"This and That - Intersectionality" with hosts' Tony Tidbit, Les Frye and

special guest Himalaya Rao-Potlapally- Managing Director The BFM Fund.

Episode Description:

“This AND That: Intersectionality 101”

Many of us have heard the term "intersectionality," but do we truly know what it means?

Coined by legal scholar Dr. Kimberlé Crenshaw in 1989, intersectionality is a term for

understanding how various forms of inequality interlock and play out in peoples' lives.

Originally used to reference the compounded inequalities Black women face, intersectionality

brings awareness to our different inequalities - Black & Female, Black & Gay, Black & Disabled,

etc.

Guest: Himalaya Pao- Potlopaly

a black executive perspective look man they 

didn't get a chance to play chess they had

to play Checker Let's talk about it t openly and 

honestly there was a lot of smart kids there black

executive perspective now my story is not unique 

there's thousands of Professionals of color who

have experiences like mine a black executive 

perspective whether you're aware of it or not

it's a topic that is often avoided we'll discuss 

race and how it plays a factor and how we didn't

even talk about this topic cuz we were afraid 

a black executive perspective in this episode

This and That intersectionality 101 Tony titbit 

and Les fry welcome special guest Himalaya Ralph

po laali managing director the EFM fund many of 

us have heard the term inter intersectionality

but do we truly know what it means poined by legal 

is a term for understanding how various forms of 

inequality interlock and play out in our lives

welcome to a black Executives perspective podcast 

a safe space where we discuss all matters related

to race especially race in Corporate America I'm 

your host Tony tidbit and hi I'm your co-host Les

fry and in this episode we'll be discussing the 

true meaning of intersectionality with our guest

this speaks highly of professional and personal 

experiences of intersectionality throughout her

career yes and we're very excited about it so 

our guest today is Himalaya Ral palpali who is

managing director of blackf Founders matter fund 

and she's going to walk us through and give us a

lot of ideas and thoughts of intersectionality 

prior to being FMF Himalaya got an M MBA and

specialized training in Venture finance 

and worked in seven different firms as the

associate deal lead and eventually fund manager 

she was also adject professor at Portland State

University teaching MBA and msf students about 

Venture investing and helping stand up their

impact Ventures program she also co-launched 

Venture Partners an educational nonprofit in

partnership with Venture lab and mvca Ventures 

forward VC University she has been recognized

as one of the rising stars in Venture Capital 

by NC nvca Venture forward and as a 40 under 40

recipient by the Portland Business Journal she 

was invited by Senator widen to present expert

witness testimony in front of the United States 

Senate finance committee on her work with BAC

Founders Himalaya has a passion for expanding his 

accessibility of Entrepreneurship to BAC and Rural

communities as a pathway for economic development 

and generational wealth building Himalaya welcome

to a black executive perspective podcast thank 

you so much for having me that introduction was

so long and it made me actually feel quite old 

um but thank you so much for having me on this

podcast I'm so excited to talk with both you 

and Les about all the topics that are really

difficult to talk about that is awesome yeah 

you know I was going through I was like wow

she is so accomplished the only thing missing 

in your bio is they gave her land and Tito all

right but I'm pretty sure that's if that hasn't 

happened yet it's going to happen soon so but

welcome to a black executive perspective and 

just to be able to so we can set the stage

with our audience just tell us a little bit little 

background about yourself where you're from your

family uh so hi everyone again my name is Himalaya 

um now currently I am the managing director of the

bfm fund and I'm also the co-executive director of 

a nonprofit that trains diverse people and how to

break into Venture Capital but my background is 

actually very different uh most people that are

in Venture Capital now um who are Associates who 

run funds you know they've uh mostly come up from

Top tier schools and then have filtered into 

Investment Banking or top tier Consulting and

then have made their way through that they're 

also maybe like former operators that have had

exits um usually people that have generational 

wealth or even if they don't have generational

wealth have a lot of wealth in this lifetime um 

and so I think that that sets the tone sometimes

for how policies are created structures are 

created for Venture Capital um and so I see

myself as a little bit of an outlier in that um 

my journey started off as a social worker um and

so that is my my first formal training my first 

Masters was I got a master's in social work and

I was a school social worker in the Bronx um and 

that was where I started my career I also am a

first generation immigrant and uh I think having 

like that immigrant uh journey and perspective

into the United States um and being a woman 

of color and also someone that identifies as

being bipac um has really shaped my reality 

and last I'm excited to talk with you about

what that means um and so you know I think that 

has really really my cultural identity uh the

combination and intersectionality of being both a 

woman and a person of color really really has uh

shaped my reality my upbringing um and then also 

then my first career in social work and working

alongside a lot of black and L and All Families 

being a part of the the community I think that

that really helped me to understand how there can 

be different frames of reality so I'll just like

quickly touch on that because I think sometimes 

people don't understand so I think that you know

being so my parents um being from India I think 

that sometimes um Indian culture is really really

rich and um American culture has its own richness 

to it and oftentimes in my household those were at

odds and oftentimes being a person of color and 

the things that you're taught in your home are

antithesis or anical to the things that you're 

seeing in an American perspective but what I

learned actually from being an immigrant is that 

there was like extreme immigrant pride in like

the country that you came from as well as American 

Pride and so then from an early age I started to

see that like both people are super prideful and 

think that they're super right about something and

so then can two things coexist at the same time 

and be equally like right in some capacity and so

I translated that over to social work and so what 

I mean by that is I actually worked as a school

social worker in Hunts Point which is in the South 

Bronx and so when people talk about it's like the

Bronx of the Bronx right and so it's um an area 

that um has is is deemed from one perspective

high risk so when you think about that on paper 

it's high risk because there's low literacy rates

low graduation rates low socioeconomic status 

that is fact accurate and on the other hand

when you actually are part of that Community when 

you live and work in that area you start to see

that the people of Hunts Point are incredibly 

resilient are have all the fundamentals when

we read Harvard Business reviews like articles 

that come out year after year of like who could

be a successful entrepreneur Capital efficient 

market responsive all of these like qualities

of a successful entrepreneur are seen in Hunts 

Point and that's only only seen if you really

know the community that you're working with right 

and so I think that two realities can be true at

the same time um but oftentimes we're only looking 

at something from one perspective and then making

a judgment on what the trajectory can be based 

on our perspective and so I think I I will say

that as like who I am because that fundamentally 

shapes all of the professional decisions I've made

and certainly shapes the funds trajectory um now 

wow I mean we just you want to start all over I

mean we just got into it you you killing me with 

that already we five minutes in I love it I love

it I love it so listen we're gonna dive deeper 

into that because I have a ton of questions um

real quickly though just based on what you were 

saying you know one of the areas that we struggle

with as human beings is the boxes people put us in 

right and we sometimes try to just live live up to

that box without recognizing all the other things 

that we bring to the table right even in our live

environment that's also outside of that box right 

so we definitely want to dive into that but Les's

has some quick questions because now you're part 

of the family so we you know you gave us a good

background but we're going to dive in a little bit 

deeper just in some of some fun stuff to see what

what what Himalaya likes Les all right so we do 

do like a little ice breaker at the beginning um

I don't want you to think too heavily on this just 

come just say whatever comes to the top of mind we

may you know engage a little bit more about your 

whatever it is that you comment about regarding

some of these little Icebreaker questions but 

the first question that I want to ask you is Le

I hope that none of these things are pop culture 

because I know zero things let's go for okay but

listen what where wherever you are wherever you 

are wherever you are in in your knowledge of pop

culture are not of Pop Culture because you know 

I wouldn't say that I am that I don't I'm not

that a student about pop culture but wherever you 

are just let's talk about it and engage it's not

Jeopardy we good you good you really are all 

right so what was the first concert you ever

went to who was it and how old were you okay this 

will definitely show uh my background so being an

immigrant um I was like deeply entrenched in being 

an immigrant and so what that meant was that my

parents um were really struggling for a lot of 

years uh when we moved here and so I was not um

exposed to a lot of things that most people are 

exposed to as a child um and so I actually didn't

go to my first concert until I was in college um 

I actually didn't even start listening to music I

started like we didn't have access to music music 

we didn't have like a a radio or a television that

had like a cable and so uh when I first started 

listening to music was when uh there would be like

the 17 magazines they'd send like little cassettes 

right so I'd like listen to and it'd be like a a

a one minute one and a half minutes like excerpt 

and it's like you know to try and like Prime you

to buy the CD and that's what I would listen to 

is that like one and a half minutes so in some of

these like pop culture songs I only know left the 

track of the first believe it or not that's all

you really need to know anyway right what was 

it though I'm curious now oh my God they they

sent a few different ones they sent like Shenia 

Twain at some point this was like back in the 90s

right they sent I think they sent a little burtney 

Spears one they also sent a brandy one and so like

you know I just listened to like little tidbits 

but actually in college was the first time that

I went to a concert and it was like you know 

sponsored by the college and I was like oh I'm

so excited to go to a concert you know not really 

even knowing what it was um and so it was actually

a a Drake concert um which is like soent okay 

you hit it off the you hit it like at the ballark

with that one for the first concent the Drake 

experienc it was very exciting and I was like

you know like I don't know I was like imagining 

because like I I don't know again I'm sometimes

the things I say are so immigrant style but like 

in my head I thought it was I had seen movies

of like operas and ballets so I thought we were 

all going to be sitting down and then we get to

the Drake concert you know like very much like the 

music and I was like oh W this is very more lively

than I anticipated like oh we can be free we can 

dance and so it was um quite an immigrant shock

at the ripe age of like 20 years old so yeah you 

said like an opera right so you you hear hear in

the background say kid kill the rapper kill the 

rapper or hotline BL did you have a I hope you

didn't have your heels on either because you know 

I I I did I like fully dressed up because this is

my first concert going experience and I was like 

really ready for it and you know I really do blame

my college friends for not like looking at me and 

like immediately telling me to dress differently

but I had a lot of fun it was such a phenomenal 

experience and I think um it's so great to like

I you know for me it felt like the music was in 

me and that was amazing you know it's like so I

love the Concert Experience awesome all right 

so the next question I want to ask you is what

is I'm gonna switch this up a little bit what 

is your favorite dish like food dish you know

like obviously it has to be something that my 

wife made naturally um but my wife you know

every single thing she makes is brilliant and 

so you know no matter what I pick I'm going to

get in trouble here because she's going to hear 

this podcast um one of the things actually that

I really really love it's like a it's simple right 

it's not like actually super it's not from any of

our cultures but um Natasha my wife um started we 

started making handmade pasta um at home and so

you know like and actually realize like when 

people say like oh vegan pasta it's actually

really easy to make it because there's only two 

inred inred of like the sembling of flour and

the water and to be able to like fully make that 

ourselves like press it roll it laminate it um I

think and then to make the sauce from scratch like 

we you know like grew tomatoes grew the basil did

it all ourselves like even figured out like how to 

like utilize squash as a way to like you know Beef

It Up and so I know that seems simple but for us 

I think like so much of our lives especially for

those of us who have grown up in cities you know 

like so much of our cultural roots from like an

agricultural perspective have been taken away 

from us and so for us it was like actually our

first time kind of like reaching back to like 

make it something from fully scratch and then

being able to like appreciate how like our food 

is made and being able to do that and connect

to Our Roots yeah that's quite an accomplishment 

too because I've actually watched videos of how

people make actual pasta chop it up into pieces 

and stuff like that it's fascinating still I'm

still watching so I haven't gotten to the action 

side yet but I'm still watching and just you know

just so people know too pasta did not come from 

Italy pasta came from China so people need to know

that the Chinese were making pasta you know all 

these things that we now identify as Italian was

actually a Chinese an Asian product yes absolutely 

this last that like Segway so wonderfully into our

conversation because there's so many things in 

entrepreneurship that we like prioritize a white

model of success we prioritize white ideas 

but when we actually look into it all of our

unique cultures within the bipox sphere actually 

create so many origins of Entrepreneurship value

I I couldn't agree with you more I couldn't 

agree with you more all right and so we're

gonna do this last question okay all right 

here we go Bollywood or Hollywood who does it

better I'm gonna say Hollywood would because I 

am a feminist and I while it's gotten different

I genuinely enjoy movies that are not just about 

a love story and about the like development of

a character outside of romantic love I think 

there's so much love that can be found in our

lives that doesn't have to do with that and even 

like love for yourself and love for your journey

and your accomplishments and I think Hollywood 

does a better job of that yeah it is changing a

little bit and Bollywood uh during pride month I 

did show a film that I think it's the first film

of the same seex female same-sex relationship that 

has been produced out of Bollywood this e Kessa a

I think that's that's what it's called yeah very 

good film I highly recommend it by the way okay

Les I'll have to I'll have to follow up the also 

I was gonna tell both of you Tony Les you'll have

to meet up with me and Natasha in person so we 

can show you how to make past because honestly I

feel like and this will be my last uh little like 

soap box on the food is so much of our culture has

actually been taken away from us and now we it's 

been monetized by white society and we have to pay

to access that knowledge when it's actually it 

belongs to us it's part of our heritage and our

culture and so for us it's super important that 

we like connect back to it and we help give other

people access to it absolutely for that I'm down 

where you can count us in right but you just you

just spoke about that so we're going to dive into 

you know the things you talked about at the top

you know even in the warmup and intersectionality 

and all the aspects that go to it so are you ready

jump into it all right let's talk about it let's 

kick us off all right so I just wanted to ask you

a lot of people don't know what the terminology 

bipo means let's talk about that um how this is

a new classifier identify of people's identity 

explain to me what bipac means to you yes um so

Les this is actually a great question and I've 

actually running right a fund that prioritizes

black investment I've had a lot of conversations 

with other black Founders who say like hey why

are you talking about bipo Founders when like the 

focus and like we feel like we're being lumped in

to a group that doesn't represent us and actually 

that is why bipac was creat so before bip it was

just P which is people of color and within that 

when we think about like organizations adopting

pocc diversity standards or wanting to have like 

diversity in their hiring as well as Recruitment

and promotion we were thinking about just pocc 

since that bucket is huge it's literally anyone

that's not white correct then inevitably there's 

a hierarchy there of like than people were like

mostly right like Asian uh people were being 

promoted in different fields and then it was

leaving a lot of different groups out that 

aren't the lowest hanging fruit within Po

and there's a lot of like you know different class 

and socioeconomic issues um and historical context

that make it so that even within the POC space 

there are some groups that need to make sure that

are represented within the broader sphere that's 

actually why bipac was created so bipac means

black indigenous people of color to literally 

call out that black and Indigenous communities

historically economically have not have the same 

treatment in this country or globally as other

people of color and therefore need a separate 

distinction so when you are saying that you

your company policy or your hiring practices 

are addressing bipac standards you are not just

including the PC part but you are also paying 

attention to how you are supporting black and

Indigenous communities I love that explanation 

I really do and that gives you that gives you

an idea of what that means because so many people 

here in America are of a mixed race and we have

been forced by American Standards to identify as 

one and not relate to the other and that's what

makes what you were talking about the richness 

of people of color that's what makes us so rich

by denying or or disregarding the ancestor the 

indigenous ancestor you're basically saying that

that person doesn't exist and then therefore any 

of the gifts that you receive from that any of

the of the the differences any of the things 

that make you such a unique individual you're

actually denying that by not promoting that side 

of yourself so thank you so much for explaining

that for us and and based on that how how broad 

is bipac because you know to be honest I'm just

and and excuse my ignorance you know I'm just 

hearing of it I've probably seen it somewhere

before you know when you hear people talk about 

you know poc's you know they're not saying bipac

and and you're 100% right right um there is a 

hierarchy and it is a checker box well we have

a PC right we have an Asian or we have somebody 

Hispanic you know blah blah blah blah blah right

and so so talk a little bit in terms of you 

know where we are in terms of that the the

the the definition um and how we can we broaden 

it and then more importantly when we when it is

broaden what is the push back that you get when 

you talk bipac yeah great question so in general

I will say I believe that the bipo sphere the 

umbrella is already pretty large because it

still encompasses the same people as p and that 

it's like literally everyone that's not what

correct but now because it has distinctions of 

black indigenous people of color then there can

be more Focus on how there's like two different 

or rather three different groups within the bipo

sphere that need to be incorporated so that you 

can't just focus on the lowest hanging fruit that

being said I will say like I am constantly 

challenging myself to figure out like how I

personally can do better and how like thinking 

about like the the challenges we have and for

me I will say the term bipac helped more companies 

Orient around how are they supporting particularly

black individuals and that was great and what 

I'll talk about venture capital A lot of venture 

capital firms were like okay we want to invest

more in Black Founders we want to hire black 

individuals to work at our funds but the result

of that was that yes like from demographically 

you can say you invested in uh black Founders or

hired black individuals but they were also all 

from Stanford or Harvard so then there's also

like a class link to it right there's a there's 

an established socioeconomic link between access

to higher education and particularly access to IV 

League education from the undergrad or you know

like you know Masters or Beyond there there's 

like a a true established datadriven link and

so when we say like we will invest we will now 

focus on black and Indigenous individuals but

actually you have to meet a certain class standard 

in order to be considered then it still is leaving

out a huge majority of people who identify as 

black and Indigenous who because of historical

wealth gaps policies that were discriminatory 

zoning issues all of these like fundamental

core things that are still happening today then 

you're still leaving out a huge percentage and

I think we always try and figure out a way like 

no matter how much we segment it we're like okay

what's the lowest hanging fruit in each of those 

segments and I think my challenge to myself and

to like others is to like really think about the 

intersectionality between race gender and class

and like if you really are looking at those three 

intersections then I think it will challenge us

to make more holistic decisions Around The Way We 

structure programs the way we hire individuals the

types of people we decide to invest and support in 

and so that's like more so where I'm like focused

on to like even increase um Beyond just B and 

then number one thanks for explaining that so

what what is some of the push back that you get 

because now you're being specific right versus

just Po's which is Broad and you're saying black 

and Indigenous right which for whatever reason

people's back of their hair start curling up 

when you hear those two those two phrases so

what's some of the push back do um you know I 

would say that originally um when I first had

started with the fund and this was back in 2020 

I I will say like well let me back up for a quick

second I think that um when we first moved to 

this country we lived in the Bronx and then at

for some period of my time I lived in Connecticut 

and I was um we were the one of the first or maybe

the first nonwhite family that lived in that town 

so I think growing up I was so used to convincing

people who didn't think like me to think like me 

and so and I think a lot of people who are bipo

have that experience particularly if they move 

away from their community and go towards like

the colleges or jobs that have like a lot of 

white people they're always trying to convince

other people that don't think like them to think 

like that like like essentially have validity of

their ideas right and so I think within that we 

create a trauma-formed response that like marginal

agreement is like success and we feel like elated 

about that like we've somehow like you know helped

to push something forward and I think I felt that 

way growing up I felt that way even when I started

the fund you know I felt like okay I'm like gonna 

convince everyone that like investing in Black

Founders is the thing to do and what I realized 

actually Tony to your point to your question

is people who are fundamentally not seeing why 

investment into black Founders is critical from

not only a societal perspective but an EC economic 

perspective right those are not individuals that I

as one person can convince right I don't have have 

the the ssy cap over them I'm not their family

member I don't have all of that history with 

them to be able to convince them of that their

realities might have shaped their perspective 

in a way that like one person will not be able

to convince them and so actually yes I have 

received pushback but I've also started to like

train myself not to respond to the to the push 

back like if you actually don't think that black

and Indigenous people should be focused on outside 

of PC okay that's your perspective but we're not

like aligned on that we're not aligned on the base 

set of facts and I'm not going to waste my time

trying to like trying to convince you essentially 

that black and Indigenous people matter and that

the starting points of black and Indigenous people 

is vastly different because of the way that we've

structured our society I love that I I love that 

attitude that mindset in terms of you know what

I'm this ain't you know can't beat them join 

them all right it's more of hey this is what

we're going to do this is what I believe if you're 

not there then you know what more power to you I'm

still going to love you but we still G to move 

forward love it love it yeah it's their Journey

because honestly like what is there like to argue 

about when you say black and Indigenous people

need to like we need to have clarification around 

that to ensure that those groups are supported

what push back could you have that isn't rooted 

in racism and white supremacy exactly exactly

let me ask you this in term I'm sorry Les go ahead 

I'm sorry about that I I am curious though I know

that you personally didn't get any push back but 

have you had anybody come to you that is black and

Indigenous or one of the other identify as one 

of the other telling you there's no such thing

as that or you know uh that doesn't exist right uh 

because we we are so conditioned to believe that

we are of one ethnicity even though we are fully 

aware of our mixed Heritage um you know have you

ever gotten any feed any Flack over that I have 

so yes I think that uh I have actually gotten a

lot of push back on it from those that are not 

bipo um I tend to not necessarily um entertain

that um and I think that most folks that are 

in the bipo sphere that have push back are

doing it from a trauma informed place I think that 

sometimes the different ethnic and cultural groups

within the bipo sphere have been hurt right every 

single group within the bipox sphere has been

discriminated and oppressed and sometimes we can 

only focus on our own hurt and pain that we can't

see that other people in the bipo sphere also 

experience pain and so I think that sometimes we

build as a a different trauma informed response 

a lack of empathy and so I think one one I do I

do think just education around like actually bipac 

what came from you know like what I was mentioning

before Les of like a lot of black individuals 

don't even know that the term bipo was made so

that black individuals could be focused on that 

was like number one and a lot of black Founders

are like oh that makes sense right but then two I 

think that their other push back is from a lack of

empathy around like supporting other communities 

so like if it's black uh individuals not seeing

like how other individuals are supported or 

even in the Latino or Asian sphere of being

like well we're working hard so shouldn't we 

also be represented everyone's working hard

everyone's oppressed but that doesn't mean that 

there's not historical um factors that make it so

that different people start out in different ways 

and continue to be received in different ways and

that's the point that's the important point that 

you made there historical oppression historical

oppression you know know people who come from that 

kind of a trauma you know colon colonization and

and such so definitely thanks for making that 

point I'm sorry Tony go ahead no no no no no it

excellent the thing is intersectionality you know 

it's um again three four five years ago I didn't

hear a lot of intersectionality right so tell us 

a little bit how has it evolved how has it you

know changed society and then more importantly you 

know just in your own professional personal life

intersectionality it was actually um something 

that started to gain like popularity in the

mental health space a little like about 10 years 

ago and then has started to come into like the

mainstream media um only less than five years ago 

and so it's actually really critically important

that we understand that because oftentimes so as 

an example I told you that I was a social worker

right and I would be especially when I'm talking 

about bipac issues there's always one person in

the room who's white who says yeah but I was poor 

right I grew up with nothing and now like you know

or like I was a foster child like I didn't even 

have like you know adequate housing or safety or

Security in that way but now look at me I'm in 

college especially when I used to do college uh

like group therapy sessions and I would say okay 

this is exactly where intersectionality comes

into play right being in poverty is definitely 

a disad Advantage being white is a significant

advantage and so when you couple those things 

together because you are white and therefore

and and poverty is just like being queer is can 

be a hidden identity then you have the ability

to utilize the advantages of being white to 

be able to still access your way into moving

up in a capitalistic Society right and the same 

thing is true I think a lot of times with within

the bipo sphere around men is like we are not 

experiencing the world in the same way right

even think about black men and black women are 

not experiencing the world in the same way that's

not to say that either of those groups are not 

experiencing struggles it's saying that there is

an intersectionality that needs to be recognized 

that when you are black and a man being a man has

certain levels of Privileges and being black has 

certain levels of disadvantage in this particular

country right and being a woman has certain levels 

of disadvantages right and and those are different

right in different scenarios particularly when you 

compound the complex identity being black right

when when we talk about like police brutality 

being a black man actually disadvantages you

more than being a black woman but when it comes 

to sexual uh safety being a black woman it is

far less safe to be a black woman than it is 

to be a black man right and that's and also

dependent on age right and dependent on your 

circumstances so a lot of like queer homeless

youth are actually more prone to violence because 

they are homeless and they are young and they are

bip poop right so like there are different like 

levels to this and I think actually from like a

a listener's perspective what I've taken away 

from it is to understand where your where your

intersectionality gives you both the ability and 

to empathize as well as like trying to understand

your own privilege like and and and especially 

when we think about like we can think about gender

privilege when we can think about class privilege 

we can think about race privilege and so this is

something that I especially like to talk about 

within Asian communities right Asian communities

historically have come to this country only 

because they are wealthy in their country right

in in their respective countries and so while 

they are absolutely being discriminated against

in this country you still have historical wealth 

and like the mindset of what that means and access

to education in a prior country and so you're 

coming to this country and still able to access

some opportunities that people in this country 

are not able to access if they're black or Latino

living in poverty go ahead sorry so basically 

what you're speaking to is the model minority

myth that applied here in the United States cor 

correct correct whereas you obviously you know

coming from Southeast Asia you phenotypically 

are brown complexion but yet and still you have

an advantage because the historical um abuse 

that has happened to people of color in this

country does not actually touch you um and we 

have to demystify that because a lot of people

don't know where that word came from I mean it was 

started with Ronald Reagan and he's the one that

initiated that it gave people of Asian Heritage 

um you know know a a leg up in this country mind

you prior to him even making that statement the 

Chinese that were here uh during the the building

of the railroad they were you know subjugated to 

a lot of things just people of color anybody that

comes here that is of a different uh ethnicity or 

if different background but how do we change that

mentality because I believe that sometimes what 

happens is that a lot of my brothers and sisters

that come from Southeast Asia they don't see 

this is they can't understand a lot of my my

African brothers and sisters too can't understand 

why it is necessary to have this space this safe

space for people corre that are bipo correct yeah 

I I think it's a really large complex question um

because I think and I will say like fundamentally 

I think that the solution starts with empathy and

recognizing that even when you share the same 

skin or the same culture that doesn't mean that

you have the exact same experience as someone 

else and being able to recognize that someone

else in your culture in your like like complexion 

has had a different experience and letting that be

valid going back to our first point which is two 

realities can be the same right I can be a black

or a brown person and have one experience and 

someone who looks exactly like me maybe because

of like having an immigrant status or having 

a different socioeconomic class might have

a completely different experience and both of 

those things are valid I think can lead to some

of that solution I think oftentimes too often 

we generalize our own reality on other people

and so too often I hear many people from the black 

indigenous and I I haven't heard it as much in the

Indigenous Community but I will say that across 

the black Latino and Asian communities we are

all guilty of this is individuals in our various 

communities who are successful will then say well

look at me I've been socioeconomically successful 

I've been able to go to a college I've been able

to get a job so it is possible it is possible 

for you that doesn't mean that it is actually

physically possible for someone else because there 

are a whole set of other factors that even if a

person looks exactly like you comes from your same 

culture because of intersectionality they might

have so many other factors that impede them from 

achieving that same goal even if they work just

as hard as you and so I think that's like the 

fundamental takeaway from intersectionality is

to stop generalizing your experience and putting 

that on other people and rather trying to figure

out like and listening to other people like oh 

so you weren't able to access my same level of

wealth or education tell me more about your story 

let's build a road map of all the barriers that

you've had how do we then systemically and like 

collectively as a community start to figure out

how we can remove some of those barriers it 

starts with empathy it starts with listening

to other people because each person's journey is 

going to be unique to their intersectionality oh

my God I mean this is very educational So based 

on that Himalaya how do we you know take this

from being something that just you know from a 

mainstream standpoint started 5 years ago and then

broaden it out where it becomes mainstream I mean 

where would you start I mean it seems like first

you saying you're starting with yourself from 

an empathy standpoint so I guess that would be

the first part but how do we how do we strengthen 

this where the everyday person and May and look

we may not reach everybody but at least more 

individuals will be able to stop and instead

of putting everybody in boxes and saying well you 

did this and I didn't or I did it and you should

be able to do it a zero sum game how can we take 

it to the next level really really great question

I will always say it starts with yourself because 

I think that often too often we look at societal

changes and we're like oh like a government 

or a corporation needs to change their thing

whether it's like around climate change whether 

it's around racism but also like how are you

embodying white supremacy how are you embodying 

the things accelerate climate change right and

like our policies and our you know like you know 

governing corporations only respond to the things

that we as individuals want and you know push up 

and so it it does start for me at the individual

level of ensuring that we are also uh examining 

how each of our practices and philosophies are

aligning or not aligning with what our eventual 

goals are that being said this is why I'm actually

really really passionate about entrepreneurs 

ship because I think that entrepreneurship can

not only be a pathway to economic development but 

it also can be an opportunity to be able to allow

different individuals to showcase the things 

that they are strong in and be able to bring

that into creating economic Agency for themselves 

and their families and their communities without

having all of the same like parameters that a 

normal corporate job would be right because like

if you think about a corporate job first you 

have to have a good primary and grade school

education to be able to access a really great IV 

League education or just a regular great education

you also have to be able to pay for that then 

you have to be able to access a corporate job

then once you access a corporate job you have 

to assimilate to the culture the very white

dominant culture of communication of dressing of 

how you present yourself of how you like you know

engage with your peers how you engage with your 

supervisor there's so many levels Where You Lose

Yourself and also like socioeconomically you may 

not be able to achieve that and for me I feel like

entrepreneurship gives a pathway for many more 

people to actually start where they're at and to

be able to utilize the things they're already good 

at the things that they their culture is already

really good at to be able to help almost reclaim 

some of the things that were lost and to be able

to utilize that to achieve economic independence 

and agency but then also be able to prioritize

the things that their culture is really good 

at the things that they and their family are

really good at and so that for me is like one of 

the biggest things that I'm always talking about

is like there's not a lot of resources going into 

Hunts Point but Hunts Point the individuals there

are so brilliant and so able to do so much with 

so less what if that turned they're already doing

small business ownership they're just not thinking 

they're small business owners because it's all

about the hustle right that's what we do in bipod 

communities right is like especially in like the

in the city like every day I'm hustling hustling 

hustling it's just a hustle right it's just like

I'm gonna go from one hustle to make money to 

make rent and I'm gonna figure out how to make

money the next day I'm gonna figure out and like 

from an outside perspective sometimes that could

look like a little bit of a scam but internally 

I believe it also shows the fundamentals of

Entrepreneurship the fundamentals of business 

ownership you're already really good at knowing

how to run business how to sell how to like do 

all the things to be able to create a profitable

business if that was transformed and honed into 

entrepreneurship think of how many families in

Hunts Point could be super successful and free of 

the need of external resources that are not coming

wow well said very well said right and and listen 

we also live in a capitalist Society we live in a

country that entrepreneurship is encouraged right 

it's it's the backbone in terms of our foundation

so I love what you said and I started crying 

a little bit when you talked about how you you

know you start working in Corporate America and 

you have to assimilate and then you had to you

know I'm sitting here just seeing my life flash 

in front of my eyes all right but all that being

said though this I be honest with you I love your 

passion I love everything that you're doing all

everything that you're bringing to the table let 

me ask you this outside of the entrepreneurship

well I don't say outside the entrepreneurship 

how can we help you take this to the next level

it's a great question I think that um one of the 

things that we do in our fund so we have a main

Venture fund but then we also have two nonprofits 

one is focused on Founder representation one is

focused on funer representation and so the founder 

representation creates a a business on ramp into

many people who don't even like consider being an 

entrepreneur how do you actually take what you're

doing as a side housle and make or main hustle 

if that's like how would explain it to the two

of you that's how I would say it's like like in 

very like short terms is we're taking a bunch of

people who have side hustles making it their main 

hustle so that they can like start to transform

their idea of how entrepreneurship can transform 

their lives and their community and their family's

lives um and so one of the things that would 

be really helpful is um I'm that like nonprofit

and a Founder representation if you are a current 

business owner owner it's really great to be able

to access the knowledge that you've utilized to 

be able to then help other people who are still

in that mindset of like well I kind of need this 

corporate job I don't want to let go of this even

if it's not a corporate job even if it's a minimum 

wage job I I need it I this gives me security and

Entrepreneurship doesn't being able to see one of 

the factors of why entrepreneurship is successful

in some regions is actually being able to see 

models of other people and being able to see it as

like a reality if you can't see it sometimes you 

can't Envision it and so being able to have access

to more people who particularly in the black and 

Indigenous communities who are business owners I'd

love to connect with them I'd love to be able to 

help them help other individuals who are also in

the black and Indigenous communities be able 

to figure out a pathway for entrepreneurship

that works for them the other part is definitely 

an The Venture fund if if either you are wanting

to go into entrepreneurship if you are wanting 

to figure out particularly how to utilize your

dollar to facilitate societal change I would 

love to chat about that because there are so

many different ways and that's not saying 

like our fund is the way our fund is one

of many many ways but especially Tony what you 

were saying we live in a capitalistic Society

but we can utilize our dollars to be able to 

facilitate the changes we want to see and so

for for everyone on a on the varying ends of the 

socioeconomic Spectrum there are things that you

can do monetarily or non-m monetarily to be able 

to facilitate that outcome so that many more of

us tomorrow our small business owner many more 

of us are utilizing our dollars for consumption

of small business owners that are in the bipox 

sphere and we're utilizing our dollars to invest

in many more startup companies that are led by 

bipac individuals that we want to see that is

awesome that is awes count us in we're going to 

get together out after this right and we're going

to sit down we're going to connect our networks 

and we're going to definitely do something because

I totally believe in the entrepreneurship and 

if people can have you know charge of their own

destiny right then to that point it erases a lot 

of the things that you talked about earlier in

terms of lack of opportunities based on you know 

bipac individuals or just people people of color

regardless so number one we want to thank you for 

joining but however I don't know if you know this

or not so I have an alra ego you know Tony tidbit 

so I send out a motivational quote every day

called Tony's tidbits right so today I created one 

based on our talk and I want to get your feedback

and see if this fits what we talked about today 

okay so today's tidbit is by Audrey Lord and it

says there is no such thing as a single issue 

struggle because we do not live single issue

lives that was perfect would you agree with that I 

I would agree with that systemic problems require

systemic Solutions well you know what and you came 

here today and gave us a lot of solutions so we

really appreciate it Himalaya it's been great 

for you to be able to join a black executive

perspective podcast we would love to have you 

come back at some other time right we can talk

about progress we can talk about some other ideas 

I know there's a million questions that Les didn't

get a chance to ask that we want to dive into and 

then look we're going to get together to do the uh

the pasta anyway and we can come back and and I'll 

and more importantly I just won't watch I'll get

involved this time okay you you'll definitely have 

to get involved Tony Natasha and I are formally

inviting you you and L to come over to reclaim 

your roots to eat amazing pasta and we'll continue

this conversation okay great great great so 

everyone Thanks for tuning in to you know a black

Executives perspective about intersectionality 

with our guest Himalaya R po laali she was

awesome stuff to that nature we really enjoyed 

her feedback her passion the whole n yards so

please continue to tune in for season one of a 

black executive perspective podcast you can find

a black Executives perspective podcast wherever 

you get your podcast and visit our website at www

ablack Executives perspective.com or follow us on 

Instagram YouTube and Linkedin okay for my guest

Himalaya my co-host the legendary and it's her 

birthday today so we got to say happy birthday

Les fry happy birthday Les happy birthday Les 

all right thank you I'm Tony tidbit we talked

about it we'll see you next time love you a lot 

we're out thank you for tuning in to this episode

of Tony tidbit a black executive perspective 

and for joining in today's conversation with

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