Empowering Minds: Dr. Zeus Yiamouyiannis Unveils Learning Transformation

Discover a riveting episode of the Mindful Mutiny Podcast featuring the esteemed Dr. Zeus Yiamouyiannis, a visionary leader shaping the realm of learning and education. As the founder and driving force behind CitizenZeus.com, Dr. Yiamouyiannis's impact resonates globally. Immerse yourself in an enlightening conversation with a man of many accomplishments, including authoring "The Spiritually Confident Man" and "Transforming Economy: from Corrupted Capitalism to Connected Communities."

Delve into Dr. Zeus's remarkable journey as a learning consultant and professional developer, revolutionizing individual and corporate learning dynamics. Armed with a Ph.D. in philosophy of education, he brings unparalleled insights that uplift learning paradigms to new heights.

Join us as we explore how Dr. Zeus Yiamouyiannis's transformative work transcends traditional educational boundaries, fostering a holistic understanding of how individuals and organizations absorb knowledge. Unveil the essence of connected learning communities and the profound potential they hold in reshaping our world.

In this episode, gain access to the wisdom of a trailblazer who continues to challenge the status quo and usher in a new era of enriched learning experiences. Tune in to be inspired, enlightened, and equipped with fresh perspectives on the transformational power of learning.

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Jeremy Van Wert: Welcome to mindful mutiny. I'm Jeremy Van Wert, CEO therapist and high level coach on mindful mutiny. We thoughtfully rebel against anything that keeps people from obtaining their highest potential to day. You're gonna want to listen because we have an awesome guest. This is Doctor Zeus Yamayanas. Doctor Zeus. Yamiana's Ph. D is the founder and chief of the citizens.com.

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Jeremy Van Wert: Doctor Yamiyanas is also the author of the spiritually confident man, and transforming economy from corrupted capitalism to connected communities. Doctor Zeus is a learning consultant and professional developer who transforms the ability of individuals and companies to learn how they learn. Doctor Zeus has A. Ph. D. In the philosophy of education. Doctor Zeus. Thank you so much for being on the mindful mutiny, podcast

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: thanks for having me. Jeremy.

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Jeremy Van Wert: So there's so much to talk about here, because you and I became acquainted, I believe, back in about 2018, when you had written the spiritually confident man. And I suppose let's kind of start there with the

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Jeremy Van Wert: the basic tenets of the spiritually confident man. What that is, and why you felt it was an important thing for you to kind of bring to the national consciousness.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Yeah, I was there were 2 things that drove me, I think, that were different than

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: many of the other men's studies type men's group type of movements, and I've been to many of them. I've been to mankind project and others.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: But I was. I was taken with the absence of 2 very important things.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: One was the absence of an updated understanding of man's journey. Everyone always seemed to go back to Joseph Campbell, and the archetypes, and the lover and the philosopher and the king.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: I'm not objecting to that, or the appropriation of native American rituals to the extent that they may honor those rituals. But we needed what I thought was an updated understanding of postmodern understanding of where we are right now.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and a rendering of the traditional man as well as the modern man.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And that pointed toward a more toward spiritual confidence, toward co-creativity. And that was the second point. Almost all men's groups and men's studies were done to the exclusion of women.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: that that the spiritual notion of polarity. where there's the Feminine receptive Principle, and the Masculine Assertive Principle, and the necessity for any balanced person to have

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: healthy forms of those 2 within them was almost absent entirely from men's movements. It'd be the sweat lodging. There'd be the drumming

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: there'd be that growing the beard. There'd be the back to the Wild Man. But there wasn't, you know, and you know. And and then what I call the social man. In my book there's 3 types of animal man which I respect. I have a regressed, transitional, and evolved form. The evolved form of the animal. Man is a responsible man. That's when we think of the traditional man.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and then, of course, there's also a a, you know, regressed, transitional, and evolved form of the modern man of the social man I call him, and that is usually, considered like a a guy who helps

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: an equal participant in in in house cleaning and raising kids, and can responsibly have a job, and so forth, and so on. So you know both of those are honorable, and I say we have to retain them. So I'm not ideological. I'm inclusive in the way that I do this. But I really wanted a co-creative man, and that was what I didn't see.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and that's highest form of the co-creative man is what I call this spiritually confident man. He goes from despairing because, you know, he's in mid-age is he's raised the kids. He's done all he's accomplished, something in work.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and then he goes to a kind of searching.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and then, finally realising that the route he needs to find the Grail if it will, is here

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: within the own spirit, in in that sense of self trust, and the notion that he has unique divine genius, as we do all

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: that we can offer the world, and it is God given. It's not something. It's something we can choose to develop.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: You know, it's something we can devote ourselves to. And we must, I believe.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: But it is given. The basis is given for us and for me. Right now I'm choosing to go on that path, and I think I've had a little help from the universe. And you seem to with your with your podcast. And that is finding that either the institutional environments are too limiting.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: or that there just is a desire to bring forth a story

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: or a sense of meaning or practice that's just not available. And for me.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: I want to be the kind of man that I talk about in that book.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And I had. I have expertise in education applied to many jobs, but the universe seems to be holding off on those. And so I've just recently decided to dedicate myself

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: to what I call spiritually confident, living and being a spiritual counselor on that. I'm just started a sub stack on, spiritually confident, called spiritually confident. And I'll have some episodes up in addition to Citizen Zeus on A, on a new Youtube channel. It's gonna be a it's gonna be a particular passion of mine.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and in that I am a hoping and desiring to bring these age, old, philosophical, and spiritual principles into the enactment of this life, not just around masculinity, but about things like humility. And I just did an article on Humility, saying, It's an indispensable spiritual tool. It's humility is not frustration, I say, in this particular article it's actually being able to hear beneath which is the Greek root of the word, to hear

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: that which is the hire, and and commit yourself to it, and that can be difficult, because it doesn't have, you know, an easily laid out road or very professional

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: acclaim a lot of times you're gonna have to do what you're doing, Jeremy, which is to go on faith and realize that the other options are played out, and and to take that leap of faith, and you and I are doing it about the same time. So this is an opportunity.

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Jeremy Van Wert: I think we are. And as you're talking, I'm

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Jeremy Van Wert: thinking about you. You mentioned the industrial model, and we, you know, were raised in the industrial educational model and then prepared to go into the working world into an industrial working model. And there are very specific characteristics that are.

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Jeremy Van Wert: that that are, that are praiseworthy, that are the most useful characteristics that make a person the most useful in an industrial system. And when you're talking about the wholeness of self that you're you're talking about with a with a man being a holistic

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Jeremy Van Wert: total kaleidoscope of many different things, including creativity and everything like that.

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Jeremy Van Wert: It feels like the industrial model has almost intentionally bred that kind of thinking out of people. And it's a real shame. and it's been a part of what I've been writing about and starting to teach about is, how do you start to gain a larger sense of wholeness for yourself. When we have a system that really simply

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Jeremy Van Wert: kind of grinds people down to a specific kind of

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Jeremy Van Wert: effort versus reward model.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Umhm, it's a divide and conquer strategy. It. I don't think that's intentional, but the industrial model is what I call a grid model. Right?

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Hierarchies of authority like you see on the corporate ladder

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and then going across grids this way. Our specializations, mostly professional specializations and work specializations. The idea, the conceit behind it. And it's a false concede is that

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: there's a sort of scientific engineering project, not God created, but human created right that can kind of put all these pieces together. If we just do our little bit, we can. We could have a family and get our sense of self worth. We just pick one of those boxes

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: right? And maybe we move up along the hierarchy, as we, you know, get promoted at work, or maybe move a bit laterally, because, you know, we wanted to try it something a little, you know, you know, maybe related to our field, but a different subspecialty, or something like that

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: that is collapsing. not only because of AI, not only because of because of mechanization, not only because of.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: I think, the limits of consumerism and environmental sustainability.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: but but most importantly.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: it's collapsing because of what you've said.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Holism is health.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and fragmentation is disease. There's just no other way to put it.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: You can be in a diseased state. Historically, for a few 100 years.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Industrial evolution is probably getting up on about 200 or so late 18 hundreds mid to late 18 hundreds, so

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: 175 or so.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: But at a certain time that sickness is going to create symptoms, and what is created here is huge separation of wealth.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: anxiety about without the holism. What can you trust about yourself? What what your job is? What happens if you get outsourced or fired?

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Now, what do you have right? So my book, Spirit Man, was attempting to get at it at a stable, eternal.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: permanent understanding of where self worth comes from, and masculinity comes from in a man, and it is not in his job.

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It's an interesting statistic that men die very soon after they retire

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: overwhelmingly, oftentimes within months or within a couple of years, and you can see why, in the industrial system, right? Your entire self worth social worth, family worth, etc., is tied into your job.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Once that's gone.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: you you've basically sent the message over many decades to your body. Once I stop working, my, I no longer have a reason to exist and your body complies.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Now let's look at the holistic alternative to that. What if you're if you're worth. was based on self-respect and this divine genius. You're not quite sure

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: what it is, or how it can articulate itself.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: or how you can get paid for it, etc.,

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: but that it wants to continue as long as it can. It wants to develop itself

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: through the challenges and risks you take

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and it it it's so positive and affirmative, and to get to your point mindful mutiny.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: that you will rebel in a positive way

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: against things that you do not find helpful

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: to to what you what you consider as having integrity for yourself.

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For me.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: I'll give a humorous example, I guess. because it's so obvious. I think I might have shared this with you.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: I was trying to go to to pursue our spiritual path. and I didn't have enough confidence, as I do now in trying to form that path for myself, realizing that an institution was not going to fulfil it.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: So I went to a seminary. There's a local one here called Trinity Seminary. Then I transferred to one called Methodist Theological Seminary of Ohio.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and at that seminary I was drawn by my heart

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: to help an African American woman who I think of as a living sane. Her name her name was Shaka.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: ishaka is her language. We just called her Shaka.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and she. She keeps homeless people at our home. She's raising children. She's just got a heart of gold, and she's just got this glow around her. You could see that.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And I think this threatened one of our professors there

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: cause she was getting criticisms of plagiarism. She was getting criticisms getting C's and stuff. And I said, Chaka. She's just threatened by you.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: So I said, I'm going to go ahead and show you how to

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: respond to the conceits of a threatened professor.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: She was giving us this video. She had her name and the copyright date in the date of the film, like copyright, her name and date. So I said, what you do is you go into our videos, see what she wants. You type it into a search engine.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: You can bring up the sections of our readings, you know, because the Internet's so broad it will get the sections of our readings, and then you can kind of

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: give her back what she wants, you know

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: I type that in. And then I find that not just a few words matched, but every single word matched.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: She had narrated her videos that she had copyrighted under her name, and with the present year

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: completely word for word from a Unitarian website on Christian ethics. Mind you, this class is on Christian ethics. It just couldn't be any more ironic. Oh, my gosh! And all the class material I found out was cribbed from this thing. This is the person that was the most the biggest bear on plagiarism in the entire campus, and she had literally plagiarized almost every element of her class, and only in a couple of places, had put references there.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and had copyrighted in her video with her face, her name and year something which he'd read

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: word for word, practically from this Unitarian website. So

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: in an industrial framework.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: that's okay. You have the power and authority to do that over the students, you know, exert that power and authority. If you borrow, that's okay. If it's for your specialty, go ahead. There is no real moral compulsion. There.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: there's no holism. There's no virtue in an industrial model whatsoever.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And so I tried to use the Christian example. So listen. I am not trying to get this person fired. I want restorative

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: approach, restorative justice, right, not punitive in the Christian model. I want her to admit to her students what happened and say that she essentially repents, and that

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: that. She's going to learn from this right? And and that's the way that is the spirit, confident way to do something.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Okay. fess up.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: face it, see anything that's difficult and that might damage your social status as a, as a, as a, as a humbling but important move forward in your spiritual development, you know, and I have many examples like that.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: But that's not what happened. The the the so the Dean Academic Dean started covering for the President covered for the board covered for her, and that's the industrial model. The system must be maintained, no matter how corrupt the people in it are. If they're a good soldier in that system, then they need to be protected. And if you are a person with virtue who challenges that system or anyone in it with authority.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: You need to be disregarded, punished, disposed of, and so forth.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: So it's impossible in an industrial system to do anything other than come up with corruption. The specialization and authority mean more than virtue. They mean more than holism or health or sustainability.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: You see that military, industrial, complex, or the prison, industrial, complex, or big pharma complex in our society right now.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And that's all you see, leveraging power to have specific concentrated power power over people and concentration of wealth with no apology whatsoever, because there's no ethic

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: except the systems.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: perpetuation and reproduction, industrial

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: era, education as well as industrial era economies were always about reproducing, reproducing more and more efficiently. There was never a philosophical or spiritual reflective turn there.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: right? And that's really dumbed us down and made us essentially corrupt. And now you're seeing some of the most

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: insane forms of that coming due, and I'm sure, did you read some of my articles? You know that I have been not shy about pointing to the insanity of these things

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Jeremy Van Wert: is so as you're as you're talking here. This is. That's an amazing story. By the way, because it took a left turn that I wasn't really expecting. II was kind of expecting for you to have brought this up. And this professor admitted that she could be doing better, and that there was some, you know, restorative justice in it. But

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Jeremy Van Wert: what you what you talked about here is something that I have seen over and over and over again in my own career, where I have seen people

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Jeremy Van Wert: adapting to this model and becoming soldiers, people who at 1 point were

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Jeremy Van Wert: vibrant, promising young professionals, getting into a system that is bigger than they perceive as bigger than themselves, something with a big name, and in order to

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Jeremy Van Wert: climb inside that system they become that system, and in private conversations over a drink they might admit that it's all nonsense, but they 100% become agents of that large system, whether it is a police department or a hospital, or a government program, or even nonprofits, or whatever in order to climb up in it, they become

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Jeremy Van Wert: the the system itself and the system. When I say corrupt, there's various forms of corruption. There's moral corruption. There's financial corruption, there's power, corruption. There's all these sorts of things. But

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Jeremy Van Wert: as an example, this particular

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Jeremy Van Wert: professor that you're talking about is somebody who at a certain point, decided to compromise values in order to have the prestige

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Jeremy Van Wert: of a title of professor, which is something that is vaunted right.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And III see many people

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Jeremy Van Wert: chasing that prestige of the title and the money.

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Jeremy Van Wert: and they get there, and they're they either totally embrace it and become something different than they ever were, and kind of lose themselves.

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Jeremy Van Wert: or it eats them up inside, and they're counting the days until they can get out of that system because it's so unfulfilling, and it's so gray for them in their lives. And it's it's a way that they never thought that their lives would turn out. But there they are as agents of a large system. And unfortunately, I'm seeing

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Jeremy Van Wert: that that is the way for people to that people feel that they have to be in order to climb and be successful.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Yeah. And it's it's coming to a head because

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: because of the downsizing. There are some people who've retained their jobs through seniority, etc. But if you're mid career, career, profession like myself, I applied to many, many jobs that I was qualified and even overqualified for.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: but especially after Covid. It seems like people wanna hire someone they already know

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: right, and that they can rely upon. They can reliably fit into the system, as it were, right. So I think the fear created and anxiety created by Covid created this. This

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: we can fitness in China's around engaging new challenges as entrepreneurialism has been romanticized in the United States. I've never seen a le less entrepreneurial time than now.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: where people, at least on on a professional level.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: We're not completely unwilling to take a chance on someone who's qualified with new ideas, etc.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: So we're getting the ghettoization of people who are qualified. But they haven't already been plugged into the system or vetted by the system. And those people are wandering in the desert a bit, myself included.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And that's fine. I mean, I'm I'm I'm prepared for that. I understand that that comes with the Territory. Others are still wondering, and then there are the people in the system like you say.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: everyone I talk to says I'm not satisfied. I'm not fulfilled.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: We're not really doing the work we used to do before Covid like. Now, everything's being mechanized, and you know the human touch is being absolutely eliminated.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: you know, people are being outsourced. People are being

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: dumped, and then their job. Responsibilities are heaped on to the person that's left, I mean th. The Social Contract is completely gone. The the concentration of wealth

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: pensions, all that stuff benefits. All those things are beginning to kind of be optional. right? And we don't really have a government backing on that. So

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: so now we're we're put in this precarious position where we can't really go back

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: right. Covid Express exposed a lot of things, exposed our consumerism, exposed our shallowness, it exposed our precariousness.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: but it also opened the way for us to understand what we want. It got us outside right? It got us into a contemplative and reflective space by necessity.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Some people kind of moved on from that or drifted back into the unconsciousness

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: of that industrial, those industrial frameworks, and a lot of others. Even those still working in it are doing as you say. They're they're saying.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: I don't want to do this. I got another 9 years here. you know, if I'm gonna get full retirement and you almost I don't know if you've had that conversation I have with them just saying.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: what would you do with 9 years? If you didn't right. you know. What? What would you rather really

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: be willing to do? And what would you need in order to walk away from that. and a lot of them haven't thought a lot about it. you know. I probe a little bit more deeply, and I get some answers, and I've coached people on. How do you at least

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: start working on your passion, even if you're working within the system right like, how do you cultivate an understanding of that, develop some connections about that, develop a sub stack or Youtube channel, or some kind of outlet whereby you begin to make that transition.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: you know, and if you're the kind that doesn't want to let the Tarzan doesn't want to let go get grab one vine without letting go of the next one at least. How can you reach out to that next vine

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: in a way that's much more aligned with the person that you are at a at a base level.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: You know. I if if all the people that I've talked to on this, it's definitely more spiritual.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: People are tired of the corruption. They're tired of the lack. There's a great sociologist. I'm forgetting his name now. Ted, something, I think he calls them bullshit jobs where people admit that their job is not

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: producing not only any satisfaction for them, but any value for society. It's administ this managerial administrative culture that has taken over United States under a technocracy. And and the world

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: in which people are like just shoveling out papers. And they're getting their benefits. And whatever they're like, this is just junk.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: There's nothing here of value whatsoever, and that's becoming more and more prominent. So

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: the question then becomes, Well, what is of value?

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And that's a great philosophical question, and it's a great spiritual question. I've been listening to Epictetus, a stoic as well as Marcus Aurelius on tape

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: totally recommended to every10, my gosh! These are definitely messages, right from the time Ryan Holiday in, and his like

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: 5 min version of of these is not going to do it for you definitely hear these on tape as you're walking through the woods, and if you want your frequency to be lifted almost immediately.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and they talk about God as well as God's right. And and I'm also the other part that really lists me is Christian mysticism.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: I listen to Christian mysticism. And I read Christian mysticism because it really has to do with grounding yourself in a relationship, direct relationship with God or Spirit, and with that you can have spiritual confidence. Confidence means to trust with.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: So when I say spiritual confidence, I mean to trust with spirit

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: right

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and to trust with spirit means you have to spend some time in contemplation meditation, and you don't just do it in order to get rid of your anxieties and to blank your mind. Okay, you do to get in touch with the fibre, the integrity, and the fiber of the person you are commit that question, for instance, what would I really like to be doing.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Don't answer it too soon.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Take the time to sit in meditation, and see if any memory pops up from your childhood, or any impulse or anything comes in sideways.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: those will be little clues that are being offered up by your subconscious, your unconscious to to

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: give you a clue. What you cannot, cannot not be right. Those are the things you cannot avoid, that that has to do with your divine genius right here

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and again. Don't panic.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Yes, it's total. Yes, it's all you. Yes, your emotions are saying. But if I invest all of myself on this one thing, and this is the deepest and most complete and holistic sense of myself. What if it goes wrong when I'd be devastated? I won't have any other option

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: to which I would simply say, Well.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: you could not do that and then die. You cannot take the time, and then and don't make it so black and white. Okay, if you want to continue to keep your job, keep your job, but begin to spend the time and dedication here and realize it's what's leading your life.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: not what's following or what's being shoved to the side.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: So don't panic right. Take the time to explore. Take the time to have those moments of science and meditation. Take the time to let some of those childhood memories and joy's come forward

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and then use those to help inform learning how to learn right or in what you're saying, inspiring growth, igniting transformation. That to me is really the the match to that.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Until you take the time

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: to one, recognize that you have a divine genius, and that the spirit has to be the most central thing in your decision making and your development your soul development. And the second thing is to devote yourself to listening to it.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Now. Third and fourth and fifth steps are okay. Now you're listening to it, and it's

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: bringing up these joys and passions that you think I don't know anything about these things. How am I ever going to fit them in with family and everything else? Don't let that chatter happen.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: just continue to stay with it.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: continue to say, are, is there something simple I can do

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: to help me experience this joy? It means going to a meetup group

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: in that content area. It means calling up a friend, you know, is interested in the same thing and begin to say, I'm really passionate about this.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: I don't get to talk about it in my everyday life.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: but I'd like to kind of move more deeply into this. That's all that's required.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: You know Rome wasn't built in a day. The journey begins as a single step. These cliches apply here.

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Jeremy Van Wert: you know. and just about 10 min before you set it. I was thinking.

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Jeremy Van Wert: I really need to stop plugging the book. Bullshit jobs, because, I say it in every single, podcast it's so it's it's so. It was so formative and changing for me. And I remember reading that book and realizing.

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Jeremy Van Wert: I think I just learned more about the job that I have right now than any training that I've ever received in the job that I have right now. And it was. It was a real eye opener.

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Jeremy Van Wert: particularly in the Confines, and this was published well before the pandemic. But the pandemic has changed consciousness

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Jeremy Van Wert: in

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Jeremy Van Wert: in our world, in the professional world, especially

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Jeremy Van Wert: because before

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Jeremy Van Wert: there was just simply this kind of concept of the Social contract that you build your career. you might job, hop a little bit, but a lot of people had this idea. If you stay with the company, the company will eventually take care of you. But this

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Jeremy Van Wert: there seems to be awakening. An awakening with regard to that corruption that you were talking about this concept, that you, as a person, are just simply really a tool

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: or a big

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Jeremy Van Wert: entity.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: So this entity, by the way, one dedicated towards some kind of usually material or power, advancement

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and concentration. But no, I mean it. It it in its advertisement. It says we're going to make the a better world. But then you look.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and it's not making a better world. It's making a worse one.

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Jeremy Van Wert: Yeah, I'm just sitting here, and I'm thinking of all of the companies that I could list off right now that that's exactly what it is, you know.

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Jeremy Van Wert: and through the pandemic, I think there was this awakening where people started.

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Jeremy Van Wert: maybe having some time to think

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Jeremy Van Wert: a little bit more about their lives and about what they really want. And people started new creative pursuits and realized that they enjoyed those things, and they hadn't been engaging in them. And I've had that very conversation that you were talking about with people where they're saying, Well, gosh! I've got 9 years left doing this thing that I hate.

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Jeremy Van Wert: and then I'll get a pension. And so and I'm thinking 10 years is a long time. And do you think that pension is actually going to be there.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: I mean, if everything goes way up.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: you know, and because it's a

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: anytime cause we we had this we call it the Dead Greek society. It was kind of a play on the Dead Poets society, and the first had to do with instrumental versus intrinsic.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: If you are instrumental in the way that you engage your life, you will get burned.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Even when you succeed, you're going to fail. Okay, even if you get that pension. You've lost those 9 years, right.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: etc. And II wouldn't bet on it. Not the way economies are going now. All these promises can be thrown out the window tomorrow.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: So living an intrinsic life. That's where you and that's the life of virtue. That's where you do it for the value of the thing in itself, not for what it can get you.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Okay? So that's the intrinsic way of living.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And what we have in industrial society is everything is instrumental, like you say, humans themselves are disposable tools. Right? Here's a question I would ask you, Jeremy, because because you've done so much research on these bullshit jobs, it's an interesting philosophical question. I'd like to get your view on it.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: since people recognize these jobs are bullshit right? And even the companies themselves kind of recognize their bullshit. Why do they persist? What function do they serve if they don't serve a substantive

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: life-enhancing function?

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Jeremy Van Wert: Okay?

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Jeremy Van Wert: So I think the answer to that is simply, people going? Well, what the hell else am I supposed to be doing?

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: People going? Well, I've got this job. I'm making 6 figures. I can cover my rent. What am I supposed to do?

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Jeremy Van Wert: And that perpetuates the engagement in. And II have. I've worked with a number of people

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Jeremy Van Wert: who will admit that they don't work very hard. They make a tremendous salary.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: They work maybe

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Jeremy Van Wert: 15 to 20 HA week for a big name

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Jeremy Van Wert: company and their they're they're kind of dying inside, because they see that they don't really have any value. But they go well. Am I just supposed to quit? I mean, II work 15 HA week. It's pretty cool. I ride my bike a lot, and I just think, well, if you are working 15 HA week, do you think your company doesn't know that? Do you think that they're going to

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Jeremy Van Wert: when time to cut comes around? Not look at the people they know are not really putting in full value for them. You're not as secure as you think you are, and I think that people still are running under this concept, that.

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Jeremy Van Wert: But they are. They are secure in in these jobs. But we're seeing more and more people just get Friday afternoon notices that they no longer have a job, and that company is so nice they're going to pay you for an extra 3 months to go find a new job, and then it takes you 8 months to locate something

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Jeremy Van Wert: that that is reason the salary to do. Yeah. Yeah.

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Jeremy Van Wert: So II think your question is about, why is it perpetuating? I think that there's been enough training in

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Jeremy Van Wert: this industrial model that it's very, very difficult for somebody to make a switch and go. Well, what if I based my livelihood on a completely different idea. What if I downsized everything? I did something that I liked? Maybe I became self employed. Maybe I got a job with a

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Jeremy Van Wert: organization that I really do trust. And I don't live in this area. I live in this area instead, or or what have you? I think that there is

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Jeremy Van Wert: a sense that that would be admitting some kind of defeat, because we have

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Jeremy Van Wert: a sense of what success is and is not, which I am hoping is starting to have cracks in it right now. because I think people are generally dealing with feeling a strong sense of not being fulfilled.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Yeah. And I think there's a notion of sound cost. You know this from your counseling background, which is, I put this much into it. you know, if I leave now. I won't get X amount of retirement, or I don't know what else to do, you know, or the whole idea is that there's an investment of identity, messment of worth, investment of value. There's a momentum sometimes there's even seniority and other things that come with it.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: But I would challenge that basis and have challenged it in my own counseling practice. I'm saying

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: the evidence is the fruit right?

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: The fruit of this work is what it's a bullshit job that you and even maybe the company you do don't believe it actually does much.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And you're personally unfulfilled. So literally, it has 0 or even negative value.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Do you have enough respect for yourself and enough integrity to at least one? Admit that.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and 2 realize that that is a negative situation. What you're calling, stability and security

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: is the same securities that death offers right

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: motionless. Jesus.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Okay, in this case it's soul death, or it's moral death.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: or it's death of your vital life spirit and your talent, which is being wasted right.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And that has been true of men. Men have had to confront this earlier, and I in transforming economy. By the way, I have all kinds of alternatives to how to

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: do that radical downsizing you're talking about that radical, non violent civil disobedience and unplugging from the system. But in that spirit, confident man. I talk about

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: how we, as men, can begin to unplug from this kind of patriarchal, domineering situation in a non judgmental non shame based way. This ridiculous

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: me, too, is kind of metastasized into something you can't even recognize anymore. But the whole point is.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And I say this in my book I said, as you age spiritually, this is your time. because men

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: have based their worth professionally in the industrial system, but they base the worth personally right in physical vitality. sexual conquest, marrying someone, a third your age, whatever it happened to be.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And I'm like saying, Nope.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: as you age

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and some of this physicalness is dropping away at least the vigor and some of the sort of attention and centrality that bit bends to drop away. Now your spirit can advance forward.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Now you can begin to say, Hey, what's just here?

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: What's virtuous here?

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: I want to be a good man in that sense of virtue, not a good man in terms of social acclaim, in terms of reputation, salary, etc. So what does that look like, and fact is, we don't usually have those kinds of discussions.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: We don't have them in our classrooms. Now you will have it if you take a class with me. I focus on the virtues. You know. My S. My, in the book I talked my 7 C's. The ones I do in my class are slightly different. There's a lot of overlap.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: The most important ones are courage, which is usually a conservative principle.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: compassion, which is usually considered liberal, and creativity, which is usually considered progressive. Okay? And then there's curiosity. conscience, capability, and critical mindedness.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: right? Those are the kinds of things that allow us to be savvy in the world.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: but based here right as well as caring for others.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And all of those things have been neglected because they don't need to be attended to in an industrial system an industrial grid system. All those needs are supposed to be taken care of by the engineering of the system, not with human care.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And now we're beginning to realize that if we submit to that system as your clients have and people you've talked with, have

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: you dehumanize yourself because it is a dehumanizing system you are subjecting and agreeing to your own dehumanization and de-spiritualization.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and the fact that you feel low and unfulfilled is a good thing just like when your health is down. You're feeling sickness or pain is a good thing.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: It's a sign that you're going the wrong direction

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: right, and that you ought to try other directions. You need to get healthier. You need to get simpler. You need to start withdrawing from those things that drain you

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: that make your in that, that that you find worthless, that that stress, your integrity

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and those aren't that difficult to identify. Here's the problem, though

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: most people who identify those things about their work, their friendships, maybe even their marriages, because relationships have have really been strained by Covid, too.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: They if they were honest, they'd say, Listen, I'd rather be ignorant, because if I actually become aware of these things and do as you're saying, zoos.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: then then I can't take it back right then it's on the table. It's real. I've got to deal with it.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and I don't really want to deal with it. I'd rather remain unconscious because

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: I think it's gonna take too much out of me to to meet the truth of my situation.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And I also can say to someone like that, is this

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: one? It will always go more poorly for you

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: in the end. If you don't become honest and transparent with yourself now

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and 2, you don't have to do it in a dramatic all or nothing way.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: You can literally bring it out on the table, recognize it, feel the pain of it, feel some of the ambiguity and con conflicts you have around it.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Be honest about those. and then simply say.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: here's what I have energy enough to do with. Now I recognize all of you right. I recognize I can't take care of all of you. At the same time. They're sitting on this table.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: but

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: one I will deny none of you. I accept and honor all of you, the truth of all of you.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and 2 to say, okay

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: in my life. Right now I'm gonna take a little courage step.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and that one or 2 things that are on the table that I feel like I can comfortably do something with, but that still stretches me a little bit right still pulls me in the direction out of my stupor. My, my my moral, my moral morass!

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: That adds meaning to my life, joy to me. care or benefit to someone else. I'm going to do it. And what I'm seeing is there is. And I seem this in my own son. He's 15 years old. He's really, really getting into church.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: you'd think, oh, like, you know, with all the kids on their phones and everything he likes the Bible he likes getting I this he did independent of me.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: I literally is at a Greek Orthodox church here as a festival in the fall, about a month after we moved here to in Ohio. and he wanted a cross.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and, you know, got one of those nicely inlaid ones, a Greek looking cross, and he wears it on the outside of his shirt. I didn't. I didn't do that. There's nothing in his life that did that. There's there's this energy rising

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: right of dedication, of spirituality. of sacredness. And I can see it in him

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: right? So even if it's in your daily life be sacred to that one or 2 things that you put on that table.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: as if it were going to some kind of sacred service. As they were going, attending to some serious thing like church or whatever. Okay? And then, you know.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: if it's if it's volunteering, go ahead and volunteer.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: you know if you love animals, and you really miss animals, and maybe your dog just died, or whatever. And you're thinking oh, I missed that. And then one of the things on the table is, I'd like to volunteer at an animal shelter. Then go ahead and do that.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: You know you say I don't have a lot of time, maybe just a couple hours a week. Then just do those 2 HA week. The whole point is this, we need to regain that spiritual confidence and practical confidence in ourselves. Again.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: that discerning thing that we tend to override

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: right? This is what I really want to do. This is what I really feel. But

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: I have to do this, and I have to do that in my book and in some of the interviews done. It's the problem of the urgent versus the important right? So the urgent always swallows up all your time. I gotta do this. I gotta drop the kids off. I gotta do this. I gotta do that.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: In fact, I tell people go ahead and put a line right in the middle of a paper and put

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: basically what's most important to me in the first column.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Alright, and then just list all the things faith, family, community, those kind of things come up. And then what I did yesterday, right? Or if you didn't do much yesterday, was that sad with them? What you did in last couple of days?

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And you're gonna see this huge difference? Right? You're gonna see a bunch of usually fairly menial tasks that are just.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: you know, taking the kids to school, doing this and that. Well, you know, scrolling through social media, etc., etc.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And and over here gonna have faith, family community, you know, etc. And you're gonna like, why am I not spend any time over here?

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And the important side versus the versus the urgent side? Right?

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And it's something even just that simple. And they say, Okay, I'm going to dedicate myself to do some work here.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: even just a couple hours a week doing it consistently.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and and that what you're doing is sending a powerful message to yourself, your soul and yourself

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: I

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: am advocating, and I am directing attention and effort toward you.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: I am not simply going to be swallowed by the system. and it works better if you can have a small community people around you who are trying to do the same thing. It's really really hard to do just on your own.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And you know, Jeremy, you calling me up out of the blue example of that where 2 or more gathered right.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: you know. possibilities begin to magnify in an exponential way. because your ideas affect me. My background and influence affects you. Us having a conference section can be shared with your audience.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And you know, we that's how changes are made. That's how we learn to transform. We don't do it on our own. But we have to start from that position and make that choice.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: II love the way you talk, because I feel like, okay, he's filling up this bucket. I'm gonna ask about this bucket. Then you start filling up the next bucket, and I'm like, well, I have to ask about the first bucket. There's the second bucket and feel free. I'm I'm I'm in your hands now. II feel like I've laid out the framework from where I'm coming from. So let's get into examples. No problem.

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Jeremy Van Wert: something that I read on your sub stack. And it was about.

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Jeremy Van Wert: I can't remember how you you phrased it, but it is essentially about the cult like thinking that is so prevalent now, and people want to belong to a thing. And the the little bit that I have anecdotally kind of come across. Is that

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Jeremy Van Wert: a lot of times? What happens when people come to belong to a thing is that they surrender some part of their personal power to be a part of that thing, often kind of see

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Jeremy Van Wert: the softening of men as they join a larger faith community, because they all become very obedient and very kind, and very generous, and very all of these things, but also

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Jeremy Van Wert: kind of I don't know

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Jeremy Van Wert: wimpy. And so it becomes less of a

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: place that a lot of guys want to go because they say, well, people in faith, communities are wimpy guys when there's a lot of strength that a person needs to gain from a sense of spirituality. And so

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Jeremy Van Wert: when when you're talking about things that people belong to. It's not just churches. There's

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Jeremy Van Wert: giant wavelengths that people are grabbing onto right now, and I'm talking about in the political world, the media world, the the health world and everything like that, that people are choosing one side or the other side, as if there are only 2 sides to this whole thing.

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Jeremy Van Wert: and they become cultists of that

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Jeremy Van Wert: ideology, or political ideal, or

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Jeremy Van Wert: conspiracy theory, or or whatever it is. That that there is. And then they start building identity around that. And it's it's a false identity that feels very much like a full identity, because they

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Jeremy Van Wert: kind of rabbit hole themselves and research things that agree with themselves, and then they have fully developed themselves into somebody who hates this other group. For this reason. And it's it's exceedingly shallow.

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Jeremy Van Wert: And and it's it's not just prevalent.

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Jeremy Van Wert: It's it's affecting communities. It's affecting family relationships. It's affecting people's relationship with themselves and their past and their parents and their kids, and and and all of this in its in its

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Jeremy Van Wert: run, by the compunction that people have to feel right and believe in

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Jeremy Van Wert: a dogma of some kind.

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Jeremy Van Wert: and it feels to me like there is a

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Jeremy Van Wert: powerful

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Jeremy Van Wert: system of an elite level in our Western world that is, using this in order to make a society

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Jeremy Van Wert: complicit and obedient to

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Jeremy Van Wert: things that that that they a world designed that they want and so the individual

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: it's very very difficult to be free

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Jeremy Van Wert: and and to be free. You have to think as an individual, act as an individual, and oftentimes that gets people into trouble. So it's a whole lot easier to adapt.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And so II know that you've written a lot about this, and so kind of wh, what are you thinking with this?

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Well, here, I mean.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: there was an interview I did with with Regina Meredith on this. Where, I said, there's a new technology emerging where people's idealism which really is oriented from a sincere place toward the betterment of the world is being used against them.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: They being they're. It's like a grooming. They they draw you into idealism like sustainability. For instance, right

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Earth sustainability, right? Who who could disagree with that, you know, on our mother earth?

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And then they have a few things like Oh, you know, let's do alternative fuels and solar, etc., etc. Then, before you know it. they're creating climate alarmism which science does not support right.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: They're creating 15 min cities which have surveillance attached to them that are going to control your behavior right and control access to your bank accounts, etc., if you don't do the right thing, quote unquote environmentally.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And and so what? Your idealism, which was this world of people coming together across differences in order to help our survival and thriving into the future, has become

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: A hook

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and a manipulation tool by this larger, technocratic. well, very small, actually but powerful technocratic system. And the people who represent it, like the World Economic Forum.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: to control people's behavior.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: to make all human beings essentially cogs of a part of a of a technocratically designed machine, a soulless machine

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: built around. I don't even know what the value is, because you saw the response to Covid. They literally got everything wrong. This supposed. you know.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: AI enhanced machine. It got everything wrong, you know, with the vaccines didn't stop transmission. They didn't stop in fiction. Masks didn't work, you know. It goes on and on and on, you know. Vaccines now are finding, especially with young people. The damages are far outweighing any kind of benefits, and then they say, Well, this is a reason why you have to give us even more power. I'm like you just literally failed and killed

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: millions of people with your interventions.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: say nothing of the poverty, to say nothing of people stuck at home in abusive environments, away from school away from food, right? The free lunch programs. It was one of the is the greatest human, right, human.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: comprehensive human rights tragedy by far in the history of the world period.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: all of it generated by this group of people who is now trying to use right you and my, our idealism right to create a Utopia. I'm like.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Hmm! I saw in the last 2 years the so-called Utopia you created, and it was exactly the opposite. It was dystopian in every shape and form.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: It was inhumane, it was careless. it was. What did I put here? Mindless?

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Right

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: it. Trillions and trillions of dollars went to the top few 100 people in the world

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: huge concentration of wealth. So your vision of the good world is one in which I'm obedient.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Remember, there was that that phrase in one of the commercials for the World Economic Forum. You will own nothing and be happy

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: literally. That's what it said. You will own nothing and be happy. We will control everything. You'll rent everything from us.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And oh, by the way, if you do something we don't like, you won't be able to rent, you won't be able to get food. You won't be able to get a place to stay. So that's where your freedom emphasis comes on.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: We have to exert freedom, though at this individual level one of the best ways we can do this

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: going to our earlier talking is to free ourselves from the habits and norms

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: in which we've agreed to be obedient to this society. we need to positively rebel nonviolently

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: civil, disobediently rebel against this in my book transforming economies. Say, what's going to stop young people from moving in together? Own a house. own a group house?

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: group meals right?

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: You don't have to be a Communist or Socialist to do that. You can be a communitarian, a person who believes in community right? I'm not a big fan of social, especially, it's Marx's forms today, you know.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: the the ersatz pseudomarx is whatever you want to call it today. all all of which are supporting that technocratic agenda of control over people so become creative.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Realize your time is the one thing you can't take back. So how can you maximize your time to be creative.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: How can you be together with other people in such a way that you help each other? Take care of the necessities of life, and free up even more time to be creative

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and have these kind of conversations. So in my ideal world. we wouldn't be identifying with nonprofits and movements like Greta Turnberg. Okay, because those are all being manipulated.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: What we do is decentralize

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and localize our efforts. Okay? And in that

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: we have to get real about what we really want to do in the world, and we have to get really real about supporting other people. If you are family members

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: right, they have extra money. and you have someone developing a new business or a talent invest in that new business or talent. Okay? Well, I don't know. But my pension is, and I'm I'm like.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Dude. What's important here? Just like my son, I would say, go back to a spiritual environment, reinvigorate your spiritual life. even if it means. You know, a church is even someone industrial.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Make the effort to to recover your moral fiber. to get some instruction right.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And you know,

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: I think the Bible is a good source. I mean, obviously. some of it's allegorical. And if you read it literally, you're going to be in big trouble. But find things that raise your frequency. I like to listen to classical music when I'm when I'm walking that raises my frequency. I like to listen to

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Marcus Aurelius and Epictetus, the Stoics on, you know, on my, on my on my iphone, as I'm as I'm

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: actually cleaning the basement I was doing. I'm I was cleaning my sister's basement.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: So 5. That's a that's a super simple way to do it right.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: You're doing something that would be normally mindless.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Put something mindful on. Okay. like Marcus Aurelius or Epictetus.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And while you're doing it, learn.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: raise your frequency. So there we need to. We need to do that rebellion. We need to do that unplugging. And we need to find specific, simple ways together and individually

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: to devote ourselves to things that are and create the alternative.

389

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: It's not that difficult. No, we probably can't imagine it. But the number one thing I would say for the what we're experiencing and what you identified right now

390

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: is do not buy into the idealistic programs. I'm Vegan. I'll give you another example. I'm Vegan, right?

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: works for me spiritually. The reason why I was Vegan and I stopped drinking as well, Tiknhan said. We'll have a little bit of alcohol and see how it affects you. And I found that alcohol got between me and my spirit just very, very slightly or moderately.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: But I'm like, I don't need it. I choose to wanna have that stronger relationship with spirit. So I got rid of drinking the same with Vegan. I mean, II saw a movie called Conspiracy. That affected me a little bit.

393

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: but I tried it, and I found that again my my relationship with my body, my relationship with my spirit was enhanced by this diet, and I am stridently against Bill Gates Foundation, WF. And there saying, Eat less meat.

394

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: I am very much for decentralized family farms that make eggs and meat for people who are still eating meat. I far prefer that than the synthetic meat that they're trying to get at, and the genetically modified things that they're trying to sneak

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: under the door of Veganism. I ain't buy it. That's why I am a I am I. I'm a strident supporter of family farming.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: right? I know that that in the end is going to be better for everyone, and you don't just go ahead and cut off meat altogether. Okay, you eat healthy meat. You create local economies. You do farm to table type of restaurant tearing and and farmers markets. That's how you get healthy, right? You don't. You don't say, Oh, we need to eat less meat, and you know, do they thought about eating bugs? They make jokes about that, but they literally have talked about grinding up and using insect protein.

397

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: You know, it's it's it's almost getting like soylent green. It's just you'd think that these guys

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: are are joking

399

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: right? Like this is some parody. But it's not. These guys really believe in this, you know. Climate change.

400

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: we're raising about a tenth of a degree per decade.

401

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: It is not a crime and emergency. It's changing. Some of it's human-induced, but not a lot. More people die from the cold.

402

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: There's more green space actually happening now, as a result of the increased. So again, you know, the actual real world outcome much like the omicron variant right when it came along, it was like the best vaccine you could get was omicron.

403

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: You get, you get infected. You have cold like symptoms.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: You know you're truly you're truly projected at that point, you know. So we're being taught

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: by the

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: spectacular failures of these would be social architects, these technocrats. and by our own hearts and our own lack of meaning. Right? That we need to start putting the important

407

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: over the hysterical.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Okay, do not allow yourself to respond in fear. Always ask the question, what are they trying to gain by making me afraid? Okay, first of all, are they trying to make me afraid, or they? Are they offering something that I can make an independent value on.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Well, vaccine mandates aren't asking. They're not allowing you to have a choice at all

410

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: right. They're saying you have to do this in order, and it looks like in Hollywood. There's one studio that wants to force people to wear a mask again. Just saw that the other day.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Obviously, it's just a control point we know at this point the Cochrane view shows that masks

412

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: don't do any good, and in fact, they can do harm, especially on bacteria infections, because of the way that you have it around here. So again, the truth as a way of poking up

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: right, it's it's coming forward.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and the truth right now is we can't go back.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: We cannot trust. It's not that we can't trust our leaders. We can trust our leaders, we can trust them to use us and to fail us. Okay, so what I've done here's another good example

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: is one of the most powerful things that I've done. When I was still out in California. There's a group called Moms for Liberty. Considered politically conservative. I'm way supposedly left. I went to door to door for Bernie Sanders. Right when I was when he had the primary in California. Okay, but I'm I'm very much in line with core conservative values, right faith, family integrity, responsibility, etc. Okay? And I'm certainly in line with reality being reality based. Now, there's a term called based

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: versus woke. I think it's short for reality based. Right? So I mean, I'm reality based as well. I believe, in science and reality based. And so

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: so when in this month for Liberty thing, when it was clear that masks are impeding

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: cognitive intellectual development of children, that it was unnecessary.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: We gained a coalition with moms for liberty to get masks outside of the plaster county schools, we said, and it was successful and all I have. You know, it happened a few weeks, maybe a month before

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: before they were relenting on the State level. But it was an important achievement.

422

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And what I'm finding even someone like Alex Jones considered like like the far right Weirdo conspiracy theories he's advocating, he says. Don't let them go to you into violent response.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Always make sure it's nonviolent civil disobedience. I'm like Alex Jones is saying that.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: you know. So we're having a convergence. The realignment is happening from the top down, bottom up. That's the realignment people on the bottom are not going to be split up.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: You know, culture wars against each other now, they're beginning to realize, not especially there. We're finally getting a class consciousness here, classes finally entering the conversation. You're allowed to talk about race all you want. You're allowed to talk about sex, all you want and transgender, and all this and that. But don't talk about class. Don't talk about the working class, and what interests you might have with the middle class. What interests you maybe have, you know, across racial, you know, and and gender etc. lines.

426

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and that that new song by Oliver Anthony that became a complete sensation.

427

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Ban banjo.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and there is. I'm I'm seeing a realignment here.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: I'm I'm seeing common cause between

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: working class conservatives and working class Liberals and Progressives, realizing who who is really, I wouldn't say their enemy, but their adversary right? It's not each other right.

431

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And I see an overwhelming comment by people saying, both parties are corrupt.

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: you know, because they're controlled by the small group of people you know, as as you're talking, I'm thinking about real life examples of you know you can. You can. You can

433

Jeremy Van Wert: count the veracity of a perspective when you see it play out over time, and I'm sitting here in a little town in California called Forest Hill, and what you can't see is that I have these giant windows in front of my desk right here, and I look out into the forest.

434

Jeremy Van Wert: The forest was burned last year in a fire called the Mosquito Fire, and it happened a year ago in a week. and I'm looking out on a forest that is totally black, and the and the trees are sticks, and they're standing there, and if I had my window open you would hear chainsaws because they're having to take all of them down and replant them.

435

Jeremy Van Wert: It was a devastating fire

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Jeremy Van Wert: now, back in the 19 eighties, Forest Hill was a logging town, and it was owned by a number of private interests, and they were logging the forest. And what have you? And you know

437

Jeremy Van Wert: I don't know enough about it to know whether there was this kind of clear cut practice going on. Perhaps that was something that was going on, but the Sierra Club

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Jeremy Van Wert: got involved in many different precincts of California and the West to stop the logging entirely, and what they found was that there was an endangered owl, the spotted owl that was living in the trees. And so what happened was they shut down all logging

439

Jeremy Van Wert: period, and so the industry of logging in Forest Hill, and many of these small logging towns was overnight just gone, and people moved out of these small towns. And then what happened is the underbrush just started to grow. So what you see around in these large areas is the underbrush is so thick that you can't walk

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Jeremy Van Wert: 3 feet into a National forest, because it's full of manzanita, and it's full of bush and dead things. And then they're they're

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Jeremy Van Wert: planting all the same trees like ponderosa pines. And so if one tree gets a disease, all the trees are susceptible to that, because you don't have a well balanced forest with

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Jeremy Van Wert: different types of trees, cedar trees, sequoia trees, these different kinds of trees. It's a it's an emaciated

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Jeremy Van Wert: under managed forests, because the native Americans who lived here they used to burn every number of years, they would burn these forests to keep them, so that the animals could actually walk through them, that they could hunt them, that the forests were actually healthy. So what comes through these California wildfires and these different wildfires

444

Jeremy Van Wert: are just absolutely devastating. And the economic impact of these fires because you have these forests that are liter nuclear bombs

445

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: that that get started because a transformer blows up or something like that, they, they, they absolutely create so much harm for an environment that

446

Jeremy Van Wert: go ahead and and provide the Sierra Club with the greatest and noble intention. They wanted a cleaner environment. But the result of these policies was this, and I'm looking right now at Cbs news, the the deadly cargo ship fire the burning vessel. Did you hear about this this cargo ship that was carrying 500 electric vehicles

447

Jeremy Van Wert: and electric vehicles. They're they're they're great, they they're great for people who live in cities and commute small distances, and the technology is relatively new, and they sometimes catch fire. They could not get this fire stopped. 500 burning electric cars on a container ship in the North Sea they had to sink

448

Jeremy Van Wert: the ship to stop the fire. and so now this container ship is at the bottom of the ocean. With all of these batteries in it that had been on fire. And I cannot imagine. How do you? How do you ever clean that up? How do you measure the environmental degradation of something like that. The point I'm trying to make is that it? It really really is the case that we swing in these wide directions in order to try to solve a problem, and there becomes this

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Jeremy Van Wert: this side versus this side, very binary.

450

Thing that you're either on this side of this

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Jeremy Van Wert: very important issue, or you're on this side of this important issue and in the middle you're not right because you haven't chosen aside. So this is this, this incredible simplicity and duality of

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Jeremy Van Wert: how do you solve? For you know, environmental degradation, particularly when it's not exactly clear to me

453

Jeremy Van Wert: how serious

454

Jeremy Van Wert: things are because of how how much mistrust I've come to have in the information that there, in the conventional information that there is out there about just generally things.

455

Jeremy Van Wert: So you know, you know ultimately, as as you're as you're talking here, I'm thinking about the simplicity that is created in the obedience model, and that you're really going for that. Can everybody please just stand up and think for themselves? Can you please.

456

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: develop your spirit and understand the world as more than this versus that, and act on that. Well, this is where the safetyism that comes along there is toxic femininity as well as masculinity, and one of the forms toxic femininity happens is around safetyism and retreat.

457

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: I think it's founded on the desire for mother to protect her child from you know predators, or whatever it happens to be. You know any kind of danger in the world, but if it's done overly much.

458

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: what it does is it creates a retreat in the face of any kind of challenge, because all challenges have potential threats to them.

459

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and I think that same safetyism and a aspect of toxic femininity has pervaded many of our institutions. Right? That we're now saying something offensive or something that someone takes offense to is a quote unquote attack

460

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: right? A. A. A. They've warped the notion of challenge to meme

461

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: or difference

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: or disagreement to mean you're against me.

463

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Techn, I think, repeated this. I think it's a Buddhist saying I'm not sure, but said, why cover the earth with leather when you can learn to wear shoes?

464

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Right? So we have a situation now. both on the right and left, in which people are trying to cover the world with leather and force. Other people.

465

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: according to their own way of doing things. And they're they're failing spectacularly right.

466

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: But what does it do for those people that go along?

467

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: It does create a cheap and I think temporary coherence

468

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: that at least we're trying to do something. But Hippocratic oath says, first do no harm. and all these in interventions, and Covid is a spectacularly unfortunately.

469

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: a

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: shining or or disastrous example of this.

471

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: When you do something just to say you've done something. you probably make things worse.

472

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: You need to be patient. You need to try small things. You need to say where they're going. You need to experiment, and you have to be very truthful with the results. If you rush things, if you force things, especially force other people to make certain choices, don't respect their freedom and autonomy. If you make things narrow and monolithic where everyone has to follow the same path.

473

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Then something goes wrong with that. Everybody, everything blows up. Everyone's affected

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: the much I've I've given this talk many times back when I was in a writers retreat. I gave this talk on a local radio show. This is. I don't know. 20 years ago or so. 15 years.

475

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: I said. You know nature really has the recipe for us. It has 3 things that we need to pay attention to distinctness. diversity, and exchange

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: in all of its natural systems. A healthy holistic system

477

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: requires distinctness. Distinctness means that you and I have that divine genius. Right? You you and I have that unique thing to offer into society, into culture, into nature, right?

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And that's our distinctness. Without that distinctness we do not have that vital power from which to generate

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: energy, creativity, product productivity. Okay?

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And that means we need difference. Right?

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: We need difference. Everything is created. All energy is created by difference in a battery difference between the positive pole and the negative pole. Right?

482

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Ions going between that create a current in our bodies, adp and adps, exchanging ions across the semipermeable membrane.

483

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: So instead of seeing these as threats or 2 different sides that are fighting each other, why don't we say it's necessary for us to be different, necessary for us to be distinct.

484

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: III disagree people on all kinds of things, Biblical literalism, abortion whatever I'm like, I am glad you know I am glad you think as you do. because you're different than I do. I honor the necessity of that, and I honor that you think differently, and I'm glad for it.

485

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Right? That's real diversity

486

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: that allows people not to get into monolithic

487

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: modes of thinking right if they can truly begin to decide and take nuanced views themselves. We have

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Zeus Yiamouyiannis: we have a rainforest. Rainforest is so amazing cause it only has diversity along the along the forest floor, but has diversity 3. Dimensionally, as you go up into the canopy, there's diversity there. Those are the strongest, best holistic environments.

489

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and we need to encourage that to real diversity, not this die, which is the opposite, this corporate monolithic

490

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: ESG.

491

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: De Diversity. Equity, inclusion is the opposite of that I grew up, being a strong advocate of diversity, equity, and inclusion, real diversity, equity, inclusion. What this corporate craft is doing is the exact opposite.

492

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: You know you know your mom might have concern for a kid once that child, to avoid paying. But guess what happens when you have a kid that's allergic to peanuts or has some, and you remove them from that. And furthermore, you remove peanuts from any environment which is just a disastrous policy. Guess what happens to them?

493

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Their allergy gets worse.

494

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Guess what happens when they have systematic targeted exposure to it.

495

Jeremy Van Wert: Their allergy gets better. Hmm, okay.

496

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: So use that specific example socially instead of saying, oh, we're protecting you from mean speech, etc., etc. We need to expose people to real challenges and real differences and views.

497

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and engage them to actually learn from and respect that other person.

498

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and not the least of which is their different view, helps. You have a better understanding of your own.

499

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: not against them.

500

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: But in you like, what do I really believe about here by honoring and recognizing respecting their fundamental ethics and beliefs that give rise to their positions and feelings

501

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: you actually honor your own. It was a great thing in Epictetus today I was just listening to. He says.

502

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: why would you dishonor yourself or injure yourself

503

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: by injuring that other person are going against thing or attacking them. You are dissolving and corrupting yourself. Why would you basically engage in that kind of suicidal behavior. Really important point, Epictetus, you know.

504

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: couple of 1,000 years ago, you know. And that's exactly right. And there's a reverse of that which he doesn't talk about. But I've been committed for my life is.

505

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: how do you honor the other person? Well, I honor them by wanting them to be different by wanting me to be different than me, by wanting them to disagree with me

506

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: right to be authentic to who they are. And I mean we've talked about this in terms of relationships.

507

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: freedom and love. There was a recent Marcus Aubrey when they talked about Gilbert talked about freedom and love, right.

508

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: love being the thing that sense to do this unify, and freedom does the thing that does this, and that the whole art of living is to bring freedom them up together. where you can be as diverse and distinct as possible.

509

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and you can exchange that with each other to create a really interesting ecosystem. and through that exchange create this sense of unity.

510

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: It's not a unity that's created by intervention and a top-down imposition of technocratic controls. It's a unity that says.

511

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: as we go through this journey of difference. as I agree and disagree with you respectfully.

512

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and as I accept you as you are okay.

513

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: know, try to shout you down or try to win.

514

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: You know we find that we actually have a common human or spiritual root.

515

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Right respectful dialogue, respectful disagreement allows us to understand our common humanity. whereas, retreating from that or condemning someone, prevents that common humanity from being recognized.

516

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: So there's a whole. We need a whole scale inversion, where we invite challenge, conflict and engagement and exposure.

517

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: right where we understand that honoring someone is learning from them

518

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and contributing from our distinct thing. That's where the exchange comes in.

519

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Obviously, in the forest the the healthiest forest

520

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: have a lot of distinctness. Lot of niches right nicely occupied, a lot of diversity, different forms of life, different parts of the canopy, and, of course, just like with our own oxygen, carbon dioxide exchange system, you need exchange of that difference to create vitality, energy, and creativity.

521

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: So so here we are doing the opposite of all those

522

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: right. And in doing so we're killing ourselves.

523

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Those are the necessities of life on the basic level.

524

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Instead, we're creating a monolithic cultures. Guess what happens when you have monolithic corn cultures, hybrid corn cultures, they get a little disease just like you said with the trees

525

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: the whole thing is gone.

526

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: You need that diversity, right? You need. And you need distinctness. You need people having

527

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: very unique authentic views out there to help, enliven

528

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and and create a fecundity

529

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: in in the world of ideas. You know.

530

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: if we had a truly education system, that honored distinctness which is how I try to teach. We wouldn't see learning disabled, because that's one of the things I specialize as learning disabled. We see them as

531

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: as and they are. They're hyper processors a lot of times. They're more intelligent than the average, but we don't have the box to handle it. So we treat it as a disability right? And we shunt them into special rooms when I tutor. I don't. I say you have a hyper ability, and we're going to through conversation. Figure out what it is your genius is, and how you can connect it with. You know the tests and things. And so they get to recognize both their special way of thinking and develop that.

532

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And they're able to translate it in such a way that they can do okay in school.

533

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: or even very well in schools.

534

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: In fact, they tend to do very well, and in a very accelerated way. Most often the problem is that things are too slow for them. Right? So engage in a really rich environment. I've I use what I call a conversation based way to do it. Conversation with your own thinking. Conversation with me, the tutor. Conversation with the problem. What is the problem telling you? If it's a math problem how to solve it.

535

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Right? What does that X that X doesn't want to be by itself? How do you get it by itself? Right? I even get them into into a conversation with the test makers. How are they trying to trick you?

536

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: How this test maker's constructing this problem to get you to make a careless mistake and think you got the right answer on a multiple choice test. So that's a kind of awareness. Would that

537

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: people, some people call it. Meta. Awareness, right awareness of awareness, learning how to learn is meta learning, right learning how to learn. So we we need to start doing that. And on the most important level, spiritual.

538

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: We need meta spirituality. Right? What is this spirit? What is the spirit teaching me, telling me what to do? How do I share it with? How do I develop it myself and share it with others?

539

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And you know that can be enhanced by some institutional things. But there's going to be a limit to that. I'm finding that limitation. I don't know about you

540

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: just like with the jobs, the limitations at other institutions. But I still honor them. for try it.

541

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and and I don't care how humble a person is if they're making a sincere attempt to share with me their story.

542

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: then I honor that. and I always find something to learn from in that.

543

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: because I'm not looking at my position, and I'm not looking the sophistication of the thought. I'm looking at the energy

544

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and am also understanding as a fellow human being, that it's important for me to evoke that to say that I have a presence that wants who you are.

545

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and I will sit here, and I will listen to that. Ask questions.

546

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and you know, not just as a counselor, but as a as a, as a as a stranger. Even so, that's we're getting there. I'm feeling pretty optimistic, believe it or not.

547

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: because of the overreach of this technocratic agenda and the failures of it.

548

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: We're questioning everything. Now question the climate narrative. We're question the covid, this transgenderism. Get this. I mean, here I am as a pro feminist man, right?

549

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: I actually showed up in a town hall sponsored by the US. Department of Education to advocate for women in sports. My sister was executive director of the National Association of Girls and Women in Sports.

550

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and now

551

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: we have patriarchy. 2 point, O trans version were men biological men. Now, it's progressive to allow biological men to compete with women in things like

552

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: weightlifting.

553

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: I'm going the text of Title 9 says you will not discriminate on the basis of sex meaning. Women, you know, will get funded equally.

554

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and they have completely subverted the whole intent of that. The whole point. The reason why we have men's and women's sports has to do that fundamental distinction.

555

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And so

556

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: there again, we have to see where that where things are being and inverted in this absurd way.

557

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Right? What is the human and humane way, the diversity, distinctness, and exchange way to work with this? Is it to allow men to just flood into women's sports. Take all their scholarships.

558

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: you know, and basically eliminate all that hard work, or do we keep them segregated

559

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: to. To encourage that diversity and that distinctness, and that excellence

560

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: right and and fairness

561

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: obvious to everyone. Nobody I know of agrees with men infiltrating women's sports. They can get a few people on television shows. But nobody essentially, nobody agrees with that for obvious reasons.

562

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: So it's almost like we're being played. They're seeing how far they can push. Okay.

563

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: now, it's our response. We gotta hit that tennis ball back and we gotta ace it.

564

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: We're gonna hit right in the corner and buy these people. And the best way to do this say, - we're we are. Gonna have coalition across every one of the divisions. They've tried to put between us

565

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: from the top, from the bottom up. We're going to take on that top down a desire to impose control on our freedom and our love.

566

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and we're not going to put up with it. So I mean, that's I mean, my, my sub stack articles. That's that. That's what I get at.

567

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: You know, when it comes to gender

568

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: I make in this last article I make 3 distinctions.

569

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: The first is sex sex is a biological fact. Okay, both in terms of the chromosomes. But

570

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: you know, with a very like 7 and 10,000 people that have some kind of intersex. They were the Xx Y chromosome or whatever. But for the most part it's a biological fact. People confuse that with gender gender is a sociological and linguistic

571

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: cultural construction. it has to do with how people think a man or woman, a male or female, should behave.

572

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Okay? And then, finally, there's spiritual polarity, right? Which is the Yin and the Yang.

573

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: the receptive force in the assertive force, positive and negative, light and dark. Okay, needing each other in order to create human

574

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: endeavor, human creativity, human life. And I'm like, it's a simple thing here.

575

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: This whole transgenderism would be solved if we simply said. You are your sex. Okay? You are male or female.

576

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: you're able, within that female or male, to act. However you want.

577

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: If you're gonna act in a way that's masking in your feminine and in your female. That's fine.

578

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Right? That's a construction. That construction.

579

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And the industrial model was more important, right than your individual expression. We're not. Gonna we're not. Gonna

580

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: we're not going to make that construction, that identity, that label important. If you want our tomboy be a tomboy.

581

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: If you're a boy that likes to play with dolls. Be a boy that likes to play with dolls. We do not honor this industrial. You have to have this sociological and cultural thing be matched perfectly with this.

582

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Instead, we have the opposite. We have this. We have this industrial sacred cow

583

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: of gender. And then we're back imposing it on kids 1210,

584

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: medicalizing them, cutting off their body parts.

585

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: That's that's insane.

586

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: The other way is the moral way which is to be embracing of the unique way of expressing themselves, no matter what

587

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: sex they are.

588

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: allow them to quote unquote experiment with gender. The way that they want to experiment with it do not intervene thickly for these people. Okay, allow them.

589

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: have confidence.

590

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Instead of retreating through that through dramatic surgeries, to embrace the fact that you are unusual and different that you are a boy that doesn't act quite unlike. Maybe your normal. Your average boy does, or a girl that doesn't act. That's great. We want that diversity. We want that to stay.

591

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: you know.

592

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And and that way you don't get into this medicalization and demonization of you being who you are.

593

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: you know, and and you don't water down spiritual polarity, either. by trying to have this Androgeny that just a racist sex. Altogether.

594

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: it's interesting what you're talking about here with regard to this.

595

Jeremy Van Wert: this, this kind of either, or idea of what masculine and mas the masculine and the feminine is supposed to be this. This sort of the word is binary, obviously, that that there is.

596

Jeremy Van Wert: I was recently the CEO of a company with about 200 employees.

597

Jeremy Van Wert: and I have a personal aesthetic. I do enjoy stylish dressing, and I felt that it was an important thing to represent this organization by dressing in a classy way.

598

Jeremy Van Wert: and that often included.

599

Jeremy Van Wert: you know, suits and that sort of thing, particularly in public, when I was representing the organization, and I was

600

Jeremy Van Wert: pretty floored by some of the bonehead reactions that I would get from people who had a visceral reaction to me.

601

Jeremy Van Wert: looking nice and dressing up because it's such an uncommon thing now for a man to do, particularly in the Western United States, because the uniform generally is a T shirt and a pair of jeans. And because I was dressing up from that.

602

Jeremy Van Wert: it challenged some people's concept of what a man is to them. And so I have emails from people

603

Jeremy Van Wert: with withering criticism of me all the way down to Thai clasps and colors that I wear and the types of suits that I would wear, and these things that I would just think you paid attention to that, and it bothered you enough to sit down and write to me about it.

604

Jeremy Van Wert: And so

605

Jeremy Van Wert: there is out there a strong pressure that people have to conform and to help others conform to a specific

606

Jeremy Van Wert: concept of what

607

Jeremy Van Wert: they think a human is supposed to be, and to for me as a 46 year old man, to be getting emails from people that are my age and older.

608

Jeremy Van Wert: that are

609

Jeremy Van Wert: this are really horrible just about the fact that I

610

Jeremy Van Wert: dress in a way that is different from the average person. II was was just blown away by by by that.

611

Jeremy Van Wert: And you're talking a lot here about the concept of temperance, the concept of

612

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: carefully

613

Jeremy Van Wert: and thoughtfully and spiritually defining what your values are, and

614

Jeremy Van Wert: moving in the direction of that, irrespective of these various popular narratives that there are about what something is supposed to be. What is it for you, because

615

Jeremy Van Wert: at the end

616

Jeremy Van Wert: of everything, it was you that led this life. It was you that made these decisions in your life. And so did you make decisions based upon

617

Jeremy Van Wert: the way that others wanted you to be? Or did you make authentic expression decisions because you were dedicated to living in your own values and your own style. You spoke a little bit there about the

618

Jeremy Van Wert: the industrial education model, and how it rewards certain types of learning very, very passionate about this as I look back at my own

619

Jeremy Van Wert: education journey in early childhood, and I was one of those kids that was moved to a different pla classroom because I wasn't like the others. And there was one teacher that said,

620

Jeremy Van Wert: Do you all realize that Jeremy is gifted? And the answer was.

621

Jeremy Van Wert: No, because he won't listen in class, and it was because I was bored, and II recently played a book on tape an audio book for somebody

622

Jeremy Van Wert: at the speed that I can comprehend it, and I'll tell you if I if some some of these apps have speeds that are above 2 times, and and I'm listening to them sometimes at 2.5 times, and to this other person it sounded like a chipmunk talking, and I'm catching every word because my processing. My audio processing speed is is pretty extreme, but in class I was so profoundly bored as a child that yes, I was pretty naughty.

623

Jeremy Van Wert: and I was pretty mouthy, and I did, apparently a lot of dancing in class, just because you know what it was. It was it was the time of new wave, you know.

624

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: So so ultimately, you're talking about

625

Jeremy Van Wert: every single human being with all of these wonderful little gifts that are their unique contribution to the world. It happens in the way that you think it happens in the way you learn. It happens in the way that you express yourself to the world, and that there are these forces that are enforced by a monolithic

626

Jeremy Van Wert: idea of what somebody is supposed to believe in.

627

Jeremy Van Wert: that pushes back on the person in order to push them into some sort of

628

Jeremy Van Wert: now we can. Now we can all proceed, because everything is all, all is well. Everybody's fitting into

629

Jeremy Van Wert: some kind of shoe box. And and you're you're you're really pushing people

630

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: to invent their own authentic expression. Hmm.

631

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Yup! And and this is the this is. This is the turn now in education, it it's where. Where do you get your coherence from? Industrial system gives coherence for people obeying

632

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and playing their respective cogs in the machine.

633

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: The problem and deadliness of that system. And we're seeing it now is that if the machine is designed and built toward our own self-destruction. There's nothing to stop it.

634

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Everyone just uncritically plays their own role. That's why it's so important to have diversity, real diversity, not just

635

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: particular manufactured stuff because there's people can push back like like the people in the be great, Barrington declaration. Push back. Said we need targeted

636

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: response to covid, because that's what we've always done in the past. Right? In order to avoid the the catastrophic effects of shut down in isolation, etc., etc.

637

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: They were right.

638

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Had they not spoken up right, there would be that only the Juggernaut on the machine going off the cliff. Okay. at least they were part of voices. Certainly I from the beginning we're raising all kinds of concerns that have proven all to be true for the most part. And I went ahead and voice that authentically and differently.

639

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And I went ahead and did research at Ivermagnet and secured those sorts of things. And I ended up helping other people.

640

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: With that knowledge, right? So we need. It's not just pushback. It is truly

641

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: a different way of having coherence. There's the control coherence which will almost always end a disaster where you say I, I will either cede my authority to someone else who's going to control the situation.

642

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: or, if you're one of those people. You say I'm gonna control this situation. But you're from an industrial framework. This is a comprehensive problem. And you're a health administration official who literally has no scientific background and absolutely no authority.

643

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: professionally.

644

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: in any sane world, to pronounce anything you literally know nothing, has taken no classes.

645

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: know nothing about health, know nothing about viruses. And yet you're making these mandates and declarations

646

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: based on complete lack of knowledge, because it makes you feel coherently

647

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: because you've intervened, and you've exerted your power as if that's inherently good

648

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: in an industrial system. He's in that box. He has that power. His job description is.

649

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: you know. The coherence is that he exercises that in a holistic system

650

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: a more spaghetti world, where people like yourself, when you were learning, are recognized and

651

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and fostered to be different.

652

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: You create a diversity of opinions. You go through those scenarios and and opinions, you create experiments along those lines, and see which one works better.

653

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: right? But in in a globalized.

654

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: in, in inter interlinked world.

655

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: run by a technocratic industrial mindset

656

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: that doesn't happen. The most powerful, the most specialized end up calling the shots, and even when they fail they they literally make a bid for more power

657

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: in education. were set up to cede our authority to these kinds of people. because the education itself was meant to instantiate that

658

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: from the beginning meant to reproduce norms, reproduce knowledge, not to create new knowledge, not to transform society, but to reproduce society.

659

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and there is a reproductive element there. I believe in Conservatives. I believe in tradition. I believe that wisdom. Those are things to be. you know I'm I'm listening to Epictetus, and a couple 1,000 years old. That's a form of conservatism, but it still works to day.

660

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: So there is. There is. There are appropriate forms of conservatism, including reproducing things that are desirable.

661

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: but you cannot and should not simply try to make the whole point of the system reproduction. The whole point of learning is to transform our abilities and develop our capabilities beyond what we have now.

662

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And that's the more what people call the more liberal or progressive or creative transformative element.

663

These both work together

664

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: right now we have the worst of both worlds. What you have is this pseudo progressive organization which is nothing but

665

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: a control freak.

666

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: who's reproducing a very narrow band of wealthy elite power and concentrating, wealthy elite power. It's the worst of both worlds.

667

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: It's a monoculture. and it's imposing itself and trying to make monolithic the and controllable. All this wonderful diversity underneath it. We from the bottom have to

668

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: pose this agenda by becoming more critically aware, but becoming more diverse, more distinct, and by exchanging and creating coalitions. Here

669

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: use those diversity, distinctness and exchange. They can't do it right. They're monolithic. They're they're all group things up here. We use a vital, holistic approach against their industrial top down approach. We will win

670

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: only if we agree to fall in, or suborne or surrender our authority to them, will we lose?

671

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: So when it comes to education. I'm in favor of education.

672

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Classical education, like, I said, critical thinking create creativity

673

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: where disabilities are not seen as disabilities. They're seen as giftedness, right and not in a fake kind of way. I'm like, like, literally, what unique way thing do you bring and what he gives you great joy that should be the purpose of education. Did you know that the whole root of education do you know what it actually means?

674

Jeremy Van Wert: No, go for it.

675

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Lead out educt

676

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: ek, or e. The prefix in Greek means to out of and duct means to lead. So the Greek and Latin roots of the word mean to lead out.

677

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Plato believed that we had all the knowledge in us, and if the teacher's job was just to facilitate

678

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: the grounding and leading out of that knowledge.

679

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: you know. So. so, Socrates, I guess Socrates, Playdote.

680

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: talking about Socrates for saying this, so think about in terms of divine genius.

681

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Right? Each of us has a knowledge inside.

682

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And each of us, in my notion, has a unique and valuable knowledge inside.

683

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Okay, so you're an active person. You're a smart person. You're a high, high, high, auditory processing person. All those things become part of the educational process to see who you are and how you can bring

684

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: this forward. Okay.

685

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: what are your joys? What are the things that you're really good at? What are the things you struggle at? All of these become input in a true educational system, a post post, modern education system.

686

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: where the coherence is created, not by top down test and in position. And if you're not listening and you shift to a special classroom, but by an individualized approach which allows you to develop an aware, self-conscious understanding of your own way of learning.

687

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Right? You learn how you learn.

688

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And then you share that with other students in peer groups, with with with mutual projects and problem based projects. And and you know creative projects

689

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and go out into the community.

690

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: And if there's a water pollution problem, you use your gifts and you team up with other people that have their gifts. And you start to analyze that problem. You start to interview community members. I mean, that's what the education could be right. A post industrial education could be from the bottom up.

691

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: We are using our diverse learning of capabilities to create this very vibrant diverse

692

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: engagement, and we're doing it locally. We're doing it from the ground up, literally talking about the actual ground environmentally, or the lake or the stream, and the actual community members.

693

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Instead, we get this

694

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: silly stuff where we learn what happened 200 years ago, and history always seems to end right before we were born. Right?

695

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: We don't go out into the community to do these things. We don't use our mathematics and our science to do that.

696

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Maybe we do it in a little bit. You know a little project here, a little field trip there. But an ideal education

697

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: would do that. It would do that for civic education. What is representation? What is democracy? What does it look like? How can we stimulate it here.

698

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: you know, and ask kids for original ideas on that?

699

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Let him be critical minded. Are we having democracy in this school? Should we have a democracy in this goal? Well, for some things, yes, and other things most definitely not right. Cause you're not developmentally quite capable of understanding certain things.

700

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Sorry! That's not every just that has to do with the kids that were being medicalized. This so-called general reassignment surgery.

701

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: This thing like a 10 year old, can make decisions of lasting impact. Our 12 year old

702

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: enough to cut off and create S. Permanent for infertility and permanent social dysfunction. I don't think so.

703

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: There's a reason why we don't accord decision making to a 12 year old. You can't buy beer until you're 21. But you can make that decision when you're almost half that age.

704

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: No. So again, the the

705

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: we don't need to create some kind of huge complex system.

706

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: if we have the ability to reflect, be compassionate.

707

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and actually

708

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: want what another person has to offer that's unique from themselves rather than be threatened by it and try to hit them down.

709

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: We're going to do just fine.

710

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Our country, that is, America is very well positioned to do that. It's young, it's always been creative.

711

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: It's adolescent. It's allowed itself to be taken over in some sense.

712

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: be seduced by materialism and upper and middle and upper middle class lifestyle. But now, especially after Covid.

713

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: we're seeing the the dark side that's been sneaking up behind all along. and we have a decision to make

714

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: hardly a member. Your audience hardly remember, person. I know even the people who are not politically engaged. They sense this stuff, they are aware of it.

715

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: We need to help educate each other on how to move forward. From here

716

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: we need to learn how to unplug and not give or not conform to this mindless Juggernaut, and we learn, we need to learn how to team up and collaborate together

717

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: in very real ways in education, community

718

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: politics. If that's what you want. Certainly economy right to to start making decisions that allow for different kind of coherence.

719

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: right? One based on knowledge. You say temperance

720

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: based on seeing the best in one another and desiring for that to come forward not based on agreement or disagreement, not based on identity. Identity is a faceless label.

721

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: It doesn't have any spirit to it.

722

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: I want to know a person's humanity, not their identity.

723

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Right? I want to know what they have. They want to accomplish in the world. what dreams they have for their kids right?

724

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Not whether or not they can gain some social status by saying, I have a trans kid, right? I want fairness. I don't want men competing in women's sport because I want fairness

725

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: again. It goes back to virtues.

726

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: We need a society run by virtues. What did the Greeks say virtues were

727

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: like in the end. What does it all go to? What can you truly hold on to? Socrates said, you can truly hold on to virtue, he said. The highest virtue is knowledge.

728

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Some up people might say faith, or you know some other thing, but the whole point is a virtue is a virtue, because it's not something for something else. It's not an instrument for something else.

729

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: It is an end in itself. Human beings are not instruments to something else. They are an end in themselves.

730

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Nature is not just to be plundered right? She is an end in herself. And is this ultimate giver of beauty and giver of inspiration and sustainer of our life.

731

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: When we start treating ourselves and each other intrinsically

732

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: rather than interim instrumentally, we will have conquered the industrial impulse. The industrial impulse was an experiment. a world wide experiment about how to treat everything as if it were a contract or an instrument

733

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: to some other desire.

734

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: How do I get something by exploiting this or that?

735

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Now we are being invited, in fact, forced, I think, to say.

736

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: quite a different question.

737

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: how can I live a good life

738

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: by deeply embracing, exploring, and honoring

739

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: this. and you

740

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and Mother Nature, and anything that I confront? How can it create a positive, healthy connection with you?

741

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: What are the requirements of that? I gave some of them

742

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: respecting the diversity, distinctness, exchange? Why have an enemy instead of retreating. someone's coming at you. approach them right

743

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: instead of looking them as an identity or as a potential threat. Look at them as an opportunity, opportunity to learn something and thank them for not agreeing with you.

744

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Thank them for teaching you something. you know. Show I mean.

745

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: It kind of reminds me of an analogy.

746

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: I said. I've gotten to the point in my life. If you present to me a kale salad or ice cream Sunday, there is

747

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: absolutely no hesitation. I'm gonna take the kale salad. I know. First of all, I like. I like it. I like the taste of it. But more importantly, because sometimes you have to grow into that. But, more importantly, I know the effect it's going to have on my body.

748

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: I'm gonna be just like right. And then ice cream Sunday. It's just gonna make me feel sludgy.

749

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: This is, gonna be me right down. It's gonna be a little bit of a bump up and then a lump.

750

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: So

751

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: again intrinsic, that kale salad has an intrinsic vitality to it. Right? I bring that into me.

752

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: This is what's gonna happen to me that ice cream Sunday has an instrumental

753

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: pseudo vitality that kicks me up with a little bit of blood sugar

754

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and comes crashing down. There are choices morally, spiritually, practically, economically, politically. we need to understand what has intrinsic value, or at least some promise. We're all imperfect.

755

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Okay, has a higher proportion of intrinsic value

756

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: and what are merely manipulations. and have in instrumental manipulations and exploitation.

757

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Don't agree to them. Don't agree to be manipulated. Don't agree to be used as an instrument.

758

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: If you're feeling that you're just a grind at work, and it's a bullshit job.

759

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: Make plans, real plans

760

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: don't just like scan through social media and dream about

761

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: having another job. Take the time to meditate, reflect.

762

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: find those aspects in you. What kinds of other kind of work volunteer even that might go with it and begin to actually take steps.

763

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: talk to people who are in that area. you know.

764

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: research it yourself, engage in experiments.

765

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: If it's a small business you want to start. and you really love cookies won't make a batch or 2 in your oven. Trot em around, get feedback from your friends and family set up a little bit of the stand, whatever it happens to be.

766

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: you know. and let your let your passion carry you.

767

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: If it turns out that you're really bad at it for some reason, and no one wants to buy it. Don't use that as a reason to say, All right.

768

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: find a way to either fine, tune it, or move into a different day, good, or move into something else. But continue to learn. Learn how to learn

769

Jeremy Van Wert: Dr. Zeus Yamayanas. Thank you so much for spending just about 2 h here talking to us. You know what II really

770

Jeremy Van Wert: love about you is your total fearlessness in going into and talking about really difficult subjects, and your

771

Jeremy Van Wert: fierce devotion to the concept of temperance and unique individualism and authenticity, and the importance that you place on the individual being a holistically spiritual, unique.

772

Jeremy Van Wert: and loving individual, and defining your personhood by who you really are, and not by these external forces that seem to want to make you travel in one lane or another lane. I love your total devotion to real thinking and to your willingness to tackle really difficult topics. So thank you so much for coming on the mindful mutiny. Podcast

773

Zeus Yiamouyiannis: thank you so much, Jeremy. It's always been a pleasure to, to speak with you, and always a pleasure to to collaborate with someone to help get a message of of you. Say mindful mutiny out there where we could be positive, and at the same time also agree not to participate in things that are not healthy or positive. So thank you for the work you're doing as well.

774

Jeremy Van Wert: I'm Jeremy Van Wert, CEO of high altitude. Mindset. Now go, be something great.