What if your definition of success was completely different from God’s?

In this powerful conversation, Kristin Fitch and Christian business coach Erin Harrigan tackle the tension between worldly ambition and God’s calling. Together, they unpack how to set goals that honor Him, how to stay focused on your divine assignment when life gets messy, and why obedience matters more than accolades. Erin shares biblical wisdom, practical strategies, and personal stories to help you trade burnout and self-reliance for peace, purpose, and joy in your work and life.

Whether you’re an entrepreneur, leader, or woman of faith navigating career and calling, this episode will inspire you to align your ambitions with God’s will — and experience the kind of success that truly satisfies.

Key Takeaways

• Redefine success by aligning your goals with God’s calling, not the world’s standards.
• Surrender control and trust God’s timing, even when results don’t come quickly.
• Take small steps of obedience — God often works through the seemingly insignificant.
• Let go of comparison and focus on the mission He’s given uniquely to you.
• Support and accountability in faith can help you stay steadfast when doubts creep in.

Connect with Erin at ErinHarrigan.com or listen to her past podcast episode with me.

Download My Free Joyful Living Devotional: https://kristinfitch.com/devotional

Ready to take your first step towards a more joyful, faith-filled life? Download our Reignite Your Passion Workbook and start living with purpose today!

What to feel more energized in midlife? Grab my 5 Day Energy Reset Jump Start Guide here.

Ready to work with Kristin to make a shift in your life? Click here to get started.

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Beautiful friends, welcome back to Faithfield Woman.

This is your host, Kristen.

Today I am having a conversation around how do we pursue success God's way?

How do we keep showing up for the mission or the assignment that God has for us in whatever season we're walking through?

It's a great conversation, it's real, it's honest, and I think it's really uplifting.

So I can't wait to share it with you.

Hey friend, are you craving deeper faith, renewed purpose and more joy in your everyday life?

Welcome to Faith Heeled Woman, a podcast that helps Christian women grow spiritually pursue God's calling and embrace the abundant life he has for you.

I'm Kristen, an encourager, mentor, entrepreneur, wife and mom, here to uplift, equip and inspire you with faith filled conversations and biblical wisdom.

Subscribe now so you never miss an episode and join our faith fueled community for more encouragement.

Hi.

Today on the podcast I would like to welcome our guest, Erin Harrigan.

She's a Christian business coach and strategist.

She, she's an author and the podcast host of Redefining Hustle, Navigating Success as a Christian woman.

Her newest book is called Pursuing Success God's Way.

And I'm excited for our conversation because we're going to talk about building a business from a faith perspective.

We're going to talk about all the things you walk through from understanding what the world tells us success is to understanding that when we follow God's game plan or business plan, that it looks different.

But there's so much more peace and joy and fulfillment in there when we stop trying to chase accomplishments in the title and the rank.

So I can't wait to share this with you.

So welcome to the show again, Aaron.

Oh, thank you so much for having me back.

I just was smiling as you were saying those things because while I talk about those topics, you know, the Lord takes us through seasons and been in a season recently where he's reminding me that the joy and the hope is his, not in the outcomes that I see or don't see.

So true.

So true.

So for those of you that might not know, I had Aaron on about almost a year and a half ago on the podcast and that episode, which I will link in the show notes, was we basically looked at four keys to Redefining Hustle and anchoring our identity in Christ.

So today, much like Aaron just mentioned, we're going to talk about, you know, kind of walking through those seasons and how life changes, how we have to be reminded that like, she just said, and I've had to learn this lesson over and over.

It's about being obedient.

It's about continuing to show up and be consistent.

It's not about the outcomes.

I mean, we all want nice outcomes, but really, we don't always know that they can be better than we want, but they're not on our timeline.

Amen.

So I can't wait to talk about this.

So, Erin, why don't you just catch us up?

What does life look like?

And what are you up to now?

Yeah.

So most recently, Kristen, since the beginning.

Well, since about a year ago, the Lord put it on my heart to write my next book, which dives a little deeper into each of those four keys that we talked about last time I was on your show.

And so, number one, that book is not what I thought it would be.

So this is such a great example of, like, the Lord gives you an assignment, you are obedient, and you think it's going to look one way, and it looks totally different.

I really expected that I was going to be writing about the nuts and bolts of each of those keys that we talked about for.

So just to remind everyone, the four keys to redefine hustle define direct discipline, develop.

So I thought, oh, well, I'm going to write about, like, here's why the Lord is the authority to define us, and here's how he directs us, and what does that look like?

And here's.

Here's what your daily action should be, to be disciplined and etc.

And, man, Kristen, and I know you've experienced this, like, you sit down to be obedient and to do it.

And the Lord takes that obedience.

And sometimes it does look the way you thought it was going to look, but other times, he shifts you, and he, because you're obedient, you're willing to be shifted, right?

You're willing to allow him the margin to do that, and he really did that.

So as I wrote that content that'll be coming out next year with Redemption Press, man, I just was blown away.

Like, the depth of the word, the depth of his truth that he took me into, it took me in such different directions.

And then what he had me do as I was writing the book is then turn that into a masterclass.

Why?

Because, listen, you know, my.

My first book, Pursuing Success God's Way, talked a lot about my story, but how do we pursue success, Right?

And what he was revealing to me and has continued to reveal to me is that as ambitious women, we're really good at Pursuing.

We're really good at going after it.

We're really good at identifying it and going.

But are we willing to let go of that wheel?

Are we willing to let.

To follow our gps, our great positioning Shepherd?

And therefore, it's really about navigating, which is.

Which is why my podcast is.

Is navigating success as a Christian woman, because the world throws, like, all the definitions at us and all the expectations at us.

But are we navigating with him leading?

And so that's.

That's really what I've been working on since we last talked.

And it's also something that I myself am navigating.

Right.

Because sometimes the outcomes don't look the way we think, or sometimes we don't even get to see them.

I mean, think about Moses, right?

He didn't even get to go into the promised land, and that's really hard for us.

Absolutely.

Oh, my gosh.

So much good stuff there that we're definitely going to dig into in the next, you know, 30, 40 minutes.

But I have to tell you, even what you just said, which is we don't always get to see the outcomes.

I mean, there's so many stories, right?

Or then even over many generations that people talk about, you know, they plant the tree not for them, because it's going to take how many decades to grow big enough and to produce fruit?

But sometimes what we're working on isn't for today, it's for tomorrow or a year from now or five years from now or generations to come.

And so, one, we don't always get to see the outcomes, much like when you write a book or you have a podcast, whatever you might do like.

But if you're.

It could just be a conversation.

It doesn't have to be something in the public purview.

But what happens is we don't understand that people are listening.

People hear what we say, what we speak, how we act.

And through that, little seeds are planted.

That's right.

Right.

And so, like you said, we're not in charge of the outcome.

We're only in charge of our effort.

And are we listening?

Are we trying to do what.

What God's calling us into in different seasons?

Because it's going to change and it's going to look different.

And any person that's been alive for a period of time knows that, right?

Our circumstance change, what we're working on, career wise, might change.

So it's so true what you said.

And so I know we're going to dig into that later, too, a little bit More about outcomes.

But I guess the first thing I'd ask you is having, you know, having been where you're building, right, you're building for the kingdom.

You have, you know, business, you've written, you have a podcast, you have a platform, I guess.

What would you first tell us?

If people are listening and either they're doing the same in some way or they've thought about it, right?

They're just trying to figure out, like, well, yeah, but I, I agree.

I'm just afraid, like, I have this really well paying job, you know, I have all these things and, you know, we've both been there.

I've worked corporate.

I've done, you know, different things as well.

But what would you just say to anybody listening that's wondering, you know, what, what do you mean success looks different, you know, or.

So what would you say to us about like, chasing success, how the world defines it or someone else defines it for us versus what you've seen and learned along your journey?

Yeah, absolutely.

It's.

First of all, it's different because the Lord is so gracious when he does show us a pathway.

He doesn't have to do that and he doesn't always do that, right?

So success to the Lord, and this is something that I learned through studying some things that Dr. Charles Stanley wrote is about our relationship.

What he wants is our whole heart.

What he wants is all of us, right?

And so successful success as the Lord defines it is really about your relationship with Him.

What he does then is he gives each of us gifts and talents that he then gives us assignments, or I think author Kara Stott calls it commissions to walk out those gifts and talents and to make impact in the kingdom.

So success to him is really about giving ourselves over to him, giving him our whole heart, being fully surrendered, listening for him, seeking him along the way.

What we've been taught success is in a human context is the achievement, the title, the income, the followers, you know, all of these supposedly measurable things.

The problem with those things is not that we want them in our life.

The problem is twofold.

One is that we tend to idolize them.

So we put all of our energy and effort and focus into reaching these milestones.

So they in some ways become idols.

And the second issue is they are temporal, so they can change at any time.

You know, if you've ever lost a.

Job.

You may have been really successful, but you have no control over that, right?

You can do all the right marketing things and not have anybody buy your program.

And so if we're constantly chasing success as the world defines it, versus okay, Lord, you made me.

You know what my gifts are?

What is my assignment, and how do I do that?

We will be ultimately fulfilled only by Christ.

So while we may achieve these worldly things, and again, there's nothing wrong with that achievement that can never fully fulfill us.

So to the person who's like, well, how do I know that what I'm doing?

Like, I feel that the Lord gave me this assignment and I'm doing it, and I'm not seeing the result or the person who's like, I really feel like I'm supposed to write a book, but I'm afraid to step out there.

When fear enters the picture, I truly believe it's because we're concerned more about us than being obedient to what he's told us to do.

If he's told you to write that book and you're seeking him every step of the way, even in the fear, even in saying, lord, I'm afraid, show me he is faithful to bring the pieces together or make the introductions or give you the content.

You know, I came into writing my next book very.

It's my fourth book.

Like, I know how to do this.

I'm the expert.

Right.

But he wanted to go differently, and I had to be surrendered to that.

And when he started to show me what he wanted me to write, I was like, that is not.

Like, I'm not an expert on that scripture.

But he continued to say, I felt in my spirit, like, it's not about you.

Right?

It's not about you.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

And I mean, being that you.

We are both in.

In a area where we have to put ourselves out there.

And like you said, I am surely, you know, I haven't at this point gone to seminary or anything like that.

And so.

Right.

Like, all the time.

I'm sure we have those.

Those moments where, you know, doubt will seep in or comparison because it's human nature, you know, like.

Like you said, like, oh, wow, what are my metrics compared to someone else's?

When it's not.

We're not in a race.

Right.

But to your point is we all experience doubt and fear and having to pivot.

And like you said, it's.

It's really like, where are we going to make these choices?

Where are we going to try to feel confident that we're stepping in, doing the things that we're called to do?

Like you said in this season for this commission, for this assignment?

So I think that's so true.

And like you said, everyone has fear, for sure.

Well, and that's one thing that I just wanted to say is that please hear me.

I have not overcome these things and I will never overcome these things fully.

Well, let me step back.

I am chosen and redeemed.

You were chosen and redeemed.

Your listeners are right.

So we don't have to live in that way.

We can walk in the truth of who Jesus says we are and that he died to give us.

Right.

I now look at those opportunities of doubt, of fear, etc.

As another opportunity to turn back to him.

I think that we.

We want to think well, for if we're obedient and we're allowing the Lord to lead us, we'll never have those thoughts.

But instead, the Lord already knows we're human.

I believe he allows us, you know, he could take over our minds, but he doesn't because he wants to give us a choice.

We have free will.

I think those are such opportunities and, and almost tests of faith to turn us back to Him.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

So what about.

You talk a lot about so many things in your book that are really great.

But what about how do we.

From a faith perspective, as we're building something, or we're just going into a new season.

Right.

Maybe it's just a new career, but you don't have a business.

But overcoming obstacles and then just.

And then after that, I want to talk about just the.

You talk about being misaligned and then learning to kind of take on which we.

What we just talked about, like his assignment.

And so what would you just share with us about, first of all, the overcoming obstacles?

Well, first it's accepting the fact that obstacles exist and they will.

Yeah.

There is no perfect path there.

I don't, I don't care who you're following.

I don't care what money they make or how big their audience or there are obstacles.

You may never see those obstacles.

One thing that I love about being a Christian business coach and then being surrounded by people like you and others who are pouring into, you know, our assignment is pouring into our sisters in Christ is that we're pretty vulnerable.

Like, we're pretty willing to share that, that it's sometimes difficult.

Right.

And I think you don't always see that on.

From.

From some business gurus that are on stages.

So first of all, there are going to be obstacles, period.

Second of all, the Lord is your.

The Lord has gone before you.

So these obstacles are no surprise to Him.

They're not disappointments to him.

He's already made a way through them.

So overcoming those obstacles, I, I think is naming the obstacle, like, what is it really?

And taking that before the Lord and saying, lord, this looks like an obstacle.

Show me how.

Show me how to work it through this or around it.

So often I think we think we gotta bust down the wall or we gotta go around it or we gotta go over it when the only way is through.

So name the obstacles, take that before the Lord and okay, Lord, how do I embrace this but remain steadfast in you?

And then show me how to work through this or how to even leverage it.

That, to me is about overcoming obstacles.

That is different, Kristen, than knowing to the core that God has given you an assignment and you're digging in your heels like a toddler and saying, no, that's different than moving ahead.

If you're not experiencing some kind of obstacles, I would argue that you're standing still and the Lord's already said go and you're not going.

Right?

So true, isn't it?

Oh, my gosh.

Yeah.

And so one thing about obstacles, I think also sometimes we experience an obstacle or a setback, whatever we want to call it, you know, they can be different.

But part of it is, is that we're trying to tackle something too big at one moment, right?

And we need to break it down because like today I might not be able to do my.

This one objective I have in this one day, but I might be able to take one little hit at it, right?

One bite, one little.

But so that obstacle might be so big, right?

It might be such a God sized thing that he's asking someone to do, but it's not going to happen on our own.

So we have to go to other people or it's not going to happen in a day.

It might take us years, right?

I mean, we don't know.

So I think partly it's that we have to have a new perspective on it, right?

We have to think, like, I just need to write like that consistency, like I just have to move towards it, work a little bit.

You know, he's not saying that we're going to, we're going to knock through it today.

The whole thing, it's that we have to just be moving in that direction like you said, and not standing still.

You know, I love that you brought that up, Kristen, because what comes to mind for me is that sometimes the obstacle is we're overachieving or we're overwhelmed because we think there's so many steps and then we don't Take one single small step.

What comes to mind for me is at our church, we have a large.

The church I attend is a very large church here in Calver County, Maryland.

It's been through a lot of change over the last few years.

And there is one woman who has been contending for a women's ministry.

Now, she's been at this church, I don't know, 15 or 20 years.

For 10 years, the Lord has.

It has tarried.

Right?

It.

It.

She's been waiting.

She's been waiting.

She's been waiting, but was always.

And we may never know all the reasons why, but there was, like, obstacle after obstacle after obstacle.

But Elena was steadfast in that.

This is the vision the Lord has given me.

Okay, Lord, if it's not going to happen now, what is one thing I can do?

Oh, I can teach that class or I can gather this small group.

So on Monday night this week here in August, we had our first women's ministry gathering, like, to kick it off.

And she stood in tears at the front of the room and said, this is a vision that's taken 10 years.

Right.

But she never wavered in her trust and she never wavered in her willingness to do the small things.

Sometimes I think our obstacle is we've overthought it, and so we think it's bigger than it is.

Or the Lord has said, do this one thing.

And we say, but if I multiply that by three, I could do three things.

And he's like, no, no, no, I asked you to do one.

And so I think sometimes we're trying, like you said, to operate in our own strength and push a boulder when all he wants us to do is move a pebble.

Oh, absolutely.

I mean, I definitely, with the podcast, I mean, I still have more than one, but this is the primary.

I'll say the primary one.

And so many times, you know, I can get caught up in the like, oh, you know, oh, it's this big.

And don't get me wrong, it's not that it's teeny, but it's not as big.

It's not compared to people that are having millions of downloads at this point, you know, and no, not that I'm trying to get to a certain thing, but anytime I start having a thought, I'm like, oh, my gosh, hold on.

Why do we think that it's not having impact still, which we know the things we're doing are it God's having impact is what I should say.

But, you know, then you look back and you look at like, how many people from different countries, how many different countries have it impacted?

Countries that don't even allow Christianity.

Like, those might be small numbers in those countries, but it's like, I have to, like you said, sometimes I'm so close to it that I have blinders on and I have to, I have to come back to get my vision or my lens refocused to see a bigger picture, picture that God is painting that I can't see in the day to day, episode to episode.

And it's exactly what you're saying, which is, we already said this, but it really is about being consistent and obedient.

It's not about me saying, like, but today I didn't reach 100,000 people.

Or, I mean, not near that number per episode.

But you should say so I have to remind myself, like, I'm doing the work, I'm impacting people.

But for some reason we want, we get caught in the world where we see these people with bigger numbers and bigger metrics that have a bigger platform than I might.

And then we, we can get caught in that thinking.

Like you said, like, oh, I'm not building it big enough or fast enough.

But he never said that I could build bigger or faster.

Right.

He said, just, just do what I asked you to do and give glory to me.

That's what he called me to do.

That part, that part right there.

He never told you X, right?

I do the same thing.

I'm a podcaster and I look around and I'm like, how did that person hit a hundred thousand downloads?

And they've been.

I've been podcasting for six and a half years and I'm like, at 40, right?

Yeah.

So it's really easy for us to get caught up in that.

And I want to share two things.

The first thing is we don't ever see the full impact and that we can be changing one person's life.

I know you probably get this sometimes, as I do, where you just have this random person reach out to you and say, I just listened to your episode and it has made such a difference in my day.

Or.

Or whatever that is.

Right.

And that doesn't happen every day and it doesn't happen 150 times a day.

Right.

It might happen once a year, but you know that you've impacted a life.

I love what you said about this is reaching people in countries where Christianity and it could even be outlawed, where they could be persecuted for listening.

Right.

I mean, come on, the power in that.

And the second thing is we can get.

So I've been saying this a lot lately.

If we turn our phone from selfie mode to landscape with Jesus as the focal point.

Right.

We're so.

We're so like, me, me, me, me, me.

We wouldn't say, me, me, me.

Right.

We wouldn't say that.

But it's true when we're thinking about things like that.

Because do we need to have an eye toward measurement to make sure that our business is moving forward?

Yes.

But forward by what?

Metric?

That's right.

Yeah.

Oh, that's so good.

Yeah.

And just two things I would add to that, you know, for anybody.

Like, I said that whether.

Whether you're just.

I don't mean just as a word like that.

Like, whether you're working in a church, just as a volunteer, whether you're in ministry, whether it's just that you're a part of your community or teaching kids.

Right.

Whatever you do, or you're building something.

Right.

Like.

Or you're writing a book.

Too many of us, like you said, 1.

We forget that we only have to impact one person.

Right.

We're only here to.

To put out the message.

And I think Mark Batterson talks about that.

Like, sometimes we feel called to do something.

And I remember he said he.

There was some scripture very.

When he was much younger that he heard, and it was something God told him.

It was something like, he'll impact the nations.

And it wasn't until he had written several books that one of his friends or pastor friends or somebody had said, like, your books are literally written in multiple, many languages.

Like, they're.

And he goes, I never realized, like, he's a pastor in D.C. which is also of all the nations.

Right.

But he's like, I never was connecting the dots, but, like, I was already doing what God said I was gonna do.

Because sometimes we don't see it.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Like, that's why.

And we think it's gonna look a certain way.

That's right.

The outcome thing.

Yeah, It's.

It's definitely a hard thing to let go of, to surrender.

Yes.

So what else would you tell us?

I. I love one of the things you talk about is.

Well, we sort of talked about this, but, like, like you said, the Met, we're gonna have to have metrics and measurements a little bit if we're building something or even if we're not.

Like, even if you're in a marriage or you're raising children, like, at some point, you're like, is my marriage growing or thriving?

Is it not getting stagnant or worse.

Right.

Like, whatever it is, there's going to be a something we're looking at.

Yeah, but what I like is that you talk about his measurement.

So what else would you tell us?

I mean, we sort of alluded to that already, but is there anything else about being the steward, like you talked about earlier, of our gifts and our talents?

Is there anything more you'd add?

Yeah, I would add.

So often we either have gifts and talents, and we're like, yeah, I know.

I'm good at that.

And so we're willing to put our time and energy into that.

I think sometimes we have some gifts and talents that he gives us.

I was meeting with a client last week.

We were doing her strategic planning, and she said, one of my spiritual gifts is encouragement.

And she was like, I don't like to encourage people.

Like, get off your butt and go do the thing.

Like, why do you need me to applaud you?

And so are we going to trust that what he's given us, he is true?

And are we going to ask him how to steward that?

Right.

We think we know.

I just did a podcast this week about the disciples in the boat.

And I see.

I see it as two separate stories.

Like, there's the one where the storm raises up, and, you know, the Lord is in the boat and he's sleeping, and they're like, what are you doing?

And then he calms the wind and the waves.

And then I see it as a second separate story that he's not in the boat with them and he comes alongside.

And this is the opportunity for Peter to walk on water.

Now, please remember, there are what?

James, John, Peter, Andrew, There are at least four fishermen on this boat.

You know that they've navigated a boat.

You know that they've been on the Sea of Galilee.

It says in the Word, come on, Holy Spirit.

It says in the Word that the storms rise up out of nowhere.

One of my clients does international travel, and she's like, I've been on the sea when a storm comes out of nowhere, okay?

So these are fishermen.

They are experts.

You think they know he has gifted them.

And yet.

And yet they're freaking out because of the storm.

On one hand, they're freaking out, but Jesus is sitting, laying right there, right?

And then the second time, they freak out like they already experienced the last time.

You know what I'm saying?

And so my point is, like, we have these gifts and talents, and we think that they have to be used in a certain way, but Then we run into an obstacle, we run into a storm, and.

And we're immediately scrambling to make it all fit back together or figure out how to get through it.

And the Lord's like, but I know, like, I'm gifted with administration.

I'm really good at organizing things, and.

And yet I'll be in the middle of working on a project with a client, and I'm like, I don't understand how these pieces fit together.

And the Lord is like, really?

Really?

Yeah.

Let us remember that.

He Every perfect.

Every perfect.

I'm going to misquote it.

Gift is from the Lord.

What he has gifted you to do is for kingdom impact.

It's not about you.

It's for kingdom impact.

So how are you not stewarding those gifts?

Or have you been stewarding those gifts and now he's calling you in another direction and you're so comfortable.

Yes.

That.

That you're not.

You're like, I don't think I want to be shifted.

Yeah.

But yet there's something different that he wants or some other person that he wants you to reach.

So it really all comes back to surrender and obedience.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Well, what about that?

So what about obedience and listening?

Because I. I love reading stories, and a lot of my.

Not that the Bible obviously has stories in there as well about some of this stuff, but there's so many Christian authors that I love reading or pastors that share stories like this where, you know, you hear that little quiet voice and someone continues further or drives somewhere else or kept walking, whatever it is, and they.

They encounter a divine, you know, conversation, appointment, whatever you want to call it.

But.

Right.

And so, like, what would you.

What would you share with us about that as you worked with clients and.

But just the listening.

Well, you know, and kind of continuing to do that because I think it is easy, to your point, like, nope, I have my assignment.

I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing.

And he.

He shifts things quite a bit, you know.

And so what'd you share about that?

I very often will hear a client or even someone I'm not working with yet, a sister in Christ, say, I don't hear from the Lord.

What I actually hear them say is, I don't hear from the Lord like you do.

Yeah.

One of the things that it just so fascinates me and gives me chills to think about is that the Lord is so intentional and specific and unique in how he communicates with every single one of his children.

And so how you hear from the Lord or Experience that is different than me and, and someone else, etc.

I think it was a Priscilla Schreier Bible study, or I. I think it actually is her book Discerning the Voice of God.

And she talks about all the different ways that people experience Him.

Maybe it's in a song, maybe it's in a conversation, maybe it's in their quiet time, etc.

The key point is this one is that we have to slow down or get quiet enough to hear.

Yeah.

And that includes where am I spending my time, who am I spending my time with, what am I filling my time with?

Because if the Lord wants to speak to you through conversations with others, are you putting yourself in places where there are other discerning children of God?

If he speaks to you through music, then what are you listening to in the car?

If he speaks to you through scripture, are you spending time in Scripture?

Right.

We've gotta.

We've gotta position ourselves to hear.

We've gotta.

We've gotta slow down and allow that.

That space to hear.

And we've gotta accept that we are very unique individuals.

We're all made in the image of God, but He's made every single one of us different.

He's given every single one of us different gifts.

We may have some of the same gifts, but the way that he administers those are different.

So therefore, he's going to speak to us differently.

And often when I hear someone say, I feel like I'm walking through a dark place and God is nowhere to be found, or I. I can't find him or I can't hear him, my question is often, what was the last thing you heard him say?

And were you obedient to that?

And then secondly, maybe you are lying in bed all day under the covers and not willing to get up and walk.

Have you turned on worship music?

Have you turned to the Word and just laid it and said, show me where to go.

Right.

Because he will speak to you when you ask.

And I'm not saying that depression and anxiety and all the things aren't, you know, real for someone.

All I'm saying is I believe that we think we don't hear him and it's because we're not making space to hear Him.

Yeah.

Well, it reminds me, you know, I won't go through the whole parable story.

I mean, it's.

It's a story, but, you know, it's.

It's.

And I don't know that it was Christian or.

But it was.

It was based on God, but it's like somebody's in the boat and their boat starts leaking, but it's basically where like, he's.

All these things are sent.

Yes, it's a life jacket, eventually a helicopter.

But the person in the boat basically is like, well, no, I'm waiting for God to give me a sign.

And all of the things are basically like a way for him to be rescued.

But it goes back that whole thing about we in our mind have an idea of how he'll speak to us or how he's going to show up, but if we are stuck thinking that it's going to be like a feeling or auditory, whatever it is, we're gonna miss the other signs or if we will only pay attention to one thing.

Right.

But it's that whole.

Just like I've seen other examples where.

People were like, oh, I'm.

I'm in need of, let's say, a computer or something.

Right.

For their business.

Like, maybe they're starting up or just in their lives and they didn't have the money, but they're like, waiting, like, God, please give it to us.

And it's like, well, it didn't just magically appear, but then they had a conversation because they put themselves in the conversation and the person's like, oh, I have an extra computer.

I can give you.

Amen.

So sometimes it's.

We have to let people.

It's not just secret.

Being in secret by ourselves and praying to God always.

Like, we have to be in the world, in community with other people, because often God places us to answer prayers.

Yes, we're doing his work, even if.

He didn't communicate with both of us, like, hey, go tell Sarah Joe, right?

He's.

He's making it.

He's choreographing it or orchestrating it.

But.

But it's because we're where we're supposed to go or be that those things will happen.

Amen.

Two things come up for me in that, Kristen.

This is so good.

One is, as women, we are really not good at asking for help.

True.

But what if.

Let me paint, let me connect this dot.

Our obedience, regardless of what it is, I believe is always connected to someone else's blessing.

God has given us something to do because someone else is going to reap the benefit from that.

And it is up to us to say yes, even if we have no idea.

Right.

And.

And then secondly, because of that, who has been that you have no idea, has been given an instruction to do something that has to do with you, but you haven't been willing to Open your mouth and ask for help, right?

Like, this is a perfect example.

So last week, a good friend of mine was telling me about a family that she and her husband will often help, and she said, their electricity is about to be turned off.

And I've reached out to my parents and asked if they would be willing to give.

Now, please know, in the middle of this, which she didn't know at the time, is I was really struggling around money.

And I.

And I don't mean, like, I didn't have what I needed, but I was like, looking so far ahead going, but, Lord, what about this?

And what about this?

And.

And this client, Their contract ended, and that's like X dollars that I don't have now, et cetera, et cetera.

So I'm in the middle of, like, my own whirlwind.

And she says this to me.

And I immediately went, I felt in my spirit, go pay that bill.

And I was like, really?

I didn't take time to calculate right, which is rare for me because I'm all about calculating.

But I, I immediately responded to her and I was like, can you please send me the website for that, because I'm going to pay off that bill.

And she was like, what?

I wasn't asking you that.

And I'm like, you weren't asking me that.

But by saying it, the Lord prompted me and I have to be obedient to go pay that bill.

And again, like, if she.

She didn't say it to me to ask for help, but she just said it.

And, and so my point is, like, who are you not asking for help?

Or.

Or who.

How are you keeping everything inside to keep up a front, been there or not, or afraid to speak up?

Like, hey, do you know anybody that.

Because maybe you think you have to solve the problem yourself and see that that is an enemy trick, too.

Because he'll be like, you should solve this.

Or, well, what do you mean you need help?

Why can't you handle this?

You know what I mean?

So I think we don't give enough space to ask for help, and therefore someone else is like that.

It's.

It's all.

You said this earlier.

Like, he's perfectly orchestrating all the pieces.

That's right, exactly.

He's positioning us.

If we follow that, it's kind of the.

You know, normally I go to this gas station, I go to this.

But I, I just felt like, you know what?

I want to go to this other store.

Like, either because you felt God prompted you, or you just for some reason had this, like, idea to do it.

Yeah, do it.

Just do it.

Like, there's usually a reason.

And it might not be that you have immediate interaction.

It might be that something you saw, a message.

It might be.

And it might not even be a message.

It seemed to Faith, but something will impact you or someone else because you showed up there, even if you don't know it.

And so I don't remember who it was.

Someone that's a well known Christian voice.

We'll just say a woman.

I don't think it was Jenny Allen, but it was someone kind of like that.

But she was sharing that she had.

She had gone.

This was earlier in their life, I think, but they had gone through a breakup when they were younger, but they were just feeling horrible.

They.

They were on their way home from work, and they're like, I'm just gonna go get, I don't know, some sort of fast food or donuts.

And they're just having the worst day.

So they go in, they try to get their thing, they're trying to leave, and this woman comes in and they're like.

Or she's like, I should say not.

They.

Like, she got that prompting, like, you should say something to her.

But, you know, whoever this, like, person that I follow online was like, I don't really want to.

I'm having a bad day.

And so they go to their car and they kept having that, yeah, voice of the spirit, like, you need to go back.

And so they open their door, they're really trying to leave.

They're like, no, you know, I don't want to do this.

And so they get in their car.

She gets in her car, and she's like.

Then she realizes, I have to.

I have to go back.

I don't want to go back.

I.

So she goes back and just asks the woman, like, hey, maybe the woman was crying, I think.

And she's like, hey, are you okay?

Like, do you need anything?

And anyway, so they talked.

The woman's like, I'm fine.

Like, no, I. I don't need you.

You know, maybe she said, do you want me to pray with you?

And she might have even said, no.

But later, the, the.

Whoever posted this said, you know, at first I was like, well, God, why did you even want me to go back?

Like, she didn't even want prayer.

She didn't want me to pay for anything.

Like, she didn't need help or she didn't want my help.

And.

And at first you can be frustrated.

The outcome, like, why did you make me go back?

Like, I didn't want to.

I'm having a rough day.

But on further reflection, she realized I might have been one of the first encounters this person had with being Christ in the world.

And it might not be till her 10th encounter that this woman comes further towards Christ.

But sometimes we think we're going to be like, the person or the thing where everything changes for somebody, or it's so huge.

Or maybe we do something nice for somebody and they're not nice back to us, and we want to be like, but I did what you said, Lord.

But that's really not what He's.

He's not saying, like, they're gonna pat you on the back and cheers you.

He's saying, I'm asking you to be obedient for you to show up.

And I think that's the point is because we're worried about the outcome or how we are perceived in.

In the.

In the circumstance.

Instead of, did I do what God wanted me to do?

Amen.

Amen.

Just have to keep focused on that.

That's so such a powerful story.

And.

And, you know, every time I do a strategy day with a client, we're really, like, taking all the ideas and opportunities out of their head, and they're mapping it out and talking about their services and the pricing and their work rhythms and how do they, you know, harmonize that with their family?

All Holy Spirit led.

But every time I say to them, the Holy Spirit has led us through this exercise, and you can look around the room and see all the flip charts that.

That we've written on today.

Are you going to be okay to lay this at the foot of the cross and possibly have the Lord say, thank you for being obedient today?

But now I'm taking you this way, right?

Wait a minute.

I've just put in all this work to put all this in paper, and now you want to change everything?

Like, are we obedient?

To lay that down?

Because sometimes I. I firmly believe that the Lord gives us something not to test us, but the opportunity to be obedient, especially when it's out of our comfort zone, especially when we don't want to get out of the car and do that, because he just wants to.

Know.

That we are obedient.

And he.

He wants to.

He wants to flow, flood us with his lavish grace and his hope and his love.

Not so we will perform, but he wants to know that we're obedient.

And the second thing you said, which I think is so true, again, going back to outcomes, like, we want to know that we had the one conversation and they gave their life to Jesus that day.

But it is not in our power.

Right.

But the beauty of what we have as Christians in the marketplace with a mission is that we get to reflect Jesus.

And we may be the only experience of Jesus that that person ever gets.

Not everyone that I work with and not everyone that listens to your podcast, and not every Christian business owner serves strictly a Christian audience.

Sure.

Right, Right.

And so if you are a copywriter and you are working with a secular business, no, you're not going to go in and change everything that you're writing to include secretly Jesus in the words.

Right.

But what you do get to.

What you do get to bring is his light.

So when they're in chaos, you get to be the calm.

When they're in peril, you get to be the peace, like, because you have Jesus.

And who knows, if in that moment that person goes, there is something different about you.

Tell me what that is.

Right.

We're just here to be his ambassadors and to reflect his light.

And he puts us in places and spaces and through businesses that allow us to intersect with people.

And so you're right.

Like, yes, she went and said that.

And maybe that person was like, dude, back off.

Right.

But now it's planted a seed.

That's right.

And who knows what soil.

Right.

That that seed has landed on.

But, but we were obedient.

Not to be like, haha, I was part of that journey.

No, no, no.

But to be obedient because it's, it's, it's what he deserves from us, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

So good.

Okay, so what, what, what else would you like to share with us?

Just whether it's from your book or things you share in your podcast that you think will just encourage and you know, might be little tidbits that the audience can take away.

Yeah.

So this week in my email.

So I do a weekly email, so if you're not on my email list, you can download my devotional erin harrigan.com devotional and I just want to share something that I wrote in my email because I've had a number of people come back to me and say, oh my gosh, that was so powerful.

And I'm like, okay, well, I shared it because it's what I just walked through.

I was on a long drive last week.

I went to North Carolina to do this strategy day.

And so I had a lot of time alone with the Lord.

And so you gotta know, like, I'm listening to worship music I have CC Winans on repeat right now.

But I also took the time to ask him some pointed questions.

And the Lord is not afraid of our pointed questions.

Okay?

And as I was asking these questions, like, okay, here's what you gave me to do, and I did it, but I'm not seeing the outcomes that I like.

Nothing seems to be happening in this space like planting these seeds, and nothing is coming up.

And.

And here's what he gave me.

I've been recently reading in John, and John 7:18 jumps out at me because Jesus is being he.

Like, they're questioning his authority.

And he says, the one who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory.

Okay, so there's that selfie mode, right?

But the one who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in them there is no falsehood.

And what he laid on my heart is, if you are seeking to glorify me and you're doing what I've given you to do, don't question if you're an imposter, don't question, did I do it the right way?

Don't question, like, are people really going to listen to me?

Right.

I hear that a lot from women, and these are very successful women who are like, but.

But who am I to stand in this space?

And I'm like, God put you in the space.

The point is, you are not an imposter.

So I know imposter syndrome.

Like, I get it.

It's there.

We're looking left and right, even though he tells us not to do that.

But I feel like this scripture here said to me, like, if you are doing what glorifies the Lord, there is nothing false about you.

You are not an imposter.

That's right.

Yeah.

I love that.

So I haven't shared this in quite a while on the podcast, but I'll just share it real quick and then we'll jump into the last question or two.

But.

So when I had first started this podcast, first it was called Spark of Faith.

And when I first did the first, I don't know, let's say six episodes, I don't recall what it was, under 10, for sure.

I had had the other podcast, building a life you love for six months or eight months prior to starting this one.

But I kept feeling that prompt to start a Christian podcast.

The other one would talk about faith.

Somebody was.

It's not.

It wasn't a faith only podcast or Christian only podcast.

So I'm laying in bed one morning, and my husband, he was still in bed, but I was awake and I was thinking about the podcast.

I hadn't told a soul that I had start.

Had started this one yet.

Right.

Like, it was just my thing.

It was because I was trying to be faithful, but I wasn't really ready.

I wasn't really sure about all this.

So this is, you know, a couple.

I think I've done this one for three years or somewhere in there, something like that.

Three something.

So it was.

This was probably December, several years back, December, January.

And I. I'm laying there thinking about the podcast and literally, my husband's.

He's still.

He uses his phone for an alarm, but he also uses alarm clock.

And he has two alarms.

One's always beep, beep, beep.

Actually, both of them are usually that, right.

On an old school alarm clock.

On a very rare occasion, music will come through, but it's not normally Caleb or anything.

It's like some I don't even know.

And it's normally fuzzy because it's in between channels because he's not usually right out of as Clear as day.

It came on and it said, give glory to God.

And it turned off, I guess, clear as day.

A man's voice, no music.

And I was like, what was that like?

Seriously?

I was like, holy cow.

Like, I've never had anything like that happen before or since.

And it was like, okay.

I think I was just told the marching orders, like, don't.

Because I think I had grappled with.

I've always been a person of faith.

Like, I grew up in faith.

Like, sure.

But I.

For a long time when I worked in corporate and before I started my own stuff this time, I always felt like faith or part of me was compartmentalized.

And obviously I was feeling more called to talk, you know, write and talk about my faith.

But it was like, when I heard that message, like, I already knew I needed to talk about my faith, but it was like God was very clear.

Like, you need to keep pointing people back to me.

You know what I mean?

And I was like, okay, Lord, I got the message.

You know what I mean?

I was like, yeah, okay.

Because, you know, I was.

I wasn't grappling with like, do I give glory to God?

I was grappling with like, is this the right thing?

Should I really be doing that?

Like, is this what I do?

And it was very clear.

It was like, that is what you're supposed to be doing, you know, and whatever you do.

Of course he asked us to do that.

But anyway, so I only share that because, yes, Absolutely.

It's about pointing people back to him, not us.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yes.

Even when it's hard or even when sometimes we can get pulled out of that a little bit, you know, at least a little bit, because it's so easy to.

In the environment and the culture we live in.

Oh, yeah.

No.

Oh, yeah.

I love it.

Okay, so any last things that you want to share before I ask you a final question?

No.

Bring on the question.

So the last question is really just a fun one.

It's really just what is fueling you up right now?

Like at the end of, you know, we're in August, wrapping up summer.

So it can be something faith based.

It can be business.

It can be a fun thing.

It can be multiple things, but just, you know, just.

It's fun to ask and hear that from.

From our guests.

Yeah.

What's fueling me right now?

It's actually a personal thing.

So I've recently written a chapter for a collaborative book, and it's on.

It's called Kids Learn the Darndest Things.

And it's a.

The chapter is.

And it's, you know, basically, like, what do your kids learn from you being in business?

What's fueling me right now is watching my adult daughters navigate life.

I have one getting closer to her relationship with Jesus.

I have one who doesn't believe and still watching them navigate job change, navigate negotiating salaries.

The two of them are very different people, and they've never had a close relationship.

But my older daughter is getting married next May, and my younger daughter is her maid of honor.

So watching them come together and have conversations about, like, this is what we want the shower to be like.

And that, you know.

Yeah.

That it.

It's fueling me so much because it's this really interesting season where I'm seeing my kids live out the things that I've taught them, the things that they've caught that I didn't teach.

Right.

And prayerfully, the.

The Lord guiding them.

And it also is a really interesting season because I know shortly after my daughter gets married, I don't know if it'll be six months or a year.

I know that she wants to have a baby.

And so I'm like.

I'm like staring down grandma, which, by the way, is my exit strategy for my business.

So I'm kind of like, wow, like, what am I going to do over these next two to three years and be obedient to you, Lord?

So that is really fueling me.

The idea of legacy is really fueling me right now.

Not Just.

And because there are times, I don't know if you have this, Kristen, but there are times where I'm like, can I shut all this down now?

And I think, well, you've given me this next book that's coming out next year, but what if you call me to shut this all down?

And again, it's that idea of legacy.

It's not about me and what Aaron does with the book, and it's about the path that it takes women on beyond me writing.

And I think of all the incredible works that you've probably read, I'm Walking Through My Utmost for His Highest by Oswald Chambers.

He has long since gone to be with the Lord.

But that is legacy, right?

And I don't need a platform like that.

That's not what I mean.

But just like what am I doing now that in my obedience that that is blessing someone else for the long haul?

Absolutely.

Well, yeah, I mean, it's.

Right.

It's kind of what, what I alluded to earlier, which is it's what are we doing now for future generations?

That can be what we write.

It can be, of course, investing in people, right.

In relationships.

Like it's.

Sometimes it's just writing something down for our actual families.

It can be anything, right?

It can be, it can be documenting just family history.

I mean, it can be so many things.

Right?

Like, so absolutely.

I love that and I'll just share just because I think it.

It's much like we talked about being vulnerable like you talked about.

How we are in these spaces, I think is so important and being real and being honest.

And So I have three sons, 18 to 23, and I'm in a similar boat as far as where they are with their faith.

One is like wanting to dig in, one is questioning his faith and.

But very like research oriented, legalistic about it.

And like.

Well, how can.

Well, what can you tell me that would prove this to me?

You know, and so they're kind of all in three different places and you know, lots of prayers over them all the time for everything they walk through and that they will get to where, you know, and how God wants to use them.

But, you know, so I only share that because, you know, there's many people that are like, oh, my kids, yeah, they're all Christians and everybody's.

But like, that's not where my I find my kids at.

Right?

They're all at different places.

And you know, and I also know that you can't force that on people.

We all have our own journeys.

Even though they were Introduced to, you know, God and having a relationship or trying to.

When they were young, you know, maybe there was a time when as they got older that it wasn't just because things happen with COVID and things.

So they weren't as in that practice.

But I only share that to just say, look, two of us who are literally here to encourage women to work with people, all these things.

We are both have families with young adult or adult children that are walking through, questioning their faith.

They're trying to figure it out and find their way on their faith journey.

So I just want to just acknowledge that because I think it's important that a lot of people walk through this with their adult children.

And, you know, it's just, it is, you know, it, it's just a reflection of the world and the times as well.

Oh, yeah.

But anyways, I just wanted to share that because I think sometimes people don't hear us.

I mean, I have probably talked about that before, but not a lot.

And I think it's important, right, to just say, like, look, you know, if you're, if you're walking through something like this, like, you're not alone.

You know, just like we want to fix the outcomes on everything or know the outcomes.

You know, it's the same with our children.

Of course, we would all love certain things to be perfect for them and, you know, maybe their faith to be growing and wonderful, but, you know, we have to let them go through their journey of figuring it out for themselves to some extent.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that's what's, that's what's, you know, exciting for me right now.

I love it.

That's.

That's amazing.

It is beautiful to watch our kids as they flourish and, and yeah, maybe take a step back as they flourish and grow.

But they're learning, right?

They're.

They're creating their own beautiful lives, which is pretty beautiful to watch.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay, so Erin, can you share with everybody where can they find out about your books, your podcast, and, you know, just how women work with you?

And then the, you know, you mentioned the, the devotional.

Devotional, yes.

Yeah.

People find all that good stuff, so find me@erinharrigan.com.

that's the best place.

And if you do want to join my email list, you can download my five day audio devotional.

So Erin harrigan.com devotional.

But my website is where you'll find my books, my podcast, how to Work with Me, all the good stuff.

Awesome.

Well, thank you for coming on and joining us today.

Talking about, you know, following Jesus, trying to pursue, you know, step into our gifts and talents for his kingdom, for his good, and not just pursuing what the world tells us, successes and just sharing your heart with us today.

Thank you, Kristen.

It's been an honor.

Thanks.

As we wrap up today's episode, I just wanted to share a couple other tidbits with you that spoke to me and I thought really related well to this episode.

The first is by my friend Rebecca Float from her book Own youn Brush.

She says, remember how we talked about seeds?

Every moment of your life is a seed.

You're either planting seeds for your vision of what you want or you are planting seeds of doubt that your dreams will not happen.

Every moment you don't invest in your future, you are doubting what could and will happen.

Dream large and take action.

Creativity reigns in what is available to you now.

Don't wait for your dreams to come to you.

Use what you have and start planting for your future.

Okay.

I love that she is an artist.

She's also an entrepreneur and I think now she is also a real estate agent.

But she's continuing to go after her dreams and pursue bigger and more things.

The next thing that I wanted to share with you is Mark Patterson's Draw the Circle.

And he says the plans of God are only revealed in the presence of God.

We don't get our marching orders until we get on our knees.

But if we hit our knees, God will take us places we never imagined going by paths we didn't even know existed.

Another thing he says in that same book is people ask, what should I circle?

We're talking about prayers here.

And he says the purpose of prayer is to get into God's presence so he can outline his agenda for us.

God will reveal a promise, problem, or person, then circle whatever God has prompted you to pray for with the same kind of consistency with which the earth circles the sun.

And you know, I think that that was really relevant because it's much about what we talked about about we will have encounters if we kind of follow where God is leading us and we are actually moving in the world.

And then what I wanted to share is by Bob Goff in his devotional book called Catching whimsy.

It's from January 21st and it says, don't limit what God can do in and through you with your magnificent One in history combination of gifts and abilities.

And don't worry about having it all figured out in advance.

You'll connect the dots as you go.

How good is that and how related is it to what we talked about, about using our gifts and talents in the world and for the kingdom.

I loved that.

And I wanted to wrap up sharing this other, I guess quote from the Catch and Whimsy Devotional.

It says, Is faith easy?

Of course not.

Will we know all the moves to make and when to make them 100 times?

No.

The reason is simple.

We're looking through the mirror dimly rather than faking it and pretending you have clarity on things you are only guessing about.

Bring those things to Jesus and ask him to help you work through them.

And I thought that was so relevant to what we talked about, which is oftentimes we don't know everything.

We don't know the path.

We're not going to know the whole path.

But we can ask others for help.

We can ask others for guidance.

But of course we need to take it all to him, right?

He's the one that's going to help us get clear.

He's the one that's going to help us see more clearly if we are on the mission that he is calling us into in this season.

So I wanted to let you know, if you haven't already joined my email newsletter, head over to KristinFitch.com and you can grab one of my free downloads.

One of them is called Creating a life you love and it will really help you get clear on your priorities and your values so that you can step into tomorrow and the next years to really establish your legacy and what it is you want to be doing in the world.

Thanks again for listening to the show.

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