Change is often misconstrued as a mere matter of willpower, yet we delve into the notion that resistance may not be the primary obstacle. Instead, we posit that the intricacies of our nervous system and the shadows of survival trauma significantly shape our relationship with transformation. In this enlightening dialogue, I am joined by the esteemed Karishma, a holistic wellness coach and author, who advocates for a trauma-informed approach to personal growth. Together, we explore how conventional self-help paradigms can inadvertently perpetuate cycles of self-sabotage and procrastination, stemming from deeply ingrained survival strategies. Our conversation invites listeners to reframe their understanding of change, emphasizing the importance of compassion and self-regulation as foundational elements for sustainable transformation.

In our exploration of the complexities surrounding change, we dissect the traditional paradigms that suggest a simplistic, almost mechanistic approach to personal growth. Through the lens of trauma-informed practices, the conversation reveals that the resistance individuals encounter is not merely a sign of weakness or lack of willpower, but rather a manifestation of deeply ingrained survival mechanisms shaped by past experiences. Karishma shares her own journey, illustrating how the pressures of societal expectations have historically clouded her understanding of self-worth and progress. This dialogue serves to dismantle the myth that knowledge alone catalyzes change; instead, we emphasize the importance of emotional regulation and self-trust as integral components of the transformative journey. By fostering a compassionate relationship with oneself, individuals can navigate their paths more effectively, allowing for gradual and meaningful change that respects their unique histories and challenges.

Takeaways:

• The common belief that change solely relies on willpower is a pervasive misconception.
• Resistance to change may actually stem from trauma and the protective mechanisms of the nervous system.
• Rethinking change involves understanding the role of survival strategies in shaping our habits and self-talk.
• Compassionate self-acceptance can serve as a more effective motivator for personal transformation.
• A supportive relationship with oneself is crucial in overcoming feelings of failure and discouragement.
• Engaging in regular self-reflection can foster a healthier internal dialogue and promote lasting change.

Links referenced in this episode:

• Towards Wellness
• Amazon

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We are often told that change is all about the willpower.

Trying harder, thinking differently, pushing harder, pushing through resistance.

But what if that resistance is not the problem at all?

What if it's actually intelligence shaped by the survival trauma and the nervous system protection?

So today's conversation is about rethinking change itself.

So hey dear listeners, welcome back to another powerful episode of Mind meets Machine where we explore how the human inner world intersects with modern frameworks for the growth, healing and performance.

And today I'm joined by a lovely guest.

Please welcome Karishma.

So welcome to the show.

Thanks Avia.

It's great to be here.

Amazing, amazing.

So dear listeners, before we delve deep into our discussion today, I'll quickly love to introduce with Karishma so Karishma is holistic wellness coach, author and the creator of Karishma's work focuses on trauma informed and non prescriptive approaches to change.

Helping people move away from all or nothing self help and towards the regulation, self trust and sustainability sustainable quality of the life as well.

So in this episode we will explore how survival strategies shape our relationship with the change and what actually supports real and lasting transformation.

So why to wait?

Let's get started.

Welcome to the show again.

Thanks Abby.

Well, this is such an important conversation for us to be having within our societies nowadays.

Exactly, Totally agree.

So I mean before we get into the frameworks and the tools, I'm really, really curious like when you think about the word change, so what do most people misunderstand about why it's so hard?

I think that we, we for many of us anyway, I won't speak to for everybody but many of us grew up within cultures where it was just kind of like expected that, you know, you're supposed to know how to do it.

You inherited ideas of what success looked like and there were things expected of you and you were supposed to just be able to do it pretty much instantly, you know, like with, without any kind of context for like learning and growing and figuring out how to create that change and the process that it actually takes to create any change.

In my own life I use the word change and growth and healing all pretty much in the same way, right?

Cause it's, for me it's all that way.

I don't think we, it's rare that we grow or change.

I think, I guess sometimes we change for the, for the worst but for most part we, we tend to change towards, in a healing or growing kind of way unless it's something's come along to create that change in a In a very negative kind of way.

Exactly, exactly.

So that distinction is already, I mean, that already shifts the conversation from what's wrong with me to what happened that shaped me.

Right.

So also, like, about the common misconception, if I have to talk about.

So there's a strong belief that once someone understands what to do, change should follow naturally.

So from a kind of trauma informed lens, what does that idea break down?

So if you can share.

Yeah, well, I, I, you know, my, my books and my work, it's a lot of, it's based on, some of it's my education, but some of it is lived experience.

Right.

You know, and I definitely was somebody who had that unrealistic expectation.

Like I really struggled with low self esteem, low self worth, and really like actually kind of hating myself when I was younger.

So I spent many decades actually just thinking that all I had to do was like, make up my mind.

If, if I had the willpower or the discipline or the commitment to love myself, then, then I would just, it would just happen like that, you know, like, that never worked.

I, I would gain some ground certainly, but I always sort of ended up back where, where I had started.

And I was like, okay, well, you're not in this instant idea of jumping.

I always talk about it from, like jumping to the, from the bottom of the staircase to the top.

You're not actually ready to be there because you didn't take the steps you needed to take to actually get there so to where you were in the first place.

So maybe that's not a quicker way.

Like I had always thought maybe actually like going really slow, taking it a step at a time, building up the agency and the confidence to be where I'm at as I, as I climb or make that progress.

And something I was really not aware of most of my life was that my nervous system itself needed for me to go slow, for me to feel safe with the changes that I was creating in order to actually be able to maintain that change.

Exactly, exactly.

And.

Okay.

And, and also, like, what I am, I'm hearing is that insight alone.

It's not something or it's not enough when the nervous system is still operating in the protection mode.

Am I correct?

Right?

Yeah, yeah.

You know, like, I think I had a, I don't know how many of you have that image of crack the whip, you know, and, and come down, we're stern with ourselves.

You know, this is how to motivate ourselves.

And it might work in the short term, but I think it always backfires just as it does with children.

So you know, I learned that, excuse me, compassion based practices which, you know, like I had the same kind of stereotypical belief that I run into other people if I'm nice to myself, then all I'm going to do is sit on the couch eating bon bons and watching tv, right?

That, you know, compassion couldn't be a motivating factor.

But Kristin Neff and Brene Brown and Tara Brock and all kinds of other peoples came forward and I was listening, you know, and I finally got to a place where I was willing to sort of try that.

And what I discovered was that the real compassion in combination with things like radical acceptance were actually ended up being much stronger motivators and that I actually thrived and in that kind of an environment with myself.

Whereas, you know, like I had been very unique, unhappy and it, the pressure, shame, perfectionism, guilt, blame type of survival based strategies I had for creating change just made me feel really heavy, you know, and, and they were like adding really heavy layers to me trying to do anything.

I always picture, you know, like I'm climbing up the mountain and my approach most of my life had been to like, you know, continually add boulders onto my backpack.

And what I've learned in the last seven years certainly is like, okay, let's, you know, might, it's already hard climbing up the mountain, so let's kind of try to minimize how many boulders we can put in our backpack.

Right.

And like, let's understand that it is difficult and let's learn how to encourage ourselves as we climb up that mountain.

And let's also take into consideration the fact that, you know, there's going to be days where we lose a little bit of ground.

Very true.

Very, very true.

And also like if you talk about the root causes, right.

So um, how do the survival strategies, especially those shaped by the trauma, widely influence our goals, the, our habits, even the self talk as well.

So what do you think?

Yeah, well, you know, like survival, that, that word is sort of makes sense, right?

But you know, depending where we came from, but most of us have experienced that pressure to keep a roof over our head.

You know, it's like you, you, you have to do good at, at your job because if you don't do good at your job, you might not have the money to pay for food and you, or a roof over your head.

And so that's a lot of pressure.

Right.

And if we never really learned how to deal with that pressure or if we lacked a greater sense of faith that we would be okay no matter what, then, you know, we're just, we're just living in that fishbowl of pressure.

And that extends to so many things, right?

You know, like if I am not nice to others or if I don't do this, or if I don't do this or there's this concept that we are under threat and we might not recognize it so much as an adult because it doesn't seem like as big of a threat.

But when we were younger, it was a huge threat, you know, and our very, like that's the thing, our very survival relied on us figuring things out, figuring them out quick and doing things a certain way because, you know, particularly as children and then growing up, we didn't have control over our environments or whatever.

So we, we learned to control what we could and do whatever that we could to, to survive.

And I think, I don't know what percentage of the population it is, but it's, it's this a human being kind of thing that, you know, depending on what kind of situation and circumstances that we're going to be in, survival is there for a reason and it alone is not a bad thing.

There's, you know, I have a critic that has always wanted more for me and who's always looked out for danger and that's a brilliant thing that has kept me out of a lot of really bad situations and that's also allowed me to achieve a fair amount in my life.

But as a long term strategy for creating the kind of changes in my life, it's not so great because it's actually a lot more difficult.

And it's really great in a pinch.

If I show up at a party and I get a bad voodoo kind of energy going on with that.

And that part of me is going like, get out of here, get out of here.

It's good.

Listen, get out of there.

Right?

But you know, if I'm living in a world that has that kind of energy, I might want to figure out some longer term strategies that allow me to be at peace within myself, take care of myself really well, but then really get to like, you know, have a quality of life and enjoy myself and sort of navigate those.

There's real threats in the world, but if we can start to learn how to navigate them from a place of calmness and nervous system regulation and trust within ourselves and maybe even trust in, in something greater sometimes it's just like it's a whole different way of being that, you know, also has a different impact on our, on our longevity and our health.

Right.

Because those living in threat, living in fight, fright, flu, freeze or fawn also takes a real impact on our, on our health and our bodies.

You know, it might not show up right away, but kind of eventually does.

Very true.

Yeah.

So, I mean, obviously, so what looks like is procrastination or self sabotage is often a deeply, deeply learned strategy for staying safe.

So, yeah, you know, I took me running into somebody else, a wonderful professional I work with, and it was just like she always, like I would, I would always kind of try to blame myself.

Right.

And my critic has a very narrow lens of looking at things.

It looks at things out of context, right.

Like, you know, and it calls me names and stuff.

Like, you know, and I was, it was mirrored back to me.

Perspective was shown to me.

This like, hey, there is always a reason.

If I'm struggling to do something, you know, or not able to do something, there is always a reason for it, usually a very, very valid reason.

And it isn't until I can actually acknowledge that reason why I'm not doing the thing it is that I want to be doing, then I'm not going to come up with a realistic plan or problem solving that's going to allow me to move forward in that area.

Sometimes I, that's not even the right goal for me.

But if, when it is, you know, like sitting in the, in the blame or the shame or the being stuck in a threat mode, it doesn't allow me to actually meet myself where I'm at and figure out what it is that might be needed in order to actually move forward with that goal for myself.

If that.

Does that make sense to you?

Makes sense.

Makes sense, definitely.

So one thing I definitely have to ask you, like in your coaching work, how does this tend to show up day by day or day to day for the people who genuinely want to feel better or live differently?

Well, ironically, almost everybody I've ever worked with has this skill of being nice and supportive and encouraging towards their friends and loved ones.

Right.

And then what I discover almost across the board is so they maybe, maybe somebody wants to lose weight.

Maybe somebody wants to learn to eat better.

Maybe somebody wants to quit smoking.

Maybe somebody wants to start exercising more.

Like they're, they have these goals for themselves.

But what almost always reveals itself is that the relationship to self is not the same kind, supportive, encouraging relationship, the way that they treat the other people in their life.

You know, like if you came home and you, you forgot to get the milk because you had an upsetting phone call before you left work I'd be like, oh, baby, I'm so sorry to hear that.

That's okay.

We'll get milk later.

But if I was the one to forget the milk, I might be like, oh, you idiot, you forgot the milk.

Now you've ruined the, you know, now we can't have milk at dinner.

And so it's like where I, where I think I shine and where my passion is, is helping people sort of like, you know, look at that relationship to self and then, you know, develop some attunement.

That increase includes compassion.

And we might not necessarily like everything that we see about ourselves, but, like, let's learn to approach it with, like, compassion and understanding, you know.

And I also really like the radical acceptance tool because it's like when we can accept things, and these are often things that we don't, that we have difficulty accepting, right?

But when we can accept them, that does involve emotion and feeling.

But from there is the place where we can actually do something about changing it.

Right?

So, but yeah, it's.

It's, for me, it's all about, like, helping people develop a kinder, more attuned relationship to themselves.

Because it's like how many of us in society is like, when we walk along the sidewalk and we fall in a hole, we stand above ourselves at that, and we scold ourselves for having fallen in the hole.

Whereas, you know, if we can learn to come across ourselves in that hole and say, hey, oh, wow, I bet you feel horrible falling down in that hole again.

Here, let me, Let me offer you a hand up, right?

Let me offer you.

And let's figure out, like, you know, how we can stop falling in this hole, because I know it, I know it really sucks when you fall in that hole, you know, so when we learn to have that kind of a understanding with ourselves and approach, you know, instead of being very reactionary from a blame and shame kind of place, but responsive from a kind, compassionate, encouraging and.

Understanding kind of place, exactly like you work with the approaches like the compassion, nervous system, regulation, mindfulness, even rethinking goal setting as well.

So what does a more supportive starting point or for the change actually look like?

Well, I think it really depends on the person because we all have different degrees of trauma and we're all in different places.

Like, I, I've worked with some people who by and far are actually pretty nice to themselves across the board, but there'll be one or two little places where they're not right.

You know, there's one or two little places where that idea of Change is pressure and unrealistic.

Right?

So with those, those people, we'll look at that and we'll perhaps like really lean into the way that they support themselves in the other area and, and kind of like look at why that's not happening in that place.

For other people that have like really low self worth and a rather critical, negative kind of relationship with themselves, it's really going to depend on their capacity and their history and what they're open to.

So I choose from a wide range of like, you know, with myself I consider them interventions, you know, But I think for somebody who's really overwhelmed and having like a really hard time even knowing what their internal world going on, real simple thing I used in my own life was just once or twice a day to just do a scan, close my eyes for like even five seconds and just ask myself what's going on on the inside?

You know, what is just checking in with myself like what, what is going on?

And from there, from there like I developed a pause and then I had a choice like, oh, wow, you're really struggling.

And I started to develop like, you know, care that like, ah, wow, you're having a hard time right now.

I can feel that.

You know, so then I, I can do things like put my hand on my heart, just take one deep breath or for a couple years I would just check in.

It was usually struggle and distress there.

And then I would just like, you know, it's like, ah, you're struggling.

I hear you.

Okay.

I love you.

Right.

And I, I learned to do that from once a day to multiple times a day.

And that scan can include whatever you're comfortable with.

But like it could be, you might notice your emotions, you might notice your, oh my, my neck is like so tense.

Right.

You know, or my jaw is clenched.

Could be sensations, could be like, oh, wow, my thoughts are really racing, you know, but there's, there's all this information going on in our internal worlds and for many of us we have not been paying attention to that.

We've been paying attention to other people.

We've been, we've been paying attention to external things and it's just that slow journey of like actually listening and paying attention to what's going on on the inside.

And then depending how what there is going to like, you know, I work with a lot of people who also work with counselors, right.

For to do a little bit of the deeper, heavier kind of trauma work.

Right.

I can certainly meet people where they are at and we can do a lot of it.

But for.

For some people that have a much heavier trauma history can be also good to work with a counselor as well as me or even instead of me.

Right?

Exactly.

Exactly.

Definitely.

It actually reframes.

That's something like we build safety for, rather than something we force ourselves into.

Right.

So that's a good plan.

So for the listeners who are listening, who feel.

Suppose.

Who feel stuck, exhausted, or discouraged by the repeated attempts at change for them, what's the one compassionate reframe you'd offer them right now?

Well, right now I'm actually kind of, like, been speaking a lot about the journal I created, which was a transformational process in my life that really helped me rewire my brain, and it helped bring a voice to the surface beyond the critical one.

So that is something, whether or not you use the journal, which just makes it simpler, or you do it yourself.

I didn't have a journal when I did it.

But it's the idea that once a day, or it's best at night.

Cause that's often when we're going through our day and identifying where we messed up.

And the idea is to sort of identify what went well or what was difficult.

You know, we will listen to our partners or our friends about what was really hard or what was challenging, what took courage, what were they able to maintain.

All these different kinds of things, but these.

These kinds of questions, I call it, like, ways I showed up for myself.

Right.

And it's a personal thing because, you know, maybe for me, brushing my teeth this morning was really, really hard.

And it's super easy for you.

Right?

So.

But it's like taking a moment to reflect.

It only takes five to 10 minutes, and it's so powerful.

And you can do it with the journal, or you can just do it on your own.

It's just like, ask yourself a few questions from a little bit different lens Is like, what.

What did I do today that was really hard?

Or what did I do today that, you know, took some courage?

What did I do today that, you know, that was a commitment to maintaining something, or what did I do that let go of something for a little, you know, for even a moment?

Right.

And what I find is the smaller the thing, like, the more credit and acknowledgement and validation you can give yourself for things like no matter how small they are, starts to develop this entirely different relationship, Likely one that, like I said, this is likely how you treat other people, but you've never learned to treat yourself.

And it just starts with taking, like, five to 10 minutes to start to like, you know, listen to what your reality for the day is and look at where, you know, what was meaningful to me today.

Gratitude is fantastic.

But I find that if you don't have that foundation of self, your gratitude for other things is going to be like a little bit hollow in a way.

It might seem real, but we need, just like the sun needs the moon and the moon needs the sun, we need that foundation with self for other things to hold more meaning, right?

So if we can start to recognize what is really important and going on within our own internal worlds by using some curiosity, I like to say the mix of curiosity and compassion, right?

You know, rather than that, like, threat lens at the end of the night, like, oh, where did I mess up?

What's, what's coming tomorrow that I'm not on top of, but just that, you know, like, oh, what?

And it builds confidence and agency and it starts to develop this more attuned, loving kind of relationship with ourselves that ends up being something that we get to draw on in difficult times and with any kind of change that we're trying to thing.

I get to ask this question about the overwhelm all the time.

And, you know, just learning to respond to our overwhelm differently.

Like, oh, charisma, you're feeling overwhelmed.

Wow.

Okay, I got you.

I gotcha.

What should we do?

Should we have a cup of tea?

Should we lie down?

Should we go to bed early?

Should we call a friend?

You know, like, you're.

You're overwhelmed.

Let's.

How.

How can I help?

Right?

You know, and just learning how to respond to that overwhelm as a human being is a game changer, right?

For sure.

And here differently.

I love to say that lasting change, it doesn't begin with the pressure.

It actually starts with the strategy, understanding, I'd say the kind relationship with the parts of us that learned how to survive.

Right?

So that's amazing.

I like to say, like, you know, so many of us, we're on autopilot or we're kind of checked out to ourselves.

So if I'm not aware of what's going on inside myself, I don't stand a chance of actually tending to it.

And if I'm not tending to it, then it's just going to kind of run amok, right?

So, you know, back to the nervous system kind of things.

It's like, if I understand I'm in distress, or I understand I'm anxious, or I understand I'm fearful or anything like that, then I can start to do some things like, you know, okay, let's ground for a minute.

Let's breathe for a minute.

Maybe we'll try some meditation.

Maybe we'll like.

But that's what I mean.

That awareness gives us the opportunity to actually tend to what's going on, which then creates entirely different results.

Exactly.

And it's really great.

And Karishma, like, where can listeners learn more about your work, your books, coaching?

So if you can share, well, here's.

The latest journal and it's on Amazon or you can reach out to me and then yeah, this is the, the main book, the Light Switch Myth.

And so probably the easiest way is to go to Towards Wellness.

Cause the, the books and stuff about my coaching and my beliefs and my even have an accessibility policy that if you cannot afford a copy of the Light Switch Myth, you can reach out to me and I will email you a PDF copy because I know what it's like to be limited in resources.

But yeah, Towards Wellness is kind of the hub.

If you Google charisma, Veer, I pop up all over the place.

And you are welcome to interact with me on any social platform that you find.

I. I always respond back to people and I'm happy to have like, you know, friendly chats about things.

And yeah, all my, all my books are on Amazon or you can get them through me as.

As well.

Yeah, Towards Wellness C. Probably the best bet.

Yeah.

Amazing.

So what I'll do is, dear listeners, I'll put all the links into the show notes for easy reference.

And with this hope, thank you so much for joining us on Mind Meets Machine.

And if today's conversation has resonated with you, I invite you to reflect on how you relate to change.

And not just as a kind of personal failure, but as a nervous system story waiting to be met with care.

So with this hope, until next time, this is your host, Avik.

And stay curious, stay grounded, and be gentle with your process.

So thank you so much.

Thanks.