

It's a neuro, biological, neurodevelopmental way of thinking, of being, which has so many different multifaceted, faceted approaches to it, which I think need to be looked at as a whole.

You know, yes, medication is an option, so is nutrition, so is lifestyle, so is the environment, so is mindset, so is nervous system regulation.

Like combining those pieces together is when you have such a profound effect.

Just like ecosystems need like biodiversity to thrive, our society needs different ways of thinking, of creating a problem solving.

But I think ultimately right now, and it is getting better, but it's still taking so much time, there's a society based upon certain principles, norms and rules which ultimately fit a certain type of brain.

But at the moment, in some environments don't cater for all different types of brains.

But I feel like the movement's getting stronger and stronger and people are sharing our voices like yourself and so many other people right now, which is incredibly important.

There's one nutrition myth about ADHD you would love to retire forever, that there's.

No sort of like one food or one diet or one supplement or one hack.

That is the thing.

It's a combination of different things that.

And again, there might be a supplement or group of supplements which works really well for you and that, that's.

You swear by that and that's great.

Like you found something which is going to help you.

Amongst other things.

How does someone kind of hack their way to good, good health, like if they don't have access to these tests?

Sure, yeah.

It's a really, yeah, really good question.

Simply, I'd say again, with any of these things, start slow.

I think the first thing would just be to try and add some more fiber into your diet.

And again, this is a very general term because that might not be useful for somebody based upon their previous.

My medical history, but if we're talking generally, I would say increase the diversity of fiber within the diet for sure.

In terms of.

Try to go for like start off with eating three more vegetables you haven't had in a week, you know, and can those three divest?

And that would be your starting point.

Yeah, exactly, yeah.

The, the diversity of.

So like saying to somebody, right, I think we need to get 30 different plants a week.

Okay, yes, it's doable if you know a lot about it.

But that is so overwhelming to start off.

That's why I'm saying work with someone who's neuro affirming like that.

Just usually, you know, unless they've got the capacity and really want to go for it, want all the data and the information but I'd say nine times out of ten it's right.

Start, let's start slow.

Like yes, increasing your plant diversity, whether that's spices, fruit, vegetables, etc.

Herbs can be really useful.

But let's start really slow and work, let's start off with five, you know and with children as well.

You can get them involved in terms of like having a color chart and there's loads of different ways adults as well.

But I think yeah, just start, start slow.

So one hopeful thing that you would want parents listening today to take away.

I think yeah, feeling empowered to actually ask the questions and question people like what's their advice, what's their background, what's their.

Are they neuro affirming?

Like look at all these things, look at things deeper because yeah, you, you, you are ultimately in control.

You are advocating for yourself and particularly, you know, if you've got child's love for your child or children.

It's just so unbelievably important and asking the question like what does my child need right now?

To feel supported and regulated, it's just really important and starting to noticing those things and seeing it through a lens of lowering that pressure and ultimately to know that you know, you're doing your best.

Thank you so much for coming on.

No, it's been a pleasure.

Thank you so much for having me.

So many more questions.

Yeah, you're incredible.

You're so knowledgeable, so, so good.

Where can people find you online?

So I'm @willmart nutrition on Instagram and I've got a website as wellnutrition.

Com and if people want more sort of targeted advice, offer a free 30 minute consultation.

So yeah, just drop me a DM on Instagram or you can book by my website and we can start a conversation.

Yeah and I'll leave all Will's links and stuff in the caption.