Caregivers often show up for everyone except themselves. Sherri Snelling joins us to reframe self‑care as essential, not selfish, in the caregiving journey.

To learn more visit https://caregivingclub.com/ and Caregiving Club on YouTube.

Sherri Snelling is not affiliated with Hartford Funds.

Hi, I'm John.

And I'm Julie.

We're the hosts of the Hartford Fund's human-centric investing podcast.

Every other week, we're talking with inspiring thought leaders to hear their best ideas for how you can transform your relationships with your clients.

Let's go!

Sherri, welcome to the Human Centric Investing Podcast. We're so happy to be here with you today.

Well, it's great to be on with both of you. Thank you.

Well, Sherri, you know, Julie and I and others on my team will probably do over a thousand workshops easily this year with retail and clients of the financial professionals that we work with. And many times those who are attending are not the person who's been diagnosed with dementia themselves, but oftentimes, they're the ones tasked with providing care for another. And I think... One of the things that we recognize is that all the questions that we get are never about how the caregiver takes care of themselves. It's how they provide better care for their loved one. But you say it's really important for the caregiver to think about their own needs socially, emotionally, physically. Tell us a little bit more about that.

Yeah, you know, I think it's really interesting because in my most recent book, Me Time Monday, I actually kind of reframed this thought about caregiving. And I had a little graphic and I showed that at the very beginning of life, we start being cared for. And then at end of life we have someone who's caring for us. And in between we form all these caring relationships, whether it's friendships, whether it is caring for a pet. Whether it's having a spouse or children and obviously having older parents and even grandparents that we might be caring for. And most of those relationships we plan ahead for or at least we go into with some kind of knowledge or some things that we know we want. It's really the eldercare piece that we don't pay as much attention to. We don't necessarily think it's gonna happen, but as we see with all of these numbers of longevity, we're living longer now. 20 to 30 extra bonus years, but we might need some help. So it is one of the caregiving roles that more than likely most of us will play in our lifetime. And what's the foundation for all of this throughout life as we have these other relationships is the relationship we have with ourself. What is our self-care foundation and how do we maintain that when we have what I call lifequakes like, you know. You have an older loved one that all of a sudden, you've got to start caring for, you didn't anticipate it or plan ahead for it, what do you do?

How does one get past the feeling of feeling like self-care could be selfish at this time, right? All of a sudden, this individual really needs my help. It's my duty, it's my obligation, or I want to do it, right? Whatever, whatever end of the spectrum that we're on. But how do you part with the thought that I really shouldn't be taking me time Monday? Will you talk us through that?

Yeah, because I think, you know, very often we're juggling all these balls in life, and the ball that we drop is the one that says me, right?

Absolutely. 100%.

That's what we all do. Yeah. And by the way, I call this kind of continuum of care generation C, generation caregiver. And so the way that we should think about it, I think is, again, if we can know that we will play this role at some point, and you could be in your 30s or 40s. I mean. The average age now is in their late 40s that they become a caregiver for an older parent, but you can also be a 70-year-old caring for a 90-year old. And you can't be the caregiver that you want to be if you're ignoring your own needs, because we do see, particularly with, I do a lot of work in the dementia community. We know dementia caregivers have 25% more stress. Than the average caregiver. We know that their journey is twice as long as the average care giver. They have less antibodies to fight off colds and flu. So we know that all of that impact is impacting their own health. And I think the way for us to look at it is, yes, we have to adjust, right? Just like we might adjust with anything that happens in life, if we have a failed relationship or a divorce or we lose a job. These are things that are not necessarily what we want or what we plan to head for, but you gotta roll with it, you've gotta figure it out, and you've got to maintain what your needs are. And I think the same thing holds true, not to look at caregiving like divorce or losing your job, but it certainly is not something a lot of people are planning ahead for, and it is a disruptor in our lives. And so the way that I talk about it is, finding that balance becomes really critical, and we have to. Push away what other people can do, like go 40 minutes to a gym class or spend all this time at a spa or whatever. Caregivers don't have that kind of time, but they can grab seven minutes here and there, hopefully once a day, or even just start out once a week and find something just for them. And there are so many little wellness hacks and other tips that I give. And bringing yourself also back into nature. One of the things that we know is that we've got all this technology in our lives and we have to have it. We have to use it, but it is noise pollution. And what's happening to our brains is our brains are so overwhelmed with not just the chimes and the chings and the email alerts and all this other stuff, but also we have way many choices in life now. You know, I kind of laugh because I'm an older, you know, boomer. And when I grew up, there were only like seven TV channels that you could choose from. Well, now look at our choices, right? But we just are overwhelmed with all of this. And then you load caregiving on top of that and becomes just almost unmanageable. So the way to bring ourselves back into balance from all this technology is to somehow connect back with nature. So whether you're staring out a window at the beautiful trees and the leaves that are moving, or you're watching a bird or hearing a bird sing or. Anything you can do that connects you back to nature is what's gonna bring your brain back into balance because we still have that ancient brain that we lived with out on the African savanna two to three million years ago, and it's telling us, I need soothing, I needs soothing. And what is that soothing? Blue sky, air, clouds, looking at lakes, oceans, the surf, whatever, mountains, greenery, that is what helps our brain soothe and bring us back into that. Kind of stress-free balance that we need.

Sherri, I have a question about delegating different care needs because oftentimes, you know, we'll meet with someone who's a primary caregiver, maybe a spouse, maybe an adult child who says, well, that's my father or that's husband or wife and therefore it's my job to provide their care. But one of the things we know from our studies in aging and longevity is loving is something that can't be outsourced, right? It doesn't matter how much money we have. We will most likely feel very obligated to oversee and provide loving care for that loved one but how important is it with the clients that you work with to develop networks whether they be within the family whether they'd be through friendship circles social organizations to those kind of things provide caregiver relief or is it just kind of a nice notion but will still bear the burden ourselves.

You know, so I think there's a couple of ways to look at that. First of all, one of your questions was how important is kind of the social connections? And I would say it's absolutely number one because we know from things like the Harvard Adult Development Study that's gone on now for over 85 years. The number one secret to living longer, healthier and happier are the quality of our social connections and having at least a confidant that we can talk to and that can take some of that pressure off. So this whole concept of social convoys I talk about in my book is to create these circles of care. So there's a couple of things that go on when we become caregivers, particularly if it's for maybe an older parent or parents, and that is that we typically see a lot of the physical and sometimes even financial tolls default onto one person, despite the fact there might be other siblings or might be others in that family situation. And what we have to do is be realistic. We have to really think about, are there things I could assign to maybe a sibling? Like, do I have a sibling who is a nurse and they could take a look at all the medical claim forms and insurance and help navigate that? Do I have someone, a cousin or somebody who maybe is a lawyer who could look over some of the legal documentation that we need? Whatever it is that I can maybe outsource, I become kind of the CEO of Caregiving Inc around my loved one. So that maybe I'm the person who's present providing that physical nurturing care that they need. So we have, but we have to be realistic. There may be no circles of care. I mean, that's the best scenario when you have siblings who kind of divide up the care or take different shifts, you know, caring for mom or dad. So then we have look to others and whether that's our friends, whether that people that we know, how can we take a little bit of the burden off of us? So again, we find that balance. We find that time to stick with our own social connections that are kind of keep us healthy and happier so we can have the energy and the stamina to continue to be caregivers. And I think things like whether it's a support group, whether it a faith-based or other type of counselor, somebody you can talk to and just share. I know when I did my first book, I interviewed some celebrities, quote unquote, celebrities who had been caregivers. And I asked for only a 20 to 30 minute interview and I wound up talking to each of them over three hours. And I find that caregivers just need to share. They just need to express those feelings and be heard and understand that somebody gets what they're going through. I think that's really, really critical.

I'm just thinking about for a financial professional that knows that one of his or her clients is providing care maybe for an aging parent or finds out during a conversation. Are there apps or websites that might help them with that delegation process? Because I think for so many of us, right, out of love and also obligation, we feel like we just have to manage it all, right? And almost the act of trying to find. You know, my sister is good at that. My brother-in-law is good at that, my cousin could help with this. That is almost an overwhelming thought in and of itself when you already feel like you're drowning. Are there resources that you've come across that could be helpful in this and just sort of streamlining it and maybe delegating some of those activities based upon people's strengths and areas of expertise?

Yeah, that's such a great question because there are so many resources out there to help us as family caregivers. We just don't know where they are, what they are or where to turn. I think, again, this is a great role for a financial professional to at least have at their fingertips. Well, here are some things to think about. Very often, a lot of the support we might get is around the specific disease. So for instance, again I work in dementia and Alzheimer's. If your loved one is diagnosed. There are 77 chapters of the Alzheimer's Association across the country, you know, getting involved with them, going to their educational classes, going to maybe a support group is gonna be critical in your lifeline as a caregiver. So being able to say, hey, there's an Alzheimer's chapter right here in our hometown, you know a planner, a professional, financial professional could say that or other resources. And so maybe just having a list of resources, whether they be local or national, that at least you can. Share with your client. Not all may be relevant, but at least what it's saying is, I hear you, I want to help you, let me maybe guide you, let me be part of that guide that you need in this journey of caregiving. I think just that emotional intelligence and that little bit of support goes a long way.

Sherri, when we think about the ripple effects of caregiving, let's say someone who's providing care is sitting in my office as a financial professional and shares that this is a new role. I've had so many friends that have said, look, this happened over a weekend, right? Last week, it was mom or dad. This week, I'm full-time caregiver for that same person. Can you talk a little bit about the ripple effects in terms of what financial professionals should be aware of? Like that. This may go outside just the patient and caregiver relationship can you talk a little bit about that.

Yeah, you know, I think there's a couple of things. First of all, depending on the client relationship that a financial professional might have, that person might share with you. You know, they may be somebody like me who I tend to overshare. So I'm going to tell my advisor or my financial professional everything. But there also might be people who don't share, they keep it private, maybe again, the stigma that they feel is associated with a disease or something. And so just asking the right questions to get to that point. Is really critical. Has anything happened in your life recently that's been upsetting or just those little openers, if you will? And then I think that it becomes really important to just, again, have as much empathy for what's going on and to also help that person, again bring their crisis back into balance. Because as you said, it can happen over a weekend. We're thrust into all this stuff. We don't know where to turn. We I don't know what. It's going to cost or where we're going to get it or all that. Okay. Can we just take a breath and here are some resources and let's start to maybe plot this out. Let's start to plan this out and certainly the financial piece is going to be a part of that conversation, but it could be other things as well. And getting that help for that caregiver as much as for the person who was diagnosed or had the crisis like fell and was in the ER and now they're rehabbing at home. So I think it's just a matter of having the conversations from a perspective of, I hear you, I get you, and you know what, I think I can help at least a little bit get you started on this journey so that it won't take everything out of you.

And I would think this is another reason for the financial professional to, hopefully beforehand, have built some relationships with the attorney, the accountant, some of the other professionals that's maced around that client so that you could offer help to that client to say, look, if there's anything that needs to be discussed with the Attorney, whether it's about the business or the plan or whatever it might be, the tax ramifications, I'm happy to do that. I think extending that would be extremely helpful.

Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. It almost becomes incumbent for financial professionals to create their own caregiving referral sources. Knowing who the home care agencies are because there might be a home care client that doesn't have a financial professional and then the home care agency might be able to refer you or vice versa. The elder law attorneys, which are they have a special certification in senior law. And how that varies state by state and what are the things to think about can become really important to the financial picture that you're helping your client navigate. And as you said, some of these other resources. So really it does become incumbent, I think upon financial professionals to again, not be similar to their clients where they're just waiting for it to happen, but to have kind of this built-in resource list that they can offer up or guide their clients to is really critical.

Sherri, I think it's interesting to think about the financial toll that a caregiver could be put in or a situation, maybe expectedly, but maybe not expectedly. Just thinking about them contributing to certain aspects. Maybe they're not paying necessarily the monthly fee, but all the other things, whether medications, groceries, personal effects. Will you talk a little bit about how that can impact a caregiver and maybe how they should begin that conversation either with the person they're giving care to or with their financial professional?

Yeah, well, certainly the hope is that as a family, we've maybe had a conversation early on when everybody was fairly healthy. In gerontology, we call it the 40-70 rule. And that is if you were age 40 or your loved one is age 70, you should start to have conversations about long-term care wishes, end-of-life wishes. Start to maybe know what the legal documentation is in place or isn't in place, and all of those kind of foundational things. That's one of the things we know about costs of care. Is ARP has done some studies that show on average, we're spending up to 20% of our annual salary on out-of-pocket costs. And that can be, you know, again, $7,200 if you're looking at an annual salary range. But it can be a lot more than that too, if you are looking at a certain disease. So I think knowing where, how are those costs gonna be covered? Is it gonna come out of my own pocket? What does Medicare and Medicaid cost? I mean, one of the things I always find astounding and I think the statistic is 40% of Americans believe that Medicare will cover long-term care costs. So if my loved one has to go into memory care or they have to go in to assisted living, that'll be covered by Medicare. No, it's not, it not covered at all. And so knowing that and having that knowledge and being able to, okay, what are we gonna do here? And then having the conversations within families, what does the financial picture look like? Because you're gonna need a long runway to build up some savings if it isn't already there to cover some of these things maybe later in life. And that's why starting earlier is always better. And that hopefully something a financial planner or a financial professional can really help guide the family on. Let's not wait for the crisis, but if you think you might be caring for your mom or your dad or. Know, the in-laws or whomever or all of them. What does that look like? Do you know what their financial picture is? Do we need to sit down and kind of, you know, make some notes around this? I think that's a great way to get started in these conversations and then to kick start a family conversation if it hasn't already happened.

Sherri, I'm sure you deal with a lot of clients of yours who ask about your personal experiences, whether it's within your own family or maybe helping others. As a financial professional, let's say a client comes in and shares with me that they're now in the position of being a caregiver. I know they've been a caregiver maybe for several months, but they're still beginning stages. What are the do's and don'ts for a financial professional about? Do I share my own experiences? What do I have to be careful about if I do? Is that the right approach, or should I take a strictly kind of business approach to it? How would you recommend that we handle that?

Yeah, that's such a great question. And you know, I don't necessarily have individuals who are my clients because my clients tend to be employers and they're looking at how do we educate our employee population around caregiving and do some workshops for those who might be in a caregiving situation and financial planning and all of that is a big one, financial resiliency. But going back to how do you really um, start that and have that conversation. I think absolutely. The national master caregiving just came out with their 2025 caregiving in America report. It's kind of the seminal, uh, survey study that's done in cooperation with ARP. And we now have, um, 63 million caregivers in the U S that's up from 52 million just five years ago. You're not alone. And yet every time I talk, I do talk to individual caregivers. That's the one thing they always express. I feel so alone. So knowing that you are part of this huge, by the way, huge volunteer long-term care army, the largest volunteer army that we have, our family caregivers, but where are your resources? Where is your help? And understanding that the person I'm talking to, the expert, has their own personal story. My CEO of my company has a personal caregiving story or my colleagues or whatever. It makes you feel more open to talk about your own situation because very often it's different from having a baby. You know, you get pregnant and you come to work and you're like, hey, guess what? We're gonna have a child and you know, there's parties and all that. You don't do that with caregiving, right? You keep it to yourself. You're worried people will look like, oh, maybe I'm not as productive or whatever. I won't have the support. So hopefully this opens us all up. When we know others are going through the same thing, now we can share. You know, our challenges and our struggles.

What is the piece of advice that you would give someone is sort of their first step after they become a caregiver? Maybe it's been some light check-ins here or there, delivering some groceries, but all of a sudden they really find themselves in that position of this is happening, this is all on me. What's that first step that they should take in your opinion just based upon all of the work that you've done in this area for many decades?

You know, I do think it's the conversation. You know we may start out, I call it's like baseball, right? You're either going to go, it's a fast pitch and you came into caregiving as a crisis situation or it's slow pitch and you kind of, as you said, you've been helping out with bills and taking mom or dad to doctor appointments or whatever. But whatever way you come into it, having the family conversation is probably one of the foundational first things because we have to know what the picture looks like. You know, we have to know, okay, there will be more needs that you have, even if there isn't a diagnosis that's devastating like something like dementia. Also, I mean, you know, your physical health and things like that may not be as good. We might not need help here or there. So just having that conversation, starting it out slow, giving your loved one the control because I think this is the biggest thing for family caregivers. And if you're like me, which I'm type A and I have checklists and I feel so good when I can check things off at the end of the day. Well, sometimes you're not gonna get through the checklist or sometimes you can't make somebody do something you wish they would do, but having the open conversation and giving your loved one the agency, the empowerment and the control over what they see and what they want and then how to do you together or maybe with the help of a professional like a financial professional, how do you plan for that? But it really does start with I think the conversation.

Well, and Sherri earlier, you said that one of the keys to that conversation is asking the right questions and you're in luck because Julie and I like to ask all of our guests just the right question and something we call the lightning round. So if you're game, we're gonna ask a series of questions just so our audience can get to know Sherri a little bit better. So if your game, I'll ask Julie to start with the questions.

Okay, I'm ready.

What's your go-to comfort food?

Ooh. Okay. I would think it's going to be something warm. And I tend to be more of a salty person. I like salty stuff. So I would say it's gonna either be French fries or pasta. Love it.

Sherri, I'm sure you've spoken to audiences across the country, but if you had to name a walk-up song, a song that said to your audience who you are, what song would you pick?

Oh no, this is one where I really have to think. Oh my gosh, um, you know? I love anything by earth, wind and fire because it makes me feel like dancing and joyful and just energetic and kind of getting the audience prepared for hopefully what I'm going to share with them, which is bringing that joy and balance back into your life.

That's awesome.

I love that. What's one thing that people would be surprised to learn about you?

That's interesting. I don't know. I'm kind of an open book. Oh, okay. Here's one. I am a huge fan of British mysteries. So pretty much anything I watch on streaming, it's all about whether it's Agatha Christie, whether it is Midsummer Murders, which is one of my favorites, anything that has to do with English mysteries, I'm in.

On a scale of one to 10, how good of a driver are you?

This is a really interesting question because my dad was a Formula One race car driver. I think I have maybe a little advantage to some other drivers out there just having that genetic connection and being in the car with him, which my mother obviously hated when we were kids. But I am definitely what I would call an assertive driver. Yes, sometimes I do give road rage because I live in California. And we're car culture out here. And if people aren't driving faster, the speed limit, I get a little irritated.

What's a hobby you've always wanted to try?

Oh, that's interesting. A hobby I've always wanted to try. Okay, Bird Watching. Yeah. That's a great one.

My final question, this one's crucial. What's your favorite ice cream flavor?

I have probably two, but during the summer it's a lemon zesty sorbet, which I have in my freezer right now. And then I think just year round, it is definitely chocolate chip.

Love that. I think that is such a great way to wrap up. And Sherri, we can't thank you enough for joining us here today on the Human Centric Investing Podcast. And for our listeners, if you would like to find out more about Sherri please feel free to visit her website at caregivingclub.com as well as her YouTube channel. So thank you again for all of your insight. We cannot tell you how much we appreciate it. Well, thank you for having me on. Thanks for listening to the Hartford-Bunds Human Centric Investing Podcast. If you'd like to tune in for more episodes, don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And follow us on LinkedIn, Twitter, or YouTube.

And if you'd like to be a guest and share your best ideas for transforming client relationships, email us at guestbooking at HartfordFunds.com. We'd love to hear from you.

Talk to you soon.

The views and opinions expressed herein are those of the guest who is not affiliated with Hartford Funds.