This episode presents an insightful dialogue regarding the complexities of dating as individuals with disabilities. Doug and Addie not only share their personal stories but also emphasize the transformative potential of the DateAbility app. They discuss the app's unique features, which allow users to disclose their disabilities in a manner that feels authentic and not overly clinical. The hosts reflect on their respective journeys, illustrating the emotional toll that societal expectations and stigmas have on their self-esteem and relationships. They advocate for the empowerment of disabled individuals, encouraging them to embrace their identities and seek connections that affirm their worth. The conversation also touches upon the necessity for broader societal change to dismantle the barriers that inhibit meaningful interactions between disabled and non-disabled individuals. Overall, the episode serves as a powerful reminder of the importance of community, understanding, and the pursuit of love and companionship in all its forms.

Takeaways:

• This podcast episode explores the intersection of disability and dating through the innovative Dateability app.
• Listeners gain insights into the founders' motivations behind creating a dating platform for disabled individuals.
• The hosts discuss the importance of fostering a supportive community for those with disabilities and their allies.
• The episode emphasizes the significance of representation and inclusivity within the dating realm for disabled persons.

The following is a productions original series.

Hello and welcome to Rock and Roll Live.

I'm Doug Vincent, joined by Addie Rich.

We are so glad you are here.

Our podcast is dedicated to amplifying the voices of the disability community.

Welcome, welcome, welcome.

I am a polio survivor and Addie has cerebral palsy.

Yeah, good, good.

Today and every day.

Today and tomorrow and.

So did you have a good week?

I did.

It's busy at work.

Yeah.

The new position.

Following the saga, I finally got my new position.

I've been put on salary.

But with that also comes additional reports and fun things that keep me up at night.

And now that I am not hourly,.

Necessarily full on adulting.

I'm adulting.

Good for you.

Another busy week and weekend.

Went to the Triumph foundation adaptive Sports festival in Santa Clarita.

Made it for Saturday, but a nice day, especially since it didn't rain this year.

That was nice.

Yeah.

So I got to play games outdoors.

Did a little obstacle course.

It was called the.

The Robbie Rohan obstacle course.

I did that in a respectable time.

I think I did 25 seconds.

It wasn't real long, but.

Oh.

I was like, holy cow.

Yeah.

But they.

I think the.

The fastest time I think that I saw on the board was 18, but.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

So, yeah, they were booking through.

They had a little, you know, some jumps that you had to go different stuff.

It was fun.

It was fun.

And then I played bocce ball.

Got a chance to, you know, try that again.

Okay.

That was fun.

You know, it's a new favorite.

It's gonna take time.

It's gonna take time, you know, because you.

I just need to get reps, you know, I just need to sit with the.

The.

The ball you throw out there is called the jack ball.

So I'm learning these things.

And then everybody just, you know, tries to get as close as they can to the jack ball.

Yeah.

And, you know, so.

And then the balls are different weights, different firmnesses, so you use them differently in different.

I know.

Yeah, I know.

You were.

You were explaining this a bit before we started this stuff.

And it sounds like pool and croquet and golf all had a baby.

Exactly.

That's what it is.

And it started for people with cp.

Okay.

That's where it started.

I don't know how we didn't fall over, but, you know, just saying balance is not our strong suit because they.

Have a specially made little.

You've seen, like, a Hot Wheels track, right?

Yeah.

So basically, it looks kind of like a Hot Wheels track, but if you looked at it from the side, it kind of has that same scoop as a hockey stick.

Okay.

Yeah.

So.

And then there are many different ways to adjust this in height, in, in how, how, how steep the ramp is, all of these different ways.

And then you can get an aid to help you move it back and forth and all that.

So there's, you know, all levels of ability within that CP world.

Right.

But now they've opened it up to everybody because they want to grow their sport and you know, so, so they're.

Like, hey, there are not enough of us that will play.

We better be friendly.

So this is the accommodation they make for, for bipeds or able bodied people.

They, they, they have you use your non dominant hand.

Okay.

So that kind of levels things again too.

But yeah, it's a lot of fun and it's, I picked it a lot because it's low impact so it doesn't jack up my shoulders anymore, you know, or even at that, even at that.

That, that evening it was, I was a little sore.

I think I pushed around a little more than I usually do.

But you know, I'll survive, I'll survive.

What else?

Oh, and then went yesterday to Burbank, California.

You know, I give them a kudos because they've done a very good job of really including the disabled community.

They have their gym at the rec department open every weekend for like four different adaptive sports.

They put on a adaptive sports festival once a year.

They have an adaptive playground there at the park that we go to.

Super cool.

Yeah, yeah.

And I don't know if I talked about this last week and I was so excited.

I, I found out that they have, you know, those, I guess it's essentially a wheelchair but it's got the like tracks like a, they're rubber but they're like a tank, you know that go around.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

We saw them at the Abilities Expo or something similar.

The track its, or whatever it's called.

Yeah.

So you can go into the mountains of Burbank, you rent them for a couple hours and, and go.

Amazing.

I hope you're doing that.

Definitely, definitely going to be doing that.

I just have to find.

They recommend that you come with an able bodied partner just in case you.

Which makes sense.

Yeah.

You get turned over in the woods.

Yeah.

I literally would turn, tip myself over so I could see my sister being.

Like, come on, I don't want to have to chew my arm off to get free, you know, or anything like that.

Right, right.

So that's it.

Yeah.

Good stuff.

So again, thank you for joining us.

Don't forget to like, subscribe and share.

Thank you to Dina Peterson.

That was on last week and also she was at the sports fair and I did some yoga with her.

Oh, some chair yoga?

Yeah.

Yes.

And it was great.

I used it the last couple days since I learned doing some stretching and, and different techniques that she was teaching.

So thank you, Dina.

And today we have D Date ability, right, and a dateability app.

And we're going to talk about the two sisters that came up with this whole idea, how they, how it came about and all of that good stuff.

So stay right there.

We'll be right back after this word from Agyar Professional Training.

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From the Agyar Professional Training Studios, you're listening to Walk and Roll Live Disability stories.

Don't put me on a pedestal.

I'm not here to inspire.

I've got my flaws, my highs, my lows, my own heart's fire.

I laugh, I cry, I break.

I'm in just like anyone.

I'm not your symbol of courage.

I'm just me.

Done.

Yes, you are listening to Walk and Roll Live and we have a couple of guests today.

I always love when we have more than one.

It kind of ramps up our challenge a little bit to navigate.

But we have a couple of folks from Datability app and why don't you guys give your your names and your where you're from, where you guys are from and your nature of your disabilities, if you have them or not.

You want me to go first?

Yeah.

I'm Alexa Child.

I'm the co founder of Dateability.

I am from Colorado.

I am not disabled but a fierce ally and advocate for the community.

And I'm Jacqueline.

I am Alexa's younger sister.

We live together in Colorado and I am disabled and chronically ill.

I became disabled at 14 with various chronic illnesses that manifested into disabilities.

I've had over 40 surgeries affecting my head to my toes and have really just adjusted to life as a disabled person.

Very good.

Well, I like sisters and I like fierce sisters because my sister is very similar to you guys.

And we.

When she was out visiting me last summer, we had her on.

And it's.

It's super interesting to see how sisters relate and, like, what your life experiences are.

Even though you're in the same place, same time, it's a very different world for each of you.

I mean, as if we were, quote, unquote, normal or not.

But it's cool to see how everything kind of weaves and integrates.

So we're excited to have you here.

Thank you so much.

So did you grow up in Colorado?

Is that where you're from?

Yeah, so.

Well, we spent the first part of our lives in South Florida, which we were not fans of, but our dad was there for a job.

And then we became.

We began spending summers and winters out in Colorado, and our family fell in love with it and ended up, you know, building a house in Colorado.

And we, you know, Alexa left for college and law school, but I stayed here in Colorado for university.

And.

We just love it so much.

Yeah.

After many years on the east coast, I was in the Northeast for college and law school.

I was ready come back to the mountains.

Yeah.

Nope, we don't play.

This is our home.

So do you both ski?

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, We.

We started skiing when we were two, and then we became, you know, really big skiers, and we skied all the time growing up when we lived in Telluride and then back in, you know, my skiing journey has really gone up and down because of my disabilities.

There was a period of six years that I wasn't able to.

To be on the mountain, and finally broke that cycle by doing adaptive skiing one year, which was so fun and such an amazing year.

And then I was finally cleared to go back to stand up skiing.

And so what?

You know, while my skiing doesn't necessarily look like it did before, when I was.

When I was younger, I'm like, I will.

I'm glad.

Whenever I get to go on the mountain, I'm like, it's fine.

I'm fine doing the groomers and taking it easy because it's just like the best feeling going down the hill.

I mean, I'm the same way.

Not disabled, but I don't want to risk getting hurt.

Getting hurt.

When you're an adult is, like, so much harder than when you're a kid.

Right.

How are you supposed to go to the grocery store on crutches or anything or type with a broken wrist for work?

It's just.

I'm the same.

I want it to be enjoyable.

I mean, I.

You know, and I. Jacqueline's the most beautiful skier year ever.

I'm very jealous of her.

I did not.

I mean, I. I don't know what I look like, but I don't look as good as her, so that I know.

And it's.

Yeah, we love to ski.

This year was rough for the ski resorts out west, but we got in a few days, at least.

Why?

Not enough snow or not enough snow.

They have closed.

Most of them closed early.

Now, you.

You said you don't know what it looks like, but how did it feel in the skiing.

Did you.

When you got back to it, did you enjoy it and had that same kind of.

Yeah.

I mean, it was.

It was amazing, and it.

It was truly like riding a bike.

I thought that it was going to be much harder after so many years off of skis, and.

And I. I mean, I popped on my skis and I just went for it.

And my.

My family was behind me, and they said it looked like I had taken no time off, so I was very adaptive.

Skiing, you were really good at, too, which that, to me, I can't even fathom.

Like, it seems that that, like, that's harder.

That was one of those things that I.

Growing up with a disability, I walked on crutches and braces my whole life, and I didn't really feel like I missed anything, but I wanted to go skiing.

And there was a couple of opportunities that just kind of went awry.

And then finally, when I moved here, there's an adaptive program up in the mountains here, and I went.

And, you know, you say it's like riding a bike.

I've never ridden a bike, so I don't know.

But somehow, and I say this without bragging.

I'm not bragging.

I'm just saying for some reason, it came naturally to me.

So we did.

With the instructor, we did the bunny trail for no more than an hour, you know, maybe 30, 45 minutes.

And he says, you want to go up to intermediate?

I'm like, sure.

And I just.

It just.

Everything was just like.

Like I had done it before.

It felt like.

Yeah.

So it was so much fun.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that for some people, like, it.

It is.

It.

It is really natural.

And for Others, it's not.

I mean, if you try to get me on a snowboard, that's.

You will, you will.

I won't make it down the hill, but for skiing, that's a different story.

Yeah.

Well, I think, Doug, part of it is because you're like, balancing yourself on crutches.

I wonder if.

Yeah.

So you have a center of gravity.

You understand how to center yourself.

Yeah, yeah.

Getting grocery shopping on crutches for someone, for somebody who's not disabled is really hard because, like, it does throw off your, like, equilibrium.

And that makes, that would actually make a lot of sense, I think, having like, a lot of awareness too, about your body also real quick.

And we could get off this.

But the very first time I was going, and somebody was going to be there.

This is way before there were like, programs and stuff at ski resorts, but there was a gal who had a monoski that was supposed to be there, and maybe I get a chance to try it when we get there and she's not there.

So they were so great.

They, they take me in and they found the smallest pair of, of no shoes that they could, you know, ski shoes that they.

Ski boots that they could find.

And they, they put them on these shortest little kid skis they could.

And then the boots, they like, taped to the, the bottom of my crutches.

And then they put boots and skis on my skis on my feet.

So I'm trying to go out, I go out the door, out the side and go on.

And there's four things that are slippery going all these different directions.

That's not fair.

They made you like a, like a giraffe.

Exactly.

A baby giraffe.

Giraffe on roller skates a couple of.

Times and all that.

I might have like, got everything going the right direction for about four or five inches.

You know, I'm like, woo.

Yeah.

No, yeah.

No, thank you.

No, thank you.

But we're here, we're here to talk about the app.

That's right.

Which is super interesting because Doug and I, I feel like we, whether we're on air or off air, we do end up in like, the dating conversation with many of our guests and, and, or just ourselves just talking through life.

And we've always talked about, like, people's dating experience.

And like, when do you say something?

When do you not?

Like, how do you, you know, so it's so cool.

I actually saw a thing, I think it was on the Today show with you guys a long time ago when I was visiting and I was like, My mom was like, there it is.

At that point, I, like, hadn't been married and stuff.

She was like, you need to do this, but, you know, you lose time and touch and all the things.

So I never found it.

And then Instagram a bit ago, like, maybe, you know, whenever I got in touch with you guys suggested it, and I was like, oh, my God, I think this is the app from long, long ago.

So we've now found our way, but we want to be able to help tell the story of the app and.

And kind of find out that stuff.

Obviously, it wasn't something that you're just like, you know what?

Disabled people need this, and we know nothing about it, but we want to build an app.

Obviously, you're.

You're working from some life experience, so.

So we'd love to kind of hear about that.

When is it?

When is it?

And what happened that you kind of went, we need this app?

Yeah, I. I had been using dating apps to date, like, ever after graduating college.

And so I had moved to Denver with Alexa, and because of my disabilities, I was, you know, spending a lot of time at home and just.

I really didn't have, like, the energy to date.

And so, of course, using a dating app felt like the most accessible way to meet someone.

And while there were plenty of people on the apps and people I could talk to and it felt so close, my experiences were really not good, and it never resulted in anything positive.

And so people would.

Would judge me about my disability.

They would discriminate against me, tell me that I. I should never have biological children, telling me that I was a burden, telling me that it's, you know, it's too stressful to date me.

Their families would have issues.

Their friends would.

Would say offensive things about them dating a disabled person, and it.

All of that just really wears you down.

And I became really ashamed of my disability, and I just kind of went into a shell of myself where I didn't know who I was.

I saw all my friends getting these careers and meeting people, and I felt like I was just really stuck in this life that only revolved around my disability.

And I always felt like I.

When I was dating, there was never.

And I was never given an opportunity to show myself beyond my disability because it would either come up in the beginning because I felt like I had to say something and, like, warn them.

Our dog is bark.

Can you hear her?

It's totally good.

She's screaming, but she's having the weirdest little dreaming noise.

I can't hold that.

Happen Anymore.

So.

Sorry I interrupted you.

Yeah, it's fine.

So I, you know, I, I would always want to have to.

I feel like I had to disclose because I didn't want to like lie about myself.

But then also like, I didn't need, felt like I didn't need to tell all of the details about my disability to someone right off the bat.

And so I just like was I never felt like I could be myself.

And I had Reiter to Alexa that like, I wished that there was a way that I could just meet people like me because I felt like there, there wasn't a real way to meet people like myself that wasn't in such a clinical setting.

And Alexa suggested that we make the dating app and, and that's what we did.

And you can talk about like how we actually did it.

Yeah.

And I just want to say, like, you know, there's so much in hindsight now I'm looking back, like there's a really universal experience among disabled people, even if they have different diagn.

And I was with an old friend last week and her brother in law is a quadriplegic.

He had a diving accident and he's been having some gastrointestinal issues and they are suggesting a colostomy bag.

And his reaction to getting that was very similar to your reaction getting a feeding tube.

And I said, oh, I totally understand where he's coming from.

It's like the last like one more thing that needs to be added or one more thing you're taking away.

Like for you it was eating that made you feel normal.

And for him it's like, you know, his bowel movements and everything.

And so I was like, it is fascinating once you start really talking to people that like, despite the diversity in diagnoses, the common ground and the shared perspective is there.

And I think that's what's so wonderful about the disability community and maybe potentially overlooked.

And so we wanted to get everyone basically like in the same space.

Right.

Because sure, you can meet another disabled person on hinge or bumble, but it is like finding a needle in a haystack because you have so many other people who, who might discriminate against you that you have to go through.

I mean, even I feel like when I get on Hinge, as somebody who's not disabled, finding a decent person is like a needle in a haystack.

And so I was gonna say, I think it's.

I think it's not like disability related necessarily, but I think in my own experience too, like as you age, people's experience and things also make people more open minded.

It either.

Okay, there's two ways.

It's either you're more close minded or you're more open minded.

I think it can go both ways.

But like as a young person, right, like high school or whatever, there's so many aesthetics and things that are being the judgment meter of data.

Dateableness, that's not even a word, but you know what I mean.

But as you get older, people see the soul that's in the container sometimes and they're like, oh, I didn't even notice.

And you're like, how did you not even notice?

But it's nice to put it in a space in a place like that where, you know, the app is defined.

I mean, I think like a shared perspective or similar perspective is so important.

No matter, like if you're disabled or not disabled.

If I, I'm not gonna date somebody or marry somebody who like, views the world in a completely different way than I do, it's just, you know, that might be like romantic when you're in high school, but it's really like, not ideal for a long lasting foundation and commitment.

And so dateability, like, gets rid of those barriers and just like creates the space.

We got and I went to Office Depot, got a notebook, brought it to the hospital when Jacqueline was recovering, and we were like, what do we want to see in each screen, each page of the app?

And we drew it pen to paper.

Neither of us have any, like, tech experience.

Me especially.

And so we definitely went on a bit of a roller coaster finding someone who could bring our vision to life.

You know, when you first start out, you don't know what questions to ask, like if there's a portfolio.

So we chose someone who said they could deliver, who could not deliver.

And so that was six months of thinking that we were building this app that actually wasn't happening behind the scenes, but what's meant to be will be.

I do believe that.

And we eventually found a team here outside of Boulder to bring our vision to life and create our first version of the app.

And then as you connect with more people in the network and then in the tech space, we eventually met a team of engineers that came in house with us that really are dedicated to making the app accessible the way we want.

And even if they don't know exactly what that takes, they're willing to learn and grow with us and we're willing to learn from our users.

We have seen several iterations of the app.

In September, we launched 2.0.

We completely rewrote the app, rewrote the code designed, gave it a visual facelift and, and Gabe made it more sophisticated and made it so that we are able to add features on really easily as we grow and as we hear from our users.

And so that's where we're at now.

We have an in house team of engineers.

We feel like we finally know what we're doing.

But I mean, the way you described it, like, oh, I want to build an app and I have no idea what I'm doing and I'm just going to do it.

I mean, you're not completely wrong.

Yes, there's life experience that shaped what we want from the app and you know, what problem we're solving.

But when it comes to the app itself, like, we didn't really know what we were doing, but we knew that like we wanted to do this.

Yeah.

And you obviously had the fortitude.

I was gonna say the fortitude and the passion to be like, you know what?

Hooker, crook, we're doing this.

We will walk around the hospital and say, what do you think?

Like, if that's what it takes.

Because I feel like for some people there's the fire inside of like, oh, well, that's disappointing or you know what I mean?

Or whatever the case, right.

We may be like hopelessly optimistic, but I'd rather be hopelessly optimist and kind of dumb than like hopeful, hopelessly pessimistic and you know, an over thinker about like, what I could or couldn't do.

And it sounds like you finally have gotten aligned with people that maybe it's not their world.

They don't live in a world of being different, but they, they understand that everybody belongs and their technical skills are going to make it so everybody can belong.

I guess.

Yeah.

And it's actually so interesting because we will meet like different people who we work with and they will not realize that like their family member or themselves are like, are living with a chronic illness.

Like we met with someone who had diabetes and he said, does that like make me chronically ill?

And yeah, it does.

Like, it impacts day to day, it affects your, your food choice, your.

Everything.

And then, you know, we've had people who say, oh, like, do my mental health diagnoses you know, quote unquote count towards being disabled.

And obviously that it's, it totally depends on the, on the person.

But people have just become a lot more open to even like learning about.

Disability, maybe thinking that they are disabled.

We want, we don't want it to be a dirty word.

And so that when we first launched there'd be some discourse like I would never want to date another disabled person.

And that's fascinating.

It's self discrimination.

I'm like, you are as a disabled person, like, who is like you?

I mean, that's wild to me.

And I think we're trying to like get rid of that stigma and like thinking that disabled not a dirty word.

And there is such a gray area.

And that's something that we thought about when we first launched.

Okay, do we limit it to disabled people only?

And if so, how would we verify that?

And then we decided not to.

That there are allies, there are advocates who are not disabled who would want to join, who maybe are tired of like the shallowness of the other apps or just like over it and want to join a new community or you're not sure if you're disabled.

I mean, you know, I have suffered from depression, but do I consider myself disabled?

No, but somebody else might.

And so there is that really, that is that spectrum and that gray area.

And we just want to truly be inclusive and welcoming.

And so whoever wants to join, if they respect our mission, they want to, you know, they respect our values and they like what we're doing.

The more the merrier, truly.

Well, you know, I've been disabled a long, long, long, long, long, long time.

And I never heard of this before.

So just recently I heard about this.

Just what you were talking about there, letting you know typical or atypical people in there was something that was brought to my attention about disability fetishes.

So if you.

Have you heard of that, have you needed to address it on the app?

I related.

We also didn't know what that was until starting dateability.

And so that was a new world for me too.

And, and it's a really valid question and a question that we get a lot.

And you know, the devotee world is very, it's, it's not so black and white.

There's a lot of consensual devotee relationships.

But for the safety and you know, the comfort of our users, we have decided to, you know, to ban all devotee relationships and any sort of reports of that behavior or language results in a ban from dateability.

And we really haven't struggled with that issue.

I think that it's.

It really helps to.

That we have established that this is a place that is a legitimate business.

It has people behind the app.

It has people moderating the app, and, like, real success stories and love and connections have come out of it.

Yeah.

When we first launched, I said, okay, before we go down this venture, this rabbit hole, we need to download every app that says that they're disabled.

Dating app.

And that says is like the key.

Keyword there.

Right.

So between the two of us, we divvied it up and we downloaded it.

Either the app would crash right away, or it felt very fetishy devotee, or it felt scammy, and it would take you down, like this dark hole.

Like everything the Internet should be, should.

Should not be, but can be, but is what was in those apps.

And that's exactly what we didn't want.

And so, you know, we.

Our story was featured in the Washington Post the week we launched.

We wanted people to know, like, this is who's behind the app.

Like, there is accountability, there is responsibility, and, like, this spammy, scammy, predatory behavior will not be tolerated.

And so I think that that's weeded.

That has weeded out.

We did.

Yeah.

Weeded out a lot of people and a lot of bad actors.

Like, we don't see it very often, but if we do, it's a hard.

No, you set the tone very early.

Yes.

Which is super important.

Right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because also I'm gonna make a controversial statement because.

Yeah, I know.

But I think that there is some assumption sometimes that because some part of us is differently abled.

Because I don't really like, disabled differently able.

It's a different container.

That, like, there is a lack of smarts or there is a lack of, like, intuition that there's a naivete that comes with being different.

Right.

Like, no, the.

The credibility.

Like, you should be given credibility first and lose it in your character.

Right.

So I feel like it's super important that.

That you all kind of said no.

Like, we're starting from the same get, if not a higher standard than everybody else who does these things.

Because it's like we, Doug and I talk about, like, people that will speak louder to me when I'm in my chair and I'm like, I hear you, I hear you.

I'm just seated.

You know what I mean?

It's like, God, they can't help it,.

But no, they can't help it.

Totally help it too.

Nice.

Yeah.

What?

Yeah.

No, no, no, no.

Yeah, I mean, there are so many assumptions and there, and like you say there are a lot of assumptions that disabled people are more vulnerable and that, I mean, that is true of disabled people and non disabled people, like everyone is like, is susceptible to, you know, romance scams and things like that.

But putting like making a blanket statement that all disabled people are vulnerable to, you know, bad actors on the Internet is really dangerous and it infantilizes our experience.

And it's like actually like if when you hop on dateability, you see people just like you and I and who you know, are just are living life like every single person and just looking for connection.

I always wonder if that stereotype that disabled people are more prone to scams, one, it has to do with like what you were saying, like the intel, like there's assumptions about intellect.

But I also wonder if it stems from like the assumption that disabled people are more deep desperate for love and companionship than non disabled people.

So like, it doesn't.

Even if they're the smartest person ever and they go to Harvard because they're disabled, they're automatically more desperate and so they'll take whoever they get.

And I think that's part of it too.

And I think that's also something we are trying to walk away from, is that you as a disabled person, like you can have standards, you can be picky, and Jacqueline knows this, that you felt like you weren't like you were desperate and not picky.

So like, you have been through like this psychological journey where like, you, you yourself felt desperate.

You would take whatever you could get.

People would tell you that you're going to meet such a special man one day who.

Special?

Yeah, they'll be special.

But not because you're disabled.

Right?

The person who marries me is going to be very special, trust me to deal with me for the rest of their lives.

But it is like this really fascinating thing that gets like internalized within the disability community.

Because, because we will get emails that of like, imply that, that like, oh, this, like this person I know might be so desperate that they might be like susceptible to romance scams.

And it's like, well, there's a part that we can educate our own user base into think, not thinking like that and to not buying into that messaging.

Yeah, yeah.

I've had a conversation with myself sometimes, you know, especially early in my life, you know, would I, would I be more, I don't know, forgiving maybe of faults that I would see in somebody, things like that, because, you know, I, you know, don't know what my, you know, my desirability is going to be.

Yeah, we talk about that a lot, right?

That like, either you stay too long, you put up with things that you shouldn't because you're like, okay, well life's about to get complicated.

Life's already complicated.

And if I complicate myself even more, do I want to be complicated?

And, and I think that that is something that we talk about.

But it's, it's cool that, that you're creating the space that kind of says, all right, everybody, even playing field, we're all different.

Like you have choice and you have say and all the things, right.

And I think a lot of times that isn't given in general society, whether it's because they give you a pat on the head and tell you how sweet you are or whatever.

I like that it's a space where it's like, okay, everybody there is, you know, take that excuse out of your bag and let's just go, yeah.

And what we, you know, we're often asked about success stories, about dateability.

And I think that a lot of people asking those are implying that success is, you know, a marriage and a monogamous relationship and that that is one version of success that we see on dateability.

But not everyone on dateability is looking for that.

And there are people who are just looking to casually connect or you know, to have like a fling and to have a one night stand, a hookup and that none of us ever want that.

That's also success in our book because like exactly what you said in even playing field.

We just want people to have this equitable shot at connecting and, and feel like everyone else.

And like all their, all of our non disabled counterparts who you can easily do that on, on the other apps,.

We want you to be able to get your heart crushed too, just like everybody else.

Dating sucks.

Like it does suck, but I don't have to worry about being discriminated against for something that I can't change about myself and, or like, wouldn't change because I know, you know, Jacqueline wouldn't change her disabled self.

But, and then also, you know, I've definitely stayed too long in relationships, but not because society was telling me that like, I'm not worthy and I should, should stay.

It's just like my own stuff.

And so I can't imagine what it's like to have the external pressures and this external stigma influencing your dating decisions for the work, for, for bad.

But it's a, it's a really good point that like, yeah, even heartbreak, it does teach you important life lessons.

We have, we have a user who's become a friend of the app who has, who got into his first relationship from dateability and they did break up for completely normal, typical reasons.

And he said that it just gave him the confidence and the reassurance that he is desirable and that he's worthy of love.

And so I was like, yeah, that is that you're like, tada.

Mission accomplished.

And that will send you your sticker first breakup under your belts.

Congratulations, you survived.

Here's to many more.

Yeah, yeah, right.

That's the experience that's dating and that's the way it should be.

Like, I don't think, think, yeah, disabled people will get married and fall in love.

I mean, maybe, but maybe not.

And that's like everyone else.

Exactly.

I mean, if you don't land on your butt, you don't know what it feels like to be on your feet because you just assume that you're always going to be on your feet.

So I think it's a beautiful story.

So can you tell us more about like the app and kind of how it works and what you do when.

Let's say I download it, then what happens?

And what, what am I talking about in my profile?

Yeah, so the profile has, you know, very basic information that you may see on other apps, like your political affiliation, religion, a bio and activities and interests.

But I.

What makes it different and sets us apart is this datability deed section.

And that really solves the issue of disclosure, which is something I struggled with.

It's something that, like, I think every single disabled person I know has struggled with.

And when creating dateability, we were like, how, how do we make this not read like a medical chart?

And just like, you know, just like be really natural and neutral.

And so we came up with the datability deet section and it's a list of broad terms that are vague.

They're not.

There's no diagnoses, but it's like, like chronic illness, permanent medical device, autoimmune.

Yeah.

Immunocompromised.

Yeah.

Mobility impairment.

And you can just check that on your profile.

It's totally optional, but just presents it in this neutral and natural way without disclosing, like, you know, all the details of your, of your medical history, but in a way that it could be a nice icebreaker, it could be a conversation starter and it just, just, it's out there.

So you're not asking yourself, when and how am I going to tell this person that, you know I have a service dog and.

And he has to come with me everywhere.

Yeah.

Do you think it cuts down on the.

The insensitive comments that you were talking about at first?

I mean, does it kind of.

It informs people?

Okay, maybe I don't want to get into a dating situation with this person without having to be ugly about it.

Yeah, I. I think so.

I think, like, it helps people just see.

See the person as.

As a whole person.

They want that.

Yeah.

I do think that there is, like, there are disabilities and diagnoses that comp.

Can complement each other.

And I, like, I do understand that.

And I've.

We've heard that from disabled people.

Like, if somebody is a wheelchair user, they might not be looking for another wheelchair user, that they, because they have accessibility, you know, needs that.

They just, like, want that that person, their partner, could be disabled.

But something else.

And so I do think, like, it allows you to pass on people without being nasty, like you said, without having to ask questions.

Or I also think, like, asking questions is good, though.

Yeah.

And if you know what you're dealing with, if you get baseline understanding, then you know how to respectfully ask questions.

Right.

Like, it's not like.

So, like, you can say, like, oh, I see your immunocompromised.

I have a friend who has lupus.

Like, what do you, like, what's your diagnosis?

Or something like that.

I think you can ask questions nicer.

Yeah.

You have a baseline understanding the other person is dealing with.

Yeah.

And for me, it.

Honestly, it does make a difference if.

If the questions I.

If you're rude, you're rude.

But if the questions are coming from a disabled person, like, it does.

It feels like a little more comfortable.

Yeah.

Yeah.

In the, in the community, it's a whole spectrum of people, and some people are.

Don't ever ask me, you know, that I wouldn't ask about your medical condition.

And then, you know, I'm fine with it.

You know, my whole life I've had people ask, you know, and as long as they ask respectfully, you know, I'll give you an answer.

But, you know, as soon as you say something like, you know, what happened to you?

You know, then I, you know, make something up.

But I shoved myself in the fridge.

So on the app, you can choose not to divulge and.

And then date somebody or.

Or start to connect with somebody and then divulge that when you want to.

Yeah.

And I think that, like, yeah, being on the platform already weeds people out because for signing up for dateability, you know, the Majority of the people are.

Going to be disabled, ironically.

Yeah.

So we don't want to force people to disclose.

And that's like the opp.

Like, like swinging the pendulum the other way of being so afraid to disclose, but now you must disclose.

But I agree.

And I mean, I still think, I think asking questions.

As a non disabled person, I still ask Jacqueline questions because I don't know how she's feeling.

When we go on walks, it's, you tell me when you're ready to go.

Because I'm aware that our abilities or our stamina are different.

And so I think asking questions is good.

And I think that our society has gotten scared of asking questions, especially because I think people have like a lost the ability to be tactful and so they know how to ask questions nicely.

But I think questions are great.

And I won Queen of Questions award in fifth grade.

And so I will stand by that.

Questions are good, learning is good, and I want to, like, bring that back.

And my teachers, you have got to put that on a T shirt again.

I want to see you sporting a T shirt that says that on it.

My question is great.

Something like that.

That is my class award in fifth grade was Queen of Questions.

I was always asking, asking questions, and I still am because I love to learn and I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

But I do understand that people have lost the ability to ask questions with grace and like, without judgment.

And so I like, wantability to like, bring that back again.

I think it's a beautiful thing.

Like, Doug and I were talking about this before we, before you guys appeared.

And we've talked about this before.

But like, for me, so clearly, if you can't see us or haven't listened before, there's a big age gap between the two of us.

So we're different generations and genders and things.

And talking about, like, when do I disclose to someone?

So I have cerebral palsy at different phases in my life.

I've used different assistive devices and whatever, but I've never been able to drive because of my disability.

So normally when you're doing, like, dating stuff, I would always put a line in there that said arriving in a different container or something that hinted at the fact that I was different.

Right.

But it's not overtly written.

So if you read, you might say, hey, you mentioned that you're different.

What's different?

Or whatever.

Right.

But if you don't, if you just read and saw my picture and went, oh, I like that girl, then there would always become that conversation of.

I'd say, well, I don't drive.

And that was always the door that kicked open the conversation of, oh, well, I have cerebral palsy and I can't drive.

And then.

Wait, what's that?

You know what I mean?

So it's.

I think it's different for other people, though.

Like, if you're seated or, you know, you have, like, something immunocompromised or something where you don't.

I don't see it at all.

Mine, I walk in, I look a little bit like a flamingo.

Clearly something's going on.

But for other people, that might not be the case.

And so having this gives them a great way to kind of go, hey, something's different.

And I'll give you a hint and then open the conversation.

Right.

Yeah.

There's, like, pros and cons to being visibly disabled and being invisibly disabled.

I think, like, one, you don't have to hide it when you're visibly disabled.

Like, you know, but at the same time, the.

And you can't hide it.

I think it's really interesting for Jacqueline.

She has invisible disabilities.

If she took all her clothes off, you would see all her scars from surgery.

And then, you know, but walking down the street, you'd have no idea.

And I think that, like, you could mask your disability when you need to or when you needed to in the past.

Now that with dateability, like, luckily, I think that time is over in your life and you can be more authentically yourself.

But then also, it brings up a lot of questions, like, you don't look disabled.

Last weekend, I thought you were disabled.

But, like, it is, and it brings almost like a skepticism.

So, you know, there's not a preference either way, you're disabled.

And that is.

It is what it is.

But I do think it's interesting, people's experiences with disclosure when you have an invisible versus a visible disability.

Well, that's why I love that you guys made this, because, I mean, the disclosure is already sort of there.

Yeah, right.

No, you know, you're there.

You're on an app, and if you were awake when you downloaded it and it wasn't 1am and you weren't drunk, then you probably know that you're in a space where.

Where, you know, the field is more even than it might have been if you're on, like, match.com or something, where we just kind of get to see what gets thrown at us based on.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I came from a time when, you know, that wasn't even an issue because there were no dating apps.

So everybody that I met saw me, you know, at first, but then as time went by, well, and being on the radio, I talked to a lot of people.

I was like, doug, you have to go backwards.

You have a voice that people were like, oh, that Doug.

And then that guy.

But.

But there'd be times when I would talk to somebody so long, at some point they want to.

They want to meet me.

And.

And then I. I would be kind of confronted with that dilemma.

Do I.

Do I tell them?

You know, sometimes it just feels weird, you know?

Yeah.

You know, like.

Like, does it.

You know, is it a point to you or why are you telling me this?

You know, so it's.

It's difficult.

It is weird.

Like, I'm not diagnosing my health information to first dates.

Right.

But none of your business, like, what diagnosis I have.

And so it's so fascinating that they're like, look, if you don't.

If you're disabled, and you don't say you're disabled, you're a liar.

I don't tell you that I have.

Yes.

Disorder.

I'm not a liar.

But, like, it's so fascinating to me.

And I'm like, yeah, you're not entitled to that information about you.

But I think, like, you all.

It is a part of you.

And, you know, like, you don't drive Addie.

So, like, that's, like, that is something.

And I think you felt that, like, it would come up, like, where you can't do something or you don't do something.

And so you have to explain why.

So it is really interesting.

Like, it's almost like a double standard.

And it's fascinating for sure.

Much.

The funniest story regarding that is when I was married, my.

My wife cut hair, and she would cut hair at home.

And I remember I was out one day and I came home while she was cutting this young lady, and.

And I just rushed in to get something and then left again.

And my wife tells me later, the gal said, why didn't you warn me?

And she's like, warn you of what?

Well, that he walks on crutches, you know, and talk about a weird circumstance.

Wouldn't it be weirder if you didn't see the husband?

And like, hey, I gotta warn you, my husband walks on crutches.

Well, why are you telling me that?

You know, so I don't.

Yeah.

People are odd.

Oh, God.

Yeah.

And I think all that goes to just, like, the ignorance and.

And all of the unknowns.

About disability because we have been othered and we've been, like, made to hide and people have hidden us, and there's just, like, no representation of.

Of disability.

And even though it is truly everywhere and you just don't see it or, you know, you don't pay attention to it.

And so that could be fixed with conversations like this, just, like, bringing it to the surface.

And what film were we watching where the sister was a wheelchair user and she was an ambulatory wheelchair user?

Yeah.

What show was it?

It was the Harlan.

The.

The British.

It was British.

Filmed in Manchester.

I cannot remember what the show is called.

Off to the Club.

But the sister, who is just, like, supporting role, is an ambulatory wheelchair user.

And I think, like, apparently the comments on the Internet were like, why is she.

Like, why is she using a wheelchair?

Why is she in a wheelchair?

Or people or.

Or people were saying, oh, my God, is the.

Are the.

Is it going to be revealed that the parents abused her and she became.

Disabled, like, convinced it was, like, part of her storyline?

Like, it had to be more.

There had to be more there.

Not that she was just.

Just disabled and she's just a character in the show and, like, that's her.

That's her existence.

Because, yeah, it has been made to be othered.

And I thought it was.

I mean, the comments were cracking me up because people were so focused on this, and I.

My reaction was like, that's so cool.

Like, I love that she's an ambulatory wheelchair user.

Like, not just a wheelchair user, but ambulatory.

She did that to mess with people's minds.

She's standing, and the next, she's in.

A comment saying, this show is really good, but the continuity of the girl using the wheelchair and then walking in the next scene is.

It just ruins it for me.

Oh, God.

Have you guys ever seen Dead to Me?

Yes.

Yeah.

Okay.

So, you know, when Christina Applegate, you know, she obviously has Ms. And, like, her.

Her health was failing, right?

And so I read a lot of backstory in that last season that they.

If you notice, she's always, like, seated or in a.

Something is holding her up.

Right?

But they don't really have her character move.

Somebody moves around her.

And I always thought, like, it would be fascinating if they actually had written it in because they had developed.

The characters had developed a friendship enough at that point that Judy.

I think her name is Judy, Right.

I think if she had helped her, right, that would have been another arc that they could have used that.

Here's this Girl that does all this crazy stuff, and now by the end of the season, she's actually become like, a caregiver.

I'm like, that was a missed opportunity that they just kind of placed her as a prop and let her.

Let her talk.

And I was like, you totally could have created another scenario that acknowledged.

I mean, even if she didn't want to say what was necessarily going on, but write it in so her body actually can deal.

Yeah.

I know that Harrison Ford isn't actually a Parkinson's, but similar to what shrinking did with his Parkinson's diagnosis, like, people do it.

Like, do you get diagnosed with things?

And, like, Christina Applegate had this thing.

So, like, why not write it into the show?

Like, take advantage of it, Use it as, like, another storyline, teachable moment.

And you didn't have to.

She didn't have to reveal her diagnosis.

You could have made it a diagnosis on the show that then accommodated her actual physical self.

And for the.

I don't want to ruin the show, but if people had watched that show, it would have made a lot of sense and been really interesting in the arc of how they ultimately came together.

And, like, what does Karen love mean?

And when the world changes, how do those around you change to help?

So anyways, writers pay attention.

Yeah.

They're supposed to be the creative ones.

Right, Exactly.

So.

So let's talk about the app for a second, because we're talking about different abilities and disabilities and all those things.

So how do you make it, like, accessible to the people with the differences?

Like, what is done in the app that can help make people with, like, low vision or different things.

Right.

Also use the app?

Yeah, that's been a priority for us.

And it is, to be honest, it's a learning curve because, one, there are so many different softwares that people use, and they all work differently, which is great for people's different needs and accommodations, but not great for the people building the apps.

But we have just tested, thoroughly tested the app with our different users and the different softwares that they use to help screen readers, and that has been successful.

And it's also something that's ever evolving because things change all the time.

And we have added a space for image descriptions on profile pictures, which has been really cool to see.

It's also, like, a very nice exercise about, like, describing yourself in the picture.

I think it can be really reflective.

And so we have.

We have that.

We, you know, we make sure the color contrast is.

Is up to par.

That's something that my eyes are really sensitive to is color contrast and, and so that's been really nice.

We really just like take things, take accessibility very seriously and we're not afraid to say that it's not, it's not perfect.

But we will always try and keep going and iterating and making it better because everyone is so diverse and it can get tricky when one thing is make something accessible to some person and it makes it.

Yeah, exactly, yeah.

Because I wanted to ask this for a bit, but I think it works perfectly.

Here is how much of your users are a partner in this part of the process where you're learning things from them and updating the app and making it more accessible and usability is up.

A lot and like there's no like official process or anything.

But we are very communicative with our user base in our community and I mean we were talking to people on social media and through email and that I think that the iterations that we have made mostly have stemmed from community feedback, which is really important because if we're not making an app that people want to use, what's the point?

Yeah, user first experience for sure.

Okay, so question, so explain the app for those of people who have sat with us but are like, okay, well now what?

It's free.

What is it like?

How does it work?

What's going on with it?

So that people can figure out, yes,.

Oh, you'll sign up, you'll create your profile, you know, add your pictures and creating like a good profile is important on a dating app.

And we have a completely free version and it is a robust free version.

You can search within your location, you can search outside of your location, you can make location a deal breaker.

You can adjust the age, of course, and then you can get to swiping and liking and chatting and, and in order to message people, two users have to like.

So it is a two party consent app and yeah, like unlimited swipes, unlimited likes.

We really did not want to place any financial barriers on finding connection.

And so we do have a premium version that is $4.99 a month and that just adds, you know, those extra filters.

If you want to filter by religion or political affiliation, you can do that.

But we really just want to make sure that people have access to this platform.

And we're available on Android, Apple, and then we also have a web app version because we know that mobile devices aren't always accessible either and people prefer their desktop and so we have that ability as well.

And the apps are identical so to each other on all platforms.

And what is the age range.

So, like, you have.

Like, if you were looking at an age range of users that are the pool.

Well, minimum is 18.

You have to be 18 to join.

And then, you know, we have users that are up in.

I think we have a few users in the.

In their 80s, but I would.

The majority of our users are like, 24 to 40, which is, you know, consistent with.

With other dating apps and social apps.

And.

But we do have a very, like, diverse user base.

Yeah, I mean, we have, you know, ableism does not go away when you get older, when you become a senior citizen.

And so we definitely have people who are older on the app.

We have.

I think the split is like 50, 50 between people who identify as female and male, maybe even more female, which is odd for the apps.

Usually it's the opposite.

At one point, 48% of our user base identified as queer.

So it's an incredibly intersectional community and diverse community, which we love and are very proud of.

So even if it isn't, like, based on dating, do you feel like it has a community flavor to it?

Like, let's say you're not looking for.

You're not looking for a date.

You're looking for friends.

Yeah.

Can that also happen there?

Yeah, we have a section that you can put where you're looking for.

So if that is, if you're looking for something casual, if you're looking for friendship, you can add that tag to your profile.

And people are, like, pretty respectful of that.

And we.

We do have a lot of people asking, like, hey, I'm married, but, you know, I'm looking for some girlfriends who are chronically ill. Can I join?

And we say absolutely no.

I think that's a really powerful thing.

I was just telling Doug yesterday I went to a networking event that's here in Atlanta, and it's called Girlies Making Friends in Atlanta.

And it's for people.

So I'm 47, so it's for people like, I never had kids.

I don't.

You know what I mean?

So you kind of don't.

You don't need people in the pickup lane.

And I don't go to yoga because I don't drive.

So, like, you know, different things like that.

And part of the reason they created that was, like, networking and stuff.

But I went to an event yesterday.

I'm the only one with wheels.

Like, it would be nice to have a place like dateability where I can go, hey, I want girlfriends where you can be like, juice, Jesus, my back hurts today.

And, like, all this other stuff, right, where people aren't like, oh, here she goes again.

I think it's.

I think it's cool and important to give community because some.

For some people, your only community is your caregivers, your PTs, your OTs, your hospital staff, or whatever.

So to say, hey, we know there's so much more to you.

Let's open the window virtually.

It's important.

So, yeah,.

Well, usually I'm the clock watcher here, and this got away from me,.

So we totally.

Fine.

That's good.

So we're gonna kind of pivot here and just like, do you have some vision for the future?

Some things that you'd like to add, haven't added yet or thinking about adding or whatever.

You know, we're.

We're constantly growing and improving our app and adding new features.

And so if, you know, if anyone listening is a user and has any ideas, they are always free to email or contact us.

We just want to make it a fun place where it doesn't feel like disability is at the center of it in a negative way.

And, yeah, I think just like adding to the conversation of disability and normalizing it and making sure that it's talked.

About, I mean, we want to continue to grow internationally.

I think we're available on.

I think it's four continents now, so we want to continue that.

We want to be able to translate the app into other languages.

We really want Datability to become a household name.

If datability is ever mentioned on a scripted TV show, we'll know we've made it.

It's something like Grindr, Bumble or Tinder, just have that.

So, yeah, we want it to become a household name, and that's our goal.

And that's, like, where we see our future.

It's amazing.

All right.

Be fun to watch.

I know, right?

Awesome.

Thank you.

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You're listening to Walk and Roll Disability Stories.

That's enough to make you want to mingle a little bit.

Dateability is is my new favorite app.

The story of two sisters and the fact that, like, you know, a sister saw a need and then met the need of her sister in a way that, like, made her feel normal.

I hate doing it that way, but it is true.

Like, we want to be just like everybody else.

I constantly say it's a container difference.

It's not a soul difference or brain difference.

So we want love.

Yeah.

Or companionship or, you know, whatever it is that, you know, fits in that time of life that you're in for.

Sure.

Yeah.

And we know in modern times, the apps are what helps us do it.

And, you know, we've talked a lot about, you know, like, when.

When do you reveal it?

In this day and age, a lot of the dating is going on online to kind of get it started and, you know, do I, you know, just kind of bomb it out?

All my information at the beginning or should I hold back?

How long do I hold back?

When do I say code word?

Do I say.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

So, yeah, it was awesome not only to learn about the app but to kind of explore all that for, you know, ourselves and our listeners as well.

So next week we've got Gemma Davis is going to join us here and she's is one of those stories where, you know, her journey has inspired her to, you know, start an organization to help with all that.

So we'll learn about that next week.

Week.

Always adding again, new resources.

As I travel around at different events, I, I meet different people who, you know, have resources, you know, websites to address different things.

So adding those all the time.

So check it out and see what's new.

And I, I should start putting up more pictures of different events you are out and about.

Yeah.

And, you know, and your new organization that you're going out on the town with.

Yeah, we'd love to see some of that.

So, yeah, we'll have to.

So they can see we do other things that sit in this booth and talk to each other.

Exactly.

Yeah.

We do get out.

We do have other lives and, you know, different parts of our lives.

Absolutely, absolutely.

So we'll do that next week too.

So thanks for listening.

I'm your host Doug Vincent with Addie Rich from the Ugyard professional training Studio.

This has been walk and roll live disability stories.

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