The primary focus of this discourse revolves around the transformative journey of Drea, the sober herbalist, who recounts her profound personal experiences that led to her current vocation. Drea elucidates the significant challenges she faced, particularly her battle with Lyme disease, which catalyzed her exploration of alternative healing practices after conventional medical avenues proved insufficient. In her narrative, she details the pivotal moment in an herb garden where a connection with the natural world prompted a reconsideration of her path, ultimately leading her to embrace herbalism without reliance on alcohol-based tinctures. This episode serves not only as a testimony of resilience and recovery but also as an invitation to contemplate the intricate relationship between healing, nature, and sobriety. Through Drea's insights, we are encouraged to reflect on our own journeys and the myriad forms of healing that exist beyond traditional frameworks.

Takeaways:

• Drea's journey to becoming a sober herbalist was catalyzed by her profound experiences with Lyme disease, which necessitated an exploration beyond conventional medicine.
• As a newly sober individual, Drea faced significant health challenges that traditional doctors struggled to diagnose and address effectively.
• The pivotal moment in Drea's healing came when she encountered Ayurvedic practitioners who offered her compassionate care and alternative remedies.
• Despite her struggles, Drea discovered that herbalism could be integrated into her sobriety, leading to a unique approach to healing without alcohol.
• Drea's transformative experience in the herb garden highlighted the profound connection she felt with the plant beings, emphasizing their supportive role in her healing journey.
• The conversation shed light on the importance of understanding addiction within holistic practices, underscoring the need for awareness among herbalists and practitioners.

Links referenced in this episode:

• theonotnau t.com
• thewaybetween@substack.com
• 
  
• soberherbalist.com

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Ayurveda
• Rosemary Gladstar
• Sober Herbalist

Foreign.

I'm Anthony Wright and I am your co host today on the Living Conversation with Adam Dietz.

And our guest today is Drea, the sober herbalist.

Welcome, Drea.

Thank you.

Welcome.

So we were talking before we started the.

The recording here, and you've been talking a bit about what your life experience has been, but how did you come to be a sober herbalist?

Yeah, thanks for asking that question.

Well, there's a couple different, you know, there's a couple different things that happened.

First, I got sober.

Right.

And then when I got sober a couple years after, I, you know, I was in active recovery.

And after a couple of years, I ended up just.

Somehow I ended up getting bit by a tick, which, where I lived in Northern California at the time, that was kind of a part of living out in the woods.

And I got bit by a tick, which I'd actually been bit many times.

So I'm not actually sure when it happened.

Right.

I got bit by a tick and I got Lyme disease.

And I was like, you know, mortally wounded.

You know, I had facial paralysis.

I couldn't talk.

I mean, I got really, really, really sick.

And I was only a couple years sober.

And I, you know, I went to doctors because what was happening to me was, like, really pretty profound.

Yeah, sounds like it.

Yeah.

And so I went like, what a normal person would do, go to a doctor and say, you know, what happened here?

What's going on?

I. I can't see out of one of my eyes.

I can barely talk.

I had a list.

I had facial paralysis.

I had all these physical.

They were.

A lot of them were neuromuscular and.

And cardiovasc and a lot of pain.

And I was like, what the heck's going on?

This.

It was like, really weird.

And so I got batted around, doctor to doctor, being, you know, they thought it was this, they thought it was that, they thought it was this, they thought it was that.

And so after about six months of this, I was like, pretty much at death's door.

And they basically just said, we can't find out what's wrong with you.

It must be in your head.

Here's some antidepressants.

Go away.

Yep.

And you stayed with us.

Yeah.

And so there I was, you know, and my husband, who I'm married to now, we were together then.

He, you know, he knew.

He noticed in town that there was this group of healers called Ayurvedic practitioners.

And Ayurveda is traditional healing from India.

And in my little town in Northern California, there Was a collective of ayurvedic practitioners that were running a by donation clinic.

And I was absolutely broke at this time.

I actually ended up having to go to my father to help me financially Because I had been living on credit cards While I was trying to find out what was the matter with me and could work.

I was on disability.

I mean, I went through the true.

The full ringer, right?

And I went to this small collective of ayurvedic healers who took my pulse and looked at my tongue and listened to me.

And they said, we can't diagnose you legally, we can't treat you legally, but we can offer you these.

These remedies and these suggestions.

And they wrote out a beautiful page of things that I could do.

And they treated me with respect, and they listened to me for a full hour.

And they surrounded me with a lot of attention and love and care.

And that was the turning.

The turning point of point of that illness.

And subsequently, I continued on with being able to start taking care of myself and getting out of pain and beginning to engage with what kind of care was going to be needed for something outside of an established, you know, medicine protocols and all that.

I eventually, with my luck, ended up at a doctor who was an herbalist.

And she just happened to be one of those people on the outside who had an established practice.

She still does.

But she was also an integrative practitioner in the sense that she knew about other modalities, Practiced herbalism.

As a doctor, you can do practice.

She gave me herbs.

I went and saw ayurvedic people.

I did yoga, breathing.

I mean, I just did a whole.

I did meditation.

I mean, I did every thing you could possibly imagine.

Pretty much, yes.

And my.

Luckily my father was helping me because I was like, look, I'm either gonna die or you're gonna help me out.

He had funds, he helped me out.

And that, you know, and that's how it all started.

And I got sober, but that's what happened to me.

And then I became a sober herbalist Because I went to her formally because it was expensive buying medicine from my doctor.

And at the time, my doctor never ever said anything about my.

The medicine that she was giving me.

It was like in the form of supplements and liquid extracts.

And she said to me, I know you're sober.

I have non alcoholic medicine.

And I didn't even know, like when she posed that to me, that it was a thing.

But then a couple years later, after I was better and I decided to go to herb school, Formally.

Which I happen to live down the street from, like, the oldest herb school in the country.

Oh, really?

Yeah, literally down the street from the oldest herb school in the country that was started by the most famous herbalist of all, Rosemary Gladstar.

So I went to that school, and the first thing that happened was that I was introduced to alcoholic medicine, which is tinctures.

Which are tinctures.

So that's.

The tincture means it's the.

The medium in which the herbal essences are dissolved and carried.

Yes.

Yeah.

And it's ethanol.

Yes, Ethanol, Alcohol.

Okay.

Yeah.

You don't necessarily want to get reinvolved into that.

Sounds like.

Well, I took them.

At first it was just drop doses, but even.

Well, yeah, and up to that point, I'm talking like nine years, I had not.

And I could say this with full conviction at that point, that for nine whole years I had never even had a drop of alcohol in my body.

I had no mouthwash.

I mean, I was very careful because, you know, I didn't want to relapse and I didn't want to go backwards.

And so, yeah, there I was in an herb school in what I thought was a healing modality and what I thought was a safe place.

Up until then, my experiences in the wellness world, becoming an ayurvedic practitioner, becoming a yoga teacher, you know, studying with swamis, meditate.

I had never encountered alcohol all the way through that entire seven years of my experiencing deep dive, you know, certifications, all the work I did.

It was that time at which I go to study formal herbalism.

And that I'm suddenly bombarded with this truth that I absolutely did not expect.

And that's what happened was that I started taking drop doses.

Because that's what we do in school is they.

We sit and we talk about herbs and you get a drop of it in your mouth and you experience it and you taste it.

And all of a sudden I was like, this is not.

This isn't going to work for me.

And so I was going to quit.

Right, Right.

I was going to quit and I was like, I can't do this.

I think I'm going to relapse.

And I. I walked into this gorgeous old garden at this school, and I was kind of saying goodbye and I was going to basically leave.

I was going to go to the office and say, you know what?

I don't think I can do this.

There's too much alcohol.

I didn't expect this.

I thought I was going to be drinking a bunch of menopausal that's what I thought that herb school was gonna be something totally mellow.

And it ends up being like this rowdy group of millennials on Tinder talking about hangover recipes and passing around alcohol.

I was like, oh, my God.

So I walk into this garden, and I'm, like, gonna say goodbye.

And I went in there, and I was so sad and heavy in my heart, but I was like, I know what I need to do.

I know what's the most important thing, and I'll.

And I'll be fine.

And I trust that I'm not supposed to be here.

And what happened was this garden just kind of surrounded me, and I was about to leave.

There's this beautiful old carved gate, and I was pushing the gate open to leave.

And ironically, this hops vine reached it reached down, and it caught my arm.

And if you.

And I always get the chills when I describe this, but if.

You know, that plant, it's very scratchy, and it has a.

You know, that's kind of how it clings and wraps, you know, but it's a.

And it's a bitter plant, you know, it's what they make beer out of.

Right?

And it reached down and caught my arm before I could leave, and it stopped me, and it, like, it forced me to hesitate.

And I turned around to the garden, and the garden just kind of like, spoke to me and said, don't leave.

You don't ever have to use alcohol again.

We'll show you how to go forward.

Don't use any alcohol.

You're the sober herbalist.

Don't leave.

Incredible experience.

That's the true.

The true story of how I became a sober.

Oh, that's so cool.

But, I mean, I've had an experience like this when I was 5 years old that I went outside.

My.

My parents had got a cabin in the woods between.

In.

On the river that separates Minnesota and Wisconsin.

And I went outside in the middle of the summer, and I felt the woods loved me.

And I've never forgotten that, but it sounds to me the same.

You had the same experience that.

The herbs love you.

They love you.

They really don't mistake about that.

Right.

That's such a touching story that you shared just now.

Like, just think about that.

Like, well, I had embraced by nature in a moment of vulnerability.

I had met the goddess Diana, the forest goddess, you know, because the.

You know, but I.

It was such a moving thing that I felt this love coming from the environment, from the red cedar trees and the wren singing in the woods and.

And the the odor of red cedar and juniper, and I've never forgotten that.

And it's, it's carried me my whole life.

So, and so I do want to talk about this.

We're coming up on a break.

So anything that you want to add, Adam, before we take our break?

I'm not sure it could fit in a break, but I do want to just mention that we're very happy to have you.

You know, you've been very supportive, you've been very supportive of our project and I think this is just excellent way to begin our, almost like an interview series along the way.

Because what we're seeing here is the conversation is growing, right?

We want the conversation to grow and when we, we welcome you here because you bring new life to the conversation and it really enhances the conversations.

That's what we're looking forward.

So I really appreciate you on that note.

So I'm Anthony Wright and you can get in touch with me by coming to my website, which is theonot n a u t.com and Adam, how can people contact you?

Yeah, I'm Adam Dietz and you can find me online on different socials at the Way between, especially on sub stack.

That's where most things filter through the way between@substack.com or you can also email me directly deeds adam, gmail.com and that's D I D I E T Z.

Get mixed up with that.

Thank you for clarify.

And then Drea, please, how can people contact you?

I'm simply@sberherbalist.com and all my contact, yeah, all my contact information is on there and you can pretty much find me on all the platforms at Sober Herbalist, all one word, lowercase.

Know the.

Sober herbalist dot com.

Correct.

Great.

All right.

Well, we're going to take a short break and be right back.

So stay tuned.

I'm Anthony Wright and I am your co host today on the Living Conversation with Adam Dietz.

Welcome.

And we are here with our guest, Drea, the Sober Herbalist.

Andrea, before the break, you were talking about your experience with Lyme disease and the treatment that western medicine just didn't make it.

And you were drawn to ayurvedic remedies, but then to herbal remedies.

But the problem with the herbal remedies was that the, the medium for carrying those herbal tinctures was alcohol.

And that didn't work for you.

And it was so striking to me to hear your experience in the herb garden because you had said the hop spine reached out to you and stopped you from leaving.

And how did you experience what those.

What the herbs, what the garden communicated to you?

What was your experience?

Well, it was a.

It was a crossroads moment.

I know.

I think people are pretty familiar with what a crossroads is, personal crossroads, where you just feel like, you know, you're put in a position and you have to make a choice.

And the choice is kind of heartbreaking and difficult.

And there's a forced letting go and.

And I.

And there's a.

You know, there's just a. Yeah, often it's this weird experience of having to weigh what's going on and make a difficult choice.

And anyway, and it usually involves your body and it involves some sort of like very, you know, there's a very mortal physical aspect to that crossroads.

But anyways, what I experienced was that I was heartbroken that I went to study, you know, herbalism and that.

And like I said, I thought it was going to be this, like, very nurturing, safe environment with all these elders and all this, like, really a lot of care and consideration and respect and, I don't know, security, I guess.

And then.

And then experiencing that actually there was a lot of, like, the environment was just not what I expected.

And so from the human, I had a. Yeah, I just was brokenhearted.

And so I was like, well, I think I'm gonna have to quit.

But I went into the garden first to kind of like connect with the plants because I had.

In herb school, I wasn't just a student.

I was also a garden apprentice.

And that's someone who does work in the garden directly in addition to studying with the herbs.

Like, we're.

We're in charge of the garden for that period of time, that 10 months.

So I had already been in there, like, weeding and weeping and connecting with that garden and its spirits and its beings.

And so I went in there with a broken heart.

The way you would maybe go into a community where you feel like you're safe and you can trust being vulnerable.

And I went in there kind of brokenhearted and sad and just like, I'm going to say goodbye now and thank you and I hope to reconnect with you somehow.

And.

And then.

And then it just was like there was an about face in terms of what happened.

That was the response from these beings was just sort of like, wait.

And it wasn't the first time that I had, like an awakening.

Oh, really?

No, it's just like what you were describing with your experience as a young child, being surrounded by this amount, immense care and the sensory experience of wasn't the thing.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, it's like.

It's a very overwhelming moment.

And.

And it's a spirit.

It's a spiritual moment in which you really are.

You're so open and you're vulnerable, and you're just like.

You're kind of like down on your knees in a way, spiritually.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well.

And it.

It.

From what it seems that the.

That connection with these plant beings.

I mean, in.

In Western idea, we thought, oh, they're just plants.

Right.

But they're beings.

They have a.

An energy, they have a modality, they have a.

A relationship, you know, And I think maybe normal human beings make an error there because we can walk around and the plants don't.

But, you know, I'm also.

What's coming to mind is the role that fungi play in developing a community.

In terms.

And what's his name?

Merlin Sheldrake, has written a wonderful book on the.

The.

The role that fungi play in forest communities.

But I'm also thinking about this, what I think has been called the largest living organism on the planet, which is an aspen grove which has thousands of individual trees.

But they're all connected in the root system, and they're one being, you know, so.

But it seems like that that was what your experience was in the herb garden.

You had made friends, and they let you know that they didn't want you to leave.

Yeah.

I have a question about that.

From everything you described, it actually reminds me a little bit when you take crossroads moment and this sense.

It just seems like you had such a sense of humility and humbleness to even be in that headspace in the first place.

It reminds me a lot of.

We talk about the book of changes, where you could use sincere energy or humble energy.

Could you talk about where your headspace was when you were kind of.

I feel like you were very open and you were very.

You were using humble energy.

Is that true?

I mean, yeah, because it's part of being like, you know, Anthony's question, the first, like, how'd you become a sober herbalist?

And I was like, well, the sober part came first.

And in the recovery, you know, program that I'm in.

Humility is a.

It's basically an important attitude or posture to always try and practice and.

And maintain.

But nothing like a moment of powerlessness or a painful truth or a recognition that you've been beat or something can't be won or it's not going to work to strike you in that position and to just put you there.

And so I was definitely in a humble moment because I realized the truth is that the disease of alcoholism for me is more powerful than my desire to stay in some program where the main conversation and the dominant paradigm of preparations was tincturing, you know, plants.

And that was the focus.

And so, yeah, the humility was the fact that I was like, I can't do this and this isn't going to work with me and let you know, it's like, this is too big of a risk.

I'm not willing to take it.

And that's the truth of it.

Like, I'm, you know, I've got to.

Paradoxical it was that the.

For you, as a sober person, had dealt with one aspect and.

And what you just said about this term.

Dis Ease, unease, disharmony, but that.

That was used as a medium for.

For carrying the healing tincture of these loving plant people.

Plant beings.

So how did you solve that?

Yeah, that's.

I was gonna ask something similar along those lines.

Like, that was the humble part.

Right.

So how you.

How did you practice sincerity now of going forward and acting like you must have had a lot of obstacles and.

And twists and turns along the way where you had to present and you had to be outgoing and you had to produce something like.

So this is the sincerity.

So we talked about the humble side.

Can you talk about the sincerity of you putting your work out there?

Yeah.

I mean, the sincerity came from the fact that I realized that it.

It's easy in that kind of situation to point a finger and to blame, which I'm absolutely, you know, capable of doing that and saying, like, you, you know, you didn't respect me and you didn't prepare for me and you don't understand sobriety.

You know, it's like.

And I did that for sure, you know, but the moment of sincerity was simply that I was like, oh, my God.

They do not understand alcoholism and addiction.

They do not understand substance abuse.

They do not understand why that I'm allergic to this alcohol and even in this form, I can' and shouldn't take it.

They just don't know.

So the sincerity came from this recognition that it was like I was holding something that needed to be shared because it was fault that they didn't simply that no one had shared with them in a way that they could maybe wrap their heads around in that context.

And it was like, well, there's no one talking about this.

What a wonderful opportunity, though.

I know.

And my teachers, who were famous herbalists, very important in the field, very important in the profession.

They told me, don't ever.

And they said it without even really, totally knowing that I was sober.

I think they were just speaking to the class.

They didn't know us all as individuals.

And they were like, don't ever give a tincture to an alcoholic because you could cause a relapse.

They did say that, but they said nothing more.

And I was, like, trying to raise my hand and say, like, what are you doing?

When I asked that question to them, do you know what they said?

Nothing.

They did not have a full.

They didn't have an answer.

And that's when I knew, like, I knew I was the sober herbalist.

And, like, when I became that person or that brand, I had a question, right?

And it's like, all good research projects begin with a question.

And it was like, there you go, Drea.

Now find the answers, you know, And I'm still doing that.

And luckily, I have a very good education.

I have a few degrees under my belt, including a master's degree in rhetoric and composition and an interdisciplinary degree in, you know, in the liberal arts, you know, from Hutchins School and.

Oh, that's right, you're a Sonoma State alumni.

Yeah.

How cool.

So I. I had a whole bevy of, you know, I'm a punk rocker, an artist.

I had all these different aspects of my being in which to just sort of like, begin to pour into this question and this.

This, like, experience of inquiry.

Great.

Do we have time for another question, Anthony?

Well, we have to take a short break and we'll be right back.

I'm Anthony Wright, and you can get a hold of me through my website, Theonot n A-U-T.com and Adam.

Yes, you can contact me by my email deets.

Adam gmail.com d, I, e t z. Adam, one word or the way between@substack.com has all my links and socials and work over there.

Great.

Andrea, how can people contact you?

Soberherbalist.com that's it.

All my stuff's on there.

All right, well, we're going to take a short break and be right back, so stay tuned.

Sam.