Show Notes for The Aspiring Psychologist Podcast Episode: 28: Working in the NHS

Thank you for listening to the Aspiring Psychologist Podcast.

Often aspiring psychologists work in the NHS. The NHS funds the Doctorate in Clinical Psychology, and the placements are often NHS placements. Today I talk about my experiences working in the NHS as an Assistant Psychologist, Trainee and qualified Psychologist. I talk about what I loved and what I found hard! I hope you find it helpful!

The Highlights:

• 00:28: Almost at the 8,000 downloads and 6 months anniversary!
• 01:33: Introduction to today's chat
• 02:49: What is advantageous in an NHS role?
• 03:55: The perks of smaller practices VS the NHS
• 05:20: My role as an AP in a Forensic setting
• 08:00: Could you take a break pre-training?
• 10:59: My time as a trainee
• 13:32: Non-NHS placement as a trainee
• 14:59: Break and testimonial
• 16:52: Research and other perks of the NHS
• 19:50: Balance and good people around you!
• 22:53: Once I qualified
• 23:55: What I miss about the NHS
• 26:03: Time for ourselves
• 27:52: Feedback and membership opening on the 1st July!
• 29:14: Thank you!

Links:

Connect socially with Marianne and check out ways to work with her including the upcoming aspiring psychologist collective book and the aspiring psychologist membership on her linktree: www.linktr.ee/drmariannetrent

• To check out The Clinical Psychologist Collective Book: https://amzn.to/3jOplx0 

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If you enjoy the podcast, please do subscribe and rate and review episodes. If you'd like to learn how to record and submit your own audio testimonial to be included in future shows head to: https://www.goodthinkingpsychology.co.uk/podcast and click the blue request info button at the top of the page.

Jingles

Hi, welcome along to the aspiring psychologist podcast. Thank you for listening and thank you. If you have previously listened to other episodes as well, we are nearing our 8,000 download in a little under six months, and it's all thanks to you. My very loyal listeners, or maybe even my brand new listeners who are finding this content really useful, I would love to know what your favorite episode is. And I would love for you to share it on socials and tag me in. You can do that on your stories in Instagram, by tagging in Dr. Maryanne Trent, you can do that on LinkedIn as well, Dr. Maryanne Trent. You can do it on Facebook, tag me in there as good thinking psychological services, or if we're connected on Facebook, you can tag me as Maryanne Trent as well. Tag me in all those places, that would also be wonderful, but tell people why you like the episode and why it resonates with you.

Encourage others to listen to, as it really helps me know that this content is useful and beneficial for you and that you are pleased to be in my world. What am I gonna talk to you about today? Well, today I'm going to talk to you about my experiences of working in the national health service, both as an assistant psychologist, as a trainee psychologist, and then as a qualified psychologist. There is no real plan to this episode. It is gonna be a case of, you know, winding her up and watching her go see where I go. I hope you'll find it useful, because I know for many people who are striving to progress their career in psychology, certainly if you want to get onto clinical training and be funded by the NHS to train, it feels like acquiring some NHS experience prior to commencing your training is gonna be beneficial for you with that.

I would say it's not always necessary. So you know, if you've been in my world a while, you'll know, anyway, that I previously worked at St. Andrews healthcare, and actually there are people I worked with there who got onto professional doctorate courses having only ever worked in St Andrews. Usually under the supervision of a qualified psychologist. So for me, I think it is more about the quality of your supervision and the type of work that you are being asked to do that is psychologically informed and, you know, just absolutely on model for what you'd be doing really in your realm of professional psychology. So, yeah, I don't think it's so much the organization, although of course, the ability to work with MDTs and large teams and, you know, to hold caseloads and work with a variety of clients and professionals too is advantageous.

And that is something that the NHS does afford you. So I did work for local government before I started working for St. Andrews. And, you know, I think working for any large organization that's well established and has lots of policies and procedures and where things don't happen overnight can be really good experience for boosting your own CV and your skills and your talents. Also, for knowing how large organizations work. Similarly, Andrews was a large hospital and it's since expanded to have other locations as well. That is a large organization and they do work differently than smaller ones. My own organization, good thinking psychological services is very small comparatively. And so I can do things in a really adaptive and if needs to be reactive way, in the way that I found to be quite frustrating that you couldn't do in the NHS towards the end of my time there. I can come up with different techniques and approaches and roll with them the same day, if I want to.

You just can't do that in the NHS. And that is frustrating to someone who wants to innovate and can see ways for changing and, you know, for clients to have better experiences, but this is a whole separate debate. So my first experience of working for the NHS was when I was an assistant psychologist and the way that the funding pots worked meant that it was a slightly different employment where I was actually working because it's kind of divvied up. So I was working for what was Milton Kean’s hospital. But I actually wasn't working on the Milton Kean's hospital site. I was working nearby at a youth prison. So at that point, it was quite novel for the healthcare systems to be operated by the NHS, but certainly that one was, and so it was a really nice opportunity to get an NHS funded assistant post, but I was working under the qualified direction of a forensic psychologist, but I was very clear that my job title was an assistant clinical psychologist.

So I was doing clinical work and not stuff necessarily indicated with the young person's index offense but more about their wellbeing and their relationship to trauma as well. Which of course is indicated often with the index offense. Similarly to a previous episode where I've mentioned the wonderful, QC Chris Dos book justice on trial, there's a lot of trauma within justice systems, for both adult and young people. I actually only worked for the NHS for six months. So I started in February and I left in August to go off traveling because I got a place on the doctorate scheme and I just got all foot loose and fancy free and went off and had a really lovely time with another friend who was actually going to be starting her own clinical doctorate course as well.

So yeah, if you are listening to this because you are going to shortly be starting as a trainee psychologist then, is there any possibility that you could have a bit of time off between these important chapters of your life, where you don't necessarily need to be thinking about what this gap looks like on your CV and what you might be missing out on? It's more of a chance of how can you replenish yourself? How can you reward yourself for this time that you've really spent focusing on a really important destination. So, yeah, again, it's in a bit of an aside, isn't it? You never know where I might end up, but if you are gonna be applying for clinical training next year or any type of professional psychology training, if you do learn in spring or summer that you have been successful, then how could you free yourself up to imagine that you might spend some of that time?

You could dream big, you know, you could dream a little round the world trip, obviously this is finances dependent, but also dependent-depending as well. So if you are a parent or you've got people that you care for, that might be, that might feel slightly more aspirational, but, you know, what are the things that you would like to do to help you celebrate that phase in your life? Could you, I dunno, book yourself a few spa treatments or beauty treatments, or go and stay with friends in a different part of the country or go, and, you know, have a couple of days in an Airbnb somewhere nice and by the sea to really just recharge yourself and to celebrate you and your well doneness. But, I feel like this is a whole separate episode that probably needs to be recorded.

Doesn't it? So NHS. So, I worked there for six months and then I went off traveling. Yeah. That's why I got distracted, cuz that sounded more exciting working for the NHS and it was. But yeah, I did take a lot of value from my fellow nursing colleagues and my forensic psychology supervisor. It was quite a small organization to work for. Quite a small base, I should say that I was working for. And that was very different than having worked for a large hospital with many different divisions. So, you know, just having to get used to a little bit more of a smaller way of thinking and operating, you might just have heard that little ping from my emails that meant that I forgot to shut my emails down before I filmed.

So yeah, I'm sorry about that. I will try and edit it out if I can, but it might well just stick around. So,training for me, cuz I was a trainee clinical psychologist was three years of being employed by the NHS at band six. For me going from band four to band six, that was quite a nice pay rise at the time. So working for the NHS meant that you obviously have to be an employee for them and adhere to their trust values and you know, their principles and their protocols and their procedures. You need to be, you know, a good employee. You need to be thinking about and where possible trying to keep your sick leave absence as little as possible because they're gonna be looking at your attendance and you know, the same is true even with when you are a trainee psychologist, if you are being employed that they have to make sure that you are well enough to be in your role and that you are creating good value for the NHS because there's work that you need to be doing, you know, the core work.

So they want you to be seeing clients on placement and ideally helping those clients to move towards their goals, but also helping the service move towards its goals as well. There's a lot of balls to juggle when you are a trainee psychologist. You've gotta juggle the responsibilities for your own line management. So when I was training my line manager was based in a different hospital and we never really crossed paths other than him signing off on my expenses every month for driving about here, there and everywhere and parking costs and things. But yeah, I don't think I ever had to see him for anything else at all during my three years. And I think even during those three years, um, I think the original chap retired and then someone else came along and I don't think I met him in a managerial capacity as well.

But during training you will usually have placements. Certainly if you are doing clinical psychology, you will have placements, but those placements might not all be NHS. You might have a specialist placement for example, that is outside of an NHS service. So you'll have a supervisor who is not an NHS member of staff in that set of circumstances. So certainly all six of my supervisors were NHS supervisors, but of course my course team were not NHS staff. They were academic staff at the university. And so you are juggling a lot of different requests and responsibilities and professional procedures really. That could just take a little bit of kind of figuring out and that can just take a little bit of figuring out really as you adjust to that. So this feels like it's an episode on gearing you up for, you know, professional qualification as well. It is many things to many people at this point. We're just gonna take a short break and I'll be back very soon.

If you looking to become a psychologist and will help you get qualified, come and take, look, it's right here in this book. It's the collective,

The clinical psychologist collective is a fantastic read for aspiring clinical psychologists. This book provides insights from real trainees and qualified psychologists. They offer their advice, hope and encouragement to aspiring clinical psychologists. This book helps to put in perspective the variety of journeys people take to become qualified. I would recommend this book to anyone interested in the dclinpsy.

Okay. So one of the things I liked about working for the NHS was that it was such a big organization and you could usually find someone who knew the answer to your question or who had already tried to do the thing that you were doing. So you could kind of network and liaise with them. Sometimes that could be a little bit of a sticking point because you know, people want to follow what's gone before it, but if there's been a million unnecessary steps that go before it, that can feel a little bit frustrating. There’s plenty of opportunity for carrying out research within the NHS as well, because it's probably highly likely that your trust has a research department or research lead. And so with your line management or supervisory approval, you can often make contact with them to see if there's any research that you might be able to help support with.

And of course, because it would be a trust initiative, you might well be able to get that sorted out within your work time. So you'd be getting paid to do research or thinking about whether you could bring research to your service and be paid for it. So, what is not to like there? One of the other things that I think makes it really nice about working for the NHS is that in my experience people were largely working nine to five, which meant that there would usually be some sort of opportunity for sitting down with your colleagues and having lunch. Now I was a big believer and still am a big believer in having lunch. I put it in my diary every day and always have done, because certainly in the NHS you don't get paid for that time.

Um, but you do have to take it. And so I took it because, um, because it was good for me and because I need to eat, you know, I'm not the sort of person can that can, you know, work on past a harm, hungry grumbling, stomach, eye productivity, plummets quite rapidly, if I'm hungry and my patience certainly dissipates too, if I'm a bit hungry. So, um, I always made time for lunch, but I had a very good impact on my colleagues as well, because they would often try and come and join me for lunch. Um, and when I was in, uh, you know, when I was in a, a local service with some local shops, we'd instigate, um, you know, chippy lunch every now and then as well. And that was very popular. Um, but yeah, trying not to eat at your desk is key.

Try and make sure that you do have a break because this is difficult work that you are doing as an aspiring psychologist. And so having some time to be mindful about something that is non-work focused, non-work related will really help you to decompress and to come through these difficult times. I had a lovely time connecting with, you know, nursing colleagues and one of my absolute favorite things about working for the NHS is the people you meet along the way. And I was talking to one of my friend's moms just yesterday and talking about the wonderful people that you do meet in mental health, but also physical health because you're meeting people who are fellow nurturers and they really can help shape you and look after you and look out for you.

And I know that my friend and ex colleague now, Jane wouldn't mind me name checking her, but I was really pleased to have met her along my journey, when I was a qualified member of staff, but you can never meet enough good people who warm your soul and who get you. And, you know, that's one of my favorite things about working in this industry of ours is the people that you meet along the way, and those that you choose to keep along the way as well. You know, you can snap them off from whatever job that you are working in and, you know, mentally take them with you sometimes even physically take them with you, but you can still keep them in your world. Either by getting together in person or connecting, you know, virtually via email or socials as well.

And yeah, I've just had some wonderfully nurturing supervisors along the way as well. And I most definitely kept most of those in my life too. So, those are my top tips for surviving the NHS, which sounds a bit bleak. I know, but, you know, make sure you're taking time for yourself and really seek to make connections with the people around you, especially those that make you feel good. I always, when joining a team would shadow other members of the team, and when people joined the team I would have them shadow me even if they weren't working in psychology. I know that even recently an occupational therapist I'd previously worked with had said that she still found that session that she did with me incredibly fascinating, and that she thought about it really often. So you never know what impact you might have from the people that you work with.

I did work in the NHS once I qualified, I worked in a children and adolescent mental health service for almost four years. I had a baby during that time as well. I got married during that time. Then I continued to work for the NHS and I had another baby in my second qualified role in adult mental health. So yeah, I did make the decision to leave the NHS. But that was only after I'd tried to negotiate, dropping down, to less days so that I could focus more on private work, but we couldn't make that work. It wasn't agreed. And over time I just thought, you know, what I think I might want to leave, which felt really challenging. It felt really scary, but also felt really exciting. I'd already been working in a private capacity for a little while.

By the time I went PRI by the time I went fully fledged private. So I think it was probably getting on for about 18 months by the time I left. And so I knew I could potentially make it work and I haven't looked back, but that said, I do miss working with my team and I miss probably the more informal chances that you have to get together with people. I don't miss meetings, but I probably miss the beginning and the ends of meetings where they were just warming up and checking in with each other and just making sure that everyone's okay and a little bit of water cooler chat and humor and, you know, all of that. What did you watch on TV last night?

Or did you see Britain's got talent? Yes, I did. You know, that's all part of being a team as well. And I know that when my children were homeschooled during the pandemic, I was, you know, quite surprised how little work they were doing. I'd imagined perhaps naively that when my children were at school, that they were doing six hours of education, apart from their lunch break and their play breaks, but it really wasn't, it was very much more low key than that. You know, there's probably only about two solid hours of work. Maybe even if that the rest is, I dunno, I guess consolidation and, you know, discussion. But actual focused work was very different than my own experiences of being at school. I think when we look at the way that people are working, not to quote Boris and the cheese but the actual hard work that we're doing on any given day when we look at that in hours is, it's a little bit different with us because if we're doing client sessions, then of course you've got those client hours, but you've also got the admin that goes with that.

But if you are in an admin role, it might be that you're not working solidly seven and a half hours because there's kind of time built in your day for flex, to be able to spend time with colleagues and to be able to make cups of tea and things. And I'm not disparaging in any way, the way that you are working, but it's, I couldn't say hand on hand that I work around the clock and I've created my business to work in the way that I want it to, so that I have now got time to be able to go and do my personal training sessions in my work time. Because I recognize that it's so much more likely to happen if I do that.

Whereas if I leave it to the evenings or the weekends, it just ain't gonna happen. I think within large organizations like the NHS they've obviously got standards to meet, they've got targets to meet, and you will, but probably as an aspiring psychologist, find yourself having to be accountable to those standards and those targets. But there's not usually an expectation that you'll be working with your nose to the grindstone for seven and a half hours a day. But that said, I know that many people who are certainly aspiring clinical psychologists are finding that the expectations of them for their face to face work are great and that does lead to burnout. Maybe there needs to be a bit more flex for human time and human connection time.

So I would love to know what you think to anything that I've spoken about today. I would love to know what your favorite episode of this aspiring psychologist podcast is. We have got the next batch of applicants in the aspiring psychologist membership coming up opening on the 1st of July. So if you like to be on the waiting list ready for when that opens ready for us to guide you through this next application season, then do check out the details in the show notes. Come on over and like, and subscribe to the good thinking, psychological services, YouTube channel, because you know, good stuff happens on there and you can also listen to the podcast episodes there too. Have I got anything else to tell you? Still check out information either to buy the aspiring psychologist collective book when it comes out, hopefully in October or if you have got interesting stories to tell, we are still accepting submissions and details of how you can make your submission are included in the show notes.

Right? Thank you so very much for being part of my world and for listening. And don't forget that if you've got any questions for me for this special ask Maryanne, anything session, um, that is coming up from the podcast, then you can record your question, surprise by following the details in the show notes. I'm gonna finish off with the ask Mariana, anything jingle and then you will be able to listen to the podcast jingle. I will look forward to catching up with you very soon, take care and stay kind to you. Bye!

Jingles

If you are looking to a psychologist, then let this be with this podcast to your way, to with Dr. Mary.