Starting Counselling: Genis' Story

In this episode MaryLayo and guest, Genis Fernandes, discuss seeking help, finding a counsellor and highlight some of the frustrations and benefits they experienced on their journey.

Concluding with a touch of spiritual wellness, MaryLayo offers a reflective tip from Philippians 4:13, inviting listeners to join her next time for more insights on mental health and spiritual wellbeing. Remember to follow and share if you enjoyed the conversation about finding a counsellor.

Take a moment to delve into what may be 'beyond the smile' - listen in to the conversation. For help in dealing with mental health related matters, please seek specialist advice and support if needed.

Questions include:

• Why did you consider counselling?
• How did you go about choosing your counsellor?
• What do you remember when you first had counselling?
• How long have you been having therapy?
• What frustrations have you experienced or heard about counselling?
• What tips would you give someone who is in two minds about having counselling?

Guest details:

Genis Fernandes works as a Research Programme Lead and also serves as a volunteer for a mental health charity.

Marylayo's spiritual wellbeing tip: Meditate on the bible scripture Philippians 4:13.

External resources:

Body and Soul Charity

The Caravan

Listening Place

Samaritans

For help in dealing with mental health related matters, please seek specialist advice and support if needed.

#BeyondTheSmile #StartingCounselling #MaryLayoTalks #MentalHealth #GettingHelp #HavingTherapy

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MaryLayo: Welcome to beyond the smile with me,

MaryLayo, a podcast that discusses mental

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health and spiritual wellbeing.

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If you like what you hear, please do remember

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to follow and share.

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But before we jump in, there may be episodes

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that are particularly sensitive for some

listeners.

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And if that applies, then I hope you will join

me whenever you feel ready and able.

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In today's to episode, we're discussing

counselling, and I'm talking to guest Genis

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Fernandez about her journey in seeking help

and making that personal investment.

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Genis shares about the different things she

considered along the way.

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But to start off with, I asked Genis when and

why did she consider counselling.

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Let's join in the conversation first.

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Consider having counselling.

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And why did you consider counselling?

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Genis: So, going back to two years, I had

quite a few things going on in life in

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general.

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There was particular events like changing

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jobs, having new friendships, relationships

that felt a bit overwhelming because I moved

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here around four years ago.

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So my social system.

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MaryLayo: So you moved from another country to

the UK?

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Yeah.

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Genis: So I moved from India around four years

ago and my social support system, my close

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friends, of course, weren't around and

although I have family, they were not very

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close by as well.

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So I think a lot of changes did happen at that

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time for me.

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And I had a lot of, I don't want to say novel

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feelings, but that were unfamiliar to me.

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Like, I started feeling a bit too anxious, a

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bit too overwhelmed, a lot of rumination, a

lot of thoughts that were going really way out

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of control.

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And I felt like, okay, this is getting a bit

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too much for me to handle, and I probably need

some external support or another perspective

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to kind of navigate through what's going on.

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So although the thought of even considering

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counselling came about two years ago, I

actually, from the thought to actually going

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into my first therapy session was, I think, an

eight month gap.

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So it was quite a long time that I had.

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I thought about it, kind of found someone and

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actually went into my first session.

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So quite a few factors.

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Yeah, sure.

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MaryLayo: I would kind of say that my

experience is a little bit similar to yours,

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but I think mine probably built up.

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So I think that because there was a lot of

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change or a lot of different things that was

going on at the time, they probably

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accumulated and became more intense than I

realised.

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That's what I think.

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So I started noticing things that would, I

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would say was uncharacteristic of myself.

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Genis: Exactly.

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MaryLayo: And I realised, and one of the

things that I felt was that my resilience had

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been stripped.

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Genis: Oh, yes.

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MaryLayo: So, yeah, so things that I felt that

I would normally and quite easily cope with.

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I wasn't coping and managing it the way I

would normally do.

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I was sending myself messages about how I felt

within.

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And one time when I was explaining this to

someone, I got really emotional because I

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connected it with like, I would say like a

life changing event.

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And while I was explaining it how since then I

felt different in terms of my resilience.

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I then realised, you know, what I was advised

actually at the time with the people I was

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sharing it with that I needed.

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I really need to get some help with this.

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And I'm quite surprised actually because given

the fact that I'm this mental health advocate,

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I'm surprised that it's taken me this long to

actually, you know, go for therapy.

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And in terms of time scales we're talking

about summer last year.

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Okay.

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That's when I. Yeah, that's when I first

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considered having counselling.

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And I don't know why I didn't think about it

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sooner because I think it's something I would

have benefited from a lot earlier.

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Genis: Yeah.

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MaryLayo: So Genis, you mentioned about how

there was a lot of different things so you

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couldn't attribute it to being one, I guess,

event or issue.

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So how did you actually go about even choosing

your counsellor?

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Genis: Yeah. So for me personally, I needed

someone who had some experience with

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multicultural counselling.

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Because like I mentioned, since I moved here,

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I did understand that I needed someone who

understood my background, my value system, my

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thinking, for example, why I attribute a lot

of things to my parents or why I would need a

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lot of.

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I would not need to explain someone, give them

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a lot of context as to why I do things the way

I do.

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So I wanted someone from back home.

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So I was looking at basically counsellors who

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did sessions worldwide or like did tele

psychology quality telecounseling.

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So looking at the second most important thing

that I was looking for is their expertise.

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So are they specialised in certain things?

Like for me it was like trying to figure out

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where these, where the anxiety is coming from.

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So kind of looking at specialisations within a

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particular area as well.

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And also like their academic background

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because I myself have an academic background

in psychology.

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So I kind of understood like therapists and

their training.

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So I just wanted someone who kind of got that

expertise or who would be competent enough to

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just help me with the whole process, really.

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So I even reached out to friends, I knew a

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few, couple of close friends who were in

therapy as well.

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So just checking recommendations from them,

talking to them.

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How did they have kind of the process they

went through as well really helped.

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And even asking referrals from friends, like,

is there anybody would suggest, but of course

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you want to make sure it's not someone they

know personally just because of conflict of

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interest, of course.

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But you could also, there are websites that

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have like a directory of therapists as well.

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Like in the UK, if you want to go down the NHS

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GP route, you could always reach out to your

GP and get a referral to the NHS.

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There's charities like Samaritans and mind

that could always signpost you to therapists

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as well.

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But personally, for me, was doing my own

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research and reaching out to friends and

getting in touch with them, having

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conversations, like, sometimes I even felt

like you're going to call a few, you're going

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to reach out to a few and sometimes it might

not be something that you're looking for,

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which is fine, and they might be busy or we

are overbooked, but that's okay, you can just

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keep looking and someone always wrecks.

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MaryLayo: So, yeah, when I went for

counselling and how I actually found the

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therapist was through my workplaces employee

assistance programme.

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But like, what you said about, you know, just

like your values and for example, the cultural

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differences and how for you it was important

to find someone who.

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It wasn't going to be hard work for them to

understand where you were coming from.

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That's something actually, that I think a lot

of people actually have at the back of their

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minds.

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And I say that because even when I was looking

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for a therapist, I remember asking a few

questions, you know, or even me thinking, oh,

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it'll be ideal if this therapist could or have

this like a background, just in terms of,

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like, values.

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When I say values, as in christian values,

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because those are the very strong values that

I have.

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And, like, you reminded me about a

conversation that I had with a friend who's,

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who's a Muslim.

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And one of the things that she said when she

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was looking for a counsellor or when she was

having counselling was just the importance of

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someone who actually understood her religion,

her faith, as well as her culture.

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So I think that has a part of a strong part to

play for some people, just the sense that they

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want someone who can understand where they're

coming from.

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They don't have to try and explain, so that

someone understands why they think the way

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they do, why they behave the way they do, why

they make certain decisions.

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Because your background, your perhaps your

faith, your values, they all shape why you do

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things, why you say things or what decisions

you make and having someone that you're going

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to talk to that can understand that and not

judge you or not try and think, or not try and

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work out the why, you know, beforehand does

help, or could help, I think.

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But I mean, saying that I had a counsellor who

didn't have, you know, I don't know, actually

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their background, but I found it still

worthwhile.

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So I do need to add that in, actually.

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Genis: Yeah.

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MaryLayo: So what can, what can someone who

hasn't actually had counselling, they haven't

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gone to a therapist, what can they expect if

they were actually going to go down that path?

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So do you, like, do you remember when you

first, you know, you had your first session

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with your therapist and.

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Yeah.

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What did you, did you have any expectations?

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Genis: It takes me back to quite a few

feelings and emotions, really, because I

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remember for my therapy session, I felt very

anxious and very nervous about the session

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itself because I was like, this is somebody

who doesn't know me at all.

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And getting very vulnerable in front of them

and talking about things that are very

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personal to you can be very overwhelming and

you need to have some level of, or you build

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that trust with your therapist and you build

that comfort level with them.

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So even the first one feels very daunting.

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And that's very normal because this is someone

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very new to you.

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So it's okay if you feel overwhelmed, you feel

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nervous, you feel anxious, that's completely

fine.

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But you go into the session just taking them

one basic thing as to what got you there.

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That's one question that I just thought about.

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Okay, why am I here?

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You know, what am I trying to get out of this?

So, I think something that you gotta expect is

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answering that question.

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They're gonna ask you that no matter what you

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kind of want to bring to the table or not.

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But I think it's also important to remember

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that you are in control of the session.

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You, it's all for you, and you've made this

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decision.

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So it's all going to be whatever you want that

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session to be.

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You could be there in silence and tell them

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one word or one sentence and let them brief

you on what the expectations are or what you'd

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like to talk about, or when you want sessions

to be arranged.

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It could be partly admin related, but could

also be talking about things that are really

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on your mind.

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You could even use your first session to kind

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of even talk about, of course, what got you

there.

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But if there's anything you're comfortable

sharing beyond that, I think they're always

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happy.

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Happy to hear and happy to help you.

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But no, I think other than that, the first

session for me was just being open and honest

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with the therapist because that just, I felt,

really helped me to get the most out of the

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session.

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So I did take some time to prepare for it.

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I did.

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Did a lot of reflection.

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A day before, a week before, definitely.

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I think because I was like, for your first

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session?

Yeah, I think I'm impressed.

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MaryLayo: That's really good.

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Genis: I just felt like I was mentally

prepared because I said, like, it was eight

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months till that.

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I got myself at the first session started a

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lot of thinking in between, a lot of questions

that I wanted myself to get in to make peace

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with before I went to that session.

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And I think one thing that really stays with

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me after my first session was what my

therapist told me just after we ended the

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first session.

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She was like, most courageous thing you've

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already done is getting yourself to the first

session.

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That's the big step.

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So beyond that is just you showing up for

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yourself and doing the work that you want to

do.

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So in a nutshell, that's kind of what the

first session is going to feel like.

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But it depends on person to person.

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For someone, it could be completely different.

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Like you're all ready to talk about everything

and address some things or not on the complete

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opposite spectrum, which is fine, you know,

we're all different.

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We're all going to have a different experience

and that's okay.

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MaryLayo: So, Genis, like you've been seeing

your therapist for how long now?

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Genis: It's been.

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It's been a year now.

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MaryLayo: A year.

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And how often do you see your therapist?

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Given that I know she's not in the UK.

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It's a she, isn't it?

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I'm right in assuming that, yeah.

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Genis: So initially it was every three weeks,

but now I do it every four weeks.

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Like around once a month.

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MaryLayo: Okay. Okay. And obviously this is

remotely.

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Genis: Yes, remotely.

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We use, of course, we use video conferencing

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platforms like Skype.

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So I think that's the best part about tele

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psychology now.

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It gives you so much access to anyone across

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the globe and it's at your pace, at your time.

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So of course, time schedules are something

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that we need to consider.

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But that's one of the cons.

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But it outweighs them.

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MaryLayo: So you've mentioned about how you've

been meeting with your therapist.

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Let's just say once a month, averaging once a

month.

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And that's very convenient given that it's on

a video conferencing platform, you don't have

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to leave your doorstep, you don't have to

travel through it.

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So those are some of the perks in terms of the

way that you've been doing your counselling,

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having your counselling sessions.

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So what have, or what are, if you have any or

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if you're comfortable sharing, what are some

of the frustrations or even challenges that

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you've experienced or you may have heard

about?

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Genis: Yeah, of course.

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I think the number one that I've heard about

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with close friends and family is finding a

therapist because although you know you want

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one, finding one can be very difficult because

of course you don't want, you want someone who

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kind of fits your personal needs, someone that

kind of fits around your schedule as well.

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And of course your price range if that's

something you're concerned about.

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Also, you need to find someone that you're

comfortable with, I think, and you trust

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because that's another very important part of

therapy, because you're being very raw, bare,

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vulnerable in front of this person.

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And to make the most out of your sessions, you

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have to be able to trust them to get into

these conversations and have very discuss

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sensitive topics and you have to be

uncomfortable with them and be as open and

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honest as possible.

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So I think those are the two things that I've

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seen that are pretty common that people

experience trying to find therapist and find

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someone who you can be very comfortable and

trustworthy with.

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I think another thing that I would say that I

found is, in terms of therapy itself, is

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overestimating the time of impact that they're

going to see.

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I think sometimes you assume that, okay, two

sessions, three sessions are going to do the

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job, okay, I've done the work.

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I'm all okay now.

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I kind of, I can manage myself, I'm all good.

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But I think that's kind of an assumption.

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Sometimes it might work.

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Sometimes like, you know, you're good, you're

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consistent with the work that you need to do

and you see the changes, but sometimes it does

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not because life happens and you fall back

into old habits and you fall back into old

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patterns, but then you have to remind yourself

and keep doing the work to see long term

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impact.

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So the impact is another thing that you might

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have an assumption about or an estimation

about, which might not work, which might be a

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bit frustrating because you're putting your

time and energy into it and you might think,

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oh, but why is this not working?

Why is this taking so long?

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Which is fine, it's okay to have those

feelings and those thoughts because you don't

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want to see change.

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And if it's taking time and it is frustrating,

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that's fine, but you just need to be a bit

patient, a lot of patience with yourself.

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And I think another one that I've personally

experienced in therapy is talking about

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sensitive subjects.

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Like I said, you need to build that trust with

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your therapist.

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So getting things to the table might seem a

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bit, oh, can I talk about this?

Is this something I can talk to my therapist

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about?

Will they be comfortable talking about this?

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So I think that's something that I personally

struggled with.

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But then I realised over time, the more that I

keep things inside, that's where the problem

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lies.

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And the things that you don't talk about

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actually are the things that will set you free

or kind of give you that inner peace you're

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really longing for.

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So, although I've had these misconceptions

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about bringing things to the table, actually

telling or being honest with my therapist,

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saying, you know what, I don't know if I can

say this, but I'm just going to say this now

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and this is it.

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So I don't know what to do about this.

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So just navigating through building that trust

in the relationship with your therapist is

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another thing I've personally struggled with.

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But, of course, every experience is personal

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to everyone.

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But I think these are the couple of things

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that have come up for me and others.

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MaryLayo: I mean, you've mentioned trust and

being honest with your therapist a few times,

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and I think that's important.

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I definitely think that's important, too.

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Let me ask you a question.

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What would you say?

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And I think, I don't think you've experienced

this because you've had the same therapist for

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about a year, but if someone, like, they

started on that journey with a therapist, but

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they didn't feel comfortable with them, they

hadn't, you know.

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Yeah, they.

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I guess they had trust issues, or they have

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trust issues.

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Would you say to stick with it?

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Or would you say, you know, at the end of the

day, it's your time, it's your money,

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potentially find someone else, you know, like,

how patient should someone be?

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How patient should someone be?

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Genis: So think about that.

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I think it's all up to the person.

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If you feel uncomfortable, if you feel this

is.

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Something's not working right from the start,

there's nothing stopping you saying, you know

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what, thank you for the first session, but I'd

like to explore or find someone else because

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something's just not sitting right with me.

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And that's fine because you need to remember

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that this is your time.

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This is your personal experience.

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These are your feelings, your thoughts.

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So if you're feeling uncomfortable that

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something's not sitting right with you, that

is fine.

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You can be open and honest to them about it,

about how you're feeling and find someone

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else.

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It's okay to kind of find somebody else that

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fits better with you because you're going to

be spending 1 hour with them, talking about

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yourself and things that are on your mind.

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And if you want to get the best out of it,

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it's best to find someone that matches you

with how you're feeling in that space.

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And you need to feel very safe in that space

with this person.

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Yeah, that's what I would suggest to someone.

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MaryLayo: Yeah, no, and I agree with you.

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I do agree that it's important to find someone

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that you are comfortable sharing with, you can

talk to.

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And it's something that I like.

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While you were talking, I was almost like

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playing back a conversation I've had with a

friend who used to, I guess, complain about,

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you know, a therapist she was seeing and how.

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Yeah, I guess she just wasn't so happy.

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But saying that, I think after a while she was

also saying positive things.

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So it's probably good for that person to also

perhaps explore or maybe give it a. You know,

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give it some time, perhaps, you know, just in.

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You know, just in case it can.

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It can change.

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Yeah, but like you said, it's down to the

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individual and.

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Genis: Yeah, yeah, of course.

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Like in the very first instance, if it feels

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something feels off, of course find somebody

else.

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But like you said, you know, sometimes it just

probably you need time to get used to that.

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Of course, it's a new relationship you're

trying to build with someone, a therapeutic

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relationship.

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And sometimes even talk about transference and

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counselling where like, you project your

preconceived notions and your fears onto your

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therapist or vice versa.

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So probably that's something that's happening.

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But then again, if you raise it with your

counsellor, probably you can navigate as to

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where that's coming from, you know?

So I think even at the bottom of having such

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an experience as well, is talking about it to

your therapist, because that's the best way to

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get the bottom off it.

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If you really need to find somebody else or

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it's just an internal struggle or something,

that you need to work with them.

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So.

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MaryLayo: Yeah, so, like, one of the things I

noticed when I had my time with a therapist

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was you mentioned about patience.

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Cause I had to be patient.

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You know, I remember, like, I think I like,

even week four, week five, I was still

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thinking.

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I was still going into those sessions

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thinking, oh, what is this doing for me?

You know, is this really helping?

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You know, this might, this.

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Now I have my time, my busy schedule that

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don't have, you know, because I wasn't really

seeing the benefits.

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And it was only, I think the turning point for

me was session five, you know, and then I

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started actually thinking, oh, this is really

good.

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This is really good for me because it was

giving me time to explore, evaluate, analyse,

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become more self aware.

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And when you're aware of things that you

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weren't previously really aware of, you could

then do something about it.

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If it's not positive, you know, if it's not

positive.

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And so I. It took me a while before I noticed

the benefits.

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So how long did it take, maybe even from the,

from the first session for you?

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Who knows?

But how long did it take before you noticed or

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have you noticed any, any benefits so far from

your therapy?

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Genis: Of course.

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Like, I think after, I was so optimistic about

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therapy in itself.

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So after my second session, I was like, wow,

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this is brilliant.

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The homework's working, I'm doing so well.

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And after two or three months, of course, life

happens and you dip.

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And I was like, wait, hold on.

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Actually, this is coming back.

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This is.

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Something's not right again.

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So I think for me, it comes in waves.

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Like, I still feel I'm still growing and still

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learning so much about myself.

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Like you spoke about self awareness, which I

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think is so something that I relate to a lot.

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I've become so self aware since this journey.

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A lot of reflection and has kind of taken

place along these months for me.

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And I think it's still happening.

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It's still a journey.

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It's still.

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It's still a process.

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But I think after six months or so, that's

when I really feel, okay, this is, this is

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going in the right direction.

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This is something I need to work on.

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These are my, these are the things that really

need my attention right now.

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These are the things that are blocking, uh,

blocking me from being my best self, for

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example.

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So, yeah, you kind of, you kind of learn your

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way of processing things and learning about

yourself in therapy.

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I wouldn't say it's a timeline for anyone.

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It could be one session or two sessions for

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you, or it could be your 8th or 9th or in five

months.

430

You never know because also depends on the

type of therapy you're even in.

431

So it's been, it's been an interesting journey

so far.

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Yeah.

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MaryLayo: And what would you say has surprised

you the most about your counselling journey?

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Genis: Surprised me the most, I would say the,

the non judgmental aspect of it.

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It's going and sitting with someone and

talking to them about your thoughts, the way

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you think about why you do things, the way you

do things sometimes, or explaining life in

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general.

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And they will take it as it is.

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There's no judgement from them, there is no

opinions, no labelling that takes place that

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makes you feel inferior, or there's something

wrong with you, or there's something that

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needs to be fixed.

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It's that attitude or that safe space that

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comes with therapy.

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Something that really surprised me.

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Although in theory, I kind of knew that would

happen.

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But in practise sitting there and be like,

wow, okay, I can talk about that and not feel

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ashamed about it, I think that's one thing

really surprised me.

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And also that the time it gives you it

yourself, the focus is all about all the

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things happen in life and you're taking them

to your therapist.

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It's all about, okay, but how, how I, what,

what's my role in this event?

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So the focus that's kind of redirected to you,

I think, is something that I did not expect.

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I think those are the top two things I would

say that kind of really surprised me with

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therapy.

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MaryLayo: What tips would you give someone

who's in two minds, you know, about having

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counselling based on your own experience?

Um, like, for me, I don't know why it took me

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so long.

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Let's put it that way.

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Yeah, I think.

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I think back in the days, um, I. There was,

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you know, I probably had this stereotype of,

you know, you had to be some sort of person,

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you know, that really needed help.

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You know, you had issues to go for therapy.

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However, that's changed over time.

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But what would you say if someone is in two

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minds, what would you say to them based on

your own experience?

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Genis: My first very straightaway answer would

be, do it.

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But I understand it's not as easy as it

sounds.

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For me myself, it took me eight months from

the intention to action.

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And there are various reasons as to why that

happens.

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Sometimes you're trying to find some person,

or even for me, I felt like I was not in the

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headspace to talk about it.

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Sometimes things get too heavy and you're not

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just ready to put it into words and explain to

somebody else what's going on internally,

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which is fine if you think you need some space

to get yourself together.

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And then when you're ready to talk about it

and you want to take it to someone, that's

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fine too.

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But in that space I would also say make sure

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you're not isolated, make sure you're not

alone.

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Talk to a trusted friend, a family member or

somebody is out there who can listen to you

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basically.

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But when you are ready, do it because it's

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something that's going to help you.

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There's no con to going into therapy because

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this is something you're doing for yourself

and for nobody else really.

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This is.

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It's like a personal investment in yourself, I

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would say.

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So be patient with yourself through the

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process because it's not going to be easy,

it's going to be very uncomfortable.

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But it's definitely something I would

recommend to someone who's in two minds

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because I get it.

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Like, Mary, you mentioned stigma as well.

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Like even self stigma and personal stigma

comes into play.

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Like, should I. Is this something I want?

Is my problem that big enough that I need to

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take it to therapy?

Is it something wrong with me?

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All of these things?

Of course I felt those things too.

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But then you need to realise everyone's

threshold for tolerance of things that happen

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in life is different.

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And it's okay, you know, it's all part of the

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human experience.

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We're all going to have good days, we're all

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going to have bad days and sometimes it's

manageable, sometimes it's not.

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So. But there's always someone out there who's

waiting to listen and it might be your next

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therapist.

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So give it a good thought.

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Definitely go for it.

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MaryLayo: Thank you, Genis. No, I'm.

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I like what you've said about how, you know,

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it's all part of the human experience and

certainly give it some thought.

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As for you, you've gone down this route and

you're.

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There's no. There's been no regrets.

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So.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, brilliant.

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All right.

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Thanks, Genis, for explaining and just

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sharing about your experience and how it's

benefited you.

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Genis: Thank you, Mary.

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MaryLayo: Here's a spiritual wellness tip for

you.

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Meditate on Philippians, Romans 413, which is

one of Genes’ favourites.

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And it reads, I can do all things through

Christ who strengthens me.

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Thanks for listening.

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Do follow and join me again next time on

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beyond the smile with MaryLayo.