Shownotes
- Long-Term Wealth Through Real Estate: Meredith emphasizes that real estate is not a “get rich quick” endeavor but rather a slow, steady path to building family and generational wealth, requiring patience, liquidity, and a focus on long-term holds.
- The Value of Owner-Occupied Properties: We discuss how owner-occupants place higher value on their spaces, often investing more into the property—making these transactions particularly beneficial for both the buyer and the asset itself.
- Courage in Career Transitions: Meredith’s leap from secure government work to the uncertainty of private development and brokerage highlights the importance of preparation (financial and emotional), calculated risk-taking, and capitalizing on opportunity.
- The Power of Mentorship and Networks: Throughout her journey, mentors and professional networks provided Meredith with opportunities, support, and knowledge—demonstrating the necessity of seeking out guidance even (and especially) as you advance in your career.
- Purpose-Driven Development: Meredith’s vision for “when I grow up” is centered around creating and redeveloping properties that serve community needs—like transforming a dilapidated dentist office into a thriving therapist center—underscoring how wealth-building and positive impact can go hand in hand.
Transcripts
Welcome to Don't Retire Graduate, the podcast that asks you what you want to be when you grow up so you can graduate into retirement with purpose and with passion. I'm your host and valedictorian, Eric Brotman, and we're nearing the end of season six. We're bringing you interviews with amazing guests every other Thursday, and on alternating weeks, we're hosting a segment called Diary of a Financial Advisor, which we know you'll all enjoy. So please subscribe and check out our all new episodes every Thursday. Today, I'm pleased to be joined by Meredith Mears. Meredith serves as co chair of the SVN National Self Storage Product Council and a Senior advisor for SVN Miller Commercial Real Estate, focusing on the sale and leasing of industrial and office assets and specializing in the purchase and sale of self storage facilities. She's worked with a client base that includes equity fund operators, real estate investment trusts, private owners, and investors across the globe. Meredith, welcome to Don't Retire Graduate.
Meredith Mears [:Thank you, Eric. It's great to be here.
Eric Brotman [:You know, I know you as Mary more than Meredith. I hope it's okay if I call you that, because my wife's name is Meredith, and when I say Meredith now, I'm thinking about something completely different and I want to stay lasered in on our conversation. Is that all right?
Meredith Mears [:Absolutely, yes. Call me Mary. Absolutely.
Eric Brotman [:All right, I shall. I shall. Thank you for that. And I'd be remiss in starting the show if I didn't acknowledge that your. Your office renovations that include that incredible wallpaper behind you are not what we expected this morning. But I think. I think everyone's looking at it anyway, so we just thought we'd throw that out there. We.
Meredith Mears [:Yeah, we can't not. We can't not address it. You know, typically, this is my home office. I have had some office renovations this year. I needed to shake it up a little bit. And typically I have a screen behind me, but I don't this morning. And I'm, you know, I'm happy to debut this on your podcast. So everybody.
Eric Brotman [:I mean, there's birds and there's other animals, and I don't want to digress completely, but I am staring at your wallpaper. So. Very cool. Mary, why don't we start with a little bit about you and a little bit about your story, sort of professionally, and then we'll dive into some personal stuff, too.
Meredith Mears [:Great. Yeah. So just in the theme of the wallpaper, you know, it's been a jungle.
Meredith Mears [:I grew up on the Virginia's Eastern Shore. Right. So That's a very rural area on the coast of Virginia. Not a ton of people, not a ton of opportunity. And I always knew as a little girl that I was probably not going to be there as an adult. And as I grew up, I really got interested in business and finance and the economy and, and real estate. Kind of in the back of my mind, I didn't talk about that a lot with people because I didn't have anyone to talk to about it. I had no real role models for it.
Meredith Mears [:But I ended up going to school at Salisbury University on Maryland's Eastern Shore, moving to Maryland's Eastern Shore, starting my family. I came out of college, got into workforce development and economic development on the public sector side. Always wanted to get into, you know, real estate and commercial development. And I finally had that opportunity to really dive in back in 2018 and have been on a roll ever since. So have been having a lot of fun and it is a true jungle out there, but in the very best way.
Eric Brotman [:So there's lots of different paths to building personal wealth, family wealth, community wealth. Real estate's certainly one of them. And it's something we've talked about on this show over the years. Some people want to dabble, which I usually poo poo a little bit because dabbling in anything is a little scary. Some people want that to be their, their first, their first passion, which I think if for people want to make a living doing that, it makes a ton of sense. But, but when you start talking about wealth.
Eric Brotman [:You can't, you can't not talk about liquidity versus illiquidity. And with real estate, any purchase of real estate, I would think barring the conversation about the house flippers in 06 and 07, which is an era we can, I think, forget. But generally it's a very long term investment. It's bricks and mortar, literally. It's a long term hold. And you're doing, a lot of times you're doing this for income as opposed to, but sometimes in addition to appreciation. So can you talk a little bit about how real estate plays a role in generating wealth for families and for investors and for others?
Meredith Mears [:Yeah. So if there's one thing that I have learned, real estate is a, is a long term hold. There's a saying that says, you know, you, you, you.
Meredith Mears [:What is the saying now? I've, now I'm losing it. You'll have to edit this out.
Eric Brotman [:Or maybe not. Maybe we'll leave it in.
Meredith Mears [:Or maybe not. Yeah, it's you get rich or you die. Trying. Right. And so that's the saying, but it's a long term role that I think.
Eric Brotman [:That'S, I think that's a 50 cent album, actually.
Meredith Mears [:I think you're right.
Eric Brotman [:So I didn't know you listen to.
Meredith Mears [:My friend 50 Cent.
Eric Brotman [:Well, listen, listen, I don't, I'm just, you know, a plethora of, of, of trivia.
Meredith Mears [:I love it.
Eric Brotman [:That is in fact, Get Rich or Die trying.
Meredith Mears [:I love that guy.
Eric Brotman [:All right, let's, let's focus. Get Rich or Die trying, not the 50 Cent album, but in fact the saying regarding wealth building.
Meredith Mears [:Let's go there and how slow and how slow it happens. That's, that's the point. Right? So, you know, if you are, if you are able to be liquid enough to purchase a commercial property and successful enough in your endeavor to do it over time, you build wealth. That's the story. That's the secret to real estate. You know, coming into real estate, buying something at a really low cost, flipping it and selling it. That has worked for some people over time, but in my experience, you buy, you hold, unless you have an offer you cannot refuse to sell. And that has happened to me once, and so it made sense to sell and I rolled it into something else.
Eric Brotman [:But can you say an offer you can't refuse in the tone of the Godfather?
Eric Brotman [:Can you do that for me just, just once?
Meredith Mears [:It was an offer you can't refuse.
Eric Brotman [:Very well done. Very well done. So, so for real estate investors, most of the time what you're looking for is you're looking to increase.
Eric Brotman [:Cap rates, you're looking to increase income over time. You're looking to have the property hopefully fully rented and occupied and have rent escalations in your, in your tenant clauses and hopefully longer term tenants rather than shorter term ones. So you don't have to spend the time not only identifying new tenants, but revenue reconfiguring the space and doing tenant improvements.
Eric Brotman [:What is, what is for a landlord? Because I am not a landlord, I do not own this building. Certainly sound like one, but I'm not a landlord. I just, I just have to negotiate with some of them and certainly we represent some. But having leased real estate space many, many times, you know, I sort of know that the, the, the levers to pull as a tenant a lot of times are the longer term the lease is, the more give back the landlord is prepared to give because the turnover is what's expensive. Right?
Meredith Mears [:Yep. Yeah. I was just having a conversation with a client that was looking for a lease space this morning. It's a school.
Meredith Mears [:Who actually provides autism services. And they, you know, they're a strong, strong tenant, right? And they were looking at a space and they were saying, well, you know, we're not sure if, if, if we want to lease a space for 10 years versus three years. And I had the conversation with them, you know, if you're bringing a long term lease, that the more incentive it is for the landlord to go ahead and, and work with you on lease rate and build out and lease structure and, and all those, those types of things. But on the flip side, as a landlord, you know, I've been in the position to be able to purchase a building and build out the space for a tenant and really work hand in hand to ensure that both of us are, you know, in a good way at the end of the day. So you know, there's always, always, always gray area in commercial real estate and that's part of why I love it there. There are so many different levers you can work to make a deal come, come through.
Eric Brotman [:So we just renegotiated our lease here in this space. BFG is going to be in this here in Lutherville. We love it and we extended it such that it's now a 10 year lease. And in exchange for that, that's why we're under construction right now. So I was joking that the office today is being painted. So if I get lightheaded in the middle of our interview, obviously let me know. And I thought the wallpaper was my imagination actually. But we were able to get a phenomenal, phenomenal deal on the improvements by doing a long term lease at the same time.
Eric Brotman [:We've just leased additional space elsewhere and I can't disclose any of the details yet because it's not public yet, but it's a three year lease and the landlord almost wanted nothing to do with us. It was extremely difficult to get a three year deal even though we weren't asking for material improvements. It just means they're going to be right back into the throes of this again. We even had to negotiate to get a right of renewal for an additional three years, which they weren't sure they wanted to give us, which I thought was at least a layup. But.
Eric Brotman [:You know, when you're a small tenant or when you're a short term tenant, you really don't have a lot of, a lot of options. So for, for, for landlords, they want that long term and if you're going to own a building, you want a long term tenant because there that Gives you some cash flow certainty. It allows you to refinance if there's a mortgage on the building and all those kinds of things. So let me ask this, how do you feel? And I don't mean to put you on the spot, but I'm not afraid to it my show, I get to do that. How do you feel about owner occupied real estate?
Meredith Mears [:Oh, I think it's great.
Eric Brotman [:Do you?
Meredith Mears [:Yeah, absolutely. I think that. Well, part of the reason I think it's great is because if, if I'm a broker in that situation and an owner occupant is looking to purchase a building, they value that building more so than maybe an investor does.
Meredith Mears [:And so their purchase price is going to be higher and here's why. They are going to occupy that space and build it out and it's going to be their home. They intrinsically put a higher value on the building. An investor is going to come in and try to get it for as cheap as they can. They're going to come in rightfully so, and say, you know, look, there's deferred maintenance. I got to put XYZ in this so that I can't pay this, this amount of money for it. But for the occupier, you know, it, it's more valuable of a transaction. They come in, they take, they put more into it, I would say, and that, that's helpful to the, to the real estate asset in general.
Eric Brotman [:So I, I want to pivot completely because at the end of the day, not everybody's in the market for commercial real estate. And you could say the same kind of things about personal real estate. That owner occupied is going to take better care than someone who's, who's leasing a, a town home or a condo or something to a tenant. But I want to talk about you growing up on the Eastern Shore and your early memories of money. What are the. What did you, did you learn valuable lessons? Was it something your family talked about? Did you just, did you just sort of watch and learn? What did that look like for you?
Meredith Mears [:That's a bit of a Pandora's box, but I can summarize it by saying, um, there were no discussions about money and there wasn't a heck of a lot of it. Um, and in addition to that.
Meredith Mears [:My grandmother and her brother had a big hand in raising me. And guess what? They were immigrants from Germany, from back in the World War II days. So they had just lived through the Depression. And so they had some habits and some ideas about preservation of things, stockpiling items you know, and. And, you know, so, you know, that was kind of how I grew up. And I remember thinking, okay, when I. When I grow up, I've got to get myself a good government job. I've got to have a job that pays me benefits, health benefits, and I don't care if I make less, because if the job pays my health benefits, that.
Meredith Mears [:That's a good trade off. And so that was really programmed into my head. My mom worked for the federal government for many, many years. My grandmother was a bookkeeper. My great uncle, who was kind of like a father to me, was a father to me, was a civil engineer. And so he worked for the union. And so it was a very protected mindset with regard to how you go about making money. And I remember feeling like, yeah, I grew up, I went to college, I got the government job, I did the.
Meredith Mears [:Did all those things. And one day I just kind of stood there and I'm like, but there's more. There's so much more. And how do I get there? How do I get there? And I had no role models that had done it to help me.
Eric Brotman [:So, Mary, did you find that there were opportunities at Salisbury to sort of broaden some of your financial vision, or did you have mentors or folks you could learn from about what was out there?
Meredith Mears [:Yeah, you know, back in those days, I was still looking for that government job. Right. So. But I worked for. I interned for a university office called the Business, Economic and Community Outreach Network, who was headed up by my first and true mentor I still have today, Dr. Memo Dereker. And he actually was very instrumental, whether he knows it or not, and exposing me to a wide variety of people in the community that I met. And it really opened the door for me to.
Meredith Mears [:Go into different positions here in the nonprofit sector, in the public sector. But it also exposed me to those folks in the private sector that were doing commercial real estate deals or building new buildings or doing all those things that in the back of my mind, I got really, really excited about, but had no one to talk about. So the short answer is yes. Working there through Salisbury University, because it was an office of Salisbury University, put me in the rooms with people who were doing deals in commercial real estate and providing commercial development services to others. And I got to see a lot of growth in the community as a result of that.
Eric Brotman [:Well, first of all, I did not know you were part of Beacon. Very familiar with Beacon, and Memo's a dear friend. And, you know, in fact, I don't want you to date yourself that would be unfair. But Beacons been around for like 30 years, right?
Meredith Mears [:It's not.
Eric Brotman [:Not older than that.
Meredith Mears [:I'm telling you, I'll date myself. That was in from 99 to 01. I graduated in 01.
Eric Brotman [:Got it. Okay. So from 99 to 01, you were there. Do you know that when Beacon developed their. I, I think it was their Bright Beacon Award or some kind of award for the community that I believe I was the first one to receive that and got to speak to the. The folks at Salisbury. And I have on my shelf the le. It was called Leading Beacon, the Leading Beacon Award.
Eric Brotman [:And I still treasure that because it was such a fond memory. I got to speak to the. The dean and all the folks at Salisbury. And Memo was very, very kind. And we got to know each other pretty well. And then he was also the person I named as vice chair when I was chairman of Leadership Maryland. So, you know, this town is so, so Kevin Bacon. We all do, in fact, know each other so well.
Eric Brotman [:I love that you had that. I love that you had that exposure. Because one thing Beacon does do is it does bring the business community, particularly within the radius of Salisbury and the state. It does bring it to student interns and other young people who can really do incredible analysis and create incredible reporting. So kudos to you for taking that gig. That's a good job in college. A really good job in college.
Meredith Mears [:It was great and so educational and so beneficial long term. And congratulations to you for receiving that award. That's pretty incredible.
Eric Brotman [:Well, it was a complete surprise, but someday we'll talk about that. I'll share my story with you.
Eric Brotman [:So then you, then you leave. You leave university.
Eric Brotman [:Did you go the government route first? That was your first? You were in. In economic development for the state?
Meredith Mears [:Yep. Well, so I left and I went into workforce development. I detested that. Workforce development's great. Workforce development. You take public funds and you design programs and monitor programs and make sure these programs are providing outputs in terms of people find people being positioned to be placed in jobs. They have skills now. Right.
Meredith Mears [:And so you work with the local community colleges and nonprofits and you make sure that, you know these things are happening in your community. It's not that I didn't see the value in that, but for me, there was nothing tangible. And I, in the back of my mind, wanted to see tangible results. I wanted to touch what I was working on. And then I went into economic development shortly after. And of course, economic development, you're, you know, working with small businesses. It. It was Closer to entrepreneurship and, and the business community than I had ever been.
Meredith Mears [:And you know, I started off as a, actually a deputy director of Economic development in Worcester County, Maryland. Had a great mentor there named Bill Badger. And when it was time for him to retire, I was then hired as the director there. And I kind of that time I, I was there for a couple years. I entered the Leadership Maryland program towards the end and I really got to a point where I'm like, okay, I've kind of topped out in this and I, you know, I still have this yearning to have tangible outputs and so what else is there for me? And that's, that's when I jumped.
Eric Brotman [:So growing up and through school and into your first two levels of employment, I'm hearing two things, two trends. One, a bit of a scarcity mentality and two, your ability to identify terrific mentors. So, you know, moving from a scarcity to an abundance mentality is not an easy thing. It's not natural. We're not always taught to do that and mentors can help. Did you continue.
Eric Brotman [:On this journey with that abundance mindset and did you identify additional mentors along the way who helped make that happen?
Meredith Mears [:I don't know that I understood the abundance mindset until.
Meredith Mears [:2018, 2019, really, when I jumped. And that was kind of forced, right? And I don't know that I, back in those days.
Meredith Mears [:Was seeking out mentors or saying, hey, that's really somebody that I think I can learn from. I was very, very blessed in that.
Meredith Mears [:Somehow these people saw me and cared enough to talk to me or to guide me or to say things that needed to be said to me about, you know, you can improve in this way or you can let me introduce you to this person. You know, just including me, which, you know, doesn't, doesn't happen a lot. But you know, even after I jumped, I've had to purposefully find mentors and I've continued to do that. You know, they're few and far between, especially as you get older because, you know, people are.
Meredith Mears [:There'S fewer people still working at the level that you're trying to reach as you get older. And I've learned that. But when you, when you find a good connection with someone, you gotta hold onto it. And yeah, so I found others even after I jumped.
Eric Brotman [:So commercial real estate is, you've called it a jungle.
Eric Brotman [:Am I correct that commercial real estate is another like financial advising, pretty male dominated field. Was it hard to find people, mentors and folks who were strong women in the field? I know There certainly are many, but, but it's a really male centric field, right?
Meredith Mears [:Yeah. And you know, just full disclosure, I've always worked with, in a male dominated field. I somehow felt more comfortable in it, especially when I was younger. I felt like, okay, I see these, these men who are really successful doing things that I think I can probably do one day once I learn some ropes. And, you know, commercial real estate followed suit with that. So, so my entree into commercial real estate was not brokerage right out the gate. It was, it was development. And so.
Meredith Mears [:I left public service and I took, I started my. I have a boutique consulting firm that, you know, has a few clients at a time because we'll work on in depth projects over long periods of time and I don't desire to grow that into a huge, huge, huge thing. But my main client was a regional developer and they, I learned, I learned how to do what they do, you know, from developing pro formas to understanding lease rates as a result of all the inputs and cash and design. I learned some brokerage from them. And when it made sense for that relationship to end, it did. And I rolled into, you know, what was next for me. So.
Meredith Mears [:Always, always male dominated. But I have been so fortunate that the men that I have worked with and there have been, you know, a couple women in self storage particularly, that have really taken me under their wing and just shared. In brokerage, people don't like to share. It's very, you know, to your vest. It's very competitive. So it's few and far between.
Eric Brotman [:So, you know, I, I feel like I've known you a long time. You know, we've known each other, you know, and, and got to know each other over a long period of time. But what I didn't understand until today, until just this minute, was just how much courage you have. I don't think I realized. Well, I'm being serious.
Eric Brotman [:I don't think I realized just how much of a jump and a leap of faith you took from something pretty safe to something pretty unsafe. Would you do it all over again?
Meredith Mears [:Yes. A hundred times over. A thousand times over.
Eric Brotman [:Would you have done it sooner if you could talk to your younger self or was it the right time for you?
Meredith Mears [:I mean, I say no automatically, but I don't know how financially I could have. So, you know, my.
Meredith Mears [:You know, the jump from public to private service. So, you know, when I, when I jumped in 2018, I had a nice contract with one client who I didn't have to take on any other clients. I could just kind of roll with them, learn, and that's what I did. But I also knew in the back of my mind that I better start investing in property and I better start figuring out the rest of the way.
Meredith Mears [:And, and, and that's what I did. I could not have invested in my first property in 2018 if I didn't have the, the savings that I saved up until that age. Got it.
Eric Brotman [:So you're now managing. Not only are you doing consulting for big developers, but you're also managing your own portfolio of commercial real estate.
Meredith Mears [:Yes.
Eric Brotman [:Good for you. That's a lot of work.
Eric Brotman [:Sounds like a lot of work.
Meredith Mears [:It's fun.
Eric Brotman [:You know what if it, if it's fun, then it won't feel like work. I guess. That's good.
Meredith Mears [:Yes. Yeah, it's definitely. There are some days I want to crawl in a hole and like, you know, cover myself up, to be completely honest. But the most, most of the days I'm like, this is fun. Let's, let's do another one.
Eric Brotman [:Well, I, I, I can't. First of all, I can't thank you enough for sharing so transparently.
Eric Brotman [:And so openly. I have to ask you what it is you want to be when you grow up, and I would love. I, you know, I, I just, I just have a good feeling about this question today.
Meredith Mears [:When I grow up, first of all, I'm flattered because I felt like I was grown up and kind of like, you know, on the, on the down downside, I'm heading towards 50 quickly.
Meredith Mears [:That's what people, Yeah, I welcome that. When I grow up, I think I want to be in the position to be able to consistently.
Meredith Mears [:Give and develop property for.
Meredith Mears [:Community.
Meredith Mears [:Services. So, for example, one of my first developments and one of my most.
Meredith Mears [:Prized developments was, you know, I was able, I was fortunate enough to invest in a property that was a former dentist office. And we completely gutted the building, put a new roof on, and got a therapist office in there. And not just any therapist's office, but a true community based therapy office that is well recognized and, you know, a ton of community, you know, people in the community go there. So we were able to actually bring them out from a small office at least, and give them their own space, their own parking lot, and to see the shambles of what was in that building to what it is today and people coming in and out and feeling better. It's those types of things that I would like to continue to do and do more of when I grow up.
Eric Brotman [:I have no doubt you're going to. That's fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing all of this. Where can folks who want to learn more about your consulting, more about you, where can they find you online and elsewhere.
Meredith Mears [:So my consulting company is called mike3 synergies.com. it's M and the number 3 synergies.com and then my brokerage can be found@svnmiller.com and there is a little tab for advisors and I'm under there as Meredith Mears. Of course, of course.
Eric Brotman [:It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for, for joining us. This is, I knew it would be wonderful to, to see you and chat with you. I had no idea I'd be doing it from the Amazon, but that that was an added benefit. So, so thanks for doing this. I appreciate you being here and, and sharing so much with us today.
Meredith Mears [:Thanks, Eric.
Eric Brotman [:I'd like to thank everyone for listening and watching today. If you enjoy our show, please don't keep it a secret. Share it with friends and family so they can join you on your journey to financial freedom. We'll be back next week with another entry in our Diary of a Financial Advisor series and in two weeks with another engaging guest. For now, this is your host, Eric Brotman, reminding you don't retire. Graduate.
Eric Brotman [:Securities offered through Kestra Investment Services llc. Kestra is member finra, sipc Investment advisory services offered through Kestra Advisory Services llc. Kestra as an affiliate of Kestra is Kestra is or Kestra as are not affiliated with Brotman Financial or any other entity discussed.
