Artwork for podcast Write 2 Read Podcast
Page Two with Leia Talon, Novel & Game Author
Episode 2 • 18th December 2023 • Write 2 Read Podcast • Liv Macy
00:00:00 00:43:26

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0:00 Welcome

0:12 Page Two

1:25 Bit of Randomness

4:07 Beyond the Blurb

4:48 Book Spotlight #1 - FOREVER AFTER ALL by Shelby Storme

Bio: Shelby Storme is a romance author making magic out of the mundane. When she’s not writing swoon-worthy small town romances, she’s wrangling her two slightly feral, yet adorable children, coaching gymnastics, and freelance editing in the small town of Uvalde, Texas.

Amazon Link: https://a.co/d/9f1tjiA

7:12 Book Spotlight #2 - DON'T MESS WITH THE MISTLETOE By Peggy Jaeger

Bio: Peggy Jaeger writes romance stories about strong women, the families who support them, and the men who can't live without them.

Amazon Link: https://a.co/d/057m5uQ

8:56 Book Spotlight #3 - GEMINI QUEEN by Laura Navarre

Bio:Bestselling paranormal romance author Laura Navarre writes extra-spicy, extra-shifty, wild & witchy why-choose romance starring hot bi heroes and the badass women who love them. With seventeen sexy stories released worldwide, this cat-loving, wine-drinking Washington DC-based nomad whisks you away from your ordinary day into a magical secret world inhabited by Zara Gemini and her sword-crossing warlock harem. Escape into the Witching World at https://reamstories.com/witchingworld/public

Amazon: https://a.co/d/iyJaUUg

10:32 Liv Macy Author Updates and Information

Website: www.livmacy.com

12:16 Episode Sponsored by Liv Macy

14:00 Conversations around the Laptop - Interview with Leia Talon, Heart's Choice Writer

Bio: Leia Talon writes fantasy and speculative fiction with romantic elements. Her lyrical approach is influenced by a lifetime of turning emotions into poetry and songs. She lives in the mountains of British Columbia, where nature sparks her imagination to run wild.

Hearts Choice Link: https://www.choiceofgames.com/hearts-choice/their-majesties-pleasure/

41:28 Industry Information

43:03 Exit

Transcripts

Speaker:

Welcome to Write to Read podcast,

a page in the life of an author.

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I'm Liv Macy, and these are my pages.

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This is page two.

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And I cannot wait for you to hear

my conversation this week with

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Leia Talon, who is in the middle of

writing her second hearts choice game.

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I also want to say thank

you for being here.

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Uh, because, , editing and

recording and rerecording has been.

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A little frustrating at times.

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Because this is all new to me, obviously.

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The technology is new.

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The platforms that I'm using are new and

the time that it has taken me to do some

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of these interviews and the episodes.

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And all that it entails has been.

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Quite an experience.

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Um, But I just want to say thank you

because it makes it worthwhile to

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know that you were there listening.

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That you are wanting to

spend 45 minutes or so.

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Of your precious time to.

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Listen to me and listen to the authors

that come on here and to talk about

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their books or to be interviewed.

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About their lives or their experiences.

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And yeah.

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Thank you.

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I hope you enjoy this episode.

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And I hope you happy, wonderful week.

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this week's bit of randomness.

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is going to make you laugh.

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at me.

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I was at a doctor's

appointment this past week.

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And the nurse tech asked me.

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About a timeline.

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I mentioned that I am 42.

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And so it must have been

X amount of years ago.

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At the very strange look to her face.

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I kind of, you know, Raised an eyebrow.

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And she said, . Did you say you're 42.

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And I thought about it for a split

second and said, yes, I am . And

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here mind you, I'm thinking.

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You know, she's maybe going to go,

wow, you look great for your age or.

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Something along those lines because.

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When those types of things happen

to me, I default to my ego.

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And I think to myself, There's

no way I could have screwed up.

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It must be, it must be a

compliment coming something.

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I think that's a defense mechanism,

but that's neither here nor there.

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And so I confirmed that I am indeed 42.

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And the nurse.

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The nurse tech proceeds to tell me that.

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I'm not 42.

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And.

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I kind of laughed and thought to myself,

Did she just tell me I'm I'm not my age.

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And so.

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She says you're, you're

not, you're not 42.

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I've looked at your date of

birth when I was entering your

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information into the screen.

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And you're not 42.

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And so I think back real quick,

because I have a fall birthday and I'm

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thinking, okay, well, That must be it.

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I must be 43 and I just turned

43 and I just don't remember.

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You know, to update myself when I'm

saying I'm 42 all year long, you

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know, there's always that time period.

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And so.

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I say that to her.

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And she looks at me even more strangely

and says, ah, No, ma'am you are 44.

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I'm not exactly sure how long

I've been telling people.

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I'm 42.

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And I'm not exactly sure why, because

I've never been one of the women

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who, you know, stops aging at 28.

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I've never been that lucky.

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And so.

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Uh, I'm not really sure.

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What happened?

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And I can only default to

the fact that during COVID.

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I seem to have lost a couple of years

and that's what I'm sticking to.

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So if you're.

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Laughing at me hysterically.

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You're welcome.

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And if not, I'm sorry, we

probably don't have the same

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type of humor and that's okay.

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Because that's what

makes the world go round.

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Coming up is my favorite segment.

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Which is of course.

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Beyond the blurb.

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I'm always thrilled to have authors

come on and talk about their book

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because it gives them a platform.

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To let people know that maybe

haven't heard of them or

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haven't heard of their book.

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And let them know and share.

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The only caveat of course is,

is that I cannot, , endorse

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everybody because I can't.

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Read everybody's books ahead of time.

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There's just no way, unfortunately.

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, though, I wish I could.

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I wish I could clone myself

and have enough time to have

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oneself just sitting and reading.

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And so

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Please welcome these authors.

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And I hope as always that

you find something amazing.

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hello there, I am Shelby Storm, author

of Forever After All, which is book

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one in the Mercenary Ranch series.

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It is a small town

romance, uh, rodeo romance.

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cowboy romance, western romance,

whatever you want to call it.

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It hits all those boxes.

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It has a little bit of spice in it,

depending on your spice rating, somewhere

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between a 2 and a 3, I would say.

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, We have all the feels, a rollercoaster

of emotions go through, um,

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you're going to go through.

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, it follows Charlie Evans, , who

just left her small town five

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years ago and is now forced to come

back, , with the death of her sister.

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And she has just been named the

sole guardian of her nephew.

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And She's trying to figure out what

she's going to do with her life, as

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well as take care of this five year old

who she has never met in person before.

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, and then, as all of her life

comes crumbling down, she meets

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Yes, you did hear that right.

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, he is a true southern gentleman.

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He's sweet as pie.

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He is good looking and he is

just as perfect as can be.

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The only catch, he is a rodeo cowboy

and she has sworn off rodeo cowboys.

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for the rest of her life.

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Um, so basically, she

has to make a decision.

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Is she going to let her past haunt her?

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Or is she going to take a

chance on right or right?

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Uh, that is the big question.

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That is basically, uh, what

Forever After All is about.

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It is, , it was a number one,

um, bestseller in rodeos.

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, it is currently still in the

top 100, , for that category.

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And, if you are looking for something

that is a bit spicy, isn't something

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that's going to be too inappropriate to

read around your kids, um, and is just

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a really good feel good story, then

take a chance on it and pick it up.

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You might enjoy.

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Hi, I'm Peggy Jager.

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I write romances about strong women,

the families who support them, and

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the men who can't live without them.

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I also am part of the Dickens

Holiday Romance Series.

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My addition to the series this year is a

book called Don't Mess with the Mistletoe.

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It takes place in the tiny New England

fictional town of Dickens, New Hampshire.

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Although, it's probably New

England, but I say New Hampshire,

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because that's where I live.

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The story evolves around Michael

Charles, who is the third child

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in the Charles adoptive family.

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He's a pilot, and he's home for

vacation for the Christmas holidays.

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His two older sisters are very pregnant

and they bring him into the fold to help

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their mother run their family diner.

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Amy Charles is tired.

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She's been running the diner for

50 years and she needs some help.

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So Michael volunteers for a month.

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Little does he know how much his life

is going to change in that month.

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He meets a widowed waitress with a child

who he falls head over heels in love with.

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But there are complications.

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She has a tortured past, as does he.

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And he's not a permanent kind of a guy.

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But Julia Maryland, a waitress,

is a permanent kind of girl.

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When a family emergency makes

Michael rethink his non permanent

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lifestyle, sparks ensue and he

has to come to a decision about

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what his life is going to be.

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If you like small town and small town

boy romances, rom coms, family, a little

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bit of angst, a little bit of sweet with

heat, and a whole lot of love, Don't

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Mess With The Mistletoe could be for you.

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Hi, I am Laura Navarre, and I am

going to be talking to you today

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about my spicy paranormal adult

academy, Why Choose Romance, Gemini

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Queen, which is the first in the

four book Dark Witch Academy series.

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My book is about Zara Gemini,

who's actually a cat burglar.

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And when the story opens, she's

in Singapore pulling off a heist.

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And in mid heist, she gets kidnapped

and whisked away to the dark

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witch academy, where she discovers

that she's actually the next.

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queen of the witching world, which

is a gig that she didn't ask for

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and that she refuses to accept.

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But unfortunately, the four sexy

warlocks that rule the school

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just won't take no for an answer.

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And so Zara has to learn to

control her very terrifying magic.

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She has to deal with these

four enemy bully warlocks who

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are, of course, sexy as fuck.

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And through the course of the book, she

discovers that these so called enemies are

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actually all together, and by the end of

the book, she's together with them, too.

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So that's the start of the

series, and it is very spicy.

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It is very shifty.

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It is very wild and witchy and why choosy.

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So I hope you check it out.

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Uh, I'm on Amazon.

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You can read the first three books

in the series, uh, in ebook or print

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and the audio books are coming.

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So hope you enjoy it.

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And this is the part I've been

dreading all week because.

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My author writing update should be.

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A little bit heavier on the actually have

done a lot of writing part and I have not.

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I have not been procrastinating.

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I have been busy doing other things.

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I had a bunch of PR boxes book

boxes that needed to go out.

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Um, on this coming week.

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And I did some prepping for this

podcast and I did some prepping.

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For book four because I am trying to

actually plot a little bit more than

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pants, which is what I usually do.

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And, um, Yeah, it's not going as

well as I would've liked it to go.

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So I kind of am giving up on

the plotting ahead of time.

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Option.

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Which does mean that I have to do a little

bit more writing this week than I had

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originally planned to, which is going to

be difficult with the holidays coming up.

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At the end of this week.

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And I still have to wrap

presents because I have not yet.

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And.

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Yeah.

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So, I mean, I kind of feel like this is

going to be, you guys are all going to

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be my accountability partners because.

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I was literally dreading.

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Recording the session because I,

I did not want to see, like I was.

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Not doing what I should be

doing, which is writing.

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Um, So I am.

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Crossing my fingers and

hopefully we'll have.

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A much better update next week.

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This episode.

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Has been brought to you by me.

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Because I do not have

paying customers yet.

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Vying for ad space in my episode.

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I know, shocking.

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Sometimes I really do wonder why I record

some of these things and this should

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be a blooper, but it's not going to be,

it's going to go right in here because.

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It's real.

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And this is.

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The space for ad space that I.

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Don't have anyone paying

for, so here I am.

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Brought to you by.

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Liv Macy.

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Do I talk about myself

in the third person?

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No, that's weird.

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I'm not talking about myself.

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And the third person.

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Okay.

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This, uh, this episode, page two

has been sponsored by myself.

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So, you know, Uh, by my books and.

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That's about all the adding

I'm going to do here.

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And of course, if you should, so choose.

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I too want to have ad space.

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In the middle of my podcast.

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You can sign up for that on

my website, I have a page for.

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Uh, the podcast and all the

episodes that have aired as well as.

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Uh, Google forms and documents

that you can fill out.

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If you are interested in doing a book

spotlight, if you are interested in doing

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an interview and if you are interested in.

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Paying for an ad in sponsoring an episode.

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As always you can follow me on

social media at live Macy author.

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And on my website@www.live macy.com.

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Hi, Leia.

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Thank you so much for stopping

by and chatting with me.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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Of course.

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So can you tell me a little

bit about Hearts Choice?

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I can.

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So Hearts Choice is the romance

division of Choice of Games, which is

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an interactive fiction , company, it's

really interesting, , to me because

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it's text based interactive fiction.

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It's a game, it's like a choose your

own path novel, where your choices make

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the difference in how the story goes.

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And Hearts Choice is unique in

that it is the romance division.

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So you're getting your happily

ever after with whichever romance

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option you choose in the game.

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And all of the Hearts Choice

games that I have played have

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different romance options.

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So you can play multiple times and,

, invest in different romances as well

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as adventures , Really, I, I've really

enjoyed all the writing of the games

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that I have read on Hearts Choice.

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It's a fun medium , as a storyteller,

and it's a really fun medium as a reader.

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Is Hearts Choice for kids or for adults?

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That is for adults.

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It is, uh, some of the games

are 18 some, it, it's romance.

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So it, I would say 18 My games are

definitely 18 even though, um, all of

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the scenes are, have options to opt out.

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Awesome.

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Okay, so how do you, how, I mean, I know

you in the writing world, so tell me

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how do you get into something like that

for anybody who's listening who, you

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know, either writes or plays and wants

to write games or is a writer who's

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interested in heading into that path?

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Yeah, so there are a lot of

different interactive fiction

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companies I'm not familiar with.

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The entire spectrum of what

interactive fiction offers.

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I'm much more familiar with Heart's

Choice and the Choice of Games platforms.

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Um, but it is much bigger.

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I just want to mention that.

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If somebody's interested in getting into

interactive fiction, I mean, my first

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recommendation would be to go play some

games and see what you like and what you

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don't like and how you think you might

add your own unique, , voice to The genre,

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, so choice of games that is like the parent

company, they actually have another.

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Um, division called Hosted Games, and

that is for anybody can go and write

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a game and it can be one of the hosted

games, , that one isn't contracted.

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So I'm a contracted

writer for Heart's Choice.

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I, , submitted writing to them,

said, Hey, I'd love to write for you.

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Pitched a few concepts.

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They picked one of my concepts

and that turned into, , my

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first release, which came out.

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This year, , Their Majesty's

Pleasure is the title of that.

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, But before that, I hadn't really

done much in interactive fiction.

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I played a couple of different games,

, more on linear models , of different, uh,

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not Hearts Choice and Choice of Games.

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And, and what I mean by linear is, , there

weren't as many branches on the game, the

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interactive fiction that I had played.

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Mm hmm.

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Whereas Hearts Choice and Choice of Games

really focus on the player character

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having agency, and the agency, the

choices that you make as the player

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character, um, that affects stats, and

those stats, , those make the difference

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in how the story unfolds, I mean, not

just the stats, your choices make the

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difference in how the story unfolds,

but the stats affect, , what happens.

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In the game and there's like testing

choices that come in a little bit later

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in the games and sometimes you pass

the test and sometimes you fail and

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there's always interesting things that

happen in that, , there's, it's just

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a really fun rabbit hole to dive down.

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That, yeah, I mean, it sounds

like really like an awesome.

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Okay.

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So for me, it doesn't sound like I,

I have like, I have this vision of

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something and I, I can't seem to.

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Like veer off.

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If I veer off into something,

I tend to forget to the

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original, like what I'm doing.

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So I think that's an amazing,

uh, like skill to have.

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, me personally, I just, I, I, I don't

have those skills and I really wish I

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did because I think that it makes it, um.

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Intriguing, like, like to be

able to, instead of just one

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world, you have all these worlds

that you can build and get into.

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And I feel like your brain is so

complex and , so, I don't know.

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It's, I think it's incredible.

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Um, well, thank you.

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I.

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I think it's incredible too.

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I mean, honestly, as I was, as I

was writing my last game, I was

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in awe and sometimes stupefied by

what my brain had to go through.

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Um, I, it took me my whole first

game to really get a handle on it.

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And just to throw out some word

count numbers there, my first

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game came in at 225, 000 words.

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Play through is closer

to 50 or 60,000 words.

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Wow.

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So when you're playing, you're

reading like a novela or

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short novel worth of story.

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Um, when you're writing, you're writing so

many different scenes or the same scene in

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different ways with different characters.

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Um, and you have to be careful about how

many branches you make because you have

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to follow all of those branches through.

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Right.

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Uh, so now I, I.

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Uh, I have a, I've been contracted

to write a second game, which,

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yay, I'm so excited about.

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I know.

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Congratulations.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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It's really fun.

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And after writing the first game,

the second game, like the process for

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me is so much more enjoyable because

now I actually know what I'm doing.

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Yeah.

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I really didn't in the first game.

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I just kind of flew by the seat of

my pants, um, but I made it work

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and players have really enjoyed it.

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, I think that kind of goes with

anybody hand in hand for writers.

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Like you write your first, second,

sometimes third, fourth, fifth book

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before you really kind of get into

streamlining a process for yourself.

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Um, for not even just efficiency, but

like just to get it done and accomplished

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and meet your end goal, I guess.

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I agree.

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And, and I used to be a pantser

in that I didn't outline.

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I just started writing and woo,

whatever came, came, um, with.

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With games, with interactive fiction,

you really don't want to do that, you

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know, it's, it's not a good way to go,

uh, in my personal opinion, um, having

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an outline, you know where you're

going, you're not going to get too many

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branches, , that are completely out of

control, and that's been a big shift for

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me as a writer, is having this outline

process, and I go back and forth with

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my editor until we're happy with it,

before I even start writing the game.

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Okay.

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So I guess you're, you're doing

the whole plotting beforehand.

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I'm writing a thorough outline,

but there's still tons of surprises

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for me as I get into the writing.

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Like there's, I still start

writing and hey, this is happening.

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Okay, let's go with it.

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, so it's not like I've given up

all of the fun of pantsing, which

370

:

is that surprise of, hey, look

what my characters are doing now.

371

:

Okay.

372

:

I had no idea they were going to do that.

373

:

, there's still plenty of that happening

for me, which I, I really find enjoyable.

374

:

Yeah, I don't think, I feel like

I would be stifled , creatively if

375

:

I couldn't, if I had to stick to

something like that, even, and I, and

376

:

I know that I'm a pantser as well.

377

:

So I know that not all plotters

are like, okay, it has to be

378

:

this way, but that's how I feel.

379

:

Like, I feel like if I'm plotting

something, it's almost set in stone.

380

:

And then I.

381

:

I kind of come to a wall and

I'm like, how do I get there

382

:

and how do I move past that?

383

:

I, I just, I guess I just have that

either it's yet another skill that

384

:

I haven't learned or, um, I'm just,

I feel like I'm just not capable of

385

:

plotting out and still moving forward.

386

:

I mean, we each have our own process.

387

:

I think, um, doing interactive fiction

and working with my editor, Abby Trevor

388

:

has really helped me to learn how to

outline and how to use an outline as.

389

:

Um, as a tool rather than

something that's holding me back.

390

:

Uh, it, it is really helpful

in interactive fiction.

391

:

I need to know where I'm going.

392

:

I need to know what are the key points in

each chapter that I'm going to focus on.

393

:

And I have to know the end states.

394

:

Because there, I'll, I will

write, well, let's see.

395

:

In this, in, in Their Majesty's

Pleasure, there are five love interests.

396

:

There are three male love interests and

two female love interests and four out

397

:

of the five are cool with polyamory.

398

:

So that is seven endings that I wrote

just for the romance part and then there

399

:

are the political and um, and world.

400

:

Uh, adventure, like the aspects of it.

401

:

Yeah, the aspects, the,

the, the conclusions.

402

:

Thank you.

403

:

That's okay.

404

:

But my fingers work better than my, um,

than my mouth when I'm looking for words.

405

:

Um, so there are all of

these different end states.

406

:

That I have to know that I'm aiming

for before I start so that I can make

407

:

sure that I cover all of the plot

that gets us to those end states.

408

:

Again, I think that is an incredible

skill and I am so impressed.

409

:

So impressed.

410

:

I struggle writing one,

one book with the arc.

411

:

and of course you have

written books beforehand.

412

:

You're self published as well, correct?

413

:

Yes.

414

:

, I have a romanticy duet, which is kind

of like a cross between Outlander and the

415

:

Time Traveler's Wife and Marvel's Thor.

416

:

, the first book is called

, Falling Through the Weaving.

417

:

And there I've written, um, so I have

that Romantici duet and, um, I have quite

418

:

a few manuscripts that are unpublished.

419

:

So there was a lot of growing as a

writer involved with that process.

420

:

So that really helped me to get

to the point where I was ready

421

:

to take on an interactive fiction

story, uh, and I mean, I, I was.

422

:

It's contracted by Heart's

Choice because of that writing.

423

:

Um, one of the samples that I

provided to them was the first chapter

424

:

of Falling Through the Weaving.

425

:

And they said, yeah,

pitch me some concepts.

426

:

And I'm so glad that they liked the

fantasy concept that I pitched because

427

:

fantasy is really my wheelhouse.

428

:

That's awesome.

429

:

Now having the experience of Hart's

Choice and the plotting experience, um,

430

:

do you think you're going to go back to

those unpublished manuscripts and now

431

:

apply the knowledge that you've used?

432

:

Are you just going to eventually move

forward or do you just want to stay

433

:

with writing, um, like games or what

are your, what are your future plans?

434

:

Oh, I have such big plans.

435

:

Um, I'm so excited.

436

:

I love big plans.

437

:

That's great.

438

:

I'm so excited about, well, what,

what happened as I was writing this

439

:

last game is I realized that the world

that I created in Their Majesty's

440

:

Pleasure actually could connect with

the world that I had written in one of

441

:

my favorite unpublished manuscripts.

442

:

And so what I started, um, doing was

Letting the story evolve so that there was

443

:

crossover in the characters, so that there

were different romances between these

444

:

different key characters that would take,

uh, that would, that would take a series

445

:

to go through, um, you know, focusing on

this, these These characters romance in

446

:

this book and the next book, you know,

there's another pair but so I took a

447

:

little break between my first wrapping up

my first game and starting the second game

448

:

and Adapted the first game into a novel a

novel and a half The second part of that

449

:

is still in progress But it's been so much

fun because in the game I'm a little bit

450

:

limited in How far, how much detail I can

put into some things because the player

451

:

character, I'm not the one saying who

this player character is, the player is.

452

:

So if you're playing the game, you get to

decide what the character's personality

453

:

is like and what their backstory

is, which is super fun as a player.

454

:

Um, but in the novel, I got to make

up that main character and give her

455

:

all of the traits that I wanted to.

456

:

It's, it's interesting to me the freedoms

that are provided in interactive fiction

457

:

where I can write, um, I can write for

a player who is coming from a male,

458

:

female, or non binary perspective, um,

any preference of romance, and, and

459

:

any preference of heat level as well.

460

:

Whereas in the novel, I'm like, okay,

well, I'm going to have it slow burn up

461

:

until this point, and then it's gonna be

super spicy, and that's just how it is.

462

:

Whereas if somebody's playing the game,

and they like it super spicy, they can

463

:

have that throughout the entire game,

or if they want to avoid those scenes

464

:

entirely, they have that option, and

there are really sweet scenes that are

465

:

interspersed throughout, um, So, yeah, two

different mediums, two different ways to

466

:

approach it, but, uh, coming back to my

big plans, um, what I would really like to

467

:

see, you know, a few years into the future

is a series of books that are all in the

468

:

same world as the games that I'm writing.

469

:

Um, and I just, I'm so excited about

the games and I'm so excited about

470

:

the books and I just need enough time

to actually write them all, all out.

471

:

Oh, I feel like that's like the, uh,

writer's bane of existence, time.

472

:

Yes.

473

:

Time and productivity, like actual,

yeah, reasonable productivity.

474

:

Yes.

475

:

. Do you plan on self publishing

those, or are you going to try

476

:

to get agented for the novels?

477

:

Um, I'm definitely, I have

been sending out some queries.

478

:

I'm not pushing too hard right

now because I am focusing on the

479

:

second game that I'm writing.

480

:

If I find that there is traditional

publishing interest, Yay!

481

:

Um, if not, that's okay.

482

:

I know how to self publish.

483

:

I've done it before.

484

:

I think self publishing, indie publishing,

is an incredible path and, um, becoming

485

:

more and more valid as the years go by.

486

:

Um, so I'm really open to it at this

point, but I do want to wait until I

487

:

have at least the first three or four

books finished before I go forward.

488

:

Are you thinking of, um, Is it possible

to have the same fan base as the

489

:

people who are interested in the games?

490

:

Or do you think you'd have to kind of

search for a new, uh, reader group?

491

:

I think there's some crossover,

uh, but I do think that there

492

:

would be a very different market

for the novels versus the games.

493

:

Um, some people like interactive,

interactive fiction and books, obviously.

494

:

Um, but the other issue is in the game.

495

:

Again, you can play male, female, or non

binary, whereas the novels, I'm really

496

:

writing from a female perspective because

that's where I'm coming from, even

497

:

though there's definitely some LGBTQ,

uh, inclusion in there and some polyamory

498

:

in some of the relationships, not all.

499

:

Um, so.

500

:

So.

501

:

So.

502

:

That narrows it down somewhat because

there is, uh, I was surprised there's

503

:

quite a male fan base as well for

the game that I published and non

504

:

binary and all the crossover there.

505

:

Well, I mean, diversity is

always, you know, great to have

506

:

represented in both games and novels.

507

:

So I'm really glad that.

508

:

This is a game that, that kind of

hits that as well, because I think

509

:

that we need more, obviously, , I do.

510

:

And, um, just to touch on that point,

Hearts Choice has made it very clear

511

:

that that is a priority for them.

512

:

And, and I applaud them for that.

513

:

Um, one of the reasons that my game

has done as well as it has with

514

:

Hearts Choice, it was actually their

biggest launch that they've ever

515

:

had, uh, which, Congratulations.

516

:

Thank you.

517

:

It's just so amazing.

518

:

Um, but one of the reasons that it was

that is because I made it, uh, because

519

:

I coded it for, , a diverse player base.

520

:

, some of the Hearts Choice games

are locked in a gender lock.

521

:

So you're absolutely playing as a male or

you're playing as a female or, and there's

522

:

always non binary characters and, and, um,

you know, lots of diversity included, but.

523

:

To have the player character have so

many options, uh, is one of the reasons

524

:

why the game has been so well received.

525

:

Well, good for you for, for doing that.

526

:

I applaud you as well.

527

:

Thank you.

528

:

I'm just glad to be able to do that

because, you know, that isn't something

529

:

that I'm able to do as well in my novels.

530

:

I always try to include diversity,

but, um, I am writing from my

531

:

own perspective and experience.

532

:

And with the game, I was So

grateful and lucky to have,

533

:

there were 54 beta testers.

534

:

So I got feedback from 54 people who

played the game and told me what they

535

:

thought of it before it released.

536

:

Um, as well as several editors, which,

, made the game a thousand times better

537

:

than it would have been if I just tried

to bumble through and do it all by myself.

538

:

Wow.

539

:

The right editor for the writer is

always, um, really one of the best

540

:

things I think to have, especially

when you have a connection with,

541

:

with editors that, um, they see your

vision and, and help you like hone it.

542

:

It's it's like the sweet spot.

543

:

It's so important.

544

:

And, uh, when you, when you do create

that working relationship that, that

545

:

is synergistic, um, honestly, it's.

546

:

It's, it's so freeing because,

uh, for me, the feedback doesn't,

547

:

doesn't sting like it used to.

548

:

Um, that also might be that I've been

writing long enough and accepting

549

:

feedback long enough that, like, I've

learned how to accept it, but every,

550

:

every suggestion that my editor sends

my way, I'm like, yes, of course,

551

:

thank you for pointing that out.

552

:

It really is phenomenal

when, when that happens.

553

:

Um, so I'm really glad that you

experienced it because I think, , You'd

554

:

probably not want to do this type

of complexity again, if you had bad

555

:

experiences with editors, or even

really kind of each step, I think that

556

:

would stop you from doing that again.

557

:

And clearly you have a talent for that.

558

:

So I'm really glad.

559

:

I think that the entire, , staff

at Choice of Games and Hearts

560

:

Choice has just been phenomenal.

561

:

And, , I mean, everybody

from the artists to the beta

562

:

testers, , and the administration

and the, the marketing team.

563

:

Like, to have an actual team

behind you, uh, is magical.

564

:

And I think that's It's

something that, that people want

565

:

from traditional publishing.

566

:

, doing it as a self publishing, as a

self publisher, you know, you have to

567

:

go out and find those people or try

to be all of those people yourself.

568

:

And that's, that's really hard.

569

:

Yeah.

570

:

Yeah, it is.

571

:

, I was going to actually

ask you and I forgot in the

572

:

beginning of the conversation.

573

:

Do you have to have an

agent to write for games?

574

:

No, not at all.

575

:

So the process for heart's choice, and I

believe it's similar for choice of games.

576

:

I don't know about, , other companies,

, but I submitted a writing sample

577

:

and sent them my resume and I.

578

:

Was asked to submit a

second writing sample.

579

:

And after that they said,

here, pitch us a few concepts.

580

:

And the pitches were, you

know, a longish paragraph.

581

:

Um, and then after that, when they liked

one of my pitches, they said, okay, we

582

:

will pay you a small amount of money.

583

:

Well, it wasn't that small, but

it was still money to write an

584

:

outline because they recognized

that it takes quite a lot to.

585

:

Send in a 10 to 12 page outline,

, and go back and forth with the

586

:

editor enough times to wrap your

head around what it is they want.

587

:

Wow.

588

:

Um, that was really a learning

curve in the beginning, , but once

589

:

they approved the outline, the

game was greenlit and away we went.

590

:

That's, I keep saying that's awesome,

but like I just feel like that's really

591

:

the only adjective I can use here.

592

:

It's It's a really fun,

right, way to write.

593

:

Um, although while I was writing the

first game, I didn't always think that.

594

:

I know I reached out to you a few times.

595

:

I'm like, ah, why am I doing this?

596

:

Don't let me ever write another game.

597

:

And then three months after my first

game, I'm writing another game.

598

:

That's how it always is, right?

599

:

It's almost like giving birth.

600

:

You're like, why am I doing this?

601

:

And then you're like, oh, I love you.

602

:

I could do this again.

603

:

It's like, you forget very quickly

all the pain that you experienced.

604

:

Well, but I do think that.

605

:

At least in this instance, a

lot of that pain was because I

606

:

didn't know what I was doing.

607

:

I was having to learn code.

608

:

I was having to learn format.

609

:

I was having to learn how to keep

track of all these different variables

610

:

and stats that are required to

make this game work the way that it

611

:

works, which, um, that was a lot.

612

:

It was a lot to wrap my head around,

but I think it was absolutely worth

613

:

it because now, I mean, first of all,

my game has been, um, Just some of the

614

:

comments that people have said in the

forum on Choice of Games forum, uh, have

615

:

just given me the kind of confidence

that I've never had as a writer, uh,

616

:

because they've enjoyed it so much.

617

:

And now that I've actually gotten past

that learning curve, the second game is so

618

:

much more joy than, than the first because

I'm not struggling as much as I was.

619

:

Do you think that you'll eventually write?

620

:

Self help book on how to, how to get

into that world or, I mean, so, right.

621

:

So, cause you see, you do see writers

who, you know, then delve into that.

622

:

You've got like Sasha Black and Zoe York.

623

:

I mean, like they, they in turn turn

around and help people and other

624

:

writers on how to do these things.

625

:

So now are you, after you have a

couple games under your belt, do

626

:

you think you'll, you'll put out a

book telling others how to do it?

627

:

I never, it never even crossed my

mind, and I don't think I'm there yet.

628

:

I think, you know, one of, one of

the other writers who's written for,

629

:

you know, four games for choice of

games and a couple of others for

630

:

another company would probably be

in a better position to do that.

631

:

But, , it's a neat idea.

632

:

I could, I could maybe

write a blog post about it.

633

:

I'm here for the spark of creativity.

634

:

All right.

635

:

Well, if somebody wants to follow you

or to be, um, invested in your work or

636

:

to find out how you're moving along on

the timeline, where do they find you?

637

:

Well, you can always find me.

638

:

Um, my website is leahtallon.

639

:

com and the Twitter is leahtallon.

640

:

In fact, all of the socials you

can find me on as leahtallon.

641

:

Um, Timeline for the game, I'm not

really making super public, but, um,

642

:

there's usually on the Choice of Games

forum, they do do some updates, and if

643

:

somebody wants to go and play my game or

other games, you can go to heartschoice.

644

:

com or download the Hearts Choice app.

645

:

Um, so Hearts Choice, again,

is that romance specific side

646

:

of things, but Choice of Games

also has some incredible games.

647

:

to play.

648

:

Uh, so yeah, go and check those out.

649

:

Um, but please check out my game,

Their Majesty's Pleasure on Hearts

650

:

Choice, because I am just so thrilled

to be sharing it with people.

651

:

Well, and you're an incredible

writer, so I'm sure that the

652

:

games are just as wonderful.

653

:

Um, before you go, I need a one piece of

advice of something writers should not do.

654

:

Give up.

655

:

Awesome.

656

:

Yeah.

657

:

Yeah.

658

:

I think we all consider it more than a few

times, but if, if it's something that you

659

:

love, I mean, obviously if it's bringing

you nothing but grief and it's that spark,

660

:

that creative spark isn't there and it's

not bringing you any joy at all, okay,

661

:

find something else that does bring you

joy, but yeah, don't give up if you love

662

:

it, keep doing it right for yourself until

you find that audience that you love.

663

:

Resonates with what you do

because they're out there.

664

:

Well, thank you so much for joining

me on my second episode ever.

665

:

Um, this is, of course, it was a pleasure

to have you and I hope you come over

666

:

again and chat with my listeners.

667

:

I'd love to.

668

:

All right.

669

:

Thank you so much.

670

:

This week's.

671

:

industry information.

672

:

is going to be about.

673

:

crafting classes and crafting books.

674

:

everyone will tell you

as a new writer too.

675

:

Read craft books in order

to improve your craft.

676

:

And while there is.

677

:

A lot of validity about that.

678

:

Statement.

679

:

It can also become too much of a problem.

680

:

There are.

681

:

A plethora.

682

:

Of books on the market.

683

:

There are so many classes.

684

:

On.

685

:

All aspects , of writing that.

686

:

It's very easy to get overwhelmed.

687

:

It's a very easy to attempt

to apply every single.

688

:

, Rule or suggestion.

689

:

And it's enough to.

690

:

Cause frustration and.

691

:

Anxiety and.

692

:

Kind of all the bad things that

you don't want to come along

693

:

with improving your craft.

694

:

So that is my piece of

advice for this week.

695

:

Yes, learn and improve, but

also temper that with time.

696

:

To not only absorb what you have read

and see if it even applies to you.

697

:

But.

698

:

To also not kind of go balls to the wall.

699

:

Like just slow down.

700

:

Take things one at a time.

701

:

And.

702

:

There will always be craft books

and always be craft classes to take.

703

:

You'll get to them.

704

:

At some point.

705

:

Instead.

706

:

Go right.

707

:

Thank you for listening.

708

:

If you'd like to follow me,

my handle on all social media

709

:

platforms is Liv Macy Author.

710

:

You can also sign up for

my newsletter at livmacy.

711

:

com to stay up to date on things like new

releases of the Right to Read podcast.

712

:

This is the end of a

page in my author life.

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