In this episode of Biz Bites for Thought Leaders, host Anthony Perl facilitates a fascinating panel discussion with mindset coach Jenny Jonte and empathic guide Michelle Howe, exploring how reconnecting with your inner wisdom can transform your leadership approach.

Key Topics Covered:

• Why most people only seek change when facing significant challenges
• The importance of balancing masculine drive with feminine intuition in business
• How to recognise when it's time to let go of control and delegate effectively
• The value of disconnecting from technology to reconnect with yourself
• Why finding the right coach or mentor requires trusting your intuition

About Our Guests:

Jenny Jonte is the founder of Eliminate Impossible, specialising in mindset and prosperity coaching. With a background as a physical therapist for 15 years before transitioning to coaching, Jenny helps entrepreneurs and business owners scale by changing the way they think and reconnecting with their authentic selves.

• Connect with Jenny: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeni-jonte/
• Website: https://eliminate-impossible.com/

Michelle Howe is the founder of Empath Evolution, guiding sensitive high-achievers to embrace their energetic sensitivity as a strength. Based in Syracuse, New York, Michelle helps business professionals who feel overwhelmed by constant doing to find success from the inside out through teaching, speaking, and mentoring.

• Connect with Michelle: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michellejhowe/
• Website: https://www.linkedin.com/company/empath-evolution/

Resources Mentioned:

• The importance of finding alignment rather than balance
• Strategies for disconnecting from technology
• Human Design as a tool for understanding your natural leadership style

Jeni Jonte

Eliminate Impossible

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeni-jonte/

DON'T FORGET...

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Mindset shifts for leaders.

Finding Your Inner Wisdom With Jenny Jonty and Michelle Howe, welcome

to Biz Bites for Thought Leaders.

In today's panel discussion, we introduce two people who have never met before, and

we're gonna explore how mindset shifts can transform your leadership approach.

You'll discover why trusting your inner wisdom is essential

for authentic leadership.

How to balance.

Masculine and feminine energies in business and practical strategies

to reconnect with your true self.

This is a very special episode of Biz Bites for Thought Leaders.

We have two people who bring a lot to the table A, a very interesting

intersection and shared discussion with some great insights and creating all about

creating success from the inside out.

So let's get into this episode.

Well, hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Biz Bites

for Thought Leaders and we're doing another panel show today.

Lucky enough to have Jenny and Michelle joining us.

Welcome both of you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Love that little bit of harmony To start off with, what we should tell

everyone that's listening in today is that, uh, Jenny and Michelle only met

each other a few moments ago, so, and we haven't done any official introductions.

We're gonna do that in a minute, and I think that's part of the fun of

this, is bringing people together.

That don't know each other and having an interesting conversation

that I have no doubt is going to benefit everyone listening in today,

uh, because of their background.

So, firstly, why don't we kick off with you, Michelle, do you wanna

introduce yourself to everyone?

Sure.

My name is Michelle Hower.

I'm from Syracuse, New York.

Um.

I'm a guide.

I'm a mentor.

I'm the founder of Empath Evolution.

Um, what I do is I teach, I speak and I guide.

Um, I really am trying to bring a new level of consciousness around healing,

sensitivity, our roles, so we can just step into something a little bit stronger,

success from the inside out as opposed to the superficiality that really.

Is rather rampant for all of us.

Let's see who we really are.

And it's really an inner journey.

So that's what I help people step into if they, if they like me, like I was a

business professional, I am a business professional, I'm the founder, but

I really wasn't thinking energetic sensitivity at all till I was 40.

So that's.

Where I step in and you know, I'm gonna use my voice.

I do use my voice to help bring awareness of that.

And then slowly but surely certain people will step forward

more into it for the journey.

I, I see it as a wisdom journey, truly.

But yeah, that's what I do.

Lovely.

Love that.

Well, what about you, Jenny?

Yeah, so really aligned actually.

So my name's Jenny Ante and I'm the founder of Eliminate Impossible, and

I am a mindset and prosperity coach.

So I primarily work with entrepreneurs or business owners who are

trying to scale, but really it's.

It was so similar working from the inside out and essentially helping people get

whatever they want to be, do, or have by changing the way that they think.

I love that.

It's, you know, what was really interesting, so I did, uh, a

little bit of quick research beforehand as you do mm-hmm.

When you're coming into these shows.

And what was, uh, interesting to me was there were a couple of quotes.

That were on the top of your website.

So we had one which is, um, uh, trust your wisdom.

And we also had to dream the impossible dream, uh, to reach the

unreachable start, which I love one of my all time favorite songs.

Uh, it's.

It's amazing how, um, you know, bringing two people together who,

you know, to, to a degree was random.

Uh, but how aligned both of you are in many respects, but also

how I think this idea of mindset.

Of needing mentoring for business leaders has, I think, really

come to the fore in recent times.

I think it's going to be needed more and more, wouldn't you say, uh, Jenny?

Oh, absolutely.

I know even for myself when I first started, because I made a career shift,

I went from being a physical therapist for 15 years to, uh, becoming a coach.

And so at first I thought I could just, you know, through sheer will like just

do everything and I, I got this all on my own and just was not making any

headway until I, you know, relented and had my own coach or mentor to help me.

Through the process helped me through my own blocks that I was having and my

mindset and all these places that I didn't even know were there before I jumped in,

and so it helped me to make that leap.

I just know that we all need that individual guidance because we can

read all the books, we can get all this head knowledge, but in order to

actually implement and be able to then see that in our everyday life and see

the change coming from within, we really need somebody guiding us through that.

And I think you hit on an important point there as well.

Uh, we all need a coach.

I think coaches need coaches as well.

I think if you absolutely, if you've got no one acting in that

role, then uh, I, I think that's challenging for people who might want

to come and learn from you because.

You need to know that people are being guided.

It's a bit like, uh, you know, most professionals, I mean

psychologists generally go and see another psychologist to, uh, you

know, to have as a mentor as well.

Um, you know, is that the, is that the same for you, Michelle?

I think it's important for us to grow.

I think we are growing regardless of where we are.

And as far as having my own coach, I've had them formal and non-formal.

They've been part of my, my evolution and I, it is important, but you know, if

you wanna grow, if you wanna move beyond, you know, I, I have to say, looking

around, it's not a given that people really wanna shift or change or they seem

to be a lot of them very accustomed to where they're at until something really.

Intense and then they're like, no, this needs to change.

Mm-hmm.

Until they can't handle it anymore, then, then they'll look, they'll

look for something different.

They'll be open to that.

But by nature, I think a lot of us are quite stubborn.

And we don't really know there's a problem until there's a problem.

Yes.

Oh yes, that is.

Uh, and, and, uh, and that's the thing, isn't it too that you, you

want people to be reacting in advance.

You don't want them to be, um, you know.

In the last moment going, oh my goodness, this is all collapsing.

I need to change.

Anthony (2): Mm-hmm.

You

know, but that's a, that's a shift in people's mindsets, isn't it?

Um, you know, how do you actually start that process of making people

even think about the need to change?

It's a good question.

It's a good question.

It's a great question.

I, I was actually reflecting on this just last week.

I was thinking about that and even in my own journey, like I kind of hit

that sort of rock bottom for myself.

It was just at this point where things were kind of collapsing around me.

I was at just, you know, a, a horrible position and it took.

That's like extreme down in order for me to realize that I needed to make a change.

And that's when I started my own personal journey, even before becoming a coach.

So unfortunately, I think sometimes we do need that knock on the

head and it needs to come a little harder than we would like.

We did the same thing in medicine too.

You know, working as a physical therapist, we would love if we could

do more preventative care, but we're so reactive it feels like as a society.

Yeah.

Michelle, is that the same for you?

Well, I try.

We all try, right?

We go through cycles and sometimes everything is nice and smooth, and then

other times, no, we're getting kicked.

We need to do something different.

So we've.

It starts with us, and that's the thing with every client that I have,

every, every new venture that I do, I'm not just growing a little.

I'm growing a lot.

So it's not like a one way street.

It's just a lot easier when you're the third person or the second person

helping if you've been through it or you've been close to what that is.

If you're at a distance from who that person is, you can see what's

happening a little bit easier than that person that's steeped in that reality.

So, you know, very true.

For me, it's like vibra vibrational embodiment.

Who do I really want to be coaching?

Me?

Somebody that can shift, that I allow to shift, you know, that has

the skills to help me shift that.

I'm gonna listen to, like, it's not a given that I'm gonna listen to

anybody who thinks they're gonna coach me because I've gotten so further

along in my journey that I need somebody that's two steps ahead of me.

In some ways, maybe not way ahead of me, but, and someone that I can relate

with enough that I'm gonna listen to.

So it's not, you know, we're all quite individualistic here.

Who is a good fit for us?

Who is not?

And our perception of what something is or isn't.

So, yeah,

I think you make a good point there.

I think it's how do you actually choose who is the right person

to coach you and, and indeed what sort of coach you might need.

Because clearly you both have slightly different approaches.

But, uh, how does, how does one choose if one's sitting here

enlisting and going, Ooh, how do I

Anthony (2): choose,

literally choosing between the two of you?

But it's, it's like, how do you, how do you actually make the choice.

As to working out for yourself.

What is the right kind of.

Match going to be, what do you actually need?

And Jenny, is there a some key that you have for,

I know I wish there was, but I feel like you have to develop your intuition

and, and be able to feel that alignment.

'cause I know that I've listened to, you know, myself, I listen

to lots of other podcasts.

I listen to other people's trainings and teachings and you can just.

You get a sense, like you were saying, that their vibration, their

energy, like some people are gonna really click and you'll be like,

yes, I, I really resonate with this.

This is.

This sounds like what I need.

This feels like truth to me and like what my soul feels like it needs.

And then you can pursue that direction.

And then there's other people I listen to, like, I appreciate your insight, but I can

tell this is not really aligning with me.

Like this is not a person that I would necessarily want to work with.

I love what they're doing.

I love what they're sharing, but it's just not gonna be the right fit.

So I think you really have to develop that intuition for yourself because.

There are so many people out there, and there's the right person for

everybody, but you've gotta be able to, to kind of weed through it all.

Yeah.

Michelle, I'm, I'm sure that resonates with you because I know empathy is

a big part of, of what you teach.

It's, it's, it's empathy.

It's people that are, we are all feeling things and a lot of ways

we're all empathic, but some of us have a little bit more.

Cognizance awareness depth, that the energies around us, the environments

around us will impact us more.

And it's what we're carrying.

I, I've, I've gone way, way, way deep into the healer, mysticism,

intuitive side of everything.

And for me, it's trusting that things are coming.

You know, it's asking for what you want, but it's also.

Is this vibration, is this person, because, you know, everyone's

steeped in their own reality.

Everyone's steeped in their own mental story of what they think everything is.

Anthony (2): Mm-hmm.

Is this person gonna help me step forward more fully

in the direction that I want?

And it, to me, it's always a feeling and I like alignment.

It's like a key and you know it, it's a yes.

It's a clear yes.

Anthony (2): Mm-hmm.

Whereas when it's a, maybe it's like, hmm.

I'm like, that's kind of a done for

that gut feeling.

Yeah.

You can tell it doesn't feels off, like just doesn't feel right.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

It's not a hundred percent, it's not the key that's gonna turn it, but sometimes,

you know, we might be in that place where we're really looking for something

that's going to fit and it's, the timing is just so that, you know, we tried this

person out, we went in this direction.

Um mm-hmm.

So.

You know, I, I mean, I believe everything is meant to be every,

there's a lesson in everything.

Mm-hmm.

But hopefully you cut your losses quicker rather than later if something

is not the right fit for you.

And, and, and that's an interesting point, 'cause

I've had that myself where

mm-hmm.

When do you make that decision where someone might've

been the right person for you for a period of time, but letting go?

Of that person, uh, can sometimes be a difficult one because you

have built a, a relationship and for whatever reason mm-hmm.

Uh, you feel as though it's, it's changed.

And I had that, you know, recently where it's someone that, uh, I had,

uh, met originally through a course many years ago, then came on and became

my coach, uh, for a number of years.

But we just reached a point where.

We were going in different directions and I realized that, and I, I, you

know, I personally probably ha hung on a little bit too long at that point

before I moved on to someone else.

It is a difficult decision and, and on both sides of the fence, I

imagine, Jenny, I mean, how do you, uh, recognize when something is

been right and then it goes wrong?

Do, do you recognize that as on a coaching side as well?

Yes.

I think that's an area.

I laugh because it's.

Something for, you know, most of my life until just really recently in the last

couple years, I struggled with because I would hold on too long out of like this

fear that I was gonna, you know, hurt the other person in some way or another.

Right?

So I'm like, I'll just keep doing it.

I'll just keep going.

It's gonna be fine and not being true to myself.

Whereas like my body's trying to tell me it's.

Feeling anxious or like, it's just not feeling good, but I'm not listening to it.

Right.

So I think honoring yourself and it's respect for both you and the

other person, because it doesn't have to be done in a, a terrible way.

It's not like, you know, you stop working with that coach and like,

I'm never gonna speak to you again.

You know?

So it's just in this form, our relationship is gonna.

Here, and we're gonna just shift it into something different.

So just finding a way that, again, you have to stay with that alignment.

And if you can get more and more in tune with your body, I think our

bodies really tell us exactly what we should or shouldn't be doing.

But most of the time.

I would always just tell it to be quiet.

I'm like, no, I don't.

I don't think that's right.

I'm not listening to you.

This must be exactly.

I was a little stubborn, so I, I've gotten a lot better at listening to my

body and honoring it and just figuring out what it's trying to tell me to do.

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It's just in this form.

Our relationship is gonna end here and we're gonna just shift

it into something different.

So just finding a way that, again, you have to stay with that alignment and.

If you can get more and more in tune with your body, I think our

bodies really tell us exactly what we should or shouldn't be doing.

But most of the time I would always just tell it to be quiet.

I'm like, no, I don't.

I don't think that's right.

I'm not listening to you.

This must be exactly.

I was a little stubborn, so I, I've gotten a lot better at listening to my

body and honoring it, and just figuring out what it's trying to tell me to do.

It's huge, huge, huge, huge.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And, and it is paying attention to that.

I mean, it's, it's interesting too because as business leaders, you know, there are

times when we have to make a decision, not just around a coach, but around clients.

Sometimes the client doesn't fit.

And you know, as you were saying that Jenny, I, you know, definitely

recollect one or two clients where I knew it was going to end.

Mm. And.

Left the decision to them rather than probably having the mutual conversation,

which is a difficult one to have at times.

Mm-hmm.

You know, fortunately we, you know, left on a very friendly

terms, but it was just it.

The time had been served, we did as much as we could together, and

it was time for them to seek out something else where they wanted to go.

And equally time for me to focus my energy on, on, uh, on different areas as well.

And, and, and, you know, that whole idea of, um.

Sacking a client, um, is, is a challenging one.

I, I, I'll, I'll tell you this, Michelle, when I, uh, that I, I remember, uh,

someone I know telling me many years ago about doing this, and they actually did,

it was kind of, it was like a breakup.

He even described it like that.

He took them person to lunch and, you know, see the whole,

you know, it's not you, it's me, kind of, uh, scenario and, uh.

And the, and you know, in part and parted ways.

So a very interesting, uh, very interesting approach.

Um, and, uh, you know, but it is a difficult thing.

Well, it is, it is multi-layered.

I'm just thinking of one client in particular.

You know, you always start off thinking and, and with goals and, but

then things can get a little blurry.

Exactly.

Where are we going?

Exactly.

What are we working on?

And it gets a little too, um.

Comfortable where you, you lose those boundaries over and that momentum of

where you're going because, you know, in the middle of all this life is happening.

That's some, some of the hardest lessons I've learned is that, you know, you, I've

done different programs and they're like, rushing, you need to go, go, go, go.

And I'm like.

Oh my God.

Are you trying, I'm doing a sprint here.

Mm-hmm.

This is supposed to be something that, you know, and I'm gonna fail

at this sprint because this is just totally disrupting my life.

360 degrees.

Mm-hmm.

So, you know, it's also gauging how much do I have to commit to this?

Some people want, you know.

So much of you when you're working with them, that's too much.

So trying to gauge how does this work with their life and help them continue

that momentum and are they listening and are they a good client and are

they, you know, is this a good match?

You know, are, do they need something else?

Um, yeah.

And those are di difficult conversations, but important conversations as well.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I, I think you make an important point as well that, you know, we

are, we are constantly evolving.

You know, we are, we are learning more ourselves and for lots of reasons we may

shift in our business or in our thinking.

And so, you know, realigning, uh, yeah, with whoever you are

working with is an important.

Thing to be thinking about and doing all the time, because I guess the natural

thing as far as uh, businesses are concerned is to keep thinking about who's

the next person we can bring on board, which means that you are not always

thinking about as much as the people that currently are on board and whether

Anthony (2): all

movement needs that you're no longer aligned.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

The vision.

The vision, how to fit into it.

Excellent, excellent point.

That's a great point.

I mean, tell me, uh, you know, both of you, I'm, I'm intrigued as to how

your businesses have shifted, you know, what's the, what's the journey like?

I starting with you, Jenny.

What's the journey been like since you started this and, and you look

back on some of the people that you may have been working with to where.

The people you want to be working with now, how much has that shifted for you?

A lot.

Uh, because I think in the beginning I just wanted anybody and anybody, right?

I didn't have a lot of a like filtering system to decide who is gonna be the

best aligned so that we can have the best outcomes, we can have the best, you know,

uh, situation, working through everything.

And so definitely took on people that.

Probably shouldn't have, but as, as I've, you know, become.

More aware and understanding more and more of the type of people

that I actually want to work with.

Um, people who, as you mentioned before, are ready and willing to change.

They're excited to grow.

They are want to get to the next level or 10 levels above.

Um, so starting to weed out and kind of filter people who are gonna be a better

fit ahead of time, even before like.

Taking a call or, you know, using any of my time.

So again, just honoring my own time a little bit better throughout

this process as I've come more and more aligned with what it is that

I wanna do and who I wanna serve.

What about you?

For you, Michelle?

It has changed a lot.

And as much as, as much as I, I've always wanted to help everybody who

was empathic and someone actually said to me, and, and they don't

even have to know they're empathic.

Most people, most people don't even know the word.

They don't know what this means, but nailing it down more to that high

achiever, the person who really is aware and wants to move forward and will take

action, well, you know, there's so much.

There's so many different types of people in the world, and I will do best

with that kind of a person because I'm pretty, I'm pretty, I'm pretty much like

that myself, so I'm like, okay, a former version of me who is struggling a bit

with where they're going and who they are.

Who they are, the sensitivity.

What does sensitivity actually mean for them and their life?

How does it, how's it impacting their relationships?

How does it show up?

So it's helping someone evolve to the next best version so they

feel good every day in their skin.

Because a lot of people that are empathic a, they're overwhelmed.

They are giving too much all the time.

And, you know, I can talk to that because that's always

been me and we're doing a lot.

And when you we're in this do, do, do, do environment,

it can be very, very draining.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and then, you know, depending on who you have in your life,

there's another source of drainage.

Right.

So it's, it really is an inner journey.

All of it.

I mean, see, I see everybody evolving, but there are different stages of the game.

And they don't necessarily know there's another layer and

then another layer after that.

But if you are sensitive to energy, you're gonna recognize when something

expands you and makes you feel better.

And when something is really, uh,

Anthony (2): it's

just not, not ideal for you to be in that space.

Mm-hmm.

So, I don't know.

I, I, I, I wish there was a, a definitive like.

This is where everybody's at, but it's, we're all quite individual

when you put us quite individual.

Yeah.

You mean to say some of those pop quizzes we see coming up in our

feeds don't, don't actually work.

They tell us bare bone, superficial stuff, you

know, it's like astrology.

It's like, you know, they're good to a certain degree.

What is it?

The DISC method?

Mm-hmm.

They're good to a certain degree, but at the end of the day.

We need to be leading based on feeling because what's gonna, mm-hmm.

You know, if we don't lead based on that, we're leading based on logic.

And logic can throw us in so many different directions,

it doesn't care how we feel.

It's just gonna be logical.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

So, you know, for me, the way I feel is like amp amplified, threefold.

Like, it's very important.

And if I don't have the right fit, the right rhythm of what I'm doing.

I have to be aware of where I use my energy.

I guess that's the most important part about being an empath, being

empathic, because it's, it's, I, I can totally become deflated,

become defeated, go into burnout.

Do you know what I mean?

All these things that society tells us our success and what we need to do versus

what internally, what do we need to do?

What is next?

So,

yeah, I can see you nodding there as well, Jenny.

That that's, uh, it's, it's so, it's so relatable what, what

Michelle's saying there, isn't it?

It's just, um, you know.

Mm-hmm.

I think we all.

Would probably be, I think everyone listening in is probably nodding

their head to some degree to that.

Yes.

Yeah.

So we do, we, we push, push, push.

So a lot of what I do as well is to try to help bring the, the feminine

energy with the masculine, right?

We can't just have all action, all due, push hard, strive hard.

Work yourself to death because that just doesn't work.

So yes, you have to get the energy alignment and all of those parts

before you take the action and then you actually don't have to do as much action.

It's beautiful.

Well, if, if we could.

And I, I speak from my own ex. If we could just settle into a more

streamlined, relaxed approach instead of like the straight line, this is

where I'm going, this is where I am.

Boom, boom, boom, boom.

Yeah.

I have a lot of male energy in me, but I have a lot of female

too, so females like, stop it.

We're not doing it anymore.

I'm not gonna go along with your show.

No.

Yeah.

A lot of deconditioning that has had Yeah.

Had to happen.

Yeah.

Sure.

Program.

It's, it's interesting you talk about alignment as well because, um, you

know, we've, a lot of people talk about this kind of work-life balance,

and I think balance is the wrong word.

Mm-hmm.

Alignment, uh, with where you need to be at any given point, and, and recognizing

that that's a. Challenge, Jenny.

I mean, it's just, it's, you know, and it's an everyday challenge for,

uh, particularly for people who are, you know, business leaders and, and

they are being pushed to keep, you know, as, as Michelle was saying,

go more, more, more all the time.

More is not always better.

No, it's just more, just more, more to deal with.

But I think if, if we could just simplify the recipe, I guess I'm

speaking to myself, simplify this recipe, Michelle, because you know when you

think, when you are a creative person, entrepreneur, you think big, like you

really wanna make a big, whether it's a lot of money, but in my case, it's.

Let's do some big things.

Yeah.

Let's get this message out there, right?

Or what, you know, solopreneur or small business has to really be

cognizant of the energy that they use to do what, because then all of a

sudden you become a business like me.

I'm like, oh my gosh, I need, I need an operational manager.

Like somebody needs to do their job because all of a

sudden it's all these details.

Of things that I'm more big picture thinker, planner, like messaging.

But I guess it just tells you why you need different kinds of people on your team.

Yeah.

Because otherwise you just won't, won't work very well.

Yeah.

Somebody to delegate the administrative tasks that are not Yeah.

Worth your energy.

Well, you're not gonna, not, there's certain things I'm not na,

naturally good at, but then there's a problem, Anthony, when you're really good

at a lot of things, I'm like, the problem,

well, it's, it's, and, and it's the, and it's the hardest thing, right?

As a, as a business leader.

Is to let go, because sometimes you might be better than the person

that you are hiring at a certain thing, but it's, but you need to

let go of it, and that's, mm-hmm.

That's a challenge.

And it's equally a challenge when you try and bring it back.

I've, I've experienced that in recent times.

I've had someone working with me who has just left, so I've had to.

Res, assume all of those responsibilities in the short term.

Mm. And, um, two days in, it's killing me.

So it's, it's, um, you know, and, and it's not that I can't do it, and it's not

that I'm not good at doing it, it's just that it's, it's incredibly time consuming

and you realize how much it takes you away from what you really love doing.

And I think that's, that's goes back to that alignment, doesn't it, Jenny?

Oh, absolutely.

Yes.

This is something I've so.

Um, I have recently also discovered, I'm starting to dive into, I don't know

if this aligns at all with what you do, Michelle, but with human design

and I, I've come to understand, I am a projector and I am not here to do

the, like, work, work, work, work.

I am here to guide and like, and to delegate and to give all the

little tasks to other people.

And so.

I think even just in our family life and all of the parts I used to really hold

on tight and want to control everything.

And so for me, being able to just release and like you said, focus on

the things that I really love that.

Are aligned with my true self and my goal and my purpose and what I'm

trying to do and give, you know, handoff some of the other things.

But yeah, I was having that thought last week too.

So I was looking at some of the things that I've been delegating.

I'm like, do I like how this.

Mostly

Anthony (2): it's a challenge.

No, the, the team, Anthony, a couple times you're like getting, letting

go, letting go let, it's almost like, yeah, you need to have a master class on

letting go and what does that look like?

Mm-hmm.

And how do you actually do it?

I mean,

I think there's a reason why we hold tight, you know,

because we're used to doing it.

We want it a certain way.

You know, there's that control aspect.

Anthony (2): Mm-hmm.

Um, and, uh.

You know, finding the right people to do certain things would like, would.

Alleviate that issue.

Yeah.

Having that confidence in them.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

I, I wanna come back to that point in a minute, but I just wanted

to, to also ask you both about this kind of, this, this concept that, that

leads to where you were just talking is that a lot of businesses spend a

lot of time teaching people how to do stuff, whether that's internally or

whether it's externally with clients.

And it's like, why are you telling people how to do stuff they want?

They're either coming to you to do the stuff.

Or you're hiring someone to do the stuff.

Mm-hmm.

You don't need to spend a lot of time teaching them how to, and,

and I think we get lost in that a lot of the time, don't we?

That is an intellectual landmine.

You, you wanna give some something to do?

In my last program, she went crazy answering these questions.

I'm like, oh my God.

She's in her head the whole way.

So changing her presentation and.

Do I have to go in there and do surgery on your mind?

You need to stop.

Like, I'm like, this approach isn't really working.

Doesn't very well because she's looking forward to dot every I

and cross every t and it should result in two plus two equals four.

And this is how, no, transformation is a very fluid mm-hmm.

Letting go is even more fluid than that.

It's, it's not, you know, you said holding on tight.

Jenny, which I loved.

I'm like, yeah,

Anthony (2): like,

yes.

It's too tight.

You can tell when you're holding on too tight.

Anthony (2): Mm-hmm.

You just always bring it up, always talk about it.

You're still figuring it out.

So sometimes being like a seeker.

I am, I need to fit.

I've, I've been there and I still can be there.

I need to know why this, yeah.

Like I will spend time and I've learned from this a lot.

So it's kind of part of my process is why is this happening?

What am I learning?

What's the next thing you know?

It's part of going deeper.

And being very empathic, I need to understand sometimes asking questions

aloud has helped me to get answers to things that I feel, but I don't

quite understand what I'm feeling.

Or, you know, here's this human dynamic with a client.

Or they're trying, like learning each step of the way because everybody's

mind is completely different.

Like try to change somebody's mind.

Who's strong-willed?

You can do it.

Like, you can softly, gently try to sculpt something in there if they let

you, but the more strong will they are, the more they hold on really tight.

So, you know, it's that match.

You have to make that match.

And with the right person, then they'll really listen to you.

But if you are, if you don't have the keys to that mind of theirs, they're

not gonna listen to a thing you said.

It's, it's just information.

Right.

As opposed to shifting the way you present the way you feel.

So the emotional stuff, the letting go is really, I can logically say, let

go, but if someone's very fixated and wanting and knowing everything mm-hmm.

They're not going to.

That's true, and that comes back to the guiding, right?

You can only do so much, and in the end, the person has to be

able to do it for themselves.

So they have to be ready and willing to make that change.

Yeah.

Timing, timing, timing.

Yes.

And I can't tell you how long for, you know, like 10 years of doing.

You know, searching personal development and growth and all of the self-help,

everything that I could find.

And like I knew so much on a conscious level and I thought I knew stuff,

but again, it wasn't until I had help understanding how to implement

it into my subconscious mind, how to actually make the internal changes.

Until then, I started to see things reflecting on the outside

of the changes I was making inside.

Before that, it was all very superficial.

It was just in the conscious mind.

Yeah, it's, it is a challenge, isn't it?

Because there's one thing about sitting and listening in whatever

environment you're in and going, yeah, I should do that, and another

thing to actually be able to do it.

And, and it's, and it's not about skills.

It's not about access to resources.

It's about mindset.

Mm-hmm.

It's, it's about my Yes.

Mind.

Having the bandwidth and the space in your life to handle, like, how many things

can you actually handle at one time?

Anthony (2): Mm-hmm.

Change within yourself.

Your focus, say your focus is physical, but then there's bus,

like e, everything seems to.

A certain amount of you, and sometimes in order to achieve a certain goal,

you need to really strap yourself down and focus in on that goal

specifically to get that done.

So you know, your idea and balance per Yes.

Balance is.

A fallacy.

We, we, we do not at any given point in time, have everything in balance

if there is such a thing, right.

It is the balance.

If there was anything, it'd be centered feeling inside of you

that you are grounded in, you're going in the right direction.

If they calmness, you're centered.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

That's balance.

But that at any given point in time, my life is in balance.

No, I did a lot of traveling this year.

Like that threw me off.

Like that was really enjoyable, but it threw everything off the kilter, right?

As far as, so it's, you know, you wanna be able to glide through

life, and I love the fact that.

It's never a done deal.

I have not arrived where everything is in perfect harmony without

something new that I'm learning.

But it would be nice if it was like just completely smooth.

That's my goal, just a completely smooth life.

No hangups.

Yes.

I dunno

if that exists.

There's no, there's always something

else coming up, isn't there?

And that's the, that's reality.

There's, it's, it's out of our control.

Right.

And a personal, and a professional level.

I mean, um, you know, we, we haven't got too much time to touch on this,

but we live in an age where there's, there's so much technology coming in

and that's putting a lot of pressure on.

On change as well, isn't it?

And in many respects, it's pushing people to the middle and that, you know, what

you spoke about at the beginning of, of inactivity and just happy where they are.

And, and suddenly there's more conformity, uh, because of the

technology and things that exist.

So actually the way to stand out is to be more human.

And that's a hard thing to extract, isn't it, Jenny?

I mean, it's like how do you actually rip that out and get

people to put themselves in the fore and really want to be a leader?

Hmm.

That is a, I love that insight.

That is very interesting.

Um, I think you're absolutely right and especially as you know, we see

more and more AI and all of these other things, we are losing that

humanistic quality to what we do.

And I think it can be in so many different levels, like even just.

The posts that you do and like all of these different areas, like

making sure that you are, you're showing yourself as a, a human.

Yeah.

And making those, those connections on a much different level.

And I think that is.

We're almost starving for that at this point.

Like I love that we have this ability to be in all these different places

and connect, you know, doing this, but doing things in person, I think has

such an even bigger impact because that energy, you can feel so much stronger

in my opinion, when you are in the same room as a person or in proximity

to them, and this is a great medium.

I don't think it should completely replace Yeah.

Uh, being able to do things, you know, with actual people

and it won't, it won't, it, it doesn't, it could never Right.

It's just a very convenient way of getting the message out into

the world and getting mm-hmm.

Information.

Sharing information.

I mean, really we're at warp speed right now with the amount of

information that is coming through.

I mean, YouTube, huge amount.

You know, the influencers out there are sharing, which is a positive because

the information's getting through, but it's also like information overload can

be overwhelming.

I'm like.

Um, it is actually a good thing that we are diving deeper into things,

but sometimes I think there's so much drama around everything and it becomes

its own little silo of too much of this, like what I tell you, everybody's brain

and their reality is completely different.

So it, it is a pleasure to like follow certain people.

'cause I get the benefit of their deep dives into certain areas.

Anthony (2): Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I look and I, I think just as we start to wrap things up, I wanted to ask

you both a couple of questions, and the first one being, you know, in this

kind of day and age, as we were just talking about with, with technology

coming to the fore and the need to extract, you know, our human element and

creativity and bring that to the fore, what are some tips that you might have

for people, the way people should be.

Reexamining thinking or doing what?

What can people, uh, you know, what can make people change the way they might be

going about things in this day and age?

What are the shifts in mindset or, or keys to getting themselves into

a position where they recognize that they need to do that?

And I can I throw you in the deep end, Michelle?

Hmm.

So you're talking about the human element, the creativity with all the tech.

Well turn off the tack.

You can turn off the tech right and go and just spend some time

just being, exploring, um, reading.

Like it is just, you don't need to be busy 24 7.

The way that you feel on the inside is more important

than anything on the outside.

Are you being true to yourself, to your, to your potential,

to what you want in life?

Like stop following.

The typical things, and instead, like, see the benefit of just listening quietly.

What do you want?

What is next for you?

Like, it's almost like you're, you're slowing down the pace of your life by

slowing down the way that you speak, the way that you engage, the way your calendar

looks like you're slowing everything down.

Where you can actually notice the space around you.

You don't need this train to go 80 miles an hour.

You wanna be able to see the scenery, right?

So you've gotta slow things down and not, you know, be worried or be

afraid that you're missing something.

And like, it's that, it's that like monkey on your back.

Mm-hmm.

That's like, no, you need to do this.

No.

You like, no you don't.

No, you don't.

A lot of things are just meant to happen or not meant to happen, and they're

gonna happen whether you work, you know, you're gonna probably exhaust

yourself if you're working really hard, thinking all that hard work is gonna

give you this because throughout my 10 years of of having a path evolution,

nothing has ever exactly turned out the way I thought it was going to turn out.

Has always been like, well, I just thought, you know, on a piece of

paper, X plus X equals this, but not, that's not the way it works.

A lot of times if you showcase an imperfect version of yourself and

you have the right team around you, you know your message, your

words, your tone, like people are attracted to you based on who you are.

And it's not the words that you say.

It's how you articulate what you say.

It's all.

It's all of it.

It's not just so you know whether people like it or not.

I do think that we do see the whole person, when we hear

someone talking, we feel them.

So even though, you know, they think they might have everything

put together right, or whatnot.

I think subconsciously we are registering a lot more information when we hear people

speak and whether somebody is a good fit for us or not, you know, or you know.

Whatever their mindset might be that they're not sharing or you know, all

of that manifesting happens consciously and subconsciously all the time.

So you might as well spend some time with yourself.

So turn off, turn off the step.

Turn off

back.

I love that.

Turn off.

That's exactly,

yeah.

I'm gonna come to you in a second, Jenny, but I just wanna

No, you're say, while you, while you were saying all that, Michelle,

I got two images in my head.

Firstly, when you were talking about, you know, stopping and, and looking

at the scenery, I'm not a big train person, but I had this great image

of being on a train where you're either sitting in a tunnel and you,

you are watching the lights go by.

Thinking you're going in a million miles an hour, or you're on a track

where you've got beautiful scenery, that you're looking out the window

and, and enjoying what's around and taking it in rather than just, uh,

worrying about where the destination is.

And at the same time, you were talking about as well, about the different, um.

The different ways that people articulate themselves.

Just popped into my head that famous Seinfeld episode where they talk about,

you know, these pretzels are making me thirsty, and they're, you know, different

ways of, of, of delivering that line.

And it's, and it is like that in everyday life, right?

It's, uh, um, I'm sure, I'm sure that Seinfeld episode wasn't meant

to be philosophical, but it, but it, uh, it kind of stuck in my

head when you were saying that.

Listen, I do think that life is a sitcom.

Truly.

If you sit back and look at how some of your weeks and some of your months

and some of your years go, you get your humor on you, like can see it.

It's very interesting.

Very

well, at least, at least in this particular sitcom we've been running for

the last, uh, last 40 minutes at least.

We've had some real laughs instead of a laugh back, so, uh, so I'm enjoying that.

Jenny, what about you?

What are, what are some tips that you want to get, want to deliver?

Yeah, I was actually gonna say, because even for myself, I

realized when I started doing this work, I really didn't know myself.

I just had been going through life as like a chameleon, just.

Fitting into whatever environment I was in, conforming to what

I was told to do, right?

You go to school, you get your degree, you start your career,

you do that for 40 years.

Like I just, you know, spent my life doing what I was told to do.

So taking time away from all electronics and actually being with yourself and.

In a quiet place where you can connect and understand who you are

because you are not the same as everybody else who's on the internet.

Each person is unique and different.

So I think having that, because then you can protect yourself out

there the way you're meant to.

And then when you go and have actual physical connections with people who

are in your, you know, local area like.

Maybe you could do more in-person sessions or seminars or whatever it might be if

you're a business owner, trying to do that, but also just with your family and

your friends and having that time to be physically in the same space as somebody,

but, and just kind of putting the, maybe taking off your watches and all the

notifications coming in at all times.

You feel like you have to respond immediately and allowing

it to be for a little bit.

Yeah.

Yeah, I know.

I, I particularly come Friday afternoon at least until, uh, late Saturday night,

I have, uh, all my devices off and, uh, I look forward to it and, and I tell

everyone that I'm gonna be offline as well, so that way, you know, I don't come

back to a mountain of emails or messages.

Uh, and, uh, it's amazing how people hold off when you.

Tell them that that's the space that you have to yourself and that

I won't be answering in that time.

Uh, just to wrap things up with both of you and I've, I've

so enjoyed this conversation.

I like to ask, uh, all of my guests on the program this question, what's the,

uh, heart moment that people have when they come to work with you that you wish

more people knew they were going to have?

Uh, in advance.

So, uh, what about you, Jenny?

I'll kick things off with you for starters.

Ooh, I wish there was just one, um, that sounded really cocky.

Sorry.

But I think just understanding the, the power of our thoughts, like the

true power that they have and that we're emitting that power at all times,

whether we are aware of it or not, but.

If I just sum it up.

No, that's, that's great.

What about you, Michelle?

I think it would be, um,

that they have the answer within them already.

Mm-hmm.

It's

Anthony (2): beautiful.

Yeah.

What a, what a terrific way to end it.

I've so enjoyed this conversation and, uh, this is again, one of the, one of

the wonderful powers of the technology and the ability to connect, you know,

three of us who didn't know each other before and have an amazing conversation

that I know everyone listening in is gonna benefit hugely from, uh, we will

of course keep all of the details in the show notes of how to get in touch with.

Both of you.

But, uh, thank you so much for being a part of the program, uh, and as I

said, really enjoyed the conversation.

Thanks, Jenny.

Thanks Michelle.

Awesome.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

And to everyone listening in, of course, uh, as well as the show notes.

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