Today, I've invited The Parentologist, Dr. Kim Van Dusen, to teach us about how to make parenting easier using play.

Dr. Kim Van Dusen is a licensed marriage and family therapist, registered play therapist, and parenting expert specializing in early childhood through adolescence. With more than two decades of experience as a clinician, educator, and public speaker, she works with families to support emotional regulation, positive behavior, and stronger parent–child relationships.

In her book, Parenting Through Play: Creative Strategies for Building Better Behavior, Deeper Connection, and Positive Communication, Dr. Kim walks parents through 3 evidence-based modalities: play therapy, solution-focused therapy, and positive behavior interventions and supports (PBIS).

We're talking about ways you can bring more play into your life and how to and turn charged moments into connection.

Read the full show notes at www.calmmamacoaching.com/blog

You'll Learn:

• Why play is such a powerful parenting tool
• 4 common myths about play - and the truth behind them
• The moment when Dr. Kim leaned into play with her kids and why it still stands out in her memory years later
• How to fit “purposeful play pockets” into everyday life

Connect with Dr. Kim:

• Get the book: Parenting Through Play: Creative Strategies for Building Better Behavior, Deeper Connection, and Positive Communication
• Follow her on IG @TheParentologist
• Learn more about Dr. Kim’s work on her website
• Listen to The Parentologist podcast

Free Resources:

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In this free guide you’ll discover:

✨ A simple tool to stop yelling once you’ve started (This one thing will get you calm.)

✨ 40 things to do instead of yelling. (You only need to pick one!)

✨ Exactly why you yell. (And how to stop yourself from starting.)

✨A script to say to your kids when you yell. (So they don't follow you around!)

Download the Stop Yelling Cheat Sheet here

Connect With Darlynn:

• Book a complimentary session with Darlynn
• Learn about the different parenting programs at www.calmmamacoaching.com
• Follow me on Instagram @darlynnchildress for daily tips
• Rate and review the podcast on Itunes

Welcome back to Become a Calm Mama. I'm your host. I'm Darlin Childress.

And today's topic is how to make parenting easier

using play or playfulness. And I

think when we hear that about play or being a playful

parent, it can feel like, oh, my God, more things I

need to do to be a good parent. And instead of thinking of

it, like, more work, I want you to take this

episode and think about it more as, like,

oh, this is a hack to make parenting

easier by bringing a little bit more of a playful

attitude or a silly attitude into my parenting.

And so on. This. In this conversation, I've invited Dr. Kim

Van Dusen to talk about her new book, Parenting Through

Play. And in that book, she talks about creative

strategies for building better behavior, deeper connection, and

positive communication. In this episode, we talk a lot about

different ways to bring more play into your life, how to become

a little bit more playful within yourself, as well as

tools and strategies to use play in

your family in order to diffuse situations and

make things less hard, less charged, less

complicated. So I think you're really going to love this episode. Come

into it with an open mind, be playful as you listen, and try to

take one really great tool away so that you can

become a more playful parent and really make parenting a little

bit easier. So please enjoy this episode with Dr. Kim Van

Dusen. Good morning. Hi, Kim. How

are you doing? Good. How are you? Trying to get my video on. There we

go. Okay. Okay. Good morning. Yeah. Well, I'm

excited to introduce you to the Become a Calmomma audience.

And we're recording, so we can just hop right in. Perfect.

That feels good. Good. Yeah. Well, welcome to the podcast.

I am loving the title of your book, Parenting Through Play.

I have had a few episodes on playful parenting,

bringing more play into parenting, but to have you on here

and talk about this topic, I'm really excited. So welcome,

Kim and Dr. Kim and tell me a little bit

about your book and kind of what brought you to creating

this concept and writing the book Parenting Through Play.

I found a hole in the parenting world years back,

and I've been practicing as a licensed marriage and family

therapist for almost 20 years. And I've been a mom for

just over 12 years. And as I was navigating

motherhood and just going through, like I said, this parenting space and my parenting

journey, I found that just in the way I was raised

and how I think many people in my generation were raised, and then

just also what books were lacking out there that

I, through all of my Private practice and my

personal life. I wanted to bring something that I thought was new to the table

and I just do think it's new because the concepts in the book are

derived from three evidence based modalities, which is play therapy,

solution focused therapy and positive interventions, behaviors and

supports or positive behavior interventions and supports

pbis, which is often used in school settings mostly which I worked

in over two dozen elementary schools over the years. And so I saw

this come up often and again all research backed

and what I just found was that through

these three modalities it was the trifecta of really how

to be the most effective teacher, coach, parent, caregiver

out there. And there was nothing on it. There's been some books over the years

in regards to playful parenting. Lawrence Cohn came up with one about 20

years ago, which is a very well known book and he's amazing

but is also was 20 years old. And I wanted to bring a more modern

approach to this type of parenting and

even more recent ones, you know, didn't. It may have covered

more of the play based perspective of it, which again is very heavy in my

book, but it also didn't combine things like solution focused therapy

and or you know, more of that positive behavior intervention supports part.

So I wanted to bring all my tried and true secrets that I saw

work with my own kids and my clients and. And the book was born.

So it's been about a five year process to get it from

conceptualization to print, but here we are and it's an exciting

time and hopefully it gets into all the right parents hands that need it and

want it the most. Yeah. Well, congratulations. I know what it takes to

get a book out in the world, so good for you. And I'm happy to

have this resource for parents, parent educators like myself

and teachers and anyone working with kids and

families because it can feel heavy. So I

wanted you to talk about like what is play

to you? How would you describe it? How would you

describe a playful parent or playful parenting approach?

Like what are the hallmarks of that? What are we looking to create?

And then we'll get into strategies. Yeah, and that's a great

question because I think, you know, there's lots of elements to it in the sense

of. I think just the title alone will

detour a lot of parents maybe from even picking it up because they might say

to themselves, I'm not a playful parent or I'm not very silly or they might

have some anxiety around play even based on either their own childhood or just, you

know, once we Become an adult. We're kind of told by society that we shouldn't

be playing anymore, it's not acceptable to play. Play is for kids. And

I think a lot of us kind of forget how to play or forget the

feeling, the essence of what it feels like to play, which I think is a

pretty, is a pretty, pretty big part of this. And

you know, so I go through, you know, the interviews I've been having

lately and really debunking the myth that to play with your children

or to play with children, that it means you have to sit on the floor

and have active dialogue with them and take time out of your

busy, challenging, impactful day, as most of us moms have,

between our mental load and our actual visible load that we have on

a daily basis to make time and energy to play.

As we know, parenting and motherhood can be very rewarding and also

challenging at the same time, very time consuming. And it does take

a lot of time and energy to play. And so I think a lot of

parents will think, oh, that's just not in me. A, I'm not a playful person

or B, I don't have the time or energy for that. And so what I

say to those parents is a, all of these skills can be learned, all of

these skills can be taught. All of these skills can become second nature

and more natural feeling the more you practice them. It's, you know, kind of like

riding a bike. You know, you may take many years off of it, but once

you get back on, it becomes, you know, pretty second nature to you. And even

the most play resistant parents I've been able to through my practice

mostly, you know, kind of reteach them, what that essence feels

like. And so I share a story about years ago when my children, we were

on a walk, late afternoon, it was right before dinner time. I call it the

witching hour walk because it was that time, that lull in the mid afternoon

before dinner and before the bedtime routine and all that fun stuff.

And you know, we were walking along and in my head I had it very

planned out. We were going to get back at this time, I was going to

make dinner, then there was bath and then, you know, bedtime. And you know, all

of those things were very planned out in my type A type world that I

was living in with myself. And my kids walked by this grassy area on

the way home and the sprinklers were on and it was a warm, you know,

sunny day and they were begging me to go play in the sprinklers. And I

just kept saying, no, we don't have time for that. I have, you know, I

got to get home. We got to get dinner. You know, I was on this,

like, type of tight. And you're thinking to yourself, they're going to be all wet.

That's going to be more problems. They're going to get home. It's going to be

a mess. Also, sometimes we think they'll get wound up.

Yeah, exactly. You see the. You see the train of thought. And so that was

exactly what I was thinking. And then I have to do extra laundry, and it's

just going to give me more work to do, right? But they just kept begging

and begging, and they were pretty little. I mean, I would say maybe, you know,

six and three at the time, something in that time frame, and.

And finally just something snapped in me, and I just said, you know what? Why

not? Like, why not just say yes? Why not just let them play for a

few minutes? Right? I mean, yes, it would put us behind a few minutes and

maybe some extra laundry and whatnot, but really, if that's the worst that's going to

happen, let them play for a few minutes. So I said yes. And then I

was. As I was watching them, I just saw this joyfulness about them, this

freeing kind of essence that they were just playing and

having so much fun and not even caring how much they got wet or dirty

or how much time it took. Like, they were just in this playful

element. And I think that's the moment where I

realized, why aren't I playing? And why didn't I say yes? This is such

an important part of not just development, but just even a connection

with them. And so I put the stroller in park and I jumped off

the sidewalk, and I just started running through the sprinklers with them. And

it was just the most beautiful moment. And when I look back over the last

12 years of being a mom, that moment still stands out to me more than

many others of just the memory of how it felt to play, how it

felt to connect with them through that play. And that's what I

tell parents, like, you can get to that place, too. And doesn't really

take that much time or energy. And the power struggles, the tantrums,

the defiance, the back and forth, whether it comes, you know,

with getting out the door on time or picky eating or whatever. The case may

be that those also take a lot of time and energy.

So really and truly, you have a choice. They're both going to take time and

energy, but you either can choose the more peaceful, playful

route or you can choose the yelling and the tears and the

power route really. Right, right. So that's what I tell parents that

may be resistant to it or you know what, what I'm talking about here and

really truly then the day, it's not about sitting on the floor and playing for

a long period of time. It's really about micro practices of

play that we just use in our everyday. That doesn't even take really more time

or energy at all. It's the language we use. It's implement. Last

night my son was having trouble eating dinner. I got a pair of tongs and

I said put the fork aside. I could think it was a spoon, but you

know, put your utensil to the side. The standard boring utensil that you use every

single day. And I got it a pair of mini tongs. And he ate his

pasta with tongs instead of the utensil and he

thought it was the coolest thing and he ate his dinner. And there was no

power struggle, no one got upset, no one had any back and forth. And

it just, in that everyday moment, you can just switch up the

entire scenario of what you're going through and just something as simple as

that. And really, if anything, it saves you time and energy by parenting this way.

Yeah. Because you're not in a power struggle or a battle

or you know, both of you digging in your heels. And

I find, you know, I want to talk more about the obstacles, but I find

when we're in those moments, it's so hard to come up with the

idea to be, to bring in more

play. And I think you're right, it becomes easier as you practice

it. So you talked about this playful parents like in essence. And

then you kind of describe the kids playful energy and then you joining them.

And I'm wondering that playful energy is it.

It's like being a little bit in the moment,

not so in the future and not so in the,

you know, what's going to happen and where, why we have to do this and

that and this and that. It's a little bit more being present, it sounds like.

And being a little more embodied as well.

Absolutely. And I talk about that a lot in the book about. And that's where

the solution focus part comes in is, you know, solution focus

doesn't really focus anything on the past. It really is the present and the future.

However, in the case of just being an intentional parent, a mindful

parent of being in the moment saying yes more than you're Saying no, like, you

know, what's the worst that could happen? Or what's, you know, how far could this

is really put me behind? And there's going to be times you're going to have

to say no as a parent, obviously for safety reasons or just, you know, you

really are in a time crunch and you really have to say no in those

moments. But if you catch yourself saying yes, and I have a whole chapter on

this saying yes more than you say no, that when you do have to say

no, there's going to be less pushback, less power struggles, you know, less defiance

and tantrums because they know, well, she said no this time, but she also

said yes those 10 other times. So they know you're going to say yes again.

And it's not just no every single time they ask for something, you

know, so. So, yeah, it's really about that

presence, that being mindful, being intentional with your time in the

moment and really just prioritizing play,

I call them purposeful play pockets where you just find these little moments to find

playfulness in your day. And that's why I wrote the book is because

I was actually just asked about this on a news program I was on last

week is he said, well, what if you're not a creative parent? What

if you can't think of these strategies? And again, it becomes more second nature the

more you practice them. But that's why I wrote the book. It's very modern,

simple how tos. You literally go to the tantrum chapter or

the anxiety chapter or whatever picky eating chapter that you're dealing with, and

you can find a plethora of just idea after

idea after idea of these creative strategies. And so I really lay it out for

parents to make it as simple and easy as possible. The books at

paperback, you can stick it in your diaper bag or in the stroller or wherever

you are on an airplane. It's so easy to take with you on the go.

And. And if you can't think of a strategy on your own. I have plenty

of them in the book. And then some people have told me that they've looked

at the idea in the book and then they've come up with their own spin

on it, you know, for their own children, which has been fun too, to see

how they've kind of made it their own. So even, like I said, the

most resistant parent that doesn't think they have it in them. Try

the book. Reading the book first, I give you all the baseline

foundational ideas and the research behind it and why it works so well.

And then, yeah, eventually you can make it in your own and, you know, and

the creative side is probably in you. You just lost it over the years

because, you know, you became an adult and it was just kind of. You're so

embodied with the responsibilities of an adult that

you probably just forgot a little bit how creative you could be or how. How

much you could play and how it feels good, too. Yeah. I was

thinking that. That it might be useful to help

parents tap into their own fun or

play in order to catch the

feeling of it, of that playfulness,

so that when they're chasing it with their kids, they can kind of know

what it is that they're chasing. I always think it's nice to anchor you into

something that you already know, even if, like, you've lost it a little bit.

But there's probably some moments, and I'm thinking for myself, like,

when do I feel playful? When do I

have that kind of energy? I do notice it when I'm in

nature. I'm in the moment.

And it's not necessarily playful energy, but it's a

presence and a calm that I'm just in the now. I'm not thinking

about if it's really hard. Maybe I'm thinking

I want this to end, but typically I don't do that hard of things. And

it's just being in the woods, and it's just really beautiful and nice.

I think about when I'm with my friends and that we're all telling

a silly story or something, and we get those giggles, and

I love that. And sometimes, like, watching a

television program that's kind of silly or playful. So I

wonder if you have any ideas of how to tap into that for parents

before we get into all the strategies of, like, bringing it into their family,

just kind of finding it. I think we're all so heavy and

overwhelmed and not accessing that within

ourselves. And if we can find it without our

kids, maybe we can then bring it in easier. So do you have any ideas

around that? Yeah. Yeah, I do. And actually two separate chapters that,

you know, kind of hone in on that too. But it's. It's funny. I was

actually traveling this week, and I was at the airport, and I was in line

at Starbucks getting my morning coffee, and there was a man in front of me

who was wearing Crocs, but they were like Disney Crocs. They were like

mater Crocs. And I just looked down and was like, I need to start taking,

like, random photos. Of playfulness in everyday life with

adults because he was a grown man, but he had these Mater Crocs on. And

I thought that's playful. Like, that's. He doesn't. He's not doing. He's standing in

line getting a Starbucks coffee, but he's wearing these Crocs. And that,

to me, just embodied a little bit of playfulness. Right? Because, like, yeah, my

sister's this way. She's always like, if we go to

something, like, you know, she buys the Santa hat, she buys the

funny balloon, and it. To me, it's like, wasteful,

but it does. Then I let her do it, and then I have more

fun because we're being so silly. Like, we're wearing funny

outfits or. Yeah, maybe dress up. That kind of thing

can feel that way. Costumes or, you know, theme nights, like, that's

where adults find it. Yeah, that's great. Exactly. Or just even in the dance part,

I feel like most parents like to listen to music or most people

connect with music, right? And so if they just put some music on and they

find themselves kind of swaying a little bit in the kitchen, like, even without, with

or without their kids, you know, they could be with their. Their partner, their spouse,

girlfriends on a mom's night out, whatever the case may be. But we find those

playful moments, and I think we have. It's like looking for those glimmers.

You write. Looking for those playful glimmers in our life of, you know, where can

we find the joy, where can we find the playfulness? And really, like you said,

start tapping into that and be more mindful about it because we can get

sucked up into paying the mortgage and making the dentist

appointments and, you know, going grocery shopping and folding the

laundry. Like, things, right. That we could be. That could bog

us down, but looking for those things. And so usually when I, When

I speak at a conference, I bring out these, like, cotton snowballs and I start

just throwing them in the audience and just like, implementing a snowball fight. And at

first you see the, you know, a lot of the people have their arms crossed

against their chest and they're have a scowl on their face, like, what is she

doing? I'm an adult. I'm not going to play right now. And then a few

minutes later, you start seeing the jaws, you know, less tight and their

shoulders drop a little bit and they start actually throwing the balls. And then, then

you start hearing the laughter and the joyfulness. And anytime I'm at a conference and

we do something like that or something similar, there is hesitation at

first, and. But then when you let go, it's like they tap into that

feeling. And, you know, so I. So first

and foremost, the first chapter I was going to reference is my chapter on regulation

and making sure that we're regulated first before we can really parent effectively for our

kids, before they can be regulated. So before you can even tap into

this creative of yourself, you do have to be regulated. So I

give ideas in the book of how parents and moms can do that and then

also how to help their kids do it too. And once you're in that

lower cortisol stress state, your mind

is able to think of some of these more creative strategies. And just the other

day, a mom came to me and said, well, my husband's the playful dad. I'm

not the playful mom. I'm work, work, work. And I'm very, you know, type A

and just. It's hard. Structure the organization, the plan. Yeah,

keeping track of the time because we're holding down the forts at. Right.

I mean, we're, we're making it work. And so, But I said,

okay, so just for a moment, think how you mentioned this too, about hiking or,

you know, being out in nature. And I said, think for a moment what you

really enjoyed as a child. What, what, what was, what was it that made you

feel like, you know, playful and joyful and things? And she said, art. I really

like art. And I said, okay, start there. Start doing art with she. That

she has a son. I said, start doing art with your son and see how

that feels and see how it goes. And, you know, I'm sure he, he likes

it too. And so anyway, so she followed up and said she started doing it

and they started really connecting over this. Art and art can be very playful too.

You can do splatter painting, you can do all sorts of types of watercolors and

art that can feel playful. And so, so that's, that's

where, you know, the regulation part comes in first before, like I said, your mind

can go there. And then, you know, once you start playing, I think people think

that play comes after something like, you can play after your

homework's done, you can play after your chores are done as a secondary

backup is reward, really. But really, if you put the play first, then all the

other things fall in line much easier and much better. And

when you do have those exhausting, overwhelming days, which we all do, we're all

human and that's going to happen. I have a chapter for the overwhelmed,

exhausted, overworked parent where I give Playful ideas of how to still

play, be playful and connect with your kids without having to do the active back

and forth dialogue or to come up with a really creative strategy. You can just

say, hey, you know what? I'm a little tired today. Let's play spa. And you

lay on the couch while they put cucumbers on your eyes and brush your hair.

And you get to relax while they play or have them put on a fashion

show for you or, you know, read you a story in the book, if they're

able to read, you know, different things, to connect through playful ways where you don't

really have to exert really much energy at all. But like I said,

you'll still get the benefits of the happy hormones we get when we play

your kids too. The endorphins, the serotonin, the dopamine and things like that.

So. So there's definitely ways to tap into that and

like I said, give a lot of examples in the book on how to do

that. But you also have to have an open mind and let it happen.

I think there is a. And want it. Right. So why would we

want it? I mean, you said a little bit. You get more compliance

because kids, if they are feeling good, they are more

likely to say yes, to participate, to go with the

flow. If they are in a playful state, they are more likely to

engage and, you know, listen. And that kind of.

We all like that. If I'm being told to do something by someone

who's happy and jolly and like, bringing

me into the conversation, I'm much more likely to

participate and to say yes. And then also the

hormones you started to mention, like, why is it so helpful to

bring in play in our families? Yeah. So

like I said, just, you know, really reiterating that part of just the physiological

aspects of it. You know, I talk about in the book how, you know,

when you play, it lowers your stress levels, it improves

your immune system, it helps you sleep better at night.

Again, releasing all those happy hormones and, you know, reducing a lot of

the stress hormones. It helps build confidence and

competence in kids and even in your own parenting. You know, and just when you

start realizing there's not as many problems or challenges in your everyday

life, then parenting seems more joyful and much easier.

Right. So, you know, it helps children with their

problem solving skills, communication skills, social skills, things

like that, and can help, you know, parents with that, with their children. And,

you know, the first and foremost thing that, you know, parents I think need to

know is, you know, when you build that foundation of Trust and safety first.

And you do that through play, which is the child's language essentially. And you

do it through a language they understand and can make sense of and

respond to that. You will see all those other benefits. Right. Less

time and energy on what we've already talked about. Power struggles,

tantrums, meltdowns, defiance, disrespect, things like that. And

they are much more likely to have better behavior and comply and listen and follow

directions and you know, make good choices and things like

that. Because they know there's a level of respect for them that, you

know, they're more empowered, maybe making more choices and feeling like they're,

they're being seen, heard and loved, which a lot of times I feel like

kids don't get that opportunity very often because they're told why, what to do

by their parents and their, their coaches and their teachers. And they

often don't get choices or even really options to play in school anymore very much.

Recesses are like 10 minutes long and you know, so if they're not getting

the opportunity at home and they're not getting at school, then they're really being deprived,

which also affects their mental health and eventually, you know, their

physical health too. So there's so many benefits that helps the parent and the

child really live in this peaceful environment.

Yeah, it's worth it. And I just think it creates ease and

flow in your family dynamics. When we're doing those

transitions between getting someone out the door for

school or getting them home and starting to do afternoon activities

or getting them to bed or chores or anything like that.

If you have a light heartedness and you're creating a little bit of

joy around it, they like that, it

makes it easier. And so let's talk some strategies.

And it's always helpful, I think, if we can

categorize them. I don't know how it is organized in the book, but

there's gamifying, there's

imaginative play kind of, I don't know if you have

that in your mind of like some kind of broad strokes of ways to think

about bringing in more play, because I do. That's how my brain works.

And I think that's how my audience likes the way I structure things.

So I don't know if you can kind of like broad stroke idea and then

kind of we'll get into some brass tack how to's.

Yeah. So I'll share an example that happened in my home. When it comes to

gamifying the other day, my husband is very, I'm the

adult, you're the child, you do as I say or you know, you're maybe going

to get a consequence if you're not listening, you know, type thing. And of course

I'm obviously the way I am in my, in my parenting style that I

call played out parenting, which I describe in the book and that type of way

to parent. And so the kids, my kids are now 12 and 9,

so they're on the older side. But I want to share that because I think

a lot of people think just because the title and the way the book is

positioned is that it's just for parents with young children. And

it does. You can start as early as toddlerhood and go all the way

through elementary school. That's how it's also categorized on Amazon and other

places between early childhood and then school age children.

And so even up to my daughter's 12 and she still responds really well to

these things. And she's in sixth grade in middle school this year and loves these

strategies and really like said, responds to them well. And I have a

lot of parents buying the book from 0 to 2. So by the time

their children do get to toddlerhood, you know, they're prepared and ready for those years.

Right. So, so my, my kids had to do their

chores. They were pushing back, they were not doing it. They're sitting on the couch.

He's reminding them multiple times. I think a lot of parents are listening, can relate

to that moment of you've told me a hundred times and you're still not doing

it. And you know, there's, they're just like molasses, right? And

so then he left and he was like, okay, I give up. Like, they're not

doing it. Just, can you guys just have your chores done before I get home?

He went to the gym and I turned to the kids after he left and

I said, because it's hard. Like I said, you have to kind of think about

it sometimes and it's not always going to come very quick to you. It doesn't

even happen to me sometimes. But sometimes you take a beat, take a pause and

really think about it and say, okay, how can we make this fun? How are

they going to. That question right there is so important. I think that if that's

a takeaway, I think that would be helpful is

just how can I make this more fun? Is a great

question to ask when you're in the pause and when you're like things aren't

going well, how can I make this more fun? My thought

sometimes is like, smile like just

make, I don't know, start somewhere. Start somewhere. Just be like,

okay. I mean, we do a lot of mindset work on this podcast. It's like,

okay, this is not an emergency. We can get through it.

And so kind of resetting our own mind around

the misbehavior or whatever off track thing happening

and then asking, yeah, how can I make this more fun is so great.

Yeah. And you nailed it on the head. It is a mindset shift. The whole,

the whole book is really a mindset shift on how to parent. And

it's not permissive and it's not, not coming from a permissive place. And it's not

coming from a punitive punishment place. It's stopping yourself from just,

you know, innately jumping to, oh, my child's not behaving. I'm going

to give them a punishment of some kind, or I'm going to discipline them instead

of giving maybe the choice to behave or to give them a do over like

I talk about in the book, or like you said, asking, you know, how can

I make this more playful or more fun? And so my kids, again, were

just not responding well to just being told what to do, which a lot of

them don't because that's how adults get things done. But that's not how kids get

things done. Right. And we forget that, we forget how to speak their language. We

expect them to speak our language. Right. And so I said,

okay, I have chores to do too. So I'm going to jump in with you

and I'm going to do this with you. We're all going to do it together.

I'm going to set a timer and whoever gets done first gets, you know,

maybe 15 extra minutes of screen time or, you know, 15 minutes to stay

up late. It doesn't have to be like a prize as far as, like food

or toys go. You don't spend a lot of money or anything like that. Find

what your child wants and what they'll be motivated for. And so,

and then I had to get some emails done. And so then about 20 minutes

later, both kids were begging me, when's the game going to start? When's the game

going to start? And I'm like, okay, you know, in a minute, in a minute.

So finally, you know, we were in the hallway and I had my timer just

on my phone. Find whatever you can, if you have an Alexa, a timer on

your phone, a kitchen timer, whatever you need, microwave timer. But I set it on

my phone and they literally got in the runner's Pose, like in a stand. So

like, you know, to be ready to take off or like a sprint. Right. And

I was like, okay. And they said, count it down, Mom. And so, you know,

three, two, one, go. And they both ran. They got all of. They

had three chores each. Anything from sweeping the floor, washing

the windows and the mirrors, to putting dishes away from the dishwasher, things

like that. So nothing. That was very quick. By no means. They got everything

done within 30 minutes. And so then,

you know, of course, then it comes to, well, who's going to be the winner

and who's not, because they both kind of finished at the same time. And so

you can. We can talk about that later, how to handle that. But, you know,

sometimes I have both winners or sometimes I have a different category. Like, my daughter

won for Most efficient because she got it done in the same amount of time,

but I didn't have to correct her as much, versus my younger son, who's

nine and three years younger than his sister, but did everything really

quickly. But I had to tell them, oh, you missed a spot kind of thing.

Quality control. Yeah, right. So you can have two different prizes for

different things, you know, or you do pick a winner, or you just have them

go against their personal best. If you want to make it a competition between siblings,

which I know can be hairy, sometimes you can just make their own personal best.

And then each time they clean their room or clean up their toys or make

their bed, you can time them and keep a record of their own personal best,

if you want to do it that way, too. But just, you know, the little

shift like that. I have lots of ideas like that in the book where it

talks about freeze, clean when they're cleaning the room, play the

music when they're cleaning, have them freeze when they stop. And the gamifying. There's

tons of ideas in the book for the gamifying part of it. And then, like

I said, the picky eating, sometimes it can be as simple as replacing the pair

of tongs with the fork. Or I did this last night, too, and my

husband did this a couple weeks ago with our son. He put batteries in his

back and he was really tired. And then he wound him up and gave him

energy to eat. Or, you know, you can call them up on your phone

or a banana, whatever is close by and say, hey, you know, calling so

and so it's time to eat your dinner, you know, and do like in a

Mickey Mouse voice, or if you want to do a silly voice, you can do

something like that. But, you know, really and truly, it's in the everyday

moments and the every. You know, just. Mom heard me

at a conference the other day, and I was saying, you know, giving these kind

of ideas. And she said that night her daughter wanted to

play with her, and a young daughter, maybe around five or six years old. And

she. Her mom. The mom was just so tired, she just didn't have it in

her. And so she said, you know what? Let's play hair salon and

let's go. And I'm going to. I'm going to be your. Your patient, or you're

not patient, but, you know, your client. I'm going to be sitting right? And then

the daughter just was brushing her hair and kind of playing hair salon. She kind

of made it into a braid or, you know, put things in, like little clips

and stuff in her hair. And the mom just sat there. But they had such

a beautiful moment of connection through this play. And she was still, you know,

intentional with her daughter, but she just had to sit there. And her daughter did

all the work by doing her hair. And so I have lots of ideas about

that of just. And she made that completely on her own. I never even gave

her that idea, but that's what she came up with when I told her about

my spa idea. And then the last one I wanted to share

is another mom who heard me at that same conference a couple weeks ago,

said her son was refusing to get out of the shower. He just was not

listening. She said, it's time to go. It's, you know, it's time for bed. And

he just wasn't doing it. You can't get him in the water, and you can't

get him out. Right. You can't win. That's so true. And

then. But so she said, okay, I'm going to give you a choice. Because I

talked a lot about choices. And she said, you're going to be choice. You can

pick whatever animal you want to be. And then while you're getting out of the

shower, you're going to go, you know, to your room, you know, roaring like a

tiger or hopping on one foot like a bunny or, you know, moving slowly like

a sloth, if you have some extra time, whatever animal your child chooses.

And then they get to, you know, just in that moment, getting out. She said

he got out of the shower so quickly. She said she was apprehensive and

hesitant. I don't think this is going to work. But then she said that, and

he. I don't remember his exact age, but he was young, but he

gleaned onto it because she's not usually like that. And he said, okay. And he

chose lion. And he roared like a lion all the way to his bedroom to

get his pajamas on after that shower and got out immediately. So it's not

going to work every time for every situation, for every child. It's going to work

most times for most children in most situations, but it's going to work more often

than it's not. And I think parents were surprised by that, and they both were.

But they were like, it works, and it's amazing. And we all were happy and

everything was peaceful, and that's, you know, just. But in the book,

there's example after example after example like that, of just those micro

practices that we can just throw in, in the moment when our

kids are resistant to it. Yeah, it's so great

because it. It changes the energy between you and

your child. And they. That's right. The language of play

is there. What motivates them is having

fun, being playful. Parents are always wondering what

motivates kids, and it's just

play. Like, they want to have a good time. They want. They don't want to

go to sleep because that's the end of play. They don't want to go to

school because that's the end of play. They don't want to do their homework because

that's the end of the play. Everything that they do is

with the goal of play. Maybe as an adult, your goal is like,

maybe to make money or. I don't, you know, I don't know. Everything you do

is with something else on the other side to motivate

you. Like, I'm just trying to figure out how to lay down everything.

Everything I do is to try to figure out how a lot of times

create more time to lay down. But. But, you know,

I think about little kids and even young adults, like,

in teenagers, their. Their motivation is be with their

peers. Right. They want to do stuff with their friends. And so it's

like, if you have kids, kids not in adolescence, then that's all they want to

do is play, and they want to play with you and they want to be

playful. And if you have that belief that

that will be motivating enough, then it

will be effective in terms of changing the dynamic

between the two of you so that there's less resistance.

I noticed with my kids. And you can talk to this.

I would. I would, like, poke in with play

and see if I could say they were

resisting, even if they were like hey, you can be in this room as long

as you're not hitting. Okay, you're hitting. Looks like you have to go. Am I

going to drag you like a caveman? I would offer

little ways to make you move like you're moving, but

let's bring in choice of how you move. Right. We can have it be

playful and fun, but there were times when they

would reject that play, like,

no, don't touch me. Or like, this resistance.

And I realized that sometimes I was going

to play as a bypass of not really

acknowledging their emotion, not really centering

the first part of getting that this is

hard. And they don't.

They're struggling with emotional regulation. I think

play can be really effective to regulate because it brings in that

oxytocin and that serotonin. But if we.

I see this sometimes with men, they, like, overstep because they want to

bring that play in. And the child then feels quite unseen. And

I wonder if you could speak to that a little bit. Yeah, it can definitely

feel very invalidating for that child in that moment. And so I do talk a

lot in the book and just in my everyday life with

parents, and coaching parents through these situations sometimes is

starting first with the validation and validating their emotions.

I know this was hard for you when your sister took your toy or when

you have to go to bed. I know that's hard for you. Or you might

be scared and really put labels on all the emotions and really

teach them effectively what those emotions are, what they feel

like, and to acknowledge them and to sometimes sit in the mess a little bit

with them, too, and let them know it's okay to feel those things and. But

the feelings are going to be validated. Not all behaviors are going to be validated

in the sense of. But it's not okay to hit mom, or it's not okay

to hit your sibling or throw something across the room and break your toy or

whatever the case may be. So there is a differentiation there. And I do talk

about that. And then even showing some empathy and saying, you

know, I'm. When I'm upset, you know, that's how I feel, too. I feel like,

you know, I want to yell or scream, and then. And then that's when you

might say, you know, give them the choice, like, do you just need a hug

for me right now? Depending on their age, the older they get, they can tell

you what they really want more so than the little ones. But, you know, does

you need a hug right now? Do you need a few minutes of space? I'LL

come back in 10 minutes. You know, give them time to regulate and let them

know you'll be back and that you care about them and then check in on

them again, whatever timeframe you gave them. Sometimes kids want to have a timer. So

you can put a timer on for five minutes so they know when you're. When

exactly you're coming back. And so that's good too. So again, the empathy,

the validation, and then when you do that, be, be more of a

listener than a talker in that moment where again,

you're building trust, you're building safety, you're letting them feel seen, heard, and loved without,

like you said, jumping that step and just making it better. Because I think as

a mom, and I'll speak for myself, I don't like to see my kids in

pain. I don't like them to feel emotional pain, physical pain. And so lots of

things as parents, we, we get anxious about that and we want to cover it

up as quickly as we can so everything is just better. Like, we just want

to slap a band aid on it and kiss the boo boo and move on.

Right? But sometimes we do need to sit with those feelings. But

sometimes I notice parents, they'll

overcompensate by sharing. Oh, well, when I was your age, I had this time,

this exact same thing happened to me and it made me feel this. And then

the child's still feeling really unseen, like, well, wait, that's about you, mom. That's that.

What about me? Like, yeah, that's. I want to hear about your stories.

So that's also invalidating. So let them know you

felt that way before or you felt that emotion before. But you don't need to

dive into being relational. And I want to say

lecturing, but you know, having this long, drawn out conversation about how when you

felt that way and how you handled it, you know, leave them short and

sweet and then check in with them like I said, and then see what they

need, whether they need a hug or whether they just want to, you know, move

on. And then you can talk about it later. And you know, once everyone's at

baseline, then you can go back and maybe reflect or do a repair or whatever

needs to be done after the fact. It doesn't always have to happen in real

time. And then. Yeah, and then just. And then follow

suit. And then if they're ready to move on, then, then you move on.

And you don't really hold a grudge about it. You don't keep bringing it up

like, are you okay? Are you okay. Are you okay? You know, every few minutes,

like move on from it, and then, you know, the next day or even a

couple hours later, and then when they're calm,

not when they're in the heat of things, but when they're calm, then that's when

you can give them a strategy of, well, next time you're upset like this, instead

of hitting your sister or hitting me or kicking the wall or whatever they did,

say I'm going to give you a pillow to hit or kick when you're upset.

Or I'm going to, you know, you can express it this way. Like maybe you

scribble out your anger on a pie of paper, you know, and give it a

name and say, and call it Bob. And you're scribbling out Bob. Or, you know,

they might make it into a monster or something. And then, you know,

externalize it. You know, you can give them all. And I have again, a whole

chapter on anger and aggression in the book that gives you

ideas of how to express anger because it seems to come up a lot more

than most other emotions that aren't handled maybe in the best way

by a small child who doesn't know how to handle it. So teach them the

skills, teach them how to do that. And then,

and then, yeah, the next time, once you're in that teaching moment, then the next

time, hopefully if they do have those big feelings, then they'll know how to handle

it better. Yeah. Yeah, that's something for sure. Anyone

who regularly listens to podcasts that we talk about the emotional regulation

of the family quite a bit. And in terms of

play it, I just want the audience to know, not, not to feel like

they have to rush into it. It's an available

now what Strategy kind of post acknowledging. I was just thinking with your

9 and 12 year old, I get it. Chores aren't fun.

It's not the best. You're just chilling on the couch. But let's

gamify it. Let's make it. I think narrating a little bit

of that before we go into the play.

Do you want to be a monster? Do you want to be a lobster? Whatever,

Crawling to the, to the, to the bed. Oh, a lobster. That'd be

fun. It would be fun. But you know, it's like, oh, I know

getting out of the shower is not fun. Do you want to

make it fun? I think it's just kind of acknowledging

this part's not great. Let's see how we can make it great. And,

and not rushing to, like, play.

Play Play and not maybe not

recognizing that there's like a little bit of room there to

validate, obviously in a big feeling cycle or

that's what we call them, meltdown or something like that that

you can, I think you can try outplay. I think it's a great

little tool to see if they can shift, you know,

where even if they're in a heightened emotion, you can be like,

oh, looks like a big bad wolf is coming out of your belly or whatever

and stop it. Okay, we're

not ready for play. I think being in that attuned space where

you try it out. Okay, back off. Give it a minute

and then try again. And it's like kind of that dance in

parenting. Yeah. And there's not every moment's not going to be a

playful moment. And that's why the second half of the book is literally the

almost. There's really no play based parts in the second half of the book. It's

all based on the other two theories that I talked about earlier. And you know,

there's a chapter on how to set limits and boundaries with your children.

How to set appropriate outcomes or consequences, you know,

of what that looks like based on their age and developmental level. And you know,

like I said, giving them choices, giving them do overs, finding out the

motivation behind their behavior because there's probably something lurking underneath that

anger. Why, why they're acting out that way versus, you know, did something worry

them? Did something, something made them sad, you know, and so finding

being a detective and being curious about what's behind the behavior so you can be

preventative and maybe minimize the

severity of the big feelings or sometimes

eliminate them completely because you were proactive and preventative about it instead.

So, you know, because when they're running out in the middle of the street, you

can't really make that playful, like come back and you know, you can say something

like be a cheat and run, you know, you can do something like that. But

in the moment, as a parent, all you're going to be thinking about is your

child's safety. So if they're jumping like a frog down the

stairs, you know, and they could fall down the stairs and get hurt, that's the

last time to be. That's the last moment you probably want to be playful. And

so it's not going to come to you in those moments. But you can also

be very good about setting your behavior expectations and what it's like to look to

walk down the stairs versus run down the stairs or hop or whatever the case

is. Because those are also very important. But again, all of

those strategies on the second half of the book that talk about those more serious,

you know, common scenarios also all are

research backed and come from evidence based practices on how to do it more effectively

than just going back to that punitive discipline of, you know, just

telling what to do and expecting them to comply just because you're the adult and

they're the child. Right, right, right. Great. Well, I think

everyone should get the book because it sounds like there's lots of good ideas in

there and I wondered if you

had any tips or advice for people as we enter into the

summer time. This episode's gonna come out right

as everyone's breaking up for summer. And I wonder

if you have like a mantra you can give everybody or a thought process

or an invitation to how to approach the summer

in this playful, you know, play based idea.

Yeah, I think sometimes, you know, there's been a push to kind of go back

to the basics and not feel like, you know, you know, to

limit screen time and just play outside. And I think that's so minimized these

days. And you know, so if the weather is good and you have, you know,

the safe space for your child to play, I give 30 examples in the books

of just different ideas that, you know, you can really take for like a whole

month for the summer. You know, whether it's building a fort or, you know, doing

something fun with your kids. Nature, scavenger hunts, all

those sorts of things. But can you say a little bit more? So you said

nature. My, my people love, love a detail now. Nature,

scavenger hunt, making a fort. What are some other ones?

Do you remember? There's, Yeah, I mean even just like as simple as

unraveling, like putting one together then unraveling a rubber band ball, like

just different things. It's about, it's about independent Play. I have 30 ideas

in the book, but you know, but I have a chapter on independent play and

I think parents sometimes can over complicate what play is supposed to look

like. And you know, just letting your child use their imagination,

use their creative creativity, maybe get a little bored, but just letting

them have the space to play and you know, the invitation to play,

you don't always have to play with them. You can play alongside them or while

you're cooking. They can be drawing you a picture and you can tell them to

draw a turtlenecks or a horse or a shark or whatever it is while you're

getting other things done. And you don't have to Actually sit with them and take

time out to play and independent play and their own free

play, if you will, is just as important, if not sometimes more

important. During the summer when we do have a lot to do and our kids

are home with us, you know, all the time of, just to simplify it, don't

feel like you have to play with them all the time and simplify it, don't

make it too complicated. Don't, don't feel like you have to, don't feel the pressure

to have to entertain them all the time. Let them come up with their own

games and their own own type of play and, and that's very

important also for them. So, yeah, just, I guess I'm letting parents off

the hook of saying, hey, you don't have to be hands on all the time.

It's okay to let them just play on their own. And sometimes that's where the

best imaginative games come to play and come to life. So.

But there are a bunch of ideas in the book of just flip that open,

make a copy of it, put it on your fridge and then when you're in

that moment of okay, my kids are bored, I don't have time to play with

them, what can they do? Just pick one and cross it off the list of

something that they would want to do, you know, on their own

and may have to set things up for them in the forefront, but

then they're on their own and just, just watch them play. It's, it's

quite fascinating to see them play on their own also. Yeah, it sounds like you're

saying, like, trust that they can find their own play. Right. They can

find their own delight because that's their work and they're going to figure out how

to get that need met. And we don't have to always be the camp

counselor or the circus ringleader. You know, we

can actually be an observer and not the

leader of it, sometimes participate. But we can trust that they can

find their own way towards entertaining themselves.

That's their, that's their primary goal in life, is to be

entertained and they can figure that out on their own. I love that. Absolutely.

That's exactly what I'm saying. So. Yep. Good. Well, thank you so much for being

on the podcast. How do people find the book? What's the best way to

connect with you? What would you like to leave us with? The best place

to connect with me is on social media, is on Instagram. That's where I'm most

active. It's at the parentologist. And

then my website is the parentologist.com you can find all my blogs

on there and all my social handles. There's a book page on there with a

bunch of places you can buy the book. The book is available now everywhere books

are sold. Amazon's probably the quickest and fastest, but it's also available on

Barnes and Noble Books a million. There's a ton

of places, like I said on my, on my website, you can find that there.

And then my podcast is called the Parentologist Podcast,

which I think you're going to be a guest on that one soon, too. So

that's going to be exciting. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much.

Thank you.