Shownotes
Dustin from Cole-TAC joins John and Kaylee on State of the Second to talk through a question the firearms industry keeps circling: does "Made in America" still matter when imported goods are cheaper and faster to get? Dustin started the company with his wife in their spare bedroom in New Hampshire in 2015, almost by accident. He bought a suppressor cover, destroyed it the first day out, and his wife, a sewing wizard, told him she could have made something so much better for less. His buddies at the shop where he worked, Ruger, saw the one he made and wanted their own, and a side hobby turned into a company. Nine years later Cole-TAC runs out of South Dakota with 29 employees and hundreds of products for civilians, law enforcement, and military.
The heart of the episode is what it actually takes to make sewn goods in the United States. Dustin is blunt that sewing here is close to a dead industry. Almost everyone he hires arrives with little or no sewing experience, so the company trains from zero and works to turn its sewers into craftsmen. He explains how products get born from real use in the field, like the Rifle Guardian rain cover that came out of a soaked long range match in North Carolina, and the Brain Bucket bag built for a SWAT team in Georgia. He walks through why most customer requests do not become products, how design time is expensive, and how the company automated its custom suppressor cover process so a website order feeds patterns straight to a CNC cutter and down to the sewers with a custom touch at production scale.
The conversation also covers COVID, when Cole-TAC designed and made over 60,000 hospital gowns in a couple of months after supply chains from Asia shut off, and the lesson that the country still leans on overseas labor that is significantly cheaper. Kaylee and Dustin press the point that buying American carries weight. It supports a local community, and it keeps money from going overseas to fund people who do not like us. They talk about suppressors and the NFA, government overreach in states like Colorado, the military's Barry Amendment, the pull of instant gratification, lifetime warranties, and the appeal of long range and rimfire shooting. Every Cole-TAC product ships with the sewer's name signed on it, the connection Dustin wants customers to feel.
Links
Questions this episode answers
How did Cole-TAC get started, and why did the company move from New Hampshire to South Dakota?
Dustin and his wife started Cole-TAC in their spare bedroom in New Hampshire in 2015 after he destroyed a store-bought suppressor cover and his wife sewed a better one. The operation later moved from New Hampshire to South Dakota, a relocation that began in 2021 and took almost two years.
Why does Dustin say sewing is close to a dead industry in the United States, and how does Cole-TAC find workers?
Dustin calls domestic sewing a nearly dead trade because almost everyone Cole-TAC hires arrives with little or no sewing experience. The company trains its people from zero and works to turn them into craftsmen.
Where do Cole-TAC's product ideas come from, and how does the company decide which customer requests to build?
Many Cole-TAC products are born from real field use, like the Rifle Guardian rain cover that came out of a soaked long range match in North Carolina and the Brain Bucket bag built for a SWAT team in Georgia. Most customer requests never become products because design time is expensive.
What happened to American manufacturing during COVID, and how did Cole-TAC respond?
When supply chains from Asia shut off, Cole-TAC designed and made over 60,000 hospital gowns in a couple of months. Dustin's takeaway is that the country still leans heavily on overseas labor that is significantly cheaper.
Does buying American-made gear actually matter, and what does voting with your dollar mean in practice?
Dustin and host Kaylee argue that buying American carries real weight because it supports a local community and keeps money from going overseas. Every Cole-TAC product ships with the sewer's name signed on it to make that connection tangible.
Why are suppressors regulated under the National Firearms Act, and what is changing for buyers?
Suppressors are controlled items under the National Firearms Act (NFA), which has historically meant long approval waits. Dustin notes that wait times for suppressor approvals have been falling.
How does Cole-TAC make custom suppressor covers at production scale?
Cole-TAC automated its custom suppressor cover process so a website order feeds patterns straight to a CNC cutter and down to the sewers. That lets the company keep a custom touch while still producing at scale.
What is the appeal of long range shooting, and how can someone get into it without a huge range?
Dustin, who competes in long range matches, points to the draw of long range, rimfire, and air rifle shooting. Rimfire and air rifles let new shooters practice the fundamentals without needing a large range.
Chapters
- 00:00 — Welcome and meet Dustin from Cole-TAC
- 00:19 — From a spare bedroom in 2015 to 29 employees
- 03:03 — Suppressors, the NFA, and falling wait times
- 06:42 — Expanding the product line from field use
- 09:45 — Why US sewing is a dead industry
- 10:41 — COVID, supply chains, and 60,000 hospital gowns
- 15:18 — Government overreach and the slippery slope
- 19:00 — Moving across the country to South Dakota
- 23:02 — Leaving Ruger for sewn-goods manufacturing
- 27:13 — Deciding which customer requests to build
- 32:34 — Custom suppressor covers at production scale
- 35:50 — Voting with your dollar and buying American
- 44:01 — Instant gratification and being social
- 46:46 — Long range, rimfire, and air rifles
- 50:53 — Where to find Cole-TAC and sign off
About the guest
Dustin is the co-founder of Cole-TAC, which he started with his wife in their spare bedroom in New Hampshire in 2015 after he destroyed a suppressor cover and his wife sewed a better one. He is originally from Wisconsin and worked for Ruger in New Hampshire, calling it his dream job, before going full-time on the company. Cole-TAC moved its operations from New Hampshire to South Dakota, a process started in 2021 that took almost two years, and now has 29 employees making hunting, shooting, and tactical gear for civilians, law enforcement, and military. He competes in long range matches and is a Gun Owners of America life member, which he says he bought in 2016 or 2017. [Guest's full name not stated in the episode; spelled "Dustin" per host introduction. VERIFY]
Key quotes
"We started it in our spare bedroom in New Hampshire back in 2015, kind of by accident." — Dustin
"And her comment was, I could have made something so much better for less." — Dustin
"Sewing, in my opinion, is pretty much dead. It's a dead industry." — Dustin
"Every person that we have here that's sewing for us either came in with very little or no sewing experience. We're training them from zero." — Dustin
"We ended up making over 60,000 hospital gowns in just a matter of a couple months." — Dustin
"I'm not advocating for the government to step in there because every time they try to fix something, they make it worse." — Dustin
"When you vote with your dollar for an American made product that supports the second Amendment, you're doing more than just getting the product that you want." — Kaylee
"We learned it, but have we listened to it?" — Dustin
"I think we just need to bring back American manufacturing and bring back American jobs and take pride in that." — John
Transcripts
Welcome to Gun Owners of America State of the second podcast.
Speaker A:I'm Kaylee.
Speaker B:And I'm John.
Speaker B:And today we're here with Dustin from ColdTech.
Speaker B:How are you, my friend?
Speaker C:Outstanding.
Speaker C:I'm glad to be here.
Speaker C:Thanks for having me.
Speaker B:Well, thank you for being on.
Speaker B:Can you give the folks a little bit of backstory about your company and what you guys all do?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C: room in New Hampshire back in: Speaker C:So I got into suppressed shooting and wanted to suppress cover, so I bought somebody's cover, and the first day out, I actually destroyed it.
Speaker C:And so then I brought it to my wife, who's a sewing wizard.
Speaker C:I'm like, hey, can you fix this?
Speaker C:And then I had to confess how much I spent on it and got in trouble for that.
Speaker C:And her comment was, I could have made something so much better for less.
Speaker C:And so we tinkered around, made one for myself, and then at the time, I was working for Ruger out in New Hampshire, and so I made it for myself.
Speaker C:My buddies at the shop saw it, and they're like, hey, can you make me one?
Speaker C:So, all right, yeah, let's do that.
Speaker C:It's supposed to just be, like we said, we'll put up a small website, just as, like, a side hobby business for my wife.
Speaker C:And here we are now, nine years later.
Speaker C:We have hundreds of different products.
Speaker C:We moved all operations from New Hampshire to South Dakota.
Speaker C: Actually, back in: Speaker C:And we have 29 employees at this point, growing and manufacturing all sorts of different hunting, shooting, and tactical gear for both civilians, law enforcement, and military members.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:The mentality of, anything you can do, I can do better.
Speaker A:And your wife just coming out and just crushing it immediately.
Speaker A:And here you are a few years later with a whole team behind you and supporting.
Speaker A:That's pretty awesome.
Speaker A:If that's not the American dream, I really don't know what is.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:No, it's kind of wild to think about, you know, the.
Speaker C:The route that we took and the path that we got there.
Speaker C:You know, it.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's like kind of that.
Speaker C:That dream in it, but it's.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's because we have a team now, and we can actually get, like, the volumes that we're doing now.
Speaker C:What.
Speaker C:What used to scare us when it was just my wife and I, you know, oh, my goodness, we have.
Speaker C:We have eight covers to make this week.
Speaker C:And it was like, you know, terrifying.
Speaker C:How are we going to get this done?
Speaker C:And now, I mean, we're doing hundreds and hundreds and that.
Speaker C:And it still baffles me.
Speaker C:I wonder how many spreads are getting transferred every day because they were making covers and it's just, I don't know where they're going, but they're going to customers, I guess.
Speaker A:It's, it's hopefully just the start.
Speaker A:And you know, we really want to see, you know, suppressors, you know, come out of the NFA and we want to see the complete abolishment of the nfa.
Speaker A:And I can't wait for the day that you can just go and purchase your suppressor and be able to have fun and practice and do all of the things that good law abiding Americans want to do with their suppressors and hunters and everyone else.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:It's such a, an awesome thing to see the popularity rise because that's how we're going to be able to make this change and win in this fight.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:For sure.
Speaker C:And I mean, we're already seeing it.
Speaker C:I don't know what's happened in the last couple months, but we've seen wait times plummet.
Speaker C:And with that, as soon as wait times plummet, you see this giant influx of people buying suppressors, they don't want to wait for them.
Speaker C:And then inevitably here in a couple months, the wait times are going to climb up again and it's all just stupid.
Speaker C:There shouldn't be a wait time like you said.
Speaker C:And I can't wait for that day because it's, it makes shooting so much more enjoyable both for the shooter and the neighbors and you know, the people around the ranges.
Speaker C:It, I mean, yeah, it's, it's one of those devices that there's no reason it's regulated like it is.
Speaker C:And I can't wait for that day.
Speaker C:Hopefully you guys keep pushing.
Speaker A:Oh, we will definitely keep pushing it.
Speaker A:The suppressor arguments always baffle me because like, you know, OSHA is like, you know, everyone needs a suppressor.
Speaker A:And then the ATF is like, no.
Speaker A:And Congress is like, well, it's in a law, so it's so complicated, you know, and it's like, no, like, first of all, this is a complete infringement on the second Amendment, so it's unconstitutional at its core.
Speaker A:And then you have the power to fix it.
Speaker A:So fix it.
Speaker A:And so I'm hoping that as we continue to push and as popularity continues to rise and as more states are allowing suppressor use for Hunting.
Speaker A:And as more people get into the shooting sports and understand that you need to protect your hearing, we're going to see a continued increase and hopefully that in turn shows people just how important it is to protect and restore our second Amendment.
Speaker C:For sure.
Speaker B:I couldn't have said it better.
Speaker B:You know, it's, it's funny when you talk to like non gun people about the NFA and you try to explain it, they go, well, what do you mean?
Speaker B:Like that doesn't make any sense.
Speaker B:It doesn't make any sense.
Speaker B:Why wouldn't I want to shoot when with quieter things, why wouldn't I want a shorter barrel?
Speaker C:Like I do think, I do think, you know, Hollywood does us no favor because I mean it's only assassins in the movie movies.
Speaker C:So I think that's people's first impression and you know, it would be, it would be nice.
Speaker C:I don't know what's a good like second Amendment pro second Amendment movie that's like, hey, this is awesome.
Speaker C:And we use suppressors.
Speaker C:I don't, I can't think of any off top of my head.
Speaker C:There needs to be one.
Speaker C:Hollywood help us out.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker A:It's putting a lot of trust in those guys.
Speaker C:I know there's no way, there's no way, but.
Speaker A:Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And so your product line, obviously you started out with suppressor covers, that's a huge part of your market.
Speaker A:But you also do some incredible things with, you know, your hunting packs, your Bino packs.
Speaker A:How did you make the decision to expand your product lines and, and how to, how do you kind of come up with the designs that are, are unique and functional?
Speaker C:So a lot it's because I really enjoy shooting and hunting and so it's a lot of times like, hey, I wish I had a widget to do this.
Speaker C:And you know, a good example is our rifle Guardian.
Speaker C:It's a full length rifle rain cover.
Speaker C:And it came about because I was at a Guardian long range match.
Speaker C:If you're familiar with the Guardian, if you're not, you should check them out.
Speaker C:It's a great charity fundraiser long range shooting competition and that's where I suggest everybody starts their long range shooting adventure.
Speaker C:But I was at a match in North Carolina and it was typical North Carolina actually.
Speaker C:Drenching downpour, just gross weather.
Speaker C:And so here I am at the, trying to keep my rifle somewhat dry as we're doing, as we're moving from stage to stage and I have a shooting mat lane across my rifle and I'm looking at him like, come on, we can do you know, I. I have a sewing company.
Speaker C:We can make something better than that.
Speaker C:And so I. I get home and start cutting and, you know, putting pieces together and sure enough, come up with a rifle guardian, which is, yeah, just a big rain cover for a rifle.
Speaker C:And, you know, so that's.
Speaker C:That's how most of those products come about.
Speaker C:It's because, like, I'm out in the field using it.
Speaker C:And when.
Speaker C:And when I say field, it's competitions, it's hunting, or, you know, we have.
Speaker C:We have professionals out in the field too, who, who, you know, bring us requests.
Speaker C:Some of them.
Speaker C:Our Brain Bucket bag was a request by a SWAT team down in Georgia that wanted a bag to carry their helmets and wanted a little bit different to fit their needs.
Speaker C:So we made it for them, and now we offer it on our website to everybody else, too.
Speaker C:So it's just a lot of either personal experience or trusting the people who we have good working relationships with.
Speaker C:And then, you know, coming up with a way to make the designs actually manufacturable in the usa, which is a weird and hard concept because we're so used to having sewn products for so cheap that coming up with a design that is still competitive and gets the job done, but yet can be manufactured in the US where sewing, in my opinion, is pretty much dead.
Speaker C:It's a dead industry.
Speaker C:And we're.
Speaker C:We have to.
Speaker C:Every person that we have here that's sewing for us either came in with very little or no sewing experience.
Speaker C:We're training them from zero.
Speaker C:And so finding those designs and making it manufacturable is where our strong suit really comes in, I think.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think, you know, it's a sad place in our culture right now that we've almost given up in a lot of ways on buying American.
Speaker A:Everyone just kind of views it as like that necessary evil.
Speaker A:So it's a weird.
Speaker A:It's weird to hear someone that's in that space saying, like, this is a dead industry.
Speaker A:We're having to train everybody if we want to bring this back.
Speaker A:Like, you've got to.
Speaker A:We've got to address the skill issue.
Speaker A:We've got to make a way and we've got to find a path forward, because that's not how.
Speaker A:How things were previously.
Speaker A:And if we lose that piece of American culture, it's not a necessary evil that we're creating.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's just there.
Speaker A:There's no checks and balances.
Speaker A:There's no counter swing.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Well, and.
Speaker C: d in the spring and summer of: Speaker C:We, overnight actually it was over a weekend.
Speaker C:My wife and I, we designed hospital, we designed and got the patterns for a hospital gown.
Speaker C:We ended up making over 60,000 hospital gowns in just a matter of a couple months.
Speaker C: And it was About August of: Speaker C:And they are, they are significantly cheaper.
Speaker C:But like there was four months where we had nothing, nothing in the U.S. and I think, I mean it's, it's, if those, if those supply chains shut off again for a longer period,.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker C:Mean the clothing, we're going to have people running around naked in the streets.
Speaker C:I mean it's, it's, it's that serious because there is, there is no way anybody in the US could even come close to keeping up with the volume that is getting pumped over from there.
Speaker C:Just in this industry.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:It's, you know, congratulations on being able to solve that very real problem and being willing to take on that task.
Speaker A:I don't know that a lot of people would have been willing to shift gears as fast as, as you guys did.
Speaker A:And like I commend you for that because that's, you know, we talk about all the time in the firearms industry of being your, your own first responder.
Speaker A:And, and I, in a, you don't even think about the hospitals needing like those items.
Speaker A:Like you're just, it's an expected thing in our culture now.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:It was kind of funny.
Speaker C:The joke in our shop when we were making them is like, hey guys, we got to get this done.
Speaker C:Granny's running around in the shop or in the hospital with it with her butt hanging out.
Speaker C:So you know, it was, it was tongue in cheek, but it was, it was, I mean, serious too because they just didn't have it.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:Yeah, and part of it too.
Speaker C:And it kind of shows.
Speaker C:I would say yes, we wanted to help, but part of it was out of fear because it was when they were shutting down non essential businesses.
Speaker C:And you know what that meant and you know what, what was considered essential and what was not was just kind of at the government's whim.
Speaker C:And so part of it was I wanted to make sure that we were declared essential so that way our employees could keep working and we could keep, you know, these processes going.
Speaker C:Luckily, New Hampshire stayed fairly good with that and anything firearms related was considered essential and never forced full shutdowns.
Speaker C:But that was not the case across the rest of the country.
Speaker C:And it was kind of scary to see some of those decisions and, and what people bowed down to so quickly.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, it's good to know that the live free or die state, you know, kept, kept things as, kept things open.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And especially when they made the second amendment industry, the firearms industry, essential business.
Speaker A:You know, it should never have had to come down to that, in my personal opinion, of course.
Speaker A:But it is good that we did see so many states and thankfully we were able to lobby the White House to, to do it on the national scale.
Speaker A:But during all of COVID man, what a wild time for all of us.
Speaker A:I remember threatening, not me personally, with goa, the organization, threatening lawsuits in many states and suing many states and counties because they were just not giving, you know, permits.
Speaker A:Like, oh, you know, you're, you're a first time gun owner, you're buying a gun, well, good luck using it because we're not going to allow you to.
Speaker A:Like all of those things were just, it's just massive government overreach and it's, it's what a lesson we had to learn during that time.
Speaker C:We learned it, but have we listened to it?
Speaker C:You know, so this last weekend I was at a match in a rifle match in Pueblo, Colorado and talking to those people in Colorado and some of the stuff that's starting to come down, they're like government overreach.
Speaker C:And I don't know, it's kind of scary to hear what some of the stuff that they're facing with the taxes and assault weapons bans.
Speaker C:And Colorado is just kind of really shifted a lot from the old cowboy mentality of, you know, out in the West.
Speaker C:Just crazy.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, you know, there's definitely some states right now that I think Oregon, we look at Oregon, we look at Illinois, look at Colorado, and we're seeing the things that they're doing, the attacks on the second amendment.
Speaker A:And it, I don't want to say it's shocking because it's not shocking that people in power are doing everything in the world to protect their power and individual liberty threatens that.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, we understand that philosophically.
Speaker A:So I don't want to say it comes as a surprise.
Speaker A:It is interesting to see when you get out of the population centers how disgusted people are by the Legislation that is introduced and passed, but the apathy that can exist in those communities.
Speaker A:And, you know, Goa, we have a definition of what a gun rights activist is, and it's someone who takes personal responsibility, not only in the use of their firearms, but in the defense of their right to own them.
Speaker A:And that has to be the mantra that each individual carries.
Speaker A:Even if you're in a blue state, even if you're a state that people want to write off as lost, you still have a voice, and these are your constitutionally protected rights.
Speaker A:And so the worst thing that we can do as individuals is stay silent.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Well, and I think even if you're not into firearms, just if they can do that to the one amendment, what stops them from any of the others?
Speaker C:And that's.
Speaker C:That's the part that I wish we could all rally behind is, you know, keeping.
Speaker C:Keeping that constitution sacred and whole is absolutely vital.
Speaker C:You know, never mind if you're, if you, you know, you like going to the ranger, you like guns at all, if that's not your thing, fine.
Speaker C:You know, but like, just the government overreach should scare everybody.
Speaker B:Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
Speaker B:I mean, our founding fathers made the first amendment, gave us the right to free speech and be able to speak our mind.
Speaker B:And right after that, they said, hey, we need to protect this.
Speaker B:So they gave us the right to keep him bear arms.
Speaker B:And, you know, the.
Speaker B:They were very wise men.
Speaker B:And those 27 words are very, very outlined to go, cool, this is what it is.
Speaker B:And they like to take those words and chop them up and try to take certain parts and they try to attack on that.
Speaker B:Which the founding fathers said, no, this is what this means.
Speaker B:This is what we need to do without the second.
Speaker B:What else falls?
Speaker B:Do we lose our fourth Amendment?
Speaker B:Do we lose our fifth Amendment?
Speaker B:Do we lose everything in between?
Speaker B:And that's just a slippery slope that I don't want to see happen.
Speaker C:Right,.
Speaker B:So you guys started off in New Hampshire, and now you've moved to South Dakota.
Speaker B:What was the mindset about moving across.
Speaker C:The country 1,823 miles away?
Speaker C:Not that I had to do that drive way too many times.
Speaker C:So we were in a really remote part of New Hampshire, and it was geographically isolated, is the way how I like to put it.
Speaker C:Where, you know, there was a.
Speaker C: The town itself is: Speaker C: e town that we started in was: Speaker C:In it.
Speaker C:But the town that we were operating out of was 3,000 people.
Speaker C:And like the next biggest town of, you know, 15,000 people.
Speaker C:It's, it's only 30 miles away, but it's an hour drive.
Speaker C:Just because New England roads, if you've ever been out there, I mean, it's the, I think the cows and goats actually plotted out the courses and we just followed those trails and put highways there.
Speaker C:So there's nothing straight, nothing flat.
Speaker C:So it's hard to find enough people.
Speaker C:So it's like, all right, we're going to start looking at another place.
Speaker C:And the first two requirements were business friendly and gun friendly.
Speaker C:I mean, actually in the US There's a lot of sewing that happens in either New York or Southern California, but there's no way both from a business and a gun friendly state we would even consider it.
Speaker C:So it was, where can we keep growing our business and hire enough people?
Speaker C:And actually Rapid City is a really, I don't want to say too loud because we don't want to have, we don't want to have taken over too much.
Speaker C:But it's this perfect size of, it's big enough where we have a lot of services.
Speaker C:You know, it's 80,000 people in the city and within the general commuting distance, it's 110,000.
Speaker C:So it's big enough where we can get things done, we can hire people, but yet it's not so big that I hate my life.
Speaker C:So I can get out to the Black Hills, get out to the prairie, go shooting, go hunting.
Speaker C:And then to see, you know, some of the things that are happening with the Second Amendment out here just 10 miles down the road from us.
Speaker C:They, they're, they broke ground on it and they're pushing it.
Speaker C:They're.
Speaker C:They're pushing forward with it as one of the bigger gun ranges that's in the country that's getting built right now.
Speaker C:And it's really exciting to see that.
Speaker C:And just being in a place where, you know, both business and firearms are respected and appreciated.
Speaker C:It's nice.
Speaker C:And not that New Hampshire wasn't New Hampshire, especially, especially when you compare it to the other New England states.
Speaker C:It's freaking awesome.
Speaker C:It just sucks that you're constantly getting pushed on by those other states that have no interest in dealing with you and actually actively seek to make you go away.
Speaker B:Yeah, we were just up in South Dakota for Pheasant Fest not too long ago, and it was an experience.
Speaker B:I think I like the state of South Dakota a little bit more now.
Speaker C:We publicly advertise for people to come to our state and kill our state bird.
Speaker C:I mean, what other state does that?
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker B:Yeah, I heard the pheasant hunting is fantastic.
Speaker B:That's all I know.
Speaker C:Gets wild at times where, I mean, it just starts raining pheasants.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Gone out several times.
Speaker C:I go get out every several times a year.
Speaker C:And every time when you get into some of those groups, it's just you can't keep your gun reloaded fast enough.
Speaker C:You're just, it's a great time.
Speaker C:If you haven't done it, I highly recommend it.
Speaker B:So you said that you used to work at Ruger.
Speaker B:What was the transition like from going from firearms to a higher margin product like apparel?
Speaker C:Okay, so here we go.
Speaker C:Here in the US it's not a higher margin.
Speaker C:So apparel is.
Speaker C:When you import it with slave labor, it.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's definitely different.
Speaker C:But like a lot of the principles and I would.
Speaker C:And I've, you know, I still keep in touch with a lot of my, my co workers and, and friends at Ruger.
Speaker C:A lot of the stuff that we're doing here as far as manufacturing and design for manufacturing, it's all those things that I learned while I was there and that really helps with us making a competitive product.
Speaker C:Yeah, I think I learned a ton there as far as how to make stuff.
Speaker C:And it all applies whether you're, whether you're assembling a rifle or if you're assembling, you know, a fanny pack.
Speaker C:It's, it's the principles of like let's set up a process and be efficient about it is the same and just we have different machines and, and then we have different, I guess, skill levels and so and that's, I would say one of the harder parts is with firearms manufacturing.
Speaker C:It's all CNC.
Speaker C:You know, it's.
Speaker C:CNCs are making those rifles and sure, you have to set it up and yes, you have to monitor them.
Speaker C:But like with sewing, it's still.
Speaker C:We automate as much as we can and we have some.
Speaker C:But just the nature of sewn products because they're not rigid, you can't grab onto them like you can like a receiver, you know, there's not places you can locate on the.
Speaker C:It requires someone at the end like putting two pieces of fabric together and manually guiding it through machines.
Speaker C:And so it's, it's definitely more human touching.
Speaker C:You know, there, there's a lot of, of hand work that goes in.
Speaker C:It's still.
Speaker C:We really work hard at developing our sores into Craftsmen, because it takes that craftsman touch to get it to close up and look good at the end.
Speaker C:So, yeah, it was definitely a transition.
Speaker C:And, you know, it was definitely scary in the beginning because, you know, you're always told, oh, my goodness, you know, find a.
Speaker C:Find a good company, find a good career.
Speaker C:Stay with them.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And Ruger was my dream job.
Speaker C:I moved.
Speaker C:I'm originally from Wisconsin.
Speaker C:I moved out to New Hampshire to go work for them.
Speaker C:So I'm a. I'm a gun nut, and that's what I love to do.
Speaker C:And so there's definitely, like, a leap of faith, like, oh, my goodness, what am I doing?
Speaker C:But, you know, they were.
Speaker C:They were really good to me and taught me a ton, and I can't thank them enough.
Speaker A:I love the fact that you come from the shooter perspective, the shooter mindset, the hunter perspective, the hunting mindset, the competition shooter, the competition mindset.
Speaker A:You live the community, right?
Speaker A:You're not pigeonholed into one bucket.
Speaker A:And I think it shows in how you design and manufacture.
Speaker A:But I think that it.
Speaker A:It also, from a customer perspective, it feels good to know that someone just didn't have an idea one day and was like, hey, I'm gonna make some money off of this.
Speaker A:Like, you're in the community and you get that feedback, right?
Speaker A:So I think that it's really cool.
Speaker C:The last match, you know, I said I was in Pueblo, Colorado.
Speaker C:I had three products that we've been working on for a while with me that.
Speaker C:And it snowed 2 to 3ft of snow, like, a couple days before the match.
Speaker C:It was just gross, gross weather, but it makes it fun and memorable.
Speaker C:So, you know, let's go and let's do it.
Speaker C:But I had three different products that we've been working on for a while, and I was there using them, testing them, trying them out, talking with other, you know, with all the other people at the matches, kind of getting their thoughts on it.
Speaker C:And, you know, we've refined a little bit on the one now because of this.
Speaker C:The other two, I think, are pretty close to launching if we can find a hole in our production schedule.
Speaker C:And so, you know, it's.
Speaker C:I think that helps a ton.
Speaker C:Is.
Speaker C:It's not just.
Speaker C:It's not some big boardroom where someone's looking at, like, a market research survey and says, you know, oh, our customers say we need to come out with a widget that does this.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:I'm.
Speaker C:You know, we're actually out there.
Speaker C:And it's not just me.
Speaker C:We've got other Employees who are going out and about these events.
Speaker C:And we really try to listen to the customers and learn from our own personal experience.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, you brought up the board, you know, meeting with our customers, say, you need this.
Speaker B:You get probably hundreds of requests from customers for certain things.
Speaker B:What makes you decide, hey, that's a good idea?
Speaker B:And hey, you know, no, we're not going to do that.
Speaker B:We're not going to touch that.
Speaker C:Well, I mean, so yeah, we get, yeah, we get bombarded with requests and it really, it comes down to, you know, what we think the potential is and where, because usually there isn't, there isn't anything that we're solving that is like, it's not out there.
Speaker C:We're taking a problem that already has a solution, but it's, it can definitely be improved on.
Speaker C:And I think it's looking at like, okay, how, how much of an impact can we make with, with our design efforts?
Speaker C:You know, if it's just a marginal improvement, as much as we want to do everything, we just kind of have to pick and choose because honestly, design, design, time, design work, it's really, it's really expensive as far as both time and money.
Speaker C:And then so it's, it's really just seeing where we can have the most impact with, with that, that certain issue.
Speaker C:And also looking at, you know, what, what niche does it go against?
Speaker C:You know, we do a lot with competitive long range shooting, which is a weird little niche within the firearms industry.
Speaker C:You know, is this something that can only apply there or can we also apply it to the hunting world and trying to find that or, you know, we do a lot, like I said, with military and law enforcement.
Speaker C:Is it something that can carry across multiple different disciplines?
Speaker C:You know, that, that also kind of plays into that and, and then also looking at like if, if it's just going to be, if it's already being taken over by, by imports.
Speaker C:You know, everybody wants a range bag.
Speaker C:Everybody, you know, I want a range bag.
Speaker C:What do you want your range bag to do differently than what's already out there?
Speaker C:And that's kind of, we haven't come up with.
Speaker C:You know, we have range bags that we've made, but none that we've really released.
Speaker C:Just because the, the Delta in what's out there versus what we want to do isn't great enough to really justify putting a ton of effort into it.
Speaker C:So yeah, it's, it's kind of, it's a tougher that I would say that's a, that's a really tough part of our business.
Speaker C:And actually, my management team and I just this morning kind of had a talking of how we're gonna.
Speaker C:We've got.
Speaker C:We've got a list 40 products deep that are like, all right, we really want to do this.
Speaker C:Like, and we reshuffle those in priority.
Speaker C:And it's.
Speaker C:It's a lot of just asking, asking customers what they think, talking within our group here that says, all right, I think we can have a really good impact and then, you know, just kind of make the.
Speaker C:The best decision and, and move forward.
Speaker B:No, I totally understand, coming from manufacturing previously, the amount of people who are like, well, you need to do this.
Speaker B:I'm like, okay, cool.
Speaker B:We could custom do it, but you need to order so many units.
Speaker B:Well, me and 10 of my friends will buy it, right?
Speaker C:Oh, my goodness.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And packs.
Speaker C:We get requests to do all sorts of different packs.
Speaker C:This pack right here, we sat there and spent hundreds of hours of R and D time getting all those parts and pieces together and making sure they all fit.
Speaker C:And then after that, it's okay.
Speaker C:How can we make it so all the parts and pieces always fit together?
Speaker C:And how can we design it in a way so it's easy for the sewing side, you know, for the production side.
Speaker C:And like, you can't do that if you're just going to do 10 of something.
Speaker C:And, you know, especially when it comes to more complex geometry like that.
Speaker C:And so, yeah, as much as we want to help out you and your 10 friends, like, the amount of work that it takes, it just.
Speaker C:It doesn't make sense.
Speaker B:No, I, I'm 100% on that one.
Speaker C:Yeah, but, but.
Speaker C:But at the same time, too, you know, so our.
Speaker C:Our biggest item that we still manufacture, one of our biggest items on our.
Speaker C:On our lineup is custom suppressor covers.
Speaker C:You know, when.
Speaker C:When you go to our website, you pick out the colors you want, you put in your length and diameter, and we make it to.
Speaker C:To that spec.
Speaker C:And part of it is because we've automated that whole process in between ordering and once it gets to the source, mainly developing those patterns, you know, when.
Speaker C:When they put in the length and diameter, if you put in 7.51 for the length and the next person puts in 7.52, the computer makes two completely different patterns for that because it just feeds from our website into our.
Speaker C:We have a big CNC cutting machine, and it stretches the pattern accordingly.
Speaker C:It writes down the order number onto the.
Speaker C:Onto the fabric.
Speaker C:So that way, when it gets down to the sewers, it's basically a Large scale production run but it's with a custom touch to it.
Speaker C:So there are ways to do custom work but it just, you have to be creative with it.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean that's really cool that you still have like the custom, the, the customization because a lot of people choose to go in a different route for that.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:So Cult tech has been growing year on year on year.
Speaker A: ndustry partner of ours since: Speaker C:Well, yeah, I.
Speaker C:Industry partner, sure.
Speaker C:But like personal, I don't know.
Speaker C: bought my Life membership in: Speaker A:Well thank you for that.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:That's amazing.
Speaker A:Great plug for our life memberships.
Speaker A:Get yours@gun owners.org hey.
Speaker C:Brought to you by gun owners.
Speaker A:But no, I mean it's been so great to watch your all's growth and to see the long term success and I think that you know, in the next three, five, ten years from now the product offering that you're going to have is going to be bigger and, and better and what.
Speaker A:But what I love the most is like everything traces back to the, the core mission and the core value and you're not having to compromise your morals to purchase something.
Speaker A:And we might not think of it in that realm, but we talk a lot about voting and voting with your feet and voting with your dollar.
Speaker A:And when you vote with your dollar for an American made product that supports the second Amendment, you're doing more than just getting the product that you want.
Speaker A:You are adding value in the values that you identify with.
Speaker A:And it may take a little bit longer.
Speaker A:You may have to save up, you know, for a couple extra weeks to get the product.
Speaker A:But it's a, it's that personal responsibility and that personal choice that really moves the needle long term and allows us to add back the, the trades to add back the fortitude of, of industries within the firearms space that we're losing.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:And outside of them.
Speaker A:Right, right.
Speaker A:And so it's an, it's incredibly valuable that we understand that we have more power than just the ballot box.
Speaker A:We have more power than just writing and sending an email to a legislator.
Speaker A:Those are very powerful tools.
Speaker A:But we also have the ability to vote with our dollar.
Speaker C:Oh for sure.
Speaker C:And you know, that's one thing that I think we really stick close to the firearms community because I think they do as a whole value the American flag being put on products and understand that and are willing to pay a little bit more.
Speaker C:And you know, when you get that item, you know, it's for us at least it's a lifetime warranty.
Speaker C:So you buy it and we're taking care of you for life.
Speaker C:No matter how obnoxious some of those customer service requests are.
Speaker C:You know, we've had some pretty wild ones, and we just, we honor it because, you know, it's the right thing to do and it's, it's the way how we'd operate and you know, and kind of like what you said.
Speaker C:So, like, all of our products, when they go out, we have our ladies sit there.
Speaker C:And I shouldn't say ladies, because we have guys, too.
Speaker C:We have our sewers.
Speaker C:They sign their name on every little thing that they get done.
Speaker C:So Marlena made it, made that rifle case.
Speaker C:It's like, when you get it, it's.
Speaker C:We're trying to have that connection with the customer saying, hey, you know, this is.
Speaker C:This is made by, you know, someone here in the US who is.
Speaker C:Who is trying to send their kids to, you know, dance recital, lesson, you know, dance lessons, or, you know, has.
Speaker C:Has.
Speaker C:Is going to go eat at the local restaurant here in town.
Speaker C:And so it's, It's.
Speaker C:It's helping out.
Speaker C:Not just, you know, that.
Speaker C:That.
Speaker C:How do I get to that?
Speaker C:It's not just, you know, you're not just buying an item and getting benefit from it.
Speaker C:You're also helping your local community or, you know, at least within the US and it's not just.
Speaker C:It's not going overseas to fund people who really don't like us.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And beyond that, you know, it's.
Speaker A:It's always been very.
Speaker A:I don't know how to say this politely, so I'm just going to say it outright.
Speaker A:It's always struggle to understand the cognitive dissonance, because when you are importing something that is made with slave labor or you are importing something from someone that hates our rights, hates America, like, you're part of the problem.
Speaker A:Like, there's, There's.
Speaker A:You're.
Speaker A:You're allowing them to continue the, the practices, whether you wish to be a willing participant or not.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:You are to.
Speaker A:To some degree.
Speaker A:And I think for a lot of people that the education part is the hardest part.
Speaker A:Um, Yep.
Speaker A:You know, we're.
Speaker A:We're partnered with nine Line.
Speaker A:We had them on the podcast, and they were talking about the, the testing that they do on cotton because of some sketchy practices that they found from some of the people that they were getting.
Speaker A:And it's an educational thing that we don't think about as consumers.
Speaker A:Anymore, everything is, you get it, you use it, you toss it, and not.
Speaker A:I'm buying this for a purpose and this is going to be with me for a long time.
Speaker A:And so when you get those valuable pieces like yours that have that lifetime warranty and it is manufactured correctly and it is in the US and you have that personal responsibility, you get to take pride in the purchase versus just that instant gratification.
Speaker A:And it's, it's two different levels, it's two different playing fields and we shouldn't try to, to make them equal.
Speaker C:The military has kind of set up a system where it's called the Barry Amendment, where if you're manufacturing sewn products for the military, they must be, the materials must be sourced in the U.S. the labor must be sourced in the U.S. and you know, it has to be us made because when they saw all the sewing going overseas in the 80s and 90s, they said, hey, we're gonna have a problem with just uniform manufacturing.
Speaker C:We won't have enough uniforms to make for our soldiers.
Speaker C:And so they made that choice then.
Speaker C:But as far as the private consumer side, that has not happened.
Speaker C:And I'm not advocating for the government to step in there because every time they try to fix something, they make it worse.
Speaker C:But I want consumers to make that choice on their own and realize, hey, if you have a problem, like we have a phone number, when you call in, it's going to be myself or two other people answering the phone, you know, and we're going to, we're going to talk through this issue or if you have a question, you know someone's going to answer who can, can actually help you out.
Speaker C:And, and you know that that's something that you can't get when it's some of these other places where you're just like you said, instant gratification.
Speaker C:It shows up on a boat and we just distribute it across the U.S.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think it's a level of craftsmanship too.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that, that can't be understated.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because I think we're missing a lot of that.
Speaker A:You know, things aren't passed down anymore.
Speaker A:You know, everyone is, is so used to the two day shipping, like instant everything and.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:And, and then they complain about how fast paced life is and it's like, well, you know, yeah, you can't have it both ways.
Speaker A:And it does take a certain amount of sacrifice, but it's so worth it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think we just need to bring back American manufacturing and bring back American jobs and take pride in that.
Speaker B:I Mean, this the norm now with this instant gratification.
Speaker B:We've seen it across a ton of spaces where if your product isn't available within days of them ordering it, you'll get 12 emails going, hey, where's my stuff?
Speaker B:Or hey, why is this not there?
Speaker B:Or what is going on?
Speaker B:I mean, you guys doing custom suppressor covers?
Speaker B:I'm guessing there's a wait period on it.
Speaker B:A little bit of time to get everything done.
Speaker B:You're probably receiving emails within 48 hours going, hey, where's my stuff?
Speaker C:So on our customs suppressor cover checkout, there's a box that you check saying, hey, I understand there's a two to three week lead time.
Speaker C:I have the data that shows at 12 days.
Speaker C:I don't know what it is.
Speaker C:12 Days, the number of emails, it's parabolic, just starts skyrocketing on how many.
Speaker C:You know, hey, just a status update.
Speaker C:Where's my order?
Speaker C:How's everything going?
Speaker C:And so we act, we, we say two to three weeks.
Speaker C:Right now we're sitting at like eight, nine days, which is pretty good.
Speaker C:And it, we really push hard for that, mainly so we don't waste the time.
Speaker C:One, we want to make our customers happy.
Speaker C:But two, like, the business side of it, I don't want my people answering email saying it's gonna be another three days.
Speaker C:You know, it just.
Speaker C:All sudden they get the shipping notification.
Speaker C:They're like, oh, cool.
Speaker C:So, yeah, that's the instant gratification definitely is tough.
Speaker C:And I think, you know, eight to nine days on a custom made item.
Speaker C:I hope most people would understand that.
Speaker C:That's, that's pretty dang good.
Speaker A:That's really good.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's really good.
Speaker B:Well, I ordered, I ordered a holster one time and they were like, yeah, it's about 12 weeks out.
Speaker B:I think I waited until about 20 weeks ago.
Speaker B:Hey, just checking in on this, making sure we're good.
Speaker C:You guys so live.
Speaker B:Yeah, you're still making stuff.
Speaker B:Yeah, but that's, and Kaylee put it right, is that, you know, we've.
Speaker B:Everything has become instant and everything.
Speaker B:You know, the fast pace of life, people are complaining how fast it is.
Speaker B:It's like, well, we kind of set it up that way.
Speaker B:You know, we've got fast food and you've got delivery apps to your house for food and, and groceries and everything.
Speaker B:And you know, and I mean, you, you saw that a lot during COVID where a lot of people were taking advantage of that and using it.
Speaker B:But now it's kind of like there are days where I'm like, cool.
Speaker B:I don't have to leave the house, I don't have to be a human.
Speaker B:But at the same time now I'm like, I'm being very antisocial.
Speaker B:So I want to be social.
Speaker B:Like human beings are social creatures and we need to socialize with stuff.
Speaker B:So I just, I want to get.
Speaker B:Say this out loud to people is like, go be social.
Speaker B:Go join the second amendment hobby and go be social with people and have fun and go to the range.
Speaker B:And that's a big part of our hobby or the second amendment in total, is being social, going out with like minded individuals to go have fun.
Speaker B:I mean, you just went and did a long range competition, which if you haven't done long range, highly recommend.
Speaker B:It's probably the most fun you can have.
Speaker B:But to go out and do that, I mean, it gives you a chance to talk to people who are like minded, learn stuff, try out new equipment, all the above, you know, that's, it's a good time.
Speaker C:Yeah, well, and I would say my plug towards long range, why I really like long range shooting is I'm kind of a geek.
Speaker C:And so like there's a blend of science in there.
Speaker C:I mean, trying to fit all the ballistics calculations, all the, the re.
Speaker C:The work that goes into reloading.
Speaker C:Reloading is like a subset skill within that.
Speaker C:And it's not just like, hey, how cheap can I make it?
Speaker C:It's not like people go bananas for trying to get every aspect of that bullet and that powder and that primer seated just perfectly.
Speaker C:That, you know, it's, it's this weird rabbit hole that seems like it has a bunch of side channels and, and there's enough science in there that it intrigues me.
Speaker C:And, and I really like, like learning things and trying things out and exploring and it's a good place for that.
Speaker C:Long range shooting is a great place for that kind of mind.
Speaker B:Oh yeah, you don't understand the dope of mean.
Speaker B: Hit at hitting: Speaker B: a couple years back and I hit: Speaker B:And the dopamine hit that I had, I was like, oh my God, this is the coolest thing ever.
Speaker B:And then you can, yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker B: Because you're adjusting at: Speaker B:There's so much math going into it that you're just like, okay, okay.
Speaker B:So I got windage and I got elevation.
Speaker B:I got to make sure I'm right.
Speaker B:I'VE got my Strylock app open and I'm putting in all my numbers, making sure we're good.
Speaker B:Yeah, the, the nerd in me came out and I was like, this is the most fun I've ever had at the gun range in my life.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's, it's, it's a, it's a ton of fun.
Speaker C:Kaylin, when are you going to shoot long range?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, goodness.
Speaker A:Well, I think that's a really good question.
Speaker A:I've only ever shot long range once.
Speaker A:I've never done a competition with it.
Speaker A:It's definitely something I want to do.
Speaker A:I live in East Tennessee.
Speaker A:The problem with East Tennessee is we have a lot of mountains.
Speaker A:So what we consider a long range range in my area versus what other people consider long range is slightly more difficult.
Speaker A:I live like in the mountains.
Speaker A:In the mountains.
Speaker A:So it does require some, some driving.
Speaker C:Let's see.
Speaker C:Well, but it doesn't have to.
Speaker C:So the other thing that's I think taking a ton of popularity that I, I think is neat is long range rimfire and even air rifle stuff.
Speaker C:I mean the amount of, it's the same principles.
Speaker C: It's just Instead of a: Speaker C:In fact, I don't think it's funnier when you're sitting there, you shoot a little.22 and you can, you can see the bullet going through the air and hit a plate out at 300 and you could only, you could barely hear it go against the plate.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, so just dial it back and you can still have fun with it.
Speaker A:Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker B:But I've seen air guns go out very far.
Speaker B:So good.
Speaker C:Air guns are crazy.
Speaker B:So a good friend of mine, Ton Jones, used to work for Air Force Air Guns.
Speaker B:He was telling me about a competition.
Speaker B:He was going, he went to go sight in and the field that he was in had Danny lines in it with the little white puffers.
Speaker B:And he goes, that was annoying me.
Speaker B:So he shot them to get them off.
Speaker B:And the range officer came over, goes, ton, I know you're sighting in and having fun, but you gotta stop doing that because they would just puff.
Speaker B:And then he walked over to the table.
Speaker B:Tell me the story.
Speaker B: s the longest target was like: Speaker B:And he goes, I can do it in three shots.
Speaker B:And they're like, no, you can't.
Speaker B:He goes, okay.
Speaker B: And he hit: Speaker B:He's like, I took one, it went low.
Speaker B:I took another one, it went high.
Speaker B:I figured it out and I shot it.
Speaker B:And I'm like, you have more fun than I do.
Speaker A:That's really cool.
Speaker B:Jealous?
Speaker C:No, they're, They're.
Speaker C:It's pretty impressive what, what you can do with air rifles now.
Speaker C:And, and it's the other, I guess, neat thing about air rifles that I kind of giggle about is there's no laws on them.
Speaker C:You can just have them delivered to your house.
Speaker C:And like, people are taking big game in Africa with these things now.
Speaker C:I mean, they're.
Speaker C:They're pretty darn serious, but it's the best kept secret.
Speaker C:I know.
Speaker B:Don't.
Speaker B:You said the quiet parts out loud.
Speaker B:You can't.
Speaker B:You said it.
Speaker B:Now the government's gonna want to.
Speaker C:Good luck.
Speaker C:Good luck.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker C:They'll.
Speaker C:They'll mess it up.
Speaker A:We'll fight them on.
Speaker A:It's fine.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:Well, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker A:Give everyone your socials where they could find you, how to order product, all that fun stuff.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So everything's on our website, coltak.com and we're fairly active on Instagram and Facebook and try to post videos on YouTube here and there.
Speaker C:We do have a silly TikTok that's mainly just shenanigans around the shop.
Speaker C:That's a whole political.
Speaker C:I'm still torn on that one, but I don't know how we manage that one.
Speaker C:And then, yeah, you go on our website, you can check us out there.
Speaker C:If you have any questions, send us an email, give us a call.
Speaker C:Like I said, it's going to be just a small handful of people who will actually answer the phone.
Speaker C:If you do, call in and we'll be more than happy to help you out.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:Thank you so much for joining us again.
Speaker A:It was a great episode.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yes, great.
Speaker C:Thanks for having me.
Speaker B:All right, guys, make sure to, like, share and subscribe.
Speaker B:Hit the little bell for notification.
Speaker B:Leave a five star review on all podcasting apps.
Speaker B:Make sure to go to goals.gun owners.org to sign up for our Goa Convention coming up in August.
Speaker B:We will see you there.
