Fr. Bryan Kassa, Director of Vocations for the Chaldean Eparchy of St. Thomas the Apostle, joins Fr. Craig and Fr. David to discuss his vocation story and the importance of fully surrendering to the will of God.

(0:59) Fr. Craig introduces this episode’s guest, Fr. Bryan Kassa, Director of Vocations for the Chaldean Eparchy of St. Thomas the Apostle. Fr. Bryan shares some highlights from his past few months, including receiving seminary applications, a new pastor arriving at his parish, and the Eparchy holding its first discernment weekend.

(5:35) Fr. David and Fr. Craig share highlights of the month as well, and Fr. David gives the monthly Costco update! Fr. David also shares an update on the young adult carpentry night his parish hosted last week, and Fr. Craig mentions that his summer has been full of Thanksgiving Masses for the recently ordained priests for the Archdiocese of Detroit.

(13:23) Fr. Bryan shares his vocation story, mentioning a girlfriend he had who’d challenged him to really take his faith more seriously. He talks, too, about running into an old friend who’d recently joined the seminary and the seed that encounter planted in his mind, and the silence he experienced that helped his thoughts of the priesthood come into focus.

(23:01) Fr. Bryan discusses some of the fears the Chaldean community associates with a priestly vocation as a result of the persecution of Christians in the Middle East. He talks about how he explained his decision to become a priest to his parents and the importance of fully surrendering to the will of God.

(30:08) Fr. Bryan talks about cultivating a relationship with the Blessed Mother and encourages everyone to have a devotion to her. Fr. David emphasizes this as well, mentioning the impact she can have specifically on men discerning the priesthood.

(33:40) Fr. Bryan revisits what his life was like before entering the seminary and the ways he learned to hear the voice of God through the scriptures and Catholic authors. He talks about the hunger he had for Jesus, and the way a secondary vocation will develop when you really solidify your primary one. He also shares some of the resources that helped him discern his vocation (linked below).

(43:14) Reflecting on his first few years in seminary, Fr. Bryan discusses some of the classes he took, the need to humble himself and ask for help when needed, and, especially, the fraternity that develops among colleagues.

(47:47) Fr. Bryan talks about the Chaldean rite, what an “eparchy” is, and how the different rites of Catholicism relate to one another. He mentions some of the differences of the Chaldean Mass and how the Chaldean bishop, Bishop Francis, and Archbishop Vigneron relate to one another.

(56:33) Fr. Bryan shares about where the Chaldean Chancery is located, how men who are interested in discerning can contact the Vocations Director, and how the eparchy is structured in Michigan and beyond.

(1:00:33) Fr. Bryan offers parting advice to men who are discerning, encouraging them toward fortitude and spiritual courage. He then closes in prayer.

Links from this episode:

Eparchy of St. Thomas the Apostle

FORMED

Augustine Institute

Be a Man - Fr. Larry Richards

Consoling the Heart of Jesus - Fr. Michael Gaitley

33 Days to Merciful Love - Fr. Michael Gaitley

[Eparchy of St. Thomas the Apostle Vocations](vocations@chaldeanchurch.org)

Fr Craig:

Welcome to Men of the Hearts, a monthly podcast from the Archdiocese of Detroit office of Priestly Vocations. Join me, your host, Father Craig Giera,

Fr David:

And me, Father David Pellican.

Fr Craig:

As we explore the priesthood, hear vocation stories from priests all over the archdiocese and eparchy and answer questions about discerning a priestly vocation. Tune in every month to wherever you get your podcasts, learn more@detroitprissyvocations.com. So welcome everybody to another edition of Men of the Hearts podcast. Today we have on our third guest, this is our fifth podcast. So it's exciting to continue to move on. UI was not in seminary with this priest. However, Fr David was in the seminary for about two years with him. He's not only an associate pastor at a parish, but he is also the vocation director for this area. And you might be thinking Fr Craig, we thought you were the vocation director. Well, I am, but he is the vocation director for the eparchy of St. Thomas the Apostle. So Fr Bryan Kassa, welcome to the show.

Fr Bryan:

Thank you so much. I'm glad to be here.

Fr Craig:

Yeah. How are you doing today?

Fr Bryan:

Everything is great.

Fr Craig:

Awesome. So it's good to have you here. And I can't wait to hear your vocation story and a number of things about the Chaldean eparchy. Also We Have Fr David with us, how it goes by you Father David?

Fr David:

Well, it goes well by me, Fr Craig, and I'm also very happy to welcome you, Fr Brian to the podcast. Haven't, you know, haven't seen you much around, but I remember our times in seminary together--it was always fun to see you in the halls. You always had a smile on your face and usually a joke or two as well. So you always came back with something. You don't, you don't, you didn't put up with bullies very well. You defended yourself, always.

Fr Craig:

That's great. Perfect. Well, Fr Bryan, before we get into your vocation story, what has been a blessing for you this past month or a couple months? I'm assuming, like me, you are kind of finishing up applications for the seminary this year?

Fr Bryan:

Yeah. Yep. We had a couple we had about three guys that were applying, so just wrapping up there and just a lot going on at the parish. We've been we've, we're, we're getting a new priest in, in August, so we're glad to get the new help. I think that's a blessing in itself. So,

Fr Craig:

A new pastor or another associate?

Fr Bryan:

A new pastor. So I'm kind of just--I'm just heading right now--I'm the temporary administrator. And so that's come with its own little set of responsibilities and then doing seminary work and then just getting some more help is going to be just,

Fr Craig:

Yeah, you're doing two full-time jobs, so it'd be great that you get this help coming up. So yeah, a vacation would be really nice too. So, yeah. Right.

Fr Bryan:

I keep hearing that priests are less busy in the summer. So I'm waiting--this August 1st will be five years as a priest. I'm just waiting on when that, is this going to be the year? Maybe, maybe, maybe?

Fr Craig:

Any blessings going on, anything that happened at the parish or with vocations?

Fr Bryan:

Yeah, so we have, we just recently had a our, a park. You did a discernment weekend. It's our first time. It wasn't even a weekend. It was like 24 hours. And so that was really good. We, we had a many men come out. And so we spent--it was 24 hours at St. Paul's retreat house, the Passionists in Detroit. So that was really good. And I think the biggest blessing was not only the men that came, came to to come on the retreat, but like, we've never done this before. So I was like, this is gonna be a disaster. It's going to be a hot mess. It's not going to work. And then like, and then I met with the guys afterwards just for some meetings and stuff. They're like, it was amazing. It was great. The Holy Spirit was talking, and whether their vocation was solidified for the priesthood or whether in the opposite direction, like all glory to God. So I think that's a great, it was a huge blessing as well, just for people to have clarity. I mean, that's the main thing. We don't need men in the seminary that don't don't have the calling right? Of clarity is a great thing. So it was our first time doing it and it worked out really good and we hope to be able to do it moving forward. So that was just last month. So it was, it was a great blessing, for our eparchy.

Fr Craig:

That's great. That's great. I can't wait until we start doing discernment weekends here at Sacred Heart, Major Seminary. Now I felt the same way when we started the discernment group, I thought, is anybody going to come? And it's going to be horrible because I'm not going to know what to say or what to do. And it just, again, the Holy Spirit worked, and then it turned out great.

Fr Bryan:

It was great. And then we look forward to, you know, cause we can join you guys on the discernment weekends for the Chaldean guys.

Fr Craig:

Oh yeah.

Fr Bryan:

So you know, we'll add a little bit of Chaldean flavor to the to the discerning weekends. You know, we come with our own flavor.

Fr Craig:

Yeah. Always welcome. Well it was funny, Like we're the region, six vocation directors. And we saw each other like for the first time, really in Ohio and I'm like, hey, you're another vocation director. And you're like 15 minutes away from where I live. You know, we need to work together a little bit more.

Fr Bryan:

And I told you. So I had reached out to you. I text messaged you, but it--you never responded. So I was mad at you. I was like, what's up with this guy? What's, you know, why, why does he respond? You know, like I understand he's busy getting settled in, but I just shot you a text message saying, hey, welcome. You know, it's part of the region. And hopefully we can get together for lunch and you never responded. So like a year went by and I saw you recently at the in Ohio. And then and then you text me and I, I tell you that the number it was set a (586) area code, it was (585.) So the message I sent it to never went through with. So I take back for judging you earlier.

Fr Craig:

Well, thank you very much. Thank you. There is redemption in this world.

Fr Bryan:

I had a, I had a lot of mercy on you after I realized that I made a mistake. It happens from now, sometimes every once in a while.

Fr Craig:

It happens every now and then something, right? So, well, Fr David, you know, I mean, did you go to Costco this, this month? And did you pick up something good?

Fr David:

Of course I went to Costco this month, well, I actually, I went a little out of my comfort zone. I'm not a big sweets guy. But I, I got something sweet this, this month. And it was because, as I was holding in my hand, I was holding these toasted coconut chips and I was holding something else called Heavenly Hunks. And a lady walked by and she pointed out the Heavenly Hunks. And she says, "those are addictive. You should get those." So I went with it. Yeah. And they were good too.

Fr Craig:

Gluten-Free--healthy for you. You can eat the whole bag and nothing would happen.

Fr David:

Yeah. No fat, no calories, nothing.

Fr Craig:

That's right. That's right. They're heavenly.

Fr Bryan:

No, no, no, Fr Craig, I'm drinking one of your fizzy waters here, Perrier. I believe you get those from Costco too. Have you been to Costco as well?

Fr Craig:

I, I do. And I I'm a San Pellegrino man. I'm not a Perrier fan, but that's the only thing that they had, yeah, desperate times. I need my fuzzy water and that was what was there. Yeah. But I was in Costco to picking those up and it was kind of interesting, you know, cause I get used to people, and I'm sure both of you get used to people just looking at you wherever you go. You know, I don't even notice that anymore. But when I go into a store with someone that's not usually with me and they're like, everybody's looking at you and I go, yeah, that's just normal, whatever, you know? And I'm sitting in line waiting to check out, and a younger, younger lady comes forward as a young family or husbands behind her. And she's like, "I told my husband, if I see the priest, if I see the priest, I got to tell him that it's so cool that he's wearing his collar." So I just like to think that I was bringing heaven into a Costco, right? Like this collar reminds people of God. So I think, you know, we speak volumes sometimes just by wearing our collar and walking around in normal everyday places.

Fr David:

Absolutely.

Fr Craig:

Now father David, didn't you make birdhouses with the young adult group last month? How did that turn out?

Fr David:

Well, we tried to make birdhouses. No, it turned out very well for the most part, there was a wide range of skills among them. And so, wide range of success in the end products. Some of them, I don't think a bird would ever live in or could even get into because of where the hole is or the lack thereof. Some of them were pretty nice though. One of them that even built a little like upstairs deck and chapel for the bird. Yeah, it was, it was a fun project, a fun evening. As you know, I did a little construction in work in summer jobs in high school. So it was nice to pull out some of those skills again and, and just kind of share those with others.

Fr Craig:

Hey, you need to take pictures of those and post those so that people can see how how good they came out.

Fr David:

I should, I should some maybe, maybe some more than others.

Fr Craig:

Yeah. Well, I hear you made another creation and you debuted it at a young adult group as well. Something that you and Fr Bob McKay put together. You want to explain what this thing is?

Fr David:

So I cannot take credit for this--Fr Bryan, you probably know father Bob McKay. He's been a spiritual director here at seminary for awhile. He's he's our pastor over at Divine Child. That's where I'm assigned. And he's actually on retreat this week. But this was, when would, this was, this is a been like last fall, maybe that made this discovery.

Fr Craig:

I don't remember when you guys made this discovery.

Fr David:

Well, I think it was last fall, and we decided we were going to have hot dogs for lunch and we just went to the fridge and we found everything that might sound good on a hot dog or that Fr Bob thought might sound good on a hot dog, and kind of threw it together and it tasted really good. We ended up calling it "The Detroiter" so it has artichoke hearts on it. That's the, yeah, I would never have put those on a hot dog. What else does it have? coleslaw, spicy mustard and tomatoes. And it's actually pretty good.

Fr Craig:

And pepper, right?

Fr David:

And pepper. Yes. And the bun is always toasted. And I'm not a fan of, of hotdogs, Fr Bryan--

Fr David:

You just don't like hotdogs at all, do you?

Fr Craig:

Fr Bryan, do you put hot dogs--do you eat hot dogs? And what do you put on them?

Fr Bryan:

If I brought hot dogs home, my Chaldean mother, would hit me with one or the whole pack.

Fr Craig:

Cause I mean, your culture has some really, really good food. And like, when I was over at St. Fabian, every now and then my pastor would go to the Chaldean club out there and he would always come home with a huge pan of Beef Kofta and we made Beef Kofta everything. I mean, we would put it in Ramen noodles, we put it in our eggs, we put it on top of rice, whatever, and yeah, anything. It was just, it was a sad day when there was no Beef Kofta left in the fridge.

Fr Bryan:

That's about right; sounds about right.

Fr Craig:

Yeah, but I, I can't stand hot dogs myself. And, and the reason why is because our first dog growing up as a kid, wouldn't eat the dog food. So my mom decided to microwave two hot dogs every single day, cut it up and put it on top of the dog food. So I associate hot dogs with dog food and the dogs probably still preserved with how many nitrates are stuck into that dog for 10 years. So hot dogs are not my, not my biggest thing. For me, this year or this this month, was a blessing in which I got to go to a number of different Thanksgiving masses, if you don't know what that is, we had three guys who were ordained for the Archdiocese of Detroit and Thanksgiving mass is usually the man will go back to his home parish. They'll probably have a party for him, but he does a special mass where everybody comes out and he does this kind of massive thanksgiving for the parish, all their support, all their prayers. And maybe if he had a, you know, an intern parish that he went to, or maybe somewhere else that he grew up, he would go back to those parishes as well. So I got to go to all those special events and to see these priests say one of their first masses. So it was really beautiful to see. And I think back in the day, and I don't know if still as our resident smart person, Fr David, is there still indulgences tied with going to Thanksgiving masses or blessing by a newly ordained priest or anything like that?

Fr David:

Well, I, I believe there is I believe going to the first mass of a priest, you can get an indulgence for that and actually getting a blessing from a priest anytime in their first year of ordination, that comes with a special indulgence as well. Yeah, it was, it was actually interesting for me this year. It was it was the first year. I didn't really get to go to a lot of masses of Thanksgiving. As a seminarian, you know, you're, you, you have a little more freedom to, you know, go out on the weekends and now I'm at a parish. And so all these guys are having their massive Thanksgiving on the weekend and I got to be at my parish. We did have one, actually Fr Zaid came back and did a mass of Thanksgiving at Divine Child. So I was able to join him for that.

Fr Craig:

Yeah. People were there, he preached a really good homily and I think he was a little bit nervous, but he did such a great job. If you weren't paying attention, you wouldn't have never known that he was nervous. So now he did like, just like a pro, just like a pro. Well enough, a small talk here, a father Bryan you know, we got you on the show. Want to talk a little bit about your vocation story because each of our vocation stories are very unique and maybe you can touch the heart of a man who's listening on online right now? So you want to kind of just go into your vocation story and talk a little bit about that? Maybe we can talk also a little bit what it means to be part of an eparchy and that type of stuff as well.

Fr Bryan:

Okay. Sounds good. If I go on and on just do this with your fingers and tell me to wrap it up--Chaldeans, we talk, you know, so,

Fr Craig:

That's a good thing, talk away!

Fr Bryan:

So my vocation story, I would say, probably started when it came into reality where everything that the world said was going to make us happy, just didn't. So I was blessed. I was, I graduated high school. I started working for a company right away as an intern Volkswagen had their corporate office out in Rochester Hills. So I was working there just taking incoming calls. I was an 18-year-old guy, just you know, doing summer work there. And I basically stayed there for 10 years. So within 10 years, everything again, that the world said was going to make you happy--so I was able to, to, to work there, even after the summer internship, and within the five different jobs. So like climbing that corporate ladder, I did five different jobs within 10 years that that last job that I did for five years, I was a quality analyst, so I was listening to incoming calls from the United States for-- and so--but no one knew that I was recording them. You know, that annoying thing in the beginning of a call, this call may be monitored. And so I'm the guy that was monitoring the phone calls, just making sure that the information that, that the, the, the, the representatives, because I was in the finance department. So that last part was Volkswagen credit that I was working for. So it was our assets. So anyone who lease a Volkswagen or, or, or an Audi had to go through our department, cause it's our asset. We want to know what's going to, what's what we're going to do with it. And so there were just certain cars that we don't want back. And so we would try to push certain cars like offer incentives and whatnot, so just everything, everything that, you know, that again, the world said was, was going to, you know, just really--but I found myself like just wanting that next job, and wanting that next job and then wanting that next job. And then as I continued to move up within the company, they would also come with incentives. So obviously more money. So I was--it was a 24-year-old kid living at mom's house. Cause Chaldeans, you don't move out until you're 30 or 40 or married. So here I am, this young guy making a bunch of money. Crazy. And--

Fr Craig:

What kind of car did you drive?

Fr Bryan:

I drove a Volks--or I drove--so my last car was, I had an Audi TT convertible, so I was styling. I was sitting out there. So, but even with that being said, because I was like, okay, this car is going to make me happy, and then I would get a different car. And this car is going to make me happy. I was like, once I get this convertible, I've made it I'm, I'm on top of the world. And so I remember even like that day, I picked up the car from the, from the Audi dealership and the dealership is right, right off and 59 right off the highway, so I drove out, felt like a million dollars, got off the parking lot and got onto the ramp to get onto the highway, and I just felt like completely empty inside. And I was just bummed by that. Cause I was like, this is going to do it. It's always that next thing. And so so the money, the cars, the clothes sitting in meetings with very important people and just something within my heart just started saying I was in, I was in a relationship and this, I was thankful because I was dating a very great Chaldean girl. My mom loved her. I met her family, she had met mine, but it wasn't like formal, but we were moving in that direction. And I'm glad I had her, because she just kind of like put me in my place when it came to certain things. I was, I never fell off with the Catholic faith I was practicing. So when I fast forwarded from 18, because nothing really, you know, prior to 18 years old I was pretty faithful, just, you know, went to mass, you know, parents--wasn't really didn't have much option at that point, but I started fall off a little bit as I started to get engulfed in the world and started following the secular world and money again, and college and all that stuff. So she really pulled me in my place. She pulled me, my place said like, "you're, you're not going to mass every single Sunday. You barely go to confession anymore. Like, I, I would never marry somebody like you." And that was something for me like, oh, well, I'll show her, you know, I'm gonna get my act together, you know? And, but, I was happy to have her because she, she showed me you know, why, you know, like I knew why we should confess, but she was very patient, but challenging. I think that lacks, like my friends, my own guy, friends were in challenging me and here, this girl is challenging me. And you know, so, so I was, I was just getting more into my faith. And as I start to get more and more to my faith, and I was realizing that this secular world that I was living in and everything that I was doing was just kind of leaving me more and more empty. So I was really being drawn in this direction. My buddy was entered into seminary here and I hadn't seen him for a couple of years. I, we actually lost her last track for like five years didn't and I ran into him by accident. I was like, where have you been? And he was like, I'm actually discerning priesthood. And I was like, what, why, why would you even want to do that with your life? What's, what's wrong with you? And you know, he just, we swapped numbers cause we hadn't seen each other for awhile. And he was like, let's keep in touch. Two weeks later I was walking into St. Anastasia's--has an adoration chapel--so I was walking into the adoration chapel. He was walking out. We had a conversation outside that basically like he--for the first time ever someone had ever asked me, have you ever thought about becoming a priest? And at that point I was feeling very overwhelmed in my--just I was going 110 miles per hour. Not with the Audi, with, with life. I was going 110 miles per hour, just with everything. I was--my parents own a business, of course, Chaldean's, we own liquor stores. So I was, I was helping my parents out of this store. I was working for Volkswagen full-time as a, as a supervisor in the department, I was helping out with retreats, I was serving for young adults, I was helping out with the retreats I was serving at church, I was dating, I was trying to be a good friend and so I was just all over the place. I was a mess, and there was no silence in my life. So at that point I just came to the realization, like my anxiety was really high, and I just had to like--just needed silence. So as you, you know, going to adoration and whatnot, and just sitting there reading the scripture verses, I find a lot of peace, like a peace that I've never really experienced ever before. So, just spent a lot of time in adoration, even broke up because--broke up with--and it broke out of the relationship, because I just needed peace and I didn't have it. I just felt like everything was equal and I couldn't prioritize. And I was being pulled in so many different directions. So as I--

Fr Craig:

Was the thought of priesthood on the back of your mind when you broke up with her or was it more just?

Fr Bryan:

No, just signs of life. I know I'm going back and forth. So just--I dropped everything. And including like, I was working on my master's degree at that time, so I just dropped everything and dropped my classes, you know, told my parents I couldn't help out of the store anymore. Didn't--I exited the relationship. You know, that whole, it's not, you it's me. It really was me. Like, I was a mess. I needed to get my act together, but I needed to go to the desert literally. So yeah, noise. There was no, no--even if God was calling me, I'm sure he was calling me. Even if he was calling me, there was no way in a million years, I could have heard him at that point. So I'm just kind of you know, so, so broke everything off, ran into my buddy that I was telling you about. He asked me about priesthood. And at that point I felt like my whole life changed within that, that second, as soon as he asked me that question, he, as soon as he asked me, if I ever thought I'd be becoming a priest, everything that everything that the world said was going to make you happy, all of a sudden I knew that that wasn't the truth and that was a lie. And that, that priesthood was the answer for me.

Fr Craig:

Was this the first time you ever thought about it?

Fr Bryan:

This was the first time I was 26 years old. I was 26 years old, and I never thought about becoming a priest ever. It was never on my mind. And so at this point, I, so at this point I was like, okay, well, this is, it made sense to me. I was like, I want to go tomorrow. You know, I was like, this is--

Fr Craig:

Now is this after a couple months where you kind of were in the silence, the silence three months, three months inside, like it was three, four months. It kind of like backed off from everything, took it slower. You know, I was still working my corporate job, but I had silence. I was making a point to go to adoration daily. I was in there for a couple of hours sometimes. And so you know, just really just soaking in the peace. And I'm like, this is amazing. Like peace is not a feeling, it's a person--that was a reality that Jesus is peace. Right. I wanted peace, but I thought that the world was going to give it to me, and I found myself more and more anxious. And so at that point I decided like, this is a real thing, God, you got to, you know, show me like, this is what you're calling me to do. It makes a lot of sense to me. And then just if I went through all the different stories of how God was showing me one story, and I'll keep it short, is that St Cyril Methodius has a Easter, a Lenten symposium every year. So I had gone to that. And I was asking at that point I was asking like, Lord, you just have to make this very clear to me. Is this something you're calling me to do? Like, I'm ready to step away from, from everything. If this is what you're, what you're asking me to do--I was that convicted by it. And so I went there and then three different times I got a flyer for the symposium three different times. I had never signed up and I was like, I'll go. Maybe I'll go. Maybe I'm not. And then the last time I went to my corporate job, and then face down, my, my employees used to put their time sheets face down on the on my keyboard for me to put in the input their time while I was going through them. And then the, the flyer was there on my desk at work. And I have no idea how it got there. So like, okay, I got to go to this. I don't know why, but I have to go to it. So I go to it, and then the first speaker, nothing, second speaker. And I think third speaker, he gets up there and he's like, there are men who are--there must have been a thousand people there--he was like, there are men that are here right now that are being called to religious life that are being called to be priests. And they, and they're not, they're not sure they want to do it. They're being cowards about it. Take a chance. Jesus takes a chance with you. Why are you afraid? And I'm like, oh my God. Is, is he talking like, he's talking to me, you know? Cause I was wondering like, you know, and so then I, I heard his talk, left walk to my car and then I was like, you know what, Holy Spirit, I need to talk to this priest. How am I going to find them? I have no idea. So I walk back into the church, he's walking towards me and I'm like, father, I got to talk to you. This is what's going on. And he was like, it makes sense. He was like, I work. He was like, I work at, at the Vatican. He was like, I'm here for one day and I have no idea why God's going to send me across the world. But after you just explained to me what's going on in your life, I feel like God sent me here for you. Wow. And it was just, it was crazy. So then, wrap it up, you know, I started to tell my parents that was a big hurdle. Right. So Chaldean--I don't know how it is for in the Roman Catholic families, but in Chaldean families, they, as pious as we are and how, you know, we're, we're so devoted, and, and we, we fled ISIS in Iraq, in our parents to come here to practice their faith. The last thing they want is for their children to become priest or religious. Really? Yeah. So it's not something that's really promoted and in our culture they think like you can be a sub deacon or you can be a D--well, we don't have permanent deacons. We have transitional deacons, but they're like, you can be a sub-deacon, which you can still be married and serve the church.

Fr Craig:

Yeah. What's a sub-deacon? You want to explain that?

Fr Bryan:

A sub-deacon is basically--it's an installation versus an ordination. So you're just installed, like to be able to read the St Paul letter or to a Old Testament. You're also able to do the the thorough for that specific specific you know, where that's a specific in our right, where, where there are certain parts of the mass where a sub deacon has to do that. So, so, when I told my parents, they, there was a lot, a lot of like very, very there--just a lot of backlash, especially my mom, they had, they were against it very much against it. I mean, my, my mom said, if you do this, you're not welcome back in the family. So if you go, you know, like, and again, I know that she, she really, she thought the world--I was successful in the world, you know, and from that perspective, you know, I'm throwing my life away. And so I'm, I'm like, well, you gave me the faith. So I'm confused while you're confused. So you know, I just knew I had to--I had good friends, thank God I had, I had a really, really good, you know, two, two guy friends who knew the scriptures very well. And he, they challenged me. You know, Jesus says, "whoever loves father or mother more than me, brother, sister, more than me is not worthy of me." So I knew I had to make a decision. And the Holy Spirit gave me the power to do that. Not on my own because I'm a coward and I didn't want to do it, I want to run away and just kind of be comfortable. But I knew that the Holy Spirit--I knew in my heart, that God was calling me to do. I knew, I knew in the depths of my soul, that God was calling me to do it. And I knew that, you know, I will have to suffer. You know, if that's what God's calling me to do, it's not meant to be easy. It's not gonna, you know, it doesn't say it's going to be a walk in the park. He says, pick up your cross and follow me. And he gave me the grace to do that. Cause there is no way by myself. I could have done that. So--

Fr Craig:

How did your parents come around? Because you're, you're not the first person that has told me that, that their parents were against that. So if someone listening in right now, who's afraid to maybe tell their parents, what would you say to them? What, what happened with your parents to make them understand?

Fr Bryan:

Yeah, I would, I would say so--I would say a couple things. Number one, that it, it, it, it does come with suffering. If there's that backlash, it is it's going to hurt. And I do remember that. I remember telling, I remember telling I remember telling the father saying, God, the Father, like, I won't enter until like, until my parents start accepting it or, you know, I need to know that they're okay with it before I enter. But God taught me to give up control. Like that's me, bossing God around and God's like, don't, you know, like, I need you to take a back seat, you know, and I'm calling you and it's gonna be on my time. And I was like, but I need, I need them to be okay, so I can be okay, but it wasn't okay. So I remember the day I left for seminary, my car is packed, my mom is in the garage crying. We went about three months, not talking, and then from the year and a half that I told them, the first three months were--it was chaos. I mean, I'm not even going to like downplay it to make it sound like it was nice and cute. I remember Mother's Day I gave my mom a Mother's Day card and she just whipped it across the room. Not because she's, she's a bad person. I understand now, like moms want and dads want best what's best for us. They love us. They think that they know what's best, but you know the first commandment do God's will, right? And then the fourth commandment honor father and mother. So I knew of God and I knew God was calling me, reading the scriptures, spending time in silence, all the external signs that were happening, through that one story that I told you versus another hundred of them and having good help. I had a really, really good spiritual director at the time, just as a layman, you know, who just wants to grow in my Catholicism as a, as a Catholic man, I wanted, I wanted to, and I had a good priest, spiritual director who really fostered my vocation and said like, this is going to be tough. You know, you'll weather the storm. And so I remember leaving in September for seminary, still there, not a hundred percent, mostly my mom, my dad's very laid back. Always say my dad's like St. Joseph. Very cool. Very gentle. My mom's like mother--she's a combination of mother Teresa and Mike Tyson. So, so she's the one that you got to be careful of--that that left-right hook, you know, you don't know when it's coming, but so, but then we left in September, came home for Thanksgiving and then she was a little bit better. Cause she saw I was good. Right? Like God gave me a lot of graces. I was happy. I think she thought--and I remember her saying, you know, like, you know you're going to sit in a room and pray all day amongst four walls. That's depressing. That's sad. And she didn't want that for me. Right. But she didn't understand, you know, what the priesthood is. Right. And really what it entails. And then I came home for Christmas and then she was, you know, saw that I was like, I was hanging out. I was loud. I was being, you know, I was being myself and she, she saw that and like kind of her, her, her, you know, she realized like, this is, this is okay. And fast forward until now she's obviously like very, very, very proud. She's annoyingly proud. Right? Like we went to the Apple store the other day and I'm sitting at the, that little like genius, genius bar or whatever at genius bar or whatever it's called. And she's behind me and she's talking to some, some guy and I'm like, oh my God, she's telling him I'm a priest. She doesn't even know anything about that. So I walked back, I'm like, mom, you're ready. She was like, this is my son. He's a priest. This was the one I was telling you about like, mom, he probably doesn't care. Nice to meet you. I'm like, mom let's go, we got to wrap this up. You know? So she's very supportive, very loving. And you know, she's coming up, she's come a long way to write that, you know, God was teaching me to give up control. She lost control for her own salvation. She needed to--that control, right, that I had, that she had, she wanted me to stay--I needed God to do something for her. That control is, you know, that's, that's not, that's not a virtue. Right. And so we needed to both surrender. I grew in my, in my--in to be a virtuous man. And she grew, you know, that, that control can, you know, can really paralyze us. And so it was on God's timing and, and I see the fruits now. It's unbelievable. Yeah. And she's super proud. And she loves telling people, and she's just, like I said, she's annoyingly supportive.

Fr Craig:

And a lot of times I think growth happens not only through silence, but a lot of times through difficulties, some type of suffering, some type of pain, you just grow in wisdom and grow closer to the Lord. Especially if you rely just on God's grace, because like you said, we can't do it alone. So, I mean, I can't imagine, I don't know if I could have went through something like that to not have my parents support me in that regard to be able to come back home for the weekend or just for a day and asked for 20 bucks for gas or something like that. But no, it's, it's, it's amazing that you know, even in the midst of that difficulty, you still said yes to God and you still found peace in the midst of that trial. And I think if what you're saying to the potential men out there who might be in the same situation as you were that you know, don't be afraid that yeah, it might get difficult, but it always gets better. Yeah.

Fr Bryan:

And I, I will just add that, my mom's name is Mary. And so I went to the blessed Virgin Mary as well. Like I, so I just encourage any guy that's in that situation, or just any guy who's discerning, forget the difficulties, right. That you remember going to Mary and saying, you know, I need an encouraging mother right now. Like I don't have an encouraging mother in my life right now and I need you Mary. So like, I cultivated that relationship with Mary. I, it was there prior to all this, but it was like, it wasn't as like, as, as like active. And so I went to her and I said, I, you are my only mom right now. It seems like, because I think I'm losing my earthly mom. And so I remember throwing, you know, like just asking Mary to intercede for me, and I said, no matter--and God gave me this, this, and it came from the Holy Spirit, it must have been. But I remember saying to Mary you're a mother who can only help another mother because no matter what I'm saying to my mother, it's not working. So you're a mother who can help another mother who's a need, and you lost your son, so my mom knows, she feels like she's losing me. So you're, you're my, you're my bridge. Like, like I just give it up to you, Mary. Like, you have to be the one who intercedes and this, and I'm till this day will say that Mary intercede for the Mary in my life, which is my mom. And you know, that my, my heavenly mother was helped at my earthly mother, but helped me as well as her earthly son, Mary, as, as her spiritual son just took me under her wing. And so that's, you know, I'm, I'm indebted to me. Yeah.

Fr Craig:

That's so beautiful. And I, Mary, our mother in heaven, I mean, it's just, if you don't have a devotion to the Blessed Mother, get one, don't consider it. Don't think about it, get one, you need it. Pray, the rosary pray the rosary daily. The Blessed Mother is such a beautiful mother and aid help, protection guide, anything and everything that you could possibly want. You can have in the Blessed Mother. She will bring us to her son, Jesus. So, I just want to echo what you're saying, Fr Bryan, that many times in my life, although not the same situation, but to go to the Blessed Mother, especially in deep moments of darkness or confusion, the Blessed Mother has always been a great guide. Fr David, do you have a devotion to the Blessed Mother? Do you need to get one?

Fr David:

I sure do, I sure do.

Fr Craig:

Do you know who she is? I think I've heard of her Fr David, you know, I'll introduce, you.

Fr David:

No I, I would echo that, I think, especially for priests or men discerning the priesthood, it's so important to be able to go to our Blessed Mother. There's just, I think there's a special relationship that priests have with the Blessed Mother and that she kind of sees them as her sons in a, in very unique and special way. I know I've, I've seen that. And even just like, for me, it's, it's praying the rosary. But also, just taking some time in the evening when I do that little examine in night, prayer of just like, kind of doing that with the Blessed Mother. And it's almost like the image I have is when, when I was little and I was out late. Didn't matter how late it was. Mom was waiting up for me when I got back. And you know, you were going to get the question, so how was your day? You know? And she didn't want just, it was good, you know, she wanted details. And so it's like, it's like that, that little moment at the end of the day to just sit with your mother, your heavenly mother, and just go over the day with her. And yeah, it's just, it's, it's a really beautiful time and a beautiful way to really get to know her. And yes, she brings you to Jesus.

Fr Craig:

Yeah. Amen.

Fr David:

So father Bryan, let's back it up just a little bit. Cause I mean, that's great that you explained that because I'm sure other people are in that same exact situation, but like, what were you doing before you went like right before you entered the seminary? Like, what was your prayer life like? What was, what was your daily habit? I mean, did you go to mass every day? You said you went to adoration a lot? Like what were you doing to prepare yourself to make this leap and seemingly on your own almost?

Fr Bryan:

Yeah. So I would--you know I just was challenged with the scripture verses, like, I, I mean, I mean, as vocations director, when guys come to me and they, and I know this from prior to entering, right. When guys come to me and say, they want to enter some new, I'm like, okay, why, how do you know, has God ever spoken to you? And they're like, well, there was this one time. Like, no, no, no, no, you don't get it. Like someone explained to me, if you're not reading the most sure way to hear God's voice is through the scriptures. So if God was calling me to be a priest, well, I that's where I was being challenged by, by just growing in my relationship, even with the girl that I was dating was like, you need to read the scripture verses not about vocations. She didn't want me to find that vocation. She wanted me to, you know, just to get my act together. But like just, you know, and, and having the guy friends that I had that knew the scripture verses so well, I remember like, okay, God, well, I guess you speak through the scripture verses what these people are. All my, my friends who are holier than me are telling me, so I'm gonna go to the scripture verses. So talk to me, well, we be careful what we're asking for. Right. you know, I just, and it was, this is going to sound, you know, so I would just say like the scripture verses for sure, but having somebody to help you interpret what the scripture verses are. So again, I had a really good spiritual director, so a guy should find a spiritual director. It doesn't have to be a priest, right. Somebody who knows theology, somebody who knows the scripture verses it could be an elderly, you know, good practicing Catholic, like somebody, you know, I think sometimes when we think of spiritual direction, we think of it should be a priest. Well, that's nice, but, you know, I, you know, it's impossible for all the different requests that we get for to be able to have spiritual direct everybody, but having a good spiritual director. So I had that. I had a good spiritual director. I was reading the scripture verses daily. I think at the time, I don't want to sound overly, you know, devout, devout, devoted.

Fr Craig:

I was overly devoted. I was doing all these things.

Fr Bryan:

Well, I will get on your level one day father, we're going to work on it, Fr David and I, we're in your shadow--

Fr David:

We aspire to one day.

Fr Bryan:

And so and then just, you know, sitting just, and so when, when I, when God was speaking to the scripture verses, I realized that there could be something about a book that through the author of a Catholic book of unprepared discernment, vocation, give God an opportunity. We just have to give an opportunity to speak, right? So he's not bound by the Bible, which for sure he's in the Bible, but he speaks through a good Catholic author. I was listening to podcasts. I was listening to stuff on Formed or the Augustine Institute. I was always looking for talks or something, just, you know, even YouTube videos. So God always provides the opportunity if we give it to him. And I, I was just, I was hungry. I was thirsty. I, I just like, again, you mentioned being in a desert, I was in a desert and didn't even realize it. So I was just like, I was so, so thirsty for Jesus and had no idea how to find him. And then just spending that time in adoration. Just find a lot of peace there, you know? And I, I was going to mass. I was including about two to three--I think additional masses besides Sunday mass. And that was, you know, praying the rosary. You know, I always found the still till this day. I think that when we hear about priests, when we hear about priests you know or just in general, you mentioned the rosary till this day. I still find it a struggle to pray the rosary. I get distracted very quickly, but you know what I know, it's, I know it's a powerful--it's a weapon. And so even, and I've always struggled with attention. And, and when I tried to get creative, you know, how to, how to pray the rosary, right? So like just kind of like the redundancy, I lose focus, but I was getting to the praying, the rosary

Fr Craig:

There's apps for it too. There's I would play it on the, you know, on my phone or on the car drive. And someone said, that's not fair. You can't do that. You can do it however you want!

Fr Bryan:

I pull up, now I pull up the YouTube videos on the, on the mystery. So like that three, four minute, and I'm just praying the hail Mary silently, as I'm watching the YouTube video. And if someone said you can't watch YouTube, I'm like, yes, you can. Yeah.

Fr Craig:

It's a devotion, it's a devotion. Yup.

Fr Bryan:

So, and just, you know, changing my environment, right? The, the, the guys I was hanging out with back in the day, you know, I was praying to be holy. I want to grow in my holiness as a Catholic man, but the guys that I was hanging out with were not pulling me in that direction. So I knew that I had to, you know, make some choices you know, still to kind of keep them around, but, you know, I need, I knew who I can be with, if I was serious about not even discerning a call to the priesthood, that was secondary. I just knew that I had to you know, I need to need needed to, to--my surroundings needed to change if I was serious about just being a Catholic man, right. That's my primary vocation to try to be holy, to get to heaven, to cultivate that relationship with Jesus. So I needed to start there and through there, and I would tell them all to this day, Fr Craig, you'd probably tell people as vocation director, I tell guys, don't worry about your secondary vocation, beef up, your primary vocation, beef it up, and you'll find your secondary vocation. Yeah. And it comes through, but, you know and so if we live out our primary vocation, and that's where I started just trying to like, be more serious about faith, but my Catholicism being able to defend it, I was taking apologetics classes. You know, when people were asking me questions in corporate world about like, why do Catholics do this? I don't know how to answer it, or why, what do you guys believe about this? And, you know, I would go to nondenominational Bible studies. Right. And I was like all about it because I was interested and I would go, and they're like telling me that Catholics were wrong and I didn't know why we were wrong. Right. So just in my, those, those 10 years that I spent in corporate America, like I would just, you know--so, so just studying, praying, silence.

Fr Craig:

Do you want to name some of those books that were really influential for you?

Fr Bryan:

For for the discernment?

Fr Craig:

Yeah. I mean, anything that was really helpful for you that kind of stirred up your soul. I mean, I've read some books that were, I don't know, kind of amazing for me in that it really didn't speak necessarily to my specific vocation, but as I was reading it, I could feel my heart ache.

Fr Bryan:

Yeah. So I would say to come right off the bat, Be a Man by Fr Larry Richards.

Fr Craig:

Okay. Amazing. Yeah.

Fr Bryan:

You know, I give that book out. Sometimes guys get mad at me for penances I'm like looking and I give them, I was like your penance to read this. And they're like the whole book? I'm like, let's your penance is the first three pages, you know, or read two pages everyday for the next three days. It's a great book. It's such an easy read--Fr Larry is awesome. He's funny. He's also very, he's bold. So I just wanted to be a better man. Right. And it's, it's you know, so, so I read that, read that book, Consoling the Heart of Jesus. I had the wrong idea of who Jesus was. You know, I thought he was, you know, this, I was a modern day. Jansenist thinking that Jesus is just mad at me expecting perfection from me and seeking for me to you know, to, you know, you know, I was ashamed to go to, I was going to confession, you know, and, you know, I kept coming back for the same sins and I thought God was mad at me. And so this, this, this book, Consoling the Heart of Jesus, by Fr Michael, Gaitely just changed, it changed my whole perspective on how Jesus--

Fr Craig:

That's a five dollar word though. What's a Janice or a Jansenist? You're, you're, you're trying to take the role of a resident's apartment. Give me a run for my money.

Fr Bryan:

Jansenism is as a--it comes from the Jansenist heresy of a, where you had to be basically going on in France during the time of St Margaret Mary, when the Sacred Heart, when Jesus revealed his Sacred Heart. So just like that, in France, that this heresy was going around, that you have to be perfect to approach Jesus. They were putting pictures of Jesus with a sad, upset, angry face in front of the Tabernacles because bishops and priests said like you can't approach Jesus. So like yeah. So this was--

Fr David:

The idea--you have to be perfect before you go to God.

Fr Bryan:

Right? Yes. Yeah, exactly. So don't even dare approach. And so Catholics were in going to mass during that time, they were afraid of Jesus as this kind of angry--

Fr David:

Would never receive the Eucharist for like years and years,

Fr Bryan:

And bishops were like, happy about that. And so--

Fr Craig:

People feel that way. I mean, a hundred--being a pastor for five years and just talking to certain people they're in their seventies or eighties, and they still don't believe that God loves them. And that God's love is for everybody else except for them. And that God's mercy is for everybody else except, not their sins. Yeah.

Fr David:

Or somehow they got to get to a place to make them perfect before they can be loved.

Fr Craig:

And it's God who makes us perfect.

Fr Bryan:

Absolutely. So that book changed my whole perspective. I was blown away when I read the book Consoling the Heart of Jesus by Fr Michael Gaitely. And if, if--

Fr Craig:

St Mary Alocoque's, how would I say that? Yeah, they're really good about the priesthood too. Yeah. And she, she wrote a book on the priesthood.

Fr David:

I think so? It's like the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the priesthood. Yeah. It's pretty good.

Fr Bryan:

Yeah. So the--but if, if you want an easier read, so I will also--besides Consoling the Heart of Jesus, then he also wrote another book called 33 Days to Merciful Love. That book is amazing. It's a 33 day reading, not the 33 days to Morning Glory, which is on the blessed Virgin Mary, which is also not what you should do anyways, because you want to consecrate yourself to the Blessed Mother. Absolutely. So, but just a really good daily reading on Jesus' merciful love. And he uses a lot of Saint Therese just, you know, like her little way and how she was so small. And man, I could go on for hours and it just, I was just blown away and just like, wow, God loves me. You know, this past Easter, I think people were offended. I said like, we're losers, you know? And people were like, "wait, what did he just say?" I was like, if you have a hard time believing we're losers and you don't understand what Easter is about. Cause we had lost our salvation and people were like, father, you called us all losers at mass. I'm like, yeah. And you can read this book because it explains why we are losers, but not loses like in a condemning way. We're, we're we're--we were on our way, right, to hell. Without, without, without, without any of this, without Jesus coming into scooping us up and bring us back to reality.

Fr Craig:

Well, that's amazing stuff like, so what was your first or seminary like then as you were kind of dealing with your mom and your parents and figuring that all out?

Fr Bryan:

First year, first semester, like I, you know, like I don't know what the statistic is, but like I know a lot of guys leave like in that first semester, a lot of first year, and I understand why, because you're coming in with so much baggage yourself and then you then get, like--I remember me cause I, I like, I come, we came--I came in with a bachelor's degree. So I had a, I was, I was gonna finish the philosophy degree in two years versus three or four years, like maybe someone who didn't have the, the the, the, the bachelor's degree prior. And so, so coming in with my own baggage of dealing with the family stuff, taking, I remember eight classes my first semester. Because we also had to take Aramaic class. We learn Aramaic rather than the, the Roman Catholic guys learned Latin. So we took Rome--we had to take Latin, I'm sorry--we take Aramaic. So we had to, besides all the philosophy classes, I had to also learn Aramaic. And there was also another Chaldean, like spirituality. So like our Eastern spirituality is different than like the Western spirituality. And so, so there was eight classes and I'm like, I don't know. I, I don't know if I'm cut out for this. This is like, this is just too much. Like, and my mind was all over the place. I was like, you know, I'm, I'm sure I'm undiagnosed ADHD, not to make like a joke out of it. Like I can not focus already as it is. And it was, it was just just way too much going on. And I knew that, that God wanted me to depend on other people and I didn't want to do that. Corporate world just trains you to you're you're in charge. Just, you know, you run the show, you know, I was the supervisor and, you know, people don't, you know, like you don't ask for help and God humbled me. He was like, look, you need a lot of help. So humble yourself and ask people for help. And I asked Fr Paul Redmond. I don't know if I remember him. Yeah. So he was--I had, I had him and other guys in my classmates, like I made friends with them immediately. Like, they were amazing. They like helped me. They, you know, so God really wanted me to just get out of myself, get out of that, that, that, that selfishness, that, you know, that, that, that pride, right. Like, I don't want help, you know, I want to do this by myself.

Fr David:

Seminary does that so well, right. You do build--you come out of there with like, just a real, like friendship where you're able to depend on other guys. It's one of the great things. Yeah. And especially, I think the Chaldeans do a good job of that. Just building those friendships, that fraternity,

Fr Bryan:

You know we're too good sometimes, like we get nothing done because we're a social butterfly. It's like, just go in your room and yeah.

Fr Craig:

Well, in my time in the seminary, the first year I came in at the college house, you know, the houses are separated, so you have the college side, and then you have the graduate side of the guys who are doing the masters of NAD, and it's a little bit different. And the first year that I came in was hard for me as well, because I worked catering and worked until like three o'clock in the morning, sometimes slept until three o'clock in the afternoon, did my artwork. So to have a schedule where I had to like wake up at five 30 or six o'clock every single day, I was just was tired for a whole year. And in fact, I think I'm still tired, but I'm recovering. Yeah. Yeah. the next year I can't remember the exact number. It was like five or seven Chaldean guys came in, and the whole house just changed. It was such a different environment. It was fun. Everybody wanted to hang out--now on Thursdays and they still do it on Thursdays, where we have a whole house, a holy hour. And we all pray before the Blessed Sacrament. And then afterwards, many of the guys would go to a place called Oberg's here in the seminary. It's a hangout. It looks like a pub, but it's just a hangout for guys. You know, you can go and watch TV play games, and everybody would go there. Well, we started going to this one Chaldean guy's room because he had, drinks, he had a huge TV, it was fun. We started like renting, like movies from the eighties, like Jean-Claude van Damme and just watching the fight scenes that were really corny, playing them. It's like, we had like 25 guys in his room, like after the holy hour. And it was becoming a formation issue where they're like, you know, you guys need to go to Oberg's rather than separate yourselves. I mean, talk about hospitality. It just was a lot of fun. Yeah. And the environment that they brought to the house was, was, you could tell there was a difference to it. So I think there's a beautiful blessing to have that different right that's coming in. So maybe, you want to explain that a little bit? Because I mean, I can't--was it St. John Paul II that said something about, you know, the Eastern right is like the other half of the, you know, the other lung of the church and the two breathe together, you know, you want to explain a little bit like what an eparchy is, what, what is your right? All that different type of stuff.

Fr Bryan:

Yeah. yeah. Eparchy is just another word for a diocese, but it's an Eastern term--it's like an Eastern an Eastern term. There I just think of like, you know, we all know this here, but for those who don't know, like Catholicism is like in the umbrella. And then within, under the umbrella, there is all the different rights within the Catholicism. So Chaldean right is one of the 23, 24, 25 26?

Fr Craig:

Something like that. Come on.

Fr Bryan:

There's so many different rights within the Catholic church. And so and what, however, many of those 20-some rights are, are Eastern, some are Western and different. So we are just a different right under the Catholic umbrella. We follow the Pope. We--everything is the same. We have the same creed, everything we profess, we have stations of the cross, we have the Sacred Heart of Jesus devotion. We have priests,

Fr Craig:

Can a Latin right person go to your church and celebrate mass? So not celebrate like yeah--if you're just like laity and you're like, oh, I want to go to the Chaldean church.

Fr Bryan:

Absolutely. Yeah, I would, I would actually, yeah, I would, I would actually encourage it--in seminary, they would do that. They would, they would have like--visit different rights. So I would I would actually, you know, I would, I would really encourage if you've never been to a Chaldean right that--attend a Chaldean right mass, it's very beautiful. I'm not just saying that.

Fr Craig:

No, it's very beautiful. It's very beautiful.

Fr Bryan:

And it kind of like breaks up the, the, you know, you're just used to a certain mass, which is--the mass beautiful it's in it's all. But then just to be able to hear different words we had Fr Brett Brennan who wrote How to Save a Thousand Souls. He did a priest retreat for us, and then he attended our camp. So we, we celebrated Chaldean mass. He was like, and he was like, can I have this book? He like our mass book. He was like, these, these are, you know--so we say, and this isn't like, you know, to sound like, oh, we, we spoke with Aramaic, so we, we, some of the, some of the own words that we use in the Chaldean mass, although it's translated in English, there are some parts which are an Aramaic, which goes back to the time of Christ. Right. So we've preserved the Aramaic language. So we have masses that are in English with a little bit like 10% of that is an Aramaic/Chaldean, which Chaldean's a modern day Aramaic. And then there was a whole mass in Chaldean. And then there is masses in Arabic because of, we, we fled, I mean, we're Iraqi. We don't have our own country as Chaldeans. We, we stayed in Iraq. And so we automatically learn the language because of just the, the that's the main language in Iraq. Yeah. So the right is it's, it's, it's just different traditions. We still have the same words of institution that the Roman Catholic church has during their mass. And it feels similar, but it still feels really different if that makes sense.

Fr David:

It's, it's a very interesting, just I really like is going to Chaldean liturgy serve at one, or actually I did. I did. I served at, at a Chaldean liturgy once; two of my classmates who got ordained this past year with me--Fr Kevin and Fr Marcus.

Fr Bryan:

Okay. I was asking who, because we're not, you know, it was, it was Fr Perrin, then,

Fr David:

No, no, he was a year ahead of me. No. I entered with Fr Perrin, actually, we, we, we entered the same year. I got some stories about that, but another time, another time. But, so I went with Marcus and I served a Chaldean liturgy. And it was very beautiful. As you know, though, there's a certain--there's a couple of times, like after the the reading or before the readings or after, like, I think it's called the diptych, where you say bara humar, which is like, bless me, father.

Fr Bryan:

Good job!

Fr David:

So I went up there, I read the, the diptychs I think is what I did. And then I said bara humar afterwards, and I had like, all these people coming up to me afterwards asking, are you Chaldean? You don't look Chaldean!

Fr Bryan:

Because you did the "hu" very well. If you can do the "hu" yeah, that's hard, you know?

Fr David:

You got to get the little throat in there,

Fr Bryan:

Yeah, you got to get in the back of your throat, so good job. You impressed a lot of Chaldeans that day.

Fr David:

No, we did. We did those, you know, at the seminary, we would go to different parishes and sometimes different rights. And what I remember about that is that it seemed like there were different, like you said, there were sub-deacons that there were up there, there was a lot of different things going on, up in the sanctuary. And like, so what does--we already kind of talked about what a sub-deacon does and stuff like that, but yeah. Anything else? Do you want to explain about the Eastern right? I mean, you know, some people say, well, can't Eastern right priests get married? Is that so for, for your right?

Fr Bryan:

So in, in America and in the United States, we follow Pope Francis and what the you know, kind of what what's not kind of what's being done in the United States. So our priests are celibate. And even in Iraq right now there's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's not where, so back in the day, I think, because of need, that men were able to get married versus it was kind of open that, but there are other Eastern rights outside of the Chaldean, right. That do that, they're their-- the priests are able to get married. But in our--in the Chaldean right specifically, in Iraq and here in America, we don't, we don't follow--we we've, we practice celibacy for our priests. And we see, you know, obviously the fruits of it, right. That that I was talking to an Orthodox priest the other day who's married and has a kid, he came to a wedding and afterwards I was just like--I didn't even know him-- so I just met him that day. And he was like and he was like, and he was like, I'm Orthodox. I'm like, oh, nice to meet you. And I was like, and he was like, I'm married. I'm like, oh, wow. Any kids? He's like, yeah, yeah. I was like, how do you do it? He was like, I don't--he was like, let me just tell you, I have, I have a parish of 300 families. That's how I do it. Because if it was anything more than that, I have no idea. So he was like, we were going back. He was even like, kind of saying to me, like, don't give me too much credit because it's, it's, it's rough, right. To being married and having your own family and having a--and being a priest still, obviously we see the fruits of it on Bishop Francis, which is our, is our, our bishop, you know? And so maybe just the last thing I'll say about it is that we see the Archdiocese of Detroit as our older sister. So how that relationship--right, so Archbishop Vigneron and Bishop Francis--so you know, they're, they, they work with each other

Fr David:

And he came to Sacred Heart seminary too, like,

Fr Bryan:

Yes. Yeah. So Bishop Francis studied here as a seminarian he's on the board here for the seminary the, the, the board of directors. And so there is that, so there is that relationship between Archbishop Vigneron and Bishop Francis a bit--Archbishop Vigneron was at Bishop Francis' ordination as, as, as a bishop. So the relationship is there, they work very close with each other. Bishop Francis goes to Archbishop Vigneron often, you know, he sees him as a very wise, spiritual director-father, you know, he's been, you know, he's been a bishop for so long. So and I love that we had that relationship, like this relationship here at the seminary, right. We're able to work together. Yeah. Eastern, Western, you know--but it kind of brings things together and the Body of Christ that comes together. So that's our relationship with the Archdiocese of Detroit. It's, it's, it's, it's there and it's, it's strong.

Fr Craig:

Yeah. Which I think is really great. Cause it's not like you're just borrowing the seminary. Hey, can we just send our guys to classes?, But you come in your form the same way. And you know, you have to do a little bit of extra, like you said, learning Aramaic. And of course your, your practicum for mass and things like that is a little bit different, but for the most part, we're being trained the same way. I mean, would you say so?

Fr Bryan:

So yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And we could start our own house of formation and what that would look like, but what Sacred Heart does here is, it's just, it's phenomenal. Right? You didn't pay me to say that either. No, but it's great. The great, great relationship. You know, that the formatters here are very flexible, that the dean of studies is flexible to what our needs are. You know, how we, we celebrate when we do, when we celebrate baptism and confirmation, it's at the same time for the Eastern right where it's different in the Roman Catholic church. So in-- our classes can be a little bit different when it comes to the sacraments of initiation versus what, what we do actually, traditionally, we were, we would even give holy communion to little babies--that was hundreds of years ago. We, we don't do that anymore. But so like, you know, there is that flexibility. That's why it works.

Fr Craig:

That's so that's awesome. Those guys in the Archdiocese of Detroit who are of course Latin right, they're going to call me up as a vocation director if they're thinking about being a priest for the archdiocese, you know, what do guys who are in the Chaldean right, you know, what do they need to do? They're going to contact you; how does that all work out? Like, I'm sure it's a little bit different than, than what we're doing.

Fr Bryan:

As the prep, like as the application process, or just discernment?

Fr Craig:

You know, how do they get ahold of you? What kind of programs do you got? You know, what should a guy be doing before he's entering or discerning, you know, all that type of stuff. Yeah.

Fr Bryan:

I, my, so my office is in Bishop Francis's office and the, at the Chancery, which is in Southfield, so if anyone wants to get ahold of me I can be I can be contacted or our web, our--not our website, but it's vocations vocations@chaldeanchurch.org.

Fr Craig:

I'll put this in the notes in the bottom so that guys can get that.

Fr Bryan:

It. Yeah. And then I just, you know, I meet with men and just sit with them, try to meet with them every few months, kind of see what's going on in their spiritual life. We ask that a guy would, you know, spend--we don't, we don't accept guys right out of high school. I'm not sure if you do.

Fr Craig:

We do, that was me.

Fr Bryan:

That was you? Yeah, that explains a lot. So no, we just--but that, that gives us a couple of years to work with a guy to help him find a spiritual director, to, you know, help him about the scriptures, you know, what to do, give them some reading material you know, check in every few months, kind of see what's going on, how things are going. Maybe some areas that there needs to be some growth in virtue, push a guy, maybe to serve at his particular church. So all of the majority of our churches are in Metro Detroit.

Fr Craig:

How many are there? Because it's, I mean, it's a different demographic if you think about it. Yes.

Fr Bryan:

Yeah. So the majority of our--so we have eight active Chaldean churches in Michigan. We have two in Chicago, so that's our--like I just think of Michigan down. And so we have a mission parish in Boston, and then we have a mission parish in Florida. I'm forgetting the, the, the, the, the, the city it's in. But so these are just like 200 family, these mission parishes, but the, you know, like a lot of our parishes there were heavily populated. So we have like 3,500 families at St. Thomas

Fr Craig:

Truly having 3,500 people, not like, yeah, the books are wrong right.

Fr Bryan:

Right, right. Like these aren't--this is, you know, this is a this is yeah. Every week. So this is, what's--not every week, but this is what's going on as, as, so we had these big parishes. And as we you know, so, so just getting guys involved, go to, you know, teach, teach communion, you know, go, go work with a youth group. Like your, your pastor has to write a letter of recommendation. If he doesn't know you, then something's wrong. Something's wrong. Right. He's got to be the one who says, yeah, I know this man. He's a good man. He's a man of virtue. He's here on a regular basis. So just kind of cultivating that relationship with his pastor, but then at the same time, you know, entering into a relationship with us, like if, you know, I kind of see as like this discernment process, it's like dating, right. So you, are you a good fit for us? Are we a good fit for you because maybe they're, you know, so I think just in general, just kind of clarifying and helping that man to certain right. To direct the vocation, you know, and some guys are being called. They think they're being called a priest. And I'm like, as you have to, you know, sometimes say like, look, I, I love that you have the desire in your heart, but I'm here to kind of help you clarify that. I feel like the whole, I feel like based on what you're telling me in our meetings over the last year or so that you're moving in a different direction, you know? And so like have peace with that. Have that clarity again, we don't, we just want numbers, right? Yeah. We need, we need a man who is genuinely calling--where God is genuinely calling that person to, to be.

Fr Craig:

Yeah. And it's no judgment on anybody. I mean, we're just there to help people find their true vocation. And if it's not to the priesthood, we'll, then we want what's best for you. And, and what's going to bring most fulfillment and happiness in your life. So,

Fr Bryan:

Yeah, I would just say, so, like, I just look for three things, happy, holy, healthy priest, right. Just look for a healthy priest who is, you know, just getting out there and, and, and, you know, praying, and, and it's just joyful. Right. Joys. We all know it's a gift from the Holy Spirit. So to look always so rigid and angry and mean, you know, is probably not a sign that--you know, that, that, that, that--

Fr Craig:

Like a Janist? How come I can't say that?

Fr Bryan:

It's because you never struggled with it. The struggle's not real for you, it's real for me. I wasn't--I am a modern day Jansenist so,

Fr Craig:

Well, Fr Bryan, we're coming up on an hour here. I mean, is there anything that you would like to say, especially to a young men in the Chaldean, right. That you know, potentially have a vocation to the priesthood; any words of encouragement or anything that you want to direct them?

Fr Bryan:

Just men in general, even on the--even the non-Chaldean men, I would just say, like, we just need fortitude right now. Like the, the gift, the supernatural courage right now, the church is on fire, but not in a good way. Right. The church is on fire and it's literally on fire, not literally, but it's, it's it's and so we need men that are going to get in, go into the fire rather than run away from the fire. Right. And so that's the type of man I'm looking for. I'm sure it's a type of man you're looking for. And sometimes I think we think men are like sports and muscular and this and that. It's like, that does not constitute a good a man. Right. We just want a man who loves Jesus, who loves the church, who wants to defend the church and wants to get into the fire, get his hands dirty. I mean, it's not a place for, and I'm sitting in front of you too. It's not a place for you know, for, for for laziness right now, right. There is no place for laziness or to me, you know, just that being timid or we just need a holy boldness, right? We're just looking for men who have fortitude that comes from the Holy Spirit, that fortitude is like, we're--it's an uphill battle, but we, we want to fight for Jesus. And we want to fight for the holy Catholic church. We have the truth. And because we have the truth that's worth fighting for. So even if people are gonna not like you after a homily or whatever the circumstances, or if your parents are not going to agree with you about your discernment, a man's got to step up at the end of the day. And again, I don't mean that like be a man step up, no, but be, you know, ask for, for, to, to.

Fr Craig:

Be who you were called to be.

Fr Bryan:

And there was a challenge; several times, you said it right, that your girlfriend challenged you, right. In a good way, there were these challenges, but you were able to, you know, have that courage to step up. And that really is, that's the call, right? It's a call not to, not to easy, but to greatness. And, and it just--last thing I would say is the other thing is just, we're so used to being comfortable, right. That it's okay to be uncomfortable. We've got to get out of our comfort zone. There is no, there is no place in the church for men who kind of want to, you know, be laid back and so get uncomfortable within your parish. Now as a discerner, before you even come and talk to your vocation director and live out that primary vocation. And I promise this is the last thing, cause I told you Chaldeans, we go on and on--don't give me a microphone and expect--

Fr Craig:

No, this is great.

Fr Bryan:

The last thing: just silence. I said earlier, and I'll say it again. You know I was reading an article and it said there's three, there's three things that will prevent a man from finding his vocation: noise, fear and sometimes family and friends. So those are the three things. So if we, we don't let fear dictate our lives right. As men, we just, we, we don't fall for the devil's lies of, of, of fear, whether it's, I don't have what it takes. This is not for me. I can't do this. Look at my past. So we, we don't give into fear. We definitely--we need silence. That's the only way we're gonna hear God's voice. So to get out of the, the noise, the social media, all that stuff, and put that stuff away for a little bit to really be able to discern, and then just, you know, be careful of family, of frauds, cause as much as we think they have what's best for us, and they want what's best for us, that end of the day, they can get in the way, right. That it could be like, Hey, you're throwing your life away. You know, you have so much more that the world you can offer the world or so there's not a lot of encouragement out there, but there is so it's, it's like, you know, but the evil one doesn't want us to hear the voice of the Holy Spirit as well. So he'll use friends to maybe discourage us, or like, in my case, family members to discourage us those closest to us to feel like that anxiety and that, that, you know, that discouragement. So just those three things.

Fr Craig:

But even with that, God will bring you someone to help you along. And just look at Jesus's life--everything that you said Jesus went through, right? Jesus prayed all night in silence with his father. Jesus went to those uncomfortable places, touched people like lepers, who they were not supposed to touch and went into that awfulness in a sense, those who were marginalized went against the Sanhedrin and everything that was going on. And then lastly, even remember it says his his family is out there. He thinks he's crazy. He needs to eat. And he says this is my mother and my, and my family right here. Right. You know, those who hear the word of God and follow it. So Jesus is not asking you to do anything he hasn't done right? Well, Fr Bryan, Kassa, this has just been a wonderful time to be with you, and you brought so much to the table, so glad that you were here and to explain all these things for us. So maybe some other time you can come back and and kind of talk some more. Cause I, I think you got a ton of stories and a lot of wisdom to shut on upon us.

Fr Bryan:

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me, maybe next time you can give me two hours.

Fr Craig:

Yeah. Well, maybe! We'll do a part two. Thanks for being here!

Fr Bryan:

It's good to be here.

Fr Craig:

Fr David, did you want to end with anything? Did you have any last words that you wanted to say?

Fr David:

Just to, just to thank you to father Bryan for, for carving some time out of your busy schedule. I know it is busy and being able to just share some wisdom with, with us and men who might be considering a call.

Fr Bryan:

Thank you guys. Appreciate you.

Fr Craig:

Fr Bryan, you want to leave out with the prayer?

Fr Bryan:

Of course, father's name of the father, son Holy spirit. Amen. Holy father. We just thank you for this day. Thank you for many blessings. So much to be thankful for. We just ask you to send your Holy Spirit to be with us. Holy spirit, you are a spirit of truth. You're a spirit of enlightenment. You are a spirit of guidance. You are a healing spirit. So all the men who are listening, all those hard listening, we just prayed that, Holy spirit, you just touch all of our hearts that you bring wisdom. May all confusion be gone in the name of Jesus may. Any fear be gone in the name of Jesus. We just pray Lord that you just give us your spirit. So that way we can find that true fortitude that you call us to have. And Jesus, the good shepherd, just protect us your sheep. We know there are many wolves out there, not only physical wolves working through people, but spiritual wolves. So just be our good shepherd today and always through Mary's intercession and through St. Joseph, the Terror of Demons, father, son, and holy spirit. Amen.

Fr Craig:

Amen. Awesome, awesome prayer. I love it. Well, you've been listening to Men of the Hearts, a monthly podcast from the Archdiocese of Detroit office of priestly vocations. Join me and Fr David Pellican as we hear vocation stories from priests all over the archdiocese and eparchy and answer questions about discerning of priestly vocation. Tune in every month to wherever you get your podcasts and learn more at detroitpriestlyvocations.com. God bless y'all.