The thylacine of Tasmania becomes the ghost tiger of the Feywild: a tragic figure as enchanting as it is terrifying. Get three extinct animals raised to life as monsters in D&D: https://store.magehandpress.com/products/book-of-extinction-preview
Episode transcript: https://scintilla.studio/monster-extinction-thylacine/
Guides:
Steve Sullivan, Director of the Hefner Museum of Natural History at Miami University
http://miamioh.edu/cas/academics/centers/hefner-museum/
Kieran Suckling, Executive Director and Founder of the Center for Biological Diversity
https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/
Andrew Coons, First Watch:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu5p4VD1CxwndFhal7DF0mA
House Sivis Echoer Station:
https://www.sivisechoerstation.com/echoes/cyre-once-again
"Extinction Theme" by Alexandre Miller, The Boy King of Idaho
Like this stat block? Did I miss something? Let me know on Twitter: www.twitter.com/SparkOtter
Welcome to Making a Monster: Extinction.
Lucas:This is the companion podcast to Book of Extinction, a monster manual where
Lucas:animals lost to the natural world are resurrected for Dungeons & Dragons.
Lucas:Every episode features one of the creatures in that book and shows you
Lucas:how we expressed its history, ecology and folklore in a D&D stat block.
Lucas:This episode, the thylacine.
Lucas:A study in four parts.
Part the first:what am I looking at?
Part the first:Usually when we think of extinction, we think of cave paintings or fossils
Part the first:or colonial era field notes, but as the sixth mass extinction of life on
Part the first:earth accelerates, we find ourselves more and more often with pictures.
Part the first:In a case of at least one, we have video.
Old Timey Man:The Tasmanian tiger, easily distinguished by his striped, unjointed
Old Timey Man:tail, is also a dangerous opponent.
Old Timey Man:Though, like the devil, is now very rar,e being forced out of its natural
Old Timey Man:habitat by the march of civilization.
Old Timey Man:This is the only one in captivity in the world.
Andrew Coons:So it's some sort of - man, it looks dog-like.
Rebecca Gray:If I was like blindly telling an artist how to draw
Rebecca Gray:this, I would say a mangy almost.
Rebecca Gray:Hairless short hair, dog, a wild dog for the front.
Andrew Coons:Like the face looks like a dog slash bear.
Lucas:I am disappointed it doesn't open its mouth.
Steve - Sivis:Oh my God.
Steve - Sivis:I would love to see that.
Steve - Sivis:What is, what is going on in there, sir?
Andrew Coons:And then the body is quite dog-like, but the tail is like long.
Andrew Coons:And like stocky and the S it's got stripes, but only on the butt?
Andrew Coons:That, what?
Rebecca Gray:The ass of a zebra.
Rebecca Gray:Cause that just looks like a zebra.
Steve - Sivis:I will say it does have the zebra stripes.
Rebecca Gray:And then cheetah legs, back legs, without the spots.
Rebecca Gray:And then, what you would draw if you were eight years old and trying to draw a tail,
Steve - Sivis:Yeah, that's, just like a little stick right out the back.
Rebecca Gray:Yeah, it doesn't move.
Steve - Sivis:Start with the back half of a, like, uh, the tiger.
Steve - Sivis:You're going to work really hard on that.
Steve - Sivis:You're going to put in the lines and all that, and you're just going to
Steve - Sivis:get really bored about midway through and stop doing the lines altogether.
Steve - Sivis:And then just, just make that face a little longer than normal.
Rebecca Gray:Yeah.
Andrew Coons:And the head itself seems to be like a little bit,
Andrew Coons:almost too big for the body.
Andrew Coons:Like the proportions are a little bit off.
Andrew Coons:I don't know if it's that the legs are too short or the body's not quite as
Andrew Coons:long as I would've expected it to be, but yeah, like a dog bear, or like, almost a
Andrew Coons:lion face, but with a longer snout, short fur, stripes only on the back are weird.
Andrew Coons:That's an odd thing.
Andrew Coons:Maybe hyena, like is the closest thing.
Andrew Coons:Like it doesn't have the proportions of a hyena, but just kind of in its
Andrew Coons:general weirdness, that's probably the closest thing I would equate it to.
Andrew Coons:Yeah.
Andrew Coons:The thylacine, I don't know what to make of that.
Steve - Sivis:Pretend you and your spouse are working separately on it.
Andrew Coons:That's an odd one.
Andrew Coons:Nature's amazing.
Lucas:That was Andrew Coons, dungeon master for first watch D&D,
Lucas:along with Steve and Becca from the House Sivis Echoer Station podcast.
Lucas:I asked them to take a look at footage of Benjamin.
Lucas:The last living thylacine in the world.
Lucas:Benjamin is one of the world's most famous endlings like Martha the
Lucas:passenger pigeon, Incas the Carolina parakeet, and Celia the Pyrenean ibex.
Lucas:The footage from the 1935 travel documentary "Tasmania the
Lucas:Wonderland" shows Benjamin pacing his concrete, wire-topped enclosure
Lucas:at the Beaumaris Zoo in Hobart.
Lucas:The footage was discovered and restored by the National Film and
Lucas:Sound Archive of Australia and released to the public in May 2020.
Lucas:The difficulty in describing this creature brought difficulty in naming it.
Lucas:It's called the Tasmanian tiger for its stripes, the Tasmanian wolf for
Lucas:its snout and ears, occasionally the Tasmanian hyena, even though
Lucas:as you've heard it doesn't truly resemble any of those things.
Lucas:There's no other creature on earth quite like the thylacine.
Lucas:It's uncanny in the way that fairytales are uncanny - the
Lucas:world through a looking glass.
Lucas:So let's take our thylacine and make a monster.
Lucas:If you want to follow along with this build, you can go
Lucas:to scintilla.studio/extinction right now to download a digital
Lucas:preview of Book of Extinction.
Lucas:There is a statlock for the real historical thylacine as well
Lucas:as one for the magical version, we'll be creating along the way.
Lucas:Go ahead.
Lucas:There's a short musical cue before we go on anyway, you've got time.
Lucas:And here it is:
Part the second:Fairy Land.
Part the second:Benjamin's ancestors developed in the dense old growth forests of Tasmania,
Part the second:an isolated island ecosystem slightly askew from the rest of the world.
Part the second:In D&D's pan-cultural usage, it could easily be described
Part the second:as fifth edition's feywild.
Part the second:It's at this point that I would like to describe in detail those primeval
Part the second:forests or how the island's ecology differed from inland to coast or the land
Part the second:management of the Aboriginal people there.
Part the second:I've delayed this podcast several times looking for that information.
Part the second:The trouble is it doesn't seem to exist.
Part the second:Even John West's definitive work The History of Tasmania devotes only 36 of its
Part the second:1,100 pages to the time before the first penal colony was established in 1803.
Part the second:And those pages mostly cover the details of the first expeditions to the island.
Part the second:There's something to be said here about the colonialist nature of the archetypical
Part the second:D&D adventure and how those with a written culture always supersede those
Part the second:without one, but it's out of place here.
Part the second:Check out the GM Edition episode on Fun City for that particular digression.
Part the second:It carries my point that the native fauna of Tasmania are so often
Part the second:endemic to it, and so dissimilar from others in their ecological niche.
Part the second:In other words, weird stuff lived there that didn't live anywhere else.
Part the second:Where elsewhere you would find a beaver, Tasmania had the platypus, an
Part the second:egg-laying, duck-billed, beaver-tailed, otter-footed, venomous mammal so bizarre
Part the second:the first specimens were condemned as fakes sewn together from random bits.
Part the second:Where Africa has the meerkat and the molerat, Tasmania has the bandicoot,
Part the second:a kitten-sized omnivorous digger with a plump, arched back and a long
Part the second:snout full of sharp little teeth.
Part the second:Where Europe had badgers and ferrets, Tasmania had Tasmanian devils, squat
Part the second:screaming 18-pound marsupial capable of generating the strongest bite per unit of
Part the second:body mass of any predatory land mammal.
Part the second:And where the Americas had wolves and coyotes, Tasmania had thylacines.
Part the second:The first people with a written culture, and therefore a historical record,
Part the second:to seriously attempt to living among this outlandish Tasmanian menagerie
Part the second:were the 308 convicts who left London in 1803 on board the Calcutta.
Part the second:They were a cross section of Europe.
Part the second:To quote James Boyce's book Van Diemen's Land: "There were six or seven Jews from
Part the second:the east end of London, a Pole, a German, a Portuguese, two Dutch, an Afro-American
Part the second:– the violin player William Thomas – and the French confectioner, Nicholas Piroelle.
Part the second:There were also 17 Irish, at least eight Scots, and the same
Part the second:number of Welsh," endquote.
Part the second:This is not to mention the seven English mutineers, the wealthy
Part the second:landowner James Grove, and Robert Cooper, the 57 year old Romani.
Part the second:I have to assume Gilligan and the skipper were there with the professor and Marianne
Part the second:in tow, but you know, that's just me.
Part the second:To them, Tasmania must have seemed like Anwyn, Tir Na Nog, Avalon, Mag Mell,
more likely, all of the above:the otherworld, the supernatural realm,
more likely, all of the above:the mirror planes common to each of the settlers' myths and storytelling.
more likely, all of the above:In D&D, that's the feywild.
more likely, all of the above:So if we're going to bring the thylacine to D&D, it has to be a fey creature.
Part the third:fear love, and denial.
Part the third:We make monsters out of what we fear and forbid.
Part the third:So our monsters change as often as our morals do.
Part the third:And sometimes those monsters become casualties.
Part the third:Professor Asa Mittman once told me the drinking game of monster
Part the third:studies - the academic study of monsters in art and literature - is
Part the third:Jeffrey Jerome Cohen's 1996 essay "Monster Culture: seven theses."
Part the third:The sixth thesis is that fear of the monster is really a kind of desire.
Part the third:Cohen argues that monsters cross or police boundaries to the forbidden,
Part the third:making them escapist fantasies.
Part the third:Quote, “We distrust and loathe the monster at the same time we envy its freedom.”
Part the third:D&D gives me the opportunity to take a more literal approach to
Part the third:the fear and love of the monster.
Part the third:Often you see monsters in this game, like dragons who can inspire
Part the third:fear with mechanical consequences just by their very presence.
Part the third:The opposite mechanic is charm effects, where creatures can enchant or enthrall.
Part the third:You almost never see these two things together, usually because
Part the third:they accomplish the same narrative objective: our emotional reaction
Part the third:to the monster overwhelms our ability to act rightly toward it.
Part the third:But for my money, the monster thylacine needs both.
Part the third:And here's why.
Part the third:I grew up in the 1990s, where conservation movements focused
Part the third:on the charismatic megafauna.
Part the third:As I absorbed it, this was the formula: we need to save the arctic,
Part the third:so we get people to care about the polar bear who lives there.
Part the third:We need to save the wetlands, so we get people to care about the
Part the third:great blue heron who lives there.
Part the third:Even Book of Extinction, I'll admit, follows the same formula,
Part the third:but our monsters as border guards and exemplars fulfill the same role.
Part the third:Here's Steve Sullivan again:
Steve Sullivan:We've mentioned charismatic species a little bit.
Steve Sullivan:Uh, there's a phrase I, I forget who coined it, but, um, "God had an
Steve Sullivan:inordinate fondness for beetles."
Steve Sullivan:And that's a recognition of the fact that there are more beetles than
Steve Sullivan:basically anything else, at least as far as we know, and have looked.
Steve Sullivan:And the fact of the matter is, is that we are ice age relic giants.
Steve Sullivan:Most organisms are not as big as us.
Steve Sullivan:We are vertebrates.
Steve Sullivan:We have imagination, creativity.
Steve Sullivan:That's kind of our power relative to all other species.
Steve Sullivan:And we are also very self-centered.
Steve Sullivan:Fair enough.
Steve Sullivan:Uh, and so we look at things that look like us.
Steve Sullivan:We think about the primates first.
Steve Sullivan:Of course, that doesn't mean we're not going to cause their extinction.
Steve Sullivan:We're working really hard towards causing their extinction - orangutans and all
Steve Sullivan:the Palm oil you've already consumed today are a great example of that.
Steve Sullivan:But then we look at fuzzy things.
Steve Sullivan:We look at things with stereoscopic eyes like us.
Steve Sullivan:We look at things with eyes on the side of the head, if they're useful for us to eat.
Steve Sullivan:And then we look at colorful things because we're color vision
Steve Sullivan:primates - most animals of course see in some kind of monochrome.
Steve Sullivan:So if it's a scarlet macaw, we think it's neat.
Steve Sullivan:If we think it's a Spix's macaw, the blue one, we only think that's neat when we
Steve Sullivan:suddenly realized that it was the star of a Disney or Pixar movie or something.
Steve Sullivan:And now golly, it's extinct in the wild, I guess I feel badly about that, but I can't
Steve Sullivan:differentiate that from a hyacinth macaw because I frankly don't care that much.
Steve Sullivan:And then we go on down the road to less and less and less charismatic things
Steve Sullivan:that maybe sometimes are less impacted by us, but certainly not always, um,
Steve Sullivan:think about all of the amazing life that lives under the ground and has
Steve Sullivan:evolved there and is amelanistic, that means, you know, it has no melanin.
Steve Sullivan:Um, so these, these blind cave, salamanders, blind cave fish, blind
Steve Sullivan:amphipods, we emphasize they're blind because vision is so important to us.
Steve Sullivan:They don't care that they're blind.
Steve Sullivan:They're more functional down there than we are.
Steve Sullivan:But then we suck the groundwater out, we frack the groundwater to deathly
Steve Sullivan:pollution, and don't care one wit about them, at least not enough to go down
Steve Sullivan:and say, do they exist or to simply imagine, yeah, they probably exist.
Steve Sullivan:Worms in the Willamette Valley, Oregon, Washington, California area
Steve Sullivan:worms that are probably six to 10 feet long and as big around as your arm.
Steve Sullivan:And that might live for decades, maybe longer, but are probably extinct because
Steve Sullivan:we build freeways that cause vibrations to go down to where they live, that
Steve Sullivan:stress them out so much that they can't reproduce and eventually they die.
Steve Sullivan:Certainly worms like that, that live in Gippsland,
Steve Sullivan:Australia, who knows about them?
Steve Sullivan:Who cares about them?
Steve Sullivan:And to some extent, do you, as an individual need to know about them?
Steve Sullivan:You know, people will ask me about sports teams.
Steve Sullivan:Okay.
Steve Sullivan:Cool.
Steve Sullivan:Do I need to know and care about every bit of diversity
Steve Sullivan:of sports or cars or whatever?
Steve Sullivan:No.
Steve Sullivan:And I don't expect you to know or care about all the different species, but the
Steve Sullivan:question becomes why prevent extinction?
Steve Sullivan:And when I ask that to the average person on the street, why should
Steve Sullivan:I prevent the extinction of the thylacine, the passenger pigeon?
Steve Sullivan:And they look at it and like, well, what good is it?
Steve Sullivan:So my question in return is, well, what good is a horse?
Steve Sullivan:Oh, well, it gives you transportation.
Steve Sullivan:Oh, really?
Steve Sullivan:Do you ride a horse?
Steve Sullivan:Now, if you're poor, you know how to ride a water buffalo.
Steve Sullivan:And frankly, water buffalo have utility.
Steve Sullivan:A lot of people rely on those for raising their food.
Steve Sullivan:Okay.
Steve Sullivan:So maybe at this point, why prevent extinction?
Steve Sullivan:What use is it?
Steve Sullivan:What utility is it?
Steve Sullivan:Maybe horses.
Steve Sullivan:They can go extinct, but water buffalo shouldn't.
Steve Sullivan:But as soon as everybody gets a solar powered tractor from Tesla, meh, water
Steve Sullivan:buffaloes they're anachronistic too.
Steve Sullivan:Well, is that true?
Steve Sullivan:Do you like mozzarella from water buffalo or from cows?
Steve Sullivan:If you're an afficionado, you say water buffaloes.
Steve Sullivan:Okay.
Steve Sullivan:So they're good.
Steve Sullivan:We can keep those.
Steve Sullivan:Horses?
Steve Sullivan:Dang it, I still haven't found a good use for those yet.
Steve Sullivan:Okay.
Steve Sullivan:So I guess they're extinct.
Steve Sullivan:Silly argument, right?
Steve Sullivan:What good is it?
Steve Sullivan:That's a totally silly argument.
Steve Sullivan:Okay.
Steve Sullivan:Well, is it?
Steve Sullivan:Well, Monarch butterflies, are they pretty sure?
Steve Sullivan:And that's why everybody tracks monarch butterflies and plants milkweed and stuff.
Steve Sullivan:But, you know, tell me about your, your beauty underwing moth.
Steve Sullivan:How much do you all care about that one?
Steve Sullivan:It's brown on top, but it's pretty on underneath.
Steve Sullivan:It's got red and black.
Steve Sullivan:Nobody knows what that is.
Steve Sullivan:And besides which, you think that bell bottoms and tank tops are cool and I
Steve Sullivan:think that ballgowns and corsets are cool.
Steve Sullivan:Our sense of aesthetics are very different.
Steve Sullivan:Who's to say what aesthetics are?
Steve Sullivan:And when it comes to organisms, we look at the gila monster
Steve Sullivan:or the Mexican beaded lizard.
Steve Sullivan:Ugly, according to some people, creepy.
Steve Sullivan:Certainly places that want to develop vast tracts of land in the American southwest
Steve Sullivan:think it's awful because one gila monster sits under that same rock for six to nine
Steve Sullivan:months out of the year and if I build a parking lot on that, I'm going to kill it.
Steve Sullivan:And if it's listed as an endangered species, I can't build my parking lot.
Steve Sullivan:So I can't make my money, which gosh means I'm not going to
Steve Sullivan:improve your local economy.
Steve Sullivan:You should let me kill that gila monster.
Steve Sullivan:Besides which it's ugly and dangerous.
Steve Sullivan:It's venomous.
Steve Sullivan:It's going to kill you!
Steve Sullivan:Well, but then it turns out we can make certain forms of treatment for type
Steve Sullivan:II diabetes using gila monster venom.
Steve Sullivan:Well, now it's not so useless anymore, is it?
Steve Sullivan:It jumped into that first category beyond horses and up with water buffalo.
Steve Sullivan:But now I figured out how to synthesize that venom component using
Steve Sullivan:transgenic bacteria in vats that were originally designed for beer brewing.
Steve Sullivan:Okay, great.
Steve Sullivan:Now we can kill off the gila monsters.
Steve Sullivan:Phew, wanted to get rid of them anyway, I need another shopping mall.
Steve Sullivan:So what it fundamentally boils down to is ethics.
Steve Sullivan:Who are you?
Steve Sullivan:Who am I to look at something and say, you're too useless, you're
Steve Sullivan:too ugly, you deserve to die.
Steve Sullivan:I can remain ignorant of you and kill you off and not feel badly.
Lucas:It's the same fear and love we have for monsters.
Lucas:And it turns on a dime.
Lucas:I was reading The Once and Future World by J.B.
Lucas:MacKinnon.
Lucas:He argues that fear and love for animals are two sides of the same
Lucas:coin, and that coin is denial.
Lucas:At first, the shy, elusive, nocturnal thylacine was a lucky
Lucas:encounter, but to quote MacKinnon:
Lucas:"As European-style fields and farms spread over the Tasmanian landscape,
Lucas:however, reports began to spread of thylacines killing sheep and chicken.
Lucas:The losses appear never to have been very great, but the thylacine
Lucas:was quickly made into a monster.
Lucas:Where once a settler might write of 'feeling very lucky to have been so
Lucas:close to a tiger' or remark that, in Tasmania, 'there is nothing that will
Lucas:hurt a man but a snake,' suddenly, the thylacine was so feared and hated
Lucas:that men who killed one often burned its skin and smashed its bones.
Lucas:The idea of dying in the fangs of a thylacine took on a nightmare quality.
Lucas:The animals were said to kill like vampires draining their victims of blood.
Lucas:Having gained supernatural powers through human storytelling, the thylacine was
Lucas:denied its flesh and blood vulnerability.
Lucas:By the late 1800s,when scientists were having difficulty finding any thylacines
Lucas:at all, sheep ranchers still claimed the hills were infested with them."
Lucas:Next, in order to explain the disappearance of native Tasmanian animals
Lucas:as European settlement altered the landscape, science denied they were fit
Lucas:- calling them "idiotic" and the primitive result of an evolutionary backwater.
Lucas:Then as Benjamin's death made the thylacine well and truly extinct after a
Lucas:century of habitat loss and extermination campaigns, some denied having known the
Lucas:species was that close to the brink.
Lucas:This, despite at least 25 warnings about the thylacines increasing scarcity.
Lucas:From the moment of Benjamin's death, MacKinnon writes, the species has
Lucas:been subject to the only act of denial still available: it has been
Lucas:refused the finality of extinction.
Lucas:Personally, I've read at least three books during this project claiming the thylacine
Lucas:is still alive despite 85 years without hard evidence of a living specimen.
Lucas:In monster terms, the thylacine might as well be Bigfoot.
Part the Fourth:the extinction of magic.
Part the Fourth:I don't tell this story to make you feel guilty.
Part the Fourth:I really don't.
Part the Fourth:I tell you this story because I want you to understand the relationship.
Part the Fourth:Natural history has to the bulk of fantasy literature that D&D, players love so much.
Part the Fourth:The trail of mythology through Linnaeus's taxonomy is something else that I would
Part the Fourth:love to explore, uh, and I just want to get your thoughts on one example,
Part the Fourth:the Tasmanian tiger it's, uh, it's designation is thylacinus cynocephalus,
Part the Fourth:and I think I know where that comes from, but you're nodding knowingly.
Part the Fourth:Uh, um,
Kieran Suckling:Yeah.
Kieran Suckling:I don't know exactly where it came from, but you know, it it's, it's a really good
Kieran Suckling:example of how we know animals in one context, and then certainly especially,
Kieran Suckling:uh, Europeans, because they travelled the world so dramatically in a way that,
Kieran Suckling:you know, few other people did with that, uh, kind of magnitude, arrive
Kieran Suckling:in new places, see these new animals and then try to interpret them through
Kieran Suckling:these other animals, you know, and cause the Tasmanian tiger is not a tiger.
Kieran Suckling:Um, and like so many other creatures, uh, you know, here in the U.S., um,
Kieran Suckling:uh, you know, for example, our, our, our bison are not actually bison.
Kieran Suckling:Um, that's another word from Asia and you know, it just goes on and
Kieran Suckling:on, but you know, that's exactly how language and culture works.
Kieran Suckling:It's just ever changing, ever-evolving thing that, that just
Kieran Suckling:works by mixing things together.
Kieran Suckling:That's exactly what it is.
Kieran Suckling:It's a mixing together, which is very interesting in terms of, um, that happens
Kieran Suckling:very slowly and sort of organically with many, many different people
Kieran Suckling:accidentally contributing over time so that we ended up with certain perception
Kieran Suckling:of a species, a name, et cetera.
Kieran Suckling:So it's intriguing to me thinking about that in terms of someone's
Kieran Suckling:sitting down today and saying, okay, I will myself create a monster, right?
Kieran Suckling:I'm going to compress what would normally be thousands of years of
Kieran Suckling:work, thousands of people accidentally contributing, I'm now going to do that.
Kieran Suckling:Um, and so what does that look like?
Kieran Suckling:Uh, and how is.
Kieran Suckling:What you think you're doing as my unique individual in fact,
Kieran Suckling:probably not exactly so much.
Kieran Suckling:Um, because you're carrying all these sensibilities.
Kieran Suckling:With you and you can only, and it only works coherently in a limited way.
Kieran Suckling:Like as a game maker, I'm sure, you know, can't just randomly
Kieran Suckling:make up any rules you want.
Kieran Suckling:That'd be a really crappy game.
Kieran Suckling:Uh, you make up the rules, but the rules have to interplay in certain
Kieran Suckling:coherent ways to make it a good game.
Kieran Suckling:And it's the same thing I think, with creating monsters and also.
Kieran Suckling:The bigger cultural long-term development of, of, of language and
Kieran Suckling:how we think about these species.
Lucas:Yep.
Lucas:So this one, uh, I tracked back to Pliny the Elder, uh, his Natural History.
Lucas:Uh, he, um, yeah.
Kieran Suckling:So many of these come some Pliny, it's fascinating.
Lucas:Yep!
Lucas:It's one of those names that I didn't hear before 2021, cause I wasn't a
Lucas:student of philosophy or history.
Lucas:Uh, and now I hear it all the time.
Lucas:Uh, and Pliny described the cynocephaloi, uh, the dog-headed tribe of Greek
Lucas:legend, which, un, tend- people tend to think now he was working off
Lucas:someone's description of a baboon or a mandrill from, from Northern Africa.
Lucas:So, yeah, and now it's applied to neither of those places, but to an extinct
Lucas:marsupial in Tasmania, which is wild!
Lucas:I want to introduce you to the unique magic you have
Lucas:right now to save them before.
Lucas:Again, Steve Sullivan,
Steve Sullivan:I guess, as a biologist, one of my fundamental fascinations
Steve Sullivan:with magic, but then also one of my fundamental frustrations with
Steve Sullivan:magic is that there is no magic.
Steve Sullivan:It's contained already within the individual species.
Steve Sullivan:And what, what is magic ultimately is the ability to take a trait from an
Steve Sullivan:organism and imbue it on ourselves.
Steve Sullivan:And I guess the one thing that I've always thought that's maybe really magic is
Steve Sullivan:the ability for dragons to breathe fire.
Steve Sullivan:Um, there's a famous story about Alfred Russell Wallace.
Steve Sullivan:And I won't go into one of my heroes, Alfred Russell Wallace, suffice it
Steve Sullivan:to say that if it weren't for him, Darwin would not have done his stuff.
Steve Sullivan:And Alfred Russell Wallace discovered everything that Darwin discovered any
Steve Sullivan:more succinct and slightly different way.
Steve Sullivan:And Alfred Russell Wallace was out one day, collecting beetles.
Steve Sullivan:He had a beetle in one hand, he had a beetle on the other hand, he flipped a
Steve Sullivan:log and saw another beetle that he wanted.
Steve Sullivan:So he took one beetle that was in his hand and tossed in his mouth
Steve Sullivan:and then grabbed the other beetle.
Steve Sullivan:It turns out that the beetle that he put in his mouth was a bombardier
Steve Sullivan:beetle, which is now shooting explosive, hyper-heated acid all
Steve Sullivan:over his mouth, that's kind of the equivalent of breathing a fireball.
Steve Sullivan:And so it is then conceivable over the course of evolutionary timescales that
Steve Sullivan:something could be fire-breathing too.
Steve Sullivan:So ultimately magic is awesome, but magic is already around us constantly.
Steve Sullivan:The ability to fly, eh, dime a dozen, right?
Steve Sullivan:Um, the ability to swim under the earth?
Steve Sullivan:You got it!
Steve Sullivan:Moles are a big problem this year apparently thanks to cicadas.
Steve Sullivan:All of these things already exist.
Steve Sullivan:And so the, the thing about magic then is the imposition of
Steve Sullivan:that characteristic on a frankly hominid species that we've created.
Steve Sullivan:Most of the characters that we play they're hominids, even dragons
Steve Sullivan:are, they're really, it's uh, what's his name, sherlock Holmes
Steve Sullivan:crawling around in a green suit.
Steve Sullivan:Right?
Steve Sullivan:So in fact, the thing that differentiates us from all the other organisms is
Steve Sullivan:basically the ability to have imagination, to think about the past, to interpret
Steve Sullivan:the present and predict the future.
Steve Sullivan:It's not necessary for me to know all the sports teams and all the cars on
Steve Sullivan:the road to be like, you know what?
Steve Sullivan:You're cool.
Steve Sullivan:And you're smart because you came up with that diversity.
Steve Sullivan:And it's similarly not necessary for you to know all the diversity
Steve Sullivan:of organisms that live on the earth to say, you know what, there's
Steve Sullivan:other life forms out there that have just as much right to life as I do.
Steve Sullivan:Even if I don't know what they are.
Steve Sullivan:And I have the power to either consume them and or their habitats
Steve Sullivan:out of existence, or to live as a sustainable fellow traveler on this
Steve Sullivan:awesome blue marble floating through space and enjoy life together.
Lucas:So this is our quest adventurers.
Lucas:Let me give you some spell slots.
Lucas:Here are two ways to take action to save endangered species.
Lucas:First, share this story or this podcast with the people who play games with you.
Lucas:Just telling people these animals existed and what they represent begins to
Lucas:reverse the sliding scale of decreasing biodiversity by helping people realize
Lucas:and admit what we've already lost.
Lucas:Second, and this is the big one, donate to conservation through Book of Extinction.
Lucas:If you go to scintilla.studio/extinction or follow the link in the show
Lucas:notes, you can download the preview of Book of Extinction.
Lucas:You can pay what you want for it, and whatever you pay will be
Lucas:donated to conservation efforts to preserve endangered species,
Lucas:habitat, and biodiversity.
Lucas:Right now I'm meeting with conservation organizations to select a project and
Lucas:organize a grant and you can follow this podcast or join my email list
Lucas:to get details as they're finalized.
Lucas:We're not going to keep any of the money we've raised through that preview.
Lucas:We just want the chance to tell you about Book of Extinction when
Lucas:it comes to Kickstarter in 2022.
Lucas:The full book will include animals like the Carolina parakeet, the
Lucas:Yangtze river dolphin, giant moa, and the Formosan clouded leopard.
Lucas:The first three of these animals are available right now: passenger
Lucas:pigeon, great auk, and the thylacine
Lucas:Special thanks to my guests this episode:
Lucas:Andrew Coons of First Watch, a cinematic D and D actual play series on YouTube.
Lucas:Steve and Becca of the House Sivis Echoer Station podcast, a fiction
Lucas:podcast about the first public radio station in the Eberron campaign setting.
Lucas:Steve Sullivan, director of the Hefner Museum of Natural
Lucas:History at Miami University.
Lucas:And Kieran Suckling, founder and executive director of the
Lucas:Center for Biological Diversity.
Lucas:You'll find links to all these people in their description.
Lucas:And I highly recommend you check out their work.
Lucas:Each one has contributed to the growth and understanding of this
Lucas:podcast in their own unique way and is definitely worth your time.
Lucas:I'll be back soon with one more episode before a short hiatus for the holiday.
So I guess I have to say the thing:
:next time on Making a Monster.
Ben Gilsdorf:So, if you've ever seen a pileated woodpecker, it's
Ben Gilsdorf:the bigger woodpecker with the red crest, black and white body long bill.
Ben Gilsdorf:That's sort of the most famous when new people think of a big
Ben Gilsdorf:woodpecker, it looks like that.
Ben Gilsdorf:The ivory billed looks remarkably similar to that.
Ben Gilsdorf:Um, it has a bit more red up top darker body.
Ben Gilsdorf:Um, they're a little smaller than the pileated woodpecker and they lived
Ben Gilsdorf:in a different part of the country.
Ben Gilsdorf:So they lived in the American southeast by and large and old growth Cypress forests.