Kat is doing a dual PA and MPH at Tufts, and I get asked about dual degrees enough that I wanted someone actually in one to explain it.

She applied to ten programs, three of which were dual degree. That's a smart way to do it - she kept her options open instead of betting everything on a specific format.

What the public health side gives her is a different lens. She's not just thinking about the patient in front of her, she's thinking about why that patient ended up there and what would have prevented it. For anyone who wants to work with underserved communities, that's a real advantage.

The tradeoff is more time and more money. She's clear-eyed about that too.

What we talk about:

• Applying to dual degree PA/MPH programs
• How the Tufts program is structured
• What public health training adds to clinical work
• Working with underserved communities
• Whether the extra time and cost is worth it
• Building patient care experience alongside all of it

Resources:

PA Program Map: https://www.thepaplatform.com/pa-platform-map

Free application timeline: https://www.thepaplatform.com/services/free-application-timeline

Pre-PA counseling: https://www.thepaplatform.com/services/pre-pa-counseling

Free personal statement worksheet: https://www.thepaplatform.com/services/free-personal-statement-worksheet-download

Mentioned in this episode:

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Have you ever considered going to a PA program that also offers a master's in Public health?

What does that look like and why would you do it?

Today we're talking to Kat and she's going to tell us all about her decision to do just that.

Welcome to the Pre PA Club podcast.

If you want to learn how to become a physician assistant, you're in the right place.

I'm your host, Savannah Perry.

Let's get to it.

Hey, y'.

All, Happy holiday season.

This is Savannah Perry here, dermatology PA Pre PA coach on the PA platform and your podcast host.

Thank you so much for joining me.

I'm very excited about today's episode.

I don't think I'm ever not excited about an episode, but these past few interviews and the ones coming up are just so great and such great information that I'm so excited to share it with you.

But I hope you've enjoyed them.

If you have, I would love if you could give us a shout out wherever you're listening to this podcast.

If you could give us a review, rate the podcast, leave a comment and just let us know kind of what you're thinking.

But anyway, today we are going to talk to Kat in just a minute.

She actually reached out to me, I think, or I'd been looking for somebody who had done a joint public health and PA program.

And her situation is kind of interesting because she interviewed at both regular PA programs and joint programs, but she really wanted to go to those joint programs.

I'll let her tell you more about that.

But ultimately what I'm saying is this wasn't.

She didn't go there just because she had to.

She had a choice.

And so her perspective is very interesting to me.

Before we jump in, I did want to mention the couple sponsors we have for the podcast.

If you are about to start school in January, you may want to check out paschoolprep.com and that is an online course that helps prepare you with a refresher on your anatomy, physiology and med terms.

But going through everything, there's a textbook involved.

Just take a look.

The link is in the description and you can use the code future PA for a discount on that program as well as MyPA resource.

And if you're getting ready to apply, this one may be more relevant to you because you gotta make sure that personal statement is on point.

And if you need help with that as far as editing, definitely check out myparesource.com and use that code futurepa there as well.

We also have some Things at the PA platform that I think you should know about.

If you're not a member of our Facebook group, I would love for you to join.

So we have a Facebook group called the Pre Pa Club.

There are about almost 8,000 members in it and it is awesome.

So many great questions, people jumping in with their advice and opinions and experiences.

So make sure you join that the link is also in the description.

Or just search the Pre PA Club on Facebook and it should pop right up.

Alright, let's get into our interview with Kat so you can learn more about PA and PH options.

Let's go.

So my name is Kat and I am from Wisconsin.

I went to the University of Wisconsin Madison where I majored in biology and got a certificate which is basically like a minor in Global health.

And then I found myself going to beauty school.

Obviously a lot of steps in between there, but that is the gist of where I'm from and what I'm interested in.

Do you know our coach Jordan is probably like a big school and you don't.

But I follow her on Instagram.

I don't know her personally, but yes, I always love her little shout outs to UW Madison.

Yeah, that sounds like she went there.

Okay, so did you start undergrad with a minor in global health?

Like was that already an interest for you or is that something that kind of developed?

Not prior to starting undergrad, but I think within my freshman year I had heard of the certificate program and I thought, hey, I'll just try these classes.

And it was a pretty simple certificate for me to get.

It wasn't that many courses in addition to what I was already taking, so I thought, hey, I'll just explore this area a little more.

Ended up loving it.

So obviously interesting.

Okay, so did you go into college wanting to go into PA school or did your path kind of change during school?

Yeah, my path actually changed a lot.

I knew that I really liked science, kind of like a lot of other people I knew I liked biology, but I really didn't know where I was going to fit in from there.

I was pre med for a while and I actually considered all sorts of things.

I considered dietetics, I considered dental, OT, PT.

I shadowed a few people who were PTs.

OTs decided therapy wasn't necessarily the route.

I really liked medicine.

And so then it was kind of between PA and md and lucky for me there were so many on campus organizations that I just learned so much about all these different professions and that's how I learned about the PA profession is my Sophomore year in undergrad, and There was this PA panel with current PAs, PA students, PA admissions faculty, and they really sold me on the profession.

I remember.

Awesome.

Okay, so you decided sophomore year, you're probably already kind of on the track with everything you needed.

What?

So once you made that decision, what did your path look like as far as getting from undergrad to PA school?

Yeah, so for my patient care experiences, I started doing right about the time that I decided I wanted to do pa.

I was actually already getting my CNA license before that, so it worked out really well.

So I worked as a CNA for a while to get that patient care experience.

I volunteered hospitals, all of the boxes being checked as we go.

But then at the same time, I was developing this interest in public health, and so I was trying to figure out where that would come into play, if it would come into play.

So, yeah, I had a lot of exploring that I did during my undergrad.

Sure.

Did you want to go straight from undergrad into PA school or did you end up taking a gap year?

I took kind of a mini gap year, so I graduated in May, and then the program I selected started in January, So it was like a little over a half a gap year, which was perfect for me.

I still got to work, make a little money, but I also got to go on a fun trip to Europe and all that.

But the reason that I didn't go straight is actually I sacrificed.

Sacrificed.

Sacrifice is a strong word.

But I.

One of my summers between my sophomore and junior year, I studied abroad, which was part of the Global Health Certificate program, actually.

So I went to Thailand and fulfilled the requirement for that certificate.

And so as a result, didn't get the patient care that summer.

But, yeah, it was a trade off I was willing to make because I really wanted to study abroad and I really liked public health.

And so it was a small sacrifice in the long run, but I really valued those experiences and it shaped my path for sure.

Okay, so when it came time to choosing schools, did you only apply to schools that had a public health option or what?

What were you looking for there?

So I applied to dual degree programs.

I also applied to traditional programs.

So I applied to 10 total, and three of the 10 were dual degree.

Part of that is because the dual degree is pretty uncommon still.

So, yeah, there aren't very many.

There aren't that many.

So I had it on my radar.

But I was also of the mindset that, hey, if I got into a traditional program, I would go there and do the public health later.

I prefer to kind of knock them out at the same time just because I feel like it's easier while you're in school mode just to kind of bang it out.

But I knew that PA was like the dream job in the sense that I would.

And it's more competitive to just do pa, so that was like the forefront.

But yeah, so I applied to a mix of them.

Okay.

Did you at any point consider, or was it a consideration if you didn't get into PA school just going to do a public health program?

I did not apply to any solely public health programs.

I think I was maybe overly confident that I would get in to somewhere, but I didn't really think too much about that.

I. I would have for sure done PA had that been the case.

I would have taken another year and probably applied to the same thing, dual degree and traditional.

But I don't think I would have ever just done public health and been satisfied with that.

Gotcha.

I really love the public health, but it is the PA was like number one.

Gotcha.

Okay, so talk us through your application cycle.

You said you applied to 10 programs.

What?

I mean, like, how many interviews did you get?

What was difficult for you?

What do you think maybe stood out on your application versus what?

Were there any red flags?

Sorry, loaded question.

Well, that's okay.

So, yeah, I applied to the 10 programs, three of which were the dual degrees.

And then I was offered six interviews.

I went to three and I ended up getting accepted at all three.

So yeah, I was really lucky that I had a little leverage and a little bit of decisional room.

It made it a little difficult because I was accepted to traditional and dual degree programs.

So it took a lot of reflection for me and a lot of pro cons list to kind of figure out what really matters to me and which program would be the best fit.

So yeah, I considered a lot of things.

Location, clinical opportunities, staff support, all of the things that everyone considers when they're picking schools.

And I tried to weigh which of those factors were most important to me as well, because they aren't outweighed equally.

So it took a lot of time.

But I ended up choosing the program at Tufts, which is the dual PAMPH program.

Okay.

So that's, I mean, that's impressive.

You must have had a very impressive application.

So what, I mean, what were your deciding factors?

Because the MPH PA program is going to take longer.

Right.

So what when you are weighing those pros and cons, what did that decision making look like?

Yeah, there are a lot of reasons to to do or to not do the dual degree.

It is longer, it is more costly.

And for me, the location in Boston is expensive city.

So financially it was.

That was one of the biggest decisions that I had to kind of come to terms with.

I was really fortunate that I didn't have debt from undergrad.

So that made my decision easier.

I will be taking out loans for this graduate program now, but I really think that my values and my view of health and healthcare were in line with what public health education would provide me.

And so that really was the deciding factor, the fact that it was a dual degree.

I also really liked Boston.

I think it's kind of this medical mecca.

So I was really excited to be learning in this hub of innovation and networking and all sorts of great things.

Trying to think other factors.

I really liked the staff that I met, and there were a lot of things about the program that I really enjoyed, but it was.

It was a tough decision.

I won't say it was easy.

Yeah.

Okay.

So when applying.

So do you think, because this is a question I sometimes get, do you think people have a better chance of getting in if they apply to a dual degree program?

Like, are there less people applying to them?

Like,.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I actually had not really considered that question before.

I heard someone recently ask it, but I think that numbers wise, maybe it is a little easier.

And I believe Tufts just posted their most recent stats.

And so it's about a 10% acceptance rate for the dual degree.

So I think that is better than some traditional PA programs.

It's still not great.

It's still very competitive.

It's not like a walk in the park.

But yeah, they do reserve, I would say, five to 10 spots for the dual degree, which also isn't always advertised.

So if you're looking at a class size of 50, you think, oh, there's 50 spots.

It's like.

Well, actually, some of those are reserved for the dual degree, kind of.

So it is kind of an interesting consideration.

I don't necessarily.

I wouldn't ever say it's easy to get in the dual degree, but yeah, I mean, it is a consideration for sure.

Any less competition?

So they have regular PA program students who are not doing dual degree two.

Correct.

Okay.

So how are both of those programs?

Huh?

I said that's not true of all programs.

But that is how theirs is.

How is.

So how are both of those programs set up as far as timing and all that?

Yeah, so it's for the dual degree.

It's a three year program.

The first year is solely dedicated to public health.

And then the second and third year are the traditional PA program.

So right now I'm with my cohort of seven of us, and then in January, we'll join with the rest, leading up to the 50 total class.

But, yeah, so the first year is our generalist program.

We knock out the entire public health year in that time frame.

Our public health classes are really cool.

They range from six to maybe like 30 people.

And it depends on which classes, but it's with other MPH students in the dental program or the business program, or some even Skype in.

So it's a very interprofessional learning space.

Interesting.

Okay, so you basically will kind of roll in with the next class in January and then.

Okay, so how do you think, or I guess what are your professional goals?

Like, how do you think that having this extra education in public health will either benefit you or benefit your patients?

Or.

I mean, what.

How has that played into your decision?

Yeah, for me, personally, I am pretty malleable still on what exactly I want to do in terms of specialty for pa, so it's hard for me to kind of say how the public health will add to that.

But I'm confident that even the training of broadening my lens of what health and healthcare are, developing these communication skills, working from a framework like the social determinants of health and things that you hear about, but we really get that ingrained into us.

And so being able to kind of view my patient more holistically, being able to better advocate for them, it's kind of.

It kind of feels vague right now.

But I definitely am confident that later down the road I will apply it in some way.

I think that when I graduate PA school, I'm going to want to work as a pa and it's going to be kind of stressful.

So I'm probably going to focus in on that and the skills.

But then I think later on, it opens these doors for innovation and job growth and creativity in ways that I potentially wouldn't have been able to or wouldn't have necessarily been thinking of.

So I think it could prevent burnout, in a way, is one of the ways that I was thinking that it would benefit me.

I do know some of my classmates, they have very specific goals, which is also cool.

So they are like, oh, I really want to work for this homeless program.

And so their whole public health year really is tailored to that because you can apply that to every single core class.

And then at the end of the day, you'll have all These skills so specifically tailored for that population, which is also a really cool way to apply it.

Interesting.

Okay, so one of our coaches non.

She did a public health program before getting into PA school and actually worked with it.

So she was like, you know, out doing research and epidemiology and all this stuff before she decided to go back to PA school.

And so it was really interesting hearing kind of her experience.

This is.

This may be like a super elementary question, but what exactly do you learn in public health classes?

Or like, what are your classes like?

Yeah, so we.

We're a generalist, like I mentioned, so we have several core classes that are, you know, epidemiology, biostats, public health policy, occupational, environmental health, so kind of those core components.

But then you also get flexibility in the electives, which is where I've had a lot of fun with it.

So.

So I've taken end of life and palliative care, maternal and child health, infectious disease, epidemiology.

So you can really.

It's such a broad field that you can really find classes in all sorts of disciplines, and they're really interesting to delve into.

And the professors and the speakers you hear from are just really inspiring.

And they're very.

They're very knowledgeable too.

They're experts in the field.

So it's been really cool.

Probably very passionate people.

So I didn't.

I never took any public health classes in undergrad, but that's always an area that I tell people to look into because it counts towards the science gpa.

And I think now look like learning more now.

I think some of those classes do sound so interesting and probably would come in handy for just understanding maybe populations or patients more, just kind of as a whole, because you do run into, you know, just different.

Different populations that have, like, I'm in a suburban area, but I know we even have, you know, little subsets of just different.

Like one of our subsets is actually really interesting.

They're Irish travelers and they have, like, their own way of viewing medicine and stuff.

And so to know about them and, like, be able to kind of understand how they view medicine, like, and learn about that has been really interesting.

That's probably, like, who I would do a project on if I had that opportunity.

But.

Sorry, just to add, one of the cool things too, in addition to classes is we are required to do.

It's called the applied learning experience.

It's kind of like our public health capstone.

So it gives you more of a tangible experience of, okay, how does this public health come into practice.

So mine's kind of more clinical public health, which is obviously what I love.

So I'm looking at shared decision making in a cardiology clinic.

So it's just a really cool way to experience that intersection of medicine and public health.

And I think it's one of the best features of the program because it gives you that real life experience.

So are you actually getting to enact that project and put it in motion or is this something you kind of propose?

So it's.

It totally depends on what site you are and what your preceptors.

But yeah, I'm pretty involved.

I'm kind of functioning as a research assistant, but I'm involved in recruiting the patients, analyzing the data, and I'll be presenting it at the end as my capstone.

So.

That's so cool.

Yeah.

Did you have to do any other requirements for that to apply to an MPHPA program or was it all the same stuff?

I think that it's not required, but it's helpful if you have a little bit.

I would recommend, if people are interested in the dual degree, to definitely pursue it.

If you don't have courses, I would assume most undergraduates have some sort of public health course that you can experiment, but any sort of public health internship just to kind of get a feel for it.

Because like I said, it is another year of school and you want to make sure that it's of interest to you.

But there's a lot of different ways that it can be applied.

But I think it's beneficial to learn about it before you start it.

Yeah, it might look weird if you apply to a program and you have no idea what public health is or you've never taken a class.

So maybe do that.

Oh, for the interview process.

So this is something I've run into a couple times and I don't know what your experience was.

I've seen where for these programs they do a joint interview, like one just regular interview.

And then I've also seen where people have to interview twice, usually at the same time.

But like an MPH public health interview and a PA school interview.

What was your experience like with how they did that?

So they did it.

I just interviewed once.

I would not want to interview twice.

That sounds horrible.

But yeah, it was just one interview and it was a pretty relaxed interview.

It was pretty standard, but.

But the only other thing is they basically just ask you why public health in the interview.

Other than that, it's very much the standard questions, I would say.

But you do need to be prepared to speak to something in regards to public health?

Yeah.

Which is why I recommend, like, yes, you don't need to take certain courses or anything, but you should have some sort of experience that's motivating you for why you want public health that you can talk about.

Okay.

Yeah.

Did.

What about supplementals?

Did you have extra supplementals to kind of speak to some of that, similar to the interview?

It was just, like, one or two extra questions, kind of, why public health?

Or what experiences do you have that are related to that?

So nothing too extreme, too intense.

Okay.

Awesome.

How does that.

Or how do you think that will work, do you think?

I'm just thinking about your class, like, joining another class.

Do y' all feel, like, super close now and it's gonna be, like, weird or.

I don't know.

Yeah, we've definitely gotten close.

It's been fun.

Our cohort is from all over the country, so we all are pretty new to the city, so we have hung out a lot.

Except one girl's from Massachusetts.

But, yeah, I think we're all very aware.

Like, we don't want to be clicky.

Just because we're friends doesn't mean we don't want to get to know our new fellow classmates.

So I think it'll be great.

I think we're all very friendly, outgoing people, so it should be a good class.

I'm not too worried about it.

Yeah, I'm sure it'll be fine.

I just think I'll be so interesting.

Just join.

But I guess that's kind of how the undergrad, like, was it three plus two programs do too, where they kind of join in.

I actually interviewed a PA last week who went to one of those programs, and she was like, they kicked our butts.

Like, they were so great at PA school.

Is there anything how.

I mean, are you excited to transition into that part or nervous or you feel, like, ready now?

I'm definitely at the point now, nearing the end of my last semester, where I'm getting ready and getting excited for PA school.

You just use a lot of different skills during the public health, so you write more papers and you use more theoretical approaches, and I kind of missed that hard science.

That was my one motivation or my original passion.

So while I like the public health year a lot and I've learned so much, I'm definitely itching.

I, like, just bought all my equipment for the PA program, and I'm getting excited for it.

Definitely.

A little nervous, but excited.

Yeah, no, it'll.

I'm sure it'll be great.

I don't envy your Boston winters, but I'm sure it'll be great.

Okay, what would your advice be for someone who is kind of maybe on the fence?

They're like oh, I kind of am interested in public health, but I don't know, like what, what would your advice as someone who's kind of been there, made that decision, had the choice between traditional and mph, what would you kind of advise them or tell them?

Yeah, I think that like I mentioned, somehow getting a taste for the field, some either taking classes or looking up internships or volunteering or somehow getting a better sense of what public health is, how it could impact your practice.

Do you have a passion for underserved communities?

Do you want to go into epidemiology or clinical research or community based programs?

There's a whole host of ways that you can apply it and I think it really can be applied to every specialty, some more obvious ways, others.

But I think it really is applicable and I am excited for there to be more dual degree programs because I think it is beneficial for this broadening view of health and healthcare and how it can really improve access for people and overall just improve patients care.

I think that's perfect.

So yeah, thank you for sharing your insights.

You're welcome.

I'm happy to be here.

Alright y', all, so if you have any questions for Kat, reach out to me directly and I will get you in touch with her.

She's not really on social media, but she's happy to answer your questions anyway, so I hope that was helpful.

And I'm trying to put together a list of schools that have a joint PA and PH program, so be on the lookout for that either on social media.

If you follow us on Instagram the PA platform or or in our Facebook group, which I mentioned, I'll probably post it there as well.

And if you have any further questions, anything you want to hear about on the podcast, send it my way.

You can always email me infohepapaplatform.com and I'm happy to hear from you, hear your feedback, but also your suggestions.

And don't forget you can leave a voicemail for the podcast to have us answer it or find someone who can.

So thank you so much for listening and joining in and I hope you're having a great December so far.

See you guys next week.