Get ready to supercharge your creativity with Val! In this episode, Val brings on Ashton Rodehiser, a creative entrepreneur and visual illustrator, who has a unique solution for making meetings and events memorable. Ashton creates captivating sketchnotes during meetings, injecting a dose of creativity to help you better grasp and navigate through the details. No need to be a starving artist—Val and Ashton tell you how you can thrive successfully in both art and business.

Ashton breaks down the creative hustle math, stressing the importance of self-care and vacations in maintaining a thriving business. Discover the secrets to charging what your genius is truly worth and delve into the power of collaboration and referrals. Tune in for a burst of creativity with a splash of business savvy.

Connect with Ashton Rodehiser:

Ashton Rodenhiser is an internationally known Graphic Facilitator and Sketchnoting educator. She recognizes the profound impact of sketchnoting as a tool for thinking and learning, Ashton firmly believes in its power to help others engage creatively while deepening their understanding. It’s her passion to help individuals express their ideas in imaginative and compelling ways.

Website - http://www.mindseyecreative.ca/

Website - http://www.sketchnote.school

Twitter - https://twitter.com/MindsEyeCCF

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ashtonmindseye/

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/MindsEyeCreativeCF

YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/MindsEyeCreativeConsulting

Pinterest - www.pinterest.com/SketchnoteSchool

TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@mindseyecreative

LinkedIn- https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonrodenhiser/

Beginner’s Guide to Sketchnoting - https://sketchnote.school/book

Resource:

Beginners Guide to Sketchnoting: Focus Better, Learn Faster and Remember Longer by Drawing Your Notes - https://amzn.to/47rnTa5

Connect with Val:

Follow Val on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bundlebashbiz

Val’s Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/bundlebashbizroundup

Ways you can collaborate with Val –

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Let's collaborate: https://bundlebash.com/contact-us/

Hello, everyone. I am excited. Yes. I have brought in another guest. I know it's been quite a while, so I'm excited to have this full lineup of all of these people to bring to you because, you know, collaboration starts with talking to other people. But I'm excited because this is this is really unique. So I've got Ashton on here, and she's gonna talk about some stuff that goodness, I'm almost thinking we probably should have videoed for you to just show them what you do so it's it's so creative. But, Ashton, thank you for being here.

And would you just tell my listeners whatever you'd like them to know about you?

Yeah. First of all, thanks so much for having me. I knew as soon as we hopped in a call, we'd have a good time, so I'm so excited to see where the conversation goes today. Teacher. Yeah. So I'm a a creative entrepreneur, and I'm a live illustrator for a living. And I have been doing so for almost 10 years now, which is pretty wild to say out loud.

Excellent. In your bio, you're talking about making money in a niche where I mean, how many generations? It's not even decades. It's generations upon generations have Everybody been told, oh, you can't make money off of being creative.

I know. I know. That's, yeah, that's something that I really feel passionate about talking a lot about is sort of Trying to dismantle the start is already mentality. And, like, we are surrounded by creativity all the time, and we pay, a lot of money Yeah. To actors. And, you know, the things that we seem to get obsessed about, I think we forget that these are different art forms. Right. Some are just more highly paid than others or people put a lot of focus and energy on them, but It's art and creativity surrounds us on a daily basis, and people are paid very well in creative fields.

So I just find that such a odd statement, to be honest with you, the whole, like, you can't make money as an artist. And I'm like, You know? I just think that's ridiculous in many, many senses.

I see it a lot in people that are in more creative endeavors as entrepreneurs devaluing what they do. I mean, we all kinda do when it's something that comes easy to us. Yeah. But I really do see it a lot more in the creative niche of, you know, putting a $17 price tag on something, and it's like, are you kidding me? Nobody else can do that.

Yeah. It it's a funny thing because we I think people just have a really hard time interlinking the 2 together, art and business, and they feel like 2 completely different worlds, which doesn't have to be the case. But, like, maybe if you did something else, it might make, More of a logical sense. You go, oh, this thing and business, they feel like they're interlinked, but there does seems to be such a varying contrast between the 2, and I feel like, unfortunately, a lot of artists kinda get into this space where, well, I'm gonna stick it to the man by not charging or not dealing with the money side of things.

Right.

For this part of me is, like, if you want to do this creative thing in the world, you half to charge. If you can't feed your family or if you can't put a roof over your head, then who are you really sticking it to? Like, you're yourself.

You know? Exactly. That's exactly what I was thinking. It's like nobody else cares as much about what's going on in our life as we do.

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And I actually really love talking about, like, business and money, especially from a creative running this kinda creative business for so long too because I find creatives, like, Have a really hard time dealing with money, talking about money, figuring out what to charge, like, all of these things. And it's so emotionally charged, I think, in general, but you add your own creativity on top of it. And when someone says no to you, it feels like an attack on your soul. Right. Because it is so personal to you.

So personal. Right? And I had to kind of twine. Some of those things, I feel like those 1st few years, I'm like, if they are saying no to this service, they're not attacking who I am as a creative being in the world. They're just saying no to the service. Yeah. End of sentence. No emotional what which, you know, I am a very sensitive and emotional person in general. Right? So it can be one of those difficult things to kind of untwine, but it's really important to separate in a sense.

And as person who's charging for your work. You have to be able to turn on your creativity, like, in an instant. You can't get into the van, get into the flow. Like, ideally, great, but, like, you have to show up and be creative in that moment. That's why you're showing up is to be the creative energy in that space potentially. And you gotta be able to turn that on, and that's worth something. People have to pay for that.

Mhmm. Yeah. And that can be hard, especially if it's something that you've always thought of as a hobby. Yeah. So now all of a sudden you wanna make money from it. Is there a little bit of a mindset switch there with the, oh, I I killed the fun?

Yeah. Well, the 1st few years, it was more of a hobby. It was more of like a side gig, but side gigs weren't even really talked about 10 years ago. Like, it wasn't really like, side hustles wasn't really a term. I don't remember overhearing it anyways. But if for me, I went to a conference for people who do this type of work from all over the world, and I went to that conference with a very specific mission. And I was like, I'm gonna leave this conference going. I'm just gonna continue to do this on the side, or I'm gonna go all in.

I wanted to Kinda soak up the energy of other people that are doing this. Like, is this possible for me? Right? And I think it's totally fine to Have a hobby on the side and you do it. You charge for it or you don't or whatever. I think it's important to charge at least something even if it's a hobby because you have to teach people that creative projects and endeavors and skill sets are worth compensating for. So I try to encourage people to charge something even if it's a hobby. But, yeah, I think you kinda just have to make a decision. Is this gonna be a am I going to Really try to build a business around this. Am I gonna take this to the next level, and it's gonna be more of my daily life or what have you? And I think either decision is line.

It's just the energy behind it.

Yeah. Yeah. I agree. And I run into that with all clients no matter what kind of business stuff they're doing. You know, you get trapped into the, well, I'm just I'm okay right here. It's like, oh, wait. That's fine if it is a conscious decision of Yeah. I'm okay right here.

Yeah. And I think that's a slippery slope. It's a slippery slope because what people say to me is, I have enough. I'm like, yeah. But what's enough? Have you clearly defined for yourself what enough is? If you cannot pay out of pocket for a vacation. To me, you're not making enough because you need to be able to Do what it is that you love to do, and you're charging and what have you. But if you struggle to pay some of your bills or you don't have any money for holidays or you can't go on a vacation, That's not enough. And I think we go, oh, well, those are nice to haves.

I'm like, no. No. Those are essentials.

Yep.

Taking time off and going on a vacation is an essential.

Yep.

Have you made the extra few $1,000 to be able to go and not worry about choosing a menu item at the restaurant because it's the cheapest thing? I will be the hell that I die on when it comes to that because I think it can be this, oh, it's enough. Oh, I'm fine. Oh, it's good. But I'm like, but is it, though? And have you done the numbers? Like, I am not a math person, but I love money numbers. I love looking at What am I gonna do? How am I gonna charge? What does this look like? You know? And my setting money aside for decompression time. Like, I cannot live illustrate every day, so I have to take that into consideration. Like, I would be burnt out. Like, I would've been burnt out years ago.

Yep.

If you did it every day because it takes so much creative focus. And I was just talking to someone this morning that She said it's, like, actually really hard on your nervous system, right, because you're taking in so much information. You're processing it all. So you have to take those. Like, can you I I will have my physio appointment this morning. You have to be able to pay for those things, and you have to incorporate those. Group. If you can't well, I can't afford the physio appointment, then that's a problem.

Right? So be wary of the language that you use when it comes to, oh, it's fine. Oh, it's enough. I'm like, but is it really? Yep.

Oh, no. I love it. Absolutely. Because COVID taught me that, Yes. I was having enough because I was scheduling out the stuff, but then scheduling out vacations

and got

in the habit of not scheduling vacations and then not saving up

for the vacations because I didn't need to. Right? I need to take my own advice here. Like, don't day. I am not someone to look at. Like, don't look at my schedule or you'll be like, what is she saying? She doesn't I need to take my own advice for this.

Yep. Which is usually when all of this pops up and then the conversation happens, and then it's like, okay. I'm gonna go do that right now. Good

But, like, for me, I know client work wise, December's always quiet. Right? December's a quiet month, and I'm like, that's okay. I planned my year knowing December's gonna be quiet on the client front, and it's fine. And I just block off a few weeks. I can do whatever I want. I can work on a side thing that I've been wanting to do for a while. I could do nothing. Right? I can do whatever I want for a few weeks in December, but I know I have that flexibility, and I look forward to that.

By the end of the year, like, I need, like, a brain break

Oh, for sure. Podcast. Right? For chair. Yeah. I've been looking at for years. I always took the last 2 weeks of the year, and I didn't have it scheduled out. I would do some brainstorming if I felt like it. You know, a little bit of mapping out what it would look like, but nothing super structured 4 years, and then I don't know when I stopped doing it.

Yeah. Definitely.

So I really wanna dig into what it is that you are doing with your creativity and your art because when I pulled up your website so you've got sketchnote school, which Yeah. I have already gotten on your list today. I'm not on your list today for that. And and then you have Minds I created. I've got. Yes. And that looks like your services that you offer. So what are people using these services for? And I know you guys this is kinda hard without me pulling up a picture, but Your graphics are amazing.

I love it. Thank you. Yeah. So, usually, like, what I like to say to people is, have you ever been in a meeting and it's been really boring?

Gap. All that that's exactly as I was looking at your pictures going, oh, that would be such a better conference.

Yeah. So conferences, organizations, you know, anything from a teeny tiny nonprofit all the way up to, like, Fortune 500 company. Go into meetings, go into strategic planning, go into conferences. Whatever I'm hearing, whether I'm hearing a presentation, whether I'm hearing a conversation, however that looks individual, depending on the client, I visualize that information. Right? So if it's an hour long keynote presentation, I'm there for that hour. I'm I've drawing it when they're done. I'm done pretty much. So it's a very clear snapshot in time of the key messages, the The key ideas, the funny little things that that speaker said, or if it's a day long meeting or a multi day or whatever it is and you're trying to get to some decision as a team or what have you.

And I really care about working with people who care about not just the people in the room, but the participants learning their engagement, The accessibility of information because nothing is worse. You leave this 2 day strategic planning or you leave this 3 day conference. You don't remember anything, and that drives me absolutely insane. So you have these visual snapshots that you can look at very quickly And go, right. He said that. They said that. Okay. Because from a speaker's perspective, for conference, for example, I would hope, as a speaker, you care about the learning of the attendees, and you want them to take all your wisdom and actually apply it.

You cannot apply it if you don't remember it.

Yep.

Right? So I find myself in really interesting and unique spaces and places in any industry, really, and I get to kinda just soak it all in for a couple of days or a few hours or whatever it is. And then on the flip side, I'm starting to teach people how to do this for their own learning, and that's what sketch note school is all about. Because sketch note is a more popularized term on how to draw your own notes. So if you go to this conference and I'm not there, then you can draw your own thinking and trying to Explain to people that drawing isn't something always to be admired. It's something drawing can be an active tool to help you think and learn. Mhmm. Right? And you do not have to be an artist. You don't even have to draw.

Like, I can teach you draw the drawing skills in, like, 15 minutes. Skill. It's not complicated. But a lot of people have this, like, really weird relationship with creativity. Right. So I'm also feeling like I'm trying to peel that back for people of, like, yes. You are creative. You probably just had a bad experience at some point in your life that told you you weren't, but all of us are.

Whether we draw or we're good storytellers or we're funny or whatever it is. We're all creative our own way. Yep. It's just tapping into that. Mhmm. And I like doing it in this space.

Way. And especially as entrepreneurs. I mean, even people who say that they're so analytical, I was like, well, as an entrepreneur, you're still creative because you're constantly creating things. You don't get to run away from it. No wonder why you need the downtime. If you are doing this live and pulling in all of that energy. Oh my gosh. That must be draining.

It is

very exhausting. Yeah. It's, mental and physical. Like, because usually when I'm in person, I'm literally doing with papers and markers, like, gigantic illustrations. And then I still do this in person for digital as well, but a lot of times. I do hybrid meetings and things, and I'm doing it on a screen.

Mhmm.

Right? And I'm drawing it all out live on a screen. Yeah. There Our physical elements to it, but it is more of the mental capacity. Like, I feel bad for people who try to talk to me at the end of a conference, and I'm just like, duh duh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. I'm like, I'm sorry. I can't even put 2 sentences

to the other to talk to you.

They're like, do you have a business card? I'm like, yeah. I don't even know Oh, they are. You know?

Like I said, you guys, this is really a tough one to not be able to show you on the audio, of course. But if you go and pull up her site, go to her profile, I believe. I'm scrolling through it right now. Portfolio. Go to her portfolio. You'll see exactly what we're talking about. She is taking, for lack of anything else, the minutes for the meeting and turning them into something absolutely gorgeous and actionable and, you know, arrows and fun looking stuff instead of just a word graph. Yeah.

Guy.

Yeah. Like I said, because a lot of this thing in pictures to me, of course, is, like, at this point, I mean, it's like a no brainer. Like, why wouldn't you have someone visualizing the information? But The example I give is, you know, YouTube is the 2nd largest search engine in the world for a reason because people would rather see Yep. What's the what's up? They wanna see someone make a recipe or show them how to do something. But if you try to explain it in words or in writing, You know, some people prefer that, but even if they do, a lot of people still appreciate a visual. If it even if they don't consider it One of their primary preferences for learning, a lot of people still resonate with a visual. Yeah. Right? That's why, like, all social media.

All it is is visuals, man. Like, all of it. It's all visuals. Like, what are we doing? We're scrolling reels on Instagram because we wanna see stuff. Right? You know, there's still always gonna be a beautiful space for written content, and I love a good book in my hand and I wanna read it. But we need just to be able to give other avenues for learning and engagement. And, like, you know, one thing I tend to talk With a lot of clients about lately is, like, around the accessibility of information, and more organizations, thankfully, are caring about the diverse learning styles of people in the room, including people who have, like, ADHD or some sort of, like, processing issues or what or, physically, they can't sit there for that long for whatever reason, and We want everybody to have access to the information. Right? But, like, saying, oh, well, you can just watch the presentation later on a zoom like 5 months when we put on youtube like that's not good enough in my opinion and it's singling people out by not offering other ways for someone to digest content from that speaker.

Mhmm.

And a slide deck is not gonna do it. Deck. Is a cop out in my opinion.

Yeah.

Offering a slide deck to your attendees after is lazy. Yeah. Because if the speakers do slide decks well, it shouldn't tell you the whole story.

Right. Exactly.

It's supposed to accompany it. Guest. As a it shouldn't just be walls of text. And even if it is, it's still not gonna tell you Yeah. What the speaker said. Guest. Right? It's just supposed to be a supporting document.

Mhmm.

Right? So, yeah. Anyways, you got me on a podium today. I'm doing all saying all the things.

There's nothing worse than somebody just standing up there and just reading their girl. So you're like, come on.

You're like, breathe.

Breathe and go off. Go off on a tangent, please.

I I can't remember. I I haven't updated my numbers this year. But last year, I captured over 600 presentations. Oh

my gosh.

Right? So that's a lot of drawing, and that's a lot of listening. Right? I feel like at this point, I'm more of the professional listener than anything. Thing. You just happen to get a nice graphic out of it, and I have had my fair share of sitting through some pretty terrific presentations. I feel like I could start a whole new business. Just teaching people how to present information.

Yeah. Well, that's how it starts. You're there, and you're getting what's working, and you're watching the audience. And you're firsthand watching the audience up there. Yep.

And that I'm always keeping them in mind. What do I think they need to take from this? Who are what are they you know, if I know it's a room full of newbies, but the person on the stages, like, saying really advanced stuff. I'm trying to, like, hold space as a newbie or what have you. Right? It's Yeah. And I don't know what anyone's gonna say before they're gonna say it. Like, I'm listening in the same space that they are, so I'm trying to hold Not learning in the same space. Right?

Right. Yeah. Man, you would be gold if a speaker took you on tour with them for what you would teach them and how you would help them. That's what I figured.

I think, like you know, I do have a couple of speakers because I work, like, a lot in very specific text basis that I've captured a couple of times. And there's this 1 guy specifically that he actually comes to me after, And he'll say, hey. What did you hear? Why did you capture what you captured? And he uses it as a reflection tool, which I think is so cool Because he obviously cares about the audience too, which, you know, I hope speakers do, but, you can tell that a lot of them don't. It's just more of an ego trip. Yep. And he wants to make sure that he communicated the information well and being able to digest that with him for a few minutes or talk about it or even him just Reflect on it. He's like, if she didn't get something, then that I wanted to make sure that everybody understood. Nice.

Did I not emphasis in it enough? Did I not make it clear enough? So, I think it's a beautiful way for them to have this nice capture of their information. And a lot of events will give us gifts, or they'll print them and mail them or whatever it is, which is beautiful way to kind of, like, show your appreciation, but then also this really cool how people use them after dirt Mhmm. Events and and things as well. And it's cool that it has the in the moment engagement, but then also the longevity after, which is really cool.

Yeah. Yeah. You've got me wanting to go to Amazon, like, immediately and go get one of the easel the big draw draw papers Big paper, ma'am. To see just to see what in the world could I even come up with. Big paper. Big paper

is the best. Go to a print shop. Go to a print shop. Get a big roll of paper. I had to get some more, and they're a 150. They're 3 and a half feet wide by and they're a 150 feet long. Wow. I got 4 rolls They're great, and, like, nothing is precious.

Right? You wanna play around? Nothing is precious. You know what? I mean? You have to show it to anybody if you don't want to.

Right.

Right? Whereas Sometimes the permanentness of it can be a little, scary to people. I'm like, that's just like use paper and put a sticker on, like, Something sticky on the back of it and moving around. Use a sticky note or do whatever you want. Right? And, like, use your, like, materials that you have in a cupboard that you never use

because of

your nice ones. Like, treat yourself. Use your nice stuff. You know? When else are you gonna use it? I know. Right. Use that journal or those that beautiful pack of sticky notes That you haven't used yet because you're like, oh, but I wanna save them. No. To save them.

To save them.

What are you saving them for? To take them with you? Use the good stuff. Use the good pens. Use everything. Yeah. So how in the world did you get started doing this?

Yeah. So I learned that it was a thing as a facilitator. So I started working Right out, I just took early childhood education. I started working at a nonprofit. And a few years into there, I moved into a facilitation role, And I really fell in love with community development and facilitation and how to help groups of people navigate their own wisdom to come to whatever it is they're trying to get to. And I love facilitation because it's about group process. It's not about you being the expert. It's about knowing how to ask good questions and, honestly, to be that professional listener, right, and help them get to whatever goal they're trying to achieve.

Right? So after doing that for a little while, I left that. I wanted to move back to my home, buy a house, get married, do all those things, And I started seeking out opportunities to do facilitation. I couldn't figure out at the time how to do it professionally, so I was volunteering a lot of organizations and nonprofits and things and trying to do what I could just to kinda keep my skill Develop it. And, a facilitator friend who I met, he told me about a one day graphic facilitation workshop, but I didn't even know what that was at the time. And I went to that workshop, and I was like, this is it. Yeah. This is, like, my like, I think I always wanted to secretly be an artist, But it was never on the table because of all the things we talked about at the very beginning of this conversation. Yep.

And I was like, oh, it's always like It was my artistic side that I never really were able to explore professionally, and this facilitation, listening, thinking, digesting, reflecting dingside that I really, really loved. It was this kind of beautiful mashed dinner.

Oh, that's the best when that happens.

I need, like, It it this or go home kind of thing.

Awesome. Awesome. So, listeners, pay attention to the time frame she said And the different things that Ashton was learning along the way that led to figuring out exactly what you wanted to do. You know I know that's something that I have had issues with. It's like, okay. Well, I did this. Oh, that didn't work. I did this.

Oh, that didn't work. And it's led me to exactly where I am right now doing

Yeah.

Doing exactly what I want to be doing. If I hadn't had all of those fails, air quotes,

fails. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, like, for me too, those 1st few years, it's like I had a business, But it was, like, secret. So don't do that either. Don't have a business. Not tell anybody because I did that, and I was like, why don't I have any clients? But I'm like, because I didn't tell anybody. I was open for business.

Yeah. You

know? And, like, my web my first website was awful. My first logo was horrible. Like, all of those awful. But, like, it was something, and I procrastinated the crap out of everything just to, like, avoid telling people I was open

for business. Gift.

I would do all the research. Like, I heard a term recently. It's, like, procrasta learning. Yep. Right? Like, you could put procrasta anything. Deal. Anything you can do other than to tell people that you're open for business? But that's, like, the scariest thing to do because you're just opening yourself up for Potential ton of rejection Yeah. Which I got a ton at the time.

Like, those 1st early years was, like, rejection city. Right? It's just, like, every day getting rejected And try like, reading books on rejection to try to get over. Right. It felt like turmoil of being rejected constantly, You know? Because I didn't know how to articulate my value enough. Like, I wasn't showing up in spaces enough where people could see it, understand the value, and I had to go through a lot of that. But, certainly, if I would have just told people that they could hire me, that could have been a good start.

So It is a good start. It is. Yes. Absolutely. I've been just as guilty of it many, many times. And, well, you know, part of the reason is, well, if nobody really knows, can you really fail? No. Not really. Yeah.

And fear of success as well is, you know, just the same on the other side of of gosh. Well, what if it does take off? Then what? Life changes.

It's like, yeah. And it's like you have to run your business. It took me a long time to learn this. You have to run the your business in a way that feels good to you. Because I feel like in the Procrasital learning those 1st few years, I would, like, Watch all these, like, business bros about, like, funnels and all this stuff, and I'm like, I have no idea. Like, this doesn't resonate with meet. It doesn't feel good. I don't like it.

I don't wanna, like, put someone through a funnel that feels icky. Like, I don't like it. And I felt like I had to do some of those things, but then I would never really do them because I didn't like it.

Yep.

Right? So it took me quite a long time for me to realize. I'm like, I can run my business in a way that feels good to me, and I'll still get clients. It's fine. Like, it will work itself out even if I don't do all the things, quote, unquote, that some dude on the Internet told me I should do in order to be fall. So you, like, seek out, like, listening to this podcast where there's other people, like, doing other things and running their businesses in ways that feel good to them, group. Right? That feel authentic to them, not necessarily feeling like you have to follow all the, like, Experts in all the things that they tell you to do. Yeah. Because I feel like I don't do any of those things, and I still do well.

Like, I'm still fine. You know what

I mean? Well, There's no one way to do business. And that's the thing. It's like, that worked for that person. You know? It might work for some of the other people that followed along with them, but it's not going to work for everyone. If there was one way to do it, we'd all be doing it.

Exactly. Yeah. And, like, I just look like, you can look. I've been saying this a lot, like, in my mind and to others recently around you look for the evidence that it's possible. Right? And that's why it's important for someone like me to come and have a conversation with you because then it shows people that things are possible for them. Group. Because you can do the opposite and say, I'm gonna look for the evidence that it's not going to work for me because I don't wanna do what all those, like, Internet bros tell me I need to do. Right? So seek out ways to Find people, and it is harder.

It is harder. You have to look a little deeper sometimes in the spaces, in the books, in the podcast, and things where people are authentic, and they're running things the way that feel good to them and not getting kinda sucked into hustle culture and all that kind of, like, scene. Right? Because it's so much easier to get sucked into that space, And I think people are starting to get pushed back on that a little bit, so maybe it's a little easier to find it now. But you can look for the evidence And look for the way that you wanna do things from other people who are doing things a little different that feel good to them.

Mhmm.

And even if you don't wanna do it the way that they're doing it, Like, maybe you don't wanna do it the way that I am, but they're like, well, Ashton's doing it the way that she wants to, so maybe I can do it the way that I want to.

Yep. And

I'll still be successful.

Yep, permission to do it the way you you really feel like you want to. Yep.

Yeah. And at the end of the day, what matters, Your happiness and your client's happiness, that's all that matters. Right? Like, you know, if you if your client is happy, they're gonna come back to you. Like, honestly, the majority of my work this year has just been repeat clients, and I've been happy as a client because they're they're awesome. And they're like, they could be my friends. Group. Great, and that's who I wanna be working with. Like, they have to pass the fun test when I have a call with them.

If they don't seem fun and easygoing, I don't wanna work with them. Like, I'm very strict. Great. Good. But in the beginning, it's harder to be like that.

Yes.

Day. Until you have that confidence and you learn and, oh, maybe you learn the hard way by taking on a client that you you should've send. Gift. And now you're regretting it. Like, I

hope he

does that.

Yep.

Right? But Being a little bit more strict in, like, who you wanna work with, then you'll have a good time.

Yeah. Right?

And you can do it in a way that feels good for you. And It's funny because I'm on the opposite end now. Whereas before, I would get rejected all the time, and it hurt like hell was awful. And now I'm on the other side where I literally just tell people on a call. I'm like, hey. If you're fun I only work with fun people.

Great.

And they're like, I think I'm fun. I think I think we're fun. And I'm like, well, you better be because I'm not gonna work with you if you're not fun. And then they're trying to sell me to work with them. Right? But that it's just that's confidence over time and Yeah. And positive reinforcement and positive work experiences over time can get you to that point of I never thought I'd ever be at this point where I'd be, like, so chill on a sales call where, you You know? I'm just like, well, if you're not fun, like, we're not gonna do this. Right. Whereas before, I had such desperate energy and was awful.

Mike, I would literally have to take my Fitbit off because my heart rate would spike, and it would think of out when I wasn't. I was just sitting there, good Still as a board, not working out.

You're getting the notice. Okay. We we need yoga right now. Yes. Jill, Totally get it. It's an amazing thing. And especially because you are doing what you want, and you value it. You understand the value of it.

So, yeah, it's just a whole new ballgame when you get to that level, and it's just awesome.

It is a special place to get to, but it just takes time and energy, unfortunately. And I do feel more confident these days because I can say I've been doing this for 10 years. Like, 10 years is a long time to be doing something. You know? But when I was doing, like, for 5 years, it's like, oh, I've only been doing it for 5. You know? It doesn't feel as impressive, But there is a sometimes, like, it is a bit of a long game, unfortunately, and we have like, we are in a instant gratification world, and we feel like if we should Have all the success we want, and then we see a reel on Instagram. It's like, I made $1,000,000 in 2 months. I opened my business 2 months made $1,000,000, and then you feel like garbage.

Yep.

You know? It's like those stories and stuff, they just feed the The negative

Yes.

Parts of us that believe that we can't do it. Mhmm. Right?

Mhmm. Yeah. And one thing you said is looking for the people that are doing things similar to you not to you, but in a way that you want and finding them. And I just wanna let everybody know that when you start doing that, While it does take some time usually to find those people, once you're doing it, you'll start noticing more Of the positive versus the negative. And the beautiful thing is I don't know about you for social media, but I started getting rid of all the negative. Because I was as like, as soon as something would pop up. Yeah. As soon as it would pop up, I'm like, oh, hell no.

You gotta go. You know? Guy. I don't need that. I don't need that.

Honestly, like, make friends with someone who is your competition. Make friends with your competition because There really is no such thing. Mm-mm. Because, like, from my line of work, like, if someone sees someone in Advent live illustrating, They're gonna hire them, or they're gonna hire someone else. Yep. Right? Like, we don't need to poach clients for people. Like, there's enough to go around. Mhmm.

Night. But if you make friends with people who might be considered your competition, you get to you know? Like, I have a couple people, like, on a Facebook Messenger friend or a thread, and we just, like every time we're going through something that's not so fun, we just miss it. And we just need to, like, get it out for people who understand. Yes. Right? Because we know all the nuances and weird little things, what it's like to be A graphic facilitator, live illustrator, sketchnote, or whatever you wanna call it. Like, there's all these funny little nuances, and people who aren't in the industry don't understand.

Like, you

can complaint. To your husband or your friend, but they don't get it. Yep. Right? And it could be a potential source of income because if someone Like, I didn't make friends with people for the the thought that they would eventually refer me to something, but I get referrals like, oh, I can't do this job. I'm already booked. Are you available? I'd love to connect the client with you. I have, like, referral agreements with other people that if I send them stuff, they send me stuff. You know? So, like, that in itself could be, like, join associations and being parts of places where It may be considered competition.

Mhmm. Right? Like, I had a conversation with a woman this morning who lives in my area, and there's so few of us tier who do it in my area. And she's like, I don't even know you existed, and I passed on jobs recently because I didn't know you existed. Right? But I could have been like, no. I don't wanna talk to her because she's my competition. You know what I mean? And then you can get a sense How people love to work and what their values are like and if you want to be associated with them or whatever. Because, Also, like, if you might get to a point where you need to pass on something, but you know this other person would be a great fit, then you have someone to refer. Gift.

Yep. Because you have to have, like, an abundance mindset around it. Mhmm. Right? Like, you're gonna do yourself graves of service if you're just feeling like, You know, you can't share anything. Yeah. You know, like, the scarcity versus the abundance kind of vibe.

Right. Yep. I, yeah, I hear you. I'm friends with a ton of people that run events. And most people, they're just like, oh gosh. Why aren't you worried? You know? It's like, No. No. Because we all talk.

Yes. Work with this person. Don't work with this person. You know? Yeah. It's like

And I don't think clients understand this. Group. Husband. He runs a landscape company, and he didn't have someone pay him or she was threatening not to pay him. And he saw people working at that property. So He just stopped by, and he said, hey. Do you love getting paid? If you do, I would stop doing this job right now because she didn't pay me. Yeah.

And the next day, he was paid. Right. We got a a thing and a thing. Exactly. Right? It's like, I don't think they realize if they treat someone crappy, I don't think they realize that some people are very interconnected. Yes. Right?

Yep.

And then they'll spread the word. Like, don't work with this person because they'll take advantage of you or they won't agree to terms and conditions, and then they'll screw you. Like, whatever. Guy.

Yep. Yeah. Yep. Exactly. Right. You

want like, you also wanna be in those spaces talking to people in your industry dream for that reason too. Like, obviously, hopefully, that doesn't happen a lot. You're like, it does come up,

and you wanna come up.

You know? So to those

Thankfully, more often, it's more of, okay. Well, I tried this and this didn't work. You know? You tried this and that didn't work. So what is working today? Yeah. To to bounce it off like you said. To have you know, here was a good day. Here was a bad day. You know, bounce it off with somebody that knows what you're doing.

Someone who understands the nuance of your dream. You're like, oh, the vendors did this, and they'll be like, oh, vendors.

You know? Exactly. Vendors.

Yep. Get

it out and let it go.

Exactly. Because sometimes you just need to be able to vent about things, but it has to be with people who really sample.

Really helpful. Yeah.

Hopefully, that doesn't have a lot. Hopefully, it's sharing wins, which is really important too.

Yes. Absolutely. Oh my gosh. Well, thank you dough match, Ashton, for all of this. Is there anything you'd like to leave the listeners with? You've given them great information already.

No. It was great. Yeah. Thank you, Kim, for coming to my TED Talk. I got lots of things to say today. You got me in that mood.

You got me in that mood.

So yeah. No. You know, I you already shared the website, so I think that's a great place. I've been, posting more on Instagram lately, which is Ashton Minds Eye. So, yeah, I kind of hang out on many different spaces for different things, and, I'm kind of in a bit of more of the education space lately. We're trying to teach people how to do sketchnoting, and I have my book, The Beginner's Guide to Skechnoting. So if that sounds like, oh, Maybe I wanna try drawing my notes or, oh, you have a kid in school or whatever. He wants to give it a try.

I'm teaching my 10 year old now. Just kind of at that good age of of learning, so it's always a good time. So you can find the book on the websites and, Amazon and all that good stuff one.

Yeah. I'm I'm interested in and giving it a try just for some upcoming workshops, you know, just, like, run it through myself and go, hey. How how would this look? I don't know. Let's see. Yeah. And make make fun of myself while I do it as I'm learning to get better at it because it's not gonna be perfect to begin with. But, yes, I will have everything on there. You guys, if you wanna make your meetings both in person or online, more interesting Dane and more digestible as we were talking about definitely going.

And check out hiring or learning how to do it from Ashton. And thanks again for being here, Ashton. I appreciate you.

Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. Had such a good time.