In this episode, David Moore, Brand and Content Director/Operations Manager for KSLX/KDKB/KAZG, Hubbard Radio Phoenix, shares insights from over three decades in radio.

He discusses the essential skills needed to thrive in today’s rapidly evolving industry, the importance of staying "plugged in," and the evolving role of radio program managers.

David also highlights the power of talent in creating engaging content and offers strategies for overcoming challenges and fostering collaboration with sales teams. A great episode for valuable advice and strategies from one of the industry’s most experienced professionals.

Visit: David Moore - LinkedIn KSLX - Facebook KSLX - X (Twitter)

Hubbard Broadcasting/Phoenix

One Minute Martinizing by David Martin

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A lot of my talent will tell you, what are they doing

2

on the other side of the speakers?

3

I talk a lot about you're speaking to

somebody who may be driving for DoorDash.

4

Remember that.

5

These are people who are working jobs that

luckily we're not working, and it's tough.

6

It's still pretty glamorous on this side.

7

VO: BRANDwidth on Demand.

8

Rebooting radio with a different

take on all radio can be.

9

David Moore: Every one of the digital

companies, Apple and Amazon, they're

10

all going to create radio, right?

11

Every time the same thing happens.

12

They create radio and then they

go, Oh, wow, this is really hard.

13

Nobody's paying attention.

14

And gosh, it's not just like

throwing a bunch of songs on a feed.

15

I can't quite figure out why they

don't want to listen to our classic

16

rock feed that's so well done because

it's all available everywhere.

17

You gotta do things that touch people's

hearts, that they give a crap about.

18

VO: Now your guides through the

mediamorphosis, David Martin, and

19

author of the book, BRANDwidth,

media branding coach, Kipper McGee.

20

Dave Martin: Well this time

we're joined by a veteran of the

21

broadcast wars with over three

decades of broadcast experience.

22

And by the way, almost

all of it, a big success.

23

Yeah.

24

As the program director for

Hubbard's Classic Rock 100.

25

7 KSLX in Phoenix, he has been

instrumental in driving the

26

station's success, including

the successful transition of the

27

Mark and the Leander Paul morning

show to Dave and Mahoney show.

28

Previously, he served as operations

manager at Intercom in Madison,

29

overseeing multiple stations, all

successful, held key roles as program

30

director of WFYV in Jacksonville.

31

And W O C T in Baltimore, among others

is innovative approach and commitment to

32

excellence have earned him numerous awards

and nominations, including accolades from

33

the New York festivals, radio awards,

Canadian radio awards, so many more.

34

We won't even have time to mention them.

35

We want to welcome David Moore.

36

Hey, David.

37

Kipper.

38

Glad to be here.

39

Kipper McGee: We are glad to have you.

40

So with all the changes and constants

that we're going through right now in the

41

industry, what key skills do you think

are essential for success, whether on

42

air or in management in today's industry?

43

David Moore: You know, things

change quickly, more rapidly

44

than ever before in the business.

45

And I think being plugged in, knowing

what's going on asking questions.

46

I read a lot.

47

I listen a lot.

48

I want to know what's going on.

49

I think that the industry has never been

more challenged at the same time, it's in

50

many ways, never been more interesting.

51

I look back to when I programmed Arrow

in Nashville back in the mid nineties

52

and the Arrow format was very rigid,

very it was very modal if you will.

53

And I can remember I did

three hours on the air.

54

Scheduled some music, wrote

a few promos and whatnot.

55

I was kind of done for the day.

56

You know, it was kind of dull.

57

I don't have days like that.

58

I haven't had days like

that the last two decades.

59

Those days are gone.

60

I think that if you're doing it

now, if you've been able to succeed

61

now, you're probably pretty good.

62

You've had to keep up.

63

And I work for Hubbard where we have

tools and things that, that help.

64

I mean, you know, we're,

we're pretty plugged in.

65

Are you studying the tech survey?

66

Are you studying share of ear?

67

Because man, there's a lot of data there.

68

Are you really digging into

your programmer's package?

69

All those kinds of things.

70

You know what I look for in that stuff.

71

I'm looking for threading.

72

I'm looking for, okay, what does it mean?

73

16 percent of the KSLX audience

in the tech survey is engaged with

74

Spotify for an hour or more a week.

75

I don't know what that

means, but I do know that.

76

I find sometimes when I talk to

programmers that maybe they're

77

not doing as much of that as

they should, what that's worth.

78

Dave Martin: Well, Dave, titles have

changed from program director to brand

79

manager to content czar and probably

some new ones we haven't even heard of.

80

In reality, how has the role

of radio program manager

81

evolved over the past decade?

82

You said there has been some big

changes in the last two decades.

83

What changes do you

anticipate in the future?

84

David Moore: Well, you've got to

be super plugged into revenue.

85

You need to be able to work with AEs

and sales managers and promotions

86

teams and digital teams to create

opportunities that, you know, I

87

look for stuff that the audience

is into that we can make money on.

88

For example, on KSLX, there's some

sort of special weekend every weekend.

89

That is, you know, it could be something

like a block party weekend or whatever,

90

but it might be we do these things called

inflation busting winning weekends.

91

And those are where you went up concert

package to three or four concerts at once.

92

So on something like that, for example,

one that requires knowing about,

93

Hey, is inflation still a thing?

94

Yeah.

95

It's still a thing.

96

Is that sort of taking something like,

Hey, we've got some concert tickets.

97

You know, we give away concert tickets

all the time, obviously, so we turn

98

that into something that is a little

more than just your standard giveaway.

99

I think going forward, we compete

against our other radio brands, but we're

100

obviously competing against all of the

other audio sources that are available.

101

One of the things that is interesting

to me today is that every one of the

102

pure plays or every one of the digital

companies, Apple and Amazon, they're

103

all going to create radio, right?

104

And every time the same thing happens,

they create radio and then they

105

go, Oh, wow, this is really hard.

106

Nobody's paying attention.

107

And gosh, it's not just like

throwing a bunch of songs on a feed.

108

I can't quite figure out why they

don't want to listen to our classic

109

rock feed that's so well done because

it's all available everywhere.

110

You know, you got to do things

that touch people's hearts

111

that they give a crap about.

112

And back in the day, 30 years ago,

You can get away with having your

113

music right and doing some promotions

and you'll probably be successful.

114

Kipper McGee: Right.

115

So speaking of success, what

other strategies are you finding

116

successful to engage and retain your

audience, especially given the high

117

competition between radio and other?

118

David Moore: The first and

foremost thing is talent.

119

Um, Bye.

120

You've got to have, it's very challenging.

121

I mean, look in every market,

there's probably room for, I mean,

122

here we have the mountain that

really doesn't have talent on it.

123

It has guys named Mountain

Man Jay, and it does well.

124

And there's generally room.

125

For a non-talent jukeboxy radio station.

126

That's not what we're doing.

127

Or do I think that that's viable

for basically more than one

128

or two stations at a market.

129

So here it's the right talent.

130

That's the secret sauce.

131

You mentioned going from Mark and

Neanderthal to Dave and Mahoney.

132

That was when Mark retired you know,

Mark and Neanderthal were successful.

133

It felt like the show was in a

really good place at that point.

134

We'd worked really hard on it, but

you know, Mark was done and we had

135

an opportunity to hire Dave and

Mahoney, so we brought in a show

136

that is obviously very different,

but also a high level show.

137

Additionally.

138

Not only is it a good show, but

I don't like hiring assholes.

139

And they're not, and

they're really good people.

140

They have a great attitude.

141

To give you an example of what kind

of people these guys are, they had

142

their one year anniversary recently.

143

And so.

144

They brought in an omelet bar for the

AEs because they've made so much money on

145

the AEs selling them into endorsements.

146

Now, I don't know a lot of morning

shows that would do something like that.

147

I'll tell you this, those guys can't

get out of the way of endorsements.

148

And the AEs love them.

149

That is how you get successful.

150

Kipper McGee: Right.

151

David Moore: There's not

a bunch of crap going on.

152

That is partially done

because, we have Trip Reeb.

153

Trip's a great leader.

154

It's that kind of an operation.

155

Dave Martin: Well, David, you've had

more than your share of significant

156

challenges during your career.

157

How have you overcome them?

158

Boiling it all down.

159

What advice can you give folks

when they're running into

160

significant challenges and problems?

161

David Moore: I'll tell you what I do, and

I don't know that this is for everyone.

162

When I get challenged.

163

When I get into a zone of where I feel

like I have an insurmountable issue,

164

a problem I'm not coming up with an

answer to, I do a couple of things.

165

One is, I mean, I read a lot.

166

I try to read something that says

this is how you fix this problem.

167

I've had talents in the past where

I just, I couldn't quite figure

168

out how to get through to them.

169

I didn't feel like I was coaching them

or leading them correctly and maybe

170

they just weren't buying into it.

171

I just wasn't getting through.

172

So they seem to have sort

of an issue with authority.

173

You know what I mean?

174

By the way, not unusual in someone who's

chosen to sit in a little room and play

175

songs and talk themselves in between.

176

And we all, we are

doing this for a reason.

177

This, there are other ways to make a

living that might be a little more stable.

178

But in that case, I might go, okay, if

this person, maybe they've had a lot

179

of childhood trauma, maybe they don't

trust, maybe they've had a lot of crappy

180

programmers and things like that, they

have to know that I care about them and

181

that I trust them and stuff like that.

182

The biggest challenges, for example,

that I've personally encountered,

183

almost all of them are the same.

184

You've got a radio

station that is messed up.

185

And you've got to fix it.

186

Sometimes you take over a radio station

and you're just the latest poor sucker

187

that got stuck with that thing, right?

188

There are brands like that and you

got to manage your expectations,

189

but you also have to, you have

to live in the real world.

190

What can you do with it?

191

I would say this, I think I'm pretty good

at finding ways of solving these things.

192

I think I'm pretty good at identifying.

193

Okay.

194

If we know this and we know

this, and we know this.

195

That probably this is true.

196

And we can proceed in terms of what skills

you need to do this job going forward.

197

Look, you need to be

plugged into the music.

198

And when I say the music,

let me back that up.

199

You need to be plugged into the tribe.

200

You need to understand your people.

201

Here I have three radio stations.

202

I have KSLX, my main

station, Classic Rock.

203

That's pretty much what I've done.

204

I mean, I've scheduled the Joker by

Steve Miller on a radio station since

205

1989 every single day, so, so, so I

thank Steve Miller and John Lennon

206

and people like that for my career.

207

So, you've got to be plugged

into your audience and here, you

208

know, we have a classic rock,

but we also have Alt AC, which.

209

When I took over all day Z,

it wasn't in great shape.

210

And I will tell you, I made a couple

of really big errors on it that

211

kept it in bad shape for a while.

212

I think we just figured that

out 18 months to two years ago.

213

And that was a challenge.

214

And the part of the challenge there

is, to not give up, to not overreact.

215

And to always remember inside thinkers

are worrying about minutiae and

216

things that don't really matter.

217

In programming, you gotta put yourself

on the other side of the speakers

218

in, in, in that environment, and

from that moment forward, a lot of

219

my talent will tell you, I talk about

that all the time, what are they doing

220

on the other side of the speakers?

221

You're speaking to somebody who

may be driving from DoorDash.

222

Remember that these are people

who are working jobs that

223

luckily we're not working.

224

And it's tough, but still

pretty glamorous on this side.

225

Kipper McGee: Well, we know that what we

do is considered show biz, like you said.

226

It's got to be a balance

between the show and the biz.

227

Can you shed some light

on how you go about that?

228

Is that like a quarterly planning thing?

229

Is it something you do in

the hallways on the fly?

230

How does it work?

231

David Moore: I think

it's baked into the DNA.

232

Yeah.

233

First of all, you have to

have a relationship with your

234

sales manager that's good.

235

It's easy.

236

Bob Weaver is the sales manager for KSLX.

237

He's a great guy.

238

Susan Karas is our director of sales.

239

We have a great relationship.

240

You know, we're all rowing

in the same direction.

241

Part of it is a credibility thing, right?

242

I think that they know that I'm not

going to stand in the way of us making

243

revenue provided I can figure out a way

to at least have it do no harm, right?

244

You know, I operate on the

hippocratic oath first.

245

Okay, we can do that.

246

We can make money on it.

247

It's not going to harm the radio station.

248

I don't know if it's going to work,

but you guys think it'll work.

249

And I've once or twice

been wrong about something.

250

So maybe this is another time that I

think it won't work and it will, um,

251

maybe once or twice or three times.

252

And so.

253

That's hard if you have a dogmatic

sales manager, who's maybe not

254

on the same page, but also, these

sales managers, they've been burned

255

by people in this job before too.

256

And there's a lot of us who do

this, who maybe are jerks sometimes.

257

And I try not to be, maybe they

would say differently, but I

258

try not to be a jerk about it.

259

And I want us to make money.

260

You know what I mean?

261

There's nothing sadder than being

at a commercial radio station

262

And not having many commercials.

263

It's great.

264

If you're in Nielsen for a period of

time, ultimately, nobody's going to make

265

any money and nobody's going to be happy.

266

And again, I'm lucky here.

267

I have great AEs, but I have

a great sales management team.

268

That's just not the case everywhere.

269

Look, I've been in places where

I had a different GM every 18

270

months, and that's challenging.

271

Dave Martin: One sharp guy, David

Moore from Hubbard in Phoenix.

272

Hey, you know, someone we should

interview or a topic we should cover?

273

Well, let us know.

274

We welcome your suggestions

show@brandwithondemand.com is the

275

email show@brandwithondemand.Com

or reach out on social.

276

BRANDwidthplus on Instagram,

Facebook and X that's BRAMDwidthPlus

277

P L U S BRANDwidth plus.

278

Kipper McGee: And if you're new to the

podcast, we are so glad you're here.

279

Welcome...

280

and be sure to hit the follow button

wherever you get those podcasts.

281

And please be sure to tell a

friend BRANDwidth on Demand

282

wherever they get podcasts.

283

Cause our goal is to assist you

in mastering your audio craft.

284

Dave Martin: Coming up, David

Moore shares some advice,

285

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286

Special.

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Unique.

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VO: Listen today, lead

tomorrow BRANDwidth On Demand.

314

Dave Martin: We are with Dave

Moore today, one of the best

315

and brightest in our business.

316

Dave, what's the one single best

piece of advice you've ever gotten?

317

David Moore: When I interviewed

as an intern at WRIF.

318

When I was in college in Detroit, um,

there was a guy named Mark Pasman, who

319

was the assistant program director.

320

And he went on to be a

programmer for a while.

321

I told him when I walked in, I said,

well, I'm working on the college

322

station and I've got a job as a board

op at an AM station in the city in

323

Detroit like Sunday nights, where I run

the religious programming and stuff.

324

And now I want to do this internship.

325

And he said, that's really smart.

326

Cause you should do everything,

learn everything you can.

327

About doing this and

you'll be employed forever.

328

If you can do that, if you could

learn all of the parts of the

329

businesses, you can and continue

just say yes, say yes to everything.

330

And so from that internship, I started

a career and it worked and he was right.

331

He was absolutely right.

332

The more that you do.

333

The better it was.

334

So that almost literally on

day one of my career almost.

335

So I never forgot it.

336

Dave Martin: It's really great advice.

337

Now, what's the best advice

you've ever given David?

338

David Moore: That's a

really tough question.

339

I think the best advice I've given

is to fake it until you make it.

340

, you don't necessarily have this

figured out yet in terms of air talent.

341

So you're pretty rough here.

342

Um, here's what I need you to do.

343

I need you to sound like

this person to begin with.

344

Do you hear this?

345

You hear how Karen D'Alessandro sounds by

the way, Kipper, Karen D'Alessandro and

346

I worked together in Detroit and I was

told by the assistant program director,

347

you should really sound more like Karen.

348

You know, she sounds happy.

349

Kipper McGee: Good advice.

350

David Moore: Yeah.

351

So to try to find the parts of your

personality that are appealing.

352

So if you're, quick witted

let's work with that.

353

Okay.

354

If you are a real music head and you

really are into music knowledge or

355

whatever, then let's work with that.

356

So in the case of Karen

D'Alessandro, Karen's very energetic.

357

Karen's very positive, very up.

358

We focus on that, you

know, work with that.

359

You can't make a cynical

person, not cynical.

360

You can't make.

361

An unfunny person.

362

Funny.

363

I can't coach to woo or charisma but

I can coach to taking those things

364

and going, okay let's run with that.

365

Dave Martin: Bring out the best in others.

366

Right?

367

David Moore: Yeah, I guess

that's, yeah, I guess that's it.

368

I think I'm pretty good

at helping people do that.

369

But in terms of advice like that, like

the advice that Mark Paman gave me.

370

I'm not coming up with anything that I

have that I think has been that profound.

371

It may be because I never stopped

talking and I just can't remember

372

because I just talk constantly.

373

So I probably give a lot of advice.

374

Dave Martin: Wow.

375

We can all learn something

from David Moore Kipper.

376

Links to KSLX and more

all in the show notes.

377

Just scroll down on your phone

or find it at brandwithondemand.

378

com.

379

Kipper McGee: Our thanks to executive

producer, Producer Cindy Huber for

380

getting everything together here

and to associate producer Hannah

381

B for booking And coming up next,

382

Steven Goldstein: I think radio has

waited too long to deal with on demand

383

strategies in a significant way.

384

If you don't build out the next

generation, then you are sorry,

385

AM radio or your telephone boards.

386

You're just not as important,

387

Dave Martin: We can all learn

something from Steve Goldstein,

388

the Amplify Media founder and CEO.

389

Kipper McGee: And Steve joins us next.

390

Dave Martin: That's a wrap, Kipper.

391

Connecting with the audience in

the moment, that's the topic of

392

this week's One Minute Martinizing.

393

I'm Dave Martin.

394

Kipper McGee: And I'm Kipper McGee.

395

May all your BRANDwidth be wide.