Shownotes
On today's episode on Veritas Vantage, Supply Chain Leader Brian Hastings dives deep into the journey from being an entry-level sales representative to advancing into mid-level management, focusing on the importance of career paths and the role of intrapreneurs. They discuss insights from the book 'Leading from the Middle' by Scott Mautz, explore the values and challenges associated with mid-level roles, and emphasize the necessity of understanding and motivating team members on a personal level. Highlighting the pivotal role of intrapreneurs within companies, we aim to provide guidance and knowledge to those looking to navigate these career transitions successfully.
The Logistics & Leadership Podcast, powered by Veritas Logistics, redefines logistics and personal growth. Hosted by industry veterans and supply chain leaders Brian Hastings and Justin Maines, it shares their journey from humble beginnings to a $50 million company. Discover invaluable lessons in logistics, mental toughness, and embracing the entrepreneurial spirit. The show delves into personal and professional development, routine, and the power of betting on oneself. From inspiring stories to practical insights, this podcast is a must for aspiring entrepreneurs, logistics professionals, and anyone seeking to push limits and achieve success.
Timestamps:
(00:21) - Overview of Mid-Level Management
(00:38) - Career Path Insights for Entry-Level Sales Reps
(01:23) - The Value of Intrapreneurship
(02:01) - Challenges and Strategies in Mid-Level Management
(05:19) - Building Trust and Adapting Leadership Styles
(08:49) - The Role of Intrapreneurs in Organizations
(12:48) - Conclusion: Setting Goals for Success
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Watch the pod on: YouTube
Transcripts
People want to fit in, people want to be a part of a community.
Speaker A:And I think that the more that we create that within our, within our group or company or any company that's out there, I think that the better intrapreneur that you'll have.
Speaker B:Last week we gave you a 30,000 foot overview of the mid level manager role and the position that everybody loves the hate this episode.
Speaker B:We want to dig a little bit more into the actual path to get to that point and so on and so forth.
Speaker B:Brian, give us some perspective.
Speaker B:What are your thoughts?
Speaker B:Entry level sales rep, fresh out of college.
Speaker B:What's your path look like?
Speaker A:Yeah, so I love it because I think we always hear that from new applicants or people that are in specific roles.
Speaker A:Hell with within our company.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:They want a career path and a lot of times that's more important than a lot of other things.
Speaker A:There is a book that I do recommend for all listeners out there.
Speaker A:It's called Leading from the Middle.
Speaker A:It's by an author, Scott Moutz.
Speaker A:He's a good friend of mine, he wrote a book, he has 25 years of, you know, managing experience at Procter and Gamble.
Speaker A:It's on Amazon or Barnes and Noble, wherever you get your books.
Speaker A:And in that book he does a really good job of defining that career path and how to, you know, when you start out at a company and what you're looking to get to.
Speaker A:Within that book he talks about being an intrapreneur versus an entrepreneur.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And there are so many values to being an intrapreneur, Right.
Speaker A:You don't have to deal with the BS of starting a company or taking over a company or being the one person that everybody points fingers at when stuff goes wrong.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:At the same time you can manage people, you can find a role within your organization that fulfills you.
Speaker A:And especially if you align with the values of the company or the organization, you can, you know, stink and have that position or that role for as long as you want.
Speaker A:And I'll tell you this man, every entrepreneur loves an intrapreneur.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:So yeah, I think that's, you know, you know, we talk about the mid level management, some of the challenges that are out there, but I think there's a lot of advantages to that role.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:So when you talk about career path, I think in our industry, in the logistics brokerage side of it, you know, you start out as an individual sales rep, you do the right things, you operate business in the right way and you build up a book of business, you have success from the Sales side and, you know, making sure that you put yourself in those scenarios, whether that's the next leadership role or asking your manager, what does it take?
Speaker A:How do I get into leadership?
Speaker A:What steps do I need to knock out or accomplish to get into that role?
Speaker A:Do you feel like there's anything on your side?
Speaker A:Are there things that you felt like when you got into a middle, middle manager role that you had to knock out prior to getting the nod or getting your cup of coffee?
Speaker B:No, I think it naturally, naturally happened.
Speaker B:And I was a grunt.
Speaker B:I wasn't polished.
Speaker B:I was very green.
Speaker B:Just more of a go getter.
Speaker B:Like, yeah, put me in the game and let me just rip and run.
Speaker A:Love it.
Speaker B:I think most organizations promote their top reps.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:That's a huge, that's a huge issue sometimes in a lot of sales organizations.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I don't think that always needs to be the approach or the strategy with grooming leaders because sometimes your best reps, whether it's operations, sales account, it doesn't matter to the department.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But sometimes your most result driven reps need to stay in those types of roles or at least be in a role where they can impact others to get them to that point as well.
Speaker B:So my thoughts behind it are put your best coaches and leaders and the ones that do things the right way in the leadership roles.
Speaker B:Who other people are going to follow as opposed to your sales reps, who sometimes, more often than not.
Speaker B:I know I was, I was so selfish early on because my values back then were money, money, money.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:How can I make as much money as possible?
Speaker B:I didn't like, I love my team.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But I was focused on me.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, it's not a bad thing.
Speaker A:Especially when you're, you're trained that way.
Speaker B:Right, Exactly.
Speaker B:But you know, we talked about this already, but a lot of times people like you and I were big producers.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:We are moved into a mid level manager role.
Speaker B:And it's a conflict of interest because we are still concerned, you know, whether we have, you know, matured or our values have changed.
Speaker B:We're still concerned a little bit more about what we want to do and what we value as opposed to grooming and growing a team.
Speaker A:So I think a lot of times like I was, I always use a ton of sports and analogies as you know, but I always look at it like you're putting your leading scorer as the new coach.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Well, maybe, maybe that works, maybe it doesn't.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And I think that's where, you know, some organizations go Wrong.
Speaker A:Where they put that leading score into the coach role and it's like, oh, well, just do it like me.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Well, I don't know if that's the right approach.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:You know, maybe they have.
Speaker A:And like, I think you're really good at this, but figuring out, okay, what, like, leadership style.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:From you can have a specific leadership style, but having the ability to adapt to your team, especially when you're managing salespeople and like, figuring out, like, what makes them tick and how to, you know, push their buttons.
Speaker A:What are some things that you, I don't know, strive to do or try to be when you're that sales manager?
Speaker A:Adapting to a specific rep or person.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:If you don't have your employees trust, it's going to be very difficult to get the best out of them.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:As you're moving up in a company from the entry level employee to the, you know, maybe team lead to a team manager or regional supervisor, whatever it may be.
Speaker B:Regardless of how many people you're managing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:If you're managing people, you have to have their trust.
Speaker B:And the only way you're going to do that is if you get to know them on a personal level.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:If it's not genuine, and I feel like that part is pretty natural for us where we genuinely want to know our people.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:If it's not genuine, people can sniff that out.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:They see right through it also.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But if you're inconsistent too, and the things that you say or do and your actions.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:If they're inconsistent and don't line up with a lot of the things that you say.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You're gonna lose people's trust really quickly.
Speaker B:Main thing, like, take some time to get them know.
Speaker B:Get to know your people on a personal level.
Speaker B:Because if you know them on a personal level, their family, you know, their experiences, their previous roles, you know, significant others, like hobbies.
Speaker B:When you know them on a personal level, you can have a better understanding of what fuels their fire.
Speaker B:How do you get the most out of them?
Speaker B:What's their burn, so to speak.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And from there, you can kind of tailor your management style to get the absolute best out of that person.
Speaker A:I agree, man.
Speaker A:I think it's, you know, understanding when you have a vested interest.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And you actually care.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I think people, that's like, I know it's like somewhat of a buzzword, but, like, if you genuinely care about your people, they will run through a brick wall for you.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And that's where I think a lot of, you know, Mid level managers struggle is they try to blanket coach or they try to blanket manage.
Speaker A:Like, hey, this is my leadership style.
Speaker A:If you don't like it, see you later.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And I just, I don't think, I don't think that works this day and age.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Did it work 20, 30 years ago?
Speaker A:Maybe.
Speaker A:But I think this day and age, I feel like we have to be a little bit more adaptable to the, to the people that we have on our team.
Speaker A:And so I guess I'll spin it back to you, man.
Speaker A:Like, I have a Manager, I have 10 people reporting to me.
Speaker A:So you're telling me that I have to have 10 different styles for every single person?
Speaker B:No, I think if your expectations are set and you have a goal, it doesn't really matter how you get there.
Speaker B:You have to get your team all on the same page striving for the exact same goal.
Speaker B:You just might have to, you know, when it comes to like motivation and getting people on track, you might have to tweak your style a little bit, but be focused on the end result.
Speaker B:Know what motivates each individual.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And how to get the most out of them.
Speaker B:And from there, you know, if you have a clear vision on what your goals are, it makes, makes that path a lot easier.
Speaker A:Totally agree, man.
Speaker A:I think so many people are triggered by different things.
Speaker A:Some people want financial success, some people want the notoriety.
Speaker A:Some people want, hell, a pat on the back.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, I've met so many sales reps, they don't even care about money.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Which is like, it's kind of concerning, but they would rather have a, that a boy or a good job or a pat on the back as opposed to a raise or a new client that might, you know, net them a specific income.
Speaker A:Anybody that's listening today or anybody that's listening to the show, please feel free to drop comments or to ask any questions about the role.
Speaker A:We want to do this to draw awareness and hopefully share some knowledge with anybody within our industry as well as, you know, in other industries that are, that are struggling in that role and they don't really know who to talk to.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:You can't really talk to your team about it.
Speaker A:You can't really go to your executive about it.
Speaker A:You know, hopefully we can shine some light, you know, on those people that are, that are dealing with some of those challenges.
Speaker B:Brian, one thing you said earlier was how much you love entrepreneurs.
Speaker B:I want to bring it back to that because I do think that's important.
Speaker B:We haven't spent enough time on that, what is it about Intranet?
Speaker B:Where are some of the characteristics that, that you love as an entrepreneur?
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, I think we've seen studies over time.
Speaker A:You know, it's biological.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:People want to fit in, people want to be a part of a community.
Speaker A:And I think that the more that we create that within our, within our group or company or any company that's out there, I think that the better Intrapreneur that you'll have.
Speaker A:And I think when you talk about characteristics, it's the people that are, you know, willing to go to bat and they're willing to do all the things that you're asking out of any manager or leader or sales rep.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:They don't necessarily want to start their own company, but they're very happy working within a group that they feel like they're a big part of.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And I think that, you know, that sense of community or that sense of fitting in, that gives them more satisfaction than going out there and starting up their own business or company.
Speaker B:I think that's great.
Speaker B:And it's funny, we talk about entrepreneurs.
Speaker B:I think the entrepreneur role is the most glorified role, especially on Instagram.
Speaker A:Everybody's, everybody's an entrepreneur, man.
Speaker B:I have never seen Intrapreneur on someone's like Instagram description.
Speaker B:It's always, I feel like everyone's an author and entrepreneur but the Intrapreneur, like I have a ton of respect for.
Speaker A:Them because so much, man.
Speaker B:Because they're the biggest blessing for leaders at organizations.
Speaker B:People respect them.
Speaker B:They still are blazing their own trail.
Speaker B:They're natural leaders in an organization who take stuff off their supervisor's plate or leadership's plate and they own it.
Speaker B:You know, they're going to get it done because they have the history of getting it done.
Speaker B:So my brother's actually one.
Speaker B:He's at, my brother Sean's at one of the largest asset based companies in the US and yeah, he has, I have over the years watched him from managing a handful of drivers and he continues to get promoted.
Speaker B:Yeah, he just got another recent promotion.
Speaker A:It's great.
Speaker B:He's a prime example of an entrepreneur and just known him personally.
Speaker B:The guy is an absolute workhorse.
Speaker B:I know for a fact that his bosses love him because they know at the end of the day they don't have to worry about whatever's on his plate because he's going to take care of that and then scoop off some of their plate.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I think you talk about like bringing value, right?
Speaker A:Like bringing value, job security, like when you invest into a company that you feel a part of, I think that, you know, you can build a very, very good career.
Speaker A:Especially, I mean, hell, you always hear like the, some of the stories about people that were seventh or eighth employee at Google or Apple or whatever it is.
Speaker A:I think that there's a ton of value in that.
Speaker A:They weren't the original founder, they weren't, you know, Steve Jobs or Bill Gates, but they created a path for themselves, just like you were saying, where they can bring value to the organization, they can take stuff off their manager's plates and they can own it.
Speaker A:Now they're the owner of a specific software or a coding program.
Speaker A:I don't really know what coding program means, but it's above my head.
Speaker B:One thing you always say, and I love this, be the absolute best in your role or be the absolute best at your role.
Speaker B:A perfect way to summarize an entrepreneur, because if you have everyone being the absolute best at their role, they're becoming irreplaceable for an organization.
Speaker B:100% in my mindset was be as irreplaceable as possible.
Speaker A:100%, man.
Speaker A:I think that's, you know, you want to bring value.
Speaker A:You also want to, you know, as a mid level manager, you want to feel appreciated.
Speaker A:And I think if you get those things, you can build yourself a very good career, a very good life, and especially, you know, if you're caught in the middle, right?
Speaker A:And like I think most mid level managers are probably 30 to 35, 40 years old, maybe a couple kids, a mortgage, couple car payments and they're, they're, you know, not scared, but they're fearful of like jumping ship or creating their own deal.
Speaker A:Well, you can build a very good life managing people, fulfilling, you know, what you want to fulfill and continue to spend time with your kids and spend time with your family.
Speaker B:Setting goals is in direct correlation with someone's health success relationships.
Speaker B:Give me some insight, give our audience some insight on how you can set a goal and then back that down into small attainable steps to increase your likelihood of achieving it.