In this episode, Kev and Tracey welcome Des Payne from the British Horse Society to talk about towing horses, overcoming anxiety, and building confidence on the road.

We chat about:

• The unique challenges and anxieties of transporting horses, especially when they're in a separate trailer
• How preparation, planning, and practice runs can help reduce nerves and build driving confidence
• Practical strategies for managing tricky situations—like traffic jams and impatient drivers—while keeping your horse and yourself safe

While listening to this episode, ask yourself:

• What thoughts or worries come up for you when you're about to tow a trailer or drive with precious cargo?
• How well prepared do you feel for unexpected delays or incidents while driving?
• What practical steps could you take to be kinder and more encouraging to yourself, before and during your next journey?

Links: www.bhs.org.uk

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Individual drivers

Driving Instructors

Tracey: 00:00:34

Des, welcome to the podcast.

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: 00:00:36

Can you introduce yourself, please?

3

: 00:00:38

Des: Yeah, so, hi.

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: 00:00:39

Thanks very much.

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: 00:00:40

So, I'm Des Payne.

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: 00:00:41

I'm the safety manager for

the British Hore Society.

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: 00:00:44

, And really our, our role is to

support , our riders, , and non-members

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: 00:00:50

to find relevant information to help

them and their four-legged friends to

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: 00:00:53

get to where they want to be safely.

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: 00:00:55

Tracey: Lovely.

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: 00:00:56

Oh, thanks Des.

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: 00:00:57

And it's just to explain to people

if it feels a bit clunky, it's 'cause

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: 00:01:00

we've sort of done this episode a

bit backwards where we've talked

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: 00:01:04

about it and we had a conversation.

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: 00:01:05

We had a conversation before then

getting Des to introduce himself

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: 00:01:09

because obviously everything that we've.

17

: 00:01:10

Sort of said is come together

in a really useful, helpful way,

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: 00:01:14

Kev: and we pressed record

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: 00:01:15

Tracey: and we press

record, which is brilliant.

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: 00:01:18

So glad we did that.

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: 00:01:20

So Des, your idea was to

talk about towing, towing.

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Horses, but also expanding

that out and the nerves and

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: 00:01:31

anxiety that that might bring.

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: 00:01:33

Tell us a bit more.

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: 00:01:35

Des: So obviously the, transporting

that horse element is, how can I put it?

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: 00:01:39

It, it's people's mind thought is that.

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: 00:01:42

They're traveling their loved one.

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: 00:01:44

That's a real strong bond that is not

in their child's seat behind them.

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In the, um, comfort of that one vehicle.

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: 00:01:53

Especially when obviously when you towing,

you are in another connective, um, part

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: 00:01:57

of the, part of the vehicle's trailer and.

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: 00:02:00

That has so many risks to it.

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: 00:02:03

Now, the people I, I talk to is, it's not

necessarily about , their safety checks.

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: 00:02:08

The anxious people are

really safety conscious.

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: 00:02:12

they go overboard on, on all their checks.

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: 00:02:15

They're well prepared, they're planned.

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: 00:02:17

What I would like to really gain

is what advice could we give them

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: 00:02:21

for, , what's outta their control,

the other people on the road.

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: 00:02:26

And I think that's the important

piece, is to try and calm their

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: 00:02:29

anxieties down, in when they're

transporting , their loved ones.

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: 00:02:34

Tracey: So that bit that you said

there about anxious people, their

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: 00:02:38

safety checks are absolutely fine.

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: 00:02:40

That follows through with other

things that we hear and that

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: 00:02:43

we've spoken about, isn't it?

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: 00:02:45

So that shows up in the research that

very often somebody , who's experiencing

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: 00:02:51

anxiety as a driver, and of course in

this case, it's not so much about the

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: 00:02:56

driver as the towing, that it does

often mean that they're vigilance.

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: 00:03:02

What they're looking out for,

their sort of, their awareness,

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: 00:03:06

I suppose , is spot on.

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: 00:03:09

, It's not that they're careless,

, it's the, exact opposite.

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: 00:03:12

So, yeah.

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: 00:03:13

The safety piece is there.

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: 00:03:15

I suppose I've never really thought

about the fact that it is different

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: 00:03:18

to having a child in a car seat on the

backseat behind you, because actually

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: 00:03:25

in this case, your loved one is in

a separate vehicle, a separate part.

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I can't think the right word.

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Kev: It's not part of what you are in.

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Tracey: They're not in your vehicle.

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Kev: I mean, I used to do a lot of, I used

to drive lorries with trailers and you

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know, that's, but it was just a cargo,

it was never the cargo of importance.

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: 00:03:45

Tracey: Yeah.

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: 00:03:46

You

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Kev: know, and I think people

don't realize sometimes.

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What it's actually like to

actually drive just a trailer.

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: 00:03:55

I mean, some horse boxes are quite,

they're quite thin and small compared

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: 00:04:00

to sort of like someone delivering

for Tescos, you know, they're, they're

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gonna be, is very different sizes.

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And those trailers do move, don't they?

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The smaller ones do move quite a lot

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: 00:04:12

and I, I think potentially it's that

the other people on the roads don't

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realize that , for starters, you know,

that's part of the problem I feel.

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: 00:04:20

Um, but also for the people driving those

vehicles, I would've suggested most people

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have training to do that, I would've said.

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Is that, is that true Des Uh, well.

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: 00:04:33

Des: The trailer license was actually

re revoked a few years ago Now, there's

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not been a real evidence to say that the

leisure drivers have taken up training.

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we at the British Haw Society absolutely

want to support our, our community by

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informing 'em that, you know, go and

seek professional, um, driver training.

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But there, there is no law obviously

requirement anymore to, to do that.

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so I am sure again, the anxious person

will go and seek that to get the best

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possible sort of, you know, outcome

when they are , towing their horses.

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but . It's a real, is it a skill

fade if you are not doing it often?

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So that's where I would like to, , really

sort of, , speak to our equine community

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is if you are that anxious driver

is to go out in the trailer without

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the horse in, as much as you can.

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and then do smaller trips

with your horses perhaps.

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So you're not necessarily going

to that show at the weekend.

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You're not going to that

leisure ride that is probably

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10 miles away or 15 miles away.

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You are just driving two or three miles.

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Picking up each time

that type of confidence.

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and therefore your horse is getting

used to being transport more regular.

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And also then you are feeling

perhaps, potentially a little bit

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more confident in your abilities and

what others are doing out on the road.

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, Kev: I was gonna ask a couple of things.

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Is it because.

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it's an experience thing.

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So they, they might do it once in

a while because , they have stables

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and the horse is at the stables and

they visit the horse at the stables.

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: 00:06:19

So they don't really do it that often.

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And when it comes to it.

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It's like, okay, I've gotta

be really careful here.

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Do they, do they change the way they

drive because of the cargo they've got?

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Or do they change because of

They're not used to doing it?

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: 00:06:39

Or is it a mix of both?

106

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Could, could be a mix of both.

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: 00:06:42

Des: You know, the person who, was

very upfront in speaking to myself, she

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wants to drive more frequently, but it's

her anxiety that's getting in the way.

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So she, does around three to five,

Days driving a month, which actually

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compared to some that's, that's

a lot more than others would do.

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and each time, and she's been

driving now for, um, a number of

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years, she still feels anxious.

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Tracey: Yeah.

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So there's a, so I mean, the great

thing with that individual is that

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: 00:07:15

they're not avoiding, because one

of the things that we know is that.

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: 00:07:21

If your brain sends you a signal to say,

well, don't wanna do that, and you find a

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way of avoiding doing something that you

are anxious about, then what that does is

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: 00:07:31

that strengthens the urge and the messages

from your brain to keep avoiding it.

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so it's great that she's not avoiding it

because avoidance breeds more avoidance.

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So for anybody who is avoiding doing

something who, who is avoiding towing

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their horse, then the likelihood

is, is that avoidance is just

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gonna become more and more, more.

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I think what's interesting about that

person is generally what happens is.

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: 00:08:00

We do something.

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: 00:08:01

So that idea of doing those very

small practice runs is, is spot on.

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That's exactly right.

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: 00:08:07

Because obviously when something's

a new skill, we do it as a novice.

128

: 00:08:12

Um.

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: 00:08:12

Our brain doesn't know how to do it, or

it might know the theory of it, but it

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: 00:08:16

hasn't had the experience of doing it yet.

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: 00:08:19

So our brain has the experience of

doing it and it makes a connection.

132

: 00:08:23

It's sort of like, this happens,

this happens, this happens.

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: 00:08:27

The more we repeat it, the more familiar.

134

: 00:08:31

Those connections, those

pathways in our brain become.

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: 00:08:35

And so our brain tends to start to

settle down with repetition because

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: 00:08:41

the more we repeat it, the more we do

it, the more experience we gain, the

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: 00:08:46

stronger those neural pathways become.

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: 00:08:49

And if everything's gone

well, then normally that.

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: 00:08:52

Sort of turns into a level

of experience and confidence.

140

: 00:08:58

So it's interesting that that's not

happening for that particular individual.

141

: 00:09:02

'cause I agree three to five

times is, is not avoidance.

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: 00:09:06

Des: But actually what has been said

was that because she has to make those

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: 00:09:10

trips, so actually by having to do those

trips, that's making a, not a void.

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: 00:09:17

But

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: 00:09:18

Tracey: yes.

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: 00:09:19

Des: doesn't go out and continue

that in between those, those areas.

147

: 00:09:23

So there could be an element to

what you've, what you've said.

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: 00:09:27

Tracey: Yeah, definitely.

149

: 00:09:28

So if she's avoiding it when she

doesn't have to do it and is only

150

: 00:09:33

doing it when she absolutely has to.

151

: 00:09:36

So my next question then would be,

it would be interesting to know what

152

: 00:09:42

are the thoughts that she's saying to

herself while doing that drive because.

153

: 00:09:49

I am guessing if she's only doing it

almost under protest because she has

154

: 00:09:54

to, it's like, I've got no choice.

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: 00:09:56

I've got to do this.

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: 00:09:58

So the running commentary in her

head could be going something

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: 00:10:03

along the lines of, I hate this.

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: 00:10:05

I don't like this.

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: 00:10:06

Oh God, there's another car.

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: 00:10:08

Oh, I, you know, have

I, have I gone too fast?

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: 00:10:10

Do I need to break?

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: 00:10:11

You know, and sort of like

this, sort of like doubting,

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: 00:10:13

second guessing uncertainty.

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: 00:10:17

Helpful thoughts.

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: 00:10:19

So if her experience of three to five

times a month is actually filled with

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: 00:10:26

those thoughts, negative thoughts, and we

know again from the research that actually

167

: 00:10:34

the biggest cause of drive any sort of

driving anxiety is negative thoughts

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: 00:10:38

going round and round in the head.

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: 00:10:40

The what ifs?

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The, I'm useless.

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I can't do this.

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: 00:10:44

Oh God, I hate this.

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: 00:10:45

Those sorts of thoughts.

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: 00:10:46

Thoughts.

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: 00:10:47

Cause massive anxiety.

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: 00:10:49

So when you are looking at those

connections and those neural pathways,

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: 00:10:53

if actually she's doing that sort of

driving with those sorts of thoughts,

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: 00:10:58

three to five times a month, she could

be becoming more anxious and hating

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: 00:11:04

it more and more and more because of

the things in her head rather than

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: 00:11:09

focusing on the positives of the drive.

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: 00:11:12

I'm thinking when we were talking

to Adam, he talked about this

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: 00:11:14

virtual reality, didn't he?

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: 00:11:17

He said that with anxious drivers,

it's almost like they, there's this

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: 00:11:23

virtual reality, this parallel universe.

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: 00:11:26

So there's the fact that actually

this lady who's been talking

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: 00:11:30

to you, she is successfully

towing her horse from one place.

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: 00:11:36

To another three to five times a month.

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: 00:11:40

So the, the actual reality is that

she's towing successfully, safely.

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: 00:11:48

Everyone's arriving where they should.

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: 00:11:52

Fit state.

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: 00:11:53

So that's the actual reality.

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But her parallel universe is what's going

on in her head where she, if she was to

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: 00:12:03

replay those journeys, it would be full

of difficulty, negativity, what ifs.

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: 00:12:11

Nee.

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: 00:12:13

And so it's almost like these

completely two different

196

: 00:12:16

realities, one alongside the other.

197

: 00:12:19

And I, I think that could

be what's happening with the

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: 00:12:23

person you are talking about.

199

: 00:12:24

Des: No, that's, I'm sure

that's absolutely, um, you know,

200

: 00:12:26

really helpful to, to hear.

201

: 00:12:29

I would say a general sort of concern

when I, when I've been going up and

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down the country talking to people, is

actually being stuck in traffic with the

203

: 00:12:36

horses and, and, and also the extreme

weather conditions at the same time.

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: 00:12:41

So whether you're on a highways and

the motorway breakdown, , not they've

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: 00:12:45

broken down, but there's a breakdown

ahead of them that's closed the road or

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: 00:12:49

reduction in, in speed, or even stopping

for a period of time where then the

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: 00:12:54

horse gets then a little bit agitated.

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: 00:12:57

You can feel then as you mentioned

earlier, the trailer type into

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: 00:13:00

to sway because it's like the

children in the backseat, if I

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: 00:13:04

refer to that, are we there yet?

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: 00:13:06

Are we there yet?

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: 00:13:08

And you know, after that, that moment

where the horse does get a little

213

: 00:13:12

bit gie, that can be, you know, quite

intimidating because you know, you've

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: 00:13:17

got that sway, sway of the box.

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: 00:13:19

and there's, there's nothing really.

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: 00:13:22

I believe that anything can be done if

you are stuck on a, on a major network,

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: 00:13:28

apart from you could call the highways

department and actually say and use

218

: 00:13:36

your, what, three words as, as a map.

219

: 00:13:38

Say, I am stuck in this three

square meter, you know, uh, route.

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: 00:13:42

I'm aware there's an incident up above.

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: 00:13:44

I just want to inform you that there's.

222

: 00:13:47

A horse and he's getting

a little bit agitated.

223

: 00:13:49

is is there anything you can do perhaps,

because obviously we all know you cannot

224

: 00:13:55

use the hard shoulder just to get off

on the next slip road without a police

225

: 00:13:59

escort or, um, a highways agents.

226

: 00:14:02

Kev: Well, and that goes probably

back to smart motorways where there's

227

: 00:14:07

not a hard shoulder even to do that.

228

: 00:14:09

And that might well cause that, anxiety

to really go, high because people

229

: 00:14:16

will probably feel stuck or stranded.

230

: 00:14:19

And then what do I do?

231

: 00:14:20

How do I get out of this?

232

: 00:14:23

You know?

233

: 00:14:23

So again, it's all of those

thoughts about something that's

234

: 00:14:27

not actually happened yet, but

the thoughts of what might happen.

235

: 00:14:33

And I think that is something that we deal

a lot with, with drivers where, you know,

236

: 00:14:39

it's the thoughts of what might happen.

237

: 00:14:41

, There's no rhyme or reason to it.

238

: 00:14:44

It's just a thought of what, well,

if this happens, what did I do?

239

: 00:14:49

, Tracey: I think one of the things

that I'm thinking there is.

240

: 00:14:53

That is a normal, natural situation that

would be a bit anxiety provoking and

241

: 00:15:00

I think to imagine, to assume or hope

that, oh, can I get rid of this anxiety

242

: 00:15:08

so that I'm not worried if that happens.

243

: 00:15:11

Actually, I think there is a reason.

244

: 00:15:13

I think it would be a sort of,

well, no, in that case, I think

245

: 00:15:16

most people, even the most.

246

: 00:15:18

Experienced person towing horses

would be surely be going, oh

247

: 00:15:24

God, what am I gonna do now?

248

: 00:15:27

Uh, you know the horse, you, you know,

each person knows their horse, don't they?

249

: 00:15:33

They know their horse's personality.

250

: 00:15:34

They know whether their horse is

gonna be chilled out about this.

251

: 00:15:38

Or not.

252

: 00:15:40

so I would imagine it, it, you

would expect for anybody to

253

: 00:15:43

have a bit of a spike there.

254

: 00:15:45

A bit of a, oh, no moment.

255

: 00:15:47

It's just maybe to the what extent.

256

: 00:15:50

So I think there is a

thing about accepting it.

257

: 00:15:53

Obviously having a plan.

258

: 00:15:55

If you have a plan, if you are like,

okay, what can I do in that situation?

259

: 00:15:59

Well, I could do what you just said.

260

: 00:16:00

That advice of, you know, finding

out, letting the highways agency know,

261

: 00:16:07

sharing you what three words to see

if there is anything can be done.

262

: 00:16:11

I guess your preparation before your

trip to, make sure that what you've got.

263

: 00:16:16

In your horsebox covers for a

longer than expected journey.

264

: 00:16:21

Kev: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

265

: 00:16:23

I was just, I mean, the, the, the

phrase that came to to mine is, you

266

: 00:16:28

know, I always look for a solution.

267

: 00:16:30

That's literally what I do.

268

: 00:16:31

I try and think of a solution.

269

: 00:16:33

And it's having these solutions

probably in a card format.

270

: 00:16:38

You know when people buy a Horsebox

trailer for the first time or

271

: 00:16:42

they go for training and it is

having that card form say, look,

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: 00:16:46

if this happens, what could I do?

273

: 00:16:48

I could do the highways Agency Z by Magic.

274

: 00:16:55

Tracey: Okay, Des tell people

what you just showed us.

275

: 00:16:58

Des: So, we at the, again, at the British

Horse Society on the transportation

276

: 00:17:01

page of our website, we have, a

little travel guide that's actually

277

: 00:17:06

got a horse on the front and says.

278

: 00:17:08

Are you sure it's safe for me to Dr.

279

: 00:17:10

Uh, to travel?

280

: 00:17:11

So the, all the preparations

beforehand, there's also some

281

: 00:17:15

useful, um, hints and tips, yes, it's

mainly for, uh, for trailer towing,

282

: 00:17:20

but you can put it change it for.

283

: 00:17:23

Your Horsebox.

284

: 00:17:24

And on the other side it's a little

bit more about breakdowns, drive,

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planning, weather conditions,

who there's some useful telephone

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: 00:17:32

numbers, what we haven't put on there.

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: 00:17:35

It is just these, um, other things

that you might not think of.

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: 00:17:39

So.

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: 00:17:40

If you have broken down, for example,

and your phone is fully charged by the

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: 00:17:44

time you've left home, have you got a

phone charger that you can keep topping

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: 00:17:49

up the battery in case you're out there

for a little bit longer, so you've, you

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: 00:17:52

can keep your comms, have you got your

vet's telephone number to hand if you are

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: 00:17:56

fairly local in, in a sticky situation?

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: 00:17:59

And your, if you plan for, if you plan

for the worst, potentially this isn't

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: 00:18:04

on the car, but if you do plan for the

worst, and actually you're so much better

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: 00:18:07

prepared, you can actually just take it

in your stride, go through your list.

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: 00:18:13

And, uh, you, you've managed to actually

reduce your anxiety is the way, I look,

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: 00:18:19

at things, but yeah, you can request it

from our website and we can post these

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: 00:18:23

out, um, you know, to a, to anyone.

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: 00:18:25

and it's a, yeah, , just a , handy guide.

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: 00:18:29

Tracey: See,

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: 00:18:30

Des: there you go.

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: 00:18:30

Yeah,

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: 00:18:31

Tracey: there you go.

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: 00:18:31

You are in card format and here's one

like Blue Peter, but but you, you're dead.

306

: 00:18:37

Right?

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: 00:18:37

It is that thing of if you have a

plan, if you know what to do, just

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: 00:18:41

that in itself can reduce the anxiety.

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: 00:18:45

It's that not having a clue.

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: 00:18:46

It's when something happens and

you instantly go, what do I do?

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: 00:18:51

Just that phrase gives you anxiety.

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: 00:18:55

At any point when you, you don't know

what to do, you're gonna feel anxious.

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: 00:19:00

It's a normal, natural thing.

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: 00:19:02

So yeah, the, better prepared you are.

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: 00:19:05

It doesn't mean that the situation won't

be anxiety making when it happens, but

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: 00:19:09

at least you'll feel more in control.

317

: 00:19:12

And it comes back to that

thing of what can you control

318

: 00:19:16

and what can't you control?

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: 00:19:18

Des: Yeah, and I think.

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: 00:19:20

Again, other conversations that we've,

we've had with people is going back to the

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: 00:19:25

other drivers out there where they see a

slow horse box going around the slow rural

322

: 00:19:31

roads around the corners or slowing up in

plenty of time to go to the roundabout.

323

: 00:19:37

And then you've got all the

cars that are trying to cut in.

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: 00:19:41

And then causing, you know, more

braking, which then obviously

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: 00:19:44

unsettles unsell the horses.

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: 00:19:47

So it's not the case where, , our

drivers, when they're pulling horse

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: 00:19:51

boxes, is trying to, make everyone

tail back for two or three miles.

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: 00:19:55

It's the case where they are looking

for those bends to keep the horse, , in

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: 00:20:00

a comfortable and stable position.

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: 00:20:02

And if you really think about it, . A

loose partition tied to a piece of

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: 00:20:08

string so they're not strapped down.

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: 00:20:11

All four limbs can move.

333

: 00:20:13

Uh, and they find their own balance,

and the horse finds its balance by

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: 00:20:16

being able to stretch its neck and head

and put his feet in each four corners.

335

: 00:20:21

and then once that disrupts by

either heavy braking or corners

336

: 00:20:25

going in , too fast, , that's

when you know things might happen.

337

: 00:20:29

So it's.

338

: 00:20:31

Being mindful of the drivers behind

that, you know, don't tailgates and

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: 00:20:36

don't squeeze into any large, you

know, any HCV driver, you, you know,

340

: 00:20:41

if you've got a heavy cargo, it takes

that longer distance to stop anyway.

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: 00:20:45

But with a horse you could still,

you know, really unsettle it and

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: 00:20:48

actually make it , fall over.

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: 00:20:49

So , that's the point really.

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: 00:20:52

Kev: I think it's when in those

situations where sometimes for myself,

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: 00:20:58

when I was driving the lorries, and

this would be the same for probably

346

: 00:21:02

your people that are towing horses , in

the horse box is you always feel

347

: 00:21:07

that you're doing something wrong.

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: 00:21:08

Because you'd not fitting in with the

norm, you know you are doing something

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: 00:21:13

different because of what you are doing.

350

: 00:21:16

So you've just mentioned , you

don't go the normal speed as if you

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: 00:21:20

were in a car up to a roundabout.

352

: 00:21:22

Now there's a reason behind that

and sometimes what you have to do,

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: 00:21:25

I feel, is just be kind to yourself

and just remember, or remind yourself

354

: 00:21:32

the reason you are doing that.

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: 00:21:34

This is the reason I'm doing this.

356

: 00:21:35

So rather than have that, thought

process of I'm doing something wrong,

357

: 00:21:40

everyone's thinks I'm slow, everyone's

gonna be jumping in front of me.

358

: 00:21:45

It's just as soon as you notice

you are saying those thoughts,

359

: 00:21:49

it's coming back to the, the reason

I'm doing this is 'cause of this.

360

: 00:21:53

I'm okay.

361

: 00:21:54

I'm doing this because of this.

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: 00:21:59

That out loud, even saying

it out loud to yourself.

363

: 00:22:01

'cause sometimes you might be doing

this on your own, it makes you

364

: 00:22:05

feel better because it's almost

like someone else has told you

365

: 00:22:09

it's okay to do what you're doing.

366

: 00:22:11

and that can be quite powerful in itself

is, is just having that voice say.

367

: 00:22:17

It's okay.

368

: 00:22:19

I'm not doing anything wrong.

369

: 00:22:21

Those cars aren't towing a horse box.

370

: 00:22:24

I'm doing this because of this and

if I do this, I'm gonna be okay.

371

: 00:22:30

We are gonna get there.

372

: 00:22:32

We can then go for that

ride, or whatever it may be.

373

: 00:22:34

So I think just sometimes being, being

kind to yourself can have a a really.

374

: 00:22:41

Positive effect on what's happening.

375

: 00:22:43

Tracey: Mm-hmm.

376

: 00:22:43

And I'm gonna add in there that

actually when talking, I mean, Kevin's

377

: 00:22:48

exactly right, that talking out loud

to yourself is really helpful because

378

: 00:22:53

it is not just an inner monologue.

379

: 00:22:55

when you say something out

loud, then your brain hears it.

380

: 00:22:59

So that does add a different element

in terms of managing anxiety.

381

: 00:23:04

But then, as weird as it

sounds, if you can add in.

382

: 00:23:08

Talking to yourself and using your name.

383

: 00:23:10

So it's a bit like talking to yourself

and the third person, which I know is

384

: 00:23:14

really odd, but being like, okay, Tracy,

you're doing exactly what you need to do.

385

: 00:23:22

And so when you use your name to

yourself, your brain hears that as well.

386

: 00:23:26

So it's slightly odd, but there

is some research behind it.

387

: 00:23:30

Mm-hmm.

388

: 00:23:31

Helping to calm people down.

389

: 00:23:33

And then the other thing

I'm thinking of is.

390

: 00:23:36

Social concerns, worrying

what other people think.

391

: 00:23:39

Mm-hmm.

392

: 00:23:40

Um, about your driving is often a

problem, but in this case, actually

393

: 00:23:47

the person who's towing they.

394

: 00:23:51

Like Kev says that they're the outlier.

395

: 00:23:53

They're the person who is doing something

more advanced and they're the person

396

: 00:23:58

who actually has more knowledge.

397

: 00:24:01

So the reason that some of the other car

drivers might be doing stupid things is

398

: 00:24:07

actually because that driver doesn't have.

399

: 00:24:09

The knowledge or the understanding that

the person who is towing does have.

400

: 00:24:15

So there's something in there about

reminding yourself that actually you know

401

: 00:24:22

what you're doing is correct, and that's

because you have that deeper advanced

402

: 00:24:27

knowledge of what needs to be done.

403

: 00:24:30

Whereas unfortunately, that poor

driver who's doing these stupid things.

404

: 00:24:36

Has a lack of knowledge.

405

: 00:24:38

So it is, it is a bit like instead of

feeling like the person who's doing

406

: 00:24:42

things wrong, you are actually taking

the higher ground because you are

407

: 00:24:47

more of an expert than these drivers

408

: 00:24:50

Kev: in doing what they're doing.

409

: 00:24:52

Des: Yeah.

410

: 00:24:53

That's a really good way of, uh, of

looking at, I've not, I, I've definitely

411

: 00:24:56

not thought of that myself, so, uh,

so yeah, I've taken that one on board.

412

: 00:25:01

Yeah.

413

: 00:25:02

Kev: It can sound really weird as

well when you, the first time or

414

: 00:25:05

second time you start to do it.

415

: 00:25:07

It's like it's, it's like you've got

someone in your head talking to you,

416

: 00:25:11

which is like a weird feeling, but all

of a sudden you've got a reason to do

417

: 00:25:17

what you're doing and it's not so bad.

418

: 00:25:20

Yeah.

419

: 00:25:20

And then it's like,

420

: 00:25:21

Tracey: oh yeah.

421

: 00:25:22

And that words of encouragement

and support with your name, even

422

: 00:25:27

when it's coming from yourself, can

just make a really big difference.

423

: 00:25:33

And it means that inside your

head, you haven't got any time or

424

: 00:25:39

any space to do the, I hate this.

425

: 00:25:41

I hate this.

426

: 00:25:42

Oh my God.

427

: 00:25:43

Because actually what you're doing is

you're going, right, come on, Tracy.

428

: 00:25:46

You know, . They dunno what they're

doing, but you know, I'm more experienced.

429

: 00:25:49

I know what I'm doing.

430

: 00:25:50

I'm doing this for a reason.

431

: 00:25:52

It's not their fault.

432

: 00:25:53

They don't know.

433

: 00:25:54

and that sort of, that those words of

encouragement to yourself means you

434

: 00:25:58

can't in your head be going, I hate this.

435

: 00:26:00

I hate this.

436

: 00:26:02

Kev: Then once they've done it,

especially round roundabouts are

437

: 00:26:04

always the, the thing for me is where

they've done the roundabout or done

438

: 00:26:09

the hazard or whatever it may be.

439

: 00:26:12

Say, well done to yourself for doing it.

440

: 00:26:14

Tracey: Yes.

441

: 00:26:15

Kev: And just say, well done, Tracy.

442

: 00:26:18

You did well there.

443

: 00:26:18

Tracey: Yeah.

444

: 00:26:19

Kev: You kept everybody safe.

445

: 00:26:20

I kept me safe and my horse

is safe as well, so well done.

446

: 00:26:24

Me.

447

: 00:26:25

Tracey: Yeah.

448

: 00:26:25

And what's next?

449

: 00:26:27

And just sort of like, focus in

and, and so then I'm thinking about.

450

: 00:26:31

Jack who came on.

451

: 00:26:32

So we had a racing driver come on doing

a podcast episode and he's talking

452

: 00:26:37

about his races and what he said,

and it does relate and Jack will be

453

: 00:26:42

going, oh God, stop making these links.

454

: 00:26:44

'cause he is, I'm racing, drivers

stop making links to everything else.

455

: 00:26:48

But what Jack says is, and he coaches

people to race cars as well, and he said.

456

: 00:26:54

If I had time to think, if I was

thinking I wouldn't be winning my races.

457

: 00:27:02

So I look at what I've

got to do at this bend.

458

: 00:27:06

I do what I need to do, and then if

I'm on a straight, I don't then start

459

: 00:27:10

thinking about what I'm having for dinner.

460

: 00:27:13

I think about what's next and

what's next and what's next.

461

: 00:27:17

So it's keeping that focus

and attention on, well done.

462

: 00:27:22

Did that roundabout.

463

: 00:27:23

Lovely.

464

: 00:27:23

What's coming up next?

465

: 00:27:25

What position do I need to be in?

466

: 00:27:26

What speed do I need to do?

467

: 00:27:28

How do I control the traffic

around me By signaling my

468

: 00:27:32

actions and taking action early?

469

: 00:27:35

And if you stick into the what's next,

focus on what's next, not go, oh, thank

470

: 00:27:40

God I'm on a straight bit of road.

471

: 00:27:41

Right?

472

: 00:27:42

and say, oh, that was

a near miss back then.

473

: 00:27:44

That could have gone horribly wrong.

474

: 00:27:45

It's just like, what next?

475

: 00:27:46

What's the next bit

that I need to focus on?

476

: 00:27:50

so again, keeping that focus and

attention on the whole of the

477

: 00:27:53

journey, and you can reflect on this.

478

: 00:27:56

when you've arrived at your

destination safely, but while you're

479

: 00:28:00

driving, focus on the job in hand.

480

: 00:28:04

Des: Excellent.

481

: 00:28:04

Excellent.

482

: 00:28:05

I I've got nothing else to say.

483

: 00:28:08

That's, I mean, , they were really the

sort of things that have come up on

484

: 00:28:11

a, a frequent sort of basis stuck in

traffic, hot weather and you know, that

485

: 00:28:16

anxiety about just, you know, what,

what we just talked about, the slower

486

: 00:28:20

driving, the roundabouts, et cetera.

487

: 00:28:22

I'm sure the viewers will

really appreciate that advice.

488

: 00:28:25

Yeah,

489

: 00:28:25

Tracey: Des . how can our listeners

find out information about the British

490

: 00:28:29

Horse Society and in particular,

, that bit about transportation?

491

: 00:28:33

Des: Yeah, so we have a website,

uh, and it's www.bhs.org

492

: 00:28:39

uk.

493

: 00:28:40

and then from there you can either

do the search bar on transport,

494

: 00:28:44

and checks before you travel.

495

: 00:28:46

There's lots of information.

496

: 00:28:48

Um, but also advise to when they ride out

on the roads or if they want to record

497

: 00:28:52

any incidents that they've been in.

498

: 00:28:54

Um, then, uh, then again,

our dead slow campaign.

499

: 00:28:57

They can find out more

information about that.

500

: 00:29:01

Tracey: Lovely.

501

: 00:29:01

And I'll just add in that we've also

got an episode that we did last year,

502

: 00:29:06

I think, about the dead slow campaign.

503

: 00:29:08

So that was with Alan.

504

: 00:29:10

So yeah, so we've got some

information on that as well.

505

: 00:29:15

Yeah.

506

: 00:29:15

Lovely.

507

: 00:29:15

Thank you very much.

508

: 00:29:16

Perfect.

509

: 00:29:17

Des: Thank you.