Transcripts
Hello and welcome to the Close the Loop podcast.
Kevin Dieny:I'm your host, Kevin Dieny, and today we're gonna be talking
Kevin Dieny:about changing employee behaviors.
Kevin Dieny:That's not gonna be the easiest thing.
Kevin Dieny:Hah, I think, uh, gosh, you have to put yourself back, right?
Kevin Dieny:Those first, that first week, that first few days, maybe where you step into
Kevin Dieny:the role of management or leadership.
Kevin Dieny:You know, anytime where you're overseeing employees, maybe you're working on a
Kevin Dieny:project indirectly for the first time.
Kevin Dieny:Uh, many have found themselves going, Man, I wish I could change , change
Kevin Dieny:this person, or change this role, or change this employee for the better.
Kevin Dieny:And then we'd all be better off!
Kevin Dieny:Hah hah...
Kevin Dieny:Uh, maybe not.
Kevin Dieny:Maybe everything's just been smooth sailing for you, so you
Kevin Dieny:might be an expert in this.
Kevin Dieny:Uh, changing the behaviors of employees is, I would say difficult.
Kevin Dieny:I mean, changing the behaviors of anyone is difficult.
Kevin Dieny:Throughout this whole thing, I, in doing the research for this
Kevin Dieny:episode, I kept thinking about, man, this is so much like parenting.
Kevin Dieny:This is so much heh...
Kevin Dieny:There's so much involved in, in this.
Kevin Dieny:And a lot of this comes from knowledge of parenting mixed with what I'm
Kevin Dieny:learning about and managing and changing behaviors of others and, and employees.
Kevin Dieny:Uh, changing the behaviors of it yourself.
Kevin Dieny:Uh, it's all difficult.
Kevin Dieny:Heh, uh, it's very difficult to do.
Kevin Dieny:It's not something that I think inherently is built into every single
Kevin Dieny:person, how to do this perfectly.
Kevin Dieny:Uh, even what's even more interesting is how much people
Kevin Dieny:think this isn't even possible.
Kevin Dieny:. Uh, there's a lot of employees who say our managers and both employees and
Kevin Dieny:managers say, What are you thinking?
Kevin Dieny:You know, you have to hire the right person for the role and that's it.
Kevin Dieny:You're stuck.
Kevin Dieny:You're not gonna be changing their behaviors, you're not
Kevin Dieny:gonna change their attitudes.
Kevin Dieny:That doesn't happen!
Kevin Dieny:Um, one of the studies I saw said that, that from the thousands of managers that
Kevin Dieny:they interviewed, it was 50%, pretty close to 50% cut down the middle that believed
Kevin Dieny:you could change employee behavior, and the other side said you could not.
Kevin Dieny:So that's a pretty divisive, pretty divided idea.
Kevin Dieny:Pretty divided conclusion for managers.
Kevin Dieny:So this topic could be divisive.
Kevin Dieny:I am just warning you now.
Kevin Dieny:But, I'm gonna give you some input.
Kevin Dieny:I, I have some training, I have some experience doing this, I've read a
Kevin Dieny:little bit and I've seen what the research has to say, what has worked from
Kevin Dieny:studies, what managers have had to say.
Kevin Dieny:And so that's what I'm gonna be bringing to the table today.
Kevin Dieny:Hopefully will help you, guide you toward what I think could be some interesting
Kevin Dieny:ideas that could help you change the behavior of your employees so that you
Kevin Dieny:can improve the growth of your business.
Kevin Dieny:I think it goes without saying that if business leaders could grow their
Kevin Dieny:business better, they would want to.
Kevin Dieny:If that requires them to change the behavior of their employees,
Kevin Dieny:they may go, Hmm, is that worth it?
Kevin Dieny:Is that possible?
Kevin Dieny:So, yeah, let's dive in.
Kevin Dieny:Uh, here's a great, uh, headline for you.
Kevin Dieny:The best managers at changing the behavior of their employees
Kevin Dieny:are going to rely on feedback.
Kevin Dieny:We've had an episode, well, I think it was our very first episode, and a
Kevin Dieny:couple episodes after that where we've really dived in and focused on feedback.
Kevin Dieny:Feedback is any time that you're learning from the outputs of something.
Kevin Dieny:So the faster...
Kevin Dieny:Remember again, the faster you can you wanna learn, the more behaviors
Kevin Dieny:you wanna change, the better you want to change your behavior.
Kevin Dieny:It's gonna rely on high frequency, high quality feedback.
Kevin Dieny:So we're gonna talk about how to get there with employees.
Kevin Dieny:But the truth is, at the end of the day, right, some employees may not
Kevin Dieny:be willing to change, may not want to change, There may not be an incentive
Kevin Dieny:or a motivator, an intrinsic or extrinsic value to them in changing.
Kevin Dieny:The culture of your environment of where you work, of your company
Kevin Dieny:may not even be suitable for handling this change that you want.
Kevin Dieny:I mean, uh, it's like you're asking them to change when
Kevin Dieny:you're not willing to change.
Kevin Dieny:So a lot of this at the end of the day, I think too, comes down to the manager,
Kevin Dieny:the leader, being able to model and create an environment where the behaviors you
Kevin Dieny:want are part of the culture, right?
Kevin Dieny:Sustainable culture that you have.
Kevin Dieny:Again, let's dive right into the what the antagonistic opposite of this is, right?
Kevin Dieny:So what are people saying around changing employee behavior where
Kevin Dieny:they say it can't be done, no way.
Kevin Dieny:So what are the most common arguments against it?
Kevin Dieny:So we'll start there, the first one is, you could not successfully
Kevin Dieny:change employee behaviors.
Kevin Dieny:Right, you might be able to correct it in the short term.
Kevin Dieny:You might be able to bend it to your will through force or coercion,
Kevin Dieny:but you're not able to actually change their attitude or behavior.
Kevin Dieny:Well, that's an interesting one, right?
Kevin Dieny:I mean, 50% believe that.
Kevin Dieny:So, uh, maybe that's the case, but I don't believe that that is, and the
Kevin Dieny:reason I don't think that that's true is.
Kevin Dieny:That I, I believe that people want a better environment.
Kevin Dieny:People, you know, you come to work for a company, if you're not there to help
Kevin Dieny:the company grow or you don't want to be part of that, you don't want to,
Kevin Dieny:you know, you don't believe in the mission, what the company stands for,
Kevin Dieny:what it's trying to achieve, right?
Kevin Dieny:With its purpose or where it's headed, it's vision.
Kevin Dieny:You know, if none of that aligns with you as an employee, I think
Kevin Dieny:we're looking and talking about an employee, maybe disgruntled, maybe
Kevin Dieny:someone who's not really, there maybe not doesn't belong there, right.
Kevin Dieny:There's probably a better place for them.
Kevin Dieny:So we're specifically, I think what I'm thinking of as I'm picturing
Kevin Dieny:the average typical employee, right.
Kevin Dieny:Who may have things that are more important to them than work, right.
Kevin Dieny:Lots, I think that's the general, the case.
Kevin Dieny:You know, their family, their friendship, social, um, the social
Kevin Dieny:standing they have with their coworkers, people around them, their reputation.
Kevin Dieny:They may need the job for financial purposes too, obviously.
Kevin Dieny:But at the end of the day, I think, you know, they are there for more
Kevin Dieny:than just to, to complete a task.
Kevin Dieny:This is my belief, and I think if that's true, then an employees can
Kevin Dieny:be motivated, their attitudes can change, their behaviors can change.
Kevin Dieny:And it, I think it helps best when again, the manager or the leader is modeling
Kevin Dieny:that behavior that they want to change.
Kevin Dieny:So second argument against changing employee behavior, okay, is employees
Kevin Dieny:will only change for substantial financial or monetary incentives.
Kevin Dieny:Well, I think that it is pretty well established that financial
Kevin Dieny:incentives are very strong.
Kevin Dieny:. You do this, you get money for it.
Kevin Dieny:I mean, the nature of work, you work, you get paid, right?
Kevin Dieny:what else is there?
Kevin Dieny:But there's a lot, there's actually an interesting paradigm that a
Kevin Dieny:lot of, um, business management consulting companies have been
Kevin Dieny:trying to uncover psychologically, what are people motivated by?
Kevin Dieny:What are people willing to change for, Right.
Kevin Dieny:And that, I think at the top of that are things like, it
Kevin Dieny:aligns with who their values.
Kevin Dieny:Who they see themselves as, what things they stand for.
Kevin Dieny:They're willing to change when it aligns with their existing values, right?
Kevin Dieny:They have a place or position where they currently are, but something is better.
Kevin Dieny:Just over the fence.
Kevin Dieny:, the grass is greener over there.
Kevin Dieny:They'd be willing to go there when it aligns with their values.
Kevin Dieny:There's other things too, right?
Kevin Dieny:Makes it easier to do your job.
Kevin Dieny:Uh, there might be a case where it's a better environment for you, for your work.
Kevin Dieny:It's a shorter commute.
Kevin Dieny:Maybe there's benefits, there's, there's a lot of, I think things you could
Kevin Dieny:say are incentive incentivizing for someone to go after, besides financial.
Kevin Dieny:That some people may value more than others.
Kevin Dieny:I don't think there's just a, I think in general financial is the number one, but
Kevin Dieny:there are other things that people value.
Kevin Dieny:Right.
Kevin Dieny:What do you value?
Kevin Dieny:What's important to you?
Kevin Dieny:You know, if someone said, Well, what would it take for
Kevin Dieny:you to work 10 more minutes, 15 more minutes every day at work?
Kevin Dieny:I mean, you may be like, Well, I accidentally do that all the time.
Kevin Dieny:, or I go way beyond that every day.
Kevin Dieny:But if someone brought it up to you at first and said, Okay.
Kevin Dieny:You know, what would it cost or what would help you work that extra?
Kevin Dieny:10, 15 minutes every day.
Kevin Dieny:Right?
Kevin Dieny:Is it just financial?
Kevin Dieny:Um, maybe you work that extra because the traffic is lighter or you know, there
Kevin Dieny:might be benefits of leaving a little earlier to catch a family or sports game.
Kevin Dieny:A son or daughters softball, soccer team game or practice or something like that.
Kevin Dieny:There are some interesting.
Kevin Dieny:Values that people have, and the better that a manager or a leader, I
Kevin Dieny:believe, understands those things for each employee, the better they can be.
Kevin Dieny:And again, that's something you gain through feedback, through having a
Kevin Dieny:conversation, maybe one on ones, uh, at some routine basis with employees.
Kevin Dieny:So last one.
Kevin Dieny:The last counter to, it's not possible to change employee behavior.
Kevin Dieny:Right.
Kevin Dieny:And that is, uh, changes to employee behaviors always revert back to the
Kevin Dieny:way they were after a short time . This one really makes me laugh because as
Kevin Dieny:I encounter, have encountered this and do encounter this all the time, right?
Kevin Dieny:Sure.
Kevin Dieny:You.
Kevin Dieny:You say, Hey, will you do something?
Kevin Dieny:I'll pay you an incentive, financial incentive.
Kevin Dieny:If you do this thing, then you get paid, and people may do it, but
Kevin Dieny:how do you get 'em to keep doing it and stay doing it for a long time?
Kevin Dieny:You know?
Kevin Dieny:Will it continue to hold the same value to them, or will it have to,
Kevin Dieny:the value have to be increased.
Kevin Dieny:Will you know, now that you've had them achieve, let's say, you know, now
Kevin Dieny:they're 70%, how do you get 'em to 80%?
Kevin Dieny:Right?
Kevin Dieny:How do you keep, Let's.
Kevin Dieny:A change, moving in the right direction, sustainable change, . I do believe it's
Kevin Dieny:hard, and I think the, the, the reason I think that this one is so common and so
Kevin Dieny:true, is that by default, right people, it's hard to turn a behavior into a habit.
Kevin Dieny:You have, you know, you're doing something maybe all the time at work.
Kevin Dieny:Maybe not at home.
Kevin Dieny:Maybe you're doing, you know, what you're doing, uh, for the behavioral change, but
Kevin Dieny:it's just not setting in something about it isn't settling down to the point where
Kevin Dieny:you would do it that way all the time.
Kevin Dieny:And to get behaviors and attitudes that become more permanent, to turn
Kevin Dieny:them into a more of a habit definitely requires, I think, a higher level
Kevin Dieny:approach to motivation than simply, you know, I think it takes a better
Kevin Dieny:understanding of the values of an employee to get them to push them to a
Kevin Dieny:sustainable habitual level of change.
Kevin Dieny:So that's why I think that one's absolutely problematic.
Kevin Dieny:. All right.
Kevin Dieny:So, um, I think we're gonna start out with the, there's a
Kevin Dieny:process here and I think you.
Kevin Dieny:It's best to deal with how we're going to get to changing employee behavior
Kevin Dieny:if we go through this, The process that it takes to get there, there is
Kevin Dieny:basically, I would say like four steps.
Kevin Dieny:This is what I have put together for this episode is I believe
Kevin Dieny:there's four steps right now.
Kevin Dieny:It, it's hard to remember on a podcast.
Kevin Dieny:, what was step number two again?
Kevin Dieny:When I'm on three.
Kevin Dieny:Okay, so I'll, I'll continue to reiterate them as we go so that
Kevin Dieny:you can follow along a little bit.
Kevin Dieny:Right.
Kevin Dieny:So the first one, very important.
Kevin Dieny:We're not even gonna be getting to the behaviors yet.
Kevin Dieny:We're not even gonna be getting . We're gonna be looking at this
Kevin Dieny:organizationally, which is what are the roles, the functions, the
Kevin Dieny:duties, and the schedule, right?
Kevin Dieny:Like how this all come fits together of your employees.
Kevin Dieny:So I'm talking about your direct reports, okay?
Kevin Dieny:If you have a lot direct reports, this could be a long, this is a big list.
Kevin Dieny:This is a big org.
Kevin Dieny:This is a big duties, functions, roles chart.
Kevin Dieny:Uh, take your take.
Kevin Dieny:Just one.
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:So why listening to this?
Kevin Dieny:Think of just one direct report employee and think of, okay, what's their role?
Kevin Dieny:What's their function?
Kevin Dieny:What's their duties?
Kevin Dieny:Okay, so let me define those.
Kevin Dieny:Their role is what is kind of like their asso is sort of
Kevin Dieny:like their authority, right?
Kevin Dieny:So what's their role That's unique to.
Kevin Dieny:Different than the other employees, like what's special, unique, and gives them
Kevin Dieny:the authority over what they're doing.
Kevin Dieny:If you have, there's a, there's a couple versions of this.
Kevin Dieny:One of them is like too many cooks in the kitchen.
Kevin Dieny:Okay?
Kevin Dieny:If you have too many redundant roles, doing a simple, doing the single role,
Kevin Dieny:all trying to do it all together in the same kind of localized place, you may
Kevin Dieny:have sort of a power struggle occurring.
Kevin Dieny:So, Obviously you can have people with the same role, but
Kevin Dieny:usually they're divided, right?
Kevin Dieny:Geographically, location, or there's multiple tasks that in, in different
Kevin Dieny:areas or something that requires, uh, divided attention so that you can assign
Kevin Dieny:this role to each one and there may be a purpose to having it the way you do.
Kevin Dieny:So think of a role, okay?
Kevin Dieny:So think of an employee, maybe one you have a behavior
Kevin Dieny:you'd like to change, okay?
Kevin Dieny:And then think of their role.
Kevin Dieny:Okay?
Kevin Dieny:What is unique about their.
Kevin Dieny:You know, what's different about that role than any other role you have?
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:And where does it sit in relation to okay, you.
Kevin Dieny:And do they have direct reports to them?
Kevin Dieny:Do they have, uh, horizontal or coworkers, other teams, other people they were,
Kevin Dieny:they work with that are sideways, right?
Kevin Dieny:There's a whole flow through in your company and that's
Kevin Dieny:organizationally how it.
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:The duties is what things they're required to do to be
Kevin Dieny:successful in that role, Right?
Kevin Dieny:So there is success in that role.
Kevin Dieny:Well, what's success look like, right?
Kevin Dieny:If you're thinking of, let's say, um, a secretary, okay.
Kevin Dieny:Let's say, just use an example here.
Kevin Dieny:You're thinking of a secretary, someone who's working in the
Kevin Dieny:office, sort of an adminis.
Kevin Dieny:They have a behavior you'd like to adjust.
Kevin Dieny:, I'm saying that nicely, adjust.
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:Change and this administrator, this secretary assistant, whatever it
Kevin Dieny:is, um, the assistant, the role of the secretary, that's the role.
Kevin Dieny:Right?
Kevin Dieny:And they're unique.
Kevin Dieny:Maybe say they're unique because they facilitate and handle calls,
Kevin Dieny:they schedule and they're, they are responsible for connecting people with.
Kevin Dieny:Other person that maybe they're in charge of, like the connections.
Kevin Dieny:So that's their role, their duties.
Kevin Dieny:What is, what are they responsible for, for success?
Kevin Dieny:Say, Well man, they do a lot of stuff.
Kevin Dieny:You know, for me, I wouldn't, I don't know if I'd say, you know, like printing
Kevin Dieny:or compiling or they decorate the office.
Kevin Dieny:No, no, no.
Kevin Dieny:Think about what is, so what are the, what's the critical primary function of
Kevin Dieny:that responsibility, of that role that helps the company be more successful?
Kevin Dieny:It might be, Whoa, answering the phones is a big deal for them.
Kevin Dieny:, Right.
Kevin Dieny:And supporting and helping my needs so that I'm not so
Kevin Dieny:stretched thin as a secondary.
Kevin Dieny:Okay, so now you got these, uh, those are duties.
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:So you have the person, the role, maybe the duties listed there,
Kevin Dieny:maybe the roles and how they sit.
Kevin Dieny:The last, um, and again, I said function, function and
Kevin Dieny:role are fairly similar there.
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:The last thing is the schedule is.
Kevin Dieny:The capacity of when they're supposed to be fulfilling their role and when
Kevin Dieny:and how they accomplish their duties.
Kevin Dieny:So you might say, well, they're nine to five, six to.
Kevin Dieny:Uh, five or something, six to four, whatever their timeframe is.
Kevin Dieny:That's, that's a part of it.
Kevin Dieny:But also how does that, What happens during the day?
Kevin Dieny:Right.
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:When they get in these things and then they have these things and maybe
Kevin Dieny:they've carved out their own schedule of what they're gonna do, that's fine.
Kevin Dieny:But generally speaking, you as a manager, you need to think
Kevin Dieny:about it as a top level, right?
Kevin Dieny:Higher level.
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:They need to answer phones and support.
Kevin Dieny:Okay, so those two things need to occur during the day.
Kevin Dieny:So you might say, Okay, well the day the slot while they're available
Kevin Dieny:is primarily to answer phones.
Kevin Dieny:And then in between, there might be tasks, secondary things that, you know, that
Kevin Dieny:slot in for helping and supporting me.
Kevin Dieny:Maybe the afternoons are quieter, maybe the mornings are quieter.
Kevin Dieny:I don't know, , maybe the whole thing is just a crazy chaotic mess.
Kevin Dieny:But within.
Kevin Dieny:Within the schedule.
Kevin Dieny:Right.
Kevin Dieny:When do the problematic behavior and you just pick one.
Kevin Dieny:. , right.
Kevin Dieny:You know, I go, Wow.
Kevin Dieny:Just one.
Kevin Dieny:Yes.
Kevin Dieny:Just pick one.
Kevin Dieny:Um, hopefully there's just one.
Kevin Dieny:No pick one Problematic behavior of this example, right, Of
Kevin Dieny:the one you're thinking of.
Kevin Dieny:Pick one problematic behavior you wish was.
Kevin Dieny:I go, Well, gosh, I wish they would do this.
Kevin Dieny:You know, and they do this all the time.
Kevin Dieny:Those are the kind of behaviors you wanna be thinking about.
Kevin Dieny:Frequent, um, problematic issues, behaviors, you know, a one off
Kevin Dieny:thing, like someone yelled.
Kevin Dieny:That's not exactly what we're focusing on.
Kevin Dieny:Focusing on frequently occurring, problematic behavior.
Kevin Dieny:Think of one, think of something that occurs that you would just like to change.
Kevin Dieny:All right.
Kevin Dieny:And from that, right?
Kevin Dieny:Think about, okay, well, during the schedule of a day, so an average day,
Kevin Dieny:when does that problematic behavior occur?
Kevin Dieny:Why?
Kevin Dieny:You know, what's the situation, What's the circumstance?
Kevin Dieny:And that should give you a little bit better idea of what you're dealing with.
Kevin Dieny:Here it's like, okay, well, hmm.
Kevin Dieny:Just from.
Kevin Dieny:Kevin has mentioned so far, if you think about it and you're like,
Kevin Dieny:Well, the problematic behavior comes from something that's not related
Kevin Dieny:directly to their their duty.
Kevin Dieny:Then why are they doing it?
Kevin Dieny:Maybe if they just weren't doing that thing, then I wouldn't have that problem.
Kevin Dieny:I was like, Well, you know, Yeah.
Kevin Dieny:It's not related to the primary, primary duty of answering phones.
Kevin Dieny:It's related more to the second one, which is supporting me.
Kevin Dieny:Right.
Kevin Dieny:So then in that case, how much is it supporting me?
Kevin Dieny:Is it worthwhile?
Kevin Dieny:You know, like if it's so important, it has to happen and, but it's still
Kevin Dieny:the cause or trigger of this behavior, then okay, now we're getting some.
Kevin Dieny:If it's related to someone else, maybe the person answers the phone
Kevin Dieny:rudely, . Maybe there's a, maybe there's an interaction with some of the other
Kevin Dieny:employees that is problematic, right?
Kevin Dieny:Maybe there, there are some confrontational issues there.
Kevin Dieny:Maybe the quality of work is not, not up to the way you would like it.
Kevin Dieny:Maybe the, the way the work is done is different.
Kevin Dieny:It's still good, but different than the way you'd.
Kevin Dieny:I know anything could be anything, could be a behavioral thing
Kevin Dieny:you'd like to change, right?
Kevin Dieny:It's frequent enough.
Kevin Dieny:It's occurring enough and it's important enough to you.
Kevin Dieny:Okay, now we're rolling.
Kevin Dieny:And now you've seen the context of what we're getting to, right?
Kevin Dieny:What are the triggers?
Kevin Dieny:What's causing it?
Kevin Dieny:How important is it?
Kevin Dieny:Is it really related to the person's role?
Kevin Dieny:Right?
Kevin Dieny:All At the end of the day, that employee is there to, in that role, that specific
Kevin Dieny:role, to accomplish their specific duties in the scheduler timeframe that you have.
Kevin Dieny:Right.
Kevin Dieny:That's what they're essentially there for.
Kevin Dieny:That's their primary duty.
Kevin Dieny:Okay?
Kevin Dieny:Things relating to their primary responsibility that
Kevin Dieny:are problematic are very, very important for you to try to change.
Kevin Dieny:Okay?
Kevin Dieny:That's what we want to really, really focus on.
Kevin Dieny:So now ask yourself, Okay, so that's part one or two.
Kevin Dieny:Now of this first.
Kevin Dieny:Ask yourself, are the roles, the duties, the schedule, are
Kevin Dieny:those the way I understand them?
Kevin Dieny:Clear to the employees?
Kevin Dieny:. Okay.
Kevin Dieny:And I'm laughing.
Kevin Dieny:I'm sicking again because, uh, this is very rarely the case.
Kevin Dieny:Maybe not where you are.
Kevin Dieny:That's awesome.
Kevin Dieny:Great.
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:But are the standards, the responsibilities, the duties, the
Kevin Dieny:function, You know, how they sit, their authority, what they're required to do?
Kevin Dieny:Maybe it was explained day one.
Kevin Dieny:Maybe it's five years down the road now, 15 years down the road, whatever
Kevin Dieny:they're doing, is it very clear what you'd like them to accomplish,
Kevin Dieny:How that relates to accomplishing the goals of the company, Right?
Kevin Dieny:How you'd like them to achieve that and how, like what success looks like for
Kevin Dieny:that role, for their duty along the way.
Kevin Dieny:What maybe microsteps are required to achieve that task, that objective?
Kevin Dieny:Are they very clear on it?
Kevin Dieny:The reason that that's problematic is if you're about to try to change a
Kevin Dieny:behavior, but , that employee didn't really realize there was anything wrong.
Kevin Dieny:didn't realize it was causing.
Kevin Dieny:A problem against their primary objective, didn't realize it was
Kevin Dieny:impacting you or the company in some way.
Kevin Dieny:You want to take away the things that they're ignorantly doing.
Kevin Dieny:Let's, let's shelve, let's, let's help them understand.
Kevin Dieny:First off here, the, here's the role, here's the function.
Kevin Dieny:Let's be very clear and concise.
Kevin Dieny:Here's the objective and the goals I have for you.
Kevin Dieny:Here's the culture of the company.
Kevin Dieny:This is where these come from.
Kevin Dieny:This is maybe just what I want you to do.
Kevin Dieny:This is what I expect, right?
Kevin Dieny:Just review.
Kevin Dieny:Just be very clear on when and how all these things are gonna be accomplished.
Kevin Dieny:And from that, that may clear up some behavior of rural issues,
Kevin Dieny:but maybe not all of them, right?
Kevin Dieny:That, that just might be the beginning.
Kevin Dieny:That's, that's why we're kind of getting it off.
Kevin Dieny:So cuz this is part, uh, part two now, okay, you defined everything.
Kevin Dieny:Now you're gonna make sure it's clear and concise for your employees, okay?
Kevin Dieny:The third step now is to go, Okay, now once you've made this concise and clear
Kevin Dieny:to your employees, did you get any.
Kevin Dieny:, Right?
Kevin Dieny:Were there, is there anything going on with the employee that might
Kevin Dieny:be, This could be HR related stuff, personal issues, family issues.
Kevin Dieny:Who knows?
Kevin Dieny:There could be a lot of stuff going on with an employee.
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:And those things can be impacting this person.
Kevin Dieny:Do you have a good understanding of that?
Kevin Dieny:Empathy for that, compassion for that?
Kevin Dieny:Does it still work for you and the company?
Kevin Dieny:Is this, are they in a good place now?
Kevin Dieny:Maybe a bad place now?
Kevin Dieny:Is it short term, long term consequences to this?
Kevin Dieny:You.
Kevin Dieny:Now you're at a place where you've, you can really gather, ask
Kevin Dieny:questions, figure out, Okay, is this a behavior that they're aware of?
Kevin Dieny:Right?
Kevin Dieny:Can't fix something unless you know there's a problem.
Kevin Dieny:is the way aware that there's a way to, to switch this, to change this
Kevin Dieny:alternatives that might be better, different behaviors that could.
Kevin Dieny:You know, promote what you're still trying to do, still
Kevin Dieny:achieve the tasks they're after.
Kevin Dieny:But the behavior's different.
Kevin Dieny:The attitude is different.
Kevin Dieny:You know, attitude and behavior can really make a big difference.
Kevin Dieny:So when you've gathered that feedback, then you, then it's when you go,
Kevin Dieny:this is the overwhelming part, right?
Kevin Dieny:Cause now it's like, okay, I see this employee, I see what they're responsible
Kevin Dieny:for, what they need to accomplish.
Kevin Dieny:They are clear on.
Kevin Dieny:Right.
Kevin Dieny:The behavior that I would like to change, I now have a better understanding of why
Kevin Dieny:they're doing it, what's causing them to do it, why they're doing it that way.
Kevin Dieny:Right.
Kevin Dieny:I can't tell.
Kevin Dieny:It brings to mind like a parenting example here.
Kevin Dieny:How many times I remember folding clothes and being told that's
Kevin Dieny:not the way you fold the clothes . That's not the way you fold the.
Kevin Dieny:How many different ways are there full of short?
Kevin Dieny:Apparently there's a lot and if you've worked, you know, retail clothing, I'm
Kevin Dieny:sure you know the best way, but this is just whatever I could, I just basically
Kevin Dieny:rolled it up and threw it in there,
Kevin Dieny:Um, but I was told no, that will promote wrinkling if I do
Kevin Dieny:it the way I was doing, right.
Kevin Dieny:But I just didn't care about the wrinkles.
Kevin Dieny:So that's why I did what I did, you know, growing up.
Kevin Dieny:I don't care.
Kevin Dieny:So here's, that's an example, right?
Kevin Dieny:Why is the employee doing that?
Kevin Dieny:Well, Kevin was doing it cuz he just didn't care about wrinkles.
Kevin Dieny:Okay, well how can I help my employee care about wrinkles?
Kevin Dieny:Or see that?
Kevin Dieny:Why the wrinkles cause problems, right?
Kevin Dieny:The consequence of a behavior, okay, is very important to understand, for
Kevin Dieny:instance, If the behavior they're causing only impacts you, they
Kevin Dieny:need to understand its impact on.
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:If it's having an impact on your business, meaning the rude to callers,
Kevin Dieny:okay, the rude to coworkers, there's something that's causing other
Kevin Dieny:employees, or you know it's causing a disruption, causing more time wasted.
Kevin Dieny:It's confusing.
Kevin Dieny:They need to have a good understanding of that so that they have all the facts too.
Kevin Dieny:Feedback needs to be given to you, so you understand, Oh, I see why they're doing.
Kevin Dieny:You know, he's folding it and he doesn't care about wrinkles, but how can I help
Kevin Dieny:them understand, okay, here's the problem.
Kevin Dieny:You know, you're gonna look, you're not gonna look as great as you could without,
Kevin Dieny:you know, with a shirt that's just, looks like it was wedged in a suitcase.
Kevin Dieny:You know, , like there's, there's some something there you might
Kevin Dieny:be able to tease out under.
Kevin Dieny:Help them understand around why there it is important.
Kevin Dieny:Why certain things, behaviors have consequences.
Kevin Dieny:What the consequences are.
Kevin Dieny:Natural consequences.
Kevin Dieny:Right?
Kevin Dieny:The results of directly doing it or something more reasonable for you,
Kevin Dieny:like, you know, this still gets it done.
Kevin Dieny:They still achieve the goal and the they fulfill their duty, They
Kevin Dieny:still achieve what they're after.
Kevin Dieny:It helps the company, but it's taking a long time, you know, and if there
Kevin Dieny:was a better way to do this, that save time, then we could get more.
Kevin Dieny:, Right?
Kevin Dieny:So they need to be able to understand that too.
Kevin Dieny:And that exchange is the part that I think is overwhelming.
Kevin Dieny:And I think where management go, Ooh, , you know, I can, I can talk
Kevin Dieny:to my employees, I can address small problems with them, but helping
Kevin Dieny:them through a behavioral change, helping them with, you know, change
Kevin Dieny:management, who that's overwhelming.
Kevin Dieny:Get understanding what's happening there, fine.
Kevin Dieny:But then coming up with a, you know, ways where they can be guided
Kevin Dieny:toward changing that behavior.
Kevin Dieny:Ooh, wow.
Kevin Dieny:Difficult.
Kevin Dieny:Okay, but this is why you really only wanna focus on one . Okay?
Kevin Dieny:And now we get to the meat of this.
Kevin Dieny:Okay?
Kevin Dieny:You have a good understanding of what's going on here.
Kevin Dieny:You have a better understanding, maybe not a perfect understanding.
Kevin Dieny:Okay?
Kevin Dieny:Let's not get that.
Kevin Dieny:That's not, that's not idealized here.
Kevin Dieny:okay?
Kevin Dieny:You have a better understanding of this problem, this behavioral issue.
Kevin Dieny:You wanna.
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:It's just one thing.
Kevin Dieny:You have a better understanding.
Kevin Dieny:You've gotten feedback from it.
Kevin Dieny:You, they are, They understand clearly what's going on.
Kevin Dieny:You understand clearly what's going on.
Kevin Dieny:Okay, So you have this one time meeting.
Kevin Dieny:Great.
Kevin Dieny:Well, it's not gonna be a sustainable behavioral change unless you do
Kevin Dieny:the next thing that I'm gonna recommend, which is praise.
Kevin Dieny:Maybe you're expecting well just pay them to keep changing or motivate them
Kevin Dieny:or slap a, you know, a punishment.
Kevin Dieny:If they don't, No, no, no.
Kevin Dieny:It's none of those things.
Kevin Dieny:And I'm not saying, you know, just tell 'em that their hair looks nice, , or
Kevin Dieny:the quality of the work is sufficient.
Kevin Dieny:I'm talking about being very, very specific with praising the behavior, a
Kevin Dieny:positive, changed behavior as it happens.
Kevin Dieny:Now, this might be a little bit of a self correction.
Kevin Dieny:How much are you praising employees today for what they do?
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:The most common thing that I've heard is, well, I praise them when we'd
Kevin Dieny:have these big wins, when there's something so spectacular happens that,
Kevin Dieny:Wow, I'm just floored and I gotta come out there and I gotta praise them.
Kevin Dieny:But, you know, for doing their job or doing their duty, you
Kevin Dieny:know, for, for handling things the way that they're supposed to,
Kevin Dieny:I don't, I don't say anything.
Kevin Dieny:I think that's wrong.
Kevin Dieny:I think that's incorrect, and I think that is part of what has to
Kevin Dieny:be built in to a changing behavior is look at those duties, those
Kevin Dieny:responsibilities that you wrote down.
Kevin Dieny:Okay?
Kevin Dieny:The things that are critical to your business success, the primary stuff, okay?
Kevin Dieny:Even the secondary stuff can be in there.
Kevin Dieny:Look at those things.
Kevin Dieny:Do you praise those things when they happen?
Kevin Dieny:I go, Well, that happens all the.
Kevin Dieny:You know, they take 40 calls a day, so I'm, am I gonna praise after every call?
Kevin Dieny:It's like, okay, well figure this out in like a reasonable way, Okay.
Kevin Dieny:For walking into your office every time to say, Good job handling a call.
Kevin Dieny:Good job handling a call.
Kevin Dieny:Wow, you did a really good job handling that call.
Kevin Dieny:No, no, no.
Kevin Dieny:That's talk about is the opportunities to praise are everywhere.
Kevin Dieny:There's 40 calls happening, right?
Kevin Dieny:There's a lot of opportunities to praise.
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:There's also some things you'd like to be changed.
Kevin Dieny:There's also growth and improvement that could happen.
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:So anytime you want to have like a serious conversation or help them or, or
Kevin Dieny:maybe nudge them in the right direction.
Kevin Dieny:Let's say you're, let's say that there's like a, uh, It's a good way
Kevin Dieny:to describe this, like a piggy bank.
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:And every time you're like, You know what, here's things that they could
Kevin Dieny:do and improve and help and change.
Kevin Dieny:Think about those things, right?
Kevin Dieny:Like every month or so, two months, there's something that the
Kevin Dieny:employee could do to be better, that would help them, okay?
Kevin Dieny:When you address those things you're taking out of this
Kevin Dieny:piggy bank, any money that's.
Kevin Dieny:Okay, you're withdrawing as much as you possibly can because
Kevin Dieny:it sort of credit against what you're about to ask them to do.
Kevin Dieny:, you're basically saying, You know, I'm gonna really need you
Kevin Dieny:to do something different, or you know, if this thing needs to be
Kevin Dieny:addressed, we need this to happen.
Kevin Dieny:Those are withdrawals.
Kevin Dieny:Now, to make sure you're not bankrupting yourself in this relationship and this
Kevin Dieny:management you have over the employees, you have to put stuff in there so
Kevin Dieny:that you can pull something out.
Kevin Dieny:And what you put in is praise.
Kevin Dieny:An employee does something different than they did that moves them
Kevin Dieny:forward in a prog in a progression.
Kevin Dieny:Maybe they fulfills the duty, the role, the responsibility.
Kevin Dieny:There's a task that they achieved.
Kevin Dieny:Something that's done in a, in a great way, right?
Kevin Dieny:Think about it specifically.
Kevin Dieny:What did they do?
Kevin Dieny:How did they do it?
Kevin Dieny:What did you like about it?
Kevin Dieny:What was so great about it?
Kevin Dieny:That boom is a praise, and you do that often.
Kevin Dieny:I'm not looking at management like all you're gonna do is praise
Kevin Dieny:all day, every day when you have like 10 employees, no , right?
Kevin Dieny:You pick and choose your battles, but you need to make sure that you know
Kevin Dieny:the frequency that you're gonna ask them to change, to improve, to grow, to
Kevin Dieny:reach a higher level than they're at.
Kevin Dieny:You know, to do more, to take on more.
Kevin Dieny:How, Think about that, like where you want them to go and where
Kevin Dieny:they're at today to get there.
Kevin Dieny:You know, there's certain steps they have to take.
Kevin Dieny:Okay, what are those steps?
Kevin Dieny:Are you tracking that?
Kevin Dieny:That's what you know, you wanna help your employees get there and so you
Kevin Dieny:have to be putting stuff in to the piggy bank of, uh, praise to make sure
Kevin Dieny:that you're encouraging them along the.
Kevin Dieny:You're helping them see, yeah, I am doing this, I do like this.
Kevin Dieny:Or, Wow, this does feel good.
Kevin Dieny:Or, Hey, he, he pays attention, he notices.
Kevin Dieny:You know, that has to be part of the culture of your, of the business
Kevin Dieny:to be able to foster change.
Kevin Dieny:Okay, So again, let's ground ourselves here.
Kevin Dieny:What's required to foster changing employee.
Kevin Dieny:A culture, a culture of praise, a culture of acknowledging success,
Kevin Dieny:acknowledging problems, being able to come together and figure out
Kevin Dieny:ideas for changing things, right?
Kevin Dieny:Getting feedback, a feedback culture.
Kevin Dieny:All of that is involved and all of that needs to be sort of culturally
Kevin Dieny:on level for the business as well.
Kevin Dieny:Maybe for you as a manager, for you, for the business, if you're an owner.
Kevin Dieny:Okay?
Kevin Dieny:All of this is important.
Kevin Dieny:So where do you start?
Kevin Dieny:Right.
Kevin Dieny:Again, pick an employee behavior, maybe the most problematic employee
Kevin Dieny:with the most problematic behavior.
Kevin Dieny:. Pick something.
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:Figure out, define the.
Kevin Dieny:Duties, the roles, responsibilities, what they're doing, what's what's required.
Kevin Dieny:Make sure you have a better understanding of what's triggering
Kevin Dieny:and causing that problem to occur.
Kevin Dieny:Have some empathy.
Kevin Dieny:Talk to them, get feedback.
Kevin Dieny:Figure out how you could address this together.
Kevin Dieny:Figure out if the, how well they understand the problem, right?
Kevin Dieny:And then, okay, come up with a plan of how you, how you're gonna move forward.
Kevin Dieny:Now, I think I've been told that this take, this can take like a month that.
Kevin Dieny:You can get, boom, you can knock out a change.
Kevin Dieny:I feel it's closer to like six to six weeks plus.
Kevin Dieny:I don't think it takes that long.
Kevin Dieny:I think you might, you might be surprised right now, going six weeks.
Kevin Dieny:, I've been telling them for years they're not gonna change.
Kevin Dieny:Uh, no.
Kevin Dieny:Let's be very clear.
Kevin Dieny:You could knock this out probably in four weeks.
Kevin Dieny:. Well, let's stick to six weeks.
Kevin Dieny:Okay?
Kevin Dieny:Um, you go through the step, Okay?
Kevin Dieny:So day one, identify these things, write them down, have that meeting with your
Kevin Dieny:employee address and talk about what needs to happen, what needs to change.
Kevin Dieny:And I'm thinking of this as a manager to their employee, so, right, So a
Kevin Dieny:manager talking to an employee when the employee's got a behavior that needs.
Kevin Dieny:Adjustment.
Kevin Dieny:Again, using that special phrasing there, the changing of an employee behavior for
Kevin Dieny:the better, right For them, better for the company, better for you better, right?
Kevin Dieny:Win, win, win.
Kevin Dieny:So those are the types of things you're gonna pick.
Kevin Dieny:That one, you're gonna just try to understand it better, get to the bottom
Kevin Dieny:of it, help them understand what's going on from your point of view, really
Kevin Dieny:try to understand their point of view.
Kevin Dieny:And then it's like, okay, here's the plan.
Kevin Dieny:You might say, Well, what ideas do you.
Kevin Dieny:For fixing this, solving this, addressing this.
Kevin Dieny:And the employee might go, Well, wow, they're valuing my opinion.
Kevin Dieny:You know?
Kevin Dieny:That's, that's really great.
Kevin Dieny:That's so interesting.
Kevin Dieny:They wanna know what I think.
Kevin Dieny:Um, maybe I'm new to the job, I just need more time, you know,
Kevin Dieny:Maybe, So I'm pushing myself.
Kevin Dieny:There's a lot going on at home.
Kevin Dieny:There's a lot you could learn from getting feedback, having a one on one, and I'd
Kevin Dieny:really suggest one on one for this.
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:And.
Kevin Dieny:You can go from, Man, this problem bugs me to, Wow, we're on the same team now.
Kevin Dieny:We're both fighting for this thing to change for this, gosh, for this problem,
Kevin Dieny:behavior to go away and it fills you.
Kevin Dieny:And then with optimism, I have been surprised by this process
Kevin Dieny:how much, sometimes you bring up something, you start talking about
Kevin Dieny:it, you get in and they're like, This has been really impacting.
Kevin Dieny:This has been hurting them.
Kevin Dieny:Not just you, but maybe way more.
Kevin Dieny:This has been way more of a problem for them than it is for you.
Kevin Dieny:And so now you're just lifting off all this weight.
Kevin Dieny:Gosh, how good that feels.
Kevin Dieny:Right?
Kevin Dieny:Now let's look at some alternative ways that you can change employee
Kevin Dieny:behavior and why they're problematic.
Kevin Dieny:Okay?
Kevin Dieny:This is the ways you don't go . I would suggest you not.
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:Um, sure you can motivate people with money.
Kevin Dieny:You can motivate people with time off, with vacations, with flashier equipment
Kevin Dieny:tools, a truck, uh, their own, their own.
Kevin Dieny:Territory customer list.
Kevin Dieny:Um, gosh, I think it sky's the limit, right?
Kevin Dieny:You could do those things that are very much aligned with the
Kevin Dieny:growth of the company, but are they gonna help the employee achieves?
Kevin Dieny:Like, are, are you really setting up the employee for success
Kevin Dieny:outside of just what their.
Kevin Dieny:Responsibilities are like, how are you gonna help them achieve those?
Kevin Dieny:And if there's problematic behaviors in a small area, it's probably gonna be
Kevin Dieny:greater when you scale up things for them.
Kevin Dieny:So you kind of wanna address everything as quick and as fast as you can, nip it and
Kevin Dieny:then have it, you know, nip it as fast you can so that these things are addressed.
Kevin Dieny:It is not so confrontational as it sounds.
Kevin Dieny:But, and while those things are motivators, strong motivators, Hey, if you
Kevin Dieny:do, you know, if you change this, then you know, I'll give you an extra day off every
Kevin Dieny:quarter for every month or something.
Kevin Dieny:Or let you leave early on Fridays.
Kevin Dieny:That that could be a really, that could be amazing motivator, but there's still
Kevin Dieny:the behavior that's not addressed.
Kevin Dieny:Right.
Kevin Dieny:Why are they doing it that way?
Kevin Dieny:Why it's important, why they wouldn't, Like, why can't you just
Kevin Dieny:say, Hey, this thing is a problem.
Kevin Dieny:Can we fix this?
Kevin Dieny:And they go, Yes.
Kevin Dieny:Oh, I'd love to fix that.
Kevin Dieny:Doom.
Kevin Dieny:Boom, it's done.
Kevin Dieny:Right?
Kevin Dieny:What's keeping you from just getting to there?
Kevin Dieny:And the, And those are the things that I think you need to work on with
Kevin Dieny:praise, with the proper understanding through feedback of what's going on.
Kevin Dieny:And that way you can address the true cause and problem at the source.
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:Now, what does praise sound like?
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:When you're say, Hey, do this thing, you get money, do this thing.
Kevin Dieny:Right?
Kevin Dieny:It's sort of a transactional thing.
Kevin Dieny:It's coming from you.
Kevin Dieny:It's not their idea.
Kevin Dieny:Okay?
Kevin Dieny:Praise sounds like, Hey, this thing that you are struggling with,
Kevin Dieny:you're really doing well at this.
Kevin Dieny:Like you've made improvements.
Kevin Dieny:Wow, look at this.
Kevin Dieny:This is where things are.
Kevin Dieny:This is where they are.
Kevin Dieny:Like, Yeah, this.
Kevin Dieny:These are areas where like, it's tough, but look what improvement you've had here.
Kevin Dieny:Like this is really good.
Kevin Dieny:Um, it's specific, it's concise.
Kevin Dieny:It needs to be done as soon as possible.
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:So, I don't wanna say plug, but basically we have a service where
Kevin Dieny:we listen to phone calls, okay?
Kevin Dieny:And we grade the employees, we grade the call handlers.
Kevin Dieny:So you can see how you're doing on the calls.
Kevin Dieny:Now, what's really valuable, okay?
Kevin Dieny:What could be a really valuable takeaway here, You get an employee,
Kevin Dieny:they handle a bunch of calls in the day.
Kevin Dieny:You, at the end of the, near the end of the day before that employee leaves, can
Kevin Dieny:you look over a few and see some that were, that where they scored really?
Kevin Dieny:You know, and you go, Wow, look at this.
Kevin Dieny:Like they've made improvements in these areas.
Kevin Dieny:Maybe in the greeting, maybe at this part of the call, maybe in the ask
Kevin Dieny:part of the call, and then you can walk over and say, These calls, you
Kevin Dieny:did this, You followed up really well.
Kevin Dieny:This is really great.
Kevin Dieny:I like the direction things are going really well, like
Kevin Dieny:you're doing a great job.
Kevin Dieny:Right.
Kevin Dieny:This could be at the end of the week.
Kevin Dieny:You know, something specific you want them to improve in this example
Kevin Dieny:would be their appointment setting skills or call handling skill.
Kevin Dieny:But that's where you want to address it quick, right?
Kevin Dieny:You want to be able to talk to them at the PO near the point where the thing that
Kevin Dieny:they're trying to change has happened.
Kevin Dieny:If it is.
Kevin Dieny:Let's say it's, you know, being rude on the phone and you're sitting next
Kevin Dieny:to 'em and you go, I'll just sit with you for a little while, and you hear
Kevin Dieny:them take the call and you go, Wow, that was a great way you answered that.
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:, right.
Kevin Dieny:When they have done it is a great time to emphasize praise.
Kevin Dieny:Okay?
Kevin Dieny:If you say, Hey, that thing you did five years ago, that was so good, , you
Kevin Dieny:can see how that's problematic, right?
Kevin Dieny:It's like, well, I don't remember why I did that, or, Well, I,
Kevin Dieny:that's a long time people.
Kevin Dieny:Really gonna be best to influence right in real time or right around the
Kevin Dieny:time where they've done whatever it is that you want them to do better.
Kevin Dieny:Okay?
Kevin Dieny:And anything they've done better is pray is worthy in that problematic direction.
Kevin Dieny:Okay?
Kevin Dieny:So, It's like, man, this person always leaves their food in the fridge.
Kevin Dieny:That's the thing I want to change, you know?
Kevin Dieny:And then come, you know, at the end of Friday when they're leaving
Kevin Dieny:and you see their food's on, there you go, Hey, look at that.
Kevin Dieny:Your food's on in here.
Kevin Dieny:Thank you so much.
Kevin Dieny:Like I know that it's hard to remember and you're busy on Friday,
Kevin Dieny:but I really appreciate that.
Kevin Dieny:I might be banging right there.
Kevin Dieny:as a praise sounds like.
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:And.
Kevin Dieny:What's so great about that is it's like, wow, someone's,
Kevin Dieny:Someone's paying attention.
Kevin Dieny:Okay?
Kevin Dieny:. Someone's really focused on helping me, and that makes a big difference.
Kevin Dieny:That'll help employees.
Kevin Dieny:Encourage them to have sustainable changes, right?
Kevin Dieny:Because that was the third point.
Kevin Dieny:Hey, you can change behavior in employees, but none of it's gonna stick around.
Kevin Dieny:Okay?
Kevin Dieny:Having the culture and praise continually turns behaviors into habits, turns
Kevin Dieny:everyday tasks into purpose, right?
Kevin Dieny:Helps people identify, this is why I'm doing this, Reminds them, keeps the thing
Kevin Dieny:going until it's second nature, right?
Kevin Dieny:Praise is so functionally valuable.
Kevin Dieny:It sounds like a gimmicky.
Kevin Dieny:Maybe to you.
Kevin Dieny:It did to me when I was first starting about it.
Kevin Dieny:Praise.
Kevin Dieny:You know, I don't do, I work off praise.
Kevin Dieny:Everyone essentially needs guidance and direction and reminders, feedback on how
Kevin Dieny:things are going, and they're going in the right direction that things are going
Kevin Dieny:well, and that is what praise gives.
Kevin Dieny:Now, the last time, let's say, think of the last time you praised your.
Kevin Dieny:Praise the specific employee.
Kevin Dieny:Praise the employee that you're thinking of.
Kevin Dieny:That's problematic.
Kevin Dieny:Alright, let's go there.
Kevin Dieny:When was the last time I go?
Kevin Dieny:Well, I do it all the time.
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:Well, again, if we're focusing on changing one specific type of behavior, let's
Kevin Dieny:really focus on praising those things that an employee does along that, that
Kevin Dieny:line of that change, and that might require you to be a little more hands.
Kevin Dieny:Okay, , do I have to sit with them when they answer phones?
Kevin Dieny:Do I have to, you know, pick out the colored paper that I want?
Kevin Dieny:Cuz they always use blue and I don't like that.
Kevin Dieny:Yes, you may need to be a little more hands on.
Kevin Dieny:In the short term, right?
Kevin Dieny:Help them understand, get the right feedback, have that discussion so that
Kevin Dieny:in the long term you're not having that problem continually repeat, okay?
Kevin Dieny:You are upfront, frontloading your issue so that in solving it and helping
Kevin Dieny:and arming your employees with the tools they need to be successful,
Kevin Dieny:so long term, you can go back to focusing on the bigger picture.
Kevin Dieny:That's what this whole thing is about.
Kevin Dieny:Reacting to, let's say, Okay, things are going well, and then they reverse and
Kevin Dieny:they explode, or there's a behavior that's so bad, okay, I'm not, I don't think.
Kevin Dieny:You might have a totally different culture than this.
Kevin Dieny:I don't think it fosters change to belittle, discourage to break
Kevin Dieny:point out people's failings.
Kevin Dieny:Like the, you want to be honest, you wanna have a good one on one
Kevin Dieny:discussion about what's occurred.
Kevin Dieny:You want it to be very clear, but have it be a learning experience.
Kevin Dieny:You don't want it to be a debilitating experience.
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:Um, that's a totally different way of thinking.
Kevin Dieny:Totally different way of motivating.
Kevin Dieny:I'm not, That train.
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:I think that's going in the wrong direction personally, because I think
Kevin Dieny:how you react, how you model the things that you want to do, that you
Kevin Dieny:want in your business go a long way.
Kevin Dieny:I think same thing occurs in parenting.
Kevin Dieny:The same thing occurs in relationships with other people is you want
Kevin Dieny:there to be respect and even though someone may be, you know, Roles
Kevin Dieny:deep beneath you from where you are.
Kevin Dieny:There still should be some respect and understanding there of what's going on.
Kevin Dieny:If you wanna address a behavioral change, um, this is the guidance you
Kevin Dieny:can give managers beneath you and how you can even model it with them, right?
Kevin Dieny:Teach a manager how to fish and how they're fishing with their employees and
Kevin Dieny:then their, those employees aren't right.
Kevin Dieny:It passes on.
Kevin Dieny:So, you know, some simple questions.
Kevin Dieny:Do you have a clear understanding of the behavior that you wanna change?
Kevin Dieny:Could you get that?
Kevin Dieny:Do you have an understanding of your behaviors, , maybe you
Kevin Dieny:problematic behaviors that, uh, your employees see that would help them?
Kevin Dieny:Okay.
Kevin Dieny:That's interesting, right?
Kevin Dieny:Have you tried to kind of walk around in the shoes of your employees?
Kevin Dieny:That's the empathy part.
Kevin Dieny:And finally, how can you get more, How can you include praise, get more
Kevin Dieny:praise into your everyday business?
Kevin Dieny:Uh, It's harder with a lot of direct reports.
Kevin Dieny:It's harder when you don't see our direct reports that often, right?
Kevin Dieny:When you're not involved in the behavior that you need to change,
Kevin Dieny:when there's, when you don't have the tools to understand how well
Kevin Dieny:they're doing, uh, or the ability to change something that is problematic.
Kevin Dieny:There are certain things you can't change.
Kevin Dieny:There might be situational things or environmental things, or just the way
Kevin Dieny:things are done that are not able to be changed, and that's where hiring for
Kevin Dieny:the right role, making sure that it's very concisely understood the duties,
Kevin Dieny:what's required for success, what every day might look like for someone, is
Kevin Dieny:helpful to have clear up front, right, that you're, you're really helping
Kevin Dieny:yourself in the long run by doing that.
Kevin Dieny:Reacting to when people make mistakes is first to, you know,
Kevin Dieny:try to try to calm it down.
Kevin Dieny:Let the situation be not so emotionally charged, and then you can address
Kevin Dieny:the problem in a logical way.
Kevin Dieny:Some of the problems clear up, you know, by themselves, essentially, you know,
Kevin Dieny:like someone does something the wrong way.
Kevin Dieny:They sort of.
Kevin Dieny:Hopefully we'll meet the consequences of that that aren't
Kevin Dieny:too harsh and bad, but things that really matter to your business.
Kevin Dieny:Those are things you really should figure out a good way to address them.
Kevin Dieny:If you need support and resources, I'm sure there's a lot of
Kevin Dieny:HR related stuff out there,
Kevin Dieny:There might even be some management.
Kevin Dieny:Um, resources, videos, guides, tools.
Kevin Dieny:But I think a really great way if you're really interested in figuring out a
Kevin Dieny:problem, is to talk to a mentor or someone else who, maybe someone who's a little
Kevin Dieny:more experienced, someone who has, who you trust has very quality management skills,
Kevin Dieny:who has shown that they have a good repeatable way to help employees change.
Kevin Dieny:You know, if you know half the management population of the world is divided
Kevin Dieny:on this, try to find someone from the belief area that they know that this,
Kevin Dieny:this happens, and they have maybe some examples of them doing this.
Kevin Dieny:And I think that's a great resource for you.
Kevin Dieny:So that's it.
Kevin Dieny:That's it for the episode.
Kevin Dieny:I hope.
Kevin Dieny:Uh, We took a serious look at this topic.
Kevin Dieny:We didn't get too deep into some of the specific problematic
Kevin Dieny:behaviors because some of them, there's just too many, right?
Kevin Dieny:And there's a lot going on here, but I think you can grow your business
Kevin Dieny:if you change employee behavior.
Kevin Dieny:If you model that yourself and if you figure out a way to praise your
Kevin Dieny:employees, to encourage them to change so that it's sustainable.
Kevin Dieny:And I think you can do it.
Kevin Dieny:I know you can do it.
Kevin Dieny:And thank you for listening.
Kevin Dieny:That's it for today.
Kevin Dieny:I hope you are encouraged to go, develop some employees into better employees.
