Let’s be honest, mama, the fourth trimester can feel like total chaos. From sore boobs and broken sleep to cold coffee and toast crusts, it's a full sensory experience. If you've ever felt overwhelmed, touched out, or like you might actually dissolve from sleep deprivation... this one’s for you.

In this episode, Dr. Renee White sits down with the brilliant and hilarious Amelia Lamont, also known as The Midwife Mumma. Amelia is a midwife, sleep and lactation consultant, mum of four and now, author of her brand new book The Midwife Mumma. And if you're after a straight-talking, no-filter guide to surviving early motherhood, this book (and this chat) is exactly what you need.

Renee and Amelia discuss everything from the realities of sleep deprivation and breastfeeding myths to letting go of mum guilt and actually making time to fill your own cup whatever that looks like for you.

You’ll hear about:

💛 The myth of the "easy" baby and why temperament matters more than you think

💛 Real-life sleep advice that’s practical, baby-led, and totally non-judgy

💛 Breastfeeding truths and boob differences (yep, even lefty vs righty)

💛 The power of accepting help and how to let go of control in those early weeks

💛 Why partners need support too and how they can show up in meaningful ways

Whether you're currently knee-deep in newborn life or gearing up for the fourth trimester, this episode is packed with refreshing honesty, expert insight and plenty of laughs. Amelia reminds us that while every baby is different, every mum deserves to feel supported, seen and a little less alone in the chaos.

Resources and Links:

📲 Want to chat more about this? Connect with Renee on Instagram: @fillyourcup_

🌐 Want to learn more about Dr Renee White and explore Fill Your Cup Doula services

🍪If you want to gobble up our famous Chocolate + Goji lactation cookies, look no further!

📲 Want to connect with Amelia?

• Follow her on Instagram: @themidwifemumma
• Check out her website: The Midwife Mumma

📚 Get the book "The Fourth Trimester" at your closest book retailer, online at Amazon or audio-book.

🎧 Loved this episode? Share it with a fellow mum who’s in the trenches with you, or tag us over on Instagram to let us know your fave part. And if you haven’t already, hit subscribe so you never miss an episode of The Science of Motherhood.

Because motherhood isn’t meant to be done solo and you deserve support that feels real, reassuring and a little bit cheeky. 💛

Disclaimer: The information on this podcast presented by the Fill Your Cup is not a substitute for independent professional advice.

Nothing contained in this podcast is intended to be used as medical advice and it is not intended to be used to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease, nor should it be used for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for your own health professional's advice.

[00:00:27] I'm Dr. Renee White, and this is The Science of Motherhood. Hello and welcome to episode 168 of The Science of Motherhood. I am your host, Dr. Renee White. Thank you so much for joining me today. We have got a very big episode for you. It's very exciting. I had such a great time in this interview and I think I had an even better time, I don't know, maybe equal of preparing for this interview, which was reading.

[00:01:23] If you don't know what a doula is, that's okay. I will educate you. Um, a doula is a non medicalised support person. We essentially help mums during pregnancy and birth, and even in the postpartum, which is very on point for today's episode. Fill Your Cup exists pretty much all along the eastern border of Australia.

[00:02:19] I'm the founder of Fill Your Cup and in a previous life I was a biochemist and I've got over 16 years, uh, of experience in health and medical education. So, we really understand how to replenish, restore, and support you in the thick of motherhood. And it's our absolute promise from all of our doulas that for every mum we pledge to be the steady hand that guides you back to yourself, ensuring you feel nurtured, informed, and empowered so you can fully embrace the joy of motherhood with confidence.

[00:03:24] If anyone's interested in having a look at our doula services, head over to our website ifillyourcup.com, or we'd typically hang out on Instagram. So you can jump over there at @fillyourcup_ and you can, you can see what we're all about. Alright, in today's episode, we have the absolutely gorgeous.

[00:04:48] She has written the book the fourth Trimester, which, is so good. Like, oh my goodness, I was giggling along and then I was like, yes that is so factually based. I love that. And it is, it, it feel when you read it, if you, if you know Amelia, if you've been following along. She is so straight to the point. It is just the reality of motherhood.

[00:05:48] And how I also exist is that these are all tools in the toolkit and there's no right or wrong, and every baby's different and every experience is different, and that is okay. And at the end of the day, mums need to have a little bit of grace and realise that we are human. We are gonna have tough days, and we're not gonna have tough days.

[00:06:29] Amelia Lamont: Thanks for having me. Fully fresh faced and glam after a flight, but um, I'm here and I am just surviving.

[00:07:06] Amelia Lamont: oh and that's how I wanted it to feel. Okay.

[00:07:11] Amelia Lamont: It's actually funny when Penguin publishers came to me, they're like, just write the book. Like you're talking to your friend, like, how you doing your social media? And I'm like, so you want me to swear and be crass?

[00:07:25] Dr Renee White: Yes, it's, it's absolutely amazing. Um. I'm gonna read a, a snippet from it. Yeah, course. Um, this is from the beginning. It's long nights and slow days, unfinished meals, and midnight snacks. It's cold coffee and toast scraps. Sore boobs, sore bums, love handles, flabby bits, headaches, water refills, mist calls, unanswered texts. Amelia, you had me at toast scraps, love handles, and flabby bits.

[00:08:08] Amelia Lamont: So I don't know how I've done it. I think this is what I do. I run on adrenaline, like I've just had two nights of absolutely fuck all. Am I allowed to swear, broken sleep? Yes. Um, and then, you know, we've just come from one sleepy show to up to Sydney. Now we're on the Today Show tomorrow, and then, oh my God, there's just so much happening. So I do everything on the run. I do everything very last minute. Exactly how I've written my book. I had two years to write it, and I think I executed 99% of the book in four weeks.

[00:08:52] Dr Renee White: Oh my goodness. I have to say, so I kind of already alluded to this offline, but you birthed Essie just before I had my little one. Yeah. And I was watching alongside for endlessly, but it was kind of like having the girlfriend in your life who's like six months ahead of you and they're like, this is what's about to happen. And so I was kind of like taking notes and, and things like that. I think one of the things that I really loved about you was that you're a sleep consultant, which sometimes gets a rap, like a media a bad wrap.

[00:09:33] Amelia Lamont: Thank God it wasn't me. Yep.

[00:09:56] Amelia Lamont: 'cause it's, it's so true.

[00:09:58] Amelia Lamont: And our babies aren't robots. We're not robots. Yes. Yes. So we have bad days, so our babies do as well.

[00:10:11] Amelia Lamont: Yeah, I guess this is how my big sleep business actually came about is because me and no sleep don't go well at all. And I mean, look. We all know that as you enter Motherhood Parenthood, you are not gonna sleep like you did before. That's fine. We all get that. But you know, as a sleep deprived mother, there's sleep deprived and then there's really fucking sleep deprived where you are drowning in anxiety.

[00:10:44] It never passed from birth. Alfie woke literally every one to two hours. He wasn't hungry. He was a big fat baby. It was just bad habits and me being so tired, I didn't know how to fix the problem. So I took myself off to sleep School had the most wonderful experience and it's funny, you know, you say sleep consultants get a bad rap.

[00:11:39] And then what I was sharing was working, and then I decided to certify myself as a sleep consultant. And then from there, we've never looked back. And now the business is bigger and better than ever before. Throw in some sleepy products and breastfeeding products and a great team behind me. And that's what we have now, this big business.

[00:11:59] Dr Renee White: Yeah, absolutely. And I can assure you, you helped me and you definitely helped my girlfriend who had her baby 18 months after me and she was like, right, uh,

[00:12:13] Dr Renee White: Um, and so I guess how, for the listeners, I think it would be really valuable for you to be able to articulate, as you say, every baby is different. What have your experiences been with each one of your four children and I guess, what have you put into play with that?

[00:12:38] It, what I have learned is that every baby's temperament. Is so, so different. Every baby does have their own personality and dependent on their needs is how they're going to sleep. So yes. You can teach a baby how to sleep. We can all teach a baby how to sleep, but I've got Alfie, who I taught how to sleep and has slept like an absolute dream ever since then.

[00:13:13] Mm-hmm. And then my other child, Coco, who's the third baby, she's very much the same, slept really well until one and then wouldn't get off the boob. Very dependent on me. Um, we weaned and I think she'll be with me co-sleeping until she's five. And then you get my fourth baby scout who is just like her brother and is like, do not put me in bed with you.

[00:13:46] Mm. But you know, there's things you try prior to that, before you work that out and make that analysis. But yeah, every child is so different, and I think that's why we are so successful because it's not a one size fits all. It's like, Hey, your child's like this maybe this approach will work better. It's also about educating mothers about mental health.

[00:14:28] Dr Renee White: Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Yeah. Um, it's so important for mums to kind of be in that right frame of mind. I think that's something that I really struggled with. 'cause I was so, so, so sleep deprived. Like, I joke and I'm like, oh, there's a reason why they use sleep deprivation in the military as torture, like. Hello.

[00:14:56] Like I'll, as an example, like my kids sleep well now obviously, but I still have only had four and a half hours the last two nights, which is very little for me. I'm normally like a six. Six, seven hour maximum broken sleep kind of person. Mm-hmm. And I feel like I'm drowning today and I think this just takes me back to the days of having a newborn baby.

[00:15:19] Dr Renee White: Yes. What are you, what's your go-to to fill your cup? Is it. Do you have something?

[00:15:44] I just say every single week. It's a non-negotiable for me. Um, I start my week off with that and I feel like, all right, I've achieved something. I feel like I'm well rested and my cup's full. Something as simple as that and then obviously the other stuff like catching up with a girlfriend for breakfast, if you can squeeze it in.

[00:16:17] Yeah. I don't need too much to be honest. No, no. Probably. I probably should be doing more. I go to the gym every day for myself, but I don't, I don't have time for that. Right. Yet, right now. Yeah. But.

[00:16:40] Amelia Lamont: No. So no, it's just an non-negotiable with me that, all right, sometime between Monday and Wednesday when the kids are at childcare and school. Um, yeah. That meeting can wait. I'm not coming into the office. I'm just gonna go and get my massage and then, you know, and then I'll be in at work.

[00:17:03] Dr Renee White: Okay. That. Love that. Good advice.

[00:17:07] Dr Renee White: Um, I'm gonna read you another excerpt that I thought was really quite, uh, good, uh, 'cause we're gonna shift gears over to feeding now. Oh yeah. Yep. Practice makes perfect just like riding a bike, right? Even the most experienced boobies that have fed children before may struggle to feed the next one because every baby is different.

[00:17:46] Amelia Lamont: and, and they're learning and they're tired and they're stunned, and they're a little bit, you know, in their love bubble and they don't need the milk right away. And they might have a bit of a sore head from, you know, their labor position or whatever it is. There's so many variables to it and like what you said, and that's really fundamental in like, you know, breastfeeding success. Is just 'cause they haven't latched straight away doesn't mean you're not gonna feed Alfie didn't feed for the first 12 hours like he was.

[00:18:14] Dr Renee White: Absolutely. One of the questions we often get asked is, um. How long is it gonna take for my milk to come in and what can I do to accelerate that process, if at all? Do you have any tips at all?

[00:18:47] By a few days. But you know that everyone, what you do, and you'll probably agree with this, what we do see is mum's going, oh my God, my milk's come in. I'm like, no it hasn't babe. It's day two. Like, maybe it's starting to change. Yeah, the composition's changing. But really any, I say anywhere between, between like day three to seven is when you will see a significant change in your breasts and the milk does start to obviously increase.

[00:19:28] Mm-hmm. You know, your baby's unsettled, pop them on the breast, or even just skin to skin. All of this stuff. Even just cuddling your baby, it's bonding with your baby. It's sending all the right signals, creating all the right hormones to bring in your lactation, you know? Mm-hmm. It's, it's all a part of it, but slow and steady wins the race, and I just think.

[00:20:01] Are they acting hydrated? Are they content? Are they gaining weight? You're ticking all those boxes. You're doing a really good job feeding your baby.

[00:20:19] Amelia Lamont: Too much different advice, different

[00:20:39] Amelia Lamont: and you know what, it's, it's really funny. You will see a pediatrician and you know, if you're in a public hospital, even a private, and your baby hasn't met the threshold that they have, you know, you will be referred to a pediatrician and, and if you've got a sensible pediatrician, which most of the time hopefully you do, they will say, you know what? Your baby's born little, I don't expect it to be massive, but it does have to obviously go on an upward trend or you know, a stable trend. But like what you said, there are so many variables and even health nurses will often say, look, I know, I know baby hasn't gained much weight this week, but you're doing a really good job because look at your last breastfeeding history, or you're doing all the right things, it will happen.

[00:21:33] Mm. You just wanna see it, you know, trending in the right way, um, with the right resources, but. At the same time, let's take the pressure off and it just might take you a little bit longer. Yeah, let's be sensible about it. There's no common sense these days, unfortunately.

[00:21:58] And I'm like, yeah, but like, let's look at this holistically, like what is actually going on here? Um, you know, like, let's look at the genetics, let's look at pre-birth weight and, and things like that. But anyways. I, I wanna ask though, like, obviously you have been in this industry for a number of years. Mm-hmm. What are some of the maybe craziest or biggest myths or misconceptions you've heard about breastfeeding? Bottle feeding. Pumping. Oh.

[00:22:35] It's like the most backward trend in the whole entire world. 'cause it's so false. What is true about formula is that we know that if your baby does consume, you know, yeah a formula. They do have the capacity to stay fuller for longer because it takes longer to digest than breast milk. You have breast milk, it digest a lot quicker.

[00:23:08] But what people don't understand is, is that breast milk not only contains like all the right fats, and this isn't about breast is best, like we, we know that already, but this is about the facts is that, you know, breast milk does have certain sleepy hormones in it. So this is why babies tend to, that are on the breast overnight, settle into a much deeper sleep, much quicker mm-hmm.

[00:23:45] It just really, really depends. But um, yeah, it's sleep and breastfeeding. People just think that if you breastfeed, your baby doesn't sleep. And it's actually the polar opposite. They often sleep better in the long run.

[00:24:12] Amelia Lamont: You do. And, and it's, and it's our hormones that are teaching, you know, the prolactin and, and the oxytocin that's running through our body. We are able to switch off and get into a deeper sleep much quicker.

[00:24:33] It's hard. Mm. Formula feeding isn't the easy way out. You're up sterilizing bottles. You're making bottles in your kitchen at this time. Like, that's fucking hard. Yeah, that's hard. So, you know, there's a lot of myths around, you know, the breast versus the bottle, all of that kind of stuff. A lot of myths about the more babies you have, the quicker your birth scared. That's not true. I'm testament to that as well, and I can confidently say all of my patients, it's the same thing. You know, your first is always the longest, your second is always quicker than your first, but your third. Is never quicker than your second.

[00:25:21] Dr Renee White: Okay. That's, that's good to know.

[00:25:29] Dr Renee White: That is fantastic. I, I'm gonna talk about a, a different topic here, and this is, this is definitely pitched to the mums, and I think we've already touched on like mental health and, and, and things like that.

[00:26:03] You know the kind that makes you wanna vomit but tempts you at the same time. It's a rabbit hole, a deep, dark rabbit hole. I'm still laughing like I was laughing hysterically with this book. It was so, so good. I, I would love to know, like if you can share with us what was your survival guide for Newborn Life and I guess. How did it, did you plan for postpartum like before Alfie? Or like, it was like baptism of fire type thing?

[00:26:41] Dr Renee White: I know that's what I loved about it.

[00:27:22] But it was a hard transition. Throw in some postnatal anxiety that wasn't fun. Um. I feel like the more babies I've had, the easier it's got. Not from experience, probably more from the hands of help that I have around me. Like, you know, I know that my kids are older, they can get themselves dressed. The older too, very self-sufficient.

[00:28:10] 'cause this isn't about, Hey everyone, be my baby. This is so exciting. Yes, that's cool. But you are doing so much recovering internally, which you don't realise, and we push ourselves to our absolute capacity, which is why I think postal anxiety and depression is through the roof as well. One of the reasons why we just don't slow down.

[00:28:43] Yeah. But I think, you know, the biggest take home. From the fourth trimester is you need to slow down and enjoy you and your baby and so that you, your baby, and your partner and learning how to be, you know, new parents together. Yeah. Whether that be your first baby or your third baby, it's every baby's different like we discussed before.

[00:29:17] Amelia Lamont: like tools would be obviously like, okay, if we're talking about postpartum recovery tools mm-hmm. Let's say, obviously ice packs for the badge, that's, that's a given. Anytime you have a baby, whether it be your first or your 20th, you need an ice pack for your badge. So that's a staple for post birth nipple shields for, to heal the nippys. It's taking me four babies to realise that you can heal them much bigger than all the stuff on the shelf in the shops, um, by using these silver things and they just.

[00:30:05] Dr Renee White: Had we, we talk about that a lot in our in home sessions with mums about how to kind of like do that. Do you have any tips for people like, like did someone kind of have to sit you down and go, Amelia, like, seriously, we've got this, let us do this for you?

[00:30:32] Amelia Lamont: And it'd be, it'd be a bit of both. Like I've got great friends and great family, you know, my bestie Cassie would come and be like, babe, I'm taking the kids. We're gonna the park chill out, you and baby to slide down. I'd be like, no, it's fine. Come stay sit. And she's like, no, no, no. We're getting outta your hair. I've made you some dinner. You just rest with the baby. And you know, my chance to rest would be the baby in the bassinet. And I would just sit at the bottom of the shower and just be like, this is my meditation.

[00:31:15] Dr Renee White: Yeah. I love that. Hey, before we jump into our rapid fire, was there anything else that you wanted to highlight for those who are about to enter the fourth trimester, or maybe they're in the thick of it at the mument.

[00:31:39] What about your wife, what about your partner? They all need to know as well, and they're the ones that often get left behind. Mm-hmm. You know, we talk about postnatal depression and anxiety with the mother who's, you know, beared the child. What about dad? What about the partner? They, they get forgotten and you would see that as well.

[00:32:09] 'cause you know, they can, they can feel you moving around. They know you're there. They know you need help, but they can't do so much. So it's about supporting them as well and maybe giving them a way to feel empowered enough to parent like you can, they may not be able to breastfeed the baby. They may not be able to carry the baby, but what can they do?

[00:32:43] Dr Renee White: Yeah. Great advice. Love that. Yeah. Okay. We're gonna dive into our quick rapid fire. We've got three questions. We always ask our guests. Mm-hmm. First one is, what is your top tip for mums?

[00:33:22] Dr Renee White: Yeah. Great advice. Did you have a, obviously before your book, which I suspect will be a lot of people's go-to, but before this, did you have a go-to resource, whether it was a book or a workshop and some, um, guests have said like a poem really resonated, or a quote or something.

[00:34:02] And she's like, remember I had five kids and mum was, mum was always right. Or you know, the classic, um, my baby hasn't poo'd in like a week. Should I go to the hospital? I'm like, mum, what do I actually do? Oh, well you just need to use a little apricot and pair of juice and a little bit of a teaspoon of boiling water.

[00:34:25] Dr Renee White: I love that. You know, you're the first person that's actually said their own mum was their go-to resource.

[00:34:49] Yeah. Sometimes you need, you know, your mum to shake you and say, it's okay. Yeah. Just do this. Yeah.

[00:34:56] Amelia Lamont: And you, oh, that's, and that's, that's her. Oh, you survived. You, didn't you? I know how to look after kids. Amelia. You all survived. We may be like this now, but we did.

[00:35:17] Amelia Lamont: What have I go to my bedside? A baby monitor. I hate to admit that 'cause I never really have baby monitors with the other kids, but we've built a new two level house. I need that.

[00:35:40] Dr Renee White: How's that working out for you?

[00:35:45] Dr Renee White: you know, you might have to bathe in those crystals and lab and to spray then

[00:36:06] Dr Renee White: Oh my God, you are a superstar. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

[00:36:12] Dr Renee White: My absolute pleasure for all those playing at home. Where can we find your book?

[00:36:37] Dr Renee White: I did, did you voice, did you do the voiceover?

[00:36:51] Dr Renee White: because that, do you know what, as I was reading it, I was like, it feels like she's reading it to me. Like that was like, I was like, if I could kind of, you know, would close my eyes with it, I was like, this is absolutely spot on. Okay. Audio book. Yeah. Love, love, love that. Amelia, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Um,

[00:37:10] Dr Renee White: Thank you for saving my sleep because, uh, you revolutionised the way that I looked at sleep and also. Uh, from a mental health perspective of not being so bloody hard on myself because

[00:37:24] Dr Renee White: It was, uh, it was tough. It was very, very tough. Thank you.

[00:37:29] Dr Renee White: Yeah. Amazing. Alright, thank you so much everyone. Uh, head over. To Amelia's eye Instagram page, and also we will put the links down, uh, in the show notes for the book. But until next week, thanks everyone.

[00:37:44] Bye. If

[00:38:10] Head to our website ifillyourcup.com to learn more about our birth and postpartum doula offerings where every mother we pledge to be the steady hand that guides you back to yourself. Ensuring you feel nurtured, informed, and empowered so you can fully embrace the joy of motherhood with confidence.