Gary Hines of Sounds of Blackness shares rare stories about Prince, Paisley Park sessions, and the Minneapolis music scene.

From Batman soundtrack sessions to 3AM calls, this is a powerful look at Prince’s character, legacy, and community.

Three-time Grammy winner Gary Hines joins Musicians Reveal with Joe Kelley to reflect on his deep connection with Prince and the Minneapolis sound. He shares firsthand stories of working with Prince on the Batman soundtrack, Love Sexy tour, and late-night studio sessions at Paisley Park.

Gary also opens up about Prince’s personality—his loyalty, work ethic, musical genius, and the community that shaped him alongside artists like Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis.

Beyond Prince, this episode explores the mission of Sounds of Blackness, the power of conscious music, and using art to inspire change through songs like “Time for Reparations” and “Woke.”

🎙️ Musicians Reveal with Joe Kelley features legendary and emerging funk, R&B, and Prince-associated artists. On air since 1982 and spanning five decades.

And welcome to another edition of Musicians Reveal.

Joe Kelly here.

And it's a true honor to have our longtime friend, a great musician, producer and leader of the three time Grammy Award winning group out of Minneapolis, Sounds of Blackness.

We welcome once again Gary Hines.

How you doing brother?

I am blessed to it all, my brother.

Thank you on behalf of Sounds of Blackness for your, your, your friendship, your brotherhood and your support over these years and up till right now.

So thank you.

Yeah, appreciate, appreciate that.

And, and thanks to, you know, give some time.

You just flew in from la.

We were talking beforehand what went over this weekend?

Well, this past weekend, Brother Joe, in la, right in the heart of the black community in Crenshaw and Englewood, at the place called Leimert park was a Reparations love rally and festival, a big outdoor festival.

Regina Bell, Eric Benet, Rotimi, Sounds of Blackness and other artists as well with the theme, of course there were speakers and well, as well, politicians all around the theme of reparations and they definitely wanted Sounds of Blackness because of our song Time for Reparations.

So we had a great time.

Yeah, and, and definitely important.

I mean you, you've, the Sounds of Blackness have always spoken the truth and gotten involved with things that are of much importance and continue especially the last few years.

I mean, Time for Reparations and the current single Woke from the movie Black Skin.

We got a lot to talk about.

But yeah, in, in us Capsulation, small encapsulation for our audience about reparations.

Tell us what you've been working for and, and, and what is the progress that's being made?

Well, there's a few things.

We released Time for Reparations actually last year and it's been already adopted by the National Committee on Reparations as their theme song.

We've been in theme song kind of anthem mode for the past several years, as you know, Brother Joe.

Cause you keep up with us better than anybody.

But Reparations, even though last released last year, continues to have an increasing presence in the news and across the country up to this day.

And I think that's going to only continue to increase.

And so airplay is starting all over again with the song itself.

And that's a great thing, you know, on the commercial professional side.

But on the heart and soul and life side, we really want Time for Reparations to be the anthem for, for the movement for Reparations, which as I know, you know, it's surprising so many people think that this is new.

So we remind everybody that reparations is not about a privilege, it's about a debt that's owed.

So.

And it's never had an anthem.

And so now you see the rally for reparations that we just spoke of and just were blessed to perform at.

And then also while we were there, Brother Joe and I didn't get a chance to tell you this off the air.

The great actor, actor Idris Elba, is producing a documentary about, guess what, Reparations, but specifically as it relates to black music and musicians.

And while we were in la, we also taped some footage and did some interviews with the great director Allison Duke, who's directing this documentary called Paid in Full Reparations and Black Music.

And that's going to be done in conjunction between the BBC and the cbc, the Canadian broadcast company, with Idris Elba's production company.

So they look for artists who were singing about reparations and the only one they found were the sounds of blackness.

So we're honored to be a part of that.

So we kind of killed two birds with one stone while we were in LA.

Busy 36 hours.

Right.

And it's almost crucial for these days with the industry.

I'm sure, you know that I'm not saying anything new for you, that your music to go into different, you know, movies and different show, TV shows and documentaries like that is very important.

Right?

It's extremely important, Brother Joe, because you.

And God bless you and I'll get.

I'm glad I get a chance to say this publicly.

You are one of the few stations across the country that had the kahunas to play Time for Reparations and woke.

So it's really funny.

There's such a contradiction because those songs, including Woke, have been getting rave critical reviews in terms of content and the song and the groove and all that kind of thing.

But then so many stations that are really conglomerate, just I heart owned now, are afraid to play any conscious music.

So God bless you for that support.

And so the fact that much of radio is hesitant to play these songs, but they are being picked up for film and tv, is just a great vindication and a great blessing.

Yeah, no, nobody's tapped me on the shoulder and said, don't push play on that song.

So even when I was first started on radio, a commercial station, when we had the.

The carts to put in and stuff like that, in the final, I was still independent, but it was a You know, commercial station, but they never, never got on me for that, so.

I'm glad to hear that.

Yeah.

So you're from Minneapolis.

We love the Minneapolis sound.

And you are.

You know, you stayed there all along.

I know you're from Yonkers.

We'll talk about that a little bit.

But, you know, speaking of yourself and the Sounds of Blackness, you were right in the heart of the George Floyd murder.

I.

I guess your rehearsal space is a few blocks away.

And literally, yes, we rehearsed primarily at Sabathony Community center in the heart of the South Minneapolis black community, which, again, is literally like four or five blocks from where George Floyd was murdered.

So.

You're absolutely right.

Brother Joe and.

And other connections to Brother George as well.

He worked out at the same gym that I worked at.

I never met him, but we were at the same gym.

He also did security for our lead singer, Jamecia Bennett, so there were some personal connections to him as well.

And I'll never forget the first.

The night of the first rally, the night after he was murdered, they were like.

And the media downplayed.

How many people were there, Joe?

There were tens of thousands of people.

Literally.

I mean, you could not fall down if you wanted to.

I know, because we were there.

It was a Tuesday night, which is normally our vocal rehearsal night.

And.

And of course, I canceled rehearsal, and all the Sounds of Blackness were there.

And I'll just say this quickly to finish the answer, but right at that first night, I'll never forget this young, teenage, Caucasian young lady.

She was holding her sign up, Black Lives Matter, and she apparently recognized me from the group, and she came up and she said, hey, Mr.

Sounds of Blackness, you guys are one of my favorite groups.

And she said, I bet you guys are gonna do a song about this.

She said, but please do me a favor, and I'll never forget this, Jill.

She said, please don't make it a happy song.

And I said, you know what, young lady?

I promise you that will not happen.

And the moment I spoke those words, Joe, I started hearing the voice and the words of Fannie Lou Hamer.

Sick and tired.

I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired and put pen to paper.

And that week, Sounds of Blackness we wrote, and then we recorded Sick and Tired.

So that's the connection with George Floyd.

And of course, we dedicated that to him.

And then a portion of the proceeds from any sales of Sick and Tired Merch or the record go to the George Floyd Scholarship Foundation.

So, okay, you know, just.

We don't Just talk the talk, we walk the walk.

Right.

And we encourage our, our viewers, listeners to go to YouTube and, you know, sounds of Blackness.

Just typing in some really powerful videos recently, you know, even, even going back in, in the 90s, early 90s, but currently the last few years, really, really powerful stuff that you've been doing.

You and the sounds to be commended for that.

Oh, thank you so much, Brother Joe.

And it's really something because when Brother George was murdered, I was getting calls from PDs, program directors, for those that don't know, across the country, you know, saying, you know, Gary, we need sounds, you know, the whole country, we need sounds to do another optimistic.

But Joe, that's not how God was leading us.

There was too much righteous indignation to come out with a Don't worry, be happy song.

I believe to this day, if we had done that, we would have been seen as part of the problem instead of part of the solution, not getting it.

And so there's no doubt in my mind that God was deliberate in his purpose in sending the words of Fannie Lou Hamer.

We're sick and tired of being sick and tired.

Because that was the mood of everybody at that, that, that, those rallies that night.

Young, old men, women, black, white, Asian, Latina, native, everybody.

Righteous indignation was the feeling.

And, and yes, people needed to be uplifted, but it needs to be from a really, a standpoint of truth and consciousness.

Yeah.

You're from the Twin Cities since the 60s.

You moved there, you and your family, right?

Yes, yes.

Yeah.

So take us through some of the stuff, you know, that mentioned the things that have gone wrong.

Have you seen improvements through the years?

And you know, the Twin Cities, we love the Twin Cities, but how did you get to this point?

I mean, it's all over the country in the world, but.

Right.

Specifically your city.

What, what has gone wrong and, and any positive things you talk about.

Sure, there's a lot.

There's been progress, but then there's been regression as well.

Here in the Twin Cities and across the country.

I would be pressed to ever thank Donald Trump for anything, but if there was anything I would thank him for, it would be to pull the veneer off of things that were already seething just under the radar in Minneapolis, St.

Paul and across the country, where people were trying to say after Barack Obama was elected, we're now in post racial America and all things are free and wonderful and equitable.

It's like, no, no, no.

Nothing could be further or farther from the truth.

And here in the Twin Cities, there's Brother Joe.

There's that same contradiction that I'm sure exists in other parts of the country as well.

You've heard the term Minnesota Nice.

Minnesota nice is a reality.

You know, some people are saying, oh, it's not.

But on the other reality is, you know, there's still.

This was the anti Semitic capital of the world right here in the Twin Cities, you.

And you would see some of the same signs that you would see in Mississippi.

No Jews, no niggers, no dogs.

Okay?

So that contradiction was always there.

And so with that reality that a lot of Times People like Governor DeSantis, you know, want to overlook or deny, unless and until we face that and acknowledge that, it's just like, you know, aa, the first step in rehabilitation is acknowledgement, you know, of the problem.

So that.

That duality has always been there.

The good news is that I do see it reducing somewhat because people are starting to face it.

But that's what it's going to take, right?

And hopefully the young kids growing up, I'm sure it's, you know, the cultures are blending a lot, which is cool.

Very cool.

And like I say, that young, teenage, young lady that.

Who happened to be white, that came up to me.

And I'm glad you mentioned the youth, Brother Joe, because the George Floyd rallies and protests and all were definitely youth driven.

I mean, much of that.

I mean, they were all ages there, but primarily we're talking about teens, and they weren't having it.

Okay.

And across the country, you could see the rallies and marches and the school walkouts being led by youth.

I mean, it reminded me of.

This is going back way to sncc.

Sncc, The Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee.

So much of the Civil rights movement was youth driven, although, of course, there were many adults involved as well.

Right.

So, yeah, but this generation just, you know, to drop all the proper English, ain't having it, right?

Gary Hines, leader, founder.

You know, you.

You took over.

You weren't the first founder, but you've been there the longest of the group, correct?

Correct me, who.

Who founded it?

Yes.

And a quick science history to validate your question further, Brother Joe.

Sounds of Blackness began in my alma mater here in Twin Cities, Macalester College, a predominantly white institution of higher learning, and a great one as well.

And they were very successful.

And one of the offshoots of that success was that the students themselves organized a number of different activities.

There was a dance group, theater group called Black Arts Midwest.

There was a political group which I'm so happy still exists, called BLAC, the Black Liberation Affairs Committee.

And there was this 50 voice choir called the McAllister College Black Voices, under the direction of our emeritus founder, native of Beaumont, Texas, Brother Russell Knighton.

So we always give him that shout out.

And the vision, Brother Joe, that God gave me for the group, which was actually very excellent even back then.

But the vision that God gave me for the group was to follow the path of Duke Ellington.

Now that surprises a lot of people when I say that because we hear Duke's name and we think of jazz as we certainly should, but too many people don't know.

I know, you know, that Duke wrote, recorded and performed spirituals, world beat music, blues, as well as jazz.

Every sound of blackness.

So he did the music of the culture.

And so we can't take credit for that template.

And we consider Duke Ellington our musical mentor and that's the reason we change and the explanation of the name Sounds of Blackness.

Right?

Yeah.

And you continued in Duke's tradition being an orchestrator and leader of the sounds of blackness for so many years.

I got a question.

You, you've got so many vocalists in the band over the years and, and you know, have some big ensembles getting the voices all together.

And let me ask you, and this is off the topic, but during rehearsal, can you tell when someone's hit the wrong note?

I can.

You know, the, the, the gift of perfect pitch can be a blessing and a curse, you know, and it's a blessing, of course we know, but, you know, also drive you crazy.

Maybe that's why I'm so crazy.

But, but yeah, we, we hear that and they, they know that and they, they tease me about that, you know, and it's so funny because sometimes when we're in a group interview, like we were this past weekend in la, and that question will come up by from the interviewer.

Well, you know, you got, you, you're okay.

You can just kind of blend in with the group, make a mistake and they're like, no, no, il.

You can't hide.

I can't hide.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I, I liken you to like a, a point guard or quarterback, you know, orchestrating things.

And you've got, you know, if you ever want to find out how many people have passed through the doors and under the tutelage of Gary Hines, just type in Sounds of Blackness and Wikipedia.

And the roster is this long.

I mean.

Yeah.

Is it once a member of Sounds of Blackness, always a member.

Do you have that philosophy?

And one of our most renowned members, Sounds of Blackness own Ann Nesby, started that same.

Because Ann embarked on her solo career.

Oh my goodness.

Five or six or so.

But she said back then, even as she embarked on that solo career, once a sound, always a sound.

And we.

We also have as distinguished alum who's doing his world grand finale tour, farewell to her brother Alexander O'Neill.

So shout out.

I didn't even know was.

He's okay.

Yeah, yeah.

Wow.

When he moved to Minneapolis from Natchez, Mississippi, or as he would say from the step.

He moved from that.

Yeah, he moved to Minneapolis.

The first band he joined was not Flight Time.

He was a member of Sounds of Blackness and performed for about a year and then he went on to Flight Time and of course, the rest is history as he went on very solo career.

And again, shout out to Alex as he embarks on his world worldwide farewell tour.

I believe starting this fall, he's going.

To come to the States.

Have you seen any dates?

Oh, yeah.

Yes.

He's gonna traverse the.

The.

The US and Europe, Africa, Asia, South America.

Yes.

Yeah.

Such a great talent.

Yeah.

Yes, he is.

Yeah.

You know what?

You know, another thing that I.

I was reading recently, someone's.

I don't know who wrote the article, but they were listing the top songs ever coming out of Flight Time and Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, number one.

Optimistic.

I don't know if you've seen it.

I did.

Yeah.

That.

That is quite an honor.

And, and you know, definitely, I, I agree.

Such.

Such a great, powerful intro with Jimmy Jam and Terry.

They have stuck by you.

You've worked with them on the recent duo project.

What was the initial contact?

I mean, you've known them for years, but, you know, to join up with their label at the time and produce.

You, well, you know, you always do your homework to the Nines.

Brother Joe, you're absolutely right.

The relationship between, well, even just myself and Jam and Lewis and families goes back to our parents.

So this is going to take a second to put into perspective.

What brought the Heinz family, my family, to Minneapolis from my beloved hometown, Yonkers, New York, was my mother, the late, great Doris Hines, who we lost eight years ago today, as a matter of fact.

Wow.

So Much love to your heavenly mom.

Yeah.

Yes.

Thank you, Brother Joe.

I forget she.

Believe me, she hears and accepts that.

But Minneapolis and St.

Paul were big jazz towns.

A lot of that surprises a lot of people.

Ellington, Basie, Sarah, Ella, who were contemporaries and friends of whom mom performed with.

And we would always excite, get excited, of course, when they would call the house and all that.

Mom, Ms.

Sarah's on the line.

So that's what brought.

She was booked here in the Twin Cities, Brother Joe, for what was supposed to be two weeks.

It turned into.

She got held over for a year.

And so she fell in love with the Twin Cities and moved us here from yonkers to Minneapolis St.

Paul.

Then we remind people all the time, and I know you know this Prince, Jim and Lewis did not just appear out of a vacuum.

The thing that brought mom here and then ultimately brought us here was that while there was a very small black community, it was very thriving and culturally and musically active.

There were R and B groups here that would have rivaled any Motown group.

There were blues artists here, jazz, gospel, and again, that's.

That's what brought us here.

And so Prince's parents were professional musicians, Jam and Lewis, and contemporaries of my mom.

And so our family, our parents knew one another.

So our relationship predates both Prince's and Jam and Lewis international fame as artists and producers.

And when they achieved that fame, they did not forget about us and they brought us on and we were blessed to be the first artists signed to a prospective records which.

And I was talking to a former A and M employee just the other day out in la and they said, you know, Gary, when Jam and Lewis and a.m.

polygram was.

Were the parent label and distributors at the time, the biggest in the world of Perspective Records, Jam and Lewis's label and Jimmy and Terry were working with the biggest artists in the world.

I mean, Human League, George Michael, Janet, Michael Jackson, and surely the expectation of polygram and A M was that Jam and Lewis would lure some of those artists to their label, right?

Lo and behold, who's the first group they signed sounds A who?

What?

How many of them are there and how many different types of music are they singing and how are we going to market them?

And all these questions, you know, so they were.

They were not happy, you know, if the truth be told, until Optimistic went number one, right?

Oh, yeah.

Then the rest is history.

I.

I saw a recent video.

I guess Jam gave a.

A tour to someone in.

I don't know.

You've seen that.

I did Flight out in California.

And he spoke highly still to this day about sounds.

So, yes, he did.

God bless.

Big.

Always a huge shout out to Jam and Lewis, you know, our friend.

We would.

We would perform.

Just to put the cap on your question, Joe, Sounds of Blackness and the Flight Time Band.

Many times.

I mean, before their fame, you know, and Grand Central with Prince, many times we would perform at the same events here in the Twin Cities, whether it was like, say, the annual Urban League dinner or the annual Miss Black Minnesota Pageant.

Many times, Sounds of Blackness would open the event, you know, with the black national anthem and then a couple of songs, and then the evening would go on and.

And then the bands would close out the evening.

And so the result of that scenario is that we many times spent a lot of time backstage together over the years and talking about what we were gonna do and what our plans were.

And a lot of times people say, were asked, did you guys ever, you know, the Minneapolis artist and the Sounds of Blackness?

Did you ever envision, you know, all the things that have come your way?

Did you think it was even possible?

And with all humbleness, we say, actually, yes.

We didn't know, but we believed in our youthful exuberance.

You know, we would say, one day we're going to travel all over the world and we're going to win Grammys and all these kind of things.

Of course, not knowing that it was actually going to happen.

But the point being, the relationship went back there, and the vision and the enthusiasm goes way back before anybody knew who Jam and Lewis and who Prince were.

But when they did learn, they never forgot about Sounds of Blackness.

Yeah.

And of course, Prince stayed in the Twin Cities, out in Chanhassen, where he had his studio and.

And home for his later years.

But, yeah.

Oh, I'll quickly say the first person I ever viewed interviewed in radio was Andre Simone back in 82.

Oh, I love it.

He was on, like, a solo tour in New York, and Owen Husney called the house and he said, are you ready?

I was living at my mom's house.

I was still young.

Said, are you ready to do the interview with Andre?

I said, I'm not even at the studio.

Give me.

Give me an hour to get settled.

And then I had an interview with Andre, like, 30 years later.

So we've talked a few times on the show.

Amazing musician, great friend and brother.

He's another one.

Just.

Just always supportive and.

And a great friend and brother.

Yeah.

And of course, Prince.

You and Prince were very tight and, you know, a lot of phone calls.

You know, he would call you guys, would have some heavy discussions.

And what was.

Let's talk about first, musically, Prince getting you involved with some of his stuff?

Oh, absolutely, yes.

And you're right about the phone calls.

And then we could.

Which were usually at 2 or 3 in the morning, which.

And he would.

He would act like it was noon and not, you know, we'll come back to that.

That was his trademark.

But yes, brother Joe Prince, again, he never forgot Sounds of Blackness.

Like to say, just like Jam and Lewis when he came into his international celebrity as an artist.

And we had performed on the same stage here in Minneapolis.

Like I said, stages before all of that.

And then when he hit the international stage, oh, my goodness.

Prince involved us in so many projects.

The Batman soundtrack, he called us in and what was supposed to be for two hours, of course, we were out at Paisley all night, you know, is how it goes.

And.

And I'll never forget, it was on Halloween of all nights kind of thing.

But yeah, so the Batman soundtrack, we did the opening of the Love Sexy tour with him.

Oh, my goodness.

Just so many projects, both live and studio, private, public, out at Paisley.

And.

And you know what?

It's still hard to go out there.

It's.

It's.

It's a really surreal kind of feeling to go to Paisley.

And I, I didn't go until last year when we did the Billboard Awards.

We performed out.

We recorded.

No, no, it was live, actually, that we did out there.

And people were asking, you know, what's it like to come out?

And they were surprised when I said, you know what?

I gotta admit, I have not been able to bring myself to come out until this time, you know, just because I knew how difficult it would be.

But it's a joy and a blessing and an honor and, you know, to have known him.

Yeah.

And a surprise for just about everybody and crushing emotions, especially people who, like yourself, were friends with him.

Yes, absolutely.

You know, you know, I was thinking back to some of the guys or ladies that I, you know, fans of musicians and Prince, Rick James, Roger Troutman and, you know, the lives and Michael Jackson all cut short.

So young and.

And like, it's almost like a running back in the NFL, you know, in their prime.

And then, yeah, really sad.

Really sad to this day.

It is just.

Just heartbreaking.

And just every name that you said, dear friends.

And.

And Roger Troutman, another special one.

Yeah.

Brilliant musician and.

And amazing human being and one of the funniest people on the planet, but just absolutely brilliant.

And yeah, I went to his funeral.

And it's just one of the saddest ever.

I mean we know what happened.

And he and his brother's coffins were right next to side by side to each other at the funeral.

And I was seated close to their mom and the family and it was just absolutely heart wrenching, but an honor to have.

No one had worked with him.

Yeah.

The last time I saw Zap was well, this is after Roger past and we went to Queensborough park out in New York.

My wife and I are walking down the street and you're hearing the vocoder vocator and you're like, I know he's not going to be there, but you know, it was very emotional.

Yeah.

Oh my goodness.

To this day.

Right, so let's talk about the new single Woke and Black Skin.

The movie, the tie in with that was the movie filmed in.

In the Twin Cities.

The film, the movie, it was filmed here.

Black was filmed right here in the Twin Cities.

Brother Joe and director Mark Casey and who's a native of Los Angeles but.

But wanted to film.

And it's not only about George Floyd.

The storyline deals with Philando Castile and Amir Locke and just unfortunately the number of murders of unarmed young black men by police here.

Right here in the Twin Cities.

And we touched on that earlier in terms of that whole contradiction.

But yes, the film was filmed here on location in the Twin Cities and he approached us about using some of Sounds of Blackness songs.

And actually there are three Sounds of Blackness songs we're blessed to have in the form in the film Black Skin, Black Lives Matter and track called Healing.

And of course the primary one is, is Woke.

Okay, so.

So busy with coast to coast going with in LA and what is on the agenda the rest of the latter part of the summer and heading into the fall for the sounds.

Excellent.

I'm glad you asked.

You know, this is kind of.

It's amazing how things happen in bunches.

Brother Joe, I'm sure you, you can attest to this.

So we're kind of in festival mode because of course as I mentioned last this past Saturday was the Reparations festival in Los Angeles.

This coming Saturday is the community unity rally and harvest right here in Minneapolis.

So at Franklin Middle School Field.

And it's a big free outdoor festival.

There's a number of artists and food and music and vendors and all that kind of family friendly, that kind of thing.

So that's our next live performance and it's great to travel.

We love to travel.

But to take a line out of the wizard of Oz is no place home.

So we invite everybody out to Franklin middle school.

Saturday, August 19th.

I believe the day starts at noon and I believe Sounds hits the Stage at approximately 3:00 this Saturday.

And I.

I caught you.

Did a recent cruise.

Right.

I saw you.

Yeah, that was, that was cool.

Yes.

This.

Yeah.

What happened?

Early February, we were blessed to do.

And this was our second time doing it.

The Soul Train Cruise.

Right?

Yeah.

Big shout out to brother Tony Cornelius, another dear friend and brother, and of course, the.

The memory and honor of his great dad, Dapper Don Cornelius.

I would always call him Dapper Don, God bless him.

A huge, huge Sounds of Blackness supporter as well as a friend and brother.

I mean, over the years, and consistency and a mentor as well.

And so we miss him.

And we're so elated that his son, actually both of his sons, but primarily Tony, are continuing the legacy of Soul Train.

Yeah, that's like a who's who and R B funk and, and jazz.

I mean, I, I just, I haven't been on it, but I looked and I said, my wife and I said, we got to do that, we got to do that.

And people book it like right after they just got off the last one.

They're ready to go for next year.

That's true.

And, and, and brother Joe, let me tell you that you and.

And Sister G will love having a sensory of your music sensibilities.

I mean, the whole day and night, soul music everywhere, all 11 decks, you know, live performances, pre records, videos kind of thing.

It's just like soul music, heaven to go and, and soul food.

I mean, when they call it the Soul Train Cruise, they ain't playing.

Yeah.

Great time.

And yeah, it's.

Is that the first time you did their cruise, the Soul Trains?

Actually, the second time.

Oh, oh, second time.

Okay.

Yeah.

So, you know, of course there were a couple of years off with COVID you know, but we were so happy to be back.

And oh my goodness, just the other artists, I mean, Evelyn, Champaign King, Denise Williams, the Spinners, I can't even think of everybody.

Earth, Wind and Fire.

Oh, my goodness, there were so many.

And it was just so great to see it and fellowship with them, you know, at the airport, on the ship, you know, know, in between shows.

Right.

It's amazing.

Well, let's get back.

I kind of jumped over those two 3am calls from Prince and you guys discussing and, and, you know, can you give us a tiny snapshot of, you know, your friendship with Prince like that?

Absolutely.

Prince, God bless him.

And Rest his soul.

Like, he.

He had a few.

He was in many ways, Joe, just a regular guy, a big sports guy.

Love the Vikings, you know, hence the purple and all that kind of thing, you know, Love, love basketball.

In fact, I need to say this.

A lot of people don't know, or they think it was really just a parody or something about his athleticism.

But Prince was an all city basketball player, you know, despite his height.

And he came from a school where, I mean, a real basketball powerhouse school.

We were blessed to go to the same junior high school, Bryant Junior High School, and the same senior high school, Minneapolis Central.

Now we were like six years apart, five apart, but the schools are just a few blocks apart.

And so there was a lot of interaction between the schools.

And I'll never forget, you know, in my senior year, started hearing rumors about this dude down at the road at Bryant Junior High School that was like a beast on every instrument.

You know, guess who that was?

Right.

And he went on to Central, but both at Bryant and at Central High School, Bryant Junior High, Central Senior High, Prince was all city basketball.

And I mean, those teams, they won like state championship, city champ.

So I mean, it was a real basketball, so you had to be really good just to make the team.

And it was all city.

One of the things, his quirks that you're asking about that, that he would love to do, he kept a basketball hoop out at Paisley.

Okay, Right.

You know, of course, you know, some of the superstar actors and actresses and athletes, you know, when they were in town, they would, they would come by Paisley and visit and.

And when some of the jocks would come out, you know, he'd have one of the assistants pull out the hoop and say, you want to do a little one on one.

Right.

They'd laugh because they didn't know.

They thought, yeah, yeah, right.

And of course, as they say, he would take them to the hole.

Right, right.

Yeah.

One time I asked Jelly Bean Johnson during an interview, give me like the top five Prince band members or associated artists through the years.

And he went through like the revolution and the time, guys who could play.

It was pretty interesting.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Connection.

Music and sports and.

And coming from that tradition, even from those schools as well and in this community.

Community, right.

Well, I'm glad Prince chose music.

So.

Yeah, yeah, it was a good choice.

And same with Terry Lewis.

How about that?

You know, And Terry's.

Terry was an all state track and football halfback.

You know, both travel.

Yeah.

But had a really severe knee injury, which, because he Was being recruited already, you know, like full rides, you know, Division 1 schools and all that kind of thing.

But this knee injury, you know, was severe enough to.

To curtail.

To curtail that.

And as you say, we're.

We're not.

While we're not glad that he was injured, you know the rest.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Hey, before we.

We say goodbye, let's talk about your mom.

Yes.

You know, eight years since she passed today, right?

Yes.

Yes, sir.

What kind of lady was your mom?

And tell us about her musical style and how she passed it on to you.

Oh, bless you.

Well, the late, great Doris Hines, you know her mom, so Kingston, Jamaica, but she.

Born and raised in New York, where she met.

Married my dad, and they made me and my five siblings, but so you had a combination of Jamaican intensity with a New York attitude.

So she was a force of nature be reckoned with and just an amazing human being.

In the words of Maya Angelou, a phenomenal woman.

She made sure that we.

Speaking of the combination between physical fitness and music, she had us exercise every day as kids, calisthenics and all that, even before school and so forth, and exposed us to.

She primarily sang jazz, but just like she And I heard Ms.

Ella Fitzgerald and Ms.

Sarah Vaughan, all of them disliked being called jazz singers.

They would say, and Aretha even disliked any of it.

They would say, I'm a singer.

People were amazed when Aretha filled in for Pavarotte at the Grammys, and I said, no, she's a singer.

So mom was part of that school as well and exposed us to all the different types of music daily in the household.

And her rehearsals kept us and groomed us and taught us African and African American history.

So all of that, the roots of that, go back to the great Doris Hines.

And she.

She, like I say, performed with everyone from Duke Ellington to Sarah Vaughan, Ella Fitzgerald, Nat King Cole, Della Reese, Dinah Washington were all contemporaries of Doris Hines.

Yeah.

So.

God rest her soul, I know she's smiling down on you and yes, with you every step of the way.

So, yeah, that's a great to talk about your mom, Doris Hines, and.

Thank you.

Yeah.

One.

One last thing.

We're both James Brown's fan, but I know you're.

You're the biggest fan because I have one regret.

I'll tell you this quickly and let you talk about James Brown.

I was in radio.

I think it was 82 or 83, and James was doing a tour with Wilson Pickett, and he came to Connecticut.

We're.

We're in New York since The last year.

But I.

I wish I had that appreciation of his music and what a great performer was back then.

Because I was backstage, I was able to meet him and Maceo was there and melt Wilson Pickett.

But I'm thinking down.

I said, wow, I really could have, like, soaked it all up.

You know, he had his hair up in curlers before the show.

I think he did two shows.

Yeah, he ran a.

He ran a real tight ship.

He told his guitarist, put a cigarette and everything like that.

Yeah.

What drew you into James Brown's world?

And of course, the music and performer, but what appealed mostly to you?

What appealed to me then and still does now.

Brother Joe, about the Godfather.

Soul.

James Brown, Mr.

Dynamite, soul brother number one, the hardest working man in show business.

Had to get the full introduction in there.

Right, Right.

You did it right.

Danny Ray.

Danny Ray, who we just lost last year, by the way.

But anyway, to me, brother Joe, James Brown was the embodiment of black music, especially on the soul and R and B side.

And he defied all of the barriers that were present throughout the industry and in society, and he prevailed over all of them.

And he wrote what is, to me, the most prolific song in black history.

And that is say it Loud, I'm black and I'm proud.

Because a lot of times back in the day, to call someone black was almost more of a fighting word than to call them the N word.

And so, because there was such a railing against being black and against blackness, but he said, no, no, no, say it loud.

I'm black and I'm proud.

And so he not only had the soul and captured the culture and portrayed it so.

So amazingly, but he also had the consciousness, so the culture and the consciousness politically, with everything from, you know, like I say, from Cold Sweat and Papa's Got a Brand New Bag to say It Loud.

I'm black and I'm proud and I don't want nobody to get me nothing.

Open up the door, I'll get it myself.

Without an education, might as well be dead.

So James had that political, that awareness conscious side that, as I talk to younger artists today, I implore them to do the same.

Yes, have your party music, but take a cue out of the words of the great Gamble and Huff song message in our music.

And one of my favorite R B lyrics, it says, understand while you dance.

Okay, yeah, well.

Well said about that.

Plus, he had the dance moves.

And Prince, too.

Oh, my God.

When.

When Prince stopped doing the splits, I was a little disappointed.

I was a lot disappointed.

But I wish he.

Now I understand.

I wish he hadn't done the splits, but.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Considering what happened to him.

Yeah.

Both.

Both with Prince and Michael would be the first.

And they.

They're on record, as I know you're saying it, that, you know, they're without even.

It wasn't even worth arguing.

Their biggest influence was James Brown.

Right.

Right.

So.

Wow.

Hey, we got to tell our listeners, viewers.

Soundsofblackness.org Right.

It's the hub.

But, you know, you can go to all the different music distribution places to.

To get woke and the catalog of Sounds of Blackness music going back.

How about.

How about the records going back to 78?

Yeah, we release them.

You know what?

Actually, some of them are.

We're still gathering some of the early ones, you know, before we were assigned to a label and all of that.

And also we want to encourage all your wonderful listeners, Brother Joe, to when they do go to the different platforms, please look for our recent singles as well.

Hold up your light so thankful and your hashtag, you're gonna win.

They're really part of a.

They kind of join at the hip in terms of our anthems, you know, as well as Time for reparations and.

And.

And so forth.

So.

And you can see the videos for you're gonna win and.

And hold up your light as well as.

As time for reparations and Juneteenth celebration and Woke all on YouTube.

Get them all.

Get them all.

Yeah.

So much love to you, Gary, and the Sounds of Blackness and continue, you know, continue doing what you do because you've given us so much for so many, so many decades now.

Bless you.

Thank you.

Only.

Only by the grace of God, by the dedication of Sounds of Blackness singers and band.

And the third and most crucial element is people like you, because, you know, there's a scripture that says, how will the people hear without a preacher?

Well, when it comes to music, how will they hear without a dj, without a Joe, without a wvof?

We can make all the music we want, but if we don't have people that will play it, it won't be heard.

So on behalf of Sounds of Blackness, thank you, Brother Joe.

Yeah, thanks, Gary.

I appreciate that.

Yes, sir.

We too.

All right.

Much love, Gary.

All right.

Peace and love.

Stay woke.