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2023-06-26. Zuckermuskagon
Episode 5427th June 2023 • Reqless • Aboard
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Rich and Paul discuss the Musks and the Zucherburgs of the world. People have shifted their focus from the thing to themselves. This podcast is sponsored by Aboard.

Transcripts

Paul Ford:

All rich.

Rich Ziade:

Hey Paul, what's, uh, you sound tired.

Paul Ford:

Uh, I don't know how to tell you this.

Rich Ziade:

Uhoh,

Paul Ford:

Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk have agreed to a mixed martial

Paul Ford:

arts fight in the Octagon in Las

Rich Ziade:

No.

Rich Ziade:

Whoa, that sounds cool.

Rich Ziade:

I'm

Paul Ford:

I'm tired of our industry.

Rich Ziade:

Okay,

Rich Ziade:

but uh, when's the fight?

Paul Ford:

I don't know.

Rich Ziade:

Alright,

Paul Ford:

let's talk about

Rich Ziade:

Okay.

Paul Ford:

All right.

Paul Ford:

So look Rich, these absolute two chowder headed gazillionaires Yeah.

Paul Ford:

Have had some sort of beef because you know, Elon Musk

Paul Ford:

is like, Instagram sucks, man.

Paul Ford:

And Mark Zuckerberg is like, I'll take you on, dude.

Paul Ford:

And Zuckerberg apparently has been going, like, doing the full Putin.

Rich Ziade:

he's like a juujitsu

Paul Ford:

Yeah.

Paul Ford:

And he's all jacked, you know, he's,

Rich Ziade:

bet he would meet Beat Musk.

Paul Ford:

I mean, and he's younger and he's stronger.

Paul Ford:

Those are, and he's pretty smart.

Paul Ford:

Those are, you know, gonna work in his favor.

Rich Ziade:

learning Juujitsu, it's very, it's a very, it's a

Rich Ziade:

very powerful set of tools you've got there to disable the opponent.

Paul Ford:

although Elon Musk will show up with, you know,

Rich Ziade:

guns

Paul Ford:

a robot.

Rich Ziade:

Yeah.

Rich Ziade:

Um, okay.

Rich Ziade:

Uh, why does this exhaust you?

Rich Ziade:

It's just two dudes pick.

Rich Ziade:

It's like, uh, Aaron Burr and, uh, Hamilton,

Paul Ford:

Yeah.

Paul Ford:

Okay.

Paul Ford:

Okay.

Paul Ford:

It's like that.

Paul Ford:

Um, it, it's, they would like that comparison.

Paul Ford:

Um, you know what it is?

Paul Ford:

It's just.

Paul Ford:

I really feel that all the fun is gone.

Paul Ford:

Right?

Paul Ford:

Like, because they're, they're having, it's just idiots having stupid beefs.

Paul Ford:

It's bro culture.

Paul Ford:

It's two men who are have.

Paul Ford:

Told us all that they are the shepherds of humanity.

Paul Ford:

Literally, almost in those words, like Zuckerberg sees himself as like a policy

Paul Ford:

setting, almost like a, a Roman emperor.

Paul Ford:

He's really into Caesar Augustus, um, Musk when he bought Twitter said, you know,

Rich Ziade:

I'm, you're not just talking

Paul Ford:

No, I, I love humanity.

Paul Ford:

You know, these are people who, their platforms are so vast

Paul Ford:

and they're like, what's up?

Paul Ford:

You know, you know, who else had a vast platform, Alexander of Macedonia, right?

Paul Ford:

Like, I'm gonna get, you know, that's, I'm one of those, I belong in that And

Paul Ford:

then it's like, but I'm gonna meet you, you know, in, in the, in the octagon.

Rich Ziade:

Yeah.

Rich Ziade:

I mean, look, uh, if you really want to get a sense of the, the disparity

Rich Ziade:

between their own self perception and reality, all you have to do is look

Rich Ziade:

at the fact that it all got reduced down to a pay-per-view event in Vegas.

Paul Ford:

That's where we're at.

Rich Ziade:

right?

Rich Ziade:

It wasn't like, well, we're gonna do this at the World Economic

Rich Ziade:

Forum at the UN because we are.

Rich Ziade:

We affect everything.

Rich Ziade:

Instead, they, they went back to Vegas to fight in a cage.

Paul Ford:

let, let me tell you something here, and I think it's important.

Paul Ford:

They're part of the world, they're part of the internet just increasingly sucks.

Paul Ford:

Social media kind of sucks.

Paul Ford:

We all know it.

Paul Ford:

It keeps sucking worse and we're tired of the suck.

Paul Ford:

Like right now on social media.

Paul Ford:

It's like dead billionaires in a tin can at the bottom of the ocean, this thing.

Paul Ford:

And you know, Elon Musk saying, SIS is a slur, right?

Paul Ford:

This is where we're at.

Paul Ford:

And meanwhile, you know, who's like still got tech going on.

Paul Ford:

. Rich, I'm gonna say a name to you and I want you to tell me who it is, okay?

Paul Ford:

Okay.

Paul Ford:

Here's the thing.

Paul Ford:

These guys, these guys make tech boring and narcissistic about them.

Paul Ford:

I'm gonna name a Zillionaire, super success, who makes tech

Paul Ford:

that's exciting and interesting, even if it's not always relevant.

Rich Ziade:

Okay?

Paul Ford:

Jensen, Huang.

Rich Ziade:

CEO of Nvidia.

Paul Ford:

There you go.

Paul Ford:

Yeah.

Paul Ford:

Have you ever watched any of his videos?

Rich Ziade:

It's just he's caressing a graphics card.

Rich Ziade:

A graphics card.

Rich Ziade:

By the way, that's the size of a small lawnmower.

Rich Ziade:

They're huge.

Rich Ziade:

Now, I couldn't fit the last one I bought.

Paul Ford:

We gotta give it to Nvidia, who make some of the ugliest

Paul Ford:

products physically, like just

Rich Ziade:

oh, oh, oh and

Paul Ford:

deeply.

Paul Ford:

Comically, hideous.

Rich Ziade:

You know what's hilarious about it too?

Rich Ziade:

Their aesthetic, which is essentially large slabs of black metal.

Paul Ford:

Yes.

Paul Ford:

But now, now they have the cooling pipes coming off of

Rich Ziade:

Yeah.

Paul Ford:

like an H.

Paul Ford:

They've miniaturized an HVAC system.

Rich Ziade:

Oh, what's hilarious is it, it also like permeates

Rich Ziade:

into like the driver software.

Rich Ziade:

Like the driver software is like 400 megs, and when it loads up, it just has

Rich Ziade:

this glow to it of like green and black.

Rich Ziade:

It's kind of hilarious.

Paul Ford:

The custom software that now comes with a Windows PC that

Paul Ford:

controls the 3D subsystem is one of the like greatest atrocities.

Paul Ford:

But notice as we're talking about this, did you ever watch the

Paul Ford:

video where he takes the, the, the video card out of the oven?

Rich Ziade:

Yeah.

Rich Ziade:

I love it.

Paul Ford:

And he's like, look at this big

Rich Ziade:

fresh outta the

Paul Ford:

He's wearing like a leather jacket.

Paul Ford:

It is co Here's, here's what I'm saying.

Paul Ford:

Why did I

Rich Ziade:

yeah, why did you go here?

Paul Ford:

Because that's what I'm looking for in my tech industry.

Paul Ford:

I'm looking for goofy, incredibly successful people who care about

Paul Ford:

the thing and, and here, here's what I love about that guy.

Paul Ford:

That guy seems to really believe that more 3D cards, Will make people more powerful.

Paul Ford:

Let 'em do, you know, millions of simultaneous computations a second, and

Paul Ford:

that's gonna be amazing for humanity.

Paul Ford:

Hundreds of millions.

Paul Ford:

And we're gonna have better games and better AI and better

Paul Ford:

experiences as a result.

Paul Ford:

And he is happy to live his life that way.

Paul Ford:

And I look at these two just bros.

Paul Ford:

Who wanna have a battle in the octagon where they're in the

Paul Ford:

middle of the conversation.

Paul Ford:

And I don't get that sense from the, from the Nvidia guy.

Paul Ford:

I get the sense that those goofy GPUs are the center of the world.

Rich Ziade:

I, I think the way I would, I think it's a, it's, I think that's

Rich Ziade:

right and I think it's an even more subtle distinction than that, which

Rich Ziade:

is for Zuckerberg and, and, and Musk.

Rich Ziade:

It, it is.

Rich Ziade:

About them, about their themselves.

Rich Ziade:

It is about their brand and their status.

Rich Ziade:

Um, the Nvidia guy who knows, he may snap one day and make it about him.

Rich Ziade:

It isn't about him at all actually.

Rich Ziade:

It isn't about his personality or about how you crossed the line with him.

Paul Ford:

him.

Paul Ford:

No.

Paul Ford:

It's about how Call of Duty looks on your curved monitor.

Rich Ziade:

about their, the, the, you know, the wild, frankly

Rich Ziade:

incredible success of Nvidia.

Rich Ziade:

Nvidia is a breakout success that has been added for almost

Rich Ziade:

30 years, by the way, it's been, they've been doing this forever.

Rich Ziade:

I remember when they first came out, uh, cuz they were patching

Rich Ziade:

games to make them work with

Paul Ford:

No, and there's like steam coming out of those cards back then.

Paul Ford:

I mean,

Rich Ziade:

back then, the games didn't support 'em.

Rich Ziade:

And so what Nvidia did was they, they sent out engineers to work with

Rich Ziade:

the game developers to say, can you please patch Tomb Raider to do this?

Rich Ziade:

And then it was like the world

Paul Ford:

And you know what they did do too, and this is again,

Paul Ford:

we're back to like this giant conversation happening around Texas.

Paul Ford:

They showed value over and over again.

Paul Ford:

It's not always the value that I care about, but like they went to those

Paul Ford:

game developers and they're like, I can make this thing shinier and better.

Paul Ford:

And then game developers went, it's worth it.

Paul Ford:

Let's do it.

Paul Ford:

Here's

Rich Ziade:

what I think is happening with Musk and Zuckerberg.

Rich Ziade:

I think what's happening is this is, I think they see astronomic success.

Rich Ziade:

There's nothing to buy.

Rich Ziade:

There's nothing really to buy.

Paul Ford:

you.

Paul Ford:

Well, you can go get the world's biggest yacht.

Paul Ford:

Like,

Rich Ziade:

you can do

Paul Ford:

Bezos just did

Rich Ziade:

you can do that, but that's, that's not interesting because

Rich Ziade:

you're mortal and you will die one day.

Rich Ziade:

And so what they start to tell themselves is that, This can't be it.

Rich Ziade:

I can't be, let me be Zuckerberg for a second and I'll get

Rich Ziade:

to Musk in a different way.

Rich Ziade:

If, if I'm Zuckerberg, it can't be that tens of millions of

Rich Ziade:

dollars in Velveeta cheese ads.

Rich Ziade:

Can't be my destiny.

Rich Ziade:

It cannot be it.

Rich Ziade:

It cannot end with double stuff.

Rich Ziade:

Oreos being marketed.

Rich Ziade:

Around the world in different languages as my legacy.

Rich Ziade:

It just can't be it.

Rich Ziade:

And so what they start to say,

Paul Ford:

so, so we're gonna build the metaverse,

Rich Ziade:

I, I think, I think even before that, I think what you

Rich Ziade:

started to see was him shifting his perception of his legacy beyond

Rich Ziade:

double stuff, Oreos, to the point of affecting culture and affecting policy

Paul Ford:

There's a huge, huge not-for-profit.

Paul Ford:

You know, they funded a lot of medical research,

Rich Ziade:

Facebook itself, you know, forget the fact that it spawned, you

Rich Ziade:

know, a lot of misinformation and a lot of ill-advised, you know, revolutions that

Rich Ziade:

frankly netted out negatively in a lot of places cuz it's just, I, he doesn't

Rich Ziade:

have any ability to wrap his head around.

Rich Ziade:

The, the, the sort of fractal possibilities that come off of a

Rich Ziade:

platform that big, he doesn't know.

Rich Ziade:

He had no plan around it.

Rich Ziade:

It got away from him.

Rich Ziade:

And, and what he starts to do is rationalize like, well, you know what?

Rich Ziade:

I probably had a bigger impact on culture in this world than anybody

Rich Ziade:

else in the last 30 Instead of, you know what, no one's bought more.

Rich Ziade:

Um, Fruit Loops ads on my platform than on my platform than anywhere else.

Rich Ziade:

That's not

Paul Ford:

interesting.

Paul Ford:

You know, these, these people never seem to have a good sense of humor.

Paul Ford:

There's no, there's no irony.

Paul Ford:

There's no, like, I'm sure he looks himself, he's like,

Paul Ford:

well, what a wild ride.

Paul Ford:

And that's kind of it.

Paul Ford:

And then it's like, I, I'm gonna go have a

Rich Ziade:

here is, here is, you wanna really go right to the vulnera,

Rich Ziade:

the achilles heel of all of it.

Rich Ziade:

They want to be taken seriously.

Rich Ziade:

That's what it

Paul Ford:

well wait.

Paul Ford:

They wanna be taken seriously in anything they set their mind to

Rich Ziade:

in anything they set their mind to.

Rich Ziade:

Now let's jump to Musk Musk.

Rich Ziade:

Is the Nvidia guy for the longest time,

Paul Ford:

it, he had

Rich Ziade:

and butter.

Rich Ziade:

He's giving internet to, to people in the middle of Africa.

Rich Ziade:

Spaceships, uh, Tesla, I mean, home run after home run.

Rich Ziade:

And I, I do admire Musk for one particular reason, which is he

Rich Ziade:

will tell a small, talented group of people you can do anything.

Paul Ford:

obviously.

Paul Ford:

Right?

Paul Ford:

Like he gets that group around him.

Paul Ford:

He's, let's, and we're going, we're gonna do a conference call every

Paul Ford:

night until the rocket's up in the

Rich Ziade:

I believe in you.

Rich Ziade:

if they come back and say, look, I know you wanted it zero to 60 in

Rich Ziade:

five seconds, we're not there yet.

Rich Ziade:

He's like, what do you need?

Rich Ziade:

And they're like, well, give us another six months and we'll get there.

Rich Ziade:

And he's like, you can have another six months.

Rich Ziade:

And so what he does is he, it is almost, he applied a cult leader belief system

Rich Ziade:

so that, I mean, you can't deny it.

Rich Ziade:

There has been a flurry of innovation that's come out of his companies.

Paul Ford:

a reason he is the richest man in the world.

Paul Ford:

Maybe he doesn't, maybe he should be the 50th, richest man in the world.

Rich Ziade:

not the richest anymore, but

Paul Ford:

whatever, but you know what I mean.

Rich Ziade:

people in the world.

Rich Ziade:

In any case, so what does this guy do?

Rich Ziade:

Let's remember the Zuckerberg narrative I just described.

Rich Ziade:

What does he do?

Rich Ziade:

He decides, wait, that's it.

Rich Ziade:

Large batteries in people's garages,

Paul Ford:

rockets, they go up, they come down.

Rich Ziade:

I'm 52 or whatever his age is,

Paul Ford:

Then he dated Grimes, which took a lot of energy.

Rich Ziade:

That took 10 years off his life.

Paul Ford:

really

Rich Ziade:

right there.

Rich Ziade:

So what does he do?

Rich Ziade:

He buys a box of shit on the internet.

Paul Ford:

He

Paul Ford:

did.

Paul Ford:

He bought the ultimate mystery box.

Rich Ziade:

He bought the ultimate

Paul Ford:

The 44 billion.

Paul Ford:

I wonder what's inside.

Rich Ziade:

sounded negative.

Rich Ziade:

I'm on Twitter.

Rich Ziade:

I continue to be on Twitter.

Rich Ziade:

I can't look away lately.

Rich Ziade:

O off of Twitter.

Rich Ziade:

Twitter is something I've been using for many years.

Rich Ziade:

I've spent money advertising on Twitter.

Rich Ziade:

Twitter is, is, is this incredible?

Rich Ziade:

It's actually not the most valuable asset on the internet, but my God, if

Rich Ziade:

you want cultural and a real platform.

Rich Ziade:

To

Paul Ford:

What the internet became around, let's say 2022, like, you

Paul Ford:

know, but like the, the internet as we understand it today as

Paul Ford:

like a social high velocity, feed driven, conversational medium.

Paul Ford:

Twitter is the, the fundamental infrastructure.

Paul Ford:

Facebook lives in its own giant universe.

Rich Ziade:

It is unheard of for a Mark Zuckerberg, after all his success,

Rich Ziade:

to come to terms with the fact that nobody cares about what he says.

Paul Ford:

Oh, it's gotta

Rich Ziade:

This is pre-Twitter.

Rich Ziade:

Yeah.

Rich Ziade:

The idea that he is not being asked to give a talk about something way outside

Rich Ziade:

his lane at the Aspen Ideas Festival or wherever is absolute torture, and

Rich Ziade:

it's no different than Zuckerberg.

Rich Ziade:

Being repulsed by the idea of being remembered as the guy who pushed macaroni

Rich Ziade:

and cheese ads on people around the world.

Rich Ziade:

It's not enough.

Rich Ziade:

It's just not enough for them.

Paul Ford:

You know?

Paul Ford:

It's gotta be weird

Rich Ziade:

not enough for their

Paul Ford:

You know what it is too?

Paul Ford:

You know, who is the sterling technology leader that everybody looks to?

Paul Ford:

The one he, he rest in peace Exactly.

Paul Ford:

And before him, uh, land at Polaroid, like there's this list and it's a short

Paul Ford:

list of these sort of deeply inspired, super billionaire product geniuses.

Rich Ziade:

but jobs never look, jobs was a jerk.

Rich Ziade:

He was a really mean boss.

Rich Ziade:

That's a fact.

Rich Ziade:

It's like written up, uh, many times over.

Rich Ziade:

But what jobs didn't do is say, ah, you know what?

Rich Ziade:

I put a phone in your pocket and now I'm gonna tell you a

Rich Ziade:

thing or two about diabetes.

Paul Ford:

Well, he actually did that, but he didn't do it in public.

Rich Ziade:

Oh, did He

Paul Ford:

Oh yeah.

Paul Ford:

He was always like, you know, if you just eat more limes, you know,

Rich Ziade:

Well, that didn't work out

Paul Ford:

No, he died as a result.

Paul Ford:

Yeah.

Rich Ziade:

yeah, we don't have to get into his story,

Rich Ziade:

but he had opportunities to be

Paul Ford:

No, no, but he, he was a narcissist, goofball,

Paul Ford:

but it didn't, it seemed to be constrained to a local blast radius

Rich Ziade:

He didn't seek the

Paul Ford:

well, the platform that he wanted.

Paul Ford:

And this I think is what, this is where I like jobs.

Paul Ford:

And I think you do too.

Paul Ford:

And I, I think like ultimately what it came down to, he loved the product.

Paul Ford:

He loved technology.

Paul Ford:

He actually understood where all the bits were.

Paul Ford:

Like he started out really low level.

Paul Ford:

And you know, at places like Atari and hp, he's a salesman.

Paul Ford:

He's just a great salesman.

Paul Ford:

He loved those, um, product releases.

Paul Ford:

Uh,

Rich Ziade:

He loved them and he loved telling a story to get people excited.

Rich Ziade:

He loved connecting emotion.

Rich Ziade:

He wanted you to connect emotionally with his product.

Rich Ziade:

Look,

Paul Ford:

but that's a good salesman.

Rich Ziade:

It is a good salesman.

Rich Ziade:

But here's the thing, dude, it's not about him.

Rich Ziade:

It's just not,

Paul Ford:

No.

Paul Ford:

But Zuckerberg is a terrible salesman.

Rich Ziade:

Zuckerberg.

Rich Ziade:

Zuckerberg is a genius.

Rich Ziade:

Elon Musk is a genius.

Rich Ziade:

Steve Jobs is a

Paul Ford:

genius.

Paul Ford:

Mm-hmm.

Rich Ziade:

Mm-hmm.

Rich Ziade:

Right.

Rich Ziade:

Um, Alan Kay is a genius.

Rich Ziade:

Sure.

Rich Ziade:

But the thing that you have happening, and it's, I would say probably less

Rich Ziade:

so with Zuckerberg than with Musk.

Rich Ziade:

I feel like Zuckerberg has sort of recoiled back into Juujitsu

Rich Ziade:

and his nonprofit in a lot of ways

Paul Ford:

until this moment.

Paul Ford:

It, it actually seemed to be going a little better around him.

Paul Ford:

Like he was, you know, doing his hydrofoiling and having a good life.

Paul Ford:

And then Facebook, Facebook also seems to be causing less genocide than it used to.

Paul Ford:

And I think that's good.

Rich Ziade:

to.

Rich Ziade:

It's probably because they've shifted focus to the headset,

Rich Ziade:

to the, to the VR stuff.

Rich Ziade:

Like I,

Paul Ford:

I think also they, they kind of buttoned it up.

Paul Ford:

I have to imagine that the departure of Sandberg changed.

Paul Ford:

It just seems like a simpler.

Paul Ford:

Platform.

Paul Ford:

Although I would like to say, let me just, let me just go on

Paul Ford:

a brief digression for a minute.

Paul Ford:

I hadn't used Facebook for a while.

Paul Ford:

My father passed.

Paul Ford:

I logged back in.

Paul Ford:

Okay, here it is.

Paul Ford:

It's kind of a mess.

Paul Ford:

Okay.

Paul Ford:

And then I was like, you know what?

Paul Ford:

I'm, in a sense, let's see what a Facebook marketplace looks like.

Paul Ford:

That's the single worst product I've used on a computer in like the last 10

Rich Ziade:

What is Facebook

Paul Ford:

It's supposed to be like Craigslist inside of Facebook.

Paul Ford:

Like you list your stuff that you have for sale and so on and so forth.

Paul Ford:

And you can respond to people, you cannot tell what you're buying, where

Paul Ford:

you're, so if you show like interest into five different things, five different

Paul Ford:

groups, it collages them all together.

Paul Ford:

It starts local, then it goes global, and suddenly you're

Paul Ford:

like, oh, maybe I'll buy that.

Paul Ford:

But it's in

Rich Ziade:

Is it a big deal?

Rich Ziade:

I've never used it.

Rich Ziade:

Is it a big deal?

Rich Ziade:

Because it sounds like a pet project that was sort of bolted

Paul Ford:

I mean, it's facing, it's one of the buttons right there on the bottom.

Paul Ford:

Oh, okay.

Rich Ziade:

So it it is a big

Paul Ford:

deal.

Paul Ford:

Oh no.

Paul Ford:

They were counting on this.

Paul Ford:

They really wanted Facebook marketplace to be a thing.

Paul Ford:

It is the worst product implementation if you work on it.

Paul Ford:

I, I respect you as a human being and I hope you're happy in every way.

Paul Ford:

But what did you do?

Paul Ford:

Why did you do it that way?

Paul Ford:

Come on the show and explain it, because I would like to understand.

Rich Ziade:

when I think about, you know, the Musks and the Zuckerbergs

Rich Ziade:

of the world and, and, other, by the way, extremely successful people

Rich Ziade:

who, because they're successful, think they can chime in on, you know,

Rich Ziade:

neurosurgery, uh, for whatever reason.

Rich Ziade:

I, I think what you, you end up with is, is sort of, and I, I see

Rich Ziade:

this at a lower level when I meet successful people, most are unhappy.

Rich Ziade:

Most of the successful, like really successful, they can't seem to find peace.

Rich Ziade:

They really can't.

Rich Ziade:

And and I think part of that is what got them there is a particular

Rich Ziade:

engine, a particular drive that they don't know how to throttle down.

Rich Ziade:

I'll tell you one counter example of It may snap one day because

Rich Ziade:

he may lose his mind, but Jeff Bezos said, I arrived and I'm at a

Rich Ziade:

resort and they have pina coladas.

Paul Ford:

Jeff Bezo, here's what you look at.

Paul Ford:

It's that divorce.

Paul Ford:

Like the whole thing kind of like cracked for him?

Paul Ford:

And then he got a completely age appropriate really hot girlfriend and a

Paul Ford:

really big boat and went to Coachella.

Rich Ziade:

Yeah.

Rich Ziade:

No, no.

Rich Ziade:

This is his life now.

Rich Ziade:

Look, he may snap and say, wait a minute, I'm Jeff Bezos.

Rich Ziade:

I should be the governor of Texas

Paul Ford:

I don't think, I don't think you got there.

Rich Ziade:

I don't think you got

Paul Ford:

I, I think what you have there is a vast portfolio.

Paul Ford:

I think there'll be like, It'll be sort of like the Bezos Charities will

Paul Ford:

be like the Gates Charities, like these sort of vast bureaucracies.

Rich Ziade:

Yeah.

Rich Ziade:

why

Rich Ziade:

do you think certain people duck away?

Rich Ziade:

I think the ones that are well adjusted and are more comfortable with

Paul Ford:

look, I mean, I know I, I opened his talking about Bezos's divorce,

Paul Ford:

but there's a guy who started this enterprise when he was a little older.

Paul Ford:

I think it was in his thirties.

Paul Ford:

He was married for a long time, had kids, like the marriage

Paul Ford:

seemed to be pretty successful.

Paul Ford:

Like he did keep a thread open to re to like basic human reality and he got to

Paul Ford:

it a little bit after everybody else.

Rich Ziade:

I think, I think that's right and I think, I think people,

Rich Ziade:

this is a loss of perspective more than anything else, right?

Rich Ziade:

I think that's what

Paul Ford:

can you have perspective if you are Mark Zuckerberg?

Paul Ford:

It's not possible.

Paul Ford:

And, and Musk was, man, they primed the pump on that guy.

Rich Ziade:

Did JP Morgan do this?

Paul Ford:

Oh, JP Morgan was weird.

Paul Ford:

He had like a doctor just so he could like get abortions for the girlfriends.

Paul Ford:

Like it was bad.

Paul Ford:

He had, he had a huge bulbus nose.

Paul Ford:

They called him the nose.

Rich Ziade:

Like, like Vanderbilt.

Rich Ziade:

Did he do this?

Rich Ziade:

Are they, did they all lose their minds when they get to this level of

Paul Ford:

Yeah.

Paul Ford:

Yeah.

Rich Ziade:

Hughes kept jars of urine.

Paul Ford:

Yeah.

Paul Ford:

It's, look, it, it's, um, then again, like Julia Louie Dreyfus is a really

Paul Ford:

funny actress who has billions of dollars.

Paul Ford:

Right.

Paul Ford:

So I, I, I don't, I think we, you know, we overthink these people.

Paul Ford:

I'm actually, mostly what I, we, we worry too much about their personal wellbeing.

Paul Ford:

What I wanna get back to Richard, and we're not gonna get back to it

Paul Ford:

on this podcast, but the reason that the Octagon exhausts me, dammit, is

Paul Ford:

that I want to talk about tech again.

Paul Ford:

I wanna talk about the thing.

Paul Ford:

We have a lot of real problems in front of us that aren't

Paul Ford:

gonna be solved by two bros.

Paul Ford:

I was about to say something else.

Paul Ford:

Fighting in the octagon.

Paul Ford:

I miss it.

Paul Ford:

Uh, why won't anybody like, tell me what, how the Apple Watch

Paul Ford:

works in a new and exciting way?

Rich Ziade:

I think, uh, well, I think, look, you, you happen to be

Rich Ziade:

a thoughtful, well-adjusted nerd.

Paul Ford:

Oh, thank you.

Paul Ford:

That's kind of

Rich Ziade:

A lot of people love to see, um, you know, Ben Affleck walk out of the

Rich Ziade:

Dunking Donuts and, people love this shit.

Paul Ford:

I get him, man.

Rich Ziade:

they're public figures and they're, they're, they're offering,

Rich Ziade:

look, if, if, Two, any two actors decided to fight in a ring in Vegas.

Rich Ziade:

It's gonna be good.

Rich Ziade:

It's gonna be really

Paul Ford:

good.

Paul Ford:

It, it's true.

Paul Ford:

That is just, it's, that is made for tv, et cetera, et cetera.

Paul Ford:

I want to go back to a particular era.

Paul Ford:

The era when there were lots of blogs about different Android devices.

Paul Ford:

That's, that was when I think we didn't realize what we had

Rich Ziade:

They're still there.

Paul Ford:

Yeah, there,

Rich Ziade:

a non-tech, there's Android Central, there's Tom's Hardware.

Paul Ford:

Maybe I just need to get back in

Paul Ford:

just dive,

Rich Ziade:

where are you hanging out?

Rich Ziade:

On the internet.

Rich Ziade:

That's what it comes down to.

Rich Ziade:

And this reinforces my point that you're seeing the like the ridiculous

Rich Ziade:

shit and you're like, let's go see what's going on over there.

Paul Ford:

Maybe you're right.

Paul Ford:

Maybe it's time for me to

Rich Ziade:

maybe it's on you.

Paul Ford:

time to dive into Tom's Hardware for a little while and

Paul Ford:

just find out about the new CPUs.

Paul Ford:

Have

Rich Ziade:

you been to an non-tech review?

Paul Ford:

Oh, I love it, man.

Paul Ford:

What I, they still have, do they still have the paginated like 20 sections

Rich Ziade:

It's like 30 pages.

Rich Ziade:

I love

Paul Ford:

I love

Rich Ziade:

This guy is running tests against 20 different benchmarks

Rich Ziade:

and it's about 20,000 words.

Rich Ziade:

It's incredible.

Rich Ziade:

I,

Paul Ford:

I love,

Rich Ziade:

absolutely incredible.

Paul Ford:

they like blur an image in Photoshop and they're

Paul Ford:

like, look, it's, it's 1.7%

Rich Ziade:

It's amazing.

Rich Ziade:

It's amazing.

Rich Ziade:

Um, but you know what's, but it's also boring.

Rich Ziade:

You know what's less boring?

Paul Ford:

Elon Musk fighting.

Paul Ford:

Mark Zuckerberg punched

Rich Ziade:

in the kidney.

Paul Ford:

Yeah.

Paul Ford:

That could be cool.

Paul Ford:

I don't know.

Paul Ford:

Okay, well, we'll close with this.

Paul Ford:

Would you watch it?

Paul Ford:

course.

Paul Ford:

Yeah.

Paul Ford:

I would watch it with two.

Paul Ford:

I mean, you, I'd be,

Rich Ziade:

You thought we were gonna sit here and talk

Rich Ziade:

about how to be better people?

Paul Ford:

no, no.

Paul Ford:

Because I'd watch it with you.

Paul Ford:

I'd pay-per-view it and it would be stupid.

Paul Ford:

And we'd make fun of the

Rich Ziade:

We would order Papa

Paul Ford:

Yeah.

Paul Ford:

Oh, B Buffalo Wild

Rich Ziade:

No,

Rich Ziade:

no.

Rich Ziade:

Papa John's were in the corners because as pizza's round.

Rich Ziade:

Yeah.

Rich Ziade:

And the box is square and Papa John's, somebody in r

Rich Ziade:

and d was like, you know what?

Rich Ziade:

In that area where the round pizza isn't touching the corners of the

Rich Ziade:

square, we can put garlic sauce.

Paul Ford:

That's somebody, that's somebody who quit Amazon Logistics

Paul Ford:

and went over to Papa John's.

Paul Ford:

Is you

Rich Ziade:

Um,

Rich Ziade:

look, is it us or them?

Rich Ziade:

Paul Ford.

Paul Ford:

I guess we're, I guess we all have a little of the

Paul Ford:

schmitz on our hands from this, uh, this ridiculous world we're in.

Paul Ford:

Well, rich, you and I are software entrepreneurs, but we're not burdened

Paul Ford:

by the shocking success that has come

Rich Ziade:

We also don't have egos.

Rich Ziade:

We're well adjusted, loving families.

Paul Ford:

no, definitely ask all of our former employees.

Rich Ziade:

We do have a startup, though, called a board@aboard.com.

Paul Ford:

What a, what a good site.

Paul Ford:

It's, it's coming along, man.

Paul Ford:

I really like where it's at right now.

Rich Ziade:

It looks great.

Rich Ziade:

It's a place to collect, organize, and collaborate from anything on the web.

Rich Ziade:

It's a, it creates calmer, more sane spaces to talk to each other

Rich Ziade:

and share things that you find on

Paul Ford:

the

Paul Ford:

internet.

Paul Ford:

If you want a product that is the opposite of the octagon.

Paul Ford:

In Las Vegas.

Paul Ford:

Yeah, it's a board.

Rich Ziade:

It's a board.

Paul Ford:

So check us out, check out, uh, z

Rich Ziade:

somebody's gonna create a board with UFC

Paul Ford:

Fine.

Paul Ford:

We'll do it.

Paul Ford:

It's fine.

Paul Ford:

Um, check out Zdi Ford on Twitter.

Paul Ford:

Send us an email at hello zdi zdi ford.com and we are all

Paul Ford:

always glad to hear from you.

Paul Ford:

Give us five stars if you're in the mood and we'll see you soon.

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