We develop recipes for a living: over three dozen cookbooks, countless magazine and internet articles, and 20,000+ copywritten and published recipes. Here's a look inside what we do on an almost daily basis.

Let's face it: Most recipes are developed in an existing frame--a braise, a cake, a short crust, a roast, a pastry cream. You accept the frame, then begin to work inside it to create something new.

In this episode, we're going to take on the hypothetical of developing a trifle, a layered cake-and-custard dessert. We've also got a one-minute cooking tip. And we'll tell you what's making us happy in food this week.

Here are the segments for this episode of COOKING WITH BRUCE & MARK:

[01:04] Our one-minute cooking tip: buy great butter for toast but supermarket butter for baking.

[03:21] How we develop a recipe. We're making up our own trifle, showing you the thought process and creativity it takes to create a new recipe.

[23:45] What’s making us happy in food this week? Ben & Jerry’s dairy-free Cherry Garcia and a kale salad with a nutritional yeast vinaigrette.

Hey, I'm Bruce Weinstein, and this is the podcast

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Cooking with Bruce and Mark.

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mark: And I am Mark Scarbrough, and

I am, yes, back on this podcast.

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My leg is officially out of a cast.

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It's out of a splint.

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Well, that was a long

time before the cast.

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It's Out even of the walking

boot, I am just now in an ankle

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brace and actually walking around.

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So I am back on the podcast with

Bruce and I'm glad to be here.

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In this episode of our podcast,

we're going to do what we always do.

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We're going to have a one minute cooking

tip, which you know, that we always

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give and never do in one minute anyway.

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When it does

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Bruce: this week.

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mark: Oh, maybe we're going to come.

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Up with a recipe.

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Well, not really, but we're going to

talk about how we come up with recipes.

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This is how we work at heart

and how we work to put together

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things to make recipes for the

many books that we have written.

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36 about to publish the 37th,

and we'll tell you what's making

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us happy in food this week.

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So let's get started.

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Bruce: our one minute cooking tips.

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Use great butter for your bread.

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Use standard store

brand butter for baking.

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mark: Oh.

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See how

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Bruce: fast that was?

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mark: Uh, I have no notes.

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No, no notes.

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Perfect.

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No, yes.

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I, I, by the way, I should tell you that,

um, I do love great butter for bread.

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And if you don't know and live in the U.

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S.

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or in Canada, you can get really

great butter like Kerrygold at Costco.

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You don't have to buy a lot of it.

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But.

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It is cheap, and you can freeze the pieces

that you don't use, which is what I do.

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Butter is

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Bruce: very freezable.

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People don't know that.

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mark: So I stock up at Costco for great

butter, and then we just watch store

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sales for just standard butter for baking.

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Bruce: And there's often 15,

20 pounds of it in our freezer

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when they Put it on sale.

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mark: Yep, exactly.

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And, um, yes, of course,

I use unsalted butter.

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There you go.

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Bruce: Um,

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mark: you should have

to use it for baking.

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And I even put it on my bread.

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Although, I will admit that

I salt the butter sometimes

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at night on a piece of bread.

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Bruce: Better that you should

choose how much salt goes on and

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the kind of salt, then let the

butter manufacturer do it for you.

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mark: So see, we didn't do it in a minute.

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There you are.

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OK, before we get to the next

segment of our podcast, let me

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say that we do have a newsletter.

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It hasn't come out in almost two

months because, well, the broken leg.

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But it's now going to

start coming out again.

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If you want to sign up for that

newsletter, you have to go to our

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website, either cookingwithbruceandmark.

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com or just bruceandmark.

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com.

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There's a form there to fill out.

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I know a couple of people have mentioned

this in the Facebook group and they say

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they want to be a part of the newsletter.

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I can't.

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I can't access you from the Facebook

group because I can't ask for your email

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address in a public forum like Facebook.

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It's not fair to you.

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You're going to get spammed to

death when your email appears there.

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So go to our website and there's a

form to fill out and you can then

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receive the newsletter that way.

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And that way I can also make sure that

your email is never captured by a third

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party for spamming and sales purposes.

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Okay, on to the next

segment of the podcast.

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How Do we come up with recipes?

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Bruce: Today we are going to talk

about how we develop a recipe and

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rather than say the process for a

book, I'm going to make it easier.

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Because when the book, it gets

really complicated because it has

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to fit into certain parameters and

it has to fit in a certain place.

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Place in the book and what's the

recipes on either side of it and

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there were so many Restrictions

placed on me in the kitchen.

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mark: I just say that we have written

a lot of books recently that you know

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They've appeared in Target and that

they're they're generated toward instant

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pots and air fryers and Bruce's Constant

complaint here that he's not voicing

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is my problem, the writer's problem,

which I'm always saying to him, can

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I get this ingredient at Walmart?

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Can I get this ingredient

at the Target Superstore?

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And he freaks out because of course

you really can't get preserved Asian

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black beans at your local Walmart.

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So, uh.

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Wow.

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He's talking about the

problems of cookbook writing.

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So,

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Bruce: let's talk about how we decide what

we're going to serve at a dinner party.

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And then, how do I actually create a dish?

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Because, if you know anything about

me at this point, you know I don't

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use recipes when I cook for fun.

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Right.

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When I cook for friends, when I make

dinner for us, I don't use recipes.

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I just, I know the techniques.

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I know how things work.

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I'm a professional at this.

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So how do I create something?

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To be fair, Mark, how many hundreds of

recipes have we come up with things like

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braised beef and stews in our career?

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Oh,

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mark: a lot.

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I mean, I can't even, I couldn't even,

I mean, we, we've way past the 20.

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So I couldn't even come up

with a number there of how many

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Bruce: braises there are.

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Well, we didn't invent braises.

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No.

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No.

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And we didn't invent pan roasted

chicken thighs or pasta sauces

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or sheet cakes or even puddings.

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No.

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mark: Just to say, can

I just stop and say?

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A lot of people don't know

this, but do you know that

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you can't copyright a recipe?

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You can't.

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You can't.

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You can't copyright the ingredient list

of a recipe, so if we come up with,

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let's say, pan roasted chicken thighs

with parsnips and chickpeas, I don't

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know, I'm making this up, we come up

with that, the ingredient list for that

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cannot be copyrighted, nor can the title.

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Because if you could, if you just think

about it through, if you could copyright

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that stuff, then somebody could copyright

the recipe for Toll House chocolate

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cookies or just chocolate chip cookies.

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And they could then claim chocolate

chip cookie is my copyright.

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And you may never make, you may never

make them without paying like that.

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Do you know that the Happy Birthday

to You song is under copyright?

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And so anytime anyone sings that

song in a paid medium, like a series,

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you gotta pay a royalty to it.

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So it's the same problem.

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You can't do that.

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They stop you from being able

to collect a royalty here.

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So there you go.

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You can't copyright a recipe

title or an ingredient list.

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Bruce: So basically, If you think about

every recipe that you've seen in a

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magazine, that you've seen in a cookbook,

that you've eaten in a restaurant,

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it's all a variation on a theme,

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mark: right?

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Mostly.

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Yeah, I mean, if you go really

high end with the molecular

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stuff, it's not Then they start

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Bruce: creating some new things.

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Sure, somebody did create the

idea of vinegar gel bubbles.

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Someone did create the idea of foam.

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Let's do a milk foam,

let's do a bacon fat foam.

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But now that we're doing those

things at home, we're just doing

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variations on that theme, right?

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Well, I

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mark: don't know how many

people are making baked foam

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at home, but okay, sure, yeah.

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Bruce: All it takes is maltodextrin.

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That is all it takes.

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And a hand blender, or

you know, a stick blender.

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mark: But yes, um, it, it, it, it, It is

variations on a theme, but that doesn't

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mean there's not originality out there.

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And in fact, originality

comes inside of the form.

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And let me just say before Bruce is

going to talk, I think about a trifle,

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Bruce: right?

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No, I'm talking about dessert.

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How do we think about it?

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Okay.

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So

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mark: before we talk about that, let

me just say that variations within

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a form is a long artistic tradition.

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I mean, let's face it.

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There are 5, 000 landscape paintings.

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There are hundreds of tragedies.

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Shakespeare wrote many.

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tragedies.

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And inside that form is where

the creativity takes place.

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So you paint a landscape or I'm

currently teaching a class on

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Henry James and Paul Cezanne.

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And Cezanne painted, gosh, literally

Hundreds of still life paintings of

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fruit and particularly apples on tables

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Bruce: falling off tables.

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Yes, they should be

falling off the tables.

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Somehow they're not.

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It's

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mark: this whole problem of perspective.

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Anyway, but you know, he says,

I didn't invent still life.

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Instead, he's taking this very

storied form of art and he's

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being creative inside of it.

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That's a.

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same thing we do in recipes.

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We take a storied technique, a

braise, or here we come, a trifle, and

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then we become creative inside out.

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Bruce: The art comes when those

variations are pitch perfect,

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balanced flavors, balanced textures.

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And it's a way to look at

something old that hasn't been

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looked at this way before.

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I, I would love to think that I am

to food what Cezanne was to art.

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Oh!

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I don't know that I'm ever

going to reach that, but

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mark: I strive.

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You're almost as crabby

as he was sometimes.

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But I

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Bruce: strive for it.

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Well, and I don't, I, well, he took a lot,

he did a lot of paintings of his wife.

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I don't know that, how does that

translate to what I, well, I've

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made a lot of meals for you.

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mark: Okay, sure.

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Okay.

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I still don't.

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really want to be Hortense

Cezanne, but okay, go on.

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So

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Bruce: we're going to have a dinner party.

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This is all hypothetical here.

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We're going to have a dinner party

and it's a thought experiment that

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I want to make a dessert and I

have in mind the idea of a trifle.

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So Mark, why don't you explain

what a classic trifle is?

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Well,

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mark: uh, uh, cause classic trifle

is a cake of some sort, often lady

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fingers, which is a cookie cake, but

a cake of some form that's usually

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soaked in some kind of distilled spirit,

and that's usually a brown spirit.

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Brandy, whiskey, it's usually a

brown distilled spirit of some sort.

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There's always a cream or a custard,

and then there's usually fruit of

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some kind, sometimes preserved or

sometimes fresh, and these things are

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all layered up, usually in a glass bowl

so you can see the layers, and then

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sometimes there's a topping of some

sort, whether it be whipped cream or

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meringue or something like that on top.

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Bruce: Okay, so one of the things that

I don't like, and I know Mark's not

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crazy about, is booze soaked cake.

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I don't like Babazo rum.

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I don't like those things.

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So I know that we're

going to do Can I say why?

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mark: Sure.

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Because I think it destroys the crumb.

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Because I think cake is all about the

textural crumb, and when you soak the

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cake in booze, you get a kind of gummy

consistency, and I just don't like it.

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It's not my favorite thing.

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And thus, oh, don't kill me.

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I really don't like tiramisu.

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It's okay.

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Listen, if I come to your house and you

make tiramisu, I'm going to eat it because

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of course I'm a pig and eat everything.

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But I, I, it's not my favorite thing.

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I'd rather have the cake has that

lovely crumbly texture to it.

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And

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Bruce: the same thing goes for

those British drizzle cakes where

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like a pound cake or a tea cake

comes out of the oven and they.

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pour over a syrup.

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The same thing.

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There are Greek semolina cakes

where honey syrup goes over them.

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I don't like it.

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mark: It's okay to me if it

doesn't soak all the way through.

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Like we have a cake in and

we're way off topic here.

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We have a cake in the vegetarian

dinner parties book that is a vegan

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chocolate ginger cake and we pour

a whiskey syrup over the top of it.

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But that whiskey syrup doesn't

soak very far into that.

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It's a Bundt cake actually

into that Bundt cake.

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And so it, it, It ke it keeps the

cake still with its own texture.

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It does.

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And that I, that's my problem.

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Mm-hmm.

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Is the internal texture people load up.

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I think about that classic dessert,

the eel diplomatico from Italy, and I

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think about how it's soaked up with rum

and I just, it gets a gummy texture.

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I don't

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Bruce: want, and you know, the

French Patisserie do the same thing.

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Most of those classic French cakes,

like the uh, casis buttercream

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cakes and the grandma Monet cakes.

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They brush each Genoise layer with liquor

before they put the buttercream in it.

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I know they do it.

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It keeps it fresher, longer.

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It keeps it moisture.

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Don't like it.

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So in this dessert, It's

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mark: like that.

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It soaks you up.

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Okay.

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Yeah, it's when it soaks

through brushing it.

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Okay,

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Bruce: but soaking

through, mm, mm, mm, mm.

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Okay, so we know we're not

going to be adding that

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component to my layered dessert.

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Now I do have to decide up front,

am I going to make this in a big

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bowl and serve it out in scoops, or

am I going to be a little fancier

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and make it in individual portions.

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mark: So

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Bruce: let me

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mark: stop.

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and say, Let me just stop you right there.

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So when you think about a recipe in

order to create it, and this goes for

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cookbooks or just for dinner parties,

you think almost first about how it's

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served, which is really, that's the

first thing you brought up after we

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Transcribed on about soaked cake.

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You talked about how it's served.

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Bruce: Absolutely.

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That will impact how I cook it.

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That will impact how I do it.

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If I'm going to be plating something,

I'm more likely to say, cut the pork

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belly into cubes before I braise them

in Asian spices because I could plate

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beautiful pieces as opposed to braising

a whole chunk and cutting it up because

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it won't look as nice on a plate.

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mark: And I would say that that's

the difference between you, a

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trained chef, and the rest of us.

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And that is, I would dare say most of

us don't think about what the final

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product will look like on a plate.

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And so, your ability to see that

in advance is what gives you a

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slightly different perspective on

all of this than most of us have.

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It

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Bruce: does.

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And if you've watched the TV show,

uh, Bear, about the restaurant No.

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You could, if you remember through

that, every time they were coming

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up new dishes, what were they doing?

315

They were sketching, right?

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It was always before the ingredient

list came a sketch of a plate and

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what is this going to look like?

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And I think as a trained chef,

I was taught to think about

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how it's going to be presented.

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mark: Right.

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Because it is, this is really unfair

to say, but food is spectacle.

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It is theater.

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Yeah.

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If you're doing it, not on a Wednesday

night for yourself in front of the TV,

325

but I mean, if you're going to really

go all out as we're going to go all

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out with a trifle, it is spectacular.

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Okay.

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So let's go back to the trifle.

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Okay.

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Bruce: So I'm going to be

doing this in individual bowls

331

and I'll leave it at that.

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So now let's take apart the trifle.

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Mark said the first thing

that is in there is a cake.

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So I need to have some kind of cake

and I'm thinking about all of the

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sponge cakes and all the pound cakes

and all the things that are in.

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other books that we've done, Ladyfingers.

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Like, I know we have a beautiful

Victoria type sponge in our ultimate

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cookbook, but I looked at that

recipe and it's so full of eggs.

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I don't want this to be too eggy.

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And so then I thought, hmm, there's

another cake we've done that's a

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sponge in one of our other books,

that's a tres leches cake, but that's

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designed to be soaked with liquid.

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And we just said, we don't like liquid.

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mark: Yeah.

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I may make an exception for Trace

Litchis, only because, you know,

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I'm a dairy fiend and it is so much

milk and all of that poured over

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the cake that I kind of like it.

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But anyway, go ahead.

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So

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Bruce: I keep thinking, where am I going

to get a really good cake to start with?

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And the Amy's Bakery Cookbook, the

sweeter side of Amy's, has one of

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the best yellow cake layer cakes

for birthday cake we've ever tasted.

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They do.

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too rich and sweet for this.

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So I'm going to play with it.

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I'm going to try it.

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I'm going to use it with a little

less sugar, a little less butter.

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I'll probably separate the

eggs so I could beat the white

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separately and lighten it up a bit.

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And here's the trick rather than

baking it in round cake pans.

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I'm going to bake it in a flat sheet pan.

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It'll bake faster and I'll

have more of that lovely cake

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crust, which we both love.

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mark: Wow.

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And see, most of us could never

imagine all of those transformations

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to get to the cake that you want,

because it's too complicated.

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We just want to be given a

recipe and be told what to

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Bruce: do.

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Well, if this comes out great, you'll have

a recipe that'll go into one of our books

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or a newsletter or something like that.

371

Okay.

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So

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mark: now the question

comes up about the custard.

374

So.

375

You have to have some kind of custard,

and it doesn't have to be vanilla,

376

although it traditionally is, but you

have to have some kind of cream, um,

377

that's, you can have creme diplomat.

378

You want to explain what that is?

379

Creme

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Bruce: diplomat is one of my favorite.

381

Basically, it's creme pat, which

is creme patisserie, which is a

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very, very thick Pastry cream.

383

You probably have watched

384

mark: the British baking show.

385

And so you probably know

all about creme pot.

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And if you

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Bruce: fold whipped cream into that, you

have creme diplomat, which is so lovely.

388

It's whipped cream plus creme pot.

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And if you do some gelatin into that,

then you end up with a whole other thing.

390

And you become, yeah, you get

all sorts of interesting cremes.

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You can get a scent on a ray cream.

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And

393

mark: you know, my mom, my mom made.

394

Trifles when I was a kid and,

uh, she just used, I'm going

395

to tell you vanilla pudding.

396

Not only did she use vanilla pudding,

she made vanilla pudding out of a box.

397

She didn't use the instant no

cook vanilla pudding, but she just

398

made the boxed vanilla pudding.

399

And that's what she put between layers.

400

And we use pound cake.

401

That's what mom is pound cake.

402

And vanilla pudding, and then I'll tell

you later what she also did to that.

403

Bruce: So once I perfect that cake,

and I actually may have to make it once

404

or twice the week before the dinner

party to make sure I get it right.

405

mark: And again, no

one else is doing that.

406

Go on.

407

And

408

Bruce: I'm thinking I am going to

go vanilla with the cream and I'm

409

thinking creme diplomat is Just the

texture I'm going to want, which

410

is my creme pat with whipped cream.

411

So now I have to figure out

what the flavor profile is.

412

Do I want to use peaches?

413

Do I want to use berries?

414

Do I want to use coffee?

415

Do I want to make this a salted caramel?

416

Do I want to make it a chocolate chip?

417

Mint trifle?

418

mark: Uh, let's see, you could make,

like, apple pie filling and add nuts

419

to it and cinnamon and cardamom.

420

You could add ginger to things, uh,

to create a ginger blueberry filling.

421

And don't forget curds,

lemon curd, grapefruit curd.

422

These are all possible fruit mixtures.

423

Curds are a little harder because they are

a consistency very similar to the cream.

424

So it gets harder.

425

You get.

426

Uh, not enough, uh, textural

difference between the two, but

427

it's not unthinkable to do it.

428

Bruce: And I'm thinking summer pudding.

429

I love summer pudding.

430

It's not the middle of summer now.

431

I mean, I just love it.

432

And yes, you use white bread

when you build a summer pudding.

433

mark: So if you don't know what

a summer pudding is, you take

434

basically, uh, well, a mixing bowl.

435

You, there are fancy molds, but you can

take a mixing bowl and you line it with.

436

What literally crust off white bread

and then you fill it with a cooked down

437

berry Not cooked down to jam consistency,

but a cooked down berry mixture and

438

you keep layering bread and this

Berry filling all the way to the top.

439

It usually has red currants often

has strawberries But you know, you

440

can actually add any summer fruit to

it Bruce has actually made a summer

441

pudding with plums and peaches,

a stone fruit, a summer pudding.

442

So you can actually go crazy with this

and vary it in all different ways.

443

But anyway, you, you layer the white

bread and after you've lined the tin with

444

white bread, you layer white bread and

this cooked down fruit mixture together.

445

All the way up to the top and then you

put it in the fridge and literally the

446

thing sets up and you can turn it upside

down and unmold it and cut it into slices

447

like cake, um, cut into wedges, like a,

448

Bruce: like a bundt cake.

449

It's a beautiful, yeah, purpley, bready

pudding and, and it's not cooked,

450

it's not baked, I mean, the jam and

the berries are cooked, but, uh,

451

mark: It's called summer pudding

because the Fruit comes in in the

452

summer, but also summer pudding, because

you don't have to turn your oven on.

453

Bruce: And also pudding, because

pudding in the UK is dessert.

454

I mean, what are we having

for pudding tonight?

455

You know, we could be having

apple pie for pudding.

456

I'll be grabbing ice cream.

457

Okay, go ahead.

458

Okay, so now I have the cake.

459

I have my creme diplomat.

460

I know I'm going to make a berry

mixture to drizzle in there.

461

And because the whipped cream is

already in the creme diplomat, I need

462

something else on top because I don't

want to be over whipped cream on this.

463

And I thought, Hmm, I've seen

people do meringues on top.

464

So I like that idea, but

they're always just white.

465

And I want to do a toasted meringue, like

you might do on a lemon meringue pie.

466

And because I'm not going to put

these individual bowls in the.

467

oven, I need to do the kind of

meringue I can hit with a blowtorch.

468

And that's an Italian meringue.

469

There are so many kinds of meringue.

470

I know.

471

mark: There are French

and Swiss and Italian.

472

Bruce: So what's an Italian meringue?

473

An Italian meringue is where you beat

egg whites till foamy and then you cook

474

a sugar syrup until it's at the soft

ball stage, about 148 degrees Fahrenheit.

475

And you drizzle that into the beaten.

476

Egg whites as they're being beaten and

you beat and beat and beat until it's cool

477

and it is so Creamy and smooth and shiny.

478

Yeah, it has some marshmallow fluff and

then I Cream consistency and I use a

479

star tip on a pastry bag and sometimes

I'd use different tips and I changed

480

the look, but I'm going to use a star

tip on this and I'm going to cover the

481

whole top of each individual one of these

trifles with stars of meringue and hit

482

them with a blowtorch so they're lightly

golden and that is what is going to be

483

for dessert at our next dinner party.

484

mark: In the end, the whole point

of this exercise, and I know we

485

went on forever about things, the

whole point was to say that, look,

486

here's the structure, a trifle.

487

And so how do you vary up a trifle

in order to create something new?

488

That is interesting and

interesting on the plate too.

489

This is a really wild idea

to individually do trifles.

490

Nobody ever does that.

491

Everybody always just puts it in

the big bowl, but this way, I think

492

Bruce wants to do it individually

because that way you don't get.

493

To put it crassly, a mound of goop on

your plate, which is a spoonful of goop

494

that comes out and goes on your plate.

495

That's

496

Bruce: not very nice.

497

No,

498

mark: it's not.

499

But again, most of us don't think about

that, what the end result of this thing

500

is going to look like when we eat it.

501

And that's because most of us are making

dinner on a Wednesday night, and we're

502

sitting in front of Netflix, or whatever,

and you know, we're not really worried

503

about what it looks like on the plate.

504

plate.

505

But I think that a chef's perspective is

much more what it looks like on the plate.

506

So of course, that was

his primary concern.

507

And then we have a structure and we

have to figure out what goes in it.

508

And honestly, this is

how we write cookbooks.

509

This is exactly the same

way we write cookbooks.

510

For example, we have a new

cookbook coming out this summer.

511

That is, we're going to talk

to you a lot more about this

512

ahead, but that is a lot about.

513

canning.

514

And there are certain techniques in

canning that are really standardized.

515

There are certain techniques in making

things that you can can, including,

516

and we're not just talking sweet

things, chili crisps and salsa matchas.

517

And those recipes are pretty set.

518

But you can also start to become

very creative in what's set.

519

We'll talk more about that when we talk

about salsa matchas and chili crisps.

520

That's a

521

Bruce: great way to explain

what we did in this new book.

522

Yeah,

523

mark: that that you have

a set way to do something.

524

There is a technique for

making a Chinese chili crisp.

525

A classic, classic Sichuan chili crisp.

526

Right.

527

But once you know the technique,

you can start to vary it endlessly

528

with flavor profiles and pull it

way away from anything Chinese

529

not to get too far into that book.

530

But Bruce has a salsa macha.

531

This is a traditional

Mexican salsa made with nuts.

532

And because you know it's

chilies and nuts, right?

533

And it's usually got a slightly sweet.

534

edge to salsa macha.

535

Not always, but usually

sometimes from dried fruit.

536

Bruce went crazy, and while we have a

standard salsa macha in the book, we

537

also have one with walnuts and maple

syrup in it, which is nothing to do

538

with Mexico at all, but it's taking that

basic technique and morphing it over

539

time into new things because you've got

this set form, but the creativity comes

540

inside the form, not outside the form.

541

Before we get to the last bit of this

podcast, which has gone on forever, but

542

before we get to the last bit of this

podcast, let me say it would be great if

543

you could rate or like this podcast, you

can find that rate or like button on any

544

platform that you're listening to it on.

545

Spotify just lets you rate it with stars.

546

Can we ask for five?

547

That would be great.

548

Uh, Apple and Podchaser and

others let you actually write a

549

review, which would be terrific.

550

It helps us with the NLA's because

as you know, we are otherwise.

551

unsupported by any commercial

advertising and choose to stay that way.

552

Okay.

553

Our final segment.

554

What's making us happy in food this week?

555

Bruce: For me, it's not something

I made or created, although I've

556

been doing a lot of that recently.

557

You know, it's Ben and Jerry's non

dairy cherries, Garcia ice cream.

558

We are in the store last night.

559

We went out for dinner.

560

I wanted a burger and a beer.

561

We went out.

562

I

563

mark: just want to Stop here and

say, you realize with a broken

564

leg, I went out to dinner.

565

My leg isn't broken anymore,

but this was a big deal.

566

This is the first time I've been at

dinner in yeah, eight, eight, eight weeks.

567

Bruce: And we had, I had, I had a

burger and a beer and fries and we

568

shared a nice salad and on the way home.

569

We stopped at a store because I

wanted ice cream and I love Ben

570

and Jerry's non dairy ice cream.

571

It's a, it's a cashew milk and an oat

milk base and the cherries Garcia with

572

the big chunks of cherries and chocolate.

573

It's really good.

574

So that's made me happy.

575

mark: Well, I guess what made me

happy is a being able to go out

576

to eat because I have not been

able to do that in eight weeks.

577

I went to an actual restaurant

and sat at an actual table, which

578

I want to tell you is just crazy.

579

I mean, I think I now.

580

somewhat understand what people feel

like post surgery when they're actually

581

out in the world, you realize how much

you've taken for granted, um, in your

582

life and how much you've done that

you just assume is natural and going

583

into this restaurant and walking in.

584

I walk very slowly right now, but walking

in and walking very slowly to the table.

585

Uh, it was just like this, uh,

almost revelatory experience.

586

I couldn't quite believe it.

587

But what I had at that

restaurant was really good.

588

We went to a local restaurant

and they served a kale salad,

589

raw kale with cauliflower.

590

But the big part of this was it was

really, really finely sliced cauliflower

591

in tiny little bits and pieces.

592

But what was really wild about this is the

dressing was made with nutritional yeast.

593

And so it had this kind of

cheesy, savory quality to it.

594

Bruce: They called it a

toasted yeast vinaigrette.

595

mark: Yeah, I guess they had

toasted the nutritional yeast.

596

It was so delicious.

597

I know, I had a curry after that

for my main course, and Bruce and I

598

split the salad, and as we left the

restaurant, I said, gosh, I wish I'd

599

just ordered that salad as my meal.

600

It was the fresh kale and the fresh

cauliflower, all raw, and then with

601

this toasted nutritional yeast,

vinaigrette and dried cranberries.

602

And it was so tasty.

603

It was ridiculously good.

604

It was fabulous.

605

I think we may have to try some

of that here at our house sometime

606

because I do love nutritional yeast.

607

Okay, that's the podcast for this week.

608

Thank you for joining us.

609

I'm glad to be back on the air.

610

I'm glad to actually be able

to get downstairs to the

611

podcast studio and do this.

612

Hey.

613

That's another thing.

614

I came down a set of stairs on my own.

615

Bruce: And not on your butt.

616

mark: Not on my butt.

617

I've been going up and down stairs

on my butt, which is really something

618

to see and really something to do.

619

But I came in here on my

own and I'm glad to be here.

620

Bruce: And I'm really glad you're

back too, because it's more

621

fun when we do this together.

622

And it is more fun for you listening, I'm

sure, when we are doing this together.

623

So thank you for listening.

624

And please subscribe so you

don't miss a single episode.

625

And let me also remind you to go to

our Facebook group, Cooking with Bruce

626

and Mark, and there you can find links

to all sorts of interesting things.

627

And each week, the question is posted.

628

What's making you happy in food this week?

629

Because we want to know, here

on Cooking with Bruce and Mark.